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Posted
  On 7/25/2023 at 10:47 PM, CustersDoctor said:

1. They literally have a $100,000,000 tied up in it. 2. It actually functions really well and looks good. 3. They have a lot of tie ins. Like it comes with some cable packages and its free on a lot of cell phone plans. 4. Streaming really will be a big thing someday and the PACX will rue the day if they torch it.

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Link?

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:11 AM, Jasper_Jester said:

$100M doesn't sound like a lot. Split 12 ways? Is that really it? 

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Its an anchor right now due to, as you mention, the sunkin cost fallacy.     Could they write it off, yes, but most of these schools can barely weather a buyout, let alone owing more.  But, I don't think they OWE $100m.   What they lose is their investment in it.   So if Colorado leaves, and the Pac sells the PACN for $100m, now they're splitting it 9 ways instead of 12 and Colorado nets nothing.   My guess is someone is floating a potential sale, they see the value of this extra cash, and are unwilling to move until they know its real or not.   If I'm the commish though, i'm not saying its real or not until after the last date you can give notice to ensure you're stuck with the deal.

They need to consolidate it at a minimum and put less football on it, because the more they put on it the less they can sell.   The B12 sells all their games and got $32m.   That means the Pac needs to sell 60% of their games (40% currently goes to PacN) for $29m, since the remaining 40% is only paying out $3-4m currently.   Or, they need it to pay out $10m/team, since 60% of the B12 deal is $20m.

Here's part of the problem -subs per channel (carriage):

Pac-12/National: 14.8 million ($0.13/mo)
Pac-12/Los Angeles: 3.0 million ($0.73)
Pac-12/Bay Area: 2.1 million ($0.80)
Pac-12/Washington: 1.1 million ($0.98)
Pac-12/Mountain: 1.0 million ($0.53)
Pac-12/Arizona: 0.7 million ($0.91)
Pac-12/Oregon: 0.6 million ($0.52)

Wilner wrote this in March of 2021:

  Quote

Multiple industry experts believe the conference should consider every option, including:

— Fold the Pac-12 regional networks, leaving only the national feed and creating a revised model that resembles the Big Ten and SEC networks.

— Shutter the Pac-12 Networks entirely, including the national network, and sell the content, which includes about 35 football games, to a major media company or perhaps a streaming service (for example: DAZN).

— Attempt to negotiate a new Tier 1 media deal immediately.

The third option would be the most lucrative but is also the trickiest to accomplish.

The Tier 1 agreements with ESPN and Fox expire in the summer of 2024 — the same end-point as the Pac-12 Networks distribution agreements with Comcast, DISH and others.

But 40 months is a long time to wait for a conference that already lags many of its peers by tens of millions of dollars annually in media rights revenue.

Industry experts and conference sources believe the Pac-12 cannot sit back as the resource gap expands.

In their view, Scott’s successor, who’s expected to be in place this summer, should immediately begin conversations with current media partners and scour the marketplace to assess the demand for Pac-12 content.

Whether ESPN and Fox would be willing to rip up the current deals is not known. But one source, who has spent a lifetime in the sports-media space, offered the following assessment: “It’s all solvable.”

An expedited Tier 1 negotiation could allow the Pac-12’s next contract cycle to begin in 2023, providing the athletic departments with needed cash 12 months ahead of schedule.

“They need to go early because the situation is getting worse,’’ a source said.

Here’s how:

ESPN, the most influential media entity in college sports, has lost approximately 10 million subscribers in the past five years, limiting its ability to purchase the broadcast rights to the top professional and collegiate sports leagues.

At the same time, it reportedly agreed to spend $300 million annually to broadcast the SEC’s ‘Game of the Week’ package. Add its ownership of the SEC Network, and the media giant’s plan is clear.

“In a diminishing ESPN economy,” a source said, “they are allocating a greater percentage of dollars to the SEC.”

Equally concerning to the Pac-12 is the timing of upcoming negotiations:

The Big Ten’s contracts expire in the summer of 2023, giving it access to ESPN and Fox dollars before the Pac-12.

How much cash, and how many premium broadcast windows, will remain after the heavyweights have fed at the trough?

“The Pac-12’s at a critical point,” a source said. “There’s only so much money to go around. It might be best to move to the front of the line.”

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Sound familiar?

