Realignment talk not going away

[DFW Horn 6123]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

So pods of 3? i kid i kid

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between "guaranteed rivals" and pods. Somebody explained it once, but I forget or was drinking that night. Semantics?

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between "guaranteed rivals" and pods. Somebody explained it once, but I forget or was drinking that night. Semantics?

I think it's the spelling haha. I don't see a difference either.

[Lou_Sassle 2874]

15 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between "guaranteed rivals" and pods. Somebody explained it once, but I forget or was drinking that night. Semantics?

With "pods" all 4 teams in the pod play each other every year. So, for example, UT, ou, atm, pig would all 4 play each other every year. With the 3+6, Those 4 teams would play other teams. UT may play ou atm and pig, but ou would play Mizzou Florida and UT (for example), and atm would play UT lsu and msst (for example), and pig would play UT lsu and om (for example).

Edited February 13, 2023 by Lou_Sassle

[Trojan Man 429]

10 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between "guaranteed rivals" and pods. Somebody explained it once, but I forget or was drinking that night. Semantics?

 

9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I think it's the spelling haha. I don't see a difference either.

Pods mean it's the same 3 teams for everyone in it while guaranteed rivals offers more flexibility.  For example, from Texas' perspective there is no difference between being in a pod with Oklahoma/A&M/Arkansas and having those teams as their 3 guaranteed rivals.  But for A&M being in that pod means they lose a guaranteed rival they want in LSU.  If you put Alabama/Tennessee/Auburn/Vanderbilt in the same pod you wouldn't have any complaints from Alabama or Tennessee but Auburn and Georgia would be pissed about missing each other while Kentucky wants Tennessee as one of their 3 guaranteed games and Florida might too.  3 rivals seems like the best way to preserve the most important games and keep all the schools happy.

[bullet 1596]

47 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between "guaranteed rivals" and pods. Somebody explained it once, but I forget or was drinking that night. Semantics?

With pods, everyone in the pod plays each other.  With guaranteed rivals, your rivals might not play each other.

[mdmost 42999]

 

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Sounds like a vote of confidence.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

So instead of just announcing a new deal they announce they're about to have a new deal and that everyone is on board....strange.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

The Big 12 has done a lot of stupid shit with bad optics, but this comes off considerably more disjointed and desperate than the Big 12 ever has.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

Based off how conference realignment has been going this time around, I expect this statement is the thing that comes out a few days before the 4 corners schools stat jumping ship and is gonna age even worse than it looks right now. 

If this statement were a gif:

Edited February 13, 2023 by Evil Bill Obrien
gif

[Texas Wahoo 3389]

18 minutes ago, mdmost said:

 

Obviously, the key will be whether the schools are forced to sign a grant of rights in order to get a deal done.

[Trojan Man 429]

Don't take anything SI says seriously, they're not even a shell of what they used to be.  They're just a SEO machine capitalizing on people who remember when SI was a legitimate sports news/journalism outlet.  Until a deal is signed any positive news coming out of the Pac 12 with regards to a media deal sounds like it comes from Baghdad Bob.  There are several major conflicting problems facing the conference.

-ESPN wants the Pac 12's top games but they are lowballing the conference and they're done bidding against themselves for sports media rights

-Amazon wants their top games and a 10-15 year GOR

-Adding SDSU and SMU would add value for Amazon and detract value for ESPN (more inventory/Prime subs for Amazon, but for ESPN it's a higher price tag for teams they already own and aren't worth Pac 12 money)

If they go for ESPN they are getting exposure for their best games/brands but they'll still end up with a lot of games banished to ESPN+ and the 10:30 PM ET drunks and gamblers audience, plus it's still less money and less exposure than they would get for jumping to the Big 12.  If they go Amazon they can probably get at least as much as the Big 12 but their exposure is fucked and they will have to sign a very long GOR, which Oregon and Washington have zero interest in doing since they are holding out hope for a B1G invite in the next round of realignment musical chairs.  They can't pursue what seems like their ideal outcome of selling their best games to ESPN while selling the rest to Amazon because Amazon wants Oregon/Washington, not just Oregon State/Washington State, and because Amazon and ESPN have different perspectives on Pac 12 expansion.

['stache 21792]

Is Klavakov just Bowlsby in a disguise? "We are united" is verbatim wat Bowlsby said hours before it all went to hell. This does not look good for them.

