Realignment talk not going away

[bullet 1,596]

3 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

This is the correct answer. Houston kinda gets screwed, but they're lucky to have a seat to begin with. Plus, they only joined the SWC in the '70s.

Don't make it quite so structured.

BYU, AZ, ASU, UU, CU-play 3 games against each other (except BYU-2), skip CU-BYU, UU-AZ, BYU-ASU

KSU, KU, ISU play each other and one of the 3 east schools (say KSU-WVU, ISU-UC, KU-UCF)

UCF-WVU-UC play each other and one of the Big 12 N schools

OSU, TT, TCU, BU, UH-play 3 games against each other (except UH-2 who plays BYU), skip TT-TCU, UH-OSU, UH-BU

Besides the 3 fixed, you get everyone else every other year.

[Jabberwocky 1,666]

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

I now hate the Big 12 as much as the rest of you

[mdmost 43,001]

The only Big 12 rivalries played every year will be Arizona/ASU, BYU/Utah, Baylor/TCU, KU/KSU. So Iowa State/KSU, Tech/Baylor aren't played every year and oSu has no rivals now?

Edited November 1, 2023 by mdmost

[Laxtonto 12,080]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I now hate the Big 12 as much as the rest of you

You guys got jobbed...

Farmagetten is no more I guess

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

You guys got jobbed...
Farmagetten is no more I guess

Our ADs have to find a way to play it non-con.

ISU and KSU Twitters are losing their shit

[mdmost 43,001]

Don't worry, I'm sure the SEC is about to one up you guys for the dumbest scheduling matrix going when they do 1-8/1-7 instead of 3-6-6. 

['stache 21,802]

Of course they went stupid. KSU-ISU should be annual instead of KU-KSU. OSU-Tech should be annual too. We're not huge rivals, but a lot of similarities. But overall I don't have too much complaint, it is what it is, and rotations are tight enough that everyone sees everyone within a 4 year cycle.

[gatormarc 911]

10 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Don't worry, I'm sure the SEC is about to one up you guys for the dumbest scheduling matrix going when they do 1-8/1-7 instead of 3-6-6. 

1-6 and everyone is assigned a local FCS OOC rival.

[LonghornBreeder 550]

19 hours ago, Big Frog II said:

Before 60,000 empty seats.

Beat me to it. Have some +

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

Outside of the unforgivable sin, I like that they keep everyone playing regularly. None of that Aggy/UGA shit.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

I don't know what ya'll are complaining about. We still get to lose to TCU every year.

[Frank Drebin 5,663]

13 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Outside of the unforgivable sin, I like that they keep everyone playing regularly. None of that Aggy/UGA shit.

Yep.  At least it feels like an actual conference and not the AFC/NFC.  Players who stay 4 years will get every opponent at least twice, home and away.

[Huckleberry 32,851]

12 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Outside of the unforgivable sin, I like that they keep everyone playing regularly. None of that Aggy/UGA shit.

Yeah but as you imply, it's an "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln" situation. Rivalries are what make college sports great. The saving grace to me of Texas going to the SEC was adding back two historic rivalries. The Big 12 had a chance to elevate some historic rivalries and instead eliminated them. Yeesh.

[redswingline 1,057]

I assume the dumb ass 9 conference game slate will continue.

They should drop down to 8 and play an FCS team in November.

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah but as you imply, it's an "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln" situation. Rivalries are what make college sports great. The saving grace to me of Texas going to the SEC was adding back two historic rivalries. The Big 12 had a chance to elevate some historic rivalries and instead eliminated them. Yeesh.

We get at least 2 (and some years 4) Big 8 games every year, but still.

I would honestly just as soon play it as a non con in ‘27.  Extra P4 game be damned.