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Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:50 AM, Hurtlocker said:

Its an anchor right now due to, as you mention, the sunkin cost fallacy.     Could they write it off, yes, but most of these schools can barely weather a buyout, let alone owing more.  But, I don't think they OWE $100m.   What they lose is their investment in it.   So if Colorado leaves, and the Pac sells the PACN for $100m, now they're splitting it 9 ways instead of 12 and Colorado nets nothing.   My guess is someone is floating a potential sale, they see the value of this extra cash, and are unwilling to move until they know its real or not.   If I'm the commish though, i'm not saying its real or not until after the last date you can give notice to ensure you're stuck with the deal.

They need to consolidate it at a minimum and put less football on it, because the more they put on it the less they can sell.   The B12 sells all their games and got $32m.   That means the Pac needs to sell 60% of their games (40% currently goes to PacN) for $29m, since the remaining 40% is only paying out $3-4m currently.   Or, they need it to pay out $10m/team, since 60% of the B12 deal is $20m.

Here's part of the problem -subs per channel (carriage):

Pac-12/National: 14.8 million ($0.13/mo)
Pac-12/Los Angeles: 3.0 million ($0.73)
Pac-12/Bay Area: 2.1 million ($0.80)
Pac-12/Washington: 1.1 million ($0.98)
Pac-12/Mountain: 1.0 million ($0.53)
Pac-12/Arizona: 0.7 million ($0.91)
Pac-12/Oregon: 0.6 million ($0.52)

Wilner wrote this in March of 2021:

Sound familiar?

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That Wilner March 21 reference is great, especially the part about, 'they need to go early, things could get worse'. Like you could lose USC & UCLA. Or while you're slow walking your negotiations the Big12 gets their deal done which locked up some of the TV slots that you were hoping for or you find out that you viewership claims were inflated meaning A. Your conference value is a little less than you claimed. B. You owe Comcast $50mill. A lot has happened since 03-21.

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Posted
  On 7/25/2023 at 5:46 PM, Uncle Nate said:

Pac 12 failure is on the presidents, and I'm seeing 10 university presidents who seem completely incapable of making decisions, much less smart ones.  Maybe it's by design and a couple of these presidents are playing 4D chess, but I doubt it.

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4D chess would have already resulted in the announcement of a linear deal that pays more than the big12

klittkoff stating in public that he needs 10 GOR signatures = 10 presidents with acumen measured in negative numbers

he is taking them for a ride every single paycheck

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Posted
  On 7/25/2023 at 6:36 PM, Uncle Nate said:

It's an interesting thing to watch play out.  I think Cal and Stanford are leaning to just being the West Coast version of the Ivy League, and CU is having an identity crisis on that front because they want to be in a Cal-Stanford Ivy League but at the same time they aren't willing to throw in the towel on the money sports.  UU is delusional in thinking they can have both.  Oregon and Udub just want to bide their time until a Big 10 invite comes along.  ASU has a bit of CU identity crisis happening, but to a lesser degree.  I honestly think Arizona knows what's best but is hesitant to make the move, and OSU and WSU are just praying it stays together because they literally have no other options other than to be relegated to G5.

I never thought I would see the day where there was a more dysfunctional athletic conference than that of the Big 12 back when Beebe was in charge, but here we are.  

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this is the best summary yet written

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:50 AM, Hurtlocker said:

Its an anchor right now due to, as you mention, the sunkin cost fallacy.     Could they write it off, yes, but most of these schools can barely weather a buyout, let alone owing more.  But, I don't think they OWE $100m.   What they lose is their investment in it.   So if Colorado leaves, and the Pac sells the PACN for $100m, now they're splitting it 9 ways instead of 12 and Colorado nets nothing.   My guess is someone is floating a potential sale, they see the value of this extra cash, and are unwilling to move until they know its real or not.   If I'm the commish though, i'm not saying its real or not until after the last date you can give notice to ensure you're stuck with the deal.

They need to consolidate it at a minimum and put less football on it, because the more they put on it the less they can sell.   The B12 sells all their games and got $32m.   That means the Pac needs to sell 60% of their games (40% currently goes to PacN) for $29m, since the remaining 40% is only paying out $3-4m currently.   Or, they need it to pay out $10m/team, since 60% of the B12 deal is $20m.

Here's part of the problem -subs per channel (carriage):

Pac-12/National: 14.8 million ($0.13/mo)
Pac-12/Los Angeles: 3.0 million ($0.73)
Pac-12/Bay Area: 2.1 million ($0.80)
Pac-12/Washington: 1.1 million ($0.98)
Pac-12/Mountain: 1.0 million ($0.53)
Pac-12/Arizona: 0.7 million ($0.91)
Pac-12/Oregon: 0.6 million ($0.52)

Wilner wrote this in March of 2021:

Sound familiar?

