Realignment talk not going away

[closetohumping 17776]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

I saw something that withdrawn schools don't have voting rights but that you technically haven't withdrawn because on paper your move is still 2025 and the by-laws require 2 years notice so you don't need to formally withdraw yet. Who fucking knows. I just hope we land in the PAC eventually and if not the new AAC+ is at least still pretty relevant in basketball.

To me it's ok for football too.  Not lip service.  

['stache 22115]

Just now, closetohumping said:

To me it's ok for football too.  Not lip service.  

A K-State fan did some analysis that the Big 8+4 was more competitive and had better ratings than the PAC and ACC during the last several years. I certainly think the level of play can keep up, but perception is reality, and it'll be paid less than half, because of that perception.

[TonyTexas 10682]

45 minutes ago, Lidig8r said:

Gentlemen, when aggy and Missery left the Big 12, they paid less than 1/2 of the exit fees.

Those 2 are worth less than 1/2 of UT and OU

[Tex-19 3009]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

A K-State fan did some analysis that the Big 8+4 was more competitive and had better ratings than the PAC and ACC during the last several years. I certainly think the level of play can keep up, but perception is reality, and it'll be paid less than half, because of that perception.

It'd actually be a solid conference top to bottom, the problem is that it doesn't (for now) have 1-2 flashy blue bloods to change the perception. Just need 1-2 teams to step up and contend for playoff spots.

My bold prediction? UH may just be the school to do that. Fertita is gonna pour money into that program and won't hesitate to "play the game"

[Nice Guy Eddie 13706]

If our help in setting up a future Big 12 leads to us leaving sooner/cheaper, sign me up. 

[SimonBolivar 11026]

10 minutes ago, 'stache said:

A K-State fan did some analysis that the Big 8+4 was more competitive and had better ratings than the PAC and ACC during the last several years. I certainly think the level of play can keep up, but perception is reality, and it'll be paid less than half, because of that perception.

As a fan it'll be a blast because without OU anyone will be able to win any year (except KU I guess). Money wise we're gonna suffer, but the fact that we are adding UCF, Cincy, and UH means that I'm guessing it got a good report from the TV providers instead of just sitting with BYU.

[Tex Long 4613]

35 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

It'd actually be a solid conference top to bottom, the problem is that it doesn't (for now) have 1-2 flashy blue bloods to change the perception. Just need 1-2 teams to step up and contend for playoff spots.

My bold prediction? UH may just be the school to do that. Fertita is gonna pour money into that program and won't hesitate to "play the game"

 

Maybe uh could use a new set of football coaches? Billy Napier might be ready to head west on I10 pretty soon

Edited September 3, 2021 by Tex Long

[camel at sea 589]

7 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

As a fan it'll be a blast because without OU anyone will be able to win any year (except KU I guess). Money wise we're gonna suffer, but the fact that we are adding UCF, Cincy, and UH means that I'm guessing it got a good report from the TV providers instead of just sitting with BYU.

As far as the money, I think the Big 12 probably ends up distributing somewhere in the 20-30M range.  If the AAC distributes $7M per, it means those three new Big 12 additions are probably worth double that number, each.  I also remember reading that the American was offered an additional $5M more, per school, if they would have signed a GOR.  Again, that reflects a lot more individual value for the AAC's breadwinners when they're locked in with a GOR.

The Big 12 is distributing about $40M per on 10 year old deal.  If the IR8 are worth half, then they're all worth $20M+.  An updated deal *should* reflect an increase in value for those member schools.  

I've been reading that BYU is valued more highly than every current member of the Big 12 other than Texas and Oklahoma.

 

I'd guess somewhere in the 20sM per school without a GOR.  30ishM per school if they're willing to sign a GOR.   