[Crockett 490]

25 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

If they go for ESPN they are getting exposure for their best games/brands but they'll still end up with a lot of games banished to ESPN+ and the 10:30 PM ET drunks and gamblers audience, ...

Haha I might steal that line

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

10 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Is Klavakov just Bowlsby in a disguise? "We are united" is verbatim wat Bowlsby said hours before it all went to hell. This does not look good for them.

While they both come off as incompetent, I also think both of them are/were stuck in can't win scenarios.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[thunderlounge 7813]

19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

While they both come off as incompetent, I also think both of them are/were stuck in can't win scenarios.

That they put themselves in due to their extreme incompetence. 

[DFW Horn 6123]

2 hours ago, Lou_Sassle said:

With "pods" all 4 teams in the pod play each other every year. So, for example, UT, ou, atm, pig would all 4 play each other every year. With the 3+6, Those 4 teams would play other teams. UT may play ou atm and pig, but ou would play Mizzou Florida and UT (for example), and atm would play UT lsu and msst (for example), and pig would play UT lsu and om (for example).

Of course.....duh. I must still be hungover from last night. Furk

[redswingline 1057]

6 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Don't take anything SI says seriously...  They're... capitalizing on people who remember when SI was

I remember SI when I was growing up. It was basically porn for 10 year old and it was great.

 

I'm assuming the next generation of guys probably don't even read it, much less subscribe to magazines. Based on what I'm seeing recently, that is probably a good thing.

 

 

[tbone_ 14106]

Jfc

[ChiTownDoc 21139]

58 minutes ago, redswingline said:

I remember SI when I was growing up. It was basically porn for 10 year old and it was great.

 

I'm assuming the next generation of guys probably don't even read it, much less subscribe to magazines. Based on what I'm seeing recently, that is probably a good thing.

 

 

I thought I erroneously clicked on the phatterson thread…

[redswingline 1057]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I thought I erroneously clicked on the phatterson thread…

no lie - my brain is machine-level programmed to view him as phatterson that my eyes see the "h" even when his name is spelled correctly.

 

[Hagbard Celine 10848]

2 hours ago, redswingline said:

@Vic Mackey

bernard

bernard

Edited February 14, 2023 by Hagbard Celine

[MAUFRAIS 6616]

Yummy? No.

[bullet 1596]

Good interview with Brett McMurphy.  Brett is from start to about 24 minutes.  Pony guy gives his thoughts for about 5 minutes, then he talks SMU basketball.

Brett said he had NEVER seen a commissioner go to a campus before the invitation before.

Thought their statement was really weird and gave off the impression of the dreaded vote of confidence.

Fox will not be a part of the Pac deal so ESPN and Amazon are just bidding against themselves.

Deal could be in next couple of weeks, but late March/early April most likely.

SMU and SDSU invitations are when, not if.

G5 is obsolete.  Thinks NIL and media rights gap make a split inevitable.

Lots of schools want out of ACC, so when they think they can get out of GOR, its likely to be chaos.

In is personal opinion, he doesn't see the Big 10 leaving USC and UCLA on an island.  He thinks Big 10 still wants to expand more in the west, but is not ready.  He thinks its inevitable that they do take more from the Pac, but they will have to act quickly or wait a few years.

Pony guy says SMU has been talking a lot for over a year with ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

The key to the PAC is if there is a GOR or the length of the GOR. IMO any school in the PAC that has a any shred of doubt should not sign any GOR longer than 5 years.

Edited February 14, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Gidnik 3268]

The pac lives as long as the big 10 allows it. When Oregon and Washington leave and only then will anyone consider leaving. 

[Horn of Gabriel 1614]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:43 PM, Trojan Man said:

Don't take anything SI says seriously, they're not even a shell of what they used to be.  They're just a SEO machine capitalizing on people who remember when SI was a legitimate sports news/journalism outlet.  Until a deal is signed any positive news coming out of the Pac 12 with regards to a media deal sounds like it comes from Baghdad Bob.  There are several major conflicting problems facing the conference.

