Realignment talk not going away

[ABSR 5289]

43 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Media rights are almost always exclusive. The SEC can't buy something you don't own. Two entities cannot own the same media rights unless this is the one media contract in history that isn't exclusive.

Texas' media rights are theirs.  In the GOR with the Big 12 they "granted" those rights.  Your position is that Texas can not make the case to rescind that grant...but they can.  Contractually they may have penalties or contractually they may not even be technically allowed to do this...but they can.  Entities and people break, end, breach contracts all the time and that Entity/person will then defend their right to do so.

So Texas notifies Big 12 that they are rescinding the Grant of TV rights.  From Texas' perspective they have done so and then they grant those rights to the SEC where Texas then plays all sports and gets paid.

The Big 12 can press for GOR damages, which we have discussed will likely be $0 as ESPN/FOX traditionally don't lower conference payouts on existing contracts when teams leave. 

In a courtroom, and per the contract, the Big 12 may have a good case.  Not to keep the GOR rights (no one would force Texas to play Big 12 games), but to sue/press for financial compensation.  However, if it gets to a courtroom and a negotiated settlement can't be reached, then Texas can drop sovereign immunity and even if they are technically in a losing legal position, the Big 12 could be judged to have no standing.

So once cooler and smarter (Not Bowlesby or scorned fans) heads prevail they will work out a settlement.

[bullet 1596]

I'm not good at this.  What we really need is a red and blue cougar finally walking through the window---and seeing another window.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21784]

The ESPN would certainly have the right to broadcast any SEC conference game that UT played in since they would own the rights to UT's SEC opponent.  ESPN couldn't bifurcate the game and only broadcast UT's opponent.  

[Hurtlocker 2208]

1 minute ago, ABSR said:

Texas' media rights are theirs.  In the GOR with the Big 12 they "granted" those rights.  Your position is that Texas can not make the case to rescind that grant...but they can.  Contractually they may have penalties or contractually they may not even be technically allowed to do this...but they can.  Entities and people break, end, breach contracts all the time and that Entity/person will then defend their right to do so.

So Texas notifies Big 12 that they are rescinding the Grant of TV rights.  From Texas' perspective they have done so and then they grant those rights to the SEC where Texas then plays all sports and gets paid.

The Big 12 can press for GOR damages, which we have discussed will likely be $0 as ESPN/FOX traditionally don't lower conference payouts on existing contracts when teams leave. 

In a courtroom, and per the contract, the Big 12 may have a good case.  Not to keep the GOR rights (no one would force Texas to play Big 12 games), but to sue/press for financial compensation.  However, if it gets to a courtroom and a negotiated settlement can't be reached, then Texas can drop sovereign immunity and even if they are technically in a losing legal position, the Big 12 could be judged to have no standing.

So once cooler and smarter (Not Bowlesby or scorned fans) heads prevail they will work out a settlement.

There is zero chance that Disney would participate in this.   Their entire business, not just in sports, is based on locking up grants of rights, they're not going to act to weaken them.

[bullet 1596]

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/article254134963.html

Didn't see the date in the official release, but this article says 2023 is in there..

 

"...BYU has already issued a press release confirming the news.

All four schools will remain in their current conferences for the next two seasons and then begin competing in the Big 12 at the start of the 2023-24 athletic year, according to the release...."

[bullet 1596]

Funny to hear the Baylor, TCU and Tech fans diss UH.  During its time in the SWC, UH was behind only aggy and Texas in football titles and pig and Texas in basketball (and probably had more final 4s than anyone-maybe more than everyone else combined).

UH had more football titles than Baylor, TCU and Tech combined.  Throw in SMU and Rice and they were still ahead.

[YouLoveMyPenises 79]

Here's a dumb ass non lawyer question. 

We watch the same stupid commercials all day on Saturday. Are these sold per network, or per game, or per conference?

A. Is there just a flat rate for ABC games, a lesser one for ESPN, less for ESPN U, etc.?

B. Or are individual games sold at rates depending on the matchup?

C. Or are certain conferences sold at higher values?

I'm assuming these ad buys are in place before the season.

[Pancho 44533]

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

5 minutes ago, bullet said:

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/article254134963.html

Didn't see the date in the official release, but this article says 2023 is in there..

 

"...BYU has already issued a press release confirming the news.

