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Realignment talk not going away

The Tower

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Posted by Sandbagging Steve,

How many teams will be left when the dust settles in a few years? I think there's a way for all the teams to still have some involvement. I will explain that at the end of this list. Here's my list of the top 32 programs and a list if it goes to 48. There's some debate if it goes to 48, but not much debate if it stops at 32. I guess one could debate Arizona State, but that's about it. The top 32 at least come close to carrying their own weight. Everyone below that line is losing money for t

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4736

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Posted
I still like this proposal the most:
Texas: Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Arkansas
Oklahoma: Texas, Missouri, Kentucky
Texas A&M: Texas, LSU, Arkansas
Missouri: Oklahoma, South Carolina, Arkansas
LSU: Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. State
Arkansas: Texas, Texas A&M, Missouri
Miss. State: Ole Miss, Alabama, LSU
Ole Miss: LSU, Miss. State, Vanderbilt
Alabama: Auburn, Tennessee, Miss. State
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, Florida
Tennessee: Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama
Vanderbilt: Tennessee, Kentucky, Ole Miss
Kentucky: Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Oklahoma
Georgia: Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
South Carolina: Georgia, Missouri, Florida
Florida: Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn
Auburn gets a tough trio, but this format also maintains the most secondary rivalries.

The sticky wicket is Mizzou. They just don’t fit. No one likes them. No one wants to visit their shit stadium or facilities.
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Aggy should abstain so the vote is 13-0 and then we can then brand it on their dog.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13226

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On 9/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, billfromlaketravis said:

That Big 12 2023 schedule is going to be fascinating in a very bad way for Texas. This is exactly what the Irate8 wanted. Prolong Texas/OU’s departure for as long as possible and soak every drop out of the sponge. But hey, UT painted themselves into a corner by letting ESPN drive the bus and not suing immediately after the Brent Z leak. 
 

Fans get screwed. The Tower, Bellmont, and ESPN don’t give a shit. Water is wet. 
 

Maalik better be ready next season. There is no way in hell Arch takes a snap in a Big 12 game. 

Why do I get screwed? I don't care when we go to the SEC.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4991

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16 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

You've got to be fucking kidding me:

 

https://theathletic.com/3621500/2022/09/22/pac-12-ucla-big-ten/

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the letter:

 

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/pac-12-uc-regents-letter/2d54d08a97825d75/full.pdf

 

 

If UCLA comes back they lose Stanford.

This is a bitch move. If he had ended it after the first page with a sentence highlighting some of his points it would have been so bad, but spell it OSU like that shows how fucking desperate they are.

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Texas Wahoo

Texas Wahoo 3397

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48 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

If UCLA comes back they lose Stanford.

This is a bitch move. If he had ended it after the first page with a sentence highlighting some of his points it would have been so bad, but spell it OSU like that shows how fucking desperate they are.

The Pac 12 would take that trade any day.

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'stache

'stache 21815

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Posted (edited)

What could possibly be accomplished by that letter? If it works, you have a member that will literally hate being there, and piss off others who are pursuing options, and more importantly it unequivocally is a waste of time and won't work. Usually its the state lawmakers that like to put on the dog and pony show so they can tell their "left behind" fan constituents that they tried (Oklahoma is exempt because they literally don't care and are too busy destroying public schools). It makes some sense for politicians, but how does the PAC commish thinks there's anything to gain? Who'se he trying to impress?

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12080

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9 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What could possibly be accomplished by that letter? If it works, you have a member that will literally hate being there, and piss off others who are pursuing options, and more importantly it unequivocally is a waste of time and won't work. Usually its the state lawmakers that like to put on the dog and pony show so they can tell their "left behind" fan constituents that they tried (Oklahoma is exempt because they literally don't care and are too busy destroying public schools). It makes some sense for politicians, but how does the PAC commish thinks there's anything to gain? Who'se he trying to impress?

I thought the same thing… unless they know this won’t do shit but it is to get the governor of this back and then be able to tell Cal that they tried…

I just seems rather pointless to me.

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Hurtlocker

Hurtlocker 2212

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Posted
1 hour ago, TKthunder2 said:

If UCLA comes back they lose Stanford.

