Realignment talk not going away

[statsman 5481]

OU thought they would be in high cotton when they were on track for joining the PAC- getting to recruit Texas AND California. Even Texas was excited about the prospect of pulling a few recruits from there. 
 
Trojan Steve, how did y’all feel about that part of the proposed additions, at the time?

[oSuJeff97 3435]

12 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Those late kickoffs are shit for exposure outside of the Pac 12's footprint because east of the Rockies only drunks and gamblers and CFB junkies are still watching that late. 

The Venn diagram of this demo and Surly posters is a perfect circle.  

[oSuJeff97 3435]

3 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If I'm not mistaken UA/ASU have a pretty significant enrollment of California kids who didn't get into the LA schools or California schools? 

IMO they're in a good geographical location to recruit both stats well so long as they have a good coach.

Yeah not unlike OSU's connection to Texas.  Obviously Texas HS football is the lifeblood of our program, but also there are tons of "regular" students from Texas who attend OSU because they recruit the hell out of the DFW and Houston metros for kids who are good students but maybe can't get in to Texas or A&M.

[Vertigo 20332]

7 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah not unlike OSU's connection to Texas.  Obviously Texas HS football is the lifeblood of our program, but also there are tons of "regular" students from Texas who attend OSU because they recruit the hell out of the DFW and Houston metros for kids who are good students but maybe can't get in to Texas or A&M.

If I am being honest, I think OSU and possibly Tech has the most to gain if UA/ASU Join the B12. Arizona has some really good talent, and for years it has all gone out of state. With more Arizona eyes on the B12, OSU is a pretty logical landing spot for Arizona kids that might be just below the tier 1 guys that USC has traditionally feasted on. 

[Al_4_ISU 12486]

Weirdly enough, ISU has recruited AZ fairly well.  Brock Purdy's from Phoenix.

[Jabberwocky 1666]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"Three high-ranking industry sources in the last week told CBS Sports they believe Yormark is going to be successful in luring at least some combination of Four Corners schools. Some went farther speculating the Pac-12 was a couple of weeks away from dissolving."

Edited March 9, 2023 by Jabberwocky

[Jabberwocky 1666]

 

[BurntOrange&White 40021]

13 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"Three high-ranking industry sources in the last week told CBS Sports they believe Yormark is going to be successful in luring at least some combination of Four Corners schools. Some went farther speculating the Pac-12 was a couple of weeks away from dissolving."

[Josef Pwag 1741]

9 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

[Vertigo 20332]

34 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

SMU blue balls might be the best part of all of this. 

['stache 21871]

41 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"Three high-ranking industry sources in the last week told CBS Sports they believe Yormark is going to be successful in luring at least some combination of Four Corners schools. Some went farther speculating the Pac-12 was a couple of weeks away from dissolving."

If UU is really being snobby, let SDSU take their place. Get's a team in SoCal (Cal in general), with a new stadium, and seem to be committed to playing at a higher level. They are as attractive, in my view, as UCF or Cincy.

[BurntOrange&White 40021]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

If UU is really being snobby, let SDSU take their place. Get's a team in SoCal (Cal in general), with a new stadium, and seem to be committed to playing at a higher level. They are as attractive, in my view, as UCF or Cincy.

No, they’re not

[TrashMaster G 17601]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:40 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

Apparently big 12 leadership are having their annual meetings yesterday and today. Guy on horn said he wouldn’t be surprised to see big 12 he aggressive coming out of those 

They should be.  This is their moment to solidify the B12 as the unquestioned #3 in the pecking order.

And if CU gets snooty about returning to the B12, they can enjoy their nice deck chair on a sinking ship. Cuz ain't nobody else going to throw them a line. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by TrashMaster G

[TrashMaster G 17601]

44 minutes ago, 'stache said:

If UU is really being snobby, let SDSU take their place. Get's a team in SoCal (Cal in general), with a new stadium, and seem to be committed to playing at a higher level. They are as attractive, in my view, as UCF or Cincy.

Get's?

[Laxtonto 12121]

Utah to me is one of the must haves for the Big 12 in this because it will provide a legit rivalry that is going to be an instant checkbox for the late night slot every year. Utes vs windowcoug will be something you can schedule mid season and it becomes an instant “yeah it’s late and I’ve probably had a few too many, but is there still a good game on” big ratings draw.

One of the things that drives viewership is going to be is this worth staying up for, and frankly watching teams that loath each other and all of the angst, both on and off the field, helps drive it.

