Realignment talk not going away

[Texzilla58 4,744]

They keep hammering on P12 after dark as this big advantage, yet the reason so many people say the PAC is dead is because nobody watches their games because they start too late. 

It goes both ways. How many folks are watching UW-ASU at 11pm because it’s the only live game on TV? If that game was Saturday afternoon going against SEC/b10/12 games numbers would suck.

[mdmost 43,056]

13 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Man alive. The networks are all about running games when there’s no competition. If Fox takes over the 1030 time slot, what value is the PAC to ESPN? 

Depends on the teams playing. If it's USC hosting a decent name, it will pull good ratings and trump the Pac game. If it's UCLA hosting a spare team like Illinois, the Pac game will win out. But Fox national isn't going to be broadcasting these. More like FS1/FS2. Fox national goes to locals at 9pm.

[hawkfan 60]

Yeah, you're never going to see USC vs. Ohio State/Michigan/PSU at 7PST, that's always going to be an afternoon/early evening game. 

USC vs. Iowa/Michigan State/Nebraska when both teams are having 8-4 type years might be a good spot for that game to beat out any other game in that window, but wouldn't draw huge numbers in the afternoon.

Edited July 26, 2022 by hawkfan

[Hurtlocker 2,213]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Depends on the teams playing. If it's USC hosting a decent name, it will pull good ratings and trump the Pac game. If it's UCLA hosting a spare team like Illinois, the Pac game will win out. But Fox national isn't going to be broadcasting these. More like FS1/FS2. Fox national goes to locals at 9pm.

I'd be surprised if Fox even bids on the Pac 12 now.   The LA market is bigger than Cal/Stanford, UW and Oregon's combined

[billfromlaketravis 11,536]

4 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I'd be surprised if Fox even bids on the Pac 12 now.   The LA market is bigger than Cal/Stanford, UW and Oregon's combined

It’s been widely reported that FOX has no interest in bidding on the PAC 10 media rights. 
 

ESPN probably bidding against themselves at least until August 4.

Edited July 26, 2022 by billfromlaketravis

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

But from what I sense you guys never respected us.  Just viewed us as a necessary evil. Remember it was your original big dogs that left us and we were on the side of equal revenue sharing.  We also ceded far more to you guys last go round, unnecessarily l.  That’s on deloss not you guys but in the end the landscape has changed and this was a move we had to make

Most ISU fans I knew respected OU and Texas.  Our administration undeniably respected you, and often publicly bordered on expressions of fealty.

28 minutes ago, statsman said:

Your anger is misplaced. Michigan and Ohio State would look differently at their conference mates if Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan State had all bailed out for greener pastures (and The Spartans were using their new conference as a selling point to dominate in state recruiting). You should be angry at NU, CU, Missouri and TAMU (three of whom were Big 8 members). 
The game is changing fast. It’s clear new tiers are forming in FBS (ISU should know better than anyone- you’ve lost Milton and Young to the portal, to teams with good NIL payments). Texas and OU are making sure they end up in the right one. 

I am.  Always have been.

[mdmost 43,056]

2 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I'd be surprised if Fox even bids on the Pac 12 now.   The LA market is bigger than Cal/Stanford, UW and Oregon's combined

No, I'm saying I don't see Fox national doing after 10:30 games on their national channel. Maybe FS1 or FS2. ESPN will keep the Pac 12 after dark because they need the content.

3 minutes ago, hawkfan said:

Yeah, you're never going to see USC vs. Ohio State/Michigan/PSU at 7PST, that's always going to be an afternoon/early evening game. 

USC vs. Iowa/Michigan State/Nebraska when both teams are having 8-4 type years might be a good spot for that game to beat out any other game in that window, but wouldn't draw huge numbers in the afternoon.

Personally, I'm hoping for a Big Noon where USC or UCLA have to host. 9 am west coast kickoff would bring the laughs. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, Purdue are in a different category as “leeches” than Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia and Iowa State. As a collective they consciously chose to expand to include Penn State, Nebraska, Rutgers, and Maryland in an effort to penetrate media markets, so whatever their athletic prowess, calling those schools leeches is not accurate. 