-ESPN wants the Pac 12's top games but they are lowballing the conference and they're done bidding against themselves for sports media rights

-Amazon wants their top games and a 10-15 year GOR

-Adding SDSU and SMU would add value for Amazon and detract value for ESPN (more inventory/Prime subs for Amazon, but for ESPN it's a higher price tag for teams they already own and aren't worth Pac 12 money)

If they go for ESPN they are getting exposure for their best games/brands but they'll still end up with a lot of games banished to ESPN+ and the 10:30 PM ET drunks and gamblers audience, plus it's still less money and less exposure than they would get for jumping to the Big 12.  If they go Amazon they can probably get at least as much as the Big 12 but their exposure is fucked and they will have to sign a very long GOR, which Oregon and Washington have zero interest in doing since they are holding out hope for a B1G invite in the next round of realignment musical chairs.  They can't pursue what seems like their ideal outcome of selling their best games to ESPN while selling the rest to Amazon because Amazon wants Oregon/Washington, not just Oregon State/Washington State, and because Amazon and ESPN have different perspectives on Pac 12 expansion.

This is interesting; source on the Amazon 15-year GOR request?

[FartingDreamer 138]

20 hours ago, redswingline said:

I remember SI when I was growing up. It was basically porn for 10 year old and it was great.

 

I'm assuming the next generation of guys probably don't even read it, much less subscribe to magazines. Based on what I'm seeing recently, that is probably a good thing.

 

 

She ain't a lady if she ain't 280...

[Poolflood 845]

8 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

She ain't a lady if she ain't 280...

In a horrific way, user name fits.

[Satchel 6925]

4 hours ago, Gidnik said:

The pac lives as long as the big 10 allows it. When Oregon and Washington leave and only then will anyone consider leaving. 

The conferences, even the B1G and the Sec, don’t get to allow anything the networks don’t bless. They’re along for the ride, as is everybody else.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee
Arkansas: LSU, Texas, Texas A&M
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, LSU
Florida: Georgia, LSU, Tennessee
Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Miss State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt 
LSU: Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss
Missouri: Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina
Ole Miss: Arkansas, LSU, Miss State. 
Miss St: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Missouri, Texas
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Missouri
Tennssee: Alabama, Florida, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Kentucky, OleMiss, Tennessee

Does that seem right for permanent games?

Edited February 15, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Thiefery 4995]

13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee
Arkansas: LSU, Texas, Texas A&M
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, LSU
Florida: Georgia, LSU, Tennessee
Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Miss State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt 
LSU: Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss
Missouri: Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina
Ole Miss: Arkansas, LSU, Miss State. 
Miss St: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Missouri, Texas
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Missouri
Tennssee: Alabama, Florida, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Kentucky, OleMiss, Tennessee

Does that seem right for permanent games?

looks good to me

[Trojan Man 429]

5 hours ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

This is interesting; source on the Amazon 15-year GOR request?

I think it was from a recent article on The Athletic.  The idea is since this would be Amazon's first dive into college sports they want to have some long term payout/security if they're going to invest in the marketing and infrastructure for it, hence the long GOR.  Losing Oregon and Washington to the B1G after only 5 years would be terrible for Amazon.

36 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee
Arkansas: LSU, Texas, Texas A&M
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, LSU
Florida: Georgia, LSU, Tennessee
Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Miss State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt 
LSU: Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss
Missouri: Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina
Ole Miss: Arkansas, LSU, Miss State. 
Miss St: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Missouri, Texas
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Missouri
Tennssee: Alabama, Florida, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Kentucky, OleMiss, Tennessee

Does that seem right for permanent games?

You have LSU as one of Florida's games but Florida is not one of LSU's games.  Same thing with South Carolina/Florida.

[Gaffords 755]

9 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The key to the PAC is if there is a GOR or the length of the GOR. IMO any school in the PAC that has a any shred of doubt should not sign any GOR longer than 5 years.

The schools who were making the most noise about the PAC getting left behind are still there. 

I'd say that any PAC school who has other options are waiting to see what the deal they are offered looks like, and if it's somewhat behind the Big 12's there will be some jumping ship taking place.

It was the PAC falling behind that put them in this mess, so I don't see those who can leave, sticking around just to continue falling 3v3n further behind... 

 

But 5hen again,. Does the Big 12 really want 4 pact teams?  The sports mouths around FSU are making a lot of noise about getting out...  I only mention it, not because I think the BIG 12 has a chance to snag them. I mention it because I remember us getting crucified over unequal revenue sharing as if UT not only created the concept, they were also the only team who benefited from it.  But that's what FSU sports guys think the ACC has to do...  The same talk was taking place out west also.   