 

In many ways one of the problems with the current Big 12 post Tex/OU is that there isn’t enough hate/rivalry that comes through on the screen. The Utes/WindowCoug and Ariz/ASU add two more of those to the conference. It isn’t the level of the iconic rivalries that the SEC and B1G looks to have a monopoly on for the most part, but there will be enough to justify a late night slot and an OK audience.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

6 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Utah to me is one of the must haves for the Big 12 in this because it will provide a legit rivalry that is going to be an instant checkbox for the late night slot every year. Utes vs windowcoug will be something you can schedule mid season and it becomes an instant “yeah it’s late and I’ve probably had a few too many, but is there still a good game on” big ratings draw.

One of the things that drives viewership is going to be is this worth staying up for, and frankly watching teams that loath each other and all of the angst, both on and off the field, helps drive it.

 

In many ways one of the problems with the current Big 12 post Tex/OU is that there isn’t enough hate/rivalry that comes through on the screen. The Utes/WindowCoug and Ariz/ASU add two more of those to the conference. It isn’t the level of the iconic rivalries that the SEC and B1G looks to have a monopoly on for the most part, but there will be enough to justify a late night slot and an OK audience.

Why midseason rather than end of sesason?

Otherwise, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  This is why I hope Tech-OSU is ensured an every year game...and why I am so upset we aren't playing them in 2023.  It's a natural rivalry.  OSU has stolen nearly all of their traditions from Tech, and we like to point that fact out to them. 

Big 12 made a huge mistake not having those two teams play in 2023.

[BachelorTrek 3061]

2 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

"Three high-ranking industry sources in the last week told CBS Sports they believe Yormark is going to be successful in luring at least some combination of Four Corners schools. Some went farther speculating the Pac-12 was a couple of weeks away from dissolving."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/

"The first-year boss sees possibilities for his league reflected this week by the Big 12 Tournament. Thanks to Yormark, the scene involves way more than basketball.

By Saturday night, Shaquille O'Neal (hired by the Big 12) will be sitting courtside at the T-Mobile Center prior to his Saturday night DJ appearance in conjunction with the event. That's after a Friday night concert by rapper Fat Joe."

How the HELL did Fat Joe get pulled into this discussion??!!??  Lulz.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by BachelorTrek

[Laxtonto 12121]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Why midseason rather than end of sesason?

Otherwise, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  This is why I hope Tech-OSU is ensured an every year game...and why I am so upset we aren't playing them in 2023.  It's a natural rivalry.  OSU has stolen nearly all of their traditions from Tech, and we like to point that fact out to them. 

Big 12 made a huge mistake not having those two teams play in 2023.

Why waste a captive audience during rivalry week when there are only so am y late night slots? 
 

I would go as far as considering rethinking rivalry week in the schedule in general from a marketability standpoint.

If you know there are only X many games that can get you guranteed decent numbers for the late night slot, why waste them all on the same weekend? Having BYU/UU, ASU/Ariz, Kan/KSU all on the same rivalry weekend burns a game at min that wont get aired on a decent slot otherwise.

 

There isnt enough "shit, I need to watch that" games in the Big12 inventory to waste them. I would try to set up a big rivalry every week and then now you have the networks with enough flexibility that if natural selection of ranked matchups dont work, you still have an interesting matchup to sell. 

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

7 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If I'm not mistaken UA/ASU have a pretty significant enrollment of California kids who didn't get into the LA schools or California schools? 
IMO they're in a good geographical location to recruit both stats well so long as they have a good coach.

 

PHX->LAX 390 miles

TUS->LAX 507 miles

DFW->LNK 624 miles

corn falling of the edge of the recruiting flat ocean coinciding with doctor tom's incipient vocal diarrhea is something for the AZ schools to consider, but they've already lost the annual game in LA, so the consideration is before them and self-evident

[DanTheHorn 4966]

29 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

 

There isnt enough "shit, I need to watch that" games in the Big12 inventory to waste them. I would try to set up a big rivalry every week and then now you have the networks with enough flexibility that if natural selection of ranked matchups dont work, you still have an interesting matchup to sell. 

B1G and SEC will be looking to make sure they have a big games almost every week. So if SEC continues to play the sisters of the poor one week before rivalry week then that would be a good time to play your top rivalries.

Edited March 9, 2023 by DanTheHorn

[DFW Horn 6211]

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

B1G and SEC will be looking to make sure they have a big games almost every week. So if SEC continues to play the sisters of the poor one week before rivalry week then that would be a good time to play your top rivalries.

SEC is getting away from Cupcake Week with their new, 9-game league schedule.

