Realignment talk not going away

[notre dame joe 205]

10 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

UConn can't drop football, how is OU supposed to win NY6 games without them?

Via the Sugar Bowl tied to perpetually disappointed opponents.

[notre dame joe 205]

18 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

one can go here and look at budgets and schools funds used by clicking on the individual schools

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

in 2005 CU used $1.64 million in school funds for athletics

in 2010 $5.75

in 2011 $13.9

in 2012 $14.3

then in 2013 down to $5.58 since 2014 it has been in the $10.5 to $11 million dollar range

so they had to use a bunch because of missing out on Big 12 revenues they forfeited and from there they tried to throttle back before realizing that to be in the PAC 12 you have to spend a lot of school funds just like most all of the other PAC 12 schools do

student fees have stayed the same at about $1.5 million though

 

and the pearlman article makes clear that NU was happy in the Big 12, voted 100% with UT on unequal revenues, no conference network (or NU wanted uneven revenues from a conference network), moving the CCG to dallas (pearlman has a delicate ass that does not like cold bleachers), NU was ahead of Texas on developing a network, Texas committed to stay in the Big 12 is NU would do the same and NU declined then pearlman tried to corner Powers at the bar and give a bunch of "what ifs" and Powers told him no discussion Texas had made the commitment and NU had not,  and the only issue that NU ever really had as the partial qualifiers and they were out voted on that 11-1

also there is an MU article where the chancellor of MU (that was the head of the Big 12 expansion committee at the time) made it clear that MU was wanting to stay in the Big 12 and work to expand it, but when boren went on the wallflower tour and the MU Chancellor could not reach boren and had to get their US Congressmen involved to get boren on the phone he knew that MU was leaving the Big 12 at the first decent offer.....now who knows if he would have followed through on that if there was no wallflower tour and the SEC SEC SEC came calling, but he was clear that Texas had nothing to do with the final push out the door

there is also the aggy interview still out there where they state they are in the Big 12 for the long haul and for the long term future......only to up and leave a year later

CU is the only school where both the FANS and administration never blamed Texas although people always try and drag them in.....in the case of MU their administration never really blamed Texas during the move, but their fans did and their administration since then have used that is a convenient excuse to get past the "how come we did not get in the Big 10 like we always wanted and instead we are the western most team in a conference where we play in the east division even though we touch Arkansas"

I have always said that MU did not get in the Big 10 because the Big 10 realized that it was MU that let the word get out about expansion and that is how NU found out and went public and that fucked things up for the Big 10 that was working on some combo of ND, UVA, GT, UNC, Duke or the like

and because all of those ACC schools were so scared to make a move it was taking a LONG TIME to get action and things in place and ND was using the ACC as a beachhead against the Big 10 and when things broke the ACC schools just could not make a move that fast it was just not in the nature of their admins and instead ND threw them a lifeline and snubbed the Big 10 that had been trying to corner ND by telling then join the Big 10 or you may find yourself with a depleted ACC or depleted Big East or both to run off to

once MU fucked it up for the Big 10 the Big 10 was done with them forever

Too much 90210

[Guest]

13 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

UConn can't drop football, how is OU supposed to win NY6 games without them?

Just schedule Maryland?

[Sock Drawer 214]

On 6/18/2019 at 12:48 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

Jim Delaney is the single biggest villain in all of it, IMO.

I blame Kim Delaney.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

9 hours ago, slorch said:

Just schedule Maryland?

how do you schedule an NY6 bowl?

wait, I'm talking to a Tech fan, I might as well ask an Aggie

[SunUvAbitchMarcos 129]

I blame Kim Delaney.

Or Dana?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Machinator 32103]

 

[Dnaguy 12712]

On 6/22/2019 at 10:38 PM, Hurtlocker said:

Great question, hmm, how about...

Army

SUNYB

Toledo

Northern Ill

Western Kentucky

UAB

Rice

?

BYU will be a swing and miss.

If they do add a team, my guess is Army as football only.

How they make that work as a conference game... when it falls a week after their championship IDK.

Western Kentucky, Toledo, and N. Illinois all make some sense but I don’t think they move the needle enough.

All in all, I think they don’t add any teams, they ditch divisions, and play a 9 game conference schedule which includes one guaranteed rival schedule. (Except for Navy) Two best records play in AAC championship game.

