Realignment talk not going away

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

6 hours ago, camel at sea said:

The Big 12 on CBS is a win-win for both sides.  CBS gets a good product that they don't have to pay a ton for, and a partner that will be flexible about CBS's other TV obligations.  CBS would also get a bigger share of arguably the best CBB conference in the country - which would be a good lead in for the  March  Madness tourney they host on their network.  The Big 12 gets a ton of positive exposure and promotion. 

Agree, giving up cash for exposure is where the Big 12 needs to be to build up new brands and remain viable in playoff conversations.   No one markets a game better than CBS and they've been sucking the SEC's dick for two decades.   Hasn't hurt them.

[camel at sea 589]

6 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

If that happens the new Big 12 will get a massive win.   I still see that going to the Big Ten.

CBS lost the SEC because they weren't willing to pay market value.  I'm not sure that they won't run into the same issue with the Big 10 which doesn't really *need* the exposure, either, unlike the Big 12.  

Personally I'd like to see CBS in Stillwater, Provo, Morgantown, etc.  I think it'd be good for college football to keep positive momentum for those programs.  

[statsman 5,468]

I really think the B12, going forward, isn’t as attractive as many of you think. There are a lot of Texas fans that watch other B12 games, because they play into UT’s fortunes. Now, they won’t. We’ll be watching Arkansas and LSU play, rather than TT and OSU. 

[Texas Wahoo 3,395]

7 hours ago, camel at sea said:

The Big 12 on CBS is a win-win for both sides.  CBS gets a good product that they don't have to pay a ton for, and a partner that will be flexible about CBS's other TV obligations.  CBS would also get a bigger share of arguably the best CBB conference in the country - which would be a good lead in for the  March  Madness tourney they host on their network.  The Big 12 gets a ton of positive exposure and promotion. 

I wonder if the Big 12 would be willing to sign a bigger deal with CBS that has the weekly CBS game as well as several CBS Sports Network games.  If so, I could definitely see CBS agreeing to that in order to bolster that network.

[closetohumping 17,442]

26 minutes ago, statsman said:

I really think the B12, going forward, isn’t as attractive as many of you think. There are a lot of Texas fans that watch other B12 games, because they play into UT’s fortunes. Now, they won’t. We’ll be watching Arkansas and LSU play, rather than TT and OSU. 

They have quantity.  Not sure they have the quality.  Name one team from the big 12 you would openly root against if they play an average opponent?  Even the acc has about three or four schools I would openly root against

 

ok I root against baylor but nobody else in the big 12

Edited July 18, 2022 by closetohumping

[TKthunder2 4,991]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

I really think the B12, going forward, isn’t as attractive as many of you think. There are a lot of Texas fans that watch other B12 games, because they play into UT’s fortunes. Now, they won’t. We’ll be watching Arkansas and LSU play, rather than TT and OSU. 

I agree, CBS wants games that will routinely draw national attention. The SEC, B1G, and ND would drive that, the Big 12 might stumble into a good ranked v ranked matchup once or twice a month but what is the best game each year that people consistently want to see?  Oklahoma St v West Virginia, Baylor v TCU, Iowa St v K State?

I don’t see CBS holding a permanent spot for the Big 12 game of the week, but if they did it’s because the Big12 gives them a hell of a deal in exchange for the guaranteed exposure.  But that means they’ll be going up against the SEC game of the week and likely a lesser B1G game with a blueblood vs a weaker conference opponent on FOX (assuming FOX uses its best content for Big Noon and prime time) so even with that national broadcast I’m not sure how successful they’ll be when they are opposite Bama v OU on ABC and Michigan v Illinois on FOX.

