Realignment talk not going away

[Chopper 17230]

16 hours ago, camel at sea said:

I think most casual fans recognize BYU's helmet right away when they see it on the TV screen.

Have to disagree with you there. The initial reaction 99% of people have upon seeing the BYU helmet is 100% "I didn't know Yahoo had a university with a football team."

edit to add what happens next: They see BYU on the scoreboard and then change the channel.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Chopper

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

I don't get the BYU hate. If all the moms look like Zach Wilson's, the Irate8 should welcome them with open arms. 

UCF is by far the worst addition. Basically a giant junior college masquerading as a directional state school. 

[FartingDreamer 138]

10 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I don't get the BYU hate. If all the moms look like Zach Wilson's, the Irate8 should welcome them with open arms. 

UCF is by far the worst addition. Basically a giant junior college masquerading as a directional state school. 

But elevate that school to the P5 in one of the top hotbed states for football talent, and you have sort of a sleeping giant.   They've already shown they could compete at the top as a G5 by beating Auburn and nearly beating LSU a few years ago, but with improved recruiting, that program could rival Miami, FSU and Florida to a degree.  I think both them and Houston are in the same "sleeping giant" boat due to their locations.  

[camel at sea 589]

6 hours ago, LTbear said:

As a fan, Utah is one of the teams I'd most enjoy seeing join the Big XII (regionality and rivalries is essentially all I care about). But ya, that BYU is already here may make it a bit more precarious for them. I don't know enough Utah fans to have a sense, but I wonder if there's also some aversion to "following" BYU anywhere.

Yeah, no doubt.  As a fan, it would be a lot of fun.  Utah-BYU as a rivalry game would be great for the conference... but Utah vs. just about anyone in the Big 12 would be fun.  Utah and most of the new Big 12 are punch-above-their-weight programs that actually care about winning.  I'd watch the heck out of Mike Gundy visiting Salt Lake City for a late kick on Saturday night.  My guess is that with no blue blood at the top of the heap, tamping down realistic expectations, that whole group of schools would/will get even more competitive. 

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

20 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

But elevate that school to the P5 in one of the top hotbed states for football talent, and you have sort of a sleeping giant.   They've already shown they could compete at the top as a G5 by beating Auburn and nearly beating LSU a few years ago, but with improved recruiting, that program could rival Miami, FSU and Florida to a degree.  I think both them and Houston are in the same "sleeping giant" boat due to their locations.  

Don't step on aggy's sleeping giant corner. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

The Big 12 really fucked up by letting in UH and UCF- BYU and Cincy were good adds at any time imo. 
Ideal conference #3 behind big 12 and SEC (assuming they carve up what’s valuable out of the ACC and ND and go to 20 schools each)

Washington, Oregon, Boise, AZ, ASU, San Diego State, Utah, BYU, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Tech, TCU, Baylor, Cincy, West Virginia

pods of 4: Tech, OSU, TCU, Baylor 

Washington, Oregon, Boise, Utah;

BYU, SDSU, AZ & ASU; 

WVU, ISU, Kansas, Cincy. 
 

Pacific NW, SoCal and AZ for the recruiting, OsU paired with Texas schools and Kansas as flagship school in a not insignificant state and hoops royalty. The last pod is sort of the closest those

schools can get. 
 

those are all schools that are either flagship schools of states that aren’t completely insignificant, really good football programs or just an are you need to be in if you have that many teams out west (Southern California). 
fuck Stanford and Cal- they don’t care about sports and are not socially or culturally aligned with what you want in an athletic department peer. Their place is in the big 10 if they will have them or not competing in football bc it’s beneath them. 

[Valmy77 13226]

UCF and Houston will always be pretty good programs because of where they are, but they have a ton of other D1 programs in their states, and plenty from out of state, to compete with. I have a hard time seeing either ever becoming the place to go in Florida or Texas. They are high floor, low ceiling programs.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

Right now UCF has the recruiting class with highest per player rating in the new B12 just ahead of Baylor. They only have 9 commits right now so that may change, but they should be just fine.

Edited August 7, 2022 by SimonBolivar

[camel at sea 589]

2 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

UCF and Houston will always be pretty good programs because of where they are, but they have a ton of other D1 programs in their states, and plenty from out of state, to compete with. I have a hard time seeing either ever becoming the place to go in Florida or Texas. They are high floor, low ceiling programs.