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Clearly, Klownkoff never read Wilner's article, as the PAC would be in exponentially better shape if he had.  Wilner was an actual journalist back then who had some very good ideas.

 

Also from the Wilner piece, I brought this idea up the other day, and it's really bad news for the PAC:

  Quote

The Tier 1 agreements with ESPN and Fox expire in the summer of 2024 — the same end-point as the Pac-12 Networks distribution agreements with Comcast, DISH and others.

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With USC and UCLA gone and cord cutting running rampant, how do you think the WACNet carriage renewal negotiations are going with the MSOs like Comcast and Charter ?  Not good- not good at all.  

The idiotic Presidents who enabled Champagne Larry and have trusted Klownkoff have really dug their own graves.

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Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 11:25 AM, Francisco 2.0 said:

But it would be absolutely hilarious all the same, and fitting for the Pac's death blow to be delivered via the Twitter account of a collegiate mascot.

 

 

 

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It would be absolutely hilarious, but the Big 10 has never been sloppy through the years on this shit.  Even the SEC fucked up (thank Christ, or we'd probably be in the same boat as the Pac) thanks to Aggy squealing in hopes that UT got blocked.

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 12:41 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

It would be absolutely hilarious, but the Big 10 has never been sloppy through the years on this shit.  Even the SEC fucked up (thank Christ, or we'd probably be in the same boat as the Pac) thanks to Aggy squealing in hopes that UT got blocked.

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The SEC knew what ATM was going to do from the jump. They didn’t screw that up, ATM losing it was a feature, not a bug. The SEC did a great job, along with UT and OU, of keeping a lid on the whole thing until it was fait accompli and they had to let ATM know. Now, ATM going to the histrionic lengths they went to in order to embarrass themselves immediately? That might have been a surprise to everyone but us. 

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Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:28 PM, closetojumping said:

The SEC knew what ATM was going to do from the jump. They didn’t screw that up, ATM losing it was a feature, not a bug. The SEC did a great job, along with UT and OU, of keeping a lid on the whole thing until it was fait accompli and they had to let ATM know. Now, ATM going to the histrionic lengths they went to in order to embarrass themselves immediately? That might have been a surprise to everyone but us. 

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In the list of embarrassing things the Aggies have done their tantrum over this is legitimately top 3 all time right? From their chancellor, to president to ad were crying 

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:36 PM, Josef Pwag said:

Explain

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From what I've read here, the original plan was that the SEC and UT/OU were going to stay quiet until 2022 and then announce it, probably around the same time that USC/UCLA to the Big 10 dropped.

If we don't find out you're leaving in 2021, the status quo maintains with Bowlsby, and the Big 12 gets the rug pulled out at the same time as the Pac 12 with an incompetent old world leader manning the ship.

Because that bomb got dropped on us '21, it forced us to take action, add schools, and ushered Bowlsby to the finish line while we started finding a better replacement.  Meanwhile, the Pac sat around laughing, puffing their chest about the Alliance, and punting on an opportunity to add all those public schools with more passionate fanbases than what they had because of culture and politics.  When the Pac got their rug pulled out last year, we had closed in on Yormark, added 4 schools, and had a pretty damn good TV deal in place before they had even figured out what happened.

If UT and OU leave in '22 with Bowlsby still in charge, the Big 12's a hell of a lot bigger mess.  IMO.

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Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 1:28 PM, closetojumping said:

The SEC knew what ATM was going to do from the jump. They didn’t screw that up, ATM losing it was a feature, not a bug. The SEC did a great job, along with UT and OU, of keeping a lid on the whole thing until it was fait accompli and they had to let ATM know. Now, ATM going to the histrionic lengths they went to in order to embarrass themselves immediately? That might have been a surprise to everyone but us. 

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I had got the impression that the SEC wanted to sit on this move for another yearish longer than they did, but Aggy forced it into the public eye early.

Like you said, maybe they assumed that from the get go.  But it definitely worked to the advantage of the Hateful 8 to be the first ones in that spot, as opposed to what the Pac 10 is dealing with.

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

Because that bomb got dropped on us '21, it forced us to take action, add schools, and ushered Bowlsby to the finish line while we started finding a better replacement.  Meanwhile, the Pac sat around laughing, puffing their chest about the Alliance, and punting on an opportunity to add all those public schools with more passionate fanbases than what they had because of culture and politics.  When the Pac got their rug pulled out last year, we had closed in on Yormark, added 4 schools, and had a pretty damn good TV deal in place before they had even figured out what happened.

