Realignment talk not going away

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

41 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Where do you see this?   Their athletic contributions have basically remained flat over the past decade, while their school funds used has doubled.

hey, hey, this is the realignment thread, take your fucking facts elsewhere

[utee94 15832]

5 minutes ago, Soldierhorn said:

Misery started it but it was Nebbie making deals with Delany behind the scenes is what got UT/0U and everyone all stirred up and checking for landing spots.  For the conference to stay together, everyone wanted assurances that nobody had intentions on leaving.  At the June 2010 Big12 conference meeting, there was a movement to get everyone to sign a contract binding everyone to the conference.  Everyone signed but Nebbie and Buffy; CU already announced they were gong to the PAC in May 2010. Obviously, Tommyboy & Pinhead wouldnt sign it and made a big deal about everyone pressuring them because they were making a behind the scenes deal with Delany that was intended to stab the Big12 in the back.  On the drive back to nebbie, nebbie land, they had phone conversations with Delany and said the timeline has to be moved up or they will have to sign the contract. There is absolutely no way a 100yr decision is made over the phone unless preliminary discussion and decisions were made previously.  Delany, Dr Oz and Pinhead are the villains here and, yet, they went on a campaign to deride the Big12 and UT specifically for what they were going to do anyway. 

BTW, it had NOTHING to do with the LHN. The LHN hadnt even been thought of by June 2010

Yup.  The B1G was never even going to make an announcement about POSSIBLE expansion until after they'd already done their due diligence and had a short list of willing participants signed up.  Nebraska and Delaney were dealing well before the "public announcement" in December 2009.  That Missouri was the first to publicly drop her panties is actually an indication that they weren't even being considered by the B1G and were NOT on the short list-- because everyone that was, kept it quiet and worked in the background on their potential deals with the B1G.

And yup again, the LHN wasn't an issue at all in the 2010 realignment.  It wasn't until the 2011 round of realignment came along, that the ags used it as their scapegoat for all of their lying about being committed to the B12, and their back-stabbing and mudslinging on the way out the door.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

I’m not blaming the LHN. It was a convenient excuse for Aggy and Mizzou and that’s it

[Scholz 11944]

16 minutes ago, IDIOTsavant said:

FYI, that was Drew Kelson. Sergio wore #2...he also didn't get to campus until 2006.

[Soldierhorn 206]

35 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I’m not blaming the LHN. It was a convenient excuse for Aggy and Mizzou and that’s it

exactly. That's all it was. 

After all is said and done and signatures signed, these malcontent school presidents couldnt control themselves, they wanted to be heroes to their brainwashed band of brothers and they would brag about how they got out and tried to screw the Big12.  Like Nebbie's Perlman admitted what he did, aggy's president, Loftin bragged about what he did as well.  At a luncheon, he said it took him 18 months working with the sec to get aggy out of the Big12 and into the sec.  From when he said that, 18 months puts their decision timeline at around Aug 2010, soon after nebbie's announcement; at what a lot of us expected at the time. Again, this was months before the LHN was even thought of and certainly before its creation. Loftin started using nebbie's example for how to leave the conference covertly working behind the scenes and overtly creating chaos and false boogeymen (UT, and later the LHN) to get the fan base behind the move that would come later.  Misery had already embarrassed themselves in 2009 and were more then willing to let aggy take the lead but they had the same intentions. To make matters worse, MU's president continued to chair the Big12's realignment committee up until the end, even though he knew what the school's intentions were. 

And, you are right, the LHN had nothing to do with either aggy or mizzy's decision to leave the conference; they just used it as part of their boogeyman strategy to rile up the fan base

Edited June 20, 2019 by Soldierhorn

[camel at sea 589]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:11 AM, utee94 said:

Agree.  In their own way, Nebraska made a "100-year decision" of their own.  Changing it would be admitting they were wrong.  No way that happens.