Rival tandems being:

UH-SMU

Tulsa-Tulane 

Cincy-Memphis

Temple-ECU

UCF-USF

Or 

UH-Tulane

SMU-Tulsa

Cincy-Temple

ECU-Memphis

USF-UCF

You could also maybe do a Tulsa-UH and SMU-Tulane mix as well.

Who knows.

['stache 22146]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

Strikes me as serious butthurt. Why can't conferences just accept their place in the pecking order? Big East basketball > AAC Basketball. I'm sure there are plenty of worthwhile teams that would even it out with basketball only like WSU.

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

Just now, 'stache said:

Strikes me as serious butthurt. Why can't conferences just accept their place in the pecking order? Big East basketball > AAC Basketball. I'm sure there are plenty of worthwhile teams that would even it out with basketball only like WSU.

To be fair to the those other conferences, without men's or women's bball, I'm not sure why anyone would want UConn.

['stache 22146]

5 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

To be fair to the those other conferences, without men's or women's bball, I'm not sure why anyone would want UConn.

They've played in as many BCS/NY6 football games as the blueblood aggy university.

[torre 1298]

Not that bad on attendance in AAC but significant divide from the top 8.

 

Final 2018 AAC Football Attendance Rankings (after AAC Champ Game)

Here's how the final announced 2018 football attendance rankings were for 2018:

UCF: 44,018
usf: 38,517
ECU: 32,908
Navy: 31,464
Cincinnati: 30,519
Memphis: 30,178
Houston: 29,838
Temple: 28,470
UCONN: 20,924
SMU: 19,383
Tulane: 18,015
Tulsa: 17,098

AAC Average per game: 28,902

 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

1 hour ago, torre said:

Not that bad on attendance in AAC but significant divide from the top 8.

 

Final 2018 AAC Football Attendance Rankings (after AAC Champ Game)

Here's how the final announced 2018 football attendance rankings were for 2018:

UCF: 44,018
usf: 38,517
ECU: 32,908
Navy: 31,464
Cincinnati: 30,519
Memphis: 30,178
Houston: 29,838
Temple: 28,470
UCONN: 20,924
SMU: 19,383
Tulane: 18,015
Tulsa: 17,098

AAC Average per game: 28,902

 

Their basketball attendance has dropped from the 12ks to the 7ks too.   Creighton averages 17k.   I think the powers that be figured out they can't make money with football but they can on basketball, with less investment

Edited June 24, 2019 by Hurtlocker

['stache 22146]

The obvious answer is for WSU to restart their football program. Some want it, others don't. Cost is the obvious barrier. I doubt even the new AAC deal would be enough to make the finances work on a new or revamped stadium and a full D-1 program in a pretty competitive higher end G5 football conference. 

http://footballscoop.com/news/wichita-state-president-adding-football-everybody-wants-no-one-wants-pay/

[notre dame joe 205]

Why does the AAC need to sponsor basketball?

['stache 22146]

Because every school in the conference plays it? I don’t get the question.

['stache 22146]

My guess is that CUSA or Sunbelt will be wiling to take the NE duo of UConn and UMass as football only members.

[Hank Chinaski 6363]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:50 PM, slorch said:

Just schedule Maryland?

lol, like anyone can reasonably be expected to beat Maryland.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

From, like, a respectable Arizona fishwrap:

There's a lull in conference-realignment talk, but another round could be coming

Excerpt:

Quote

Editor’s note: This is the second of a two-part series on the 40th anniversary of Arizona State and Arizona joining what was then the Pac-8 Conference.

"But the relative calm doesn’t mean another flurry like the one that reshaped Power 5 conferences earlier this decade isn’t just around the corner, especially when media-rights contracts come up for renewal in the next five years. 

“It’s pretty likely to happen again,” says AJ Maestas, CEO of Navigate, a sports marketing research firm based in Chicago with a regional office in Scottsdale. “Realignment is a lot more fluid than we feel like it is when we’re in one of these middle periods.

“It would be far more surprising if there was no realignment than if there was.”"

 

"Arizona State and Arizona are periodically proposed as Big 12 targets. However, the Pac-12 media-rights deal expires in 2024, taking two schools from the same state is not considered an expansion plus from a market share standpoint. And, from the ASU side, President Michael Crow has no interest in leaving the company of Stanford and other Pac-12 academic elites.