[kopp0e 1,135]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:39 PM, Sbbruin said:

How stuck are the current PAC and Big 12 to their current makeup.  Seems to me the recent additions to the Big 12 no longer make sense, not all of them.  Seems like you could create a decent conference with the best of each conference.  Although you still lack real solid media markets outside of Dallas and Seattle.  The Bay Area doesn’t watch Cal/Stanford,

To me it would seem a good idea to place the best brands in 1 league…

Washington

Oregon

California

Stanford

*San Diego State

*UNLV

Arizona

Arizona State

Utah

Colorado

Iowa State

Kansas

Oklahoma State

Texas Tech

TCU

*Houston

In doing so it leaves room to regain part of Los Angeles tv market eh..?

[kopp0e 1,135]

On 7/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Sabalo said:

what happened to @kopp0e? He kept this thread alive for a decade and I haven't seen a post from him since the USC, UCLA news?

 

I still post mostly on the Sooner site… I’m fine since OU & UT are staying linked…

USC & UCLA made the wisest choice available at the disposal as OU/ UT  bolts…

I do have to admit I worry about Arizona State long term as PAC may be ‘shaky’…

B1G-

Miami

Georgia Tech

Duke

Virginia 

Notre Dame

Maryland

Rutgers

Penn State

Ohio State

Michigan

Michigan State

Indiana

Purdue

Illinois

Northwestern

Wisconsin

Minnesota

Iowa 

Nebraska

USC

UCLA

Stanford

Oregon

Washington

 

SEC-

Virginia Tech

North Carolina

Clemson

Florida State

Florida

Georgia

South Carolina

Kentucky

Tennessee

Vanderbilt

Alabama

Auburn

Ole Miss

Mississippi State

LSU

Texas

Texas A&M

Oklahoma

Arkansas

Missouri

Kansas

Colorado

Arizona

Arizona State

That’s the list I’ve been selling long term for both SEC & B1G (for 2036ish or so)…

[statsman 5,468]

12 hours ago, statsman said:

I really think the B12, going forward, isn’t as attractive as many of you think. There are a lot of Texas fans that watch other B12 games, because they play into UT’s fortunes. Now, they won’t. We’ll be watching Arkansas and LSU play, rather than TT and OSU. 

Example- last year, the BU/ISU game had good viewership- 2 million. That game was at 3:30, on Fox. Texas hosted TT at noon on ABC and OU hosted WVU at 7:00, on ABC. Arkansas hosted the Ags as 3:30 competition that day, on CBS.
With Texas and OU in the SEC, how many of their fans will be watching the B12 matchup that leads into or follows “their” game? Wo t they switch to the SEC game adjacent to theirs? 

[closetohumping 17,442]

30 minutes ago, statsman said:

Example- last year, the BU/ISU game had good viewership- 2 million. That game was at 3:30, on Fox. Texas hosted TT at noon on ABC and OU hosted WVU at 7:00, on ABC. Arkansas hosted the Ags as 3:30 competition that day, on CBS.
With Texas and OU in the SEC, how many of their fans will be watching the B12 matchup that leads into or follows “their” game? Wo t they switch to the SEC game adjacent to theirs? 

Other than Baylor, and let's be real, only we truly hate them, there's no real polarizing school in the Big 12.  Whereas, even the ACC, if FSU, Miami or Clemson are playing, I'm likely watching and I have a rooting interest.  With the PAC, I did root against USC and do root against Oregon.  I root for UW for personal reasons.  Everyone else?  Eh. 

[6th Street 6,397]

More importantly, nobody outside of those handful of flyover states will give a shit about random Big XII matchups. 

[66BUFF 2,562]

14 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Other than Baylor, and let's be real, only we truly hate them, there's no real polarizing school in the Big 12.  Whereas, even the ACC, if FSU, Miami or Clemson are playing, I'm likely watching and I have a rooting interest.  With the PAC, I did root against USC and do root against Oregon.  I root for UW for personal reasons.  Everyone else?  Eh. 

CU fans also hate baylor

[thunderlounge 7,831]

I guess penn st doesn’t think they’re so bad.

