Realignment talk not going away

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

9 hours ago, LTbear said:

Trust me, a CU grad and college professor, that having another meeting that they've had many of isn't all that terribly strange. It would be odd if they weren't discussing this right now. I interpreted the Tweeter as expecting something big to come of that meeting - it won't. The board can't even decide major moves within the confines of that meeting.

Do you have the agenda of those meetings?

[Al_4_ISU 12469]

I just read through a Colorado board, and that was something.  They're completely delusional about what they're going to get for a TV package, and also think the Big 12 will come calling.  Many posters are quite literally saying that they don't want to associate with Big 12 schools.

Pride indeed comes before the fall.

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

Apparently big 12 leadership are having their annual meetings yesterday and today. Guy on horn said he wouldn’t be surprised to see big 12 he aggressive coming out of those 

[LTbear 4171]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Do you have the agenda of those meetings?

Not the full thing. I do somewhat kinda know someone who's been in them via a mutual friend. The summer meetings were not nearly as sensational as media would like them to be. 

My comment could be because I interpreted the tweeter differently than others, as though he expected something huge (like a conference change announcement) to come out of this next meeting. I'm just saying that's almost certainly not the case. But if I'm wrong, cool (I actually wish the PAC would survive, because I like regionality, but I'd mostly like to see this round of realignment end so we know where everyone is going to end up). 

[LTbear 4171]

33 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I just read through a Colorado board, and that was something.  They're completely delusional about what they're going to get for a TV package, and also think the Big 12 will come calling.  Many posters are quite literally saying that they don't want to associate with Big 12 schools.

Pride indeed comes before the fall.

Many believe they'd be valuable to the B1G. Others actually think - now sit down for this - that down the road the SEC might be interested. I wish I were kidding. 

[Al_4_ISU 12469]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

Many believe they'd be valuable to the B1G. Others actually think - now sit down for this - that down the road the SEC might be interested. I wish I were kidding. 

They were talking about how awful going to "Stoolwater" "little Manhattan" and "Lames" were.

Bitch, I've partied in Boulder.  It's a beautiful setting with nice places, but I was bored to tears out about the actual town.  It was dead on a Saturday night during school prior to COVID.  I've had far more fun in all of the aforementioned shit hole towns.

I want them back just to have to watch them swallow their pride.  CU would get mudholed by any of those programs over the last decade.

[statsman 5472]

22 hours ago, CustersDoctor said:

Here's attendance figures I found

NEW12 ISU 57,344. TCU 46,562. UK 43,076. KST 51,165. BU 45,463. TECH 56,870. OKST 54,735. WVU 47,658. BYU 59,674. Cincy 38,117. UCF 41,542. CougHigh 25,073

PAC10 UO 54,950. UW 62,933. ORST 31,498. WASU 26,185. UU 52,057. CAL 38,596. STAN 29,965. UA 44,209. AST 43,081. CU 42,847.

POTENTIAL TARGETS SDSU 29,892. SMU 24,971. FRESNO 39,067. COLSt 26,891. BOISE 35,121. UTSA 26,835. TULANE 20,361. NEVADA 14,905. MEMPHIS 26,196. UNLV 22,112. 

 

Thanks, but a better measure is gate receipts, due to price elasticity. 

[Thiefery 5013]

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Thiefery

[Uncle Nate 2097]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I just read through a Colorado board, and that was something.  They're completely delusional about what they're going to get for a TV package, and also think the Big 12 will come calling.  Many posters are quite literally saying that they don't want to associate with Big 12 schools.

Pride indeed comes before the fall.

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now."  

When they left for the PAC, I said good riddance.

Let the Big XII take the two Arizona schools, get to 14, and then wait and watch what happens to the ACC.  I would love to get NC State and VA Tech to the Big 12.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Uncle Nate

[BachelorTrek 3049]

16 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now."  

When they left for the PAC, I said good riddance.