[gmr548 16681]

I would actually enjoy the fuck out of this division.
If there's gonna be some kind of zombie Big 12, I would enjoy keeping those long time, historic opponents on the schedule.  Farmageddon is a hell of a rivalry, ISU/OSU has been a total gut check the game the past decade (and the schools/fanbases are very similar) and KU is both a total cupcake and someone we've played annually forfuckingever.  I hate Baylor's guts (hate is a necessary component of college football) and we at least have history (and probably more culturally in common than either of us realize) with Tech.
Whatever.  I'm over this shit.  Give us playoff access and enough money to pay for coaches and I don't really care.  Get Amazon in here, and let's get weird. 
I'm still not convinced we don't all get carved up to the Pac and B1G in a few years and this is anything more than a stopgap to bleed OU/UT out, but if it isn't, this will be a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

For sure, the main reason I can get on board with the SEC for Texas is Arkansas, aggy, OU, and LSU on the schedule regularly/annually. I value the regional/historical aspect of the sport so I know where your coming from. The island of misfit toys division is the one that would be really odd. But I think they just go east/west

[gmr548 16681]

As a fan it'll be a blast because without OU anyone will be able to win any year (except KU I guess). Money wise we're gonna suffer, but the fact that we are adding UCF, Cincy, and UH means that I'm guessing it got a good report from the TV providers instead of just sitting with BYU.

Yeah, it could end up a weird but fun football league, kind of like what it was when Texas and OU were both relatively down in the early 2010s - OSU, KSU, Baylor, and TCU all getting titles or “shares” of titles. What kept the Big 12 so good competitively was the high level coaching, Snyder, Patterson, Gundy, Briles, Campbell, etc. (Briles is a garbage human being and I am glad he is gone, but he is a good football coach). If they can hold onto that they can remain competitive with the ACC and PAC in terms of overall quality of play and get a spot in a 12 team playoff regularly.

['stache 22115]

7 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

As far as the money, I think the Big 12 probably ends up distributing somewhere in the 20-30M range.  If the AAC distributes $7M per, it means those three new Big 12 additions are probably worth double that number, each.  I also remember reading that the American was offered an additional $5M more, per school, if they would have signed a GOR.  Again, that reflects a lot more individual value for the AAC's breadwinners when they're locked in with a GOR.

The Big 12 is distributing about $40M per on 10 year old deal.  If the IR8 are worth half, then they're all worth $20M+.  An updated deal *should* reflect an increase in value for those member schools.  

I've been reading that BYU is valued more highly than every current member of the Big 12 other than Texas and Oklahoma.

 

I'd guess somewhere in the 20sM per school without a GOR.  30ishM per school if they're willing to sign a GOR.   

They're not even close to being the "most valuable." This estimate is that they make $4.5 million per year with ESPN.  They are 48th in tv ratings, behind OSU (19th), TCU (24th), WVU (30th), Baylor (35th), Tech (38th), and Iowa State (46th). On the "value" list, BYU is 39th, behind OSU (31st), Tech (32nd), and West Virginia (37th). I never thought the "nationwide fan base" was anything other than a myth. 

https://lawlessrepublic.com/2017/09/21/byu-football-espn-contract-money/

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-are-the-most-valuable-in-conference-realignment-b8e840f42189

Edited September 3, 2021 by 'stache

[GTX Horn 1725]

54 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

It'd actually be a solid conference top to bottom, the problem is that it doesn't (for now) have 1-2 flashy blue bloods to change the perception. Just need 1-2 teams to step up and contend for playoff spots.

My bold prediction? UH may just be the school to do that. Fertita is gonna pour money into that program and won't hesitate to "play the game"

UH could stand to benefit from the move in a way that could allow them to leapfrog Texas Tech for a potential invite if the PAC tries to expand and add any Big 12 schools 5 years down the road.

[bullet 1626]

6 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

You’re probably right I likely just read the headline.

 

IIRC program was essentially designed to get money to tech and uh so nothing to brag on them for specifically.  I read the report a year or two ago and UTSA was the next closest, so I wouldn’t put them in the same category as UTEP, TX St, or UNT.

I think it was written to make it easy for Tech and Houston, but also to get UTD and UTA in.  So Tech + schools in Houston and Dallas.   But politically, they had to include lots of other schools.  It would have been easier if they could have just designated Tech, Houston, UTD and UTA.

[bullet 1626]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Incentive is ESPN could up your payouts if you add the Fab four contingent on you letting Texas and ou leave early with a reduced buyout.  160 mil/8 is only 20 million.  Look long term not just in the moment.

Incentive is to keep the payouts to 2025 while the R8 also get the UT and OU buyouts without having to run the risk of litigation.

