Realignment talk not going away

[Huckleberry 32,860]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think ND is just looking for a certain number from NBC, and NBC wants to have more games on.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything where ND is getting a cut from the Big 12.  More that NBC is looking to invest in a full college slate to build around their deal with Notre Dame.  I don't see any link between the Big 12 and ND other than playing on the same channel.

This is the only interpretation that makes sense. NBC doesn't want to invest in college football production for only one game every other week anymore. They want to either be a college football channel or not. So before they commit to giving ND that kind of money that want to have additional programming lined up. 

It's not about ND using the Big 12. It's about ND not getting what they want from NBC unless the network gets what they want. 

[USC_TMB 405]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I wish the B1g and sec would just tell ND to fuck off in any playoff scenario.  Why do we have to account for them?

Ideally, that would happen if the Domers try to get too cute and flex on the B1G & SEC. It won’t happen for some unknown reason, but they may be in for a rude awakening as far as brand value goes in the modern market.

[Vermin 3,043]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think ND is just looking for a certain number from NBC, and NBC wants to have more games on.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything where ND is getting a cut from the Big 12.  More that NBC is looking to invest in a full college slate to build around their deal with Notre Dame.  I don't see any link between the Big 12 and ND other than playing on the same channel.

You're right, reading the article closely it's just aspirational and there's no there there.

It's in the interest of TV networks to keep the college football divided so they get better deals. So they're saying to NBC they should take one for the team and overpay us for the good of the networks.

['stache 21,815]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think ND is just looking for a certain number from NBC, and NBC wants to have more games on.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything where ND is getting a cut from the Big 12.  More that NBC is looking to invest in a full college slate to build around their deal with Notre Dame.  I don't see any link between the Big 12 and ND other than playing on the same channel.

The article implies that ND could make more money if Big 12 games are played before or after on NBC? Sounds like two separate issues. If NBC wants more programing from the Big 12 then make a deal. If it helps ND in a roundabout way, fine. But the article makes it sound like ND can get $75 million from NBC if they can get Big 12 programming as well. Tying the two makes it seem as though ND would get more money by leveraging games they aren't playing in, which is troubling if not stupid. I might understand if they are saying that more P5 programming would help them ramp up their productions and expand the pie for everyone on their network. If that's the case, just say that, because the article heavily implies that ND would get more money based on other teams playing on the network. And fuck all with Peacock, the ratings would be worse than on ESPN+, which is at least gaining some momentum as a streaming service tied with Hulu and Disney +. 

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

4 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I wish the B1g and sec would just tell ND to fuck off in any playoff scenario.  Why do we have to account for them?

I agree!

But the reason it hasn't happened is SEC/ESPN do not want to give the B1G Notre Dame for competitive reasons. ESPN locked the ACC in that bad contract with ND and the ACCN for the same reasons they did it to Texas for the LHN. It was future leverage.

But this thing is all over. At some point in the future, ND is going to join the B1G. If I'm the SEC/ESPN, I give them ND (make the ACC contract workable and make no concessions in the playoff) in return for UNC. For the SEC, that's the team that is up for grabs and they need to win it. They can then add Virginia/VT, Clemson, FSU with UNC.

[Vertigo 20,285]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Scoop:

By: Justin, Gerry, and Eric

Realignment

USC and UCLA could be the domino that helps untether UT and OU from the Big 12. We‘ve heard OU does have the exit fee, but now we’re hearing the schools may get out without penalty due to the timing of contracts.

There is a very strong chance schools from the Pac 12 and Big 12 will merge. That doesn’t mean all schools will make the cut but that’s not really important for UT’s purposes. What is important is contract negotiations for the Pac are scheduled to start this year ahead of a 2024 expiration. Any merge with the Big 12 obviously could not include UT and OU as far as contracts go.

Stay tuned.

A merger would be stupid on both parties. Dissolving both conferences would probably be the better way to go with each conference jettisoning a few bottom feeder schools to the MWC or the AAC to increase the per school payout of a net new conference. If the PAC ditched Oregon State and Wazzu, and the B12 ditched Kansas State +1, you would have a 20 team league that would be pretty solid across the board. UCF is a scheduling albatross in this scenario, although they are a program that could be legit in another decade. It might turn into a deathmatch between schools like Cincinnati and Houston for the other guy off the island. 