 

 

[Trey3216 15,346]

21 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

CU fans also hate baylor

Was it the “Big XII rejects” chant during the NCAA tourney?? 

[Texzilla58 4,735]

I agree, CBS wants games that will routinely draw national attention. The SEC, B1G, and ND would drive that, the Big 12 might stumble into a good ranked v ranked matchup once or twice a month but what is the best game each year that people consistently want to see?  Oklahoma St v West Virginia, Baylor v TCU, Iowa St v K State?
I don’t see CBS holding a permanent spot for the Big 12 game of the week, but if they did it’s because the Big12 gives them a hell of a deal in exchange for the guaranteed exposure.  But that means they’ll be going up against the SEC game of the week and likely a lesser B1G game with a blueblood vs a weaker conference opponent on FOX (assuming FOX uses its best content for Big Noon and prime time) so even with that national broadcast I’m not sure how successful they’ll be when they are opposite Bama v OU on ABC and Michigan v Illinois on FOX.

I have lots of friends in Chicago and Indiana, or folks that are Midwest Catholics. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that was a Notre Dame fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sbbruin 21,853]

3 hours ago, kopp0e said:

To me it would seem a good idea to place the best brands in 1 league…

Washington

Oregon

California

Stanford

*San Diego State

*UNLV

Arizona

Arizona State

Utah

Colorado

Iowa State

Kansas

Oklahoma State

Texas Tech

TCU

*Houston

In doing so it leaves room to regain part of Los Angeles tv market eh..?

Seems to me you're better off basically keeping all of the remaining PAC schools (so keep Wazzu and OSU instead of SDSU and UNLV), and maybe take all of the existing Big 12 without the new additions (maybe keep Cincy and BYU?).  But just create a new league.  It wouldn;t be SEC or B1G, but it'd be a good league.

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

1 minute ago, Texzilla58 said:

I have lots of friends in Chicago and Indiana, or folks that are Midwest Catholics. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that was a Notre Dame fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a Midwest Catholic who was born and raised in an extremely Catholic community.  I know 3-4 Notre Dame fans, maybe.

[bullet 1,597]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

Example- last year, the BU/ISU game had good viewership- 2 million. That game was at 3:30, on Fox. Texas hosted TT at noon on ABC and OU hosted WVU at 7:00, on ABC. Arkansas hosted the Ags as 3:30 competition that day, on CBS.
With Texas and OU in the SEC, how many of their fans will be watching the B12 matchup that leads into or follows “their” game? Wo t they switch to the SEC game adjacent to theirs? 

I spent my elementary years in SEC territory.  But I have more interest in TCU/Baylor/Tech than Ole Miss/Vandy/MSU/South Carolina/Missouri or even Florida or Tennessee.

[bullet 1,597]

3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm a Midwest Catholic who was born and raised in an extremely Catholic community.  I know 3-4 Notre Dame fans, maybe.

I think its more of an Irish thing than a Catholic thing.

[LTtxfan 49,186]

2 minutes ago, bullet said:

I spent my elementary years in SEC territory.  But I have more interest in TCU/Baylor/Tech than Ole Miss/Vandy/MSU/South Carolina/Missouri or even Florida or Tennessee.

That's messed up 

• Ole Miss w/Kiffin is awesome + The Grove
• Gata has always a been great watch
• Vols games are a blast -- great road trip

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

5 minutes ago, bullet said:

I think its more of an Irish thing than a Catholic thing.

Would make sense.  My hometown is very German, and the few ND fans I know are all Irish Catholic.

[Texzilla58 4,735]

I think its more of an Irish thing than a Catholic thing.

Ok. A huge portion of the country is of either Irish or Scots-Irish ancestry. I don’t see it. Its a contrived media thing going back to Knute Rockne. Fuck that shit.

[TexEx15 17,524]

Haha.

[BurntOrange&White 39,932]

Scoop:

By: Justin, Gerry, and Eric

Realignment

USC and UCLA could be the domino that helps untether UT and OU from the Big 12. We‘ve heard OU does have the exit fee, but now we’re hearing the schools may get out without penalty due to the timing of contracts.