It's funny how we are evil incarnate for being greedy, but when It's their coattail that's weighing them down from all the mouths on it, then it's fine to get more money than others. But you really got to love the hate that UT and OU is getting from the other Big 12 fans and sports media for leaving, knowing if their school's phone had rang instead, they would be the ones leaving. 

It will be interesting to see who rises to the top of the Big 12 amd feels the burden of shouldering a conference in which over half of the members are more than happy to let others do it, but then bitch about how it's being done...  

[statsman 5450]

8 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee
Arkansas: LSU, Texas, Texas A&M
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, LSU
Florida: Georgia, LSU, Tennessee
Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Miss State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt 
LSU: Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss
Missouri: Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina
Ole Miss: Arkansas, LSU, Miss State. 
Miss St: Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Missouri, Texas
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Missouri
Tennssee: Alabama, Florida, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Kentucky, OleMiss, Tennessee

Does that seem right for permanent games?

You have Arkansas as a rival for Ole Miss (which picks up a decades old rivalry, used to be played in Memphis), but you don’t have Ole Miss as a permanent rival for Arkansas

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Just now, statsman said:

You have Arkansas as a rival for Ole Miss (which picks up a decades old rivalry, used to be played in Memphis), but you don’t have Ole Miss as a permanent rival for Arkansas

It's so hard to intertwine every rivalry so putting this together I went the more traditional rivals of the teams while limiting it to 3 teams per team. 

[jTower 227]

8 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

I think it was from a recent article on The Athletic.  The idea is since this would be Amazon's first dive into college sports they want to have some long term payout/security if they're going to invest in the marketing and infrastructure for it, hence the long GOR.  Losing Oregon and Washington to the B1G after only 5 years would be terrible for Amazon.

You have LSU as one of Florida's games but Florida is not one of LSU's games.  Same thing with South Carolina/Florida.

And Arkansas is listed a permanent rival for six teams

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

16 minutes ago, jTower said:

And Arkansas is listed a permanent rival for six teams

To be fair, it's a known meme in the SEC that Arkansas generally gets the hardest schedule

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

7 hours ago, Gaffords said:

The schools who were making the most noise about the PAC getting left behind are still there. 

I'd say that any PAC school who has other options are waiting to see what the deal they are offered looks like, and if it's somewhat behind the Big 12's there will be some jumping ship taking place.

It was the PAC falling behind that put them in this mess, so I don't see those who can leave, sticking around just to continue falling 3v3n further behind... 

 

But 5hen again,. Does the Big 12 really want 4 pact teams?  The sports mouths around FSU are making a lot of noise about getting out...  I only mention it, not because I think the BIG 12 has a chance to snag them. I mention it because I remember us getting crucified over unequal revenue sharing as if UT not only created the concept, they were also the only team who benefited from it.  But that's what FSU sports guys think the ACC has to do...  The same talk was taking place out west also.   

It's funny how we are evil incarnate for being greedy, but when It's their coattail that's weighing them down from all the mouths on it, then it's fine to get more money than others. But you really got to love the hate that UT and OU is getting from the other Big 12 fans and sports media for leaving, knowing if their school's phone had rang instead, they would be the ones leaving. 

It will be interesting to see who rises to the top of the Big 12 amd feels the burden of shouldering a conference in which over half of the members are more than happy to let others do it, but then bitch about how it's being done...  

That's probably not going to happen in the new Big 12, which is why it will be so entertaining.  No school has some massive gap in resources or history over the others that will allow it to have maintain some real power position or run at the top.

By pushing all of the blue bloods into a couple leagues, you remove the power structures that existed for years.  There's a vacuum, and I think it's far more likely that vacuum fills with ruthless parity rather than some new hegemony.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[Magus Ossis 2797]

22 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's probably not going to happen in the new Big 12, which is why it will be so entertaining.  No school has some massive gap in resources or history over the others that will allow it to have maintain some real power position or run at the top.

By pushing all of the blue bloods into a couple leagues, you remove the power structures that existed for years.  There's a vacuum, and I think it's far more likely that vacuum fills with ruthless parity rather than some new hegemony.