[Texzilla58 4,735]

The Big12 needs to take 4corners and skip all the other pac schools. They aren’t draws, and if left out, they lose all leverage for Cali recruiting. They will either. That gives B12 a nice middle nation conference. The pnw schools will have issues with Baylor and Texas/Oklahoma in general.

[Texas Wahoo 3,395]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The article implies that ND could make more money if Big 12 games are played before or after on NBC? Sounds like two separate issues. If NBC wants more programing from the Big 12 then make a deal. If it helps ND in a roundabout way, fine. But the article makes it sound like ND can get $75 million from NBC if they can get Big 12 programming as well. Tying the two makes it seem as though ND would get more money by leveraging games they aren't playing in, which is troubling if not stupid. I might understand if they are saying that more P5 programming would help them ramp up their productions and expand the pie for everyone on their network. If that's the case, just say that, because the article heavily implies that ND would get more money based on other teams playing on the network. And fuck all with Peacock, the ratings would be worse than on ESPN+, which is at least gaining some momentum as a streaming service tied with Hulu and Disney +. 

I am wondering if the thought is that the Big 12 would take a little less money (which could then go to ND) in exchange for these valuable network TV slots surrounding Notre Dame games.

[USC_TMB 405]

1 minute ago, Texzilla58 said:

The Big12 needs to take 4corners and skip all the other pac schools. They aren’t draws, and if left out, they lose all leverage for Cali recruiting. They will either. That gives B12 a nice middle nation conference. The pnw schools will have issues with Baylor and Texas/Oklahoma in general.

Uncle Phil/Nike won’t allow the ducks to be left out

['stache 21,815]

4 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

I am wondering if the thought is that the Big 12 would take a little less money (which could then go to ND) in exchange for these valuable network TV slots surrounding Notre Dame games.

That would be the worst sales pitch of all time. The article was published by CBS so maybe it's intentionally confusing to dissuade the Big XII from working with NBC.

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

4 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

A merger would be stupid on both parties. Dissolving both conferences would probably be the better way to go with each conference jettisoning a few bottom feeder schools to the MWC or the AAC to increase the per school payout of a net new conference. If the PAC ditched Oregon State and Wazzu, and the B12 ditched Kansas State +1, you would have a 20 team league that would be pretty solid across the board. UCF is a scheduling albatross in this scenario, although they are a program that could be legit in another decade. It might turn into a deathmatch between schools like Cincinnati and Houston for the other guy off the island. 

Don't forget there will be leftovers in the ACC at some point and possibly an increase in conference games. Those teams on the East Coast could have more partners in the future. Let's also remember that Oregon, Washington and Stanford (possibly even Colorado and Arizona/Arizona State) could be invited to the B1G down the road. The PAC schools also need more CST and EST games to help viewership numbers.

I definitely think Oregon State and Washington State should be left behind. I could see one of Kansas or Kansas State and maybe Baylor getting the shaft. Of course, if Stanford dictates the show then BYU won't be getting in. That wouldn't be a good move for the Big 12 long term IMO. For the most part, every team brings about the $.

[camel at sea 589]

3 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

I am wondering if the thought is that the Big 12 would take a little less money (which could then go to ND) in exchange for these valuable network TV slots surrounding Notre Dame games.

I'd imagine it's a combo of that and also that ND's game will be more valuable if it has a quality P5 lead-in / follow-up.  It's probably a struggle to get people to flip the channel over to NBC (or the Peacock app) but more probably do it if in addition to ND vs. UNC, they also get #23 Oklahoma State vs. #14 Baylor as the 11 a.m. lead in, followed by #18 Utah hosting TCU in the night cap.  Training the public to channel crawl / app hop is a real thing.  You've got to provide as much incentive as possible.    

If rising tides lift all boats, then NBC needs to acquire a tide for their ND boat to rise on.  

