Realignment talk not going away

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

41 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

wouldn't aggy protest this?  

What can they really do about it? Not in the universe of message board bullshit like "you have to have a private school in your conference so you can do stuff without telling anyone" or "Ann Richards kept Texas out of the Pac-10 in the early 90s so Baylor could go to the Big 12 with them". I mean in the literal real-world sense, what is Texas A&M going to do if the rest of the SEC wants the University of Houston? 

[hiphopfroggy 121]

12 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

What can they really do about it? Not in the universe of message board bullshit like "you have to have a private school in your conference so you can do stuff without telling anyone" or "Ann Richards kept Texas out of the Pac-10 in the early 90s so Baylor could go to the Big 12 with them". I mean in the literal real-world sense, what is Texas A&M going to do if the rest of the SEC wants the University of Houston? 

Yea, the SEC is chomping at the bit to get UH but they just can't seem to pry them away from the AAC.

 

Big16

West div

Washington
Oregon
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Arizona
Arizona St

Central div

UT
OU
OK St
TT
TCU
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St




B1G

B1G West 

Wisconsin
Iowa
Utah
Nebraska
Minnesota
Colorado 
Illinois 
Northwestern


B1G East

Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St
Penn St
Indiana
Purdue
Maryland
Rutgers




WVU to ACC
 

Edited March 2, 2020 by hiphopfroggy

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

22 minutes ago, hiphopfroggy said:

Yea, the SEC is chomping at the bit to get UH

That wasn't even close to the point. The SEC is not chomping at the bit to get any fucking body, but in the hypothetical event they change their mind and start looking for members # 15 and 16, once they exhaust consideration of every school they'd actually like to have in the conference and get to the Dollar Store programs, they're more likely to pursue Houston than TCU. 

[hiphopfroggy 121]

4 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That wasn't even close to the point. The SEC is not chomping at the bit to get any fucking body, but in the hypothetical event they change their mind and start looking for members # 15 and 16, once they exhaust consideration of every school they'd actually like to have in the conference and get to the Dollar Store programs, they're more likely to pursue Houston than TCU. 

The fact that you ended w/ UH to the SEC, should tell you that the conversation, and line of thinking took a wrong turn somewhere.

[Thiefery 5113]

54 minutes ago, hiphopfroggy said:

Yea, the SEC is chomping at the bit to get UH but they just can't seem to pry them away from the AAC.

 

Big16

West div

Washington
Oregon
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Arizona
Arizona St

Central div

UT
OU
OK St
TT
TCU
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St




B1G

B1G West 

Wisconsin
Iowa
Utah
Nebraska
Minnesota
Colorado 
Illinois 
Northwestern


B1G East

Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St
Penn St
Indiana
Purdue
Maryland
Rutgers




WVU to ACC
 

Best thing about this.. Even if WV and Baylor cry about this.. They can't do anything to overturn it. 

[tonedeaf 56]

14 hours ago, Somnio said:

And who in 2012 thought it was a good idea to sign this "Contract For Conference Membership" which binds us to this shit conference until the year 2111?

That's my thought.  There is no way Texas and especially ou is going to sit here till 2111 and twiddle their thumbs. Our hates this conference.  They will be the kingpin that gets this started.  Could be fun.  

And fuck baylor. 

[Al_4_ISU 12701]

2 minutes ago, tonedeaf said:

That's my thought.  There is no way Texas and especially ou is going to sit here till 2111 and twiddle their thumbs. Our hates this conference.  They will be the kingpin that gets this started.  Could be fun.  

And fuck baylor. 

The posters on Land Thieves hate this conference.

I think OU admins have to be pretty pleased with the last decade.

[Thiefery 5113]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The posters on Land Thieves hate this conference.

I think OU admins have to be pretty pleased with the last decade.

ou posters blame every loss/CFP loss on the big 12.  Maybe they need to look at Riley?

[closetohumping 17885]

18 hours ago, Somnio said:

I'm still in a state of shocked disbelief everytime I ponder on the fact that the short lived, yet once mighty Big 12 lost the likes of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and TAMU, and replaced them with fucking TCU and West Virginia.

It's inexcusable that the powers that be let the Big 12 fall apart.  It was a great conference while it lasted.

It's really unbelievable that after the great exodus Texas and Oklahoma decided it was still in their best interest to stay in this pathetic excuse for a so-called power conference.

We should have said adios back in the 2012 timeframe when everyone else bolted.

Pac, SEC, B10, independent, whatever.  That was the time to make the move.