The Big 12 has inherent population and market issues among its “leeches” that the Big 10 “leeches” did not have. I don’t blame you for any frustration you might feel, but this is not an apples to apples comparison, which you’re almost certainly aware, but I still think it’s fair to also explicitly point out. 

They really aren't, and that's what pisses off Big 12 left behinds so much.  Whatever difference exists is mostly perception and/or state population.  And I get that state population matters to the TV networks, but it shouldn't mean dick when fans think about a school's contribution to a league.

The addition of Penn State was a separator.  There is no Big 12 comp for them.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

['stache 21,892]

 

[Hurtlocker 2,213]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

They really aren't, and that's what pisses off Big 12 left behinds so much.  Whatever difference exists is mostly perception and/or state population.

The addition of Penn State was a separator.  There is no Big 12 comp for them.

Yeah, the only real difference between the Big Ten non-blue bloods and the Big 12's is conference consistency and stability.  Same with the SEC's.

[hawkfan 60]

 

I would be shocked if that's not confirmation the B1G is going to 20 or 24.

[Gidnik 3,285]

 

https://lawlessrepublic.com/2022/07/25/byu-sports-big-12-announcement-finally-coming/

Quote

 

Rumors, rumors, and more rumors. That has been the extent of all the college football expansion talk the past month since UCLA and USC announced their departure to the Big 10. At times it has seemed like the Arizona schools were locks into joining. Then it looked like Oregon and Washington were headed off to the Big 10. Most recently, Stanford and Cal have emerged as candidates to join.

So what is actually going on?

Only a handful of people know, but I’ve got a good theory.

The Big 12 is making a power move. They want to look strong. For this reason, everything is being done behind closed doors with five locks and an army of security guards. What the Big 12 does not want to happen is for them to send an invitation to a team, it get turned down and then have it get out to the public.

When and if the Big 12 makes a move, they want it to look like they made one direct and strong decision, no plans B, C or D. This is especially true if a team like Oregon or Washington turn down an offer and Stanford and Cal join. Nothing would look worse than news getting out that Washington turned down the conference, and so the Big 12 settled on Cal.

In fact, all that has been said is that the Big 12 is looking for teams that will help the conference. But they haven’t expressed what that means. Does it mean market? Perhaps recent success, or maybe more of a historic program. Do Olympic sports matter? Maybe academics? The thing is, the Big 12 has left it open to interpretation. They can sell any team to the country as their first choice.

The Big 12 would want to sell Cal and Stanford (or whoever) as if they were always the plan. The Big 12 also learned in 2016 that being open about expansion can be very dangerous. The league looked very weak when they decided not to expand and were mocked nationally.

Sure, the Big 12 was very open again in 2021, but that was out of necessity. The league needed the spotlight on them and had to take risks. The spotlight was healthy, because without it, other teams would have also left.

This year, the Big 12 is in a good spot. The league is looking like the third most secure conference in the nation. Sure the ACC has a massive media deal, but that appears to be the only barrier separating them from likely losing Miami and Clemson to the SEC, despite what SEC reports say.

However, at the same time, the Big 12 is head and shoulders below the SEC and Big 10, and they know it. While no addition will put them at the same level of the two, a strong and bold statement about any additions will help to put the Big 12 squarely at the big boys table, even if with a toddler chair.

That is why nothing is coming out. And that is why nothing will come out until there is a sudden surprise announcement, similar to what UCLA and USC did.

[bullet 1,599]

51 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

It looks like the Big Ten is coming for that sweet 10:30 time-slot.

Interesting.  The Pac 12 has been trying to reduce the number of games played in that time slot.  I guess that was part of the USC/UCLA full share deal, to regularly play night games.