[bullet 1626]

10 minutes ago, bullet said:

I think it was written to make it easy for Tech and Houston, but also to get UTD and UTA in.  So Tech + schools in Houston and Dallas.   But politically, they had to include lots of other schools.  It would have been easier if they could have just designated Tech, Houston, UTD and UTA.

The idea was that Houston needed more than Rice and DFW needed something.  It couldn't just be Austin and an east central Texas cowfield generating research and the related job spinoffs.

[closetohumping 17776]

2 minutes ago, bullet said:

Incentive is to keep the payouts to 2025 while the R8 also get the UT and OU buyouts without having to run the risk of litigation.

So basically, everything?  Ok, good luck with that.

[camel at sea 589]

24 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They're not even close to being the "most valuable." This estimate is that they make $4.5 million per year with ESPN.  They are 48th in tv ratings, behind OSU (19th), TCU (24th), WVU (30th), Baylor (35th), Tech (38th), and Iowa State (46th). On the "value" list, BYU is 39th, behind OSU (31st), Tech (32nd), and West Virginia (37th). I never thought the "nationwide fan base" was anything other than a myth. 

https://lawlessrepublic.com/2017/09/21/byu-football-espn-contract-money/

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-are-the-most-valuable-in-conference-realignment-b8e840f42189

 

Here's an SB national article on the AAC's current payout.  I'm not sure why you'd think the Big 12 would invite the member schools who are "not even close" to being the most valuable in that league.  Jut based on common sense, the only other factors for that "most valuable" moniker are Memphis and Navy.  

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/3/19/18273232/aac-television-deal-espn-conference-realignment

Quote

The new agreement is reportedly a 12 year deal, running from 2020-2021 through the 2031-32 academic year, is worth an average of $83.3 million a year.  That comes out to just short of $7 million a year per school.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by camel at sea

['stache 22115]

5 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

 

Here's an SB national article on the AAC's current payout.  I'm not sure why you'd think the Big 12 would invite the member schools who are "not even close" to being the most valuable in that league.  Jut based on common sense, the only other factors for that "most valuable" moniker are Memphis and Navy.  

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/3/19/18273232/aac-television-deal-espn-conference-realignment

 

Your comment was: "I've been reading that BYU is valued more highly than every current member of the Big 12 other than Texas and Oklahoma."

The numbers I posted dispute that. They're somewhere in the middle.

[bullet 1626]

2 hours ago, Shaggybevo said:

 

UTA recently achieved NRUF classification.  

UTSA is expected to achieve NRUF classification in 2022.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/19/ut-arlington-tier-one/

 

 

 

I see they just made it in the latest report.  https://reportcenter.highered.texas.gov/reports/legislative/national-research-university-fund-eligibility-2021/

"...Texas Tech University and University of Houston data are not included in the report, as both institutions met eligibility in Fiscal Year (FY) 2012 and began receiving distributions from the NRUF. Each institution received $16.3 million for the 2012-13 biennium, $17.9 million for the 2014-15 biennium, and $16.9 million for the 2016-17 biennium. The University of Texas at Dallas data are not included in the report, as the institution met eligibility in FY 2018 and also began receiving distributions from the NRUF. Each of the three institutions received $15.4 million for the 2018-19 biennium and $8.2 million in FY 2020.

• The University of Texas at Arlington reported restricted research expenditures above the threshold of $45 million in FY 2019 and 2020. In addition, for both fiscal years, the institution fulfilled the following four of six optional criteria required for NRUF eligibility: o Criterion 2: Doctor of Philosophy Degrees Awarded o Criterion 3: Freshman Class of High Academic Achievement o Criterion 4: Institutional Recognition of Research Capabilities and Scholarly Attainment o Criterion 5: High-Quality Faculty. The University of Texas at Arlington fulfilled a sufficient number of required criteria for two consecutive years and is eligible for fund distribution in FY 2021, pending a required audit by the State Auditor’s Office in FY 2021.

• The University of Texas at El Paso reported restricted research expenditures above the threshold of $45 million in FY 2019 and 2020, which is the mandatory requirement to vii receive distributions from NRUF. For both fiscal years, the institution fulfilled one of the required four optional criteria: o Criterion 4: Institutional Recognition of Research Capabilities and Scholarly Attainment.