[bullet 1,597]

3 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Ok. A huge portion of the country is of either Irish or Scots-Irish ancestry. I don’t see it. Its a contrived media thing going back to Knute Rockne. Fuck that shit.

Maybe you don't know many Irish!  They have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about past discrimination.  Especially the older ones.  That's why ND is the team of New York City.  And the Scotch-Irish and Irish had a long war in Northern Ireland.  Scotch-Irish are not Notre Dame fans.

I have a friend who secondarily follows ND as she has relatives who went there.   She's also Irish descent and talks how upset some relatives were when they discovered they had some English blood.  Irish ties to the Fighting Irish are a real thing.

 

[bullet 1,597]

3 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

That's messed up 

• Ole Miss w/Kiffin is awesome + The Grove
• Gata has always a been great watch
• Vols games are a blast -- great road trip

Gators make OU fans look classy.

I've been to Knoxville a few times.  But on TV, I'd rather watch the Texas schools.

[bullet 1,597]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhhh... It gives the Big 12 at least 2 (if not 3) major channel windows every week.  As long as the money works, this is awesome for the Big 12.

This isn't a partnership between the Big 12 and Notre Dame.  It's NBC partnering with those entities separately.  At least that's how I read it.

Yes.  Good for Big 12.

Wonder if NBC is getting pessimistic about winning the Big 10 sweepstakes.  If they win the Big 10 would that make ND more or less likely to join the Big 10?

[bullet 1,597]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think NBC wants to carry college football all day long, not just ND games.

So they get ND for one window, and use the Big 12 to fill the other windows so they're showing games all day like ABC/ESPN.

That's how I read it.  If there are 4 windows for games, ND is one and the Big 12 is in the other 3.  I'm definitely making some assumptions.

Right now they just have 5 to 7 college football games a year.  They want to have every week college football programming and to sometimes have doubleheaders.

[bullet 1,597]

43 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think ND is just looking for a certain number from NBC, and NBC wants to have more games on.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything where ND is getting a cut from the Big 12.  More that NBC is looking to invest in a full college slate to build around their deal with Notre Dame.  I don't see any link between the Big 12 and ND other than playing on the same channel.

Yes.  Its just a way for NBC to market Notre Dame better.  Synergy from having more games and options.  Its why Notre Dame has more value in a conference than independent.

[camel at sea 589]

6 minutes ago, bullet said:

Yes.  Its just a way for NBC to market Notre Dame better.  Synergy from having more games and options.  Its why Notre Dame has more value in a conference than independent.

11:00 a.m. #11 Baylor @ #17 Oklahoma State
3:00 p.m. North Carolina @ #7 Notre Dame
7:00 p.m. Arizona State @ #22 BYU  

The Big 12 benefits on both ends of that with ND fans catching the end of the first Big 12 game and maybe staying on the same channel to watch the night cap.  The ND game gets the TV carry-over from the Big 12 game of the week that led into it.  From NBC's side of it, can they feel pretty confident that the new Big 12 will usually have at least a few teams ranked in the poll each week?  Probably.  

[statsman 5,470]

35 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

  From NBC's side of it, can they feel pretty confident that the new Big 12 will usually have at least a few teams ranked in the poll each week?  Probably.  

??

I don’t think you know how this is going to work, going forward. The SEC and B10 will have much larger budgets and NIL payrolls. There will be a split in team quality similar to EPL to lower divisions. It will take a few years, but I see the gaps growing, not shrinking. 

[YouLoveMyPenises 79]

Why would NBC partner with the Big 12 when SEC and Big 10 media deals are coming due?

 

If they wanted to be serious about CFB, why would they muck around with the minor leagues?

[Not a Sock 2,313]

12 minutes ago, YouLoveMyPenises said:

Why would NBC partner with the Big 12 when SEC and Big 10 media deals are coming due?

 

If they wanted to be serious about CFB, why would they muck around with the minor leagues?

Because they don’t have the pull to get either of those two.

[Ojo Rojo 1,965]

I'm fascinated by this, even though it's sad. I guess I just hate change because now I'm an old. I prefer the regional conferences. If I were the Czar of college football, I'd have 8 regional conferences and a 16 team playoff. There is no Czar.  The NCAA has no authority over the individual schools or conferences and where they go or what they do.  There is no centralized authority.  Certainly there is nobody out there trying to do what's best for the fans like us. Each school is attempting to act in their own best interest.