Let the Big XII take the two Arizona schools, get to 14, and then wait and watch what happens to the ACC.  I would love to get NC State and VA Tech to the Big 12.

CU fans and nohio state fans might be tied for drugged-out-drunken belligerence. 

I still hear stories from every Texas fan I know that went to C-bus game in 2005 who had to run gauntlets full of thugs to and from the stadium.

[CustersDoctor 584]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

Thanks, but a better measure is gate receipts, due to price elasticity. 

No doubt. These schools are self reporting and attendance is based on ticket sales not butts in seats. And sometimes a business may buy the remaining tickets to get to a sell out and nobody uses those seats and they can't even give them away. I live here is Lubbock and United Supermarkets often buys the last thousand or so tickets at a reduced price just so we can sell out the stadium. I bet anything Nike has done that once or twice.

[CustersDoctor 584]

32 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now." 

The thing that scares me about going to Colorado is that they have been saving batteries for 10 years now.

[hookemATL 11778]

15 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

I still hear stories from every Texas fan I know that went to C-bus game in 2005 who had to run gauntlets full of thugs to and from the stadium.

Lets try and show a little empathy.  You'd probably be a deranged, drunken psychopath with nothing (cept footbawwwwww gaymesssssssss) to help your emotional well being rise above suicidal ideation too if you had to live in that state/town and go to school at OSU.  

[Crockett 491]

43 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now."  

When they left for the PAC, I said good riddance.

Let the Big XII take the two Arizona schools, get to 14, and then wait and watch what happens to the ACC.  I would love to get NC State and VA Tech to the Big 12.

I'm on board with this. Let Utah rot and the only thing that intrigues me about Colorado is Deion, but who knows how long he will be there. 

[KennyPowders 331]

is this fucking iowa state guy still really trying to sell the midwest and its electric atmosphere. you live in a fly over state. your women are ugly and your bbq sucks. 

[BachelorTrek 3049]

24 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

Lets try and show a little empathy.  You'd probably be a deranged, drunken psychopath with nothing (cept footbawwwwww gaymesssssssss) to help your emotional well being rise above suicidal ideation too if you had to live in that state/town and go to school at OSU.  

[NoName 16354]

18 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

Of course an ESPN exec would say this...

ESPN is the exclusive holder of all ACC rights. 

Curiously, the ACC currently distributes the least amount of money to its schools in comparison to the rest of the P5. The ACC schools are also locked into this contract under GOR until the year 2036! This move would be crazy.

FORMER ESPN President, resigned in Dec 2017 after getting extorted by his coke dealer. still super well thought of in the media world, currently exec chairman of DAZN. was genuinely a great president for ESPN and what he did for the company. legit one of the most plugged in people in sports media.

[Jabberwocky 1666]

13 minutes ago, NoName said:

FORMER ESPN President, resigned in Dec 2017 after getting extorted by his coke dealer. still super well thought of in the media world, currently exec chairman of DAZN. was genuinely a great president for ESPN and what he did for the company. legit one of the most plugged in people in sports media.

Okay.... I believe you.

But none of that changes the fact that it would be a REALLY dumb idea to lock yourself into a shitty contract for 13 years.

Additionally, you would be making a 24 team conference with about two thirds of it being umarketable, dead weight. There is no guarantee that they would be getting a payday after the 13 years are up. Notre Dame, Clemson, FSU, North Carolina, and others are all likely bouncing at the end as well.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Jabberwocky

[Uncle Nate 2097]

So what’s the safe bet here?  Pac10 and ACC merge?  Is that’s what is behind the delay?

[Al_4_ISU 12469]

21 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

So what’s the safe bet here?  Pac10 and ACC merge?  Is that’s what is behind the delay?

I think the safe bet is the Pac takes a shitty deal and fades into irrelevance.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now."  

When they left for the PAC, I said good riddance.

Let the Big XII take the two Arizona schools, get to 14, and then wait and watch what happens to the ACC.  I would love to get NC State and VA Tech to the Big 12.

