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Realignment talk not going away

The Tower

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Posted by Sandbagging Steve,

How many teams will be left when the dust settles in a few years? I think there's a way for all the teams to still have some involvement. I will explain that at the end of this list. Here's my list of the top 32 programs and a list if it goes to 48. There's some debate if it goes to 48, but not much debate if it stops at 32. I guess one could debate Arizona State, but that's about it. The top 32 at least come close to carrying their own weight. Everyone below that line is losing money for t

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Aggy should abstain so the vote is 13-0 and then we can then brand it on their dog.

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notre dame joe

notre dame joe 188

Posted
Posted
On 9/8/2023 at 2:21 PM, Jabberwocky said:

Not quite sure where to put this, but seems kind of relevant... NIL a better thread for it?

 

This could be a problem.  As I understand it if you are injured on the job then your employer/insurance foots the long term care bill for the rest of your life. 

IS that true in professional sports?

 

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https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/future-of-pac-12-network-a-sticking-point-as-oregon-state-washington-state-seek-to-salvage-conference/

For those Beaver & new Window Cougar fans and MWC fans who think somehow a new conference with the same name will somehow take the Pac 12's place because of NCAA grace period rules, Sankey has spoken:

"...Even if they do retain the conference name, such a shift in program prominence will most likely lead to a reduction in the number of autonomy conference and automatic qualifiers (six) into the expanded 12-team bracket.

"It hasn't dissolved yet; we have to see what happens. … Respectfully, the Pac-12 still exists. There has to be clarity," SEC commissioner Greg Sankey said Saturday.

 

NCAA bylaws state a conference must be composed of at least eight teams. However, there is a two-year grace period for a league to maintain that number. On paper, are the Cougars and Beavers a viable two-team conference?

"The CFP is not the NCAA," Sankey said. "I think we all understand that.""

 

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4992

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bullet said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/future-of-pac-12-network-a-sticking-point-as-oregon-state-washington-state-seek-to-salvage-conference/

For those Beaver & new Window Cougar fans and MWC fans who think somehow a new conference with the same name will somehow take the Pac 12's place because of NCAA grace period rules, Sankey has spoken:

"...Even if they do retain the conference name, such a shift in program prominence will most likely lead to a reduction in the number of autonomy conference and automatic qualifiers (six) into the expanded 12-team bracket.

"It hasn't dissolved yet; we have to see what happens. … Respectfully, the Pac-12 still exists. There has to be clarity," SEC commissioner Greg Sankey said Saturday.

 

NCAA bylaws state a conference must be composed of at least eight teams. However, there is a two-year grace period for a league to maintain that number. On paper, are the Cougars and Beavers a viable two-team conference?

"The CFP is not the NCAA," Sankey said. "I think we all understand that.""

 

AQs for the CFP, well they never had an AQ, it goes to the top 6 conference champs, reducing it by 1 now in order to maintain 5 going into the next new contract would be a smart move for the PAC2/MWC and AAC with the power consolidation.

As far as the autonomous conference status, the PAC still technically has that unless voted on by the majority of NCAA members/conferences (not sure which), IF it can retain its status as a conference (8 members playing together for 6 years of something like that). Unless they get an exception, which I wouldn’t count on, they would need to add 8 members in the next 2 years that have been playing together for 6 years to keep that status, which leaves only the MWC, SunBelt, or the MAC.

If they take the 8 best realignment candidates from the MWC that would leave Wyoming, New Mexico, Nevada, and Hawaii on the outside looking in, but to get the MWC to dissolve peacefully without exit fees the full reverse merger makes the most sense plus it eliminates a postseason tournament AQ spot in non fb sports as well.

I still think there is a 50/50 shot the PAC2/MWC can keep their autonomous status. Having representation from a Western based conference that can help represent the general interest of similar conferences (Big Sky, WCC, Big West) is not a bad olive branch to leave in tact plus it also gives a G5(now 6) insight and a voice in decisions with the Power2/Next 2 and allows for a tiebreaker. Still not sure the P2 want to be able to be outvoted by the N2/G6, so that will be an interesting story to follow. Not predicting they’ll lose or keep it either way just saying that both options are realistic.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4992

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

 

The same WY that smoked Baylor?