• The University of Texas at San Antonio reached $56 million in restricted research expenditures in FY 2020. In addition, in FY 2020, the institution fulfilled three of the required four optional criteria: o Criterion 3: Freshman Class of High Academic Achievement (fulfilled in FY 2019 and 2020) o Criterion 4: Institutional Recognition of Research Capabilities and Scholarly Attainment (fulfilled in FY 2019 and 2020) o Criterion 5: High-Quality Faculty (fulfilled in FY 2020). The University of Texas at San Antonio seeks to reach the minimum of four required optional criteria by including Criterion 6, High-Quality Graduate Education, which it would fulfill by passing a comprehensive review of five doctoral programs. The institution will also seek to fulfill Criterion 5, High-Quality Faculty, for a second consecutive year by passing a comprehensive review of faculty in five doctoral programs in FY 2021...."

[LTbear 4209]

38 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They're not even close to being the "most valuable." This estimate is that they make $4.5 million per year with ESPN.  They are 48th in tv ratings, behind OSU (19th), TCU (24th), WVU (30th), Baylor (35th), Tech (38th), and Iowa State (46th). On the "value" list, BYU is 39th, behind OSU (31st), Tech (32nd), and West Virginia (37th). I never thought the "nationwide fan base" was anything other than a myth. 

To be fair, they often get shitty times and TV windows and half of every schedule is trash right now. 

[bullet 1626]

14 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

 

Here's an SB national article on the AAC's current payout.  I'm not sure why you'd think the Big 12 would invite the member schools who are "not even close" to being the most valuable in that league.  Jut based on common sense, the only other factors for that "most valuable" moniker are Memphis and Navy.  

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/3/19/18273232/aac-television-deal-espn-conference-realignment

 

In the first AAC deal, UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and Houston were the "Class A" schools, whose departure could end the contract.

They wrote a similar criteria into the 2nd contract.  Someone mentioned who the first class schools were, but I don't remember other than it was more than just Cincinnati, Temple and Houston and that UConn wasn't included as it was anticipated to leave.

 

[camel at sea 589]

14 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Your comment was: "I've been reading that BYU is valued more highly than every current member of the Big 12 other than Texas and Oklahoma."

The numbers I posted dispute that. They're somewhere in the middle.

 

['stache 22115]

8 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

 

This is a comparison of BYU against UH, UCF, and Cincy. I interpreted your comment as saying BYU was more valuable that Oklahoma State, Tech, etc., those being the "current members of the Big 12 other than OU and Texas."

[notre dame joe 202]

14 minutes ago, bullet said:

In the first AAC deal, UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and Houston were the "Class A" schools, whose departure could end the contract.

They wrote a similar criteria into the 2nd contract.  Someone mentioned who the first class schools were, but I don't remember other than it was more than just Cincinnati, Temple and Houston and that UConn wasn't included as it was anticipated to leave.

 

How did Temple get on that list?

 

They must have hired the guy who snuck BC through the ACC backdoor.

[bullet 1626]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

As far as the money, I think the Big 12 probably ends up distributing somewhere in the 20-30M range.  If the AAC distributes $7M per, it means those three new Big 12 additions are probably worth double that number, each.  I also remember reading that the American was offered an additional $5M more, per school, if they would have signed a GOR.  Again, that reflects a lot more individual value for the AAC's breadwinners when they're locked in with a GOR.

The Big 12 is distributing about $40M per on 10 year old deal.  If the IR8 are worth half, then they're all worth $20M+.  An updated deal *should* reflect an increase in value for those member schools.  

I've been reading that BYU is valued more highly than every current member of the Big 12 other than Texas and Oklahoma.

 

I'd guess somewhere in the 20sM per school without a GOR.  30ishM per school if they're willing to sign a GOR.   

The Big 12 distributed 38.8 in 2017-18 and 37.7 in 2018-19 (no Sugar Bowl).  About $9 million and $5 million (18-19) were CFP/Sugar Bowl money.  Something between $20 and $25 was TV money (Bowlsby was saying $28 million going forward).  The rest was basketball and miscellaneous.  Its that $20 to $25 to $28 million that will be reduced in the short run.