 

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I still get the schadenfreude thinking about how that all worked out...

"But, but...we had an alliance!  AN ALLIANCE!!"

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Posted (edited)
  On 7/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

From what I've read here, the original plan was that the SEC and UT/OU were going to stay quiet until 2022 and then announce it, probably around the same time that USC/UCLA to the Big 10 dropped.

If we don't find out you're leaving in 2021, the status quo maintains with Bowlsby, and the Big 12 gets the rug pulled out at the same time as the Pac 12 with an incompetent old world leader manning the ship.

Because that bomb got dropped on us '21, it forced us to take action, add schools, and ushered Bowlsby to the finish line while we started finding a better replacement.  Meanwhile, the Pac sat around laughing, puffing their chest about the Alliance, and punting on an opportunity to add all those public schools with more passionate fanbases than what they had because of culture and politics.  When the Pac got their rug pulled out last year, we had closed in on Yormark, added 4 schools, and had a pretty damn good TV deal in place before they had even figured out what happened.

If UT and OU leave in '22 with Bowlsby still in charge, the Big 12's a hell of a lot bigger mess.  IMO.

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I would counter that if they could have waited and OU/UT and USC/UCLA announced around the same time, we could have raided the PAC instead of the AAC. For all the consternation about valuation, I think the bulk of what the Big XII got was due to the legacy programs, and maybe BYU, the rest were added for content and potential, not bad programs per se, but they'll need to prove themselves. If UO and UW leave too, the eight legacy Big XII plus the PAC 8 would have made for a nice 16 team conference west of the Mississippi (plus WVU), and would have received the same or possibly a little higher payout per school. I think Yormark would have gotten the job either way and would have found a way to leverage the west coast markets despite the general lower level of interest in CFB (at least those programs don't have much in-state college competition whereas Cincy is far far far behind OHST in that market, UH is far far behind UT and aggy in that market, and UCF is far far behind UF and FSU in that market).

The counter to that, obviously, is that the new contract payout might be a little higher than valuation in exchange for letting OU/UT leave early, but I think the stronger brands of the PAC 8 would counter the lower value of the AAC squads we had to take. I could be wrong on value, but I just don't see Cincy, UCF, and UH as all that valuable, we brought them on more for their markets and potential. 

Edited by 'stache
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 2:48 PM, 'stache said:

I would counter that if they could have waited and OU/UT and USC/UCLA announced around the same time, we could have raided the PAC instead of the AAC. For all the consternation about valuation, I think the bulk of what the Big XII got was due to the legacy programs, and maybe BYU, the rest were added for content and potential, not bad programs per se, but they'll need to prove themselves. If UO and UW leave too, the eight legacy Big XII plus the PAC 8 would have made for a nice 16 team conference west of the Mississippi (plus WVU), and would have received the same or possibly a little higher payout per school. I think Yormark would have gotten the job either way and would have found a way to leverage the west coast markets despite the general lower level of interest in CFB (at least those programs don't have much in-state college competition whereas Cincy is far far far behind OHST in that market, UH is far far behind UT and aggy in that market, and UCF is far far behind UF and FSU in that market).

The counter to that, obviously, is that the new contract payout might be a little higher than valuation in exchange for letting OU/UT leave early, but I think the stronger brands of the PAC 8 would counter the lower value of the AAC squads we had to take. I could be wrong on value, but I just don't see Cincy, UCF, and UH as all that valuable, we brought them on more for their markets and potential. 

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Maybe. Or, maybe, it would have worked the other way & the PAC could have raided the Big 12 & taken a few TX teams & maybe KU & the rest of y'all would be holding your dicks wondering if you had enough juice left to lure Cincy/UH/BYU/UCF & a few more to cobble together a new Big 12. If you can't lure AZ, ASU, or CU now with your new TV deal & stability, what makes you think you would be luring them without a TV deal while you're floating in the same rudderless boat that they are? 