This is a bitch move. If he had ended it after the first page with a sentence highlighting some of his points it would have been so bad, but spell it OSU like that shows how fucking desperate they are.

I found it interesting that it was a three-page letter of why UCLA's decision was bad, not a three-page letter of why UCLA should stay.   Like what is the Pac providing that's better.   Less plane flights seems disingenuous considering the only school UCLA busses too currently is USC.

So here's our options:

  • Nothing changes
  • UCLA still leaves, but Cal gets another $25m a year
  • B1G invites Cal and no one gives any shits about travel
  • They force UCLA to stay, on the condition the Pac only backfills USC with Cal system schools, and San Diego State gets invited
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Trojan Man

Trojan Man 429

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15 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I found it interesting that it was a three-page letter of why UCLA's decision was bad, not a three-page letter of why UCLA should stay.   Like what is the Pac providing that's better.   Less plane flights seems disingenuous considering the only school UCLA busses too currently is USC.

So here's our options:

  • Nothing changes
  • UCLA still leaves, but Cal gets another $25m a year
  • B1G invites Cal and no one gives any shits about travel
  • They force UCLA to stay, on the condition the Pac only backfills USC with Cal system schools, and San Diego State gets invited

Cal shouldn't get a penny from UCLA, and this is coming from someone who hates UCLA.  They'd be a slam dunk for a Big 10 invite if they gave a shit about the only two sports that pay the bills instead of being actively hostile towards football and men's basketball.  They didn't do everything they could to maximize their own success and profit (maybe the Pac 12 wouldn't be dying if they and the other schools in this category put in a little more effort) so they can fuck off if they want to grift anyone else.  This saga is exactly why I don't want Cal tagging along to the Big 10.

That letter really outlines why staying in the Pac 12 is unfeasible for reasons beyond media deals.  Kliavkoff cited spending more on coaching salaries in the Big 10 as a reason why UCLA shouldn't go.  "Hey stay here and keep employing Chip Kelly for cheap instead of spending more on a better coach."  By that logic USC should have kept Clay Helton at 5M/yr over Lincoln Riley at 10M/yr.  It doesn't inspire much confidence that things will get better when one of his arguments in favor of the Pac 12 is you can get by with cheaper, shittier coaches than you would be forced to hire if you want to compete in the Big 10.

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Hurtlocker

Hurtlocker 2212

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Posted
1 hour ago, Trojan Man said:

Cal shouldn't get a penny from UCLA, and this is coming from someone who hates UCLA.  They'd be a slam dunk for a Big 10 invite if they gave a shit about the only two sports that pay the bills instead of being actively hostile towards football and men's basketball.  They didn't do everything they could to maximize their own success and profit (maybe the Pac 12 wouldn't be dying if they and the other schools in this category put in a little more effort) so they can fuck off if they want to grift anyone else.  This saga is exactly why I don't want Cal tagging along to the Big 10.

That letter really outlines why staying in the Pac 12 is unfeasible for reasons beyond media deals.  Kliavkoff cited spending more on coaching salaries in the Big 10 as a reason why UCLA shouldn't go.  "Hey stay here and keep employing Chip Kelly for cheap instead of spending more on a better coach."  By that logic USC should have kept Clay Helton at 5M/yr over Lincoln Riley at 10M/yr.  It doesn't inspire much confidence that things will get better when one of his arguments in favor of the Pac 12 is you can get by with cheaper, shittier coaches than you would be forced to hire if you want to compete in the Big 10.

Yeah I don't think they should, was more the regents could just choose to spread the money around to ease the parting blow.   "We can't keep you from leaving, but we can move $20m of your funding from here to here."  

This entire Pac ordeal is nuts.  Within a decade they went from the P5 conference with all the good things, to pissing it down their leg and being in the worst spot.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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On 9/21/2022 at 8:49 AM, Aqua Buddha said:

ESPN (who holds the future Big 12 contract) will make them play it and the local Stillwater business will pressure them as well.  That's basically the only guaranteed sellout they get every other year and it's a good TV game.  They won't throw that away because of OSU's bitch assedness.  

I mean, we sold out our game against Arkansas Fucking Pine Bluff about 10 days ago, but ok.