All four schools will remain in their current conferences for the next two seasons and then begin competing in the Big 12 at the start of the 2023-24 athletic year, according to the release...."

 

 

 

[Bash Riprock 1695]

Tech is the youngest school in the current Big 12. Not even a 100 years old.

Now its the 3rd youngest school behind UH and UCF.

[Vertigo 20272]

52 minutes ago, 'stache said:

You want me to explain the bona fide purchaser rule to you on a message board? No thanks. Believe me or don't.

Get a room you two.. 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Vertigo

[Nueces River Rat 5530]

1 hour ago, Longboard Horn said:

 

LMAO!    West Virginia fans throwing shade...   Well done! 

[Nueces River Rat 5530]

2 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

 

 

 

[utee94 15746]

1 minute ago, Nueces River Rat said:

No kidding.  They're not in "wait and see mode" at all, regarding the timeline.  Just the $ amount.

[Nueces River Rat 5530]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

No kidding.  They're not in "wait and see mode" at all, regarding the timeline.  Just the $ amount.

Yep...  I'd say by at least by late October in not sooner we (and OuSux)  will make it official.  Gives everyone time to adjust schedules, etc.   Which is going to be a long thread on this board when it occurs.

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

2 minutes ago, YouLoveMyPenises said:

Here's a dumb ass non lawyer question. 

We watch the same stupid commercials all day on Saturday. Are these sold per network, or per game, or per conference?

A. Is there just a flat rate for ABC games, a lesser one for ESPN, less for ESPN U, etc.?

B. Or are individual games sold at rates depending on the matchup?

C. Or are certain conferences sold at higher values?

I'm assuming these ad buys are in place before the season.

There are a few different ways they're sold - very basically:

1) Long term deals - these are directly with the channels and are multi-year "sponsorship" deals.   Think Home Depot or Chic-fil-a.   These are negotiated with the network and account for about 50-60% of the ad inventory on ESPN.

2) Yearly "scatter" deals - they'll sell them yearly like season tickets.   You can't just buy the top games, you also need to spread your ads out over various other events, outside of CFB

3) local ads - if you notice when you watch the game, there are blocks where car dealerships and local chains show up.   These are sold by the local/regional carrier, like Comcast or an over the air station.   (side note, this is also how carriage is determined on how much Comcast pays to carry ESPN, its considered sharing the local revenue)

Most of these ads are calculated on expected reach and frequency of various demographics and are sold in flights of around 13 weeks, outside longer term deals.   All of this money goes to the distributers, e.g. Disney, Fox, Comcast, etc., who then pays the conferences for their inventory.    The catch here is everyone wants as much guaranteed money as possible, so the conferences take long term deals at set amounts, forgoing the wins and losses of big games or shit games.   Those are all sort of blended into their agreement.   And, from a carrier side, they sell as much long term as they can.   I don't think you could just buy one spot on a big game if you wanted to.   You'd be buying something like 100M views at $X CPM, and it would be spread out over several weeks.

 

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

 

[GreenspointTexas 9568]

1 minute ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Lmao

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lmao

Sure - if you ignore the decade of ineptitude - Bowlsby has done great!

[Vertigo 20272]

Could the argument now be made that we would only need to buy out the delta between the value of the conference with the new schools entering, and only for the next season?

['stache 21778]

37 minutes ago, ABSR said:

Texas' media rights are theirs.  In the GOR with the Big 12 they "granted" those rights.  Your position is that Texas can not make the case to rescind that grant...but they can.  Contractually they may have penalties or contractually they may not even be technically allowed to do this...but they can.  Entities and people break, end, breach contracts all the time and that Entity/person will then defend their right to do so.

So Texas notifies Big 12 that they are rescinding the Grant of TV rights.  From Texas' perspective they have done so and then they grant those rights to the SEC where Texas then plays all sports and gets paid.

The Big 12 can press for GOR damages, which we have discussed will likely be $0 as ESPN/FOX traditionally don't lower conference payouts on existing contracts when teams leave. 

In a courtroom, and per the contract, the Big 12 may have a good case.  Not to keep the GOR rights (no one would force Texas to play Big 12 games), but to sue/press for financial compensation.  However, if it gets to a courtroom and a negotiated settlement can't be reached, then Texas can drop sovereign immunity and even if they are technically in a losing legal position, the Big 12 could be judged to have no standing.