[Jabberwocky 1,666]

A whole lot of twitter crying going on for nothing. It is not reasonable to expect a completely regional schedule with a 16-team national conference.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,275]

 

Should be swapping out the TCU-Baylol "rivalry" to save Farmageddon, really don't think anyone gives two shits about Holy War - Texas edition... Bunch of regards in the Big 12 front office throwing away Farmageddon 

 

['stache 21,802]

I never thought KU-KSU meant much (in football at least), should have been KSU-ISU.

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

I never thought KU-KSU meant much (in football at least), should have been KSU-ISU.

I just listened to an ISU pod that made a good point:

They only protected in-state games and gave no one 2 protected rivalries.

Farmageddon tends to be a bigger game, but they’re clearly trying to be more equitable in how they operate, and that’s probably a good strategic decision.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

45 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

 

 

 

Yes very much so even if TCU does win it 9 times out of 10. KillerFrog's Baylor thread is at over 1900 pages now.

https://forum.killerfrogs.com/index.php?threads/baylortears.186817/

[Jabberwocky 1,666]

Farmaggedon usually attracts something in the neighborhood of 300k viewers. I think that is a big part of the reason why it is not protected.

['stache 21,802]

I think they should have at least tried to pair teams off for one permanent game, and I think it's okay to recognize a rivalry across state lines.

AU-ASU (Territorial Cup)

BYU-Utah (Holy War)

Baylor-TCU (Rivavalry/Holy War Lite)

ISU-KSU (Farmageddon (top tier rivalry name))

KU-CU (Flatland Fight? (old Big 8))

OSU-Tech (Finger Gun Fracas)

UH-UCF (Movin on Up Melee)

Cincy-WVU (Why Not Western Wing Wrangle)

[NCMountaineer 100]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I now hate the Big 12 as much as the rest of you

the loss of Farmageddon as an annual showdown sucks, though at least we get the Riot Bowl 3 of 4. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,275]

Just now, 'stache said:

OSU-Tech (Finger Gun Fracas)

I loled

Cant find sad OKST Pistols Firing but did find sad paddle people

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

the loss of Farmageddon as an annual showdown sucks, though at least we get the Riot Bowl 3 of 4. 

I’m glad to see a healthy dose of WVU

[LonghornBreeder 550]

49 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

Farmaggedon usually attracts something in the neighborhood of 300k viewers. I think that is a big part of the reason why it is not protected.

Well yeah, but how many viewers is K-State versus Arizona or Iowa state versus Cincinnati going to pull?

They should keep the game and turn it into a spectacle. Start playing the game in the middle of a cleared corn field and make the gold post look like pitchforks or something. That might pull 400k viewers. 

Texas and OU are leaving the big 12. They've got some holes to fill.

[bolverk 29,660]

Here's what they've got for Tech. Bolded are the teams they'll play three times during those four years (red = home, black = away). I see what they're trying to do with regionality, except for West Virginia (would've rather seen Colorado three times than them).

But, of course, playing teams three times over the span of the next four years may not mean doing the same over the course of the ensuing years. Glad to see the pairing up with ASU as a "rival" instead; that's a natural fit for Tech.

As others said, I'm disappointed that there aren't more permanent rivalries established, Okie Lite among them.

Edited November 1, 2023 by bolverk

[Deej 76,759]

"Today's Baylor/BYU match-up brought to you by O'Doul's."

 

[Big Frog II 511]

Why can't they schedule KSU-ISU and TCU-Baylor every year?

[Grande Mart 511]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Here's what they've got for Tech. Bolded are the teams they'll play three times during those four years (red = home, black = away). I see what they're trying to do with regionality, except for West Virginia (would've rather seen Colorado three times than them).

But, of course, playing teams three times over the span of the next four years may not mean doing the same over the course of the ensuing years. Glad to see the pairing up with ASU as a "rival" instead; that's a natural fit for Tech.

As others said, I'm disappointed that there aren't more permanent rivalries established, Okie Lite among them.

Tech vs ASU - the STD shootout!

[TxEx84 398]

33 minutes ago, Big Frog II said:

Why can't they schedule KSU-ISU and TCU-Baylor every year?