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

3 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

🤡

 

I love my wife. I would never cheat on her. She’s prettier than I am, funny, fun to be with, a good mom, indulges my nonsense and is the reason why this board knows the term, fuck tent. 
I make good money,  knock out all the honey do’s, respect her, treat her well, take care of the kids, treat her as a full partner in life and she doesn’t work. Solid, awesome, stable marriage. 
If, instead of being Surly fat I looked like Brad Pitt and had some dime pieces throwing themselves at me looking for random and indiscriminant sex I believe our marriage would be far less stable. 
Congrats to all the irate 8- the big 12 is not the best, but it’s the best that y’all can do. 
As you are finding out now there is a real power in that. 
note- I wouldn’t change my marriage for the world. I’m happy and content. But if a magic wand got waved and I looked like Brad Pitt it would change overnight. That’s just reality. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

12 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah, the only real difference between the Big Ten non-blue bloods and the Big 12's is conference consistency and stability.  Same with the SEC's.

Stability has a lot more to do with the power brokers than the non-blue bloods too.

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

9 minutes ago, hawkfan said:

 

I would be shocked if that's not confirmation the B1G is going to 20 or 24.

It's a full court press to get Notre Dame, or UNC/UVA out of an ACC GOR.

No one in the Pac 10 or Big 12 will be part of this, or they'd be there.

[bullet 1,599]

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

 

The 100 billion dollars isn't significant.

Its the plural on members.  That means at least two partners other than the mouse joining with Fox.

[Francisco 2.0 32,431]

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Interesting.

 

New family "members" in the media partner list.  Plural.

So, Fox and....Amazon?  Apple?  Google/Youtube?  CBS?  NBC?

Shit, they might be looking at $1.5 billion a year to divide up.

 

 

[cochamps 1,879]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Stability has a lot more to do with the power brokers than the non-blue bloods too.

Duh, the non-blue bloods have fewer options.  Of course they seek stability.

[bullet 1,599]

5 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Interesting.

 

New family "members" in the media partner list.  Plural.

So, Fox and....Amazon?  Apple?  Google/Youtube?  CBS?  NBC?

Shit, they might be looking at $1.5 billion a year to divide up.

 

 

Brett McMurphy is quoting Warren as saying they will be in 4 time zones in 2024.  Colorado or the Arizona schools???

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's a full court press to get Notre Dame, or UNC/UVA out of an ACC GOR.

No one in the Pac 10 or Big 12 will be part of this, or they'd be there.

It’s possible the big 10 takes a wait and see approach on UW and Oregon and adds them later if it makes sense. Same for Stanford.  But yeah, those are the only 3 schools in the leftover 22 that have any chance of leveling up. To the B1G. 
mid I could wave a magic wand and start from zero I’d have a 16 team leftover conference of:

Washington, Oregon, Boise, Utah, Byu, Stanford, 

Arizona, Arizona State, San Diego State, Tech, Ok State, Cincinnati, Kansas, Iowa State, TCU and Houston. 
that leaves out Baylor, WVU, and Kansas State from the irate 8. That leaves out Cal, Wassu, OSU, Colorado from the current leftover 10. That adds BYU, UH. and SDSU. 
If Stanford is too uppity to deal with that then I guess I’d extend the last invite to West Virginia if they wanted it. Wouldn’t see why they would geographically. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

Just now, cochamps said:

Duh, the non-blue bloods have fewer options.  Of course they seek stability.

That's my point:  the non-blue bloods in the Big 10 have stability because it was given to them by their blue bloods.  It wasn't something they earned or had the foresight to secure.  They just got lucky that the powers that be in their league liked that position and stayed committed to it, which in turn made them much wealthier.

[Sbbruin 21,898]

14 minutes ago, bullet said:

Interesting.  The Pac 12 has been trying to reduce the number of games played in that time slot.  I guess that was part of the USC/UCLA full share deal, to regularly play night games.

Fuck me.  Night games are the worst.