Houston and UCF are both additions that can win the Big 12 from time to time in football.  They probably won't ever recruit Top 10 classes or legitimately compete for national titles.  So their ceilings are pretty similar to the ceilings at Baylor and Oklahoma State.  BYU and Cincinnati are pretty much the same.

The Big 12's brand is going to be built around its parity and its competitiveness in football and their elite play on the basketball court.  I think their additions mostly fit well.

[camel at sea 589]

3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Right now UCF has the recruiting class with highest per play rating in the new B12 just ahead of Baylor. They only have 9 commits right now so that may change, but they should be just fine.

UCF will be an interesting Big 12 program.  They've got the resources to win big in the Big 12. And if the status quo mostly holds, they're going to be making similar media money as FSU and Miami.  

[bullet 1596]

18 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

The only people that know BYU won a national championship in 1984 are BYU fans and college football almanac nerds.  
 

 

Some of us are old enough to remember it.

And not too old to have forgotten!

Hey.  I even remember sitting down and watching the Big Shootout.

 

[bullet 1596]

17 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

I think that former executive has shown to be a little biased toward the PAC in his responses. When looking at history, I think it does come into play. It's just one of many variables. I think ESPN's bottom line was hurt during realignment chaos over a decade ago. As much as they want these moves, in the sort term it hurts their bottom line. No company likes that much chaos/surprises in the middle of a contract. The networks want to eventually get all this realignment out of the way to create stable conferences in the future. Like-minded athletic programs playing against like-minded programs  Looking at more than just a short period of success when expanding is one factor in creating that stability. 

Although if you are talking the last decade, most of the Pac has stunk.

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

U of H won 12 games last year. The Texans won 4. Who do you think dominated Houston's attention? 

It should improve in the Big 12, but this state goes full SEC the second Texas enters the conference. 

U of H as a sleeping giant is like me having sex with Ana de Armas. It's technically possible because we're both alive at the same time, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by billfromlaketravis

[notre dame joe 187]

6 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The BCS formula and computers have calculated the same 4 teams as the committee every year since the inception of the playoff. 

Where do you find it nowadays? 

To answer his question, they don't use computers because computers don't have an 'eye test.'

 

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I don't get the BYU hate. If all the moms look like Zach Wilson's, the Irate8 should welcome them with open arms. 

UCF is by far the worst addition. Basically a giant junior college masquerading as a directional state school. 

It is an island in the Big12.  We don't know if it's the chicken or the egg but we do know that no conference that takes a WVU or Miami on a remote island is sustainable. 

[bullet 1596]

6 hours ago, LTbear said:

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind Boise. They've built a semi-intense and usually fun rivalry with BYU. They're also closer to me than any other existing or potential Big XII team (though still 7+ hours away).

I'm not convinced in 20 years Boise isn't Rice without the market, the academics or the MOB.

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

The entire state of Idaho = smaller than the San Antonio TV market. Boise is a fun team, but limited in every single aspect as a program. 

[bullet 1596]

34 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

UCF and Houston will always be pretty good programs because of where they are, but they have a ton of other D1 programs in their states, and plenty from out of state, to compete with. I have a hard time seeing either ever becoming the place to go in Florida or Texas. They are high floor, low ceiling programs.

Well we know what UH is from their time in the SWC.  They will mostly be competitive and top half of the P5.  But they aren't going to do what FSU did.  They are a sleeping slightly taller than average person.  Not a giant.

[bullet 1596]

8 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Where do you find it nowadays? 

To answer his question, they don't use computers because computers don't have an 'eye test.'

 

It is an island in the Big12.  We don't know if it's the chicken or the egg but we do know that no conference that takes a WVU or Miami on a remote island is sustainable. 

So what is your prediction for the B$G 10?

[Not a Sock 2313]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

U of H won 12 games last year. The Texans won 4. Who do you think dominated Houston's attention? 

It should improve in the Big 12, but this state goes full SEC the second Texas enters the conference. 

U of H as a sleeping giant is like me having sex with Ana de Armas. It's technically possible because we're both alive at the same time, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. 