TCU - Baylor is every year.  They paired up KSU with KU instead of ISU.  Sounds like how the Big12 screwed up the Neb-ou game.

[bolverk 29,660]

15 minutes ago, Grande Mart said:

Tech vs ASU - the STD shootout!

That's always good for a chuckle, given both schools' reputations. But, thinking longer on it, Arizona would make more sense from a "historical" standpoint. Tech and Arizona were both in the old Border Conference together and first played back in 1932, meeting 33 times over the years. So, there's some history there. Tech and ASU have only met 4 times.

When they cobbled this conference together, you'd think they would've at least had one or two protected rivalries for each school to add some "gravitas" to the league. I'm more of a UT fan, having grown up a fan, earning my master's there, and living in Austin for almost 30 years. But I do still also follow Tech, where I got my undergrad (was also a West Texas kid).

I just want them to have good match-ups with meaning in a fun league so as to not fall further. 

[Richard Kimball 1,494]

1 hour ago, TxEx84 said:

TCU - Baylor is every year.  They paired up KSU with KU instead of ISU.  Sounds like how the Big12 screwed up the Neb-ou game.

Going off memory, but I think Oklahoma was the driving force behind killing OU-NU. At the time, everyone figured the big three were going to be Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas. Oklahoma wanted the Texas game for recruiting, and they didn't want to have to play them both in conference. 

[LTbear 4,168]

2 hours ago, Big Frog II said:

Why can't they schedule KSU-ISU and TCU-Baylor every year?

TCU/ Baylor is scheduled every year...

[bullet 1,596]

7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I now hate the Big 12 as much as the rest of you

How do they give up Farmageddon???

[bullet 1,596]

7 hours ago, mdmost said:

The only Big 12 rivalries played every year will be Arizona/ASU, BYU/Utah, Baylor/TCU, KU/KSU. So Iowa State/KSU, Tech/Baylor aren't played every year and oSu has no rivals now?

What makes the SEC and Big 10 special and more valuable are the rivalries.  The SEC often went years without seeing other teams.  But the key teams they saw every year.

I think it is a huge mistake to not give every team at least two every year rivals.  It just loses the spice.

In addition to the 4 above, add Utah/CU, BYU/ASU, CU/AU in the west.  UC/UCF/WVU all play each other in the east.  Add Farmageddon and ISU/KU.  Then add TT/OSU, TT/UH, UH/TCU and BU/OSU.

You can also do 2 others 3 out of 4 and the other 11 still see 2 out of 4.

 

 

[bullet 1,596]

7 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah but as you imply, it's an "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln" situation. Rivalries are what make college sports great. The saving grace to me of Texas going to the SEC was adding back two historic rivalries. The Big 12 had a chance to elevate some historic rivalries and instead eliminated them. Yeesh.

We had 4 big rivalries when I was in school, Land thieves, pigs, 7-11 thieves and aggy.  The last few years we only had one.  In the SEC we get pigs and aggy back.

I think most agree that ending OU-NU was one of the Big 12's biggest mistakes.  The Big 12 has nothing of that caliber, but you don't want 15 rotating games without any special intensity.

[TKthunder2 4,988]

5 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think they should have at least tried to pair teams off for one permanent game, and I think it's okay to recognize a rivalry across state lines.

AU-ASU (Territorial Cup)

BYU-Utah (Holy War)

Baylor-TCU (Rivavalry/Holy War Lite)

ISU-KSU (Farmageddon (top tier rivalry name))

KU-CU (Flatland Fight? (old Big 8))

OSU-Tech (Finger Gun Fracas)

UH-UCF (Movin on Up Melee)

Cincy-WVU (Why Not Western Wing Wrangle)

It seems real dumb to not just establish a 1-8-8 model. It would be easy to schedule and for fans to keep track of.