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 2:48 PM, 'stache said:

I would counter that if they could have waited and OU/UT and USC/UCLA announced around the same time, we could have raided the PAC instead of the AAC. For all the consternation about valuation, I think the bulk of what the Big XII got was due to the legacy programs, and maybe BYU, the rest were added for content and potential, not bad programs per se, but they'll need to prove themselves. If UO and UW leave too, the eight legacy Big XII plus the PAC 8 would have made for a nice 16 team conference west of the Mississippi (plus WVU), and would have received the same or possibly a little higher payout per school. I think Yormark would have gotten the job either way and would have found a way to leverage the west coast markets despite the general lower level of interest in CFB (at least those programs don't have much in-state college competition whereas Cincy is far far far behind OHST in that market, UH is far far behind UT and aggy in that market, and UCF is far far behind UF and FSU in that market).

The counter to that, obviously, is that the new contract payout might be a little higher than valuation in exchange for letting OU/UT leave early, but I think the stronger brands of the PAC 8 would counter the lower value of the AAC squads we had to take. I could be wrong on value, but I just don't see Cincy, UCF, and UH as all that valuable, we brought them on more for their markets and potential. 

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I'm fine with this outcome, assuming Yormark is in the commissioner's chair when that shit drops.

I still think the timing of how this unfolded ended up benefitting the Big 12.  If you have two conferences in chaos at the same time, I do think there would have been a greater likelihood of large scale merger, which I still think makes sense, but having watched how the Pac 12 has handled the last year, I can see lot of reasons why I'm just fine with that not having happened.

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 3:03 PM, hook me said:

Maybe. Or, maybe, it would have worked the other way & the PAC could have raided the Big 12 & taken a few TX teams & maybe KU & the rest of y'all would be holding your dicks wondering if you had enough juice left to lure Cincy/UH/BYU/UCF & a few more to cobble together a new Big 12. If you can't lure AZ, ASU, or CU now with your new TV deal & stability, what makes you think you would be luring them without a TV deal while you're floating in the same rudderless boat that they are? 

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OKST would have been included if that were the case, but the eight legacy XII programs were still stronger than the PAC minus USC/UCLA and especially if UW and UO make the move too, and would have bee the raiders most likely. Also, who says we can't lure the four corners schools? The hold up is that none of them know yet what their new contract would look like and it would be a breach of fiduciary duty to make such a drastic move without knowing for sure what you're leaving behind. All indications are that the PAC media offer is going to be terrible, and when they reach the end of those negotiations, there is still a really good chance those schools join the XII. I think it's more likely that it'll be enough for them to stick together for a little while longer, but the PAC's breakup is inevitable it seems. 

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 3:07 PM, 'stache said:

OKST would have been included if that were the case, but the eight legacy XII programs were still stronger than the PAC minus USC/UCLA and especially if UW and UO make the move too, and would have bee the raiders most likely. Also, who says we can't lure the four corners schools? The hold up is that none of them know yet what their new contract would look like and it would be a breach of fiduciary duty to make such a drastic move without knowing for sure what you're leaving behind. All indications are that the PAC media offer is going to be terrible, and when they reach the end of those negotiations, there is still a really good chance those schools join the XII. I think it's more likely that it'll be enough for them to stick together for a little while longer, but the PAC's breakup is inevitable it seems. 

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I love the optimism that OKST would have definitely been included because.....? Why? The WC schools overwhelming desire to get the Stillwater market? The need for tips on how to grow an awesome mullet? I'm fairly certain OSU would have been left out of any Pac 12 raid unless another school passed or they hated the idea of religious schools so much that they passed over TCU/BU/BYU.  They would have taken just enough to get into the Texas market/central time zone & maybe BYU. OKST adds nothing to the Pac 12 that the Pac 12 actually cares about.

What tells me you wouldn't get the 4 corner schools is that you haven't gotten them despite almost a year of not-so-subtle courtship. They're going to successfully run the clock out (if they haven't already) & the Pac 12 will remain as it is (plus an addition or 2 if that works out but I'm thinking not). They obviously don't have the intestinal fortitude to make the change or they hate the idea of rubbing elbows with y'all so much that they're willing to forfeit millions of dollars a year to stay away. I'm not saying that's a good decision by them, but it's obviously their decision at the moment. The Big 12 only chance of getting them at this point is for Kliavkoff to literally not have a TV deal to present, or for AZ or CU to grow a pair of balls (& not care about being the nail in the coffin of the Pac 12 & the negative press that will come along with it) to jump ship. It's probably already too late for that to happen in time for next year, so you're looking at 2025 unless scenario #1 plays out & then all bets are off. In that case, it'd be much less "The Big 12 lured XYZ school away" & much more "the Pac 12 sunk & the Big 12 sent a life boat that only a few schools were allowed to jump in."