So once cooler and smarter (Not Bowlesby or scorned fans) heads prevail they will work out a settlement.

"I DECLARE RECISSION!"

Good luck with that. You're right, this stuff happens all the time. The business people and lawyers work it out. That's what'll happen here. I was responding to the "lets just do what we want" crowd. Do the business and legal stuff first and we'll see ya later.

Edited September 10, 2021 by 'stache

[Hurtlocker 2208]

Just now, Vertigo said:

Could the argument now be made that we would only need to buy out the delta between the value of the conference with the new schools entering, and only for the next season?

Possibly, but I'm guessing the buyout is funding this expansion.   It ads about $6-7m per year for 12 schools prior to the next contract, which is nearly identical to what you lose spreading the pie 12 ways instead of 10.

[Skipper 6106]

36 minutes ago, ABSR said:

 

So Texas notifies Big 12 that they are rescinding the Grant of TV rights.  From Texas' perspective they have done so and then they grant those rights to the SEC where Texas then plays all sports and gets paid.

 

One would think that assuming that Big 12 networks don't increase payouts pro rata with adding 4 new schools (why in the world would they, note they are no longer contractually obligated to negotiated in the last round of network negotiations), that TX-OU will take the position that the IR8 unilaterally changed the benefit of the bargain from the GOR to their detriment.  Would need to review the language but seems plausible.  By adding 4 schools the payouts owed to TX-OU from the conference will be reduced as soon as the additional teams play a conference game.

[Nueces River Rat 5530]

11 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

 

This Tech guy is happy for Bowlsby....   

[Chuckie Finster 22607]

I guess it gets clicks, and it’s better than the conference dissolving, but genuinely a bit confused at all of the positive press for the reformation of the Big East, circa 2008.

[BurntOrange&White 39707]

Sounds like we voted yes in good faith to ease our exodus and buyouts/18month stipulation 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

One would think that assuming that Big 12 networks don't increase payouts pro rata with adding 4 new schools (why in the world would they, note they are no longer contractually obligated to negotiated in the last round of network negotiations), that TX-OU will take the position that the IR8 unilaterally changed the benefit of the bargain from the GOR to their detriment.  Would need to review the language but seems plausible.  By adding 4 schools the payouts owed to TX-OU from the conference will be reduced as soon as the additional teams play a conference game.

['stache 21778]

7 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I guess it gets clicks, and it’s better than the conference dissolving, but genuinely a bit confused at all of the positive press for the reformation of the Big East, circa 2008.

What are they supposed to do? There are some very good metrics to believe that this new conference is better competitively than the PAC and ACC, but we all know the perception. OSU isn't going to be posting to social media "Well guys, we're fucked, lets make the most of it."

[Skipper 6106]

4 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Seems like at a minimum the "Buyout Amount" will be significantly reduced for 2024 and 2025 assuming the almost certain decrease in revenue once 4 schools are added.  I still think the end game a further reduced buyout by some form of scheduling agreement involving Texas and OU with the IR8.   The new Big 12 will be desperate for guaranteed Power 5 non-conference opponents after the Alliance.  Maybe Sankey can throw them a bone from other SEC schools as well.

[utee94 15746]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What are they supposed to do? There are some very good metrics to believe that this new conference is better competitively than the PAC and ACC, but we all know the perception. OSU isn't going to be posting to social media "Well guys, we're fucked, lets make the most of it."

Yes for sure.  The remaining 8 and new 4 are making the best of it.

I think it'll be a very competitive conference, and fun to watch.  Its problem will actually be that it's TOO competitive, relative to its perception.  That's been true of the B12 for many years, actually.  In most years the B12 is fighting it out for second-best conference.  It's clearly better than the PAC, and it's also clearly better than the ACC minus Clemson.  And it's sometimes better than the B1G.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by utee94

[BurntOrange&White 39707]

I think down the line they’ll add Boise St and Memphis 
 

Further down I think SMU and UCONN

Edited September 10, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Mittens 8181]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

CUSA is just higher on the pecking order.  Nobody is leaving CUSA for the Sun Belt short of a trade of teams.  The complaints in CUSA are mostly coming from CUSA's mistakes-Old Dominion and Charlotte.  They should have never invited startup programs.  They should have taken Arkansas St. and Louisiana and effectively killed off the Sun Belt.  Instead, the Sun Belt keeps bringing up FCS programs to compete for recruits, weakening both conferences.  They've brought up Coastal Carolina, Appalachian St., Georgia Southern and Georgia State since the last round.  And Texas St. and South Alabama only moved up in 2012.  The Sun Belt would have been left with UL Monroe, Troy, South Alabama, and 3 members pulled from the WAC:  Texas St., Idaho and NMSU.