Edited March 9, 2023 by DFW Horn

[bullet 1599]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

Utah to me is one of the must haves for the Big 12 in this because it will provide a legit rivalry that is going to be an instant checkbox for the late night slot every year. Utes vs windowcoug will be something you can schedule mid season and it becomes an instant “yeah it’s late and I’ve probably had a few too many, but is there still a good game on” big ratings draw.

One of the things that drives viewership is going to be is this worth staying up for, and frankly watching teams that loath each other and all of the angst, both on and off the field, helps drive it.

 

In many ways one of the problems with the current Big 12 post Tex/OU is that there isn’t enough hate/rivalry that comes through on the screen. The Utes/WindowCoug and Ariz/ASU add two more of those to the conference. It isn’t the level of the iconic rivalries that the SEC and B1G looks to have a monopoly on for the most part, but there will be enough to justify a late night slot and an OK audience.

Well if the Big 12 adds the 4 corners, does Washington St. become the Crimson & Grey window cougars?

[IDIOTsavant 8502]

4 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

The Venn diagram of this demo and Surly posters is a perfect circle.  

[Deej 76925]

5 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

The Venn diagram of this demo and Surly posters is a perfect circle.  

Yeah, but we have to start drinking for 11 am kickoffs so early in the morning that even we are passed out 15 hours later. 

[Trojan Man 429]

14 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

I agree with the exposure issue, but as you said, outside of the player awards the beauty pageant is over with a 12 team playoff.

I disagree with the above. The B1G has 3 exclusive broadcast windows on FOX/CBS/NBC for 3 games and 3 games on BTN. That leaves 2 games (picks #4 & #5 of the week) to FS1. The #4 B1G game of the week is likely good to go on FS1 in the afternoon or primetime windows, game #5 not so much. A solid way to increase the value of game #5 is to utilize the dreaded Late Kick which increases the ratings for lesser content since there isn’t much competition. Getting a #5 game with USC/UCLA at home (when possible) and slotting it into the late window helps FOX/FS1 draw far more viewers than running the #5 game during afternoon/prime kicks.

I think USC/UCLA are going to see why the Big Ten makes money soon. Yes Ohio State or Michigan or Pedo (the ones that were excluded from the failed streaming deal) AT USC will be Afternoon/Prime but how about when you guys host the bottom dwellers that make up the other half or your new conference?

Rutgers
Maryland
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern
Illinois
Minnesota
Iowa

Assuming you don’t pull one of these as a rival (and they aren’t ranked) you’re still looking at three home games a year (two of these plus a weak OOC game) automatically relegated to the Late window and UCLA will see the same. BUT that’s only 6 games a year in a 13 week season.  Without adding UO/UW you’ll likely see occasional games against Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and possibly even the UCLA game pinned to that late window depending on how bad they are.

Adding UW/UO give you 4-5 more games (since OOC play overlaps) which rounds out 10-11 games versus the dregs of the B1G before FS1 even gets to the Big12 (which likely pulls the 4corner schools) or B1G West Coast v B1G West Coast games. Taking these 2 schools will have a ripple effect which allows FS1 to increase the Late kick P5 candidates from 3 (USC/UCLA/BYU) to 9 which significantly decreases their demand on USC.

So as is, I see USC playing in the Late window around 4 times per year regularly, with UO/UW that decreases to 3 and if they go full academia orgasm with Stanford/Cal too you’re probably looking at just 2 a year even if the BTN decides to add a Late window game with the additions since those would be regularly filled by the other West Coast teams.

Like I said, I won't complain if the only late games are the cupcake noncon games and one or two of the underwhelming conference games.  Games against the Rutgers/Indiana type opponents will be duds no matter what time they're played.  The early season MWC warmup games are the one time a late kickoff is ideal because it feels like a heat wave always hits LA that time of year and makes going to the games unbearable, yet those usually end up kicking off in the middle of the day.

Part of the appeal of joining the B1G is that the best conference games won't be buried in the late night slot.  It's not just games involving Cal and Colorado and Washington State that are played late.  Last year Utah/Oregon, Washington/UCLA, USC/Oregon State and Oregon State/Washington were all in the Pac 12 After Dark slot.  Beating Washington was arguably UCLA's best win of the season but nobody saw it since it was not only late but also on a Friday night.  That Oregon State game was by far USC's best defensive performance of the year and an impressive come from behind road win in a place where USC has historically struggled but since it was late and on the Pac 12 Network it's like it never happened.  In the B1G games against Utah/Oregon/Washington tier teams, or games against programs like Oregon State that overachieve by winning 10 games and finish the year ranked #17, will have much better exposure.