 

If the Big 12 continues making the CFP at a higher clip than the Big Ten... then who knows.  The Big 12 dominated the national football perception battle with the Big Ten for a very long time prior to the realignment stuff.  It's moving back in that direction again.  I'd guess that Scott Frost would prefer some games in places where he might recruit some high level skill position talent.  Texas >>> the entire B1G footprint on that front.  Osborne didn't recruit Texas all that hard but the modern program that Frost is trying to build would benefit from better Sun Belt exposure.  Their AD, Bill Moos, has already started selling their fanbase on scheduling Kansas, KSU, and ISU during OOC.  There are 4 games with OU on the future schedule, too.   That doesn't strike me as a place that's entirely comfortable in their new home.  

Speaking of that new home... they joined to share a division (and annual games) against Michigan.  That went away.  They're basically in the Big 12 North again.  They had a Black Friday game with "new rival" Iowa.  That went away, though it's apparently coming back in a few years. They had AAU membership.  Big Ten schools voted that away. 

Put all of that together and offer them some kind of face-saving concession (immediate full payout, annual game with OU, etc.) and that's something that could work.  I don't even think they'd necessarily be taking a big media rights hit.  OU isn't that far behind the B1G right now and 1) NU could expect an OU(ish) Tier 3 deal, and 2) NU would improve the Tier 1 and 2 deals for the Big 12.  Their President could sell "we're going home, the only reason we left was due to cable-model driven media rights instability" to the fans and donors.  

[Valmy77 13243]

On 6/19/2019 at 1:22 PM, jinx said:

I always thought this site was Aggy, and then they posted this and I was sure...

The commentary is top notch idiocy, and of course the LHN is the cause of all conference changes.

 

 

I prefer current Big 12 to old Big 12. Divisions suck.

Nebraska, Missouri, A&M, and Colorado made the Big 12 better by getting the fuck out. So thanks guys.

And Colorado, A&M, and Missouri were, and remain, incredibly mediocre programs from top to bottom anyway.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Valmy77

[Hurtlocker 2213]

2 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Put all of that together and offer them some kind of face-saving concession (immediate full payout, annual game with OU, etc.) ...

Having that end was one of the major reasons why the butts were all hurt.   Why would OU be the only team to play both Nebraska and Texas now when that wasn't an option before?   The Sooners need Texas far more than they need Nebraska.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Hurtlocker

[notre dame joe 188]

12 hours ago, utee94 said:

Sure, but every member of their team was pretty much almost murdered that day.  'Twas glorious, but still not enough payback for our 2001 meltdown that gave them the conference championship.

I will always think you took a dive to avoid/stick_Nebraska_with the 2001 Canes, a proto-NFL team.

[Hagbard Celine 10871]

off topic, but have to add, Looch first claimed the "standing offer" in late 2008 during the season.

on topic: i want to be in a division or league with LSU, USC, 0u & Stanford.

make it so. /picard

[HtownHorn 14724]

ou and Nebraska should be playing every season again. The only respect I give to the SEC East is their desire to keep their long standing OOC rivalry games going.

[camel at sea 589]

2 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Having that end was one of the major reasons why the butts were all hurt.   Why would OU be the only team to play both Nebraska and Texas now when that wasn't an option before?   The Sooners need Texas far more than they need Nebraska.

Big 12 1.0 should have looked into cross-division rivalry games at some point.  It would have helped to tie the North and South together more closely.  OU didn't want to do it in the 90s when Nebraska was rolling.  There were a lot of people in Norman that thought the OU football program was so down that it might not ever fully recover.  As far as I know, the conference never considered it after that.  

One of the other issues with cross-division rivalry games is how to split it up.  You could give OU-NU and UT-CU, and that's probably relatively equitable.  The Buffs won a title in 1990 and had been a legit national power for several years.  But in 1996, who was aggy going to play?  K-State wasn't a proven program.  Mizzou was a dumpster fire.  KU had basically one good year (1995) in decades. 