AppSt is 70-20 since joining the SBC.  4 10+ win seasons, including 13-1 and finishing the season ranked 19 in 2018 (and two 9 win seasons).  6 straight bowl wins.  Since joining the conference, they have 5 titles and a runner up.  Easily the best team in the conference since they've joined.

GA Southern won the SBC in their 1st year (AppSt finished 2nd), has a 10 win season and is 3-1 in bowl games.  Probably tied w/ ULL for 2nd best team in the conference since joining.

Coastal went 11-1 last year, beat #8 BYU in arguably the best game of the year, finished ranked 14 and are currently 17.  Never mind winning the CWS too.

Those 3 programs have been huge for elevating the conference the past couple of years, so the idea that they weakened it are phenomenally misguided.

FWIW - the SBC teams aren't typically fighting one another for recruits, they are fighting the other G5 and lower P5 teams in their immediate region.  TXST and Troy aren't going head to head for a DE, and GASO isn't going head to head w/ ULM for a QB.  

[Chuckie Finster 22607]

What are they supposed to do? There are some very good metrics to believe that this new conference is better competitively than the PAC and ACC, but we all know the perception. OSU isn't going to be posting to social media "Well guys, we're fucked, lets make the most of it."

Sorry, wasn’t clear. Obviously, the individual schools should be happy. Was talking more about the same national writers that will be dogging this conference’s strength of schedule in a few years.

[BurntOrange&White 39707]

Saw this response to Bohls, thoughts?

 

 

 

[bullet 1596]

48 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

So did they vote yes or abstain?

[Stinkpalm 684]

29 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

How does he miss the open goal opportunity that was right in front of him?

”Today is a big win for the conference from where it was six weeks ago. BYU Is a big national draw that will open new time slots. UCF and Cincinnati could compete for conference championships from Day 1. Houston.”

[Hurtlocker 2208]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seems like at a minimum the "Buyout Amount" will be significantly reduced for 2024 and 2025 assuming the almost certain decrease in revenue once 4 schools are added.  I still think the end game a further reduced buyout by some form of scheduling agreement involving Texas and OU with the IR8.   The new Big 12 will be desperate for guaranteed Power 5 non-conference opponents after the Alliance.  Maybe Sankey can throw them a bone from other SEC schools as well.

Yeah I think this is where it will end up.   If the Big 12 has Pac/ACC money, a seat at the table and, perhaps, a scheduling agreement with the SEC to help pay for it, then there will likely be a move without much financial fanfare.   

The Big 12 does have leverage, until 2025, then they have none.   So gaining a long term deal now that provides security and relevancy in the new landscape, while ESPN wants Texas/OU for its new SEC Tier 1 deal around 2023, is the right play.   

[bullet 1596]

6 minutes ago, Mittens said:

AppSt is 70-20 since joining the SBC.  4 10+ win seasons, including 13-1 and finishing the season ranked 19 in 2018 (and two 9 win seasons).  6 straight bowl wins.  Since joining the conference, they have 5 titles and a runner up.  Easily the best team in the conference since they've joined.

GA Southern won the SBC in their 1st year (AppSt finished 2nd), has a 10 win season and is 3-1 in bowl games.  Probably tied w/ ULL for 2nd best team in the conference since joining.

Coastal went 11-1 last year, beat #8 BYU in arguably the best game of the year, finished ranked 14 and are currently 17.  Never mind winning the CWS too.

Those 3 programs have been huge for elevating the conference the past couple of years, so the idea that they weakened it are phenomenally misguided.

FWIW - the SBC teams aren't typically fighting one another for recruits, they are fighting the other G5 and lower P5 teams in their immediate region.  TXST and Troy aren't going head to head for a DE, and GASO isn't going head to head w/ ULM for a QB.  

They've weakened everybody else in the SB and CUSA.

[Mittens 8181]

2 minutes ago, bullet said:

They've weakened everybody else in the SB and CUSA.