 

 

The same Wyoming that ranks 52 out of 56 US States/DC/territories in population only beating out Guam, US Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands. Also the smallest enrollment in the MWC outside of Air Force, they are smaller than every P5 school except Wake Forest.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32996

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On 9/9/2023 at 9:49 AM, USC_TMB said:

I could see where OSU &Wazzu would want to go all crazy ex-girlfriend on the ex PAC members at first, but that would be suicide for their athletic departments. They are forgetting they are OSU & Wazzu… not the big dogs like USC & UCLA. If they pulled some rubbish like voting themselves PAC champions (with a .500 record, and getting an automatic playoff bid over (for argument’s sake) an undefeated USC, the blowback would be epic. They might as well embrace playing Directional Montana State Teachers College with no TV forever.

I would doubt the bylaws would give them the option of doing something so stupid, but as big of a cluster-fuck the PAC has been, it wouldn’t surprise me.

lulz

"You can't do that or else we'll really hurt you!" right after you already just took away any chance for program relevance. I get why USC and UCLA (and then the others) did what they did. That's fine. Business decision purely in self-interest. You don't get to now be babies when those left behind exercise the same right.

I don't think they will, but they absolutely should.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4992

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

No SEC. Curious. 

I think this is a good test case. If these conferences can make more money with only the teams from the P5+Big East that Miss the NCAA tournament, than they currently make from the NIT then that speaks volumes about how the next huge realignment saga may unfold (NCAA tournament better look out).

ESPN has NIT rights so they and ACC wouldn’t likely participate unless this gets popular/profitable.

I think this may be testing the market. Could totally see FOX/ESPN teaming up on a top 64 FBS+Big East Conference basketball invitational. It would make more sense to have first week tournament games on FOX/ABC/ESPN/FS1/ESPN2/FS2/ESPNU…than CBS/TNT/TBS/Tru

1 minute ago, Kwix said:

Honestly, give me that over a bunch of trash bowl games

Basketball not football.

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Kwix

Kwix 2190

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Posted
17 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

I think this is a good test case. If these conferences can make more money with only the teams from the P5+Big East that Miss the NCAA tournament, than they currently make from the NIT then that speaks volumes about how the next huge realignment saga may unfold (NCAA tournament better look out).

ESPN has NIT rights so they and ACC wouldn’t likely participate unless this gets popular/profitable.

I think this may be testing the market. Could totally see FOX/ESPN teaming up on a top 64 FBS+Big East Conference basketball invitational. It would make more sense to have first week tournament games on FOX/ABC/ESPN/FS1/ESPN2/FS2/ESPNU…than CBS/TNT/TBS/Tru

Basketball not football.

Season 7 Oops GIF by Workaholics

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1651

Posted
Posted

The OSU/WSU request for temporary restraining order is set for a hearing today.

https://wpcdn.web.wsu.edu/news/uploads/sites/2797/Complaint1.pdf

To my non-lawyer eyes, that seems pretty cut and dry, and seems like  OSU/WSU should get the restraining order.

But of course law is messy.   Any thoughts from folks who know what they're talking about?

 

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USC_TMB

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Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

lulz

"You can't do that or else we'll really hurt you!" right after you already just took away any chance for program relevance. I get why USC and UCLA (and then the others) did what they did. That's fine. Business decision purely in self-interest. You don't get to now be babies when those left behind exercise the same right.

I don't think they will, but they absolutely should.

As has been posted above, the PAC bylaws are indeed a cluster fuck. My previous post had nothing to do with “being a baby”, it was working on the premise that voting on any matters would only affect 2024 and beyond. Now that it has come out that Board representation ceased immediately, all bets are off.  I agree that it’s doubtful they go nuclear, but if it happens it’s not going to be pretty if lawyers & potentially ambitious politicians get involved.

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USC_TMB

USC_TMB 405

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hornbri said:

Why are the PAC lawyers arguing AGAINST the WSU/OSU request? I would have thought they agreed with it. 

From a quick glance through the filing (don’t really care enough and am not a lawyer), it seems pretty cut-and-dried… bounce from the conference and you are off the Board. The filing makes it sound like Klownikoff tried some back door crap.  Of course, a lawsuit can claim anything, so we’ll see when facts come out. 

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1651

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I sympathize with Oregon State and Washington State, but they’re not keeping all that money. I’d imagine the two will get half and the departing 10 will get the other half. It sucks, it’s not fair, but it’s the way it is. 

Not sure what makes you think that, because things are trending toward OSU/WSU being in charge of everything.

Unless the Pac-12 lawyers pull some overlooked by-law or legal rabbit out of their hat, the arguments used to get the temporary restraining order are probably going to win the day.   

The by-laws are short and clear, and the Pac-12 just followed those by-laws and kicked CU off the board a month ago.  