[camel at sea 589]

21 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This is a comparison of BYU against UH, UCF, and Cincy. I interpreted your comment as saying BYU was more valuable that Oklahoma State, Tech, etc., those being the "current members of the Big 12 other than OU and Texas."

BYU > IR8 has been implied in several places online since this the Big 12 expansion discussion started.  I've seen multiple people tweet that they're the only *additive* program out there - which obviously has an implication for BYU's relationship with the current members.  Since you're requesting proof, I'll see if I can find one of those guys touting "industry sources" who spell it out specifically.  In the interim, I know BYU draws more fans at the gate than every current Big 12 school, is the only one with a national fanbase, and is the only one with a color TV era national title.  And there's this:
 

 

[bullet 1626]

29 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

How did Temple get on that list?

 

They must have hired the guy who snuck BC through the ACC backdoor.

Basketball was a big factor in those contracts.

 

Football may be 75% of the P5 contracts, but that's probably not true with the G5.  The Big East with only basketball had a bigger contract than the initial AAC contract.

[camel at sea 589]

12 minutes ago, bullet said:

The Big 12 distributed 38.8 in 2017-18 and 37.7 in 2018-19 (no Sugar Bowl).  About $9 million and $5 million (18-19) were CFP/Sugar Bowl money.  Something between $20 and $25 was TV money (Bowlsby was saying $28 million going forward).  The rest was basketball and miscellaneous.  Its that $20 to $25 to $28 million that will be reduced in the short run.

Yeah.  There are other factors that go into conference distribution than just the TV deal.  It makes it hard to parse this in general terms (which is what I was trying to do for simplicity.)  The IR8 might be worth half of the TV deal, more than half of the NCAA tourney money, and we have a big question mark as to football post-season.  

As to the last, though, it appears that the individual NY6 bowl tie-ins, for conferences, are going away when the CFP expands.  You can't have a Big 12 tie in with the Sugar Bowl if the Sugar Bowl is always going to be a playoff bowl.  Conversely, if the major bowls are not part of the CFP, there might still be tie-ins, but they will not be worth nearly as much b/c the teamss playing in them will be much worse.  Either way, the Power 5 / Autonomous 5 are slated to get oversized cuts from the expanded CFP when that happens.  The estimates for that money are that it will be triple the value of the current post-season.  As a result, as long as the Big 12 remains at the power conference table, it's likely to see that post-season revenue stream increasing quite a bit.    

Edited September 3, 2021 by camel at sea

[thunderlounge 8318]

5 hours ago, closetohumping said:

2. We still have two votes I think?  Want us to play ball, let us leave.  

Once announced that we’re leaving, I don’t believe we’re allowed to vote on expansion matters. I could be remembering incorrectly, but makes sense. 

[closetohumping 17776]

6 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Once announced that we’re leaving, I don’t believe we’re allowed to vote on expansion matters. I could be remembering incorrectly, but makes sense. 

Fair enough.  We will see how this plays out.  I think, IF they're adding four schools immediately that changes everything.  And I'm pretty sure espn has a say in the adds.

[Hiphopopotamos 21158]

Just now, closetohumping said:

Fair enough.  We will see how this plays out.  I think, IF they're adding four schools immediately that changes everything.  And I'm pretty sure espn has a say in the adds.

A few posters corrected me earlier - we haven't actually submitted our formal 'Withdrawal' so Texas and OU still have their votes.  Makes sense - they wouldn't give that up until they negotiate their departure.

[closetohumping 17776]

9 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

A few posters corrected me earlier - we haven't actually submitted our formal 'Withdrawal' so Texas and OU still have their votes.  Makes sense - they wouldn't give that up until they negotiate their departure.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5477]

ESPN reporting that adding 4 schools to the Left-Behind 8 is all but done.

Spoiler

BYU, Houston, UCF and Cincinnati are planning to submit applications next week to join the Big 12, sources confirmed to ESPN on Friday.

The schools could be approved for admission as early as a Sept. 10 meeting of Big 12 presidents, according to Sports Illustrated, which first reported the story.