I don't know the calculus here, but it seems like the only thing that really matters is how much money a school can contribute to the conference for larger payouts to the members. And that number is driven almost entirely by media rights. It should be a known variable for each school:  School X is worth Y dollars per year and so on.  That would dictate whether the school was a net contributor or not.  You would think any conference would want any net contributor. Maybe that number is harder to know than I think.  Maybe it's subjective because it is essentially determined by market forces, i.e. what someone is willing to pay for it.  To me, it would seem to make sense for the remainder of the Pac 12 and Big 12 to merge.  Then there would be 4 top conferences. 4 champions; 4 playoff spots.  More or less divided by region.  But again, this is just my opinion from an organizational standpoint, without factoring in the most important factor - the money. It must be that more is not better.  You water down the payout for each school by bringing in schools with media rights worth less than the payout figure. 

[Hagbard Celine 10,864]

3 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Whew, that would be nice. Win-win for Texas/OU. Win-win for the Domers. Win-win for the SEC because the Domers didn't join the BIG. And of course, win-win for the Big 12. 

the 2 biggest impediments to progress on the playoffs have been the rose bowl and indydomer

1 down, 1 to go

[Texzilla58 4,735]

Maybe you don't know many Irish!  They have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about past discrimination.  Especially the older ones.  That's why ND is the team of New York City.  And the Scotch-Irish and Irish had a long war in Northern Ireland.  Scotch-Irish are not Notre Dame fans.
I have a friend who secondarily follows ND as she has relatives who went there.   She's also Irish descent and talks how upset some relatives were when they discovered they had some English blood.  Irish ties to the Fighting Irish are a real thing.
 

I know a whole bunch of folks in NYC. Irish. Whatever. I dont know any fucking ND fans. Most don’t pay much attention to college ball, or if they do it’s Rutgers, or whatever. Most are pro sports fans and either Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Knicks or Jets/Nets/Mets/Islanders.

Maybe you don't know many Irish!  They have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about past discrimination.  Especially the older ones.  That's why ND is the team of New York City.  And the Scotch-Irish and Irish had a long war in Northern Ireland.  Scotch-Irish are not Notre Dame fans.
I have a friend who secondarily follows ND as she has relatives who went there.   She's also Irish descent and talks how upset some relatives were when they discovered they had some English blood.  Irish ties to the Fighting Irish are a real thing.
 

I know a whole bunch of folks in NYC. Irish. Whatever. I dont know any fucking ND fans. Most don’t pay much attention to college ball, or if they do it’s Rutgers, or whatever. Most are pro sports fans and either Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Knicks or Jets/Nets/Mets/Islanders.

[Hagbard Celine 10,864]

2 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

If Stanford threatened to fold up their football program (or play in an Ivy League type arrangement) because of the affiliation with some of the schools in their possible new arrangement (Baylor, BYU, SDSU, etc.), would the B1G cave in and take them now? Would the B1G take Stanford now to assist in eventually getting Notre Dame? I think the B1G could see that hypothetical situation as needing urgent action. Once Stanford downgraded, it may be really hard to bring the program back up to the big leagues and restart the program. 

the b1g already decided to fuck stanford by killing the last gasp of rosebowl special-ness

why are they going to care now?  or in the future?

how many fucks did the b1g give in '82 when the ivies were ejected to 1-AA?

tree have 4 outcomes:

1 - pull head out of sand and save the pac as-is, stay Division 1 in everything

2 - remain in de-nile, watch the 4 corners depart, keep sports, watch the rest of their league outvote them to add boise, nevada, unlv, sd state, fresno state and hawaii

3 - remain in de-nile, watch the 4 corners depart, quit football, go independent for everything else Division 1

4 - quit football, take everything else to D-III (see: Chicago, University of)

1 - make a lot less money

2 - make even less money

3 - break even

4 - lose money

[YouLoveMyPenises 79]

1 hour ago, Not a Sock said:

Because they don’t have the pull to get either of those two.