This is missing the point completely, the Big 12 isn’t competing with the SEC, Texas plays at 7pm and A&M plays at 3:30.  But I would absolutely tune into watch a 10-2 UH play 10-2 OSU at 11 am while I do chores around the house.

[Valmy77 13226]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

Houston and UCF are both additions that can win the Big 12 from time to time in football.  They probably won't ever recruit Top 10 classes or legitimately compete for national titles.  So their ceilings are pretty similar to the ceilings at Baylor and Oklahoma State.  BYU and Cincinnati are pretty much the same.

The Big 12's brand is going to be built around its parity and its competitiveness in football and their elite play on the basketball court.  I think their additions mostly fit well.

Oh I agree. They are good and will compete but they aren't sleeping giants with some secret potential. They are, and will be, what they have always been.

[thunderlounge 7825]

Yes. Cunts. 

[notre dame joe 187]

3 hours ago, bullet said:

So what is your prediction for the B$G 10?

I will make the bold prediction, that in 2032 the BigInteger will not be the 16 or however many they have now. 

[Hagbard Celine 10859]

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Basically a giant junior college masquerading as a directional state school. 

like aggy

[FartingDreamer 138]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Oh I agree. They are good and will compete but they aren't sleeping giants with some secret potential. They are, and will be, what they have always been.

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

[Okie State 3818]

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

You must not be following along. We're not considered P5 anymore. Bad timing for you all.

[FartingDreamer 138]

Just now, Okie State said:

2 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

You must not be following along. We're not considered P5 anymore. Bad timing for you all.

Ok, P3 or P4, whatever the consolidated conference landscape will be.  

[Valmy77 13226]

5 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

Yes. You don't understand just how few shits Houston cares about college football and the extent that it does it is about A&M and UT. There is not going to be this big explosion of players excited to play for Houston just because they are P5. We already saw this play out in the 1970s and 1980s.

[Steel Shank 9424]

Sounds like I need to run down to Htown and lay some pipe.

[BevoSwag 272]

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

U of H won 12 games last year. The Texans won 4. Who do you think dominated Houston's attention? 

It should improve in the Big 12, but this state goes full SEC the second Texas enters the conference. 

U of H as a sleeping giant is like me having sex with Ana de Armas. It's technically possible because we're both alive at the same time, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. 

It certainly wasn't the UH.  The pros ran NCAA football out of Houston.  

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

47 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

Tell me you don’t live in Houston without telling me you don’t live in Houston. 
 

Other than camel at sea, and Matt Thomas nobody gives a shit about U of H. 

[billfromlaketravis 11466]

1 minute ago, BevoSwag said:

It certainly wasn't the UH.  The pros ran NCAA football out of Houston.  

Disagree. LSU, Bama, Texas, and aggy bars are packed on gameday. 

[BevoSwag 272]

2 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Disagree. LSU, Bama, Texas, and aggy bars are packed on gameday. 

True but not Bama unless they are playing the three others you mentioned.  Bars only count as one or two or three viewers.  It's the folks that stay at home that count.  The City of Houston is like a lot of Texas.  They only watch winners.  Texans attendance has been dwindling but UH never set any records other than Bill Yoeman days.

[Hurtlocker 2212]

2 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

Not sure about Houston, but UCF has been on a recruiting tear lately.    They're not Bama, but they're starting to get kids they couldn't sniff before.

Also, don't sniff kids unless they're your own.   It's not appropriate.

[Valmy77 13226]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Disagree. LSU, Bama, Texas, and aggy bars are packed on gameday. 

I mean that is true in NYC as well. There are bars the local grads for the different schools to gather to watch the games but the city only cares about pro sports.

[Texzilla58 4735]

It certainly wasn't the UH.  The pros ran NCAA football out of Houston.  

Houston didnt support the Coogs when they were in the glory days of the run and shoot. They’d pull less than 10k to play inside.

The oilers didn’t do much better and often didn’t sell out playoff games.

[Hurtlocker 2212]

17 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I mean that is true in NYC as well. There are bars the local grads for the different schools to gather to watch the games but the city only cares about pro sports.

That's basically all big cities.  But, you'd figure in a town of 7m people they could get 50k people to give a shit, hell start with 30k.   Don't they have a marketing program they could practice with?