"It would be smart for the Big 12 to try to get them (Arizona schools) and even smart for those schools to consider it just a point of leverage with their own conference," one analyst said. "To say, 'We have alternatives where the rest of you might not.'

"These presidents don't want to disrupt their alumni base and geographic alignment, then you look at all the ties to students in California and the prestige of the Pac-12 universities. It would be shocking in my mind if the presidents at ASU and UA voted to leave the Pac-12. The revenue is not that much different. Presidents would never do it based on a few million a year in sports revenue. I would be more likely to bet on the TV future of the Pac-12 than the Big 12.""

 

[PencilPusher 454]

On a similar tangent to the above, but a completely ludicrous idea.....

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/ucla-to-the-acc-bruins-mega-booster-reportedly-advising-ucla-against-re-upping-with-pac-12/

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 minutes ago, PencilPusher said:

On a similar tangent to the above, but a completely ludicrous idea.....

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/ucla-to-the-acc-bruins-mega-booster-reportedly-advising-ucla-against-re-upping-with-pac-12/

UCLA should join the English Premier League

['stache 22146]

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

From, like, a respectable Arizona fishwrap:

There's a lull in conference-realignment talk, but another round could be coming

Excerpt:

 

" taking two schools from the same state is not considered an expansion plus from a market share standpoint."
 

Jesus fuck, not this shit again. Doesn't cord cutting and streaming availability change this shit?

"Hey, these two schools have a long historical rivalry, both have strong loyal fan bases, the distance between schools is not far, the in-state rival game is the biggest thing in the state, and generations of this state's families have enjoyed the rivalry. Let's split them up because conference network subscriptions in a dying TV model."

Fuck. All. Of. This. Bullshit.

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

" taking two schools from the same state is not considered an expansion plus from a market share standpoint."
 

Jesus fuck, not this shit again. Doesn't cord cutting and streaming availability change this shit?

"Hey, these two schools have a long historical rivalry, both have strong loyal fan bases, the distance between schools is not far, the in-state rival game is the biggest thing in the state, and generations of this state's families have enjoyed the rivalry. Let's split them up because conference network subscriptions in a dying TV model."

Fuck. All. Of. This. Bullshit.

If you click the link to the article, this whole point comes off like some attempt at spin.

 

You get a paragraph where Stultz (the media marketing guy) says that you should really only expand if two schools add value.  Then you get a paragraph from the author of the article arguing that "two schools in the same market" nonsense.  Then in the very next paragraph, "one analyst" says that the Big 12 would be smart to target both of those schools together and they'd both be smart to listen. 

Take out the author's middle paragraph commentary and it reads like an argument for the Big 12 to target them both.

[utee94 16091]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

" taking two schools from the same state is not considered an expansion plus from a market share standpoint."
 

Jesus fuck, not this shit again. Doesn't cord cutting and streaming availability change this shit?

"Hey, these two schools have a long historical rivalry, both have strong loyal fan bases, the distance between schools is not far, the in-state rival game is the biggest thing in the state, and generations of this state's families have enjoyed the rivalry. Let's split them up because conference network subscriptions in a dying TV model."

Fuck. All. Of. This. Bullshit.

 

27 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

If you click the link to the article, this whole point comes off like some attempt at spin.

 

You get a paragraph where Stultz (the media marketing guy) says that you should really only expand if two schools add value.  Then you get a paragraph from the author of the article arguing that "two schools in the same market" nonsense.  Then in the very next paragraph, "one analyst" says that the Big 12 would be smart to target both of those schools together and they'd both be smart to listen. 

Take out the author's middle paragraph commentary and it reads like an argument for the Big 12 to target them both.

Not to mention the argument about "same media market" really only applies to conferences that have conference networks leveraging the cable subscriber model.  That doesn't apply to the B12.

 

 

[Beau Vine 55888]

2 hours ago, PencilPusher said:

On a similar tangent to the above, but a completely ludicrous idea.....

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/ucla-to-the-acc-bruins-mega-booster-reportedly-advising-ucla-against-re-upping-with-pac-12/

The only thing I could see happening with UCLA is the BIg 10 adding them, Cal, Stanford, and Washington as a western quadrant, but Delany's retiring soon, so that won't happen.

[camel at sea 589]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

The only thing I could see happening with UCLA is the BIg 10 adding them, Cal, Stanford, and Washington as a western quadrant, but Delany's retiring soon, so that won't happen.