Going all the way back to the Big 8 days, Colorado fans were pretty much universally despised.

One of their more notorious activities were, when there was snow on the ground, they would load up snowballs with batteries and chuck them at visiting fan sections.

[Magus Ossis 2803]

If there were a plus option on the table for the Pac, (1) it would be out there as a way to use the media to build support for preserving the league, and (2) the four corner schools wouldn't still be playing this much footsie with the Big12. I don't recall much ammunition being spent to shoot down the trial balloons for reduced payout memberships in the B1G for UW and UO other than the generic "we're in the Pac" votes of confidence. It sounds a lot like oral/ handshake (sorry aggy) type deals have already set both of the above moves in place unless the Pac somehow pulls a rabbit out of its rear in broadcast negotiations. There is no FOIA trail until emails, contracts, or the like pop up. An executive session of the board is a great place to keep members apprised of the plan that officially doesn't exist just yet.

 

The tea leaves seem to be saying that, barring an apparently unlikely late boost to the available money in the Pac, they are losing schools. Some or all of the four corners will move to the B12, and UW/UO will either leave for the B1G or insist the new contract has an out that leaves that door open in the reasonably near future. SMU is apparently just academic and snobby enough to pass muster for the Bay Area schools, so the league will continue its existence, seat at the table, postseason bonanza, etc with the help of some seriously tier 3 (from a football standpoint) membership additions. The real timer for when this happens depends on the patience of the 'corners' schools. As long as they are willing to wait for a better deal, this can drag out. My guess is that they have already started counting their B12 payouts in their minds and will not let this go unsettled past this semester, likely less than that.

[bullet 1597]

Jason Scheer said he heard no numbers or deal was presented at the Pac 12 meeting yesterday.

 

Guess CU board doesn't have much to talk about today other than batteries.

[notre dame joe 189]

4 hours ago, LTbear said:

Not the full thing. I do somewhat kinda know someone who's been in them via a mutual friend. The summer meetings were not nearly as sensational as media would like them to be. 

My comment could be because I interpreted the tweeter differently than others, as though he expected something huge (like a conference change announcement) to come out of this next meeting. I'm just saying that's almost certainly not the case. But if I'm wrong, cool (I actually wish the PAC would survive, because I like regionality, but I'd mostly like to see this round of realignment end so we know where everyone is going to end up). 

Is it safe to say that nothing important will ever make it into the meeting minutes?

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Lets try and show a little empathy.  You'd probably be a deranged, drunken psychopath with nothing (cept footbawwwwww gaymesssssssss) to help your emotional well being rise above suicidal ideation too if you had to live in that state/town and go to school at OSU.  

In any university town, the people pelting you did not actually attend the university.  Plus the two schools have mellowed out.  Irish fans had no serious complaints in Columbus last year outside of OC Rees.

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

I agree fuck Colorado but if I’m the big 12, which we’re not because we’re obviously SEC, then I’d take them in a heartbeat to fold the pac 12 and cement yourself as the 3rd best conference. 

[Hagbard Celine 10874]

21 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

UA 247 guy:

 

they should call ross bjork

he's great at impromptu

[Thiefery 5013]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

FORMER ESPN President, resigned in Dec 2017 after getting extorted by his coke dealer. still super well thought of in the media world, currently exec chairman of DAZN. was genuinely a great president for ESPN and what he did for the company. legit one of the most plugged in people in sports media.

Guess this explains why DAZN sucks with it's new subscription fees

[bullet 1597]

1 hour ago, notre dame joe said:

Is it safe to say that nothing important will ever make it into the meeting minutes?

In any university town, the people pelting you did not actually attend the university.  Plus the two schools have mellowed out.  Irish fans had no serious complaints in Columbus last year outside of OC Rees.

Everything I've heard is that the battery throwing was mostly from the student section at CU.