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Posted (edited)
  On 7/26/2023 at 4:02 PM, hook me said:

I love the optimism that OKST would have definitely been included because.....? Why? The WC schools overwhelming desire to get the Stillwater market? The need for tips on how to grow an awesome mullet? I'm fairly certain OSU would have been left out of any Pac 12 raid unless another school passed or they hated the idea of religious schools so much that they passed over TCU/BU/BYU.  They would have taken just enough to get into the Texas market/central time zone & maybe BYU. OKST adds nothing to the Pac 12 that the Pac 12 actually cares about.

What tells me you wouldn't get the 4 corner schools is that you haven't gotten them despite almost a year of not-so-subtle courtship. They're going to successfully run the clock out (if they haven't already) & the Pac 12 will remain as it is (plus an addition or 2 if that works out but I'm thinking not). They obviously don't have the intestinal fortitude to make the change or they hate the idea of rubbing elbows with y'all so much that they're willing to forfeit millions of dollars a year to stay away. I'm not saying that's a good decision by them, but it's obviously their decision at the moment. The Big 12 only chance of getting them at this point is for Kliavkoff to literally not have a TV deal to present, or for AZ or CU to grow a pair of balls (& not care about being the nail in the coffin of the Pac 12 & the negative press that will come along with it) to jump ship. It's probably already too late for that to happen in time for next year, so you're looking at 2025 unless scenario #1 plays out & then all bets are off. In that case, it'd be much less "The Big 12 lured XYZ school away" & much more "the Pac 12 sunk & the Big 12 sent a life boat that only a few schools were allowed to jump in."

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Because our on-field success and TV ratings (even excluding UT/OU games) are in the upper echelon of the post OU/UT Big XII? You also realize that the games are broadcast in more places than Stillwater, right? No movement has happened because the PAC programs don't know what they might make. You can't compare USC/UCLA moving to the BIG because it was known with absolute certainty that they'd make more money there than any PAC possibilities. The longer this drags out, it increases their frustration within the PAC 10 that they can't make any decisions until Klavikoff gets off his ass and actually produced a real offer. Until then, no decision maker in their right mind would make a move without complete information. I get it, "OKST and everyone else are worthless." The media companies disagree, but the faction of surly-ites who insist that nobody else matters are gonna surly, which is fine, it's your board, just a bizarre theme to get hung up on in an otherwise interesting conversation.

Edited by 'stache
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 4:10 PM, 'stache said:

Because our on-field success and TV ratings (even excluding UT/OU games) are in the upper echelon of the post OU/UT Big XII? You also realize that the games are broadcast in more places than Stillwater, right? No movement has happened because the PAC programs don't know what they might make. You can't compare USC/UCLA moving to the BIG because it was known with absolute certainty that they'd make more money there than any PAC possibilities. The longer this drags out, it increases their frustration within the PAC 10 that they can't make any decisions until Klavikoff gets off his ass and actually produced a real offer. Until then, no decision maker in their right mind would make a move without complete information. I get it, "OKST and everyone else are worthless." The media companies disagree, but the faction of surly-ites who insist that nobody else matters are gonna surly, which is fine, it's your board, just a bizarre theme to get hung up on in an otherwise interesting conversation.

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Yeah with everything that has been discussed and all of the data thrown into this thread over the past years I can't believe comments like this are still being made.

The data has conclusively shown that OSU has been consistently the #3 TV draw in the Big 12 after OU/Texas. It's not fucking complicated.  The idea that we wouldn't be included in any kind of PAC/legacy Big 12 merger is absurd.

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 4:10 PM, 'stache said:

Because our on-field success and TV ratings (even excluding UT/OU games) are in the upper echelon of the post OU/UT Big XII? You also realize that the games are broadcast in more places than Stillwater, right? No movement has happened because the PAC programs don't know what they might make. You can't compare USC/UCLA moving to the BIG because it was known with absolute certainty that they'd make more money there than any PAC possibilities. The longer this drags out, it increases their frustration within the PAC 10 that they can't make any decisions until Klavikoff gets off his ass and actually produced a real offer. Until then, no decision maker in their right mind would make a move without complete information. I get it, "OKST and everyone else are worthless." The media companies disagree, but the faction of surly-ites who insist that nobody else matters are gonna surly, which is fine, it's your board, just a bizarre theme to get hung up on in an otherwise interesting conversation.

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  On 7/26/2023 at 4:27 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah with everything that has been discussed and all of the data thrown into this thread over the past years I can't believe comments like this are still being made.