Comcast is orders of magnitude bigger than Fox.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

Arizona 247 writer

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

4 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the b1g already decided to fuck stanford by killing the last gasp of rosebowl special-ness

why are they going to care now?  or in the future?

how many fucks did the b1g give in '82 when the ivies were ejected to 1-AA?

tree have 4 outcomes:

1 - pull head out of sand and save the pac as-is, stay Division 1 in everything

2 - remain in de-nile, watch the 4 corners depart, keep sports, watch the rest of their league outvote them to add boise, nevada, unlv, sd state, fresno state and hawaii

3 - remain in de-nile, watch the 4 corners depart, quit football, go independent for everything else Division 1

4 - quit football, take everything else to D-III (see: Chicago, University of)

1 - make a lot less money

2 - make even less money

3 - break even

4 - lose money

It's been reported that Stanford could be considered a requirement by Notre Dame in order to enter the B1G. It's been reported by a former TV executive that, because of the B1G Network and the Northern California market, Stanford brings the most value out of the rest of the PAC teams; by a considerable amount too. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I get it. I also know the B1G presidents would love Stanford's academic pedigree in the B1G.

If both statements are true, the B1G may reconsider Stanford in the scenario I mentioned in the previous post. If Stanford seriously considers an Ivy approach, the B1G may want to prevent that kind of scenario. This isn't the same situation as the other Ivies back in the day.  B1G wants ND first for financial reasons, but they may have to leverage ND's independence in order to finally get them in the B1G. 

[Not a Sock 2,313]

18 minutes ago, YouLoveMyPenises said:

Comcast is orders of magnitude bigger than Fox.

Which doesn’t actually mean much, NBC while a subsidiary of Comcast still operates as it’s own company and the limitations as purely broadcast company same with ESPN and Disney.

[bullet 1,597]

43 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

I know a whole bunch of folks in NYC. Irish. Whatever. I dont know any fucking ND fans. Most don’t pay much attention to college ball, or if they do it’s Rutgers, or whatever. Most are pro sports fans and either Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Knicks or Jets/Nets/Mets/Islanders.
I know a whole bunch of folks in NYC. Irish. Whatever. I dont know any fucking ND fans. Most don’t pay much attention to college ball, or if they do it’s Rutgers, or whatever. Most are pro sports fans and either Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Knicks or Jets/Nets/Mets/Islanders.

Well so maybe you know a higher quality of people than ND fans!

https://knoji.com/article/10-most-popular-college-football-teams-in-new-york-city/

"...These are the results from the people polled in the New York City area.

10 Most Popular College Football Teams in New York City

1. Rutgers - 607,157 fans

There are roughly 3 million college football fans living in the New York area. With 607,157 fans, Rutgers University is the most popular college football team in the NYC area. Rutgers is the only major college in the New York City area that plays college football. With some 50,000 undergrads, one can understand why Rutgers is the most popular college football team. Over 20% of all the college football fans in the New York City area are Rutgers fans.

2. Notre Dame - 304,535

Image Source by Tedmoseby

The Fighting Irish are popular everywhere, and no more so than in NYC. With 304,535 fans in New York, Notre Dame is the second most popular college football team in the city. There are actually more Notre Dame fans in NYC than anywhere else, including South Bend, Indiana. If there is a college football team that can be called America's Team it's Notre Dame...."

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

19 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

I agree, CBS wants games that will routinely draw national attention. The SEC, B1G, and ND would drive that, the Big 12 might stumble into a good ranked v ranked matchup once or twice a month but what is the best game each year that people consistently want to see?  Oklahoma St v West Virginia, Baylor v TCU, Iowa St v K State?

I don’t see CBS holding a permanent spot for the Big 12 game of the week, but if they did it’s because the Big12 gives them a hell of a deal in exchange for the guaranteed exposure.  But that means they’ll be going up against the SEC game of the week and likely a lesser B1G game with a blueblood vs a weaker conference opponent on FOX (assuming FOX uses its best content for Big Noon and prime time) so even with that national broadcast I’m not sure how successful they’ll be when they are opposite Bama v OU on ABC and Michigan v Illinois on FOX.