"Things are moving very quickly," one source told ESPN on Friday. "There's obvious momentum to get votes to the board."

American Athletic Conference bylaws require schools to give a 27-month notice before they leave and pay a $10 million buyout fee. In that scenario, joining by the 2023 season would be a long shot, but an earlier exit and higher buyout could be negotiated. The most realistic timeline, sources said, is 2024.

Sources in the American told ESPN that Houston, UCF and Cincinnati haven't officially informed the conference of their intent to leave.

ESPN reported Thursday that officials from the four schools had informally contacted the Big 12 about membership.

"All of those schools reached out to us," a Big 12 source with knowledge of the discussions said. "It wasn't like we poached them. They all made the initial communication."

The Big 12 presidents are expected to meet next week, but a conference source said it might be only eight presidents for their regularly scheduled meeting. A vote on new membership requires the presence of the full board, a source said, which still includes Oklahoma and Texas. The Big 12 is expected to have the eight of 10 votes needed to officially accept the schools into the conference.

Oklahoma and Texas have said they will honor their grant-of-rights agreement before joining the SEC on July 1, 2025. If that holds true, it's possible the Big 12 operates as a 14-team conference for a year, with the new members competing alongside the outgoing conference co-founders. It's also possible BYU, an FBS independent, joins the Big 12 before the American schools.

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby declined comment Friday.

 

[Auto Driller 2563]

This is probably the best result for all involved. The conference will still be somewhat competitive in football and will be strong in other sports.

[Tex-19 3009]

1 minute ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

ESPN reporting that adding 4 schools to the Left-Behind 8 is all but done.

  Hide contents

The Big 12 presidents are expected to meet next week, but a conference source said it might be only eight presidents for their regularly scheduled meeting. A vote on new membership requires the presence of the full board, a source said, which still includes Oklahoma and Texas. The Big 12 is expected to have the eight of 10 votes needed to officially accept the schools into the conference.

 

This part is interesting. So we can basically filibuster this thing as leverage to reduce our buyout?

[totallynotabuttpirate 5477]

1 minute ago, Tex-19 said:

This part is interesting. So we can basically filibuster this thing as leverage to reduce our buyout?

Yep, this was always going to come down to a settlement agreement. 

[JesusSweatDuck 18045]

I haven't been following that closely, but does this reduce or eliminate the need for UT to pay a buy out?

[billfromlaketravis 11784]

I think ‘stache and our Iowa State friends should keep their chins up. Bedlam will be preserved. The Iowa game isn’t going anywhere. When the playoff expands to 12, the Irate 8 almost certainly will get 1 of the 6 auto bids. Maybe Tech gets in a favorable division and has an easier path to the championship game. 
 

I would hope the SEC, AAC, Big 12 and the ACC defectors push hard for playoff expansion by 2023. F*** The Alliance trying to slow It down. I’m sick of watching Bama - Clemson every year in the CFB. 

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

23 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

The Big 12 presidents are expected to meet next week, but a conference source said it might be only eight presidents for their regularly scheduled meeting. A vote on new membership requires the presence of the full board, a source said, which still includes Oklahoma and Texas. The Big 12 is expected to have the eight of 10 votes needed to officially accept the schools into the conference.

Oklahoma and Texas have said they will honor their grant-of-rights agreement before joining the SEC on July 1, 2025. If that holds true, it's possible the Big 12 operates as a 14-team conference for a year, with the new members competing alongside the outgoing conference co-founders. It's also possible BYU, an FBS independent, joins the Big 12 before the American schools.

So they can’t vote if our president and Ou president doesn’t show?

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

22 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

This is probably the best result for all involved. The conference will still be somewhat competitive in football and will be strong in other sports.

We’re not going to be in the conference after this year

[Tex-19 3009]

19 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Yep, this was always going to come down to a settlement agreement. 

I've never understood what leverage we have for a negotiation. What does Big 12 gain by letting us leave with a lower buyout?

Plus, if we leave does that kill the current B12 TV contract? If so, double reason for them to stand firm and no real benefit to letting us go bc the replacement contract would be way lower. 

[Yuk 1612]

3 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

I've never understood what leverage we have for a negotiation. What does Big 12 gain by letting us leave with a lower buyout?