There is a very strong chance schools from the Pac 12 and Big 12 will merge. That doesn’t mean all schools will make the cut but that’s not really important for UT’s purposes. What is important is contract negotiations for the Pac are scheduled to start this year ahead of a 2024 expiration. Any merge with the Big 12 obviously could not include UT and OU as far as contracts go.

Stay tuned.

[Viper 12,109]

comments from the IT Scoop:

[thunderlounge 7,831]

19 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Seems to me you're better off basically keeping all of the remaining PAC schools (so keep Wazzu and OSU instead of SDSU and UNLV), and maybe take all of the existing Big 12 without the new additions (maybe keep Cincy and BYU?).  But just create a new league.  It wouldn;t be SEC or B1G, but it'd be a good league.

This is getting on the right track. 
 

For the mids of pac/b12ish to survive, they need to drop the weight and put together the best they can. 

B12 needs to drop their new additions to start, and deadweight needs cleansed. 
 

Only way to do that is to dissolve them both and form a new conference.

If you take those same teams and call it a merger vice new, that’s way too actionable of a position to hand over on a platter to those getting cut.

Same thing b1g/sec will do when it goes to the end game league.

One thing that keeps being left out is that conferences/leagues need a few doormats to make the big boys look better.

You put all top teams in a league and someone has to lose.

Which means a switch in playoff entry requirements from poll to play-in.

Think about it. Even the parity driven nfl has scrub teams. 

['stache 21,815]

25 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm a Midwest Catholic who was born and raised in an extremely Catholic community.  I know 3-4 Notre Dame fans, maybe.

My dad cheered for Notre Dame as a Mexican-American Catholic. But he also didn't attend a 4 year college and had no allegiances elsewhere. He's also from the era where Notre Dame was on TV way more than anyone else which I suspect is the main reason because I don't think he really follows them anymore. I think Notre Dame's days as a national draw are coming to an end, but they still have a strong following and ratings, at least when they are good. They'd do better in the BIG at this point I think, financially and prestige-wise.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

17 minutes ago, Viper said:

comments from the IT Scoop:

LOL, that's a quality call back to weave Larry Scott's tennis CEO background into portapotty scuttlebutt.

Edited July 18, 2022 by clapclapclap

[TKthunder2 4,991]

Swim swam and tennis CEOs, I love silly season.

[billfromlaketravis 11,476]

Hmm, Nahlin thinks the PAC and the Big 12 (sans Texas and OU of course) merge, but he doesn't think it'll be a full merger. 

My guess : The Four Corner schools join the Big 12 to go to 16. Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon State, UW, and Wazzu go another direction.

I'd be happen for Tech if this happens.

[LTtxfan 49,186]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:30 AM, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

B12 might want to stay away from the politics in California.  Adding 4 Corners + 2 Oregon, and 2 Washington teams from the Pac12 might be a great way to go.  

End up with 20 teams...

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by LTtxfan

[Texas Wahoo 3,395]

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

[billfromlaketravis 11,476]

10 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

Whew, that would be nice. Win-win for Texas/OU. Win-win for the Domers. Win-win for the SEC because the Domers didn't join the BIG. And of course, win-win for the Big 12. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,932]

12 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

Lol. Big 12 would be stupid to let them be used like leverage

[USC_TMB 405]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

Seems to me you're better off basically keeping all of the remaining PAC schools (so keep Wazzu and OSU instead of SDSU and UNLV), and maybe take all of the existing Big 12 without the new additions (maybe keep Cincy and BYU?).  But just create a new league.  It wouldn;t be SEC or B1G, but it'd be a good league.