I'd guess UCLA will end up doing whatever USC does.  The safe bet is always that nothing happens.  But since these discussions are fun, the two together would anchor a very good "Big 12 West" division.  Big 12 West:  USC, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Tech, TCU, OK State

If at some point WVU ever lands somewhere else, then the Pokes move east, ASU gets an invite, and the Big 12 West looks even more like the PAC South.  

We'd be at the current standard of 14 member schools.... so, not too big.  Travel distances within each division would be manageable.  We'd basically be a western U.S. version of the SEC in that respect.  This solves the Big 12's Tier 1 football, academic branding, and media/recruiting "footprint" issues.  It also improves the Tier 1 football, money, national exposure, and gametime issues for the incoming PAC schools.  USC could theoretically continue playing Stanford and Notre Dame OOC.  They're playing 11 P5 games almost every year already.  UCLA would have room on the OOC slate to play Cal.  We could even go full SEC and only play 8 conference games to make that even easier on everyone.

The PAC would basically be a pacific northwest conference at this point but it would still be a power conference.  They'd have enough good G5 back-fill options to get to 10, play a round robin, and still be paid well.

[notre dame joe 205]

17 hours ago, 'stache said:

Because every school in the conference plays it? I don’t get the question.

Navy plays D1 basketball? Or is it the same division?  I really don't know.

 

Anyway, the AAC was built as a football media market conference.   It sort of makes sense to have Memphis, UCF, and SMU visit each other once every 2 years.  But that logic doesn't apply to Olympic sports which would be better placed in regional conferences. 

 

again, the notion that one conference should sponsor every sport works for mega state universities.  It does not work with Big East sized colleges.

['stache 22146]

8 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Navy plays D1 basketball? Or is it the same division?  I really don't know.

 

Anyway, the AAC was built as a football media market conference.   It sort of makes sense to have Memphis, UCF, and SMU visit each other once every 2 years.  But that logic doesn't apply to Olympic sports which would be better placed in regional conferences. 

 

again, the notion that one conference should sponsor every sport works for mega state universities.  It does not work with Big East sized colleges.

Navy is the only football only member. Their other sports are D2 in the Patriot League.

[S11 16]

Navy is the only football only member. Their other sports are D2 in the Patriot League.

 

Got the right league but the Patriot League is D1-FCS. Has schools like Bucknell, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Colgate, and Boston U.

 

Army is in there too which is why the addition of the Knights might happen if there is interest from Army. Unlike an all-sports addition they don’t have to find somewhere to park non-football if either they or the AAC don’t like bringing those sports over.

[Machinator 32103]

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

13 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Navy plays D1 basketball?

[texifornia 59055]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:10 PM, 'stache said:

The obvious answer is for WSU to restart their football program. Some want it, others don't. Cost is the obvious barrier. I doubt even the new AAC deal would be enough to make the finances work on a new or revamped stadium and a full D-1 program in a pretty competitive higher end G5 football conference. 

http://footballscoop.com/news/wichita-state-president-adding-football-everybody-wants-no-one-wants-pay/

Honestly kind of surprised the Kochs haven't ponied up. They're rich as hell, support a ton of stuff in Wichita and the basketball arena is the Charles Koch Arena. Must not be football fans.

['stache 22146]

6 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Honestly kind of surprised the Kochs haven't ponied up. They're rich as hell, support a ton of stuff in Wichita and the basketball arena is the Charles Koch Arena. Must not be football fans.

They might have studied Tulsa. A small college in a mid-size city. Plenty of population to support it, but 90% of their fans are OU or OSU fans first, TU fans second, and they don't sell many football tickets.  There are a class of alums and administrators who would like to see the college drop football and invest more in improving academic standing.

Edited June 26, 2019 by 'stache

[Hurtlocker 2219]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:10 PM, 'stache said:

The obvious answer is for WSU to restart their football program. Some want it, others don't. Cost is the obvious barrier. I doubt even the new AAC deal would be enough to make the finances work on a new or revamped stadium and a full D-1 program in a pretty competitive higher end G5 football conference. 

http://footballscoop.com/news/wichita-state-president-adding-football-everybody-wants-no-one-wants-pay/

Or Wichita State joins the Big East too, giving them 12.