[Al_4_ISU 12469]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I agree fuck Colorado but if I’m the big 12, which we’re not because we’re obviously SEC, then I’d take them in a heartbeat to fold the pac 12 and cement yourself as the 3rd best conference. 

I want the Big 12 to take CU.  I just think their fans are fucking twats.

[Rimbo 25985]

3 hours ago, KennyPowders said:

your women are ugly

 

6 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I want the Big 12 to take CU.  I just think their fans are fucking twats.

they never should've left

[Vertigo 20290]

22 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

Of course an ESPN exec would say this...

ESPN is the exclusive holder of all ACC rights. 

Curiously, the ACC currently distributes the least amount of money to its schools in comparison to the rest of the P5. The ACC schools are also locked into this contract under GOR until the year 2036! This move would be crazy.

I think the theory is that this would fundamentally alter the TV contract enough to force a new negotiating window, similar to how Texas/OU leaving and adding the 4 new schools enabled the B12 to go to the table early. The trick would be that feeding all of the mouths in the PAC would dilute the payout right back down, so there would need to be some culling, which might be problamatic in it's own right unless the conference formally folded and then reorganized under a new brand. 

[Vertigo 20290]

5 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

Fuck Colorado.  After going to a game in Boulder, they became my most disliked school in the Big XII by a mile.  Their fans were the absolute worst I've ever encountered anywhere.  My wife, who is not a passionate fan like I am, turned to me when we got back in the car and said, "We will never step foot on that campus ever again...I have a completely new opinion about CU now."  

When they left for the PAC, I said good riddance.

Let the Big XII take the two Arizona schools, get to 14, and then wait and watch what happens to the ACC.  I would love to get NC State and VA Tech to the Big 12.

There has been a lot of talk about UVA and UNC to the SEC, but Va Tech seems like a better fit even though they are not coupled with UNC to the same degree. Va Tech does roughly double the TV ratings as UVA in football. That would certainly be a win for the B12. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Vertigo

[Al_4_ISU 12469]

34 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

 

they never should've left

I'm repping both points.  

[Uncle Nate 2097]

 

 

[hook me 2103]

5 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I think the theory is that this would fundamentally alter the TV contract enough to force a new negotiating window, similar to how Texas/OU leaving and adding the 4 new schools enabled the B12 to go to the table early. The trick would be that feeding all of the mouths in the PAC would dilute the payout right back down, so there would need to be some culling, which might be problamatic in it's own right unless the conference formally folded and then reorganized under a new brand. 

The PAC12 GOR is over next year so there are no exit fees & no need for the conference to formally fold right? The "culling" would be more of the ACC simply not inviting the science nerds to sit at their table. If the ACC formally invites the 4 corners, UW, & UO that gets the ACC to 20 with each time zone represented & plenty of travel partners for the Western schools to not feel like WVU did in the Big 12. ESPN no longer has to worry about paying the PAC12 jack shit & the ACC can, presumably, take their TV rights back to the negotiating table with such large expansion. ESPN would either be forced to pay up or risk FOX getting involved at a later date. The biggest issues would likely be WSU & OSU wanting to tag along & politics that may get involved, but they don't seem like the type of fanbases that really care anyways so I don't see it. This would be one of the few ways that ESPN can get WC inventory & the ACC could satisfy its bigger members, at least until 2036 when they may bolt anyways. The remaining 4 Pac teams can invite all the misfit toys they want, sell their rights to Amazon & relish in the fact that they're so smart they pissed away tens of millions of dollars annually.