[Francisco 2.0 32,431]

1 minute ago, bullet said:

Brett McMurphy is quoting Warren as saying they will be in 4 time zones in 2024.  Colorado or the Arizona schools???

 

Doesn't make sense.  Utah however....

 

 

 

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

3 minutes ago, bullet said:

Brett McMurphy is quoting Warren as saying they will be in 4 time zones in 2024.  Colorado or the Arizona schools???

1/3rd of Nebraska is in the Mountain.  Big 10 is already in 3 time zones.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[closetohumping 17,476]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

1/3rd of Nebraska is in the Mountain.  Big 10 is already in 3 time zones.

It's not the good 1/3 right? There's probably 58 people in that third.

[statsman 5,486]

Look, OSU, KSU and Baylor are not like Indiana or Pursue. OSU fully engaged in the ‘80s bidding wars for recruits, and since then has been more than delighted to pick up miscreants with talent. 
KSU made their school a JC-plus, and created a model of scheduling that has crippled the league’s media value. 
Baylor? We don’t have to get into that, do we?

Michigan hasn’t won a MNC since 1997. How would they feel about Indiana if the Hoosier coach voted the Buckeyes five places over them, after the Wolverines had beaten the Vuckeyes by double digits…just because the Hoosiers didn’t want Michigan getting too big. Because, that’s what OSU, BU and TT did (yes, TT was fine voting OU higher, but not five places higher to make sure the vote “took”). Fuck all those schools, forever. 
ISU? Chizik voted Texas over OU, by a spot. They’re ok. I feel bad about leaving them in the lurch. Not the others. 

[hawkfan 60]

9 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's a full court press to get Notre Dame, or UNC/UVA out of an ACC GOR.

No one in the Pac 10 or Big 12 will be part of this, or they'd be there.

That isn't aggressive.

I still believe USC/UCLA need travel partners for this work smoothly for them long term.  Stanford/Oregon/Washington make sense, but not without ND, that gets you to 20.

Farther down the road, UNC/UVA/GT/Miami would give the B1G a strong southern footprint if he wants to be aggressive.

It's becoming apparent to me this is going to end with 3 conferences that eventually just break away from the NCAA - the SEC, the B1G, and the left behinds that will be in a third national conference paid a lot less.

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

It's not the good 1/3 right? There's probably 58 people in that third.

There's no "good 1/3" of Nebraska.

I'm just saying that the Big 10 already has schools representing 3 time zones, and just the UCLA/USC additions would give them 4.

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

1 minute ago, hawkfan said:

That isn't aggressive.

I still believe USC/UCLA need travel partners for this work smoothly for them long term.  Stanford/Oregon/Washington make sense, but not without ND, that gets you to 20.

Farther down the road, UNC/UVA/GT/Miami would give the B1G a strong southern footprint if he wants to be aggressive.

It's becoming apparent to me this is going to end with 3 conferences that eventually just break away from the NCAA - the SEC, the B1G, and the left behinds that will be in a third national conference paid a lot less.

This is logical, but I can't get past the idea that if the Big 10 wanted any more west coast teams, they'd have just taken them already.

I believe the Big 10 wants to add more.  They absolutely want Notre Dame - it's no secret.  I think Warren's going to pursue them as aggressively as possible.  Outside of that, a handful of southern schools (that you listed fit that bill).

Not sure how putting the press on ND and trying to bust up the ACC isn't aggressive.

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

Look, OSU, KSU and Baylor are not like Indiana or Pursue. OSU fully engaged in the ‘80s bidding wars for recruits, and since then has been more than delighted to pick up miscreants with talent. 
KSU made their school a JC-plus, and created a model of scheduling that has crippled the league’s media value. 
Baylor? We don’t have to get into that, do we?