Home games are only half of the equation.  As it is now, the only B1G conference road game USC/UCLA will play that can be scheduled for the late slot is each other.  Every trip east will be played in normal hours, regardless of caliber of opponent.  Adding more Western teams means more late night windows are available and those windows will be disproportionately filled by USC/UCLA because the LA schools will have to play them every year and because the Eastern teams will bitch about late kickoffs even more than I do.  Of course, the flip side of that coin is the potential for noon ET/9 AM PT kickoffs but I think the worrying about that is overblown.  USC practices at 7 AM so the players will be ready to play.  Football fans out West still watch NFL games in the 1 PM ET/10 AM PT window so the concept of morning football isn't new to anyone on the West Coast.  I know further expansion West is inevitable for the B1G but I'd like to at least get through the next media contract before adding any more of them.  Hopefully by then everything is streaming.  That means kickoff times won't matter since there is no limit to streaming windows like there is for TV windows.  Games can be scheduled for times that are most beneficial for the schools and their fanbases instead of TV.  When games are on ESPN+ ESPN allows the home team to choose the kickoff time.

[DFW Horn 6211]

 

[hook me 2103]

1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

SEC is getting away from Cupcake Week with their new, 9-game league schedule.

Most SEC teams play either 2 cupcakes & 1 meh school or 3 cupcakes each year to go along with a P5 school. Adding an SEC game isn't going to take away the fact that they (we) have cupcakes, they'll (we'll) just have less of them most likely.

[CustersDoctor 584]

21 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

 only drunks and gamblers and CFB junkies are still watching that late. 

 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

32 minutes ago, CustersDoctor said:

 

I salute you, sir!  Excellent work. 

[TrashMaster G 17601]

6 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

Utah to me is one of the must haves for the Big 12 in this because it will provide a legit rivalry that is going to be an instant checkbox for the late night slot every year. Utes vs windowcoug will be something you can schedule mid season and it becomes an instant “yeah it’s late and I’ve probably had a few too many, but is there still a good game on” big ratings draw.

One of the things that drives viewership is going to be is this worth staying up for, and frankly watching teams that loath each other and all of the angst, both on and off the field, helps drive it.

 

In many ways one of the problems with the current Big 12 post Tex/OU is that there isn’t enough hate/rivalry that comes through on the screen. The Utes/WindowCoug and Ariz/ASU add two more of those to the conference. It isn’t the level of the iconic rivalries that the SEC and B1G looks to have a monopoly on for the most part, but there will be enough to justify a late night slot and an OK audience.

CU vs The Irate 8 also fits this bill.  At least the first few years.

[Gidnik 3285]

Utah AD

[Laxtonto 12121]

8 minutes ago, Gidnik said:

Utah AD

All I’m going to say is that any real talk about conference realignment is way above the ADs pay grade…

[LTbear 4171]

I've been surprised how uppity Utah fans have seemed online. I'm not saying they have no chance at the B1G, but I'd wager they are, at minimum, about 4th or 5th on the B1G's wishlist (including ND and the PAC schools), and maybe as low as 7th (not even counting potential ACC targets). 

[Al_4_ISU 12486]

Utah is not going to the Big 10.

Their options are the Big 12 or the Pac.  Or back to the Mountain West.

[Laxtonto 12121]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

I've been surprised how uppity Utah fans have seemed online. I'm not saying they have no chance at the B1G, but I'd wager they are, at minimum, about 4th or 5th on the B1G's wishlist (including ND and the PAC schools), and maybe as low as 7th (not even counting potential ACC targets). 

ND

UNC, UVA

UW,Oregon

FSU, Miami, Utah, Stanford, Cal

 

I guess the real question is who is the equivalent to Utah in the B1G eyes? I have pretty much listed them as a flat “no, not possible” at this point and moved on. They are either in what is left of the zombie P12 without USC/UCLA or in the B12. That is their ceiling.

[LTbear 4171]

I was being generous y'all 

[BurntOrange&White 40021]

22 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

ND

UNC, UVA

UW,Oregon

FSU, Miami, Utah, Stanford, Cal

 

I guess the real question is who is the equivalent to Utah in the B1G eyes? I have pretty much listed them as a flat “no, not possible” at this point and moved on. They are either in what is left of the zombie P12 without USC/UCLA or in the B12. That is their ceiling.

Utah, Stanford and Cal lmao



ND is the prize SEC and BIG wants. 2030 will be interesting time for them.

UNC/UVA have geographic location SEC likes.
 

FSU/Miami/Clemson would be good pickup for SEC or BIG.


