Realignment talk not going away

[billfromlaketravis 11,302]

23 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Is there a number they need to get to? The Nevada schools, Utah State, and San Jose State would get them back to 10. 

[TKthunder2 4,970]

21 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Good luck with that exit fee. They also need at least 2 more to have the minimum of 8 full members. Surprised UNLV (30k enrollment, basketball history, good market) wasn’t on their list of initial candidates. Last spot for 8 is a toss up between Utah State (geographical bridge to CSU 25k+ enrollment) and San Jose State (major metro 30k+ enrollment).

I’d take all of the above and try to add a Texas school like UNT or Texas State to recreate the Texas connection like they had with TCU. That gets you 10 teams for a 9 game round robin schedule leaving 3 OOC games, one for your P4 payday game, one for a G5 home and home, and the last for an FCS cupcake.

Other schools: Hawaii is a pain in the ass for travel, New Mexico sucks at sports, Wyoming is tiny (10k enrollment), no one seems to like Reno, and Air Force is a wild card that could be good or could be a head ache.

If this goes through look for the MWC to invite UTEP and NMSU from CUSA, Southern Utah and possibly non fb Utah Valley from the WAC to stabilize before turning their gaze at possible FCS upgrades from the Big Sky.

[Texas Wahoo 3,379]

8 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Good luck with that exit fee. They also need at least 2 more to have the minimum of 8 full members. Surprised UNLV (30k enrollment, basketball history, good market) wasn’t on their list of initial candidates. Last spot for 8 is a toss up between Utah State (geographical bridge to CSU 25k+ enrollment) and San Jose State (major metro 30k+ enrollment).

I’d take all of the above and try to add a Texas school like UNT or Texas State to recreate the Texas connection like they had with TCU. That gets you 10 teams for a 9 game round robin schedule leaving 3 OOC games, one for your P4 payday game, one for a G5 home and home, and the last for an FCS cupcake.

Other schools: Hawaii is a pain in the ass for travel, New Mexico sucks at sports, Wyoming is tiny (10k enrollment), no one seems to like Reno, and Air Force is a wild card that could be good or could be a head ache.

If this goes through look for the MWC to invite UTEP and NMSU from CUSA, Southern Utah and possibly non fb Utah Valley from the WAC to stabilize before turning their gaze at possible FCS upgrades from the Big Sky.

If they are really going after only those four first, it makes me think they are looking elsewhere for the other two schools.  Otherwise, why wouldn't they just include all six at the same time.

If so, they could be considering schools like UTSA or Texas State.  Not sure who else might make sense outside of Mountain West schools.

[Texas Wahoo 3,379]

 

 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,862]

 

[WelfareBuysMyWeed 5,365]

The All-State conference, sponsored by Farmers.

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

I’d like to see Air Force and Wyoming in there

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

Also - this might be where the Dakotas announce an FBS jump up.  Maybe not to the Pac, but to whatever coalescences around the MWC leftovers 

[LTbear 4,152]

8 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Good luck with that exit fee.

WSU and OSU have all the PAC settlement money (several tens of millions) to help with that. 

[LTbear 4,152]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Also - this might be where the Dakotas announce an FBS jump up.  Maybe not to the Pac, but to whatever coalescences around the MWC leftovers 

I'd be surprised. The Dakotas (like the Montanas) have no market worth squat to a TV deal. UTEP and NMSU would be where the MWC goes first, is my guess.

[GreenspointTexas 9,495]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

I'd be surprised. The Dakotas (like the Montanas) have no market worth squat to a TV deal. UTEP and NMSU would be where the MWC goes first, is my guess.

Rice would be a good addition

[LTbear 4,152]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Rice would be a good addition

Would that be worth it to Rice though?

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

9 minutes ago, LTbear said:

I'd be surprised. The Dakotas (like the Montanas) have no market worth squat to a TV deal. UTEP and NMSU would be where the MWC goes first, is my guess.

I think the Dakotas and Montanas have a pretty good thing going being the kings of FCS.  But it feels like there's a latent obsession with "MOAR" in this sport.