Michigan hasn’t won a MNC since 1997. How would they feel about Indiana if the Hoosier coach voted the Buckeyes five places over them, after the Wolverines had beaten the Vuckeyes by double digits…just because the Hoosiers didn’t want Michigan getting too big. Because, that’s what OSU, BU and TT did (yes, TT was fine voting OU higher, but not five places higher to make sure the vote “took”). Fuck all those schools, forever. 
ISU? Chizik voted Texas over OU, by a spot. They’re ok. I feel bad about leaving them in the lurch. Not the others. 

Michigan State and Penn State are as disgusting as Baylor.

[camel at sea 589]

One solution to the PAC situation would be to let the Four Corners leave (or push them out) and then add four G5s that won't complain about unequal distribution.  

PAC North schools + SDSU, Colorado State is relatively easy.  Those add markets and good-enough academics.  Assuming they want to go to 10, then it gets tricky.  Boise has the media value but not the academic clout.  Fresno might have some CA state politics help.  Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, and Hawaii are state flagships and easier for the PAC to stomach.  SMU could plant a flag in Texas, has a decent athletics brand, and is a US News Top 100 school.  

My guess is that they could figure out how to raid the MWC/AAC and make it work.  

End result of this would be FOX gets its late night games via the B1G/B12, Disney keeps PAC after Dark and the remaining valuable PAC brands, and the Oregon/Washington/Stanford group might end up making more money individiually than anyone in the Big 12 due to unequal revenue distribution.    

 

[hawkfan 60]

It won't stop at 18 is what I'm saying, that much seems very clear.

And my working thesis is they won't leave USC/UCLA on that big of an island, that just doesn't function well - but Oregon/Stanford/Washington don't make financial sense until they've gotten a yes from ND, that's the main reason they haven't gotten the invite yet IMO.  The initial reports were that the B1G was waiting on ND before any further expansion because they probably needed the domers for the math to work at 20.

In order for the math to work at 24, I think 2 things would be required:

1.  P12 and ACC contracts go to zero (freeing up $1B+ in network cash), while the B1G/SEC have a monopoly on the prime content.

2.  Conference play goes to 11 games to get rid of most of the FCS/G5 games so the inventory is more valuable.

Just my guess, but I think the math would work at 24 with those 2 assumptions.

[statsman 5,486]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Michigan State and Penn State are as disgusting as Baylor.

But they pull their weight, revenue-wise, in ways Baylor doesn’t. Mich State and PSU are more akin to Auburn and Tennessee. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by statsman

[Satchel 6,949]

19 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s possible the big 10 takes a wait and see approach on UW and Oregon and adds them later if it makes sense. Same for Stanford.  But yeah, those are the only 3 schools in the leftover 22 that have any chance of leveling up. To the B1G. 
mid I could wave a magic wand and start from zero I’d have a 16 team leftover conference of:

Washington, Oregon, Boise, Utah, Byu, Stanford, 

Arizona, Arizona State, San Diego State, Tech, Ok State, Cincinnati, Kansas, Iowa State, TCU and Houston. 
that leaves out Baylor, WVU, and Kansas State from the irate 8. That leaves out Cal, Wassu, OSU, Colorado from the current leftover 10. That adds BYU, UH. and SDSU. 
If Stanford is too uppity to deal with that then I guess I’d extend the last invite to West Virginia if they wanted it. Wouldn’t see why they would geographically. 

Lots of money can make you less uppity. Texas joined the Maga Conference.

[Saint Austin 745]

17 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Lots of money can make you less uppity. Texas joined the Maga Conference.

Did you forget what states make up the current Big 12? Not exactly a liberal paradise.

[bullet 1,599]

38 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

It's not the good 1/3 right? There's probably 58 people in that third.

Nah.  There's at least 158.

But Lincoln is not in the MTZ.

[SL Xpress 7,518]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

They really aren't, and that's what pisses off Big 12 left behinds so much.  Whatever difference exists is mostly perception and/or state population.  And I get that state population matters to the TV networks, but it shouldn't mean dick when fans think about a school's contribution to a league.

The addition of Penn State was a separator.  There is no Big 12 comp for them.