Their job is to win.  They are doing their job, and they've done it pretty damn well.  Without them, the SunBelt is the worst G5.  With them, the best.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Mittens

[TKthunder2 4981]

Nvm fuck it I don’t care lol 

Edited September 10, 2021 by TKthunder2

[Hellraiser97 180]

How does the SEC broadcast Texas games if someone else owns the media rights? The network that broadcasts the games without owning the rights is the one who would be sued. Media rights are a big deal for networks, they aren't going to just do it to make you happy.

Do you really think the Big 12, that desperately needs the best TV it can get for the future, most likely from ESPN, is going to sue ESPN? Even if they do, it will never go to court. It will simply be bargaining power for negotiations to settle everything.

We may play in the Big 12 in 2022, there's basically zero chance now that we are playing in 2023 or that Texas and OU are going to pay $80m each.

['stache 21778]

1 minute ago, Hellraiser97 said:

Do you really think the Big 12, that desperately needs the best TV it can get for the future, most likely from ESPN, is going to sue ESPN? Even if they do, it will never go to court. It will simply be bargaining power for negotiations to settle everything.

We may play in the Big 12 in 2022, there's basically zero chance now that we are playing in 2023 or that Texas and OU are going to pay $80m each.
 

It's never going to get to that. Its set up to lead to negotiated buyouts. Do you really think ESPN would broadcast a game to which it does not own the rights? That just doesn't happen. A buyout will be negotiated.

[UncleBuck 6448]

Bohls needs to retire holy hell.

[Jasper_Jester 356]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

It's never going to get to that. Its set up to lead to negotiated buyouts. Do you really think ESPN would broadcast a game to which it does not own the rights? That just doesn't happen. A buyout will be negotiated.

Yeah, you are right, ESPN would never broadcast Texas A&M at Texas or Alabama at Texas or Florida at Oklahoma...Because they hate money.

 

If it came to that, they would broadcast all the games and wish us luck in court. Just like Texas let Joe Wickline do shitty coaching even though he breached his contract with OSU. 

['stache 21778]

9 minutes ago, Jasper_Jester said:

Yeah, you are right, ESPN would never broadcast Texas A&M at Texas or Alabama at Texas or Florida at Oklahoma...Because they hate money.

 

If it came to that, they would broadcast all the games and wish us luck in court. Just like Texas let Joe Wickline do shitty coaching even though he breached his contract with OSU. 

Geez. They will get a hold of the rights within a year or two and broadcast the games. You won't be joining the SEC until tht issue is resolved, and it will be soon. I just can't comprehend why you guys are trying so hard to find a way around a contract buy-out.

[Huckleberry 32710]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Geez. They will get a hold of the rights within a year or two and broadcast the games. You won't be joining the SEC until tht issue is resolved, and it will be soon. I just can't comprehend why you guys are trying so hard to find a way around a contract buy-out.

Nobody is finding a way around it, dude. You posted for nearly a full page that ESPN would be in breach of Texas's contract with the Big 12. That's the only thing people were (very justifiably) giving you shit for.

Everyone has said the entire time that it would be negotiated.

[Gidnik 3251]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Geez. They will get a hold of the rights within a year or two and broadcast the games. You won't be joining the SEC until tht issue is resolved, and it will be soon. I just can't comprehend why you guys are trying so hard to find a way around a contract buy-out.

because thats what everyone fucking does.  Why do you think that any time there are contracts like this people do everything possible to find an out? 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Gidnik

['stache 21778]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Nobody is finding a way around it, dude. You posted for nearly a full page that ESPN would be in breach of Texas's contract with the Big 12. That's the only thing people were (very justifiably) giving you shit for.

Everyone has said the entire time that it would be negotiated.

If a network broadcasts a game without owning the rights, there are a ton of problems even beyond contract law. That's why it will need to be negotiated and bought out before a move is practical.

[n64ra 1078]

Now that Big 12 expansion is official, when do the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and Pac-12 push to change Power 5 to Power 4 (and thus Group of 5 to Group of 6)?

Edited September 10, 2021 by n64ra

['stache 21778]

12 minutes ago, n64ra said:

Now that Big 12 expansion is official, when do the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and Pac-12 push to change Power 5 to Power 4 (and thus Group of 5 to Group of 6)?

I don't think they will, at least not initially, and within a few years I think the conference will be better competitively than the PAC and non-Clemson ACC.