Average school on big 12 has increased revenue since they left.  That’s all they care about.   
 

id love to see us in another power five conference

[David Dennison 19585]

USC is not joining the Big XII.

Ever.

 

[Thiefery 5113]

12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

USC is not joining the Big XII.

Ever.

 

Window Trojan, is the saddest Trojan.

[ButtFumble 5317]

19 hours ago, Somnio said:

I'm still in a state of shocked disbelief everytime I ponder on the fact that the short lived, yet once mighty Big 12 lost the likes of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and TAMU, and replaced them with fucking TCU and West Virginia.

It's inexcusable that the powers that be let the Big 12 fall apart.  It was a great conference while it lasted.

It's really unbelievable that after the great exodus Texas and Oklahoma decided it was still in their best interest to stay in this pathetic excuse for a so-called power conference.

We should have said adios back in the 2012 timeframe when everyone else bolted.

Pac, SEC, B10, independent, whatever.  That was the time to make the move.

there was really nothing that could have been done

aggy, NU and probably MU were in favor of unequal revenue sharing along with Texas and OU and probably Kansas

I suppose Texas and OU could have had some magic orb they looked into to see where NU and aggy became total bitches, but I don't think that is realistic (well beyond the bitches they were the entire time)

at the time of unequal revenue sharing the difference was a couple of million dollars at most in most of the years between the top and bottom teams so it was not a major issue

even if Texas and OU had looked into the future and seen bitchassness from aggy and NU equal revenue sharing still would not have helped it would have just become the lie that NU used to leave and probably aggy too....some shit about "Texas" using equal revenue sharing to get a "Texas voting block" is what NU would have said and aggy would have said that Texas was trying to make them earn less and build up Baylor and Tech (and others) to help tear aggy down

here is the reality CU does not give a fuck about athletics they barely did in the Big 12 and they longed for the PAC 10 from the days of the Big 8......when the invite came they were gone no matter what unless the cost to move was 10s of millions per year (it has been probably $50 million so far when you count exit fees and differences in earnings year in and year out)....but at the time most people did not see that would be the case and even if CU was offered a do over for the cost of $50 million or so over 10 years they would probably still do it they just do not give a shit

with NU their chancellor made it clear they were happy in the Big 12, they were 100% in line with Texas on every major issue besides partial qualifiers, they were against a conference network unless it shared revenues UNEQUALLY and they were ahead of Texas on developing their own network....so with all of that 100% from the mouth of the chancellor that made the decision what more was there that anyone could have done

it was only when NU was tipped off at a major meeting that realignment was happening and that NO ONE was talking about NU that they panicked and crawled under the table of the Big 10 and pushed MU out of the way, took their dentures out and started blowing people as fast as possible

the chancellor of NU was the one that proposed the GOR to Powers and Powers said Texas would consider it, but of course it needed to be reviewed......Texas stated they would stay in the Big 12 if NU did.....NU would not make that same commitment that they ASK OF TEXAS and that is directly from their chancellor...then their chancellor tried to catch Powers alone and started talking about "what ifs" and if this team or that team left what would Texas do.....and Powers told him he already had his answer and he was not going to talk about what ifs especially just the two of them alone having a drink

at that point there was nothing that was going to keep NU period they were scared to be left out, the Big 10 offered them stability and they were gone period the end because they knew their chance to make a move was limited and it was now or possibly never

with aggy well how do you deal with a bitch that gets everything they want and still cries....bye bitch

at that point MU realized they were fucked and they had fucked their chance to get in the Big 10 forever and there was only one chance staring them in the face and that was the SEC SEC SEC where they can slowly move to the level of Arkansas or maybe Kentucky if they are lucky long term

nothing was going to keep CU period the end and once NU realized their time was now or probably never nothing was going to keep them......after that nothing was going to keep aggy or MU or probably any other program that had an opening and a fear that was their one and only opening (only OU did not fully have that total fear, but they were nervous)

[Al_4_ISU 12701]

It was just complete and total panic, heavily bred by the at-the-time financial gap between the Big 12 and the Big 10/SEC (which, percentagewise dwarfs the current gap).  If all the schools that left the Big 12 sit down with OU and UT, the Big 12 today has a contract that's exactly on part with the SEC and Big 10.  But everyone freaked out and made panic decisions.  To some extent OU and UT were in on the fray, but obviously slowed their roll and cooled their heads.

A lot of this also comes back to this weird mindset that most of the powerful Big 12 schools and fanbases have always had:  we are better than the rest of these schools, and X league is a better league with more prestige and we should go there.  I really don't understand it, especially looking at it from the lens of 2010, but it persists to this day.