 

I guess. I think you're being naive. If the ONLY difference is perception and market population, isn't that enough? What else is there? How about desirability of locales? Academic reputations? Sizes of enrollments and alumni bases? Size of football stadiums? Average attendance? Athletic department budgets?

Compare Ames, Manhattan, Stillwater, Waco, Lubbock, Morgantown with Madison, St. Paul/Minneapolis, Chicago, Bloomington, Champaign. All of the Big 10 schools were top research institutions. Which doesn't matter to a lot of people, but it's a big deal to UT. The fact is UT has a lot more in common with the Big 10 leeches than the Big 12 leeches. The Big 10 wasn't an option, so they went with the SEC. I guess you're being sincere in thinking there's not a lot of difference between the bottom 8 schools in the original Big 10, as you're putting it, and the bottom 8 schools in the Big 12, but to me there's a huge difference. I'm shocked you don't think so. 

[Satchel 6,949]

1 minute ago, Saint Austin said:

Did you forget what states make up the current Big 12? Not exactly a liberal paradise.

Very true. But you can’t be any more uppity consorting with MSU than you can with Tech, can you?

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

Just now, SL Xpress said:

 

I guess. I think you're being naive. If the ONLY difference is perception and market population, isn't that enough? What else is there? How about desirability of locales? Academic reputations? Sizes of enrollments and alumni bases? Size of football stadiums? Average attendance? Athletic department budgets?

Compare Ames, Manhattan, Stillwater, Waco, Lubbock, Morgantown with Madison, St. Paul/Minneapolis, Chicago, Bloomington, Champaign. All of the Big 10 schools were top research institutions. Which doesn't matter to a lot of people, but it's a big deal to UT. The fact is UT has a lot more in common with the Big 10 leeches than the Big 12 leeches. The Big 10 wasn't an option, so they went with the SEC. I guess you're being sincere in thinking there's not a lot of difference between the bottom 8 schools in the original Big 10, as you're putting it, and the bottom 8 schools in the Big 12, but to me there's a huge difference. I'm shocked you don't think so. 

Size of stadium and average attendance, the Big 12 is neck and freaking neck.  Jack Trice holds 11K more people than Minnesota's stadium does.

I acknowledge that market population was a big deal to the TV people.  I don't get why it causes a difference in fan perception.  Iowa State has outdrawn Minnesota, Purdue, NW, Illinois, Indiana for years.  Same with TTU, KSU, OK State, and WVU.

[hawkfan 60]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Size of stadium and average attendance, the Big 12 is neck and freaking neck. 

Ummmm......No:

https://www.on3.com/news/college-football-continues-attendance-slide-seventh-straight-season-sec-big-ten-big-12-pac-12-acc/

The B1G's 2021 average attendance was almost 20% higher than the B12's.  The gap from the P12/ACC to the B12 is larger as the gap from the B12 to the B1G, but the B12 is pretty clearly in 3rd place by itself in "conference attendance battles", if that matters for whatever reason.

[statsman 5,486]

Att

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Size of stadium and average attendance, the Big 12 is neck and freaking neck.  Jack Trice holds 11K more people than Minnesota's stadium does.

I acknowledge that market population was a big deal to the TV people.  I don't get why it causes a difference in fan perception.  Iowa State has outdrawn Minnesota, Purdue, NW, Illinois, Indiana for years.  Same with TTU, KSU, OK State, and WVU.

Attendance, alone, is not a direct indication of market size and fanbase enthusiasm. It is an indirect one. (For one thing, people attending the game are not watching it on TV).
A better indirect indication is Attendance  times average ticket price (or gate). If people are paying through the nose to get into the stadium, you know for certain there are a lot of people watching at home, that couldn’t pay. That’s where the TCUs and Baylor’s fall behind. It’s cheap to get into their games (when they’re not playing Texas). 

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

This really all just comes back to some kind "you're just a podunk cow college" bullshit.  