Today though I doubt OU would care much about being the only program playing both UT and NU every year.  The Huskers would be a marquee in-conference game in years that OU's marquee OOC game was away.  And I think Nebraska has a lot to gain by getting back its nationally relevant rivalry game.  Reminding fans and recruits that they're "Nebraska" on a big TV stage would help them a lot.  

[Soldierhorn 206]

5 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Put all of that together and offer them some kind of face-saving concession (immediate full payout, annual game with OU, etc.) and that's something that could work.  I don't even think they'd necessarily be taking a big media rights hit.  OU isn't that far behind the B1G right now and 1) NU could expect an OU(ish) Tier 3 deal, and 2) NU would improve the Tier 1 and 2 deals for the Big 12.  Their President could sell "we're going home, the only reason we left was due to cable-model driven media rights instability" to the fans and donors.  

0U didnt want another rivalry game while NU was in the Big12 for a reason, which is what the game would become to NU. I think they are foolish even making limited home-home games with NU. It really only helps NU and a rivalry type game, even limited series, doesnt increase 0U's chance at CFP.  A quality P5 game is one thing but a regular game against a program that will treat it as a rivalry is another altogether.  But, hey, more power to 'em

Edited June 21, 2019 by Soldierhorn

[LTbear 4170]

20 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Where do you see this?   Their athletic contributions have basically remained flat over the past decade, while their school funds used has doubled.

I'll see if I can find any numbers later if I get a chance, as I'm mostly speaking from odd connections I've made bumping elbows at tailgates (so hefty salt grains recommended). I know revenue has increased much more than is accounted for PAC growth, donations took a bump post-move, and they received the largest endowment in program history just a few months ago.

All that said, it's also hard to disentangle the impact of the current athletic director, who's a great fundraiser.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Kick West Virginia out, let Nebraska come crawling back, play a nine-game conference round robin with OU-Nebraska their regular season finale. That way OU has to play Texas and then OK State and Nebraska back to back at the end. You're asking "what's good about that, it sounds like it would be hard on OU?" and I say FUCK OU, so.

[Al_4_ISU 12464]

10 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Having that end was one of the major reasons why the butts were all hurt.   Why would OU be the only team to play both Nebraska and Texas now when that wasn't an option before?   The Sooners need Texas far more than they need Nebraska.

Nebraska and OU could have kept that game, but in the mid 90's neither one seemed too intent to keep it annual.

Citing that as a dissatisfier was just like citing unequal revenue distribution.  Nebraska had plenty of power to effectuate both an annual game with OU and equal revenue sharing and consistently didn't want it.  Then, suddenly, when they're butt hurt, it's a big deal. 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

35 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Nebraska had plenty of power to effectuate both an annual game with OU and equal revenue sharing and consistently didn't want it.  Then, suddenly, when they're butt hurt, it's a big deal. 

Nebraska's feelings started getting hurt in 2002. Before that, they had zero problems with the Big 12-- because they were still winning, big. They had an upward blip in 2003, but when they got stomped three times that year (ONCE BY TEXAS OH NOOOES) it became a fight for the soul of the Big 12 (that kind of overheated rhetoric from a senior administrator is always a great sign of stability). 

[Thiefery 5012]

20 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

That's a lot of money being thrown out to schools like Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa.  I doubt Nebraska would want to return , especially when they are set to get a full cut in 2021.

[utee94 15832]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Nebraska and OU could have kept that game, but in the mid 90's neither one seemed too intent to keep it annual.

Citing that as a dissatisfier was just like citing unequal revenue distribution.  Nebraska had plenty of power to effectuate both an annual game with OU and equal revenue sharing and consistently didn't want it.  Then, suddenly, when they're butt hurt, it's a big deal. 

Neither A&M nor Nebraska voted for equal revenue sharing, ever, while they were in the B12.  Not even once.  Which is yet more reason why I laugh at their butthurt fans when they try to spin their lies and white knight themselves while vilifying Texas.