The only reason not to do that is pairing today’s Colorado with Kanas or with Iowa State every year seems criminally wasteful. Still seems stupid to make a long term problem for short term gain.

[bolverk 29,660]

15 minutes ago, bullet said:

What makes the SEC and Big 10 special and more valuable are the rivalries.  The SEC often went years without seeing other teams.  But the key teams they saw every year.

I think it is a huge mistake to not give every team at least two every year rivals.  It just loses the spice.

In addition to the 4 above, add Utah/CU, BYU/ASU, CU/AU in the west.  UC/UCF/WVU all play each other in the east.  Add Farmageddon and ISU/KU.  Then add TT/OSU, TT/UH, UH/TCU and BU/OSU.

You can also do 2 others 3 out of 4 and the other 11 still see 2 out of 4.

 

 

From the Tech perspective, you could also add TCU into that mix of rivals. There's some pretty deep history between those schools. I think they started playing in 1926 just a year after they started playing football, which would be Tech's oldest rival in the new Big 12.

There's also the Amon Carter connection who played a huge role using his influence in getting a school for West Texas, along with his buddy Will Rogers, whose statue is on the Tech campus. I think it was Rogers who paid for the Tech band to travel to TCU really early on, making them the first college marching band to go to an away game, hence "the Goin' Band from Raiderland" moniker.

[TKthunder2 4,988]

7 hours ago, redswingline said:

I assume the dumb ass 9 conference game slate will continue.

They should drop down to 8 and play an FCS team in November.

I hate this. But I agree with you. Until the SEC and ACC go to 9 conference games, you’re just signing up for an extra conference loss across the board.

Use the same stupid tricks the SEC has for years. Play a few early season conference games for eye balls and to let the early loses fade. Play a late season FCS as an easy bye week allowing player rest and an artificial boost in the rankings since you hold your position while all other conferences and losses.

Still, contractually the Big 12 is required to play 9 so it’s a moot point.

[bolverk 29,660]

13 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

It seems real dumb to not just establish a 1-8-8 model. It would be easy to schedule and for fans to keep track of.

The only reason not to do that is pairing today’s Colorado with Kanas or with Iowa State every year seems criminally wasteful. Still seems stupid to make a long term problem for short term gain.

One thing I noticed with the scheduling is they have Colorado playing Houston and UCF 3 times. Gotta bring those recruits to Boulder for Deion.

Adding to the previous TCU point: For a long while, the two schools also played for the supremecy of West Texas with Fort Worth always being more western oriented in psyche despite their geographic location.

The more I think about it, the more I hate the lack of 2-3 protected rivals for each school.

Edited November 2, 2023 by bolverk

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

1 hour ago, Richard Kimball said:

Going off memory, but I think Oklahoma was the driving force behind killing OU-NU. At the time, everyone figured the big three were going to be Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas. Oklahoma wanted the Texas game for recruiting, and they didn't want to have to play them both in conference. 

Yes, Oklahoma was moving to the south and would play Texas every year and it wasn't fair to be the only team to have to play Texas and Nebraska every year, since, at the time Nebraska was actually good and everyone thought Colorado would stay national champ level too.   Not solving that was sort of the first crack in the foundation.   Also kind of dumb from a TV standpoint.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Hurtlocker

[bolverk 29,660]

28 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yes, Oklahoma was moving to the south and would play Texas every year and it wasn't fair to be the only team to have to play Texas and Nebraska every year, since, at the time Nebraska was actually good and everyone thought Colorado would stay national champ level too.   Not solving that was sort of the first crack in the foundation.   Also kind of dumb from a TV standpoint.

Don't forget, though, A&M was actually pretty good at the time as well, heading into the 1996 season, and Tech had been a Top 25 team in 1995. So the South wasn't exactly full of cupcakes either. I'll grant you the North, overall, looked like a stronger division initially, but it wasn't exactly a cakewalk for Oklahoma beyond Texas who was not an all-world beater. So, yeah, at that moment, it did make sense for a mediocre Oklahoma to move South for the DFW recruits and be competitive in a division. 