Stanford/Cal, until they show any fucking desire what so ever to prioritize football have no seat at a table. This shit isn't about minor sports(Stanford) or shit football program(cal)

 

 

 

If Big 12 can pull one of Arizona or Colorado then Arizona State is sure to follow Arizona and Utah AD is sitting there looking like a dumbass when Utah inevitably follows them as well as Colorado.

Edited March 10, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Crockett 494]

Utah's whole identity is the P12 and that they have been a "peer" of Stanford, Cal, UCLA, UW, etc. When they got into the P12 you saw P12 stickers on cars all over the place. Driving from Utah County (where Provo is located) north to the neighboring Salt Lake County with Salt Lake City in it, there was a billboard placed just inside the county line stating "Welcome to P12 country". 

This is a very confusing and scary time for Utah, so be patient with them as they process the stages of grief. 

 

[Saint Austin 745]

44 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

ND

UNC, UVA

UW,Oregon

FSU, Miami, Utah, Stanford, Cal

 

I guess the real question is who is the equivalent to Utah in the B1G eyes? I have pretty much listed them as a flat “no, not possible” at this point and moved on. They are either in what is left of the zombie P12 without USC/UCLA or in the B12. That is their ceiling.

I'll play:

Notre Dame


UNC, UVA, and Duke

Washington and Oregon

Cal, Stanford, and Colorado

Georgia Tech

Arizona, Utah, and Kansas

Boston College, Miami, Pitt, and Syracuse

[end of list]




 

[Laxtonto 12121]

6 minutes ago, Crockett said:

Utah's whole identity is the P12 and that they have been a "peer" of Stanford, Cal, UCLA, UW, etc. When they got into the P12 you saw P12 stickers on cars all over the place. Driving from Utah County (where Provo is located) north to the neighboring Salt Lake County with Salt Lake City in it, there was a billboard placed just inside the county line stating "Welcome to P12 country". 

This is a very confusing and scary time for Utah, so be patient with them as they process the stages of grief. 

 

Sounds a lot like aggy and the SEC...

[Gidnik 3285]

23 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Sounds a lot like aggy and the SEC...

Was just about to say this. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

1 hour ago, LTbear said:

I've been surprised how uppity Utah fans have seemed online.

 

Agreed.  I was indifferent to them before, but now I've grown to really dislike them.  Kind of reminds me of how aggy started acting after they got their AAU membership...all of a sudden they've been the equivalent of Harvard since their inception and all that.

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3293]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

Sounds a lot like aggy and the SEC...

Only problem for Utah is "they ain't even PAC12" just doesn't quite sound as good as "they ain't even SEC"

 

[DFW Horn 6211]

17 hours ago, hook me said:

Most SEC teams play either 2 cupcakes & 1 meh school or 3 cupcakes each year to go along with a P5 school. Adding an SEC game isn't going to take away the fact that they (we) have cupcakes, they'll (we'll) just have less of them most likely.

It depends on how you define "cupcake". I should've clarified - FCS teams or lower.

As you know, UT doesn't schedule FCS opponents. aggy will schedule at least 2, when possible. The fact that SEC teams scheduled that shit (the week before their rivals in November) gamed the system.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

15 hours ago, CustersDoctor said:

 

LOL fantastic. 

[Al_4_ISU 12486]

Yeah, take the AZ schools, CU, and Wazzu.  Let Utah rot.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

10 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Yeah, take the AZ schools, CU, and Wazzu.  Let Utah rot.

Utah's self worth might be over-inflated, but they are still twice as valuable as CU. 

['stache 21871]

What is supposedly so great about Utah? Some football success and AAU? They were MWC just ten years ago. They are firmly in the Big 12 status of program, successful and somewhere below the bluebloods programs. The Big 10 isn’t looking for that, it’s Big 12 or PAC/MWC. They can’t realistically think the Big 10 is calling so are they holding our for a possible ACC merger?

Edited March 10, 2023 by 'stache

[LTbear 4171]

35 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Utah's self worth might be over-inflated, but they are still twice as valuable as CU. 

When the Big XII already has BYU? I'm not so sure. Although owning the Holy War would be nice.

Edited March 10, 2023 by LTbear

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

Just now, LTbear said:

When the Big XII already has BYU? I'm not so sure.

I think having BYU actually makes Utah more valuable to the Big 12. At least BYU vs Utah is a game I'd probably watch if the game had actual stakes. Don't think I'd be as apt to tune in for a September matchup of Big 12 BYU vs Mountain West Utah. Not sure exactly what Colorado brings to the table, other than maybe replacing Kansas as the doormat.