 

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USC_TMB

USC_TMB 405

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On 9/23/2022 at 2:34 PM, Trojan Man said:

Cal shouldn't get a penny from UCLA, and this is coming from someone who hates UCLA.  They'd be a slam dunk for a Big 10 invite if they gave a shit about the only two sports that pay the bills instead of being actively hostile towards football and men's basketball.  They didn't do everything they could to maximize their own success and profit (maybe the Pac 12 wouldn't be dying if they and the other schools in this category put in a little more effort) so they can fuck off if they want to grift anyone else.  This saga is exactly why I don't want Cal tagging along to the Big 10.

That letter really outlines why staying in the Pac 12 is unfeasible for reasons beyond media deals.  Kliavkoff cited spending more on coaching salaries in the Big 10 as a reason why UCLA shouldn't go.  "Hey stay here and keep employing Chip Kelly for cheap instead of spending more on a better coach."  By that logic USC should have kept Clay Helton at 5M/yr over Lincoln Riley at 10M/yr.  It doesn't inspire much confidence that things will get better when one of his arguments in favor of the Pac 12 is you can get by with cheaper, shittier coaches than you would be forced to hire if you want to compete in the Big 10.

This is exactly right…nobody gives a tinker’s damn about Cal, especially Cal. They fought the rebuild of that craptastic stadium tooth and nail, and nobody shows up for the game. Forget the Bay-area TV market BS, they are not worth the effort to invite them to the B1G. As much as I hate ucla, they should stand firm and tel the Pac, the governor, and the board of regents to fuck right off. Do they make UC Davis and UC San Diego play in the Pac 12? It’s only fair, isn’t it?

Thank God we are leaving this useless conference

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bullet 1597

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https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-in-danger-of-eventual-collapse-as-big-ten-considers-further-expansion-big-12-interest-looms/

"...An offer deemed substantial enough would likely convince Big Ten presidents that California, Oregon, Stanford and Washington would be valuable additions to the league from the Pac-12. That figure is believed to be less than $100 million annually.

If the Big Ten makes such a move, it would almost certainly increase the likelihood the Big 12 is able to get some combination of Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah from the Pac-12, thus crushing the Pac-12 and hanging Oregon State and Washington State out to dry.

"If that [Big Ten move] happens, I think the other [four Pac-12] schools will want to jump to our league," said a Big 12 source familiar with the situation....

 

Industry chatter has Oregon State and Washington State moving to the Mountain West if the Pac-12 collapses. At that point, the MWC would replace the Pac-12 as the largest FBS conference completely located in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones.

Adding to the intrigue, the Big Ten and Big 12 share the same media rights consultant, Endeavor, a global sports and entertainment company....

 

It is believed the Big Ten's current rightsholders, Fox and ESPN, remain opposed to the conference expanding further. It is in the best interests of both networks for there to be a Pac-12, if for no other reason than cost certainty. After losing out on the new Big Ten deal, ESPN aims to acquire games that can be played in the "fourth window" -- after 10 p.m. Fox already has games in that window through its agreement with the Mountain West.

As the Big Ten's primary partner, Fox would likely consider four additional Pac-12 schools "dilutive" to the Big Ten product. Opponents of Big Ten expansion continue to scratch their heads wondering how Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington can bring enough value to the conference.

 

The answer? They don't. At least at first glance. However, Warren's play may be to get in on the ground floor with Amazon during a time in which when streaming is further catching up with linear cable...."

 

Fox chose not to bid for the Pac going forward.  They may consider it dilutive, but they still get better picks than any new bidder.

ESPN obviously would like to get Pac schools cheap, but they don't have much influence over the Big 10.

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Hurtlocker

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3 hours ago, bullet said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-in-danger-of-eventual-collapse-as-big-ten-considers-further-expansion-big-12-interest-looms/

"...An offer deemed substantial enough would likely convince Big Ten presidents that California, Oregon, Stanford and Washington would be valuable additions to the league from the Pac-12. That figure is believed to be less than $100 million annually.

...

In short that means that Amazon would have to pay around $300m a year for probably 30 games that would all be the 4th - 5th picks each week.   Its over valued, but they paid $1B for 17 TNF games.   To match the investment those 30 games would need to pull in an audience of about 1.5-2M per game.  That may be a bit high, but with all the brands they have under Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State/USC, it's doable.   