The data has conclusively shown that OSU has been consistently the #3 TV draw in the Big 12 after OU/Texas. It's not fucking complicated.  The idea that we wouldn't be included in any kind of PAC/legacy Big 12 merger is absurd.

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The phrase "OKST adds nothing to the Pac 12 that the Pac 12 actually cares about." is fairly essential to the statement. The Pac cares about academics, cultural fits, & city size in some order. OKST strikes out on all of those. Thanks for playing the game. Y'all would more likely be gobbled up by the ACC to form some sort of Central Time division along with some of the others if the ACC wanted to capitalize on that. Honestly, that would have been preferable to the Pac anyways.

  • Fuck You 2
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 4:27 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

 

The data has conclusively shown that OSU has been consistently the #3 TV draw in the Big 12 after OU/Texas. It's not fucking complicated.  The idea that we wouldn't be included in any kind of PAC/legacy Big 12 merger is absurd.

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CU was consistently the #3 TV draw in the old Big 8. Mizzou was consistently the #4 TV draw in the old Big 8. Do the PAC and SEC have warm feelings when they tuck in at night, secure that they nabbed the Buffs and Tigers? I don’t know that being the #3 in the B12 is such a big deal, with TAMU, NU, CU and Mizzou gone  

 

 
 

Posted

Perspective- Here is what I’m hearing on this thread:

”We’re going to take the weakest six programs from the 1991 SWC, and drop Rice and SMU. We’ll add the four weakest programs from the Big 8. Then, we’ll add WVU from the Big East, Cincy, UCF and BYU from wherever they’re from and we’ll mix it all together and be the third best conference, baby!”

Does that make sense to anyone? (I’ll concede that OSU was screwed out of the BCS CG in 2010, fwiw). 

  • Haha 2
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

From what I've read here, the original plan was that the SEC and UT/OU were going to stay quiet until 2022 and then announce it, probably around the same time that USC/UCLA to the Big 10 dropped.

If we don't find out you're leaving in 2021, the status quo maintains with Bowlsby, and the Big 12 gets the rug pulled out at the same time as the Pac 12 with an incompetent old world leader manning the ship.

Because that bomb got dropped on us '21, it forced us to take action, add schools, and ushered Bowlsby to the finish line while we started finding a better replacement.  Meanwhile, the Pac sat around laughing, puffing their chest about the Alliance, and punting on an opportunity to add all those public schools with more passionate fanbases than what they had because of culture and politics.  When the Pac got their rug pulled out last year, we had closed in on Yormark, added 4 schools, and had a pretty damn good TV deal in place before they had even figured out what happened.

If UT and OU leave in '22 with Bowlsby still in charge, the Big 12's a hell of a lot bigger mess.  IMO.

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so what you're saying here is, it took 33 years, but in the end, the big8/swc orphans all get a forever-home, thanks to aggy

okay then

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 5:59 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

so what you're saying here is, it took 33 years, but in the end, the big8/swc orphans all get a forever-home, thanks to aggy

okay then

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I don't want to give them credit, but I think it's pretty clear that things worked out better for us with the UT/OU announcement happening in '21 rather than '22.  Someone tell me that it was always going to be announced in '21 and Aggy had nothing to do with it.

  On 7/26/2023 at 5:58 PM, statsman said:

Perspective- Here is what I’m hearing on this thread:

”We’re going to take the weakest six programs from the 1991 SWC, and drop Rice and SMU. We’ll add the four weakest programs from the Big 8. Then, we’ll add WVU from the Big East, Cincy, UCF and BYU from wherever they’re from and we’ll mix it all together and be the third best conference, baby!”

Does that make sense to anyone? (I’ll concede that OSU was screwed out of the BCS CG in 2010, fwiw). 

Expand  

You can call it nonsense, but that's kind of exactly what's happening as the result of brand consolidation.

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 5:58 PM, statsman said:

Perspective- Here is what I’m hearing on this thread:

”We’re going to take the weakest six programs from the 1991 SWC, and drop Rice and SMU. We’ll add the four weakest programs from the Big 8. Then, we’ll add WVU from the Big East, Cincy, UCF and BYU from wherever they’re from and we’ll mix it all together and be the third best conference, baby!”

Does that make sense to anyone? (I’ll concede that OSU was screwed out of the BCS CG in 2010, fwiw). 

Expand  

Do you work for ESPN or Fox? Because their opinion is all that matters and they’re paying a healthy sum to this group of former “cast offs” and “left behinds.”