[Crockett 491]

Kliavkoff with media deal in hand, P12 members waiting to find out (source Cougarboard):

[Trojan Man 429]

7 minutes ago, hook me said:

The PAC12 GOR is over next year so there are no exit fees & no need for the conference to formally fold right? The "culling" would be more of the ACC simply not inviting the science nerds to sit at their table. If the ACC formally invites the 4 corners, UW, & UO that gets the ACC to 20 with each time zone represented & plenty of travel partners for the Western schools to not feel like WVU did in the Big 12. ESPN no longer has to worry about paying the PAC12 jack shit & the ACC can, presumably, take their TV rights back to the negotiating table with such large expansion. ESPN would either be forced to pay up or risk FOX getting involved at a later date. The biggest issues would likely be WSU & OSU wanting to tag along & politics that may get involved, but they don't seem like the type of fanbases that really care anyways so I don't see it. This would be one of the few ways that ESPN can get WC inventory & the ACC could satisfy its bigger members, at least until 2036 when they may bolt anyways. The remaining 4 Pac teams can invite all the misfit toys they want, sell their rights to Amazon & relish in the fact that they're so smart they pissed away tens of millions of dollars annually.

It would be funny to see all the Pac 12 schools that screeched about travel costs and the cruelty of making student athletes suffer through longer travel and the environmental impact of cross country flights and how dumb it will be for USC and UCLA to go to Rutgers and Maryland for conference games go play conference games at Wake Forest and Syracuse because they don't want to be associated with the much closer, icky flyover schools.  This ACC/Pac merger idea sounds like pure hopium from schools and fanbases that still haven't accepted their only realistic options are either remaining in a MWC/Pac hybrid or joining the Big 12.  I don't see the ACC opening its GOR to a challenge from Clemson and FSU by expanding.  I also don't see Oregon and Washington signing the ACC's GOR that goes to 2036 when both schools are convinced they'll get B1G invites by 2030 at the latest.

8 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I just read through a Colorado board, and that was something.  They're completely delusional about what they're going to get for a TV package, and also think the Big 12 will come calling.  Many posters are quite literally saying that they don't want to associate with Big 12 schools.

Pride indeed comes before the fall.

I browsed a few Pac 12 247 boards the other day and there is some serious delusion among certain fanbases.  Arizona and Arizona State fans seem pretty rational about where their school stands in the sport's hierarchy and what options are available to them but Colorado and Utah fans (especially Utah fans) are detached from reality.

Colorado fans think simply hiring a flashy coach who still hasn't coached a single down at the FBS level is enough to erase the last 20 years of complete dogshit football and their general apathy towards sports.  In their minds they're already racking up CFP bids in either the watered down Pac 12 or the Big 12 and they are a lock for a B1G invitation in the next decade or so.  Utah fans have forgotten they were a MWC afterthought a little over a decade ago and have the same belief as Colorado fans that it's just a matter of time until the B1G decides they must bring them onboard.  Judging by the way they look down at the Big 12 they have taken very well to the Pac 12's coastal elitism, like Utah isn't also a flyover state with an alarming number of "Last Gas Station For 174 Miles" road signs.  Interesting how none of this massive value these fanbases believe they offer is apparent during their current media negotiations but they'll somehow be able to add value to the richest conference in college athletics in the near future.

[Crockett 491]

1 hour ago, Trojan Man said:

... and Utah fans (especially Utah fans) are detached from reality.

...Utah fans have forgotten they were a MWC afterthought a little over a decade ago and have the same belief as Colorado fans that it's just a matter of time until the B1G decides they must bring them onboard.  Judging by the way they look down at the Big 12 they have taken very well to the Pac 12's coastal elitism...

It's nice when you are not the only one that sees it.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

I think Utah's has to be soley because BYU is already in the B12. They don't want to admit it might be the better place to be.

[bullet 1597]

29 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I think Utah's has to be soley because BYU is already in the B12. They don't want to admit it might be the better place to be.

They really do think they are the western version of Michigan in both academics and football despite their 45k seat stadium.