I would bet they all get better TV ratings than UTEP or NMSU too.  Those are small pop states, but they are football crazy, and the Dakota schools bring in a ton of kids from neighboring states (Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska) with cheap tuition.

Edited September 12 by Al_4_ISU

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,100]

Dang so I guess this is happening today...

 

Guessing no matter who they add they aren't getting their auto bid to the playoff back, so welcome to the G6 Wazzu and Oregon State!

['stache 21,726]

I figured they take them all and just keep the name. Who are they looking to leave behind? Air Force would work for the American, make the CIC series a conference trophy. The rest to catch all CUSA? Add UTEP, NMSU, Dakotas, and Montana and stay FBS?

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

I think it's funny that the MWC formally said "nah" to the merger proposal and is now getting raided by those they rejected.

It's like they learned nothing from the Pac 12 rejecting the Irate 8.  It's the exact same scenario playing out the next rung down the ladder.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,100]

The headline gave me a good chuckle:

https://pac-12.com/news/2024/9/12/general-ushering-in-a-new-era-the-pac-12-conference-strengthens-its-legacy-by-welcoming-four-respected-academic-and-athletic-universities.aspx

Spoiler

 

Ushering in a new era, the Pac-12 Conference strengthens its legacy by welcoming four respected academic and athletic universities

Boise State University, Colorado State University, California State University, Fresno, and San Diego State University to join Oregon State and Washington State Universities

9/12/2024 6:05:00 AM

By: Pac-12 Conference 

Story Links

The six universities unite to drive growth, exposure and value for the legacy and
brand of the 100-year-old conference, its member institutions and student-athletes
 

SAN RAMON, CA (September 12, 2024) – The Pac-12 Conference Board of Directors voted unanimously to admit Boise State University, Colorado State University, California State University, Fresno, and San Diego State University, four respected institutions celebrated for their achievements in both academics and athletics, to the Pac-12 Conference effective July 1, 2026. Competition will begin for all conference sports in the 2026-27 academic year.
 

Following the review of the formal written applications from the four universities, Pac-12 Commissioner Teresa Gould and the conference Board of Directors strategically evaluated each university’s application using five prioritized measures and established criteria which included academics and athletics performance; media and brand evaluation; commitment to athletics success; geography and logistics; culture and student-athlete welfare.
 

“For over a century, the Pac-12 Conference has been recognized as a leading brand in intercollegiate athletics,” Commissioner Teresa Gould stated. “We will continue to pursue bold cutting-edge opportunities for growth and progress, to best serve our member institutions and student-athletes. I am thankful to our board for their efforts to welcome Boise State University, Colorado State University, California State University, Fresno, and San Diego State University to the conference.  An exciting new era for the Pac-12 Conference begins today.”
 

The Pac-12 Conference has a legacy of excellence in athletics and academics. It has produced championship-caliber individuals both on and off the field and will continue its lineage with the additions of Boise State University, Colorado State University, California State University, Fresno, and San Diego State University. 
 

Oregon State University President Jayathi Murthy and Washington State University President Kirk Schulz added in a joint statement: “We are honored to welcome the distinguished leadership of Boise State University President Dr. Marlene Tromp, Colorado State University President Amy Parsons, California State University, Fresno President Dr. Saúl Jiménez-Sandoval, and San Diego State University President Dr. Adela de la Torre to the Pac-12 Board of Directors. We eagerly anticipate their uniquely insightful contributions during this transformative era for the conference and collegiate athletics.”
 

United with Oregon State and Washington State Universities, the four new members of the conference recognize the importance of strategic and innovative thinking. All six are committed to taking unconventional approaches to ensure the success of the conference and its member institutions in addition to providing incredible experiences for student-athletes. 
 

Oregon State University and Washington State University are currently operating as members of the Pac-12 Conference as part of a NCAA two-year grace period and will continue to do so for the 2025-26 academic season before the four new members officially join. The collective six universities will collaboratively chart additional membership and other future conference considerations.

 

 

So no one joining till 2026 and they still gotta add at least 2 more to stay a conference, wondering where they turn next 

[4th&Five 41,435]

 

['stache 21,726]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think it's funny that the MWC formally said "nah" to the merger proposal and is now getting raided by those they rejected.