The Big Ten may need to go to ten conference games to pull it off too.

Its easy to see the 4 corners going to the Big 12 after, and maybe ND joining the ACC for good in a decade too.   That would put one at 20 and three at 16.   I just don't see how this spooks the SEC enough to expand more.   It does, however, consolidate management power considerably.   I'd also expect the "alliance" tables to turn, with ESPN and the SEC finding ways to entangle with and strengthen the ACC/B12 more.

 

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Left Coast

Left Coast 863

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35 minutes ago, USC_TMB said:

I don’t think UCLA has the land available on or near campus., hence the Rose Bowl

Yeah the residents of Brentwood, Bel Air and Westwood would allow a new stadium to be built in the year 2000-and-never.

But maybe they could become Saturday tenants at So-Fi? Inglewood is closer to Westwood than Pasadena is, and So-Fi has a smaller capacity. The novelty factor itself would attract more fans, not to mention its a much nicer stadium.

The only thing that would be worse is the tailgating. Tailgating on the RB golf course is spectacular.

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USC_TMB

USC_TMB 405

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40 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

They have land they could repurpose right near the basketball pavilion. It COULD be done, but I doubt it ever happens.

Dealing with the Rose Bowl operators and the locals is a walk in the park compared to dealing with the Westwood/Brentwood/Bel Air crowd

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4991

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Kennesaw State (just NW of Atlanta) is close to joining CUSA as it’s 10th member. This will be Georgia’s 5th FBS university (UGA, GT, GA St, GA Southern), and 4th in the Greater Atlanta Metropolitan Statistical Area (not GA Southern).

https://footballscoop.com/news/kennesaw-state-reportedly-close-to-joining-conference-usa-conference-realignment

Proposed New CUSA:
New Mexico State
UTEP
Sam Houston State
Louisiana Tech
Middle Tennessee State
Western Kentucky
Jacksonville State (AL)
Kennesaw State (GA)
Florida International
Liberty (VA)

 

Tarleton, Stephen F Austin, Eastern Kentucky and McNeese (LA) have also been rumored as CUSA additions.

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bullet 1597

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Oregon AD Mullens, originally from WVU, was interviewed on TV there and made the comment that TV and USC/UCLA broke the regional tradition and that there was going to be more and more change.  Didn't say anything specific, but definitely supported the idea that UW and Oregon might move to the Big 10.

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bullet 1597

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2 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Kennesaw State (just NW of Atlanta) is close to joining CUSA as it’s 10th member. This will be Georgia’s 5th FBS university (UGA, GT, GA St, GA Southern), and 4th in the Greater Atlanta Metropolitan Statistical Area (not GA Southern).

https://footballscoop.com/news/kennesaw-state-reportedly-close-to-joining-conference-usa-conference-realignment

Proposed New CUSA:
New Mexico State
UTEP
Sam Houston State
Louisiana Tech
Middle Tennessee State
Western Kentucky
Jacksonville State (AL)
Kennesaw State (GA)
Florida International
Liberty (VA)

 

Tarleton, Stephen F Austin, Eastern Kentucky and McNeese (LA) have also been rumored as CUSA additions.

Georgia is actually just outside the Atlanta metro area, but only about 75 minutes from downtown Atlanta.  Georgia State and Georgia Tech are both in downtown Atlanta.  KSU is about 25 miles NW.  They have an 8300 seat stadium.  The way it is aligned, it will be difficult to expand.  Its nice and relatively new, but little.  Atlanta United sometimes plays there.  Atlanta United 2 uses it as its home base (think AAA soccer).  KSU has 40,000 students and on campus housing, but the kids all go home on weekends, so its a lot like a commuter campus.  Baseball, softball and basketball are also new, nice and small, but they are probably big enough for CUSA.