  • Hook 'Em 6
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 5:58 PM, statsman said:

Perspective- Here is what I’m hearing on this thread:

”We’re going to take the weakest six programs from the 1991 SWC, and drop Rice and SMU. We’ll add the four weakest programs from the Big 8. Then, we’ll add WVU from the Big East, Cincy, UCF and BYU from wherever they’re from and we’ll mix it all together and be the third best conference, baby!”

Does that make sense to anyone? (I’ll concede that OSU was screwed out of the BCS CG in 2010, fwiw). 

Expand  

It's almost like some things might have changed over the past 32 years. Makes no sense.

  • Haha 2
Posted

Out of curiosity- I get that Fox and ESPN are together paying the Big 12 $2.2 B through 2031. I see breakdowns of what each is getting in terms of games. My question is- What is Fox paying, and what were they paying?

Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 6:13 PM, 'stache said:

Do you work for ESPN or Fox? Because their opinion is all that matters and they’re paying a healthy sum to this group of former “cast offs” and “left behinds.”

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It’s like all of them got a lot better since the Clinton Administration 

Posted (edited)
  On 7/26/2023 at 7:09 PM, statsman said:

Out of curiosity- I get that Fox and ESPN are together paying the Big 12 $2.2 B through 2031. I see breakdowns of what each is getting in terms of games. My question is- What is Fox paying, and what were they paying?

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I don't see where it says how much each is paying of the overall price, but it shows that ESPN gets the "A" package and first choice for the most attractive football matchups, so I assume ESPN is paying way more than Fox. 

 

For the “A” package, ESPN gets the top four football picks each season, six of the top eight picks, eight of the top 12 picks and 12 of the top 20 picks. As part of the deal, ESPN also gets the rights to the Big 12 football championship game and the basketball tournament championship game. The Big 12’s parity helped convince Fox, whose package includes 26 football games per season that will run on Fox broadcast network and FS1, to do the deal.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by 'stache
Posted (edited)
  On 7/26/2023 at 7:11 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

It’s like all of them got a lot better since the Clinton Administration 

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I mean, this is what our stadium looked like at the end of the Big 8 and for a few more years into the Big 12. We had piss troughs that were spray painted before each season to cover up the stains. Pat Jones has said that on campus visits included the entire campus, except the stadium. 

Lewis Field | Baseball stadium, Football stadiums, Go pokes

Edited by 'stache
Posted

I’m asking because it has been proposed that ESPN/ABC is overpaying the B12 thru 2031 to facilitate Texas and OU leaving to the SEC. Evidence to support that would be if Fox were not paying more than before. I can’t understand why every report of the B12 contract states the combined amount the two different companies pay, when obviously they are two separate contracts. 

  • Haha 1
  • Fuck You 1
Posted (edited)
  On 7/26/2023 at 7:18 PM, 'stache said:

I mean, this is what our stadium looked like at the end of the Big 8 and for a few more years into the Big 12. We had piss troughs that were spray painted before each season to cover up the stains. Pat Jones has said that on campus visits included the entire campus, except the stadium. 

Lewis Field | Baseball stadium, Football stadiums, Go pokes

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And now, your stadium is the worst in the B12, with dangerously small sidelines, endangering players on and off the field. 
 
I don’t intend to be insulting, but just stating a fact. 

Edited by statsman
  • Haha 2
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 7:31 PM, statsman said:

And now, your stadium is the worst in the B12, with dangerously small sidelines, endangering players on and off the field. 
 
I don’t intend to be insulting, but just stating a fact. 

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I’ll be insulting. You’re stadium fucking sucks, your fans suck, your school sucks, your orange is a disgrace to oranges colors everywhere, your mascot is a piece of shit copy cat, and you smell. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted
  On 7/26/2023 at 5:58 PM, statsman said:

Perspective- Here is what I’m hearing on this thread:

”We’re going to take the weakest six programs from the 1991 SWC, and drop Rice and SMU. We’ll add the four weakest programs from the Big 8. Then, we’ll add WVU from the Big East, Cincy, UCF and BYU from wherever they’re from and we’ll mix it all together and be the third best conference, baby!”

Does that make sense to anyone? (I’ll concede that OSU was screwed out of the BCS CG in 2010, fwiw). 

Expand  

It definitely doesn't make sense if your perspective on those programs is stuck in 1996.

Thankfully the people who make the decisions about where to invest their media money don't have a perspective stuck in 1996 and it makes sense to them so that's all that really matters.

 

  • Hook 'Em 6

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