At this point, with what we know, I'd expect OSU and WSU to be ruled to be the only valid members of the board.  If/when that happens, they get to make the rules and they get to decide what happens to all the Pac-12 assets.   

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Not sure what makes you think that, because things are trending toward OSU/WSU being in charge of everything.

Unless the Pac-12 lawyers pull some overlooked by-law or legal rabbit out of their hat, the arguments used to get the temporary restraining order are probably going to win the day.   

The by-laws are short and clear, and the Pac-12 just followed those by-laws and kicked CU off the board a month ago.  

At this point, with what we know, I'd expect OSU and WSU to be ruled to be the only valid members of the board.  If/when that happens, they get to make the rules and they get to decide what happens to all the Pac-12 assets.   

 

 

 

The By-laws are not clear at all.  They are very vague and poorly written.  Its pretty clear that one section confuses actually leaving with giving notice of leaving.

Its not clear at all who does and doesn't have voting rights now.  I sure wouldn't put money on any possible outcome if it went to court.

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Hurtlocker

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7 minutes ago, bullet said:

The By-laws are not clear at all.  They are very vague and poorly written.  Its pretty clear that one section confuses actually leaving with giving notice of leaving.

Its not clear at all who does and doesn't have voting rights now.  I sure wouldn't put money on any possible outcome if it went to court.

I was shocked when I read them, it was like "Hold up, these are bylaws, what circus clown wrote this?"

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USC_TMB

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Posted
1 hour ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Not sure what makes you think that, because things are trending toward OSU/WSU being in charge of everything.

Unless the Pac-12 lawyers pull some overlooked by-law or legal rabbit out of their hat, the arguments used to get the temporary restraining order are probably going to win the day.   

The by-laws are short and clear, and the Pac-12 just followed those by-laws and kicked CU off the board a month ago.  

At this point, with what we know, I'd expect OSU and WSU to be ruled to be the only valid members of the board.  If/when that happens, they get to make the rules and they get to decide what happens to all the Pac-12 assets.   

 

 

 

Just put it curiosity, do you think they (OSU & Wazzu) would be solely on the hook for the Comcast payoff? 

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USC_TMB

USC_TMB 405

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11 minutes ago, bullet said:

The By-laws are not clear at all.  They are very vague and poorly written.  Its pretty clear that one section confuses actually leaving with giving notice of leaving.

Its not clear at all who does and doesn't have voting rights now.  I sure wouldn't put money on any possible outcome if it went to court.

And that is the problem if it gets to that point.  This could drag out for years and the lawyers wind up with the assets. 

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Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

One of the Pac-12 agenda items for this Wednesday:  a proposal to pay the departing schools "transition fees" to help them move to their new conferences:

 

 

 

 

 

All of you remember who Canzano the clown's sources were?  Washington St. and Oregon St.  So take anything that comes out of there with a grain of salt.

Besides, lawyers are paid to lie.  So you have professional liars representing proven liars/delusional idiots.

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 7866

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Oh bullshit. They should have gone into a meeting where they'd be outvoted 10-2 on everything by 10 people who don't even have the right to vote? GTFO with that BS.

 

Exactly. The comcast over payment is settled, has been. By their own rules, which they have shown to follow previously, there are currently only two members with voting rights. It's not like those two could vote to change any competition related things this season, nor could they vote to change the payout distribution for this season. Maybe I should rephrase that to, "they could, but even an idiot could see that would land them in court for who knows how long."

Now they very well could take the network and assets for themselves, which being the only two remaining voting members would be their right. The teams leaving forfeited their stake in that beyond this academic year, not much they can do about it.

Really no winners here. Keeping the conference "intact" for the benefit of the tournament or CFP won't last long. NCAA may not be as harsh of a reality, but the CFP benefit (autobid champ slot) will cease to exist as quickly as they can make it happen.

Sometimes you just gotta cut your losses and move on without all the woulda, coulda, shoulda shit.

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Posted
On 9/11/2023 at 9:00 PM, Huckleberry said:

Oh bullshit. They should have gone into a meeting where they'd be outvoted 10-2 on everything by 10 people who don't even have the right to vote? GTFO with that BS.

And then you sue on any particular thing you don't like while attending the meeting under the understanding that you don't think its an official meeting.

Getting the lawyers involved STOPS negotiations.

But then WSU/OSU have not shown themselves to be smart.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 39934

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Just now, thunderlounge said:

Stops negotiations for what?

There is nothing to negotiate, unless it’s between WSU/OSU. The others have forfeited their positions, which is clearly stated in their bylaws, and has been enforced as recently as Colorado announcement.