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TKthunder2

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11 hours ago, bullet said:

Georgia is actually just outside the Atlanta metro area, but only about 75 minutes from downtown Atlanta.  Georgia State and Georgia Tech are both in downtown Atlanta.  KSU is about 25 miles NW.  They have an 8300 seat stadium.  The way it is aligned, it will be difficult to expand.  Its nice and relatively new, but little.  Atlanta United sometimes plays there.  Atlanta United 2 uses it as its home base (think AAA soccer).  KSU has 40,000 students and on campus housing, but the kids all go home on weekends, so its a lot like a commuter campus.  Baseball, softball and basketball are also new, nice and small, but they are probably big enough for CUSA.

I know where Athens is but it’s is in fact  in the greater Atlanta statistical metro area.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_metropolitan_area

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4991

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7 minutes ago, Okie State said:
10 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:
Serious question, why did they lower the capacity after 2016?
55,509 (2019–present)
56,790 (2017–2018)
60,218 (2009–2016)
60,000 (2008)
44,700 (2007)

I don't remember. Maybe more club seats. I'm sure stache or Jeff will know.

Either way, more to your original point, Oklahoma doesn’t show up until #10 in your stadium’s highest attendance (and Texas isn’t in there at all), but they are all from 2013-2015

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boone_Pickens_Stadium

Baylor
TCU
Kansas
West Virginia
TCU
Lamar (wtf did you guys give away free tickets lol)
K State
K State
Baylor
Oklahoma

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bullet 1597

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On 10/8/2022 at 11:18 AM, TKthunder2 said:

I know where Athens is but it’s is in fact  in the greater Atlanta statistical metro area.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_metropolitan_area

Wrong.  It is not in the Atlanta Metropolitan Statistical Area.  It is a separate Athens MSA.  The commuting patterns make it separate.

 

It is in the Combined Statistical Area.  That's where they throw in Athens, Rome (practically to Tennessee), LaGrange (practically to Alabama), Thomaston (halfway to Florida) and a bunch of other communities.  With DFW, its when they throw in everything from Corsicana to Mineral Wells to Sherman to Durant, OK.  With Houston, they include Huntsville, Brenham, El Campo and Bay City.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4991

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1 hour ago, bullet said:

Wrong.  It is not in the Atlanta Metropolitan Statistical Area.  It is a separate Athens MSA.  The commuting patterns make it separate.

 

It is in the Combined Statistical Area.  That's where they throw in Athens, Rome (practically to Tennessee), LaGrange (practically to Alabama), Thomaston (halfway to Florida) and a bunch of other communities.  With DFW, its when they throw in everything from Corsicana to Mineral Wells to Sherman to Durant, OK.  With Houston, they include Huntsville, Brenham, El Campo and Bay City.

My goodness, I left out the word ‘combined’ when paraphrasing one of the links I posted, that makes you 100% correct and not just an asshole splitting hairs :)

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bullet 1597

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On 10/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, TKthunder2 said:

My goodness, I left out the word ‘combined’ when paraphrasing one of the links I posted, that makes you 100% correct and not just an asshole splitting hairs :)

Right.  Just like you aren't an asshole for failing to admit you specifically said "Atlanta Metropolitan Statistical Area" in your initial post I corrected.  Right???🙂

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https://www.ajc.com/sports/kennesaw-state-on-track-to-join-conference-usa-move-up-to-fbs/EGHB7WFBLZGWDPCQPQRBMCIM2Q/

 

"Kennesaw State received conditional approval from Georgia’s Board of Regents on Wednesday to move its athletic programs to Conference USA, launching its football program to the NCAA’s highest and more lucrative level of competition.

 

The one condition the university must meet is a demonstration of support from student and faculty governing bodies and other community members. Then, University System of Georgia Chancellor Sonny Perdue can sign off on the move.

 

Other details of Kennesaw State’s potential shift from the ASUN to Conference USA have not been disclosed, and there was little discussion of the move during this week’s Board of Regents meetings held at Dalton State College. ESPN reported that the school is expected to join its new conference in 2024...."

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Texas Wahoo

Texas Wahoo 3397

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Js1 said:

image.gif.f58529dc0b11e41c4329208ea1834839.gif
 

(Basketball)

What?  Why on earth would they play league games multiple times when adding teams?  Am I missing something?

EDIT:  Just realized this is for basketball.  It's still weird to cut down on the number of conference games, but it is not crazy.

Edited by Texas Wahoo
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