[billfromlaketravis 11519]

2 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

It would be funny to see all the Pac 12 schools that screeched about travel costs and the cruelty of making student athletes suffer through longer travel and the environmental impact of cross country flights and how dumb it will be for USC and UCLA to go to Rutgers and Maryland for conference games go play conference games at Wake Forest and Syracuse because they don't want to be associated with the much closer, icky flyover schools.  This ACC/Pac merger idea sounds like pure hopium from schools and fanbases that still haven't accepted their only realistic options are either remaining in a MWC/Pac hybrid or joining the Big 12.  I don't see the ACC opening its GOR to a challenge from Clemson and FSU by expanding.  I also don't see Oregon and Washington signing the ACC's GOR that goes to 2036 when both schools are convinced they'll get B1G invites by 2030 at the latest.

I browsed a few Pac 12 247 boards the other day and there is some serious delusion among certain fanbases.  Arizona and Arizona State fans seem pretty rational about where their school stands in the sport's hierarchy and what options are available to them but Colorado and Utah fans (especially Utah fans) are detached from reality.

Colorado fans think simply hiring a flashy coach who still hasn't coached a single down at the FBS level is enough to erase the last 20 years of complete dogshit football and their general apathy towards sports.  In their minds they're already racking up CFP bids in either the watered down Pac 12 or the Big 12 and they are a lock for a B1G invitation in the next decade or so.  Utah fans have forgotten they were a MWC afterthought a little over a decade ago and have the same belief as Colorado fans that it's just a matter of time until the B1G decides they must bring them onboard.  Judging by the way they look down at the Big 12 they have taken very well to the Pac 12's coastal elitism, like Utah isn't also a flyover state with an alarming number of "Last Gas Station For 174 Miles" road signs.  Interesting how none of this massive value these fanbases believe they offer is apparent during their current media negotiations but they'll somehow be able to add value to the richest conference in college athletics in the near future.

Andy Staples addressed this in a recent podcast. Both conferences believe the other is “detached from reality.”

PAC schools think there’s still $35-40 million a school out there. Big 12 schools are convinced that they’re the corner schools’ last and only life boat. 
 

I think the Big 12 schools are more right than the PAC. 
 

I think we’ll see the following: 

PAC gets exactly the same money as the Big 12 schools from Amazon/Apple/Ion through 2030. Nobody watches their games because nobody can find them, fans lose interest, and the PAC takes a shitty deal from ESPN to get back into the mainstream. This exactly what happened to the AAC with Stadium TV. 

['stache 21821]

8 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Andy Staples addressed this in a recent podcast. Both conferences believe the other is “detached from reality.”

PAC schools think there’s still $35-40 million a school out there. Big 12 schools are convinced that they’re the corner schools’ last and only life boat. 
 

I think the Big 12 schools are more right than the PAC. 
 

I think we’ll see the following: 

PAC gets exactly the same money as the Big 12 schools from Amazon/Apple/Ion through 2030. Nobody watches their games because nobody can find them, fans lose interest, and the PAC takes a shitty deal from ESPN to get back into the mainstream. This exactly what happened to the AAC with Stadium TV. 

I don't think any Big 12 team thinks this, it's that they think their offer is better than what the PAC will ultimately get. The fact that the PAC doesn't have a deal yet and is looking at a streaming heavy package is proof that they are the ones who are delusional. They aren't getting more than the XII and if they are even, its still going to be a streaming deal where ratings go to die. The money might be close enough that the PAC stays together, but nobody in the XII is saying they can't survive, but that the money, exposure, and general give a fuck is better in the XII and hope they agree.

[TKthunder2 4992]

34 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't think any Big 12 team thinks this, it's that they think their offer is better than what the PAC will ultimately get. The fact that the PAC doesn't have a deal yet and is looking at a streaming heavy package is proof that they are the ones who are delusional. They aren't getting more than the XII and if they are even, its still going to be a streaming deal where ratings go to die. The money might be close enough that the PAC stays together, but nobody in the XII is saying they can't survive, but that the money, exposure, and general give a fuck is better in the XII and hope they agree.