Not to mention the fact that it is highly doubtful Cal, Stanford, and possibly Washington and Arizona would want to be lumped in with SDSU & UNLV, academically. And yes I get the irony of Oregon State & ASU being in the PAC, those were state-mandated “take your little brother with you” deals. One of the criteria for PAC membership was (key word) being an academic research institution, the UC schools, USC, Stanford, UO, UW, etc..

Yes I know those days are over, the world is now about $$$ and market share. So all bets are off, but I would be shocked if Cal & Stanford agree to be merged with a Cal State school. Stanford in particular just DGAF, they have a metric fuckton of money and would just hold out until the B1G came calling. 

[Vermin 3,043]

Notre Dame using the Big 12 as a whore would be bad since they would getting a Texas recruiting foothold.

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Lol. Big 12 would be stupid to let them be used like leverage

Uhhh... It gives the Big 12 at least 2 (if not 3) major channel windows every week.  As long as the money works, this is awesome for the Big 12.

This isn't a partnership between the Big 12 and Notre Dame.  It's NBC partnering with those entities separately.  At least that's how I read it.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[Huckleberry 32,859]

Yeah, not sure how that's bad for the Big 12. While I think CBS would be a better option if they could get it, any significant contract that guarantees the conference's future (for as long as those things are guaranteed these days) is a win. 

And grabbing the Four Corners schools and stopping at 16 is easily better than trying to get crazy and spread to the PNW. Adding rivalries is an underrated part of all this. SEC and Big 10 did that with UT/OU and USC/UCLA. Four Corners move would add the Holy War with BYU coming on board and whatever they call AZ/ASU these days. Those aren't at the same level but they're better than anything left in the Big 12 from a national recognition standpoint I would think. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Huckleberry

[BurntOrange&White 39,932]

9 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhhh... It gives the Big 12 at least 2 (if not 3) major channel windows every week.  As long as the money works, this is awesome for the Big 12.

This isn't a partnership between the Big 12 and Notre Dame.  It's NBC partnering with those entities separately.  At least that's how I read it.

Way I see it is a shitty t3 rights deals. Fox/espn are the real money. A combined big12 and pac draws better deal

['stache 21,815]

39 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

They already have a "programming" relationship with the ACC, right? Why do they need more? How would this be any different? These are genuine questions, I'm sure it could be a good thing, but I'm not sure I understand. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They already have a "programming" relationship with the ACC, right? Why do they need more? How would this be any different? These are genuine questions, I'm sure it could be a good thing, but I'm not sure I understand. 

I think NBC wants to carry college football all day long, not just ND games.

So they get ND for one window, and use the Big 12 to fill the other windows so they're showing games all day like ABC/ESPN.

That's how I read it.  If there are 4 windows for games, ND is one and the Big 12 is in the other 3.  I'm definitely making some assumptions.

[Vermin 3,043]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think NBC wants to carry college football all day long, not just ND games.

So they get ND for one window, and use the Big 12 to fill the other windows so they're showing games all day like ABC/ESPN.

That's how I read it.  If there are 4 windows for games, ND is one and the Big 12 is in the other 3.  I'm definitely making some assumptions.

Why would ND care if NBC airs more games before or after their game? They would probably benefit from the lead in!

[camel at sea 589]

 

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think NBC wants to carry college football all day long, not just ND games.

So they get ND for one window, and use the Big 12 to fill the other windows so they're showing games all day like ABC/ESPN.

That's how I read it.  If there are 4 windows for games, ND is one and the Big 12 is in the other 3.  I'm definitely making some assumptions.

Yeah.  I think "shoulder programming" refers to the TV windows on either side of (before and after) the ND game.  That would be an awesome outcome for the Big 12.  If NBC were willing to pick up the league's tier 3 inventory and park it on Peacock, then even better.  

Notre Dame might only be worth $75M to NBC if they have those shoulder games around them to help secure the eyeballs/revenue to pay for them.  

[Trey3216 15,346]

28 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhhh... It gives the Big 12 at least 2 (if not 3) major channel windows every week.  As long as the money works, this is awesome for the Big 12.