Plus, if we leave does that kill the current B12 TV contract? If so, double reason for them to stand firm and no real benefit to letting us go bc the replacement contract would be way lower. 

Actually paying it? Texas and OU have sovereign immunity. The legislature would have to waive it.

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

6 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

I've never understood what leverage we have for a negotiation. What does Big 12 gain by letting us leave with a lower buyout?

Plus, if we leave does that kill the current B12 TV contract? If so, double reason for them to stand firm and no real benefit to letting us go bc the replacement contract would be way lower. 

We negotiate that they throw the 18 month rule out for us to leave sooner, still pay the full 80 mill buyout imo or a slight reduction. If this drags to 2025 then that hurts the big 12 more 

Edited September 3, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Pato del Muerto 53330]

3 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

How did Temple get on that list?

 

They must have hired the guy who snuck BC through the ACC backdoor.

Bill cosby forced them into it

[Tex-19 3009]

1 minute ago, Yuk said:

Actually paying it? Texas and OU have sovereign immunity. The legislature would have to waive it.

What do you mean by sovereign immunity as it relates to a Big 12 buyout? 

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

We negotiate that they throw the 18 month rule out for us to leave sooner, still pay the full 80 mill buyout imo or a slight reduction. If this drags to 2025 then that hurts the big 12 more 

But why does dragging to 2025 hurt them from a financial perspective? Zero buyout if we leave then?

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

2 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

What do you mean by sovereign immunity as it relates to a Big 12 buyout? 

But why does dragging to 2025 hurt them from a financial perspective? Zero buyout if we leave then?

That and the big 12 tv contract is up so trying to negotiate that contract with maybe just byu starting that season because AAC 20 month rule. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Genghis 637]

2 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

What do you mean by sovereign immunity as it relates to a Big 12 buyout? 

But why does dragging to 2025 hurt them from a financial perspective? Zero buyout if we leave then?

With sovereign immunity - it's that the state can't do wrong and that entering into a contract does not automatically waive sovereign immunity. Most other states have waived this for contract disputes but Texas has not. When Leach was fired, he tried to sue TTU and ran up against that you can't sue the state for damages related to breach of contract. He tried to appeal up to the Texas Supreme Court and they didn't hear the case. When A&M left and Baylor threatened to sue, it was widely thought based on the the Leach/Tech case that they would not be able to get damages from A&M for breach. 

The threat is then that Texas could tell the Big 12, "we're out tomorrow and we ain't paying shit" and be in obvious breach of contract but the Big 12 nor any schools could be able to sue them for damages as they could claim sovereign immunity. 

And yes, if they say we're leaving but only in 2025 when the grant of rights ends then there is no buyout as there is no contract to buyout from and no media rights to forfeit for the next 2 years.

[Tex-19 3009]

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That and the big 12 tv contract is up so trying to negotiate that contract with maybe just byu starting that season because AAC 20 month rule. 

First part makes sense although this new article below is throwing me off. I didn't think this was the case. Second part depends on whether we can actually block the new members. If not, those 4 schools would join before 2025 regardless of what we do so doesn't change the negotiations. Honestly, not sure it'd materially change the negotiations anyway if TV people know those 4 are coming in a year.

How the four new additions impact Texas and Oklahoma’s situation remains murky and may depend on the discretion of Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, who could strike a compromise at any time. The two schools are contractually bonded to the conference at least through the 2024 season by way of the league’s grant-of-rights agreement. Breaking that agreement early would mean owing the Big 12 large sums of money, potentially upwards of $100 million for each year remaining on the deal.

Separately, the two programs owe an exit penalty as part of a long-term agreement that conference members established several years ago. The exit fee is two years’ worth of gross revenue, which is expected to be around $80 million.

https://www.si.com/college/2021/09/03/big-12-expansion-byu-houston-ucf-cincinnati

 

[Gidnik 3475]

 

[AUS-97HORN 11991]

fun thought...  there is really nothing stopping us to just tell the Big 12 to sue us as we leave, put it in litigation for 8 years and see if we can outlast the big 12 as an entity.    and if not,   negotiate a smaller payout when we are making $50m a year in Tv rights 

Edited September 4, 2021 by AUS-97HORN