The issue here is how CBS views it is a bit more long term.   When they picked up the SEC on CBS, it wasn't the behemoth it is today.  CBS and winning championships when you get there is basically the key to the growth of the SEC, then it snowballed.   Everyone knows the SEC game of the week is on 3:30 eastern on CBS because that is literally all CBS Sports talks about ad nauseum.

So, while, yes, they would rather have Alabama/Georgia, they're not willing to pay for Alabama/Georgia any more and, per @camel at sea's post above, the SEC doesn't need CBS's exposure nor give a discount for it.

For CBS, if they can get high value games, not epic games, pay 75% value and provide 25% in marketing exposure, they still get a deal because the money they invest will net ratings similar to their investment.   Like the SEC, what they'd be looking to do is invest in a property and help build it, not pay top dollar for the big dogs.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11,479]

Notre Dame is going to stay independent unless the BIG starts f***ing with their rivalries. If the BIG instructs SC and Michigan to drop ND, that would get their attention. 

[MrBig 5,398]

This realignment is all about control over the future of postseason play after the CFP ends. 

There have been 8 years of CFP. 

SEC -8/8 never excluded [5 CHAMPIONSHIPS]

ACC -7/8 - (6 Clemson & 1 FSU) - [2 CHAMPIONSHIPS]

Big Ten -6/8 - (4 OSU, 1 MSU, 1 Michigan) - [1 CHAMPIONSHIP]

Big 12 - 4/8 - (OU lost all 4 times)

Pac 12 & ND -2/8 appearances each

If the SEC just takes Clemson, that’s a conference with 7/8 of the past winners. The SEC has an opportunity to add specific teams and create enough leverage to hold their own playoff tournament with complete control. 

They can market the league as the highest tier of college football and make everyone else seem like they are playing in a season long version of the NIT tournament that doesn’t mean anything because it’s all inferior competition.

I hate this SEC pumping. I’ll never chant for the SEC at games. But the business is what it is. Texas wouldn’t have jumped to the SEC if they didn’t see it, and the LA teams wouldn’t have joined the Big Ten if they weren’t shitting about their future in the PAC 12. 

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

1 hour ago, YouLoveMyPenises said:

Why would NBC partner with the Big 12 when SEC and Big 10 media deals are coming due?

 

If they wanted to be serious about CFB, why would they muck around with the minor leagues?

Per above, because they don't want to spend $1B and they don't want to tie up all of their inventory because they have bad TV shows that still out draw good CFB games.   They also value the exposure they bring to a partner.   So if you're worth $10m a game, CBS want to pay you $7m a game and provide $3m in ad space promotions during the week.   

The Big Ten and SEC don't need promotion any more like they may have 20 years ago.   But the Big 12 does.   ND values it too.

So NBC or CBS pay ND $13-15m per game for 6 games and they pay the Big 12 $7-8m per game for 15.    The networks get respectable book end numbers and the Big 12 gets to build brands for the next decade in what amounts to $30-45m in free brand marketing.  

The Big 12 isn't going to get the numbers the B1G/SEC have, so they need to build up.   Giving up cash for opportunity and exposure is how you do that.

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

6 minutes ago, MrBig said:

This realignment is all about control over the future of postseason play after the CFP ends. 

There have been 8 years of CFP. 

SEC -8/8 never excluded [5 CHAMPIONSHIPS]

ACC -7/8 - (6 Clemson & 1 FSU) - [2 CHAMPIONSHIPS]

Big Ten -6/8 - (4 OSU, 1 MSU, 1 Michigan) - [1 CHAMPIONSHIP]

Big 12 - 4/8 - (OU lost all 4 times)

Pac 12 & ND -2/8 appearances each

If the SEC just takes Clemson, that’s a conference with 7/8 of the past winners. The SEC has an opportunity to add specific teams and create enough leverage to hold their own playoff tournament with complete control. 

They can market the league as the highest tier of college football and make everyone else seem like they are playing in a season long version of the NIT tournament that doesn’t mean anything because it’s all inferior competition.