I've used the analogy of kids building tree forts.  You can't be in our club cause nanana booboo.  That's what this feels like to the schools left out.  You're adequately sized stadiums and passionate fanbases don't matter cause you're from gross towns (that we've never been to but know are gross) or whatever.

3 minutes ago, hawkfan said:

Ummmm......No:

https://www.on3.com/news/college-football-continues-attendance-slide-seventh-straight-season-sec-big-ten-big-12-pac-12-acc/

The B1G's 2021 average attendance was almost 20% higher than the B12's.  The gap from the P12/ACC to the B12 is larger as the gap from the B12 to the B1G, but the B12 is pretty clearly in 3rd place by itself in "conference attendance battles", if that matters for whatever reason.

Talking about the bottom half of the leagues.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[Trey3216 15,373]

22 hours ago, 'stache said:

A Friday night without competition. And doesn't the PAC's irrelevance in the playoff just underscore that it's a damaged league? Regardless, taking all of your qualifications into account, it wasn't close. OSU-BU doubled the PAC, that's 4 million extra viewers. That can't be explained away by the day of the week and what may have been on the line. Not to mention, again, that the Big XII title game featured two teams that supposedly don't matter while the PAC game still had one of its "marquee" programs participating. One might forgive the ACC's poor rating based on its strange participants, but not the PAC.

Primetime Friday night vs 11am on Saturday as well.   

[SL Xpress 7,518]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Size of stadium and average attendance, the Big 12 is neck and freaking neck.  Jack Trice holds 11K more people than Minnesota's stadium does.

I acknowledge that market population was a big deal to the TV people.  I don't get why it causes a difference in fan perception.  Iowa State has outdrawn Minnesota, Purdue, NW, Illinois, Indiana for years.  Same with TTU, KSU, OK State, and WVU.

 

Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Iowa all average 10k more than any other Big 12 school other than OU/TX. 

The Big 10 has some dogshit football programs. No doubt. But they're not getting kicked out. Ever. So it is what it is. They're still better schools to be affiliated with and better destinations to travel to than Lubbock, Manhattan, Stillwater, and Morgantown. Minnesota, Illinois, and Indiana are also the flagship schools of their state, and Northwestern is Northwestern. 

It's not the same. I realize now you're never going to see it that way.  Iowa State is in an unfortunate situation, but it's not UT's fault it's this way. UT wants to be with other schools who have gigantic athletic budgets, big stadiums, with large attendance virtually across the board. Ohio State and Michigan sticking with the other 8 schools was not ever the equivalent of UT/OU being affiliated with the Big 12.

A better example would be OU/Nebraska holding up the Big 8, but that was truly a disaster in the making. Without the addition of Texas and Texas A&M the Big 8 was going to be carved apart like a Christmas turkey faster than actually occurred. 

And Oklahoma State is an outlier due to Pickens' donations. If not for his massive infusion of cash into the athletic department no way do they make the progress they've made in football. Their stadium was an erector set before he changed the dynamics. 

[nunna yo bizness 1,687]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

Brett McMurphy is quoting Warren as saying they will be in 4 time zones in 2024.  Colorado or the Arizona schools???

University of Alaska Fairbanks.  The fighting Nanooks.

[SL Xpress 7,518]

6 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This really all just comes back to some kind "you're just a podunk cow college" bullshit.  

I've used the analogy of kids building tree forts.  You can't be in our club cause nanana booboo.  That's what this feels like to the schools left out.  You're adequately sized stadiums and passionate fanbases don't matter cause you're from gross towns (that we've never been to but know are gross) or whatever.

Talking about the bottom half of the leagues.

 

But why come on here and tilt at windmills if that bothers you? Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I felt that way about the Southwest Conference once the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA negotiating TV contracts. What were we doing being affiliated with a bunch of small enrollment private schools, regional colleges, and a commuter school? I was ecstatic about the Big 12 because it was an alternative to the loathed SEC. But after Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri left, it was back to the same thing again. TCU and West Virginia were shitty, desperate additions. I have no desire to have a conference affiliation with TCU. What good does that do UT? We don't want competition in the DFW market. The whole thing was stupid. That's a big part of why we got out of the SWC in the first place. And West Virginia does nothing for me. 