It's like they learned nothing from the Pac 12 rejecting the Irate 8.  It's the exact same scenario playing out the next rung down the ladder.

My guess is that these four said no to the merger because they want to leave others behind. I’m just not sure who, none of them strike me as particularly weak in comparison but I’m no MWC expert. SJSU always seemed worthless but No Cal has some value I would think.

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

My guess is that these four said no to the merger because they want to leave others behind. I’m just not sure who, none of them strike me as particularly weak in comparison but I’m no MWC expert. SJSU always seemed worthless but No Cal has some value I would think.

Yeah, it seems to me like those schools all had mostly equal worth (agree on SJSU) so a merger with Wazzu/Ore State under the Pac moniker always made the most sense to me.

[Magus Ossis 2,753]

I'm no expert at conference building. Is there any chance they would try to add a couple of "partner" schools from Texas to get a market presence here? Some combo of Rice, TXST, UTSA, UTEP?

[LTbear 4,152]

1 minute ago, Magus Ossis said:

I'm no expert at conference building. Is there any chance they would try to add a couple of "partner" schools from Texas to get a market presence here? Some combo of Rice, TXST, UTSA, UTEP?

Sure, they might try, but it has to be financially lucrative enough for those schools to jump. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,382]

I think there's certainly a chance.  I'm just not sure those do any more for you than schools like UNLV or Air Force. 

I would be curious to get the Texan perspective, but from the outside it seems like Texas State and UTSA are the G5 Texas schools with the biggest upside in terms of actually drawing a following.  I might have put UNT there at one point, but it seems like those places have more of a base for whatever reason.

['stache 21,726]

I don’t see the upside for them either. AAC is still at least equal to those PAC 6 and geography is better with AAC. Rice probably is content with where they are, probably have good relations with Tulane academically. UTEP has been left out of both for some reason. I don’t see that anything has really changed there, they and NMSU are probably CUSA for life.

Edited September 12 by 'stache

[LTbear 4,152]

8 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think there's certainly a chance.  I'm just not sure those do any more for you than schools like UNLV or Air Force. 

I would be curious to get the Texan perspective, but from the outside it seems like Texas State and UTSA are the G5 Texas schools with the biggest upside in terms of actually drawing a following.  I might have put UNT there at one point, but it seems like those places have more of a base for whatever reason.

Agreed those are the two, but honestly I think they're both in leagues that are better long term. 

[Texas Wahoo 3,379]

1 hour ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Dang so I guess this is happening today...

 

Guessing no matter who they add they aren't getting their auto bid to the playoff back, so welcome to the G6 Wazzu and Oregon State!

 

None of the conferences get an auto-bid.  It's the top five conference champions, so they will be competing with the champions of the AAC and Sun Belt, mostly.

Edited September 12 by Texas Wahoo

[Magus Ossis 2,753]

2 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Agreed those are the two, but honestly I think they're both in leagues that are better long term. 

I'm not arguing against that. Who 15 years ago would have guessed that we would be discussing the possibility of the Pac12 coming calling for Texas State or the likelihood that they are better off turning down the offer?

[BurntEyes 5,762]

8 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think there's certainly a chance.  I'm just not sure those do any more for you than schools like UNLV or Air Force. 

I would be curious to get the Texan perspective, but from the outside it seems like Texas State and UTSA are the G5 Texas schools with the biggest upside in terms of actually drawing a following.  I might have put UNT there at one point, but it seems like those places have more of a base for whatever reason.

Just quickly looking at the enrollment and location of those they are all 30-40k enrollement and with the exception of SWT or TxTu (or whatever it is) are in large to fairly large cities that don't have other college teams to support. In San Marcos, (SWT) I would think a winner would consistently draw a good Sat crowd. I would agree that those seem like good choices. I personally love Rice for the academic and baseball aspects. But there are people on this board that live in all those cities and I'm certain they have a much better feel for the reality. 

[Saint Austin 739]

This version of the Pac doesn't seem like much of an upgrade from the American, but I could see UTEP or Texas State upgrading to somewhere out west if given the opportunity.