 

[Soldierhorn 206]

2 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

arent Rutgers and Maryland still getting partial shares at a huge disproportionate rate? Rutgers was at about $11mil and MD somewhere around $20mil.  You would thiknk the per-school take would come down if all 14 teams took an equal share. 

[Hurtlocker 2213]

16 hours ago, LTbear said:

I'll see if I can find any numbers later if I get a chance, as I'm mostly speaking from odd connections I've made bumping elbows at tailgates (so hefty salt grains recommended). I know revenue has increased much more than is accounted for PAC growth, donations took a bump post-move, and they received the largest endowment in program history just a few months ago.

All that said, it's also hard to disentangle the impact of the current athletic director, who's a great fundraiser.  

Yeah the only real increase happened just recently.   They got no real bump in donations from the move...

imgur

[Hurtlocker 2213]

12 hours ago, Soldierhorn said:

arent Rutgers and Maryland still getting partial shares at a huge disproportionate rate? Rutgers was at about $11mil and MD somewhere around $20mil.  You would thiknk the per-school take would come down if all 14 teams took an equal share. 

Yes.   Maryland gets paid more because they pushed future earnings forward, stealing from the future.

[utee94 15832]

8 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yes.   Maryland gets paid more because they pushed future earnings forward, stealing from the future.

As I recall they desperately needed to do this, in order to pay off a rather hefty exit penalty from the ACC.

[Hurtlocker 2213]

37 minutes ago, utee94 said:

As I recall they desperately needed to do this, in order to pay off a rather hefty exit penalty from the ACC.

not to mention being in the hole before they even left

[Machinator 32099]

Actual realignment news

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Machinator

[Magus Ossis 2802]

No one is leaving the big 10 unless/until that conference stops completely crushing the media revenue landscape. Cornholers may have been petty and stupid to leave, but they have fallen into a goldmine. They are in position potentially to make more from their rights than we do, LHN included, once they go to full share.

[utee94 15832]

4 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

No one is leaving the big 10 unless/until that conference stops completely crushing the media revenue landscape. Cornholers may have been petty and stupid to leave, but they have fallen into a goldmine. They are in position potentially to make more from their rights than we do, LHN included, once they go to full share.

The cable subscriber model is fading away, and with it the huge revenues from the BTN.  The gap's likely to narrow, not increase, in the future.  But I still don't see Nebraska leaving the B1G.  Academically it's good for them, even if their new best buddies are the ones that voted them out of AAU.

 

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, Magus Ossis said:

No one is leaving the big 10 unless/until that conference stops completely crushing the media revenue landscape. Cornholers may have been petty and stupid to leave, but they have fallen into a goldmine. They are in position potentially to make more from their rights than we do, LHN included, once they go to full share.

I think they've been at a full share for a couple of years.

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

The cable subscriber model is fading away, and with it the huge revenues from the BTN.  The gap's likely to narrow, not increase, in the future.  But I still don't see Nebraska leaving the B1G.  Academically it's good for them, even if their new best buddies are the ones that voted them out of AAU.

 

Their research funding didn't get better compared to their regional Big 12 peers.  Their US News ranking didn't improve (it got worse.)  I think the talk about academic improvement is assumed to be true but I haven't ever seen any evidence to back it up.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[notre dame joe 188]

It was me. 

 

Delaney was just about to invite UConn but couldn't do it if he read bad things about him on their message board (yes they have one).

[Valmy77 13243]

If UCONN decided to become a FCS independent for football they could count on an entire schedule of SEC teams.

Of course every game would be on the road.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Valmy77

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Full disclosure: I had the runner-up bid to ESPN's $1b bid on the AAC. I bid $12 and unlimited use of South Austin's mom. 

[TexasBuckeye 43]

2 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

UMass was football only in the MAC, but the MAC told them compete in all sports or else get out with football. UMass had been independent since, and not very successful. UConn can join them in a two team conference now!

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Yeah I think this is just the first step in pulling the plug on football.