I just don't think anyone foresaw the competitive imbalance that would eventually result from the North/South split. It made all the logical sense in the world with the teams that were on hand at the time during the merger, and I don't think anyone had the creativity to think that anything else could be done differently with scheduling like what's now been proposed with protected rivals mixed in with a sort of round robin schedule for these new conferences to go with.

I guess that's all a roundabout way of saying I don't blame them for that decision at the time, but I do certainly feel like these new conferences are fucking it up with these schedules of not trying to achieve balance while also respecting/firming up the same number of existing rivalries for each team.

SEC seems like it did pretty well integrating Texas in 2024, but do we have any guarantee they'll continue keeping OU/Arkansas/A&M on the annual schedule?

[TKthunder2 4,988]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

SEC seems like it did pretty well integrating Texas in 2024, but do we have any guarantee they'll continue keeping OU/Arkansas/A&M on the annual schedule?

No. If ESPN doesn’t pay up for a 9th conference game, we will only keep Oklahoma as an annual rival in the 1-7-7 model. If they go to 9 conference games we’d get Arkansas/aggy annually in a 3-6-6 model. Going to 9 games failed this year by 2 votes. Presumably Texas/OU want 9 conference games so when we join it will be a split vote, however Bama/Saban seem to have changed their tune since then and they are supporting playing 9 games and keeping LSU/TN/Auburn as annual rivalries.

['stache 21,802]

7 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yes, Oklahoma was moving to the south and would play Texas every year and it wasn't fair to be the only team to have to play Texas and Nebraska every year, since, at the time Nebraska was actually good and everyone thought Colorado would stay national champ level too.   Not solving that was sort of the first crack in the foundation.   Also kind of dumb from a TV standpoint.

Why did Alabama not complain about playing Tennessee each year cross division at a time when Tennessee was a regular contender?

[Dnaguy 11,943]

14 hours ago, LonghornBreeder said:

Well yeah, but how many viewers is K-State versus Arizona or Iowa state versus Cincinnati going to pull?

They should keep the game and turn it into a spectacle. Start playing the game in the middle of a cleared corn field and make the gold post look like pitchforks or something. That might pull 400k viewers. 

Texas and OU are leaving the big 12. They've got some holes to fill.

 

Just like the 'Field of Dreams' game?! Hell yeah.

Get John Deere to sponsor it.

Bring the teams out on a trailer pulled by a tractor.

DO IT!

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

How do they give up Farmageddon???

I referenced it another post, but it’s clear that they put equity and regular matchups among all schools at the top of their priorities.

Which I think as an overarching structure has a lot of merit. It’s clearly designed to avoid some of the pitfalls of the past and of other leagues. But you have to find a way to protect a regional matchup that is not only the longest never interrupted series in college football, but has been a wildly entertaining series for the past 2 decades.

Apparently Mack Rhoades said this model was subject to change in lieu of fan feedback, and my god are they hearing it from Wildcat and Cyclone fans.

[Zeus 6,018]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Why did Alabama not complain about playing Tennessee each year cross division at a time when Tennessee was a regular contender?

They enjoyed kicking their sorry asses for 15 years of suck, can't complain the first couple years of half ass decent. 

[Zeus 6,018]

13 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I referenced it another post, but it’s clear that they put equity and regular matchups among all schools at the top of their priorities.

Which I think as an overarching structure has a lot of merit. It’s clearly designed to avoid some of the pitfalls of the past and of other leagues. But you have to find a way to protect a regional matchup that is not only the longest never interrupted series in college football, but has been a wildly entertaining series for the past 2 decades.

Apparently Mack Rhoades said this model was subject to change in lieu of fan feedback, and my god are they hearing it from Wildcat and Cyclone fans.

Just play each other "out of conference"

The rig12 is dog shit though everyone would've guessed they don't understand rivalries and CFB