Noon- SEC/B12/ACC on ABC/ESPN, B1G on FOX

230/3- SEC on ABC, B12 on FOX, ACC on ESPN, B1G on CBS, and ND on NBC (6-7 times a season)

Prime - SEC/ACC/B12 on ESPN/ABC, B12 on FOX (after the MLB ends), B1G on NBC

Late - B12 on ESPN

Unless they can convince NBC to carry a package of games on weekends when they don’t have ND home games, the PAC12 is basically signing up for a heavy load of late night games (which their fans bitch about for some stupid reason) and a very crowded Primetime on ABC/ESPN that already has 3 P5 conferences to chose from, and a single slot on ESPN where they have a 50/50 chance against the ACC.

The Big 12 won. Unanimous decision. They have what appears to be a guaranteed spot on FOX at 230 for the 1st/2nd game of the week and opportunities on ABC/ESPN at noon and ABC/ESPN and some FOX at Prime Time. If the PAC gets similar or even slightly more money from a deal with NBC/Disney and a streamer like Amazon/Apple (a deal which would be amazing, all things considered) they won’t be better than the Big12. Even if they survive, the lack of exposure and interest from the losing the LA schools will cause them to wither and fade while the new Big 12 will surge.

[Gaffords 757]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

They really do think they are the western version of Michigan in both academics and football despite their 45k seat stadium.

It's the funniest thing ever to hear the Utah blowhards rattle off about the big 12's shitty academics, how they don't belong in the Big 12 and there's no way they would ever join the Big 12... 

As if they are Stanford or something.  The dumbasses don't even realize they would be around 4th in the Big 12 after we leave.  

The majority of sites don't even have them in the top 100 (105th).

[Crockett 491]

😂

[Trojan Man 429]

38 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I think Utah's has to be soley because BYU is already in the B12. They don't want to admit it might be the better place to be.

Definitely a big part of it, but get the fuck over yourselves.  It wouldn't be the first time BYU and Utah were conference mates.  Heated rivalries are a big part of what makes this sport special.  Embrace it.

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Andy Staples addressed this in a recent podcast. Both conferences believe the other is “detached from reality.”

PAC schools think there’s still $35-40 million a school out there. Big 12 schools are convinced that they’re the corner schools’ last and only life boat. 
 

I think the Big 12 schools are more right than the PAC. 
 

I think we’ll see the following: 

PAC gets exactly the same money as the Big 12 schools from Amazon/Apple/Ion through 2030. Nobody watches their games because nobody can find them, fans lose interest, and the PAC takes a shitty deal from ESPN to get back into the mainstream. This exactly what happened to the AAC with Stadium TV. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pac 12 sticks together with something in the 25-30M range running through 2030 or so, but I think it would be a prideful mistake for the schools with options to agree to this.  Realignment rewards the bold and punishes the timid.  If the Four Corner schools go to the Big 12 now they are taking control of their fate.  If they wait for the inevitable collapse of the Pac 12 (whenever Oregon and Washington get B1G invitations) they could be competing with ACC schools for a limited number of Big 12 invitations and then they're truly fucked.

12 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

the PAC12 is basically signing up for a heavy load of late night games (which their fans bitch about for some stupid reason)

Those late kickoffs are shit for exposure outside of the Pac 12's footprint because east of the Rockies only drunks and gamblers and CFB junkies are still watching that late.  CFP expansion and conference champion autobids will eliminate a lot of the downside of late kickoffs by diminishing the importance of beauty pageant rankings but they still aren't ideal.  2015 Stanford kicking off 7 of their 12 regular season games at 10 PM ET or later while Alabama was playing in the afternoon or primetime every week had a lot to do with Henry winning the Heisman that year while McCaffrey was the runner up.

It's a major reason why USC and UCLA should be opposed to further Western B1G expansion at this point.  Both schools will probably still have to host some 10:30 PM ET games against teams like Illinois and Rutgers, but when the upper and middle tier B1G teams come to town those games won't be relegated to the dreaded late night kickoff.  Playing the ho hum conference games late at night is much more palatable than playing big games late at night.  If Oregon and Washington join the games against them are 10:30 PM ET kickoff candidates, which would replace 3:30 or 7 ET games against Wisconsin and Penn State.