In 2012 they used $8m in school funds and $9m in student fees to run their athletic program.   In 2017, that total was $42m.  They'll kill the sport, drop their revenues to $50m and spend less on the same branding payback.

[Valmy77 13243]

On 6/20/2019 at 10:19 AM, Soldierhorn said:

BTW, it had NOTHING to do with the LHN. The LHN hadnt even been thought of by June 2010

The LHN was not announced until 2011, after Nebraska and CU had already played their last football games in the Big 12.

[Valmy77 13243]

15 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah I think this is just the first step in pulling the plug on football.

In 2012 they used $8m in school funds and $9m in student fees to run their athletic program.   In 2017, that total was $42m.  They'll kill the sport, drop their revenues to $50m and spend less on the same branding payback.

But what about the Civil Conflict? Nobody has any respect for tradition anymore.

[Laxtonto 12090]

So then who is the hot option for the AAC?

If the other service academies say no then who?

ODU?  NCAA tourney credits and easily in the footprint?

Southern Miss and Marshal don’t have the numbers to make it work

UTSA is a decade away facility wise

UNT will has a major SMU problem 

The F_U schools don’t make sense with UCF and USF

The MWC teams are a poor dream

Is Liberty and the fightin Fallowel a dark horse here? 

Lots of meh options all with their own warts

[Hurtlocker 2213]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

So then who is the hot option for the AAC?

If the other service academies say no then who?

ODU?  NCAA tourney credits and easily in the footprint?

Southern Miss and Marshal don’t have the numbers to make it work

UTSA is a decade away facility wise

UNT will has a major SMU problem 

The F_U schools don’t make sense with UCF and USF

The MWC teams are a poor dream

Is Liberty and the fightin Fallowel a dark horse here? 

Lots of meh options all with their own warts

Great question, hmm, how about...

Army

SUNYB

Toledo

Northern Ill

Western Kentucky

UAB

Rice

?

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Great question, hmm, how about...

Army

SUNYB

Toledo

Northern Ill

Western Kentucky

UAB

Rice

?

SUNYB? Fuck those guys. Man, I will never forgive them for that time they beat the McMaster Marauders in an international game. Bastards.

[Victor Lazlo 1777]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

So then who is the hot option for the AAC?

If the other service academies say no then who?

ODU?  NCAA tourney credits and easily in the footprint?

Southern Miss and Marshal don’t have the numbers to make it work

UTSA is a decade away facility wise

UNT will has a major SMU problem 

The F_U schools don’t make sense with UCF and USF

The MWC teams are a poor dream

Is Liberty and the fightin Fallowel a dark horse here? 

Lots of meh options all with their own warts

Seriously, 

[LTbear 4170]

23 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah the only real increase happened just recently.   They got no real bump in donations from the move...

 

 

Well, something's been going right. They increased donations from west-coast alumni (jump of 400%) and have grown their revenue much more quickly than the PAC 12 or national average since the move. 

http://www.denverpost.com/2010/09/21/cu-moving-to-pac-12-a-year-early/

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/pac-12/university-of-colorado-boulder#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-1

 

As an aside on that recent huge donation, it's from a CSU grad, which I find hilarious. CSU Rams can be aggy-esque in their hatred for the better state school, in general; the donor happened to grow up in Boulder and was always a Buffs fan, even when she followed friends to CSU. 

[LTbear 4170]

On 6/20/2019 at 7:52 AM, Scholz said:

To be fair, Kindle did almost murder their QB that day.

 

 

 

 

On 6/20/2019 at 7:54 AM, utee94 said:

Sure, but every member of their team was pretty much almost murdered that day.  'Twas glorious, but still not enough payback for our 2001 meltdown that gave them the conference championship.

Watching that game I legitimately remember a line from the Friday Night Lights movie popping into my head - from the title game, when the booth commentator says "At some point you have to worry about the safety of the kids."