[TKthunder2 4,970]

The PAC12 would ideally want to go after Rice, Tulane, Memphis (team with history and name recognition) plus UTSA (solid program and market) however the P12 TV deal and western travel doesn’t exactly seem appealing.

I don’t think the PAC12 will drop lower to look at UNT or Texas St but the MWC might (especially if they grab NMSU/UTEP from CUSA as a stop gap).

I do think SJSU is an interesting candidate. They fit and would be beneficial for the PAC, but I assume the PAC12 thinks that they might have an outside shot at getting Cal/Stanford back if the ACC explodes but know they would not want to be in the same conference as the Spartans.

[billfromlaketravis 11,302]

Personally, I’d take SJSU and UNLV and call it a day. 

['stache 21,726]

Unless they are next and care more about geography, Air Force should join AAC tomorrow.

[BurntOrange&White 39,220]

41 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Sure, they might try, but it has to be financially lucrative enough for those schools to jump. 

UTSA would be a harder pull for them because of the AAC affiliation. Texas State would be a lot easier and would be a smart choice if they are looking at “State” schools. 
 

 

Teams not from AAC they should look at imo are:

 

Liberty

Wyoming

Appalachian St

Texas St

Marshall 

UCONN

Edited September 12 by BurntOrange&White

[JBJ 3,637]

I'd be surprised if any AAC teams left, so that leaves NMSU, UTEP, Texas State, and Sam Houston as regional teams outside the MW.  Merging always made the most sense.  I'm not sure Pac can put together a better conference than just absorbing the rest of the MW.

[Laxtonto 11,898]

I got a feeling that the PAC people running this know that this needs to be a regional conference to limit costs because the TV $$ just won't be there for the non-Power conferences from here on out. Make the cash you can on basketball units and CFP payouts and limit the costs you can. They wont sniff 20M per regarless of who they realistically can pull from Texas, so why saddle your AD's with a huge jump in travel expenses.

 

Maybe UTEP (but that might be a bit too far) . My guess it will be two of UNLV, Nevada SJSU and AF. 

[LTbear 4,152]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

UTSA would be a harder pull for them because of the AAC affiliation. Texas State would be a lot easier and would be a smart choice if they are looking at “State” schools. 
 

 

Teams not from AAC they should look at imo are:

 

Liberty

Wyoming

Appalachian St

Texas St

Marshall 

UCONN

Honestly I'd be a little surprised if Texas State would go. They're in a good situation with a lot of East Coast time slots and exposure. The competition level would be the same. I don't see any enormous selling point. 

[JBJ 3,637]

Who are the most desirable of the remaining MW?  Utah State, UNLV, and AFA?

[JBJ 3,637]

20 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Unless they are next and care more about geography, Air Force should join AAC tomorrow.

Finally getting the academies together in the same conference just makes sense.

[Huckleberry 32,628]

7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I got a feeling that the PAC people running this know that this needs to be a regional conference to limit costs because the TV $$ just won't be there for the non-Power conferences from here on out. Make the cash you can on basketball units and CFP payouts and limit the costs you can. They wont sniff 20M per regarless of who they realistically can pull from Texas, so why saddle your AD's with a huge jump in travel expenses.

 

Maybe UTEP (but that might be a bit too far) . My guess it will be two of UNLV, Nevada SJSU and AF. 

I would take all 4 of those and go for the 9 game round robin. That system creates the strongest strength of schedule possible to get your champion into the CFP top 5.

Very happy for the 2-Pac. They have played this very well every step of the way so far. I absolutely can't wait for the first season where one of them is in the playoff while all the old Pac-12 schools who left them are watching. 

Only question left is if the remaining MWC schools figure out they got beaten and jump to join, especially the 4 discussed here. 

['stache 21,726]

18 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Finally getting the academies together in the same conference just makes sense.

Especially when it's called "The American." The tag line should be "Fuck Yeah."

The Southeast Conference: It Just Means More.

The American: Fuck Yeah.