[Valmy77 13226]

3 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

That's basically all big cities.  But, you'd figure in a town of 7m people they could get 50k people to give a shit, hell start with 30k.   Don't they have a marketing program they could practice with?

Even if they only attracted UH alumni they could easily do that. But they can't. The grads don't really care.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Valmy77

[Hurtlocker 2212]

1 minute ago, Valmy77 said:

Even if they only attracted UH alumni they could easily do that. But they can't. The grads don't really care.

[Valmy77 13226]

14 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

The oilers didn’t do much better and often didn’t sell out playoff games.

Really? I thought the city was crazy in love with the Oilers until they decided to leave and everybody stopped showing up.

[David Dennison 18856]

19 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Houston didnt support the Coogs when they were in the glory days of the run and shoot. They’d pull less than 10k to play inside.

The oilers didn’t do much better and often didn’t sell out playoff games.

You're gonna have to come with some receipts on this one, because I don't remember that.

[statsman 5461]

2 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

You mean, like when UH joined the SWC in the mid ‘70s?

[Not a Sock 2313]

Y’all really seem to missing the point with the future Big 12, they can not compete with the SEC or Big 10, nobody can. But the Big 12 will have interesting and fun football, they will never be able to compete with things like Texas vs Bama or USC vs OSU, but 5-0 UCF vs 4-0 OKstate  is going to be a lot more interesting than 2-3 Mizzou vs 3-1 Scar or 0-4 Illinois vs 2-3 Maryland. They aren’t competing with that top end of the Big 2 they are competing with the 3rd and 4th rate programs. 

[camel at sea 589]

3 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Tell me you don’t live in Houston without telling me you don’t live in Houston. 
 

Other than camel at sea, and Matt Thomas nobody gives a shit about U of H. 

Not exactly sure why I'm getting a shout-out here.  

My take on UH is that they'll be a competitive Big 12 football program, that they'll draw better at the gate against better opponents (like... consistently filling up TDECU), and that they've got a shot to elevate their men's basketball program up another level.  When Herman was there, they did pretty well on TV, locally, but they haven't replicated those numbers since.    

[camel at sea 589]

4 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

Nobody in the Big 12 is going to be making enough media rights money to have a shot at being a "giant."  In UH's case, they probably need like 20 straight years of consistently competing for a conference title / expanded playoff spot to draw the donor/ticket/suite money they'd need to compete at a more elite level.  

[Hurtlocker 2212]

6 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Nobody in the Big 12 is going to be making enough media rights money to have a shot at being a "giant."  In UH's case, they probably need like 20 straight years of consistently competing for a conference title / expanded playoff spot to draw the donor/ticket/suite money they'd need to compete at a more elite level.  

To be fair, that's kind of what most of the Big 12 needs now, is consistency for a decade or so.   If someone in their can steal a natty along the way it will help.   Its not about this media deal, or the one in 2030 (because I doubt they'll sign a long one).   Its about the one in 2035, right before the ACC's is due.

That's where they need to be focused and to do that they need schools playing their best ball.

[Steel Shank 9424]

Also, that Frittata dude can go fuck himself.

[bullet 1596]

12 hours ago, David Dennison said:

You're gonna have to come with some receipts on this one, because I don't remember that.

He's just making stuff up.  Oilers did well.  Only time UH was down in the teens was in those immediate post SWC years.

[bullet 1596]

12 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Even if they only attracted UH alumni they could easily do that. But they can't. The grads don't really care.

UH usually averages between 25 and 35k a game.  They've done as well as 38k in recent years.

Rice had a big promotion in the WAC years and was able to get 50k for an Air Force game.  But UH isn't as competent as Rice.

[notre dame joe 187]

17 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

A school, located right in the middle of Houston that has been elevated to P5 status isn't a sleeping giant?  I have to disagree.  You're going to see more higher rated players that they usually miss out on, staying home to play.  

Seems to me that whenever a state's #3 school is elevated to 'power' status, the flagship and #2 start looking around.

[Vertigo 20284]

13 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Seems to me that whenever a state's #3 school is elevated to 'power' status, the flagship and #2 start looking around.

Is this why Notre Dame went Independent? Because they were scared of Purdue?