[ButtFumble 5180]

one can go here and look at budgets and schools funds used by clicking on the individual schools

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

in 2005 CU used $1.64 million in school funds for athletics

in 2010 $5.75

in 2011 $13.9

in 2012 $14.3

then in 2013 down to $5.58 since 2014 it has been in the $10.5 to $11 million dollar range

so they had to use a bunch because of missing out on Big 12 revenues they forfeited and from there they tried to throttle back before realizing that to be in the PAC 12 you have to spend a lot of school funds just like most all of the other PAC 12 schools do

student fees have stayed the same at about $1.5 million though

 

and the pearlman article makes clear that NU was happy in the Big 12, voted 100% with UT on unequal revenues, no conference network (or NU wanted uneven revenues from a conference network), moving the CCG to dallas (pearlman has a delicate ass that does not like cold bleachers), NU was ahead of Texas on developing a network, Texas committed to stay in the Big 12 is NU would do the same and NU declined then pearlman tried to corner Powers at the bar and give a bunch of "what ifs" and Powers told him no discussion Texas had made the commitment and NU had not,  and the only issue that NU ever really had as the partial qualifiers and they were out voted on that 11-1

also there is an MU article where the chancellor of MU (that was the head of the Big 12 expansion committee at the time) made it clear that MU was wanting to stay in the Big 12 and work to expand it, but when boren went on the wallflower tour and the MU Chancellor could not reach boren and had to get their US Congressmen involved to get boren on the phone he knew that MU was leaving the Big 12 at the first decent offer.....now who knows if he would have followed through on that if there was no wallflower tour and the SEC SEC SEC came calling, but he was clear that Texas had nothing to do with the final push out the door

there is also the aggy interview still out there where they state they are in the Big 12 for the long haul and for the long term future......only to up and leave a year later

CU is the only school where both the FANS and administration never blamed Texas although people always try and drag them in.....in the case of MU their administration never really blamed Texas during the move, but their fans did and their administration since then have used that is a convenient excuse to get past the "how come we did not get in the Big 10 like we always wanted and instead we are the western most team in a conference where we play in the east division even though we touch Arkansas"

I have always said that MU did not get in the Big 10 because the Big 10 realized that it was MU that let the word get out about expansion and that is how NU found out and went public and that fucked things up for the Big 10 that was working on some combo of ND, UVA, GT, UNC, Duke or the like

and because all of those ACC schools were so scared to make a move it was taking a LONG TIME to get action and things in place and ND was using the ACC as a beachhead against the Big 10 and when things broke the ACC schools just could not make a move that fast it was just not in the nature of their admins and instead ND threw them a lifeline and snubbed the Big 10 that had been trying to corner ND by telling then join the Big 10 or you may find yourself with a depleted ACC or depleted Big East or both to run off to

once MU fucked it up for the Big 10 the Big 10 was done with them forever

[Hurtlocker 2213]

1 hour ago, LTbear said:

Well, something's been going right. They increased donations from west-coast alumni (jump of 400%) and have grown their revenue much more quickly than the PAC 12 or national average since the move. 

http://www.denverpost.com/2010/09/21/cu-moving-to-pac-12-a-year-early/

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/pac-12/university-of-colorado-boulder#!quicktabs-tab-institution_data-1

 

As an aside on that recent huge donation, it's from a CSU grad, which I find hilarious. CSU Rams can be aggy-esque in their hatred for the better state school, in general; the donor happened to grow up in Boulder and was always a Buffs fan, even when she followed friends to CSU. 

I don't think that represents what you think it does though.   Yes, they recently had one surge in donations, but it wasn't freakish.  WVU had twice as much in donations in 17 than the Buffs.

As for the increase, they lost revenues by leaving, so they started from a lower position.   If USC went from 10 to 30 and Colorado went from 0 to 30, they'll look like they're growing more, but in reality, you're better off with 10 than zero.

[Thiefery 5012]

I remember some Realignment dorks saying the Big12 should have added UCONN...

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

UConn can't drop football, how is OU supposed to win NY6 games without them?