I hate this SEC pumping. I’ll never chant for the SEC at games. But the business is what it is. Texas wouldn’t have jumped to the SEC if they didn’t see it, and the LA teams wouldn’t have joined the Big Ten if they weren’t shitting about their future in the PAC 12. 

But...why?   Does Clemson even sniff those titles if they're playing in the SEC instead of the ACC?   

 

[billfromlaketravis 11,479]

SC and UCLA are still in the PAC if their regarded former commissioner Larry Scott didn’t block the 12 team playoff. Kevin Warren cleverly manipulated Scott to block it. And here we are a few later with Warren carrying away the PAC’s premier program. 
 

Why the ACC blocked the playoff is baffling. Notre Dame wanted it, and so did their TV partner ESPN. 

[TKthunder2 4,991]

2 hours ago, camel at sea said:

11:00 a.m. #11 Baylor @ #17 Oklahoma State
3:00 p.m. North Carolina @ #7 Notre Dame
7:00 p.m. Arizona State @ #22 BYU  

The Big 12 benefits on both ends of that with ND fans catching the end of the first Big 12 game and maybe staying on the same channel to watch the night cap.  The ND game gets the TV carry-over from the Big 12 game of the week that led into it.  From NBC's side of it, can they feel pretty confident that the new Big 12 will usually have at least a few teams ranked in the poll each week?  Probably.  

You’re way over your skis here.  You think NBC will go from having 6 ND games out of a 15 week season, to having 3 games a week on national broadcast television?  If that happens then it won’t be with the Big 12 filling 2-3 spots a week.

3 hours ago, bullet said:

Right now they just have 5 to 7 college football games a year.  They want to have every week college football programming and to sometimes have doubleheaders.

Yep, 1 game a week, just like CBS has with the SEC but with ND/B12.

ND fills 6 of the 14-15 spots, the Big 12 could fill the other 7-8.  This actually solves the biggest problem I wrote about previously. The Big 12 doesn’t have enough quality tier one inventory to fill a national slot every week. By partnering with ND and working out a schedule that works around ND’s away games, the Big 12 could fill those holes in NBC’s weekend.  Instead of needing an elite game of week every week, by partnering with NBC/ND they only need to have 4-5 good games a year to get a good network deal.  That seems reasonable. I never understood the appeal for CBS but I get it for NBC.

[camel at sea 589]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

??

I don’t think you know how this is going to work, going forward. The SEC and B10 will have much larger budgets and NIL payrolls. There will be a split in team quality similar to EPL to lower divisions. It will take a few years, but I see the gaps growing, not shrinking. 

If the American could be counted on to have a few teams at the top, in the AP top 25, the new Big 12 will be no different.  The 2005-2011 Big East usually had ranked teams, too.  

The schools with the deep NIL pockets already had deep bagman pockets.  The schools who win by developing high 3 star guys are going to continue signing high 3 star guys.  This isn't going to change as much as people think.  Either way, if you're playing a Big 12 schedule and finish 10-2, you're probably in the Top 25.  If you're playing an SEC schedule and finish 7-5, you're probably not ranked.  

[camel at sea 589]

8 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

You’re way over your skis here.  You think NBC will go from having 6 ND games out of a 15 week season, to having 3 games a week on national broadcast television?  If that happens then it won’t be with the Big 12 filling 2-3 spots a week.

The article from Dodd upthread talked about having games around ND's game and getting said games from the Big 12.  

[statsman 5,470]

19 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

 

The schools with the deep NIL pockets already had deep bagman pockets.  The schools who win by developing high 3 star guys are going to continue signing high 3 star guys.  This isn't going to change as much as people think.  Either way, if you're playing a Big 12 schedule and finish 10-2, you're probably in the Top 25.  If you're playing an SEC schedule and finish 7-5, you're probably not ranked.  