Edited September 12 by 'stache

['stache 21,726]

I thought Tx State was AAC for some reason. But i'm not even sure the new Pac is enough of an upgrade from the Sunbelt to justify the additional travel costs and loss of regional ties with Arkansas and Louisiana for the Pacific NW. I predict that Sam Houston goes back to FCS soon. I have no idea how they qualified for FBS.

Edited September 12 by 'stache

[66BUFF 2,541]

59 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I would take all 4 of those and go for the 9 game round robin. That system creates the strongest strength of schedule possible to get your champion into the CFP top 5.

Very happy for the 2-Pac. They have played this very well every step of the way so far. I absolutely can't wait for the first season where one of them is in the playoff while all the old Pac-12 schools who left them are watching. 

Only question left is if the remaining MWC schools figure out they got beaten and jump to join, especially the 4 discussed here. 

[SimonBolivar 10,887]

37 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I thought Tx State was AAC for some reason. But i'm not even sure the new Pac is enough of an upgrade from the Sunbelt to justify the additional travel costs and loss of regional ties with Arkansas and Louisiana for the Pacific NW. I predict that Sam Houston goes back to FCS soon. I have no idea how they qualified for FBS.

SunBelt has done well for themselves, but if TXST didn't care about leaving SFA or SHSU then they sure won't care about leaving stAte, ULL, or ULM.

[WBT 20,342]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

I would be curious to get the Texan perspective, but from the outside it seems like Texas State and UTSA are the G5 Texas schools with the biggest upside in terms of actually drawing a following.  I might have put UNT there at one point, but it seems like those places have more of a base for whatever reason.

Depends on how serious aggy is about sticking it to snakey and forging their own identity

[Royale with cheese 1,431]

2 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

I'm no expert at conference building. Is there any chance they would try to add a couple of "partner" schools from Texas to get a market presence here? Some combo of Rice, TXST, UTSA, UTEP?

As long as we're talking schools of that ilk, might as well throw in UofH.

[USC Traveler 488]

On 9/3/2024 at 11:33 AM, TKthunder2 said:

They want to take the best of the MWC (Boise, Fresno, SDSU, etc) and AAC (Tulane, Memphis, UTSA) and make a new PAC that is better than both.

 

There it is.  Good call TK.

I agree that's where this is heading.  They'd be smart to add AFA to set the stage for a an eventual merger with the ACC leftovers.

I could see the ACC leftovers (Wake, Cuse, BC,Stanford, Cal, etc) bringing in the service academies, adding the top Sunbelt schools and merging with the “new PAC” to become the far and away dominant G6 conference. The champ of that conference would almost certainly get an autobid for as long as that structure exists.

They would get the best G6 tv deal, and having east and west divisions would allow them to play a mostly regional schedule to reduce travel costs.

[Texas Wahoo 3,379]

 

 

[Lonestar88 4,585]

I’m surprised the PAC didn’t just take two more MWC teams.

You have to have 8 teams to qualify as a conference and NCAA rules give conferences that have been raided a grace period of 2 years. So the PAC has to get to 8 teams by the summer of 2026.

They need two more teams. You can’t just hope for the ACC to implode, because even if that happens, it’s not likely to happen that fast. They have to already have something else in the works that we just don’t know about yet.

[Jabberwocky 1,666]

Pac doesn't want to add more MWC schools right now because it would drop MWC below 8 schools and lead to legal issues. Otherwise, UNLV and Airforce would be added right now.

Next for the Pac will probably be UTSA first and foremost. Memphis and Tulane are not keen on the idea of traveling west for all of their games. That leaves a basket of UNT, Rice, or Tulsa as a probable addition with UTSA.

[Laxtonto 11,898]

Just now, Lonestar88 said:

I’m surprised the PAC didn’t just take two more MWC teams.

You have to have 8 teams to qualify as a conference and NCAA rules give conferences that have been raided a grace period of 2 years. So the PAC has to get to 8 teams by the summer of 2026.

They need two more teams. You can’t just hope for the ACC to implode, because even if that happens, it’s not likely to happen that fast. They have to already have something else in the works that we just don’t know about yet.

I am wondering if this is one of those political games tied to politics in the state of Nevada again. The Pac would probably only want one of the two and the BOR/State is posturing that isnt going to happen.