This isn't a partnership between the Big 12 and Notre Dame.  It's NBC partnering with those entities separately.  At least that's how I read it.

It could delve into a one game/yr scheduling add for ND as well though.  You never know.  But having multiple bidders on the Tier 1 media is going to be a good thing for the Big XII going forward. 

NBC schedule could look like this...

11am Big XII matchup

2:30 ND

6PM Big XII

and then FOX could come in with the 9PM (Central) Big XII night cap   

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

13 minutes ago, Vermin said:

Why would ND care if NBC airs more games before or after their game? They would probably benefit from the lead in!

More games on NBC equals more casual viewers on the channel.

I'm guessing ND is indifferent to the Big 12 component.  They like being on NBC.  NBC likes having ND.  NBC wants to have more than one game on every week.  I don't think there's really much more to it.

12 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

 

Yeah.  I think "shoulder programming" refers to the TV windows on either side of (before and after) the ND game.  That would be an awesome outcome for the Big 12.  If NBC were willing to pick up the league's tier 3 inventory and park it on Peacock, then even better.  

Notre Dame might only be worth $75M to NBC if they have those shoulder games around them to help secure the eyeballs/revenue to pay for them.  

Yeah, I would be completely down with Tier 3 on Peacock.  I don't care much for ESPN+ thus far.

[Vermin 3,043]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

More games on NBC equals more casual viewers on the channel.

I'm guessing ND is indifferent to the Big 12 component.  They like being on NBC.  NBC likes having ND.  NBC wants to have more than one game on every week.  I don't think there's really much more to it.

Why does Notre Dame get to extract a pound of flesh over games that they aren't in? I don't get that part. Did NBC get bent over a rail on an exclusive agreement they have to pay to get out of?

[USC_TMB 405]

1 minute ago, Vermin said:

Why does Notre Dame get to extract a pound of flesh over games that they aren't in? I don't get that part. Did NBC get bent over a rail on an exclusive agreement they have to pay to get out of?

Because they are Notre Dame and they are special /sarcasm

[Al_4_ISU 12,463]

1 minute ago, Vermin said:

Why does Notre Dame get to extract a pound of flesh over games that they aren't in? I don't get that part. Did NBC get bent over a rail on an exclusive agreement they have to pay to get out of?

I think ND is just looking for a certain number from NBC, and NBC wants to have more games on.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything where ND is getting a cut from the Big 12.  More that NBC is looking to invest in a full college slate to build around their deal with Notre Dame.  I don't see any link between the Big 12 and ND other than playing on the same channel.

[closetohumping 17,442]

Just now, USC_TMB said:

Because they are Notre Dame and they are special /sarcasm

I wish the B1g and sec would just tell ND to fuck off in any playoff scenario.  Why do we have to account for them?

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

43 minutes ago, USC_TMB said:

Not to mention the fact that it is highly doubtful Cal, Stanford, and possibly Washington and Arizona would want to be lumped in with SDSU & UNLV, academically. And yes I get the irony of Oregon State & ASU being in the PAC, those were state-mandated “take your little brother with you” deals. One of the criteria for PAC membership was (key word) being an academic research institution, the UC schools, USC, Stanford, UO, UW, etc..

Yes I know those days are over, the world is now about $$$ and market share. So all bets are off, but I would be shocked if Cal & Stanford agree to be merged with a Cal State school. Stanford in particular just DGAF, they have a metric fuckton of money and would just hold out until the B1G came calling. 

If Stanford threatened to fold up their football program (or play in an Ivy League type arrangement) because of the affiliation with some of the schools in their possible new arrangement (Baylor, BYU, SDSU, etc.), would the B1G cave in and take them now? Would the B1G take Stanford now to assist in eventually getting Notre Dame? I think the B1G could see that hypothetical situation as needing urgent action. Once Stanford downgraded, it may be really hard to bring the program back up to the big leagues and restart the program.