Actually, before the NIL era, Texas never won a single recruiting battle for a guy with his hand out. No Marcus DuPree, no Hart Lee Dykes, no Kevin Murray, no AD Peterson. Not a one. 
Second- I expect ISU, OSU and BU to continue to recruit three stars and develop them. I then expect P2 conference schools to recruit them away through the portal. 
If you’re TCU, KSU, ISU, BU or OSU, the ideal conference situation is one where revenue is shared equally, there are hard salary caps and there are penalties for transferring. That’s what they had a few years ago.
Now, there are no penalties for transferring, players may be legally paid  and there is no salary cap. The remainder B12 schools are about to find out what it’s like to be Bolton, trying to compete with Manchester United. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by statsman

[MrBig 5,398]

36 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

But...why?   Does Clemson even sniff those titles if they're playing in the SEC instead of the ACC?   

 

No. But that’s the point. Clemson was good enough to “sniff the titles” and make the CFP as an ACC team vs being a Pac 12 or Big 12 Team. This means that the Pac 12 & Big 12 don’t mean shit to the CFP and confirms that the Pac 12 & Big 12 have already been 2nd tier for a long time. Adding Clemson to the SEC is just for vanity and marketing purposes for the SEC now.

 

[BurntOrange&White 39,932]

58 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Notre Dame is going to stay independent unless the BIG starts f***ing with their rivalries. If the BIG instructs SC and Michigan to drop ND, that would get their attention. 

Conferences should start to play hardball with them tbh...

[DFW Horn 6,124]

 

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

9 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

 

RIP Oregon State and Washington State 

Edited July 19, 2022 by SimonBolivar

[Vertigo 20,285]

Just now, SimonBolivar said:

RIP Orrgon State and Washington State 

The time has come, the P12/B12 fight to the death. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[SimkinsMan 4,387]

11 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

 

Sounds like the Big 12 offered to absorb the Pac-10 schools, and the Pac-10 declined. Since the Pac-10 is going to get a shit media deal, I suspect the four corners schools will soon leave the Pac-10 for the Big 12. 

[Okie State 3,821]

Actually, before the NIL era, Texas never won a single recruiting battle for a guy with his hand out. No Marcus DuPree, no Hart Lee Dykes, no Kevin Murray, no AD Peterson. Not a one. 
Second- I expect ISU, OSU and BU to continue to recruit three stars and develop them. I then expect P2 conference schools to recruit them away through the portal. 
If you’re TCU, KSU, ISU, BU or OSU, the ideal conference situation is one where revenue is shared equally, there are hard salary caps and there are penalties for transferring. That’s what they had a few years ago.
Now, there are no penalties for transferring, players may be legally paid  and there is no salary cap. The remainder B12 schools are about to find out what it’s like to be Bolton, trying to compete with Manchester United. 

I can't imagine why anyone would think this model is alienating a huge number of college sports fans. Oh, right we're all just supposed to pick a blue blood to root for. Yeah, think I'll pass. What an idiotic sport.

[Trey3216 15,346]

30 minutes ago, SimkinsMan said:

Sounds like the Big 12 offered to absorb the Pac-10 schools, and the Pac-10 declined. Since the Pac-10 is going to get a shit media deal, I suspect the four corners schools will soon leave the Pac-10 for the Big 12. 

Yep.   The window dressing offer and decline.  The defection will happen this week.   PAC 12 got their numbers late Friday evening and they were….not good.  It’s over.  

[Not a Sock 2,313]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

SC and UCLA are still in the PAC if their regarded former commissioner Larry Scott didn’t block the 12 team playoff. Kevin Warren cleverly manipulated Scott to block it. And here we are a few later with Warren carrying away the PAC’s premier program. 
 

Why the ACC blocked the playoff is baffling. Notre Dame wanted it, and so did their TV partner ESPN. 

The Alliance got played in brutal fashion by the Big 10, the Pac tried to protect the Rose Bowl only to have the Big just out right take it. Sankey and the SEC worked to make sure that ND had a path to the playoff with the purposed 6 conference champs +6 at large. The ACC stupidly thought it had the genuine support of the Big 10 so they shot down the 12 team playoff in an attempt to force ND to join the ACC as a full member, however with both the Pac and Big 12 mortality wounded the SEC and Big 10 now control the playoffs future and thus if ND joins a conference its gonna be the Big 10. 

[Satchel 6,938]

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/1549212171661369347?s=20&t=9wD-yJzPP4IUQaSMZqDwEg