 

That notice sent to Colorado by PAC 12 is going to haunt all the other teams that aren't OSU/WSU.

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'stache

'stache 21819

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14 hours ago, bullet said:

And then you sue on any particular thing you don't like while attending the meeting under the understanding that you don't think its an official meeting.

Getting the lawyers involved STOPS negotiations.

But then WSU/OSU have not shown themselves to be smart.

Suing for an injunction to stop the vote is way way way cheaper than an after the fact lawsuit to sort out the results of dissolving the conference. It’s pretty smart and probably necessary.it’s the Pacs own fault for being a disorganized mess with shitty vague by-laws.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32996

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, bullet said:

And then you sue on any particular thing you don't like while attending the meeting under the understanding that you don't think its an official meeting.

Getting the lawyers involved STOPS negotiations.

But then WSU/OSU have not shown themselves to be smart.

Uh, holy shit.

By virtue of attending and voting in the meeting OSU and WSU would be in danger of courts finding that they believed at the time that the meeting was valid. You can't say "oh hey this isn't an official meeting" when your official representatives attend, minutes are taken, and you participate in votes during the meeting.

You probably need to reconsider who isn't showing themselves to be smart.

8 hours ago, 'stache said:

Suing for an injunction to stop the vote is way way way cheaper than an after the fact lawsuit to sort out the results of dissolving the conference. It’s pretty smart and probably necessary.it’s the Pacs own fault for being a disorganized mess with shitty vague by-laws.

Yeah, what this guy said.

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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Uh, holy shit.

By virtue of attending and voting in the meeting OSU and WSU would be in danger of courts finding that they believed at the time that the meeting was valid. You can't say "oh hey this isn't an official meeting" when your official representatives attend, minutes are taken, and you participate in votes during the meeting.

You probably need to reconsider who isn't showing themselves to be smart.

Yeah, what this guy said.

You specifically say what the meeting is before attending.  A meeting to sort things out and negotiate.

You must be a lawyer.  Lawyers just make things complicated and expensive.

Suing before talking is just giving a big middle finger to everyone.

And how smart is it that everything is frozen now?  They can't get anything done on their home for next year.  Nobody is going to cooperate.  Many recruits in all their sports are going to go somewhere else.  Its just more bad decisions as Sgt. Schultz has been making all along.

Now its possible there were efforts to try to resolve things, but the fact that the conference was trying to get the meeting to figure out what they could do to keep all their staff from quitting indicates that none of the Pac 12 presidents are talking.  They are as dysfunctional as ever in their dying days.

It will be interesting to see if the 10 get involved in this at all or if they do their own lawsuits once this trial starts.  If they do nothing, then it indicates WSU/OSU delayed everything for no reason.

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4992

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, bullet said:
Pete Thamel tweet:
 
There’s optimism on both sides as they dive further into the details to figure out a potential arrangement. The Army-Navy game would be a non-conference game if Army joins the AAC and still be played after the season.
 
 
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21.9K
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Makes too much sense not to happen, wonder if they’ll stand pat at 13 in basketball or if they’ll add another non fb team (VCU?) or kick Wichita St to the curb.

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Texas Wahoo

Texas Wahoo 3397

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Posted
1 hour ago, bullet said:

You specifically say what the meeting is before attending.  A meeting to sort things out and negotiate.

You must be a lawyer.  Lawyers just make things complicated and expensive.

Suing before talking is just giving a big middle finger to everyone.

And how smart is it that everything is frozen now?  They can't get anything done on their home for next year.  Nobody is going to cooperate.  Many recruits in all their sports are going to go somewhere else.  Its just more bad decisions as Sgt. Schultz has been making all along.

Now its possible there were efforts to try to resolve things, but the fact that the conference was trying to get the meeting to figure out what they could do to keep all their staff from quitting indicates that none of the Pac 12 presidents are talking.  They are as dysfunctional as ever in their dying days.

It will be interesting to see if the 10 get involved in this at all or if they do their own lawsuits once this trial starts.  If they do nothing, then it indicates WSU/OSU delayed everything for no reason.

The whole point is that the Pac 12 (and the 10 leaving schools) are/were saying they were still acting directors and were likely to vote to dissolve the conference after this season.  WSU and OSU cannot risk that happening, so they had to get an injunction to prevent it - which they successfully obtained.  Just letting the meeting go forward would be the equivalent of when the Pac 12 decided they did not need to get anything in the Alliance in writing.

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