I'm so happy to be getting out of this conference. I would have preferred the B1G, because I absolutely hate the cult worshipping SEC, but compared to the Big 12 it's heaven. The fact we're going to be able to do it this time without dragging along a couple of bloodsuckers is a huge bonus. Thanks Chairman Eltife. 

[closetohumping 17,476]

1 minute ago, SL Xpress said:

 

But why come on here and tilt at windmills if that bothers you? Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I felt that way about the Southwest Conference once the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA negotiating TV contracts. What were we doing being affiliated with a bunch of small enrollment private schools, regional colleges, and a commuter school? I was ecstatic about the Big 12 because it was an alternative to the loathed SEC. But after Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri left, it was back to the same thing again. TCU and West Virginia were shitty, desperate additions. I have no desire to have a conference affiliation with TCU. What good does that do UT? We don't want competition in the DFW market. The whole thing was stupid. That's a big part of why we got out of the SWC in the first place. And West Virginia does nothing for me. 

I'm so happy to be getting out of this conference. I would have preferred the B1G, because I absolutely hate the cult worshipping SEC, but compared to the Big 12 it's heaven. The fact we're going to be able to do it this time without dragging along a couple of bloodsuckers is a huge bonus. Thanks Chairman Eltife. 

The thing that gets me is every conference, including us, talked about travel costs as a reason to not expand and yet WVA has apparently made it work.

[Al_4_ISU 12,502]

 
But why come on here and tilt at windmills if that bothers you? Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I felt that way about the Southwest Conference once the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA negotiating TV contracts. What were we doing being affiliated with a bunch of small enrollment private schools, regional colleges, and a commuter school? I was ecstatic about the Big 12 because it was an alternative to the loathed SEC. But after Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri left, it was back to the same thing again. TCU and West Virginia were shitty, desperate additions. I have no desire to have a conference affiliation with TCU. What good does that do UT? We don't want competition in the DFW market. The whole thing was stupid. That's a big part of why we got out of the SWC in the first place. And West Virginia does nothing for me. 
I'm so happy to be getting out of this conference. I would have preferred the B1G, because I absolutely hate the cult worshipping SEC, but compared to the Big 12 it's heaven. The fact we're going to be able to do it this time without dragging along a couple of bloodsuckers is a huge bonus. Thanks Chairman Eltife. 

I guess I’m blowing off steam because I’m enraged at how we’ve done absolutely everything you’re supposed to do and doesn’t matter. We got way better. We’re top 30 in attendance and rating. We have a legitimate stadium and legitimate program and it doesn’t fucking matter because we were born on the wrong side of the tracks and sucked 30 years ago. Subjective elitist bullshit trumping meritocracy generally triggers its targets.

[statsman 5,486]

ISU is trying to stay n the right tier for them. 
So is Texas. What we have noticed, and the rest of the B12 refuses to acknowledge, is that there is a new top tier. It’s not the P5 schools anymore. NIL has changed all of that. That’s why Tarique Milton transferred to Texas for his final year, to a program that has had less success than the one he left (even head to head). That’s why two star ISU safeties have portaled out, to Ol Miss and Duke. Milton will get at least $100k at Texas. I assume the Ol Miss safety (Ysheen Young?) will get similar. (I assume Ol Miss portal RB, Zach Evans, from TCU, will get similar). 
I’m stealing a Tahoe Horn line- “College football is a professional sport now. Some programs can’t go professional, like Oregon State. Others won’t go professional, like Stanford.”

You want the B12 to be in the top tier? You need all the teams to be able to charge $100 for each game day ticket and for the scholarship guys to get at least $50k each per year in NIL. Otherwise, you’re in the junior division. 
Texas didn’t make the rules, but luckily it had the resources to do ok by them.