There will be no blue bloods, but I strongly suspect there will be haves and have nots. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

7 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

There will be no blue bloods, but I strongly suspect there will be haves and have nots. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I really don't think you see a team dominate the top the way OU has the last decade or dominate the basement the way KU has for the same window.

The situation where you have Texas with a massive fanbase full of extremely wealthy BMDs, and high level historical success, or OU with an 80 year history of being great is gone.  The resources are pretty similar from school to school.  The ones where the admins and fans don't really invest in football could fall off, but they're also the ones with the most external advantages.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

While I tend to agree that theres not another program in the new look Big 12 that I can see rising to the kind of dominance that OU did in football, or Texas did in money and clout, can see a scenario where the biggest fanbases left in the remaining 8 (Tech and OKST most likely) do grow weary of carrying the weight. Someone has to pull the conference gravy train and it ain't gonna be UH, WVU, TCU, UCF or Baylor, those are all gravy carriages along for the ride. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

2 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

While I tend to agree that theres not another program in the new look Big 12 that I can see rising to the kind of dominance that OU did in football, or Texas did in money and clout, can see a scenario where the biggest fanbases left in the remaining 8 (Tech and OKST most likely) do grow weary of carrying the weight. Someone has to pull the conference gravy train and it ain't gonna be UH, WVU, TCU, UCF or Baylor, those are all gravy carriages along for the ride. 

I don't think you needed to add Evil to the front of your user name because Bill Obrien implies that your username is evil.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

5 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

While I tend to agree that theres not another program in the new look Big 12 that I can see rising to the kind of dominance that OU did in football, or Texas did in money and clout, can see a scenario where the biggest fanbases left in the remaining 8 (Tech and OKST most likely) do grow weary of carrying the weight. Someone has to pull the conference gravy train and it ain't gonna be UH, WVU, TCU, UCF or Baylor, those are all gravy carriages along for the ride. 

We would be thrilled to be in a position to carry the weight.

I don't understand this mindset from your fanbase one bit.  I would love it if ISU was the most powerful school in a conference and had to take the silly sniping from the schools down the food chain.

Probably all of this just boils down to human beings inherently wanting the things they don't have.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[Evil Bill Obrien 3256]

13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I don't think you needed to add Evil to the front of your user name because Bill Obrien implies that your username is evil.

Department of Redundancy Department talk not going away

Gotta admit the man has a fascinating career arc tho, tutelage under the evilest of Bills in New England, went and pulled Pedo State out of the gutter, put the Texans into the gutter and lit them on fire, back to school at the Nick Saban school for coaches who don't coach very well, and now full circle back to New England...and that doesn't even cover him working at Brown, Georgia Tech, Maryland, and Duke all before his first stint with the Pats

Edited February 15, 2023 by Evil Bill Obrien

[Hurtlocker 2212]

Probably not saying anything new, but from the guy who covers Arizona recounting a Sports Business Journal Podcast

Edited February 15, 2023 by Hurtlocker

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

He's very pro Big 12.  I'm not sure if he's being used as a mouth piece, or it's just where he's at personally.

I hope it's the former but suspect it's just the latter.

[Crockett 490]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I really don't think you see a team dominate the top the way OU has the last decade or dominate the basement the way KU has for the same window.

The situation where you have Texas with a massive fanbase full of extremely wealthy BMDs, and high level historical success, or OU with an 80 year history of being great is gone.  The resources are pretty similar from school to school.  The ones where the admins and fans don't really invest in football could fall off, but they're also the ones with the most external advantages.

What will be interesting to me is how this massive increase of money for BYU -- compared to what we used to get -- impacts things. (Could say the same for the other newcomers.) I feel like we have been punching above our financial weight for some time and now I wonder what level of impact this huge financial bump will have on our performance and how long it will take for that impact to show up? I expect us to take our lumps initially in the B12, but hoping we level up and more than carry our weight in the conference. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

43 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Probably not saying anything new, but from the guy who covers Arizona recounting a Sports Business Journal Podcast

Those Arizona schools are so ripe for the picking. 

[closetojumping 62520]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

To be fair, it's a known meme in the SEC that Arkansas generally gets the hardest schedule

Huh? Auburn has a permanent fixture against Georgia and plays in the SEC West. Arkansas is not "known" for getting the hardest schedule. On SECRant, it's a fucking given among the span of posters there that Auburn is fucked first and foremost each season.