[TKthunder2 4992]

2 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

It's a major reason why USC and UCLA should be opposed to further Western B1G expansion at this point. 

I agree with the exposure issue, but as you said, outside of the player awards the beauty pageant is over with a 12 team playoff.

I disagree with the above. The B1G has 3 exclusive broadcast windows on FOX/CBS/NBC for 3 games and 3 games on BTN. That leaves 2 games (picks #4 & #5 of the week) to FS1. The #4 B1G game of the week is likely good to go on FS1 in the afternoon or primetime windows, game #5 not so much. A solid way to increase the value of game #5 is to utilize the dreaded Late Kick which increases the ratings for lesser content since there isn’t much competition. Getting a #5 game with USC/UCLA at home (when possible) and slotting it into the late window helps FOX/FS1 draw far more viewers than running the #5 game during afternoon/prime kicks.

I think USC/UCLA are going to see why the Big Ten makes money soon. Yes Ohio State or Michigan or Pedo (the ones that were excluded from the failed streaming deal) AT USC will be Afternoon/Prime but how about when you guys host the bottom dwellers that make up the other half or your new conference?

Rutgers
Maryland
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern
Illinois
Minnesota
Iowa

Assuming you don’t pull one of these as a rival (and they aren’t ranked) you’re still looking at three home games a year (two of these plus a weak OOC game) automatically relegated to the Late window and UCLA will see the same. BUT that’s only 6 games a year in a 13 week season.  Without adding UO/UW you’ll likely see occasional games against Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and possibly even the UCLA game pinned to that late window depending on how bad they are.

Adding UW/UO give you 4-5 more games (since OOC play overlaps) which rounds out 10-11 games versus the dregs of the B1G before FS1 even gets to the Big12 (which likely pulls the 4corner schools) or B1G West Coast v B1G West Coast games. Taking these 2 schools will have a ripple effect which allows FS1 to increase the Late kick P5 candidates from 3 (USC/UCLA/BYU) to 9 which significantly decreases their demand on USC.

So as is, I see USC playing in the Late window around 4 times per year regularly, with UO/UW that decreases to 3 and if they go full academia orgasm with Stanford/Cal too you’re probably looking at just 2 a year even if the BTN decides to add a Late window game with the additions since those would be regularly filled by the other West Coast teams.

[statsman 5472]

The fact of life for B12 schools is that Texas is the only member state that produces a surplus of FBS players. Every B12 school recruits Texas. (We’ll see if and how UCF and Cincinnati change that dynamic). 
 
Similarly, the fact of life for the PAC is that California is the only member state that produces a surplus of FBS players (Washington is probably around net-even, or close to it). Every PAC team recruits California. 
 
UA and ASU have to make an existential decision for their program- more money in B12, but recruiting gets totally refocused (and, brother, there is a lot of competition for players in Texas). 
 
USC and UCLA must be feeling good about future California recruiting dynamics, post-realignment. Sure, the B10 schools will come in and recruit, too, but the LA schools probably feel good about their offers in comparison. 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

The fact of life for B12 schools is that Texas is the only member state that produces a surplus of FBS players. Every B12 school recruits Texas. (We’ll see if and how UCF and Cincinnati change that dynamic). 

From a recruiting grounds standpoint those were two good additions to the conference. 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

2 minutes ago, statsman said:

UA and ASU have to make an existential decision for their program- more money in B12, but recruiting gets totally refocused (and, brother, there is a lot of competition for players in Texas). 

If I'm not mistaken UA/ASU have a pretty significant enrollment of California kids who didn't get into the LA schools or California schools? 

IMO they're in a good geographical location to recruit both stats well so long as they have a good coach.