[Dnaguy 12712]

On 6/25/2019 at 2:28 PM, 'stache said:

" taking two schools from the same state is not considered an expansion plus from a market share standpoint."
 

Jesus fuck, not this shit again. Doesn't cord cutting and streaming availability change this shit?

"Hey, these two schools have a long historical rivalry, both have strong loyal fan bases, the distance between schools is not far, the in-state rival game is the biggest thing in the state, and generations of this state's families have enjoyed the rivalry. Let's split them up because conference network subscriptions in a dying TV model."

Fuck. All. Of. This. Bullshit.

Not to mention a fast growing population

[Machinator 32103]

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Texas to the AAC

[kopp0e 1135]

On 6/24/2019 at 3:07 PM, 'stache said:

They've played in as many BCS/NY6 football games as the blueblood aggy university.

I really did not know that (that's the opposite of "impressive")..! UConn to SEC it is then..! 

[kopp0e 1135]

Some potential real news (maybe) in the realignment front:

 

[SimonBolivar 11067]

On 6/26/2019 at 3:10 PM, 'stache said:

They might have studied Tulsa. A small college in a mid-size city. Plenty of population to support it, but 90% of their fans are OU or OSU fans first, TU fans second, and they don't sell many football tickets.  There are a class of alums and administrators who would like to see the college drop football and invest more in improving academic standing.

Not that comparable with Wichita State having 15K students to Tulsa's 3K. UMHB is bigger than Tulsa.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

4 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Not that comparable with Wichita State having 15K students to Tulsa's 3K. UMHB is bigger than Tulsa.

Dear lord, I don't think I ever realized how small they were.

['stache 22146]

I didn't realize WSU was that big. Maybe they could become a pretty good football draw. KSU is Wizardless and Leslie will improve KU, but I doubt he'll get them to Mangina levels, and he is pretty old.

[Longboard Horn 41386]

On 6/24/2019 at 1:21 PM, Machinator said:

 

Would love to see Army West Point in the AAC. They would drop the hammer and do well. Would most likely make the conference championship game. Jeff Monken has built a legit empire. That flex bone run game of theirs is dangerous and effective as hell.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1113]

14 hours ago, Longboard Horn said:

Would love to see Army West Point in the AAC. They would drop the hammer and do well. Would most likely make the conference championship game. Jeff Monken has built a legit empire. That flex bone run game of theirs is dangerous and effective as hell.

Hopefully it would go better than when they were in C-USA, which has many of the same schools as the current AAC.  They were 9-41 in conference play.

['stache 22146]

2 minutes ago, J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. said:

Hopefully it would go better than when they were in C-USA, which has many of the same schools as the current AAC.  They were 9-41 in conference play.

I've always wondered by Navy and Air Force have managed success in conferences but Army did not. Was it just a matter of they couldn't put the pieces together? Because they seem to have it together now. It would make sense for both Army and Navy to be football only in AAC. Maybe they could find another good non-football school to round out basketball at 12.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

/rant

I hate football or non-football only members

/endrant

[clapclapclap 9000]

23 hours ago, 'stache said:

I've always wondered by Navy and Air Force have managed success in conferences but Army did not. Was it just a matter of they couldn't put the pieces together? Because they seem to have it together now. It would make sense for both Army and Navy to be football only in AAC.  

How do you resolve Army-Navy becoming a conference game but played after the conference championship?  Hard to believe they'd be willing to move the game date.

[DFW Horn 6671]

 

['stache 22146]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

How do you resolve Army-Navy becoming a conference game but played after the conference championship?  Hard to believe they'd be willing to move the game date.

They have all the nukes, they can do whatever they damn well please. (realistically, they would each just have one less conference game and division winner is decided by winning percentage).

[oSuJeff97 3439]

And, from the ASU side, President Michael Crow has no interest in leaving the company of Stanford and other Pac-12 academic elites.

 

This kind of shit always cracks me up.

Do university presidents really believe that being in an athletic conference with a elite academic schools actually makes them elite, too?  You're ARIZONA FUCKING STATE.  People go there because there is a shit-ton of world-class trim, they let in anyone with a pulse, and Tempe is awesome.  End of story. 

Being in the Pac 12 doesn't put them in same academic neighborhood with Stanford any more than being in the Big 12 puts Oklahoma State in the same academic neighborhood as Texas.