Ohio State and Michigan don't look at Purdue, Northwestern, and Indiana and think "we should ditch these schlubs for Prestige Worldwide".  That attitude is much more prevalent among schools that were or are in the Big 12.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Al_4_ISU

[Thiefery 5113]

12 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It was just complete and total panic, heavily bred by the at-the-time financial gap between the Big 12 and the Big 10/SEC (which, percentagewise dwarfs the current gap).  If all the schools that left the Big 12 sit down with OU and UT, the Big 12 today has a contract that's exactly on part with the SEC and Big 10.  But everyone freaked out and made panic decisions.  To some extent OU and UT were in on the fray, but obviously slowed their roll and cooled their heads.

A lot of this also comes back to this weird mindset that most of the powerful Big 12 schools and fanbases have always had:  we are better than the rest of these schools, and X league is a better league with more prestige and we should go there.  I really don't understand it, especially looking at it from the lens of 2010, but it persists to this day.

Ohio State and Michigan don't look at Purdue, Northwestern, and Indiana and think "we should ditch these schlubs for Prestige Worldwide".  That attitude is much more prevalent among schools that were or are in the Big 12.

I read this post in a condescending tone towards you and your school Al..

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

51 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

USC is not joining the Big XII.

Ever.

 

what about if Ohio State joins first, genius, what then?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Ohio State and Michigan don't look at Purdue, Northwestern, and Indiana and think "we should ditch these schlubs for Prestige Worldwide".  That attitude is much more prevalent among schools that were or are in the Big 12.

Ohio State and Michigan have been in a conference with those schools for a hundred-plus years and the conference has a purpose outside of athletics. 

[ButtFumble 5317]

3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It was just complete and total panic, heavily bred by the at-the-time financial gap between the Big 12 and the Big 10/SEC (which, percentagewise dwarfs the current gap).  If all the schools that left the Big 12 sit down with OU and UT, the Big 12 today has a contract that's exactly on part with the SEC and Big 10.  But everyone freaked out and made panic decisions.  To some extent OU and UT were in on the fray, but obviously slowed their roll and cooled their heads.

A lot of this also comes back to this weird mindset that most of the powerful Big 12 schools and fanbases have always had:  we are better than the rest of these schools, and X league is a better league with more prestige and we should go there.  I really don't understand it, especially looking at it from the lens of 2010, but it persists to this day.

Ohio State and Michigan don't look at Purdue, Northwestern, and Indiana and think "we should ditch these schlubs for Prestige Worldwide".  That attitude is much more prevalent among schools that were or are in the Big 12.

actually at the time the financial differences were not that great and no one was close to knowing where things were headed

for CU there was nothing financial about it at all it was all about wanting to be with PAC 10 schools and in my opinion wanting to be in a conference where just spending some money and putting some teams out there on the field was all it took to be a good member

with NU it was about the belief that they were going to be left on an island alone in the middle of nowhere if they did not make a move then

with aggy it was about find a new daddy because they were tired of Texas being their daddy and they wanted to have several daddies so they could ride on their success

with MU it was about realizing they had blown their chance at the Big 10 forever and they were probably going to be left out if the SEC SEC SEC did not fall in their lap

between the exit fees and the buy in NU did not become financially whole until 2018 at the earliest and that is excluding any 3rd tier revenues they would have earned in the Big 12 and if you count that they will probably break even this year (and yes cash in after that), but 10 years is a long time to have to make up that money

CU is probably in the hole $50 million on the move if not more

it was about teams wanting something different (CU or aggy a new daddy(s) )or not believing in themselves that they could carry a conference and be a builder instead of a taker so they when where they could be secure as a taker (NU, aggy, MU)

[Al_4_ISU 12701]

8 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Ohio State and Michigan have been in a conference with those schools for a hundred-plus years and the conference has a purpose outside of athletics. 

It's a uniquely Big 12 attitude.  The SEC, ACC, etc don't behave that way either.  The Pac 12 is sliding that way as they struggle more financially.

And it's not just among the schools who became more recent associates with each other.  Mizzou always felt they were better than the other Big 8 schools.  Same with Colorado.  There was this attitude that they were better than these dusty cow colleges in the middle of the country.  Portions of the OU and Texas fanbase have picked it up, by I don't know that it's nearly as strong as those were.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Al_4_ISU

[ButtFumble 5317]

Just now, SwanderedTalent said:

Ohio State and Michigan have been in a conference with those schools for a hundred-plus years and the conference has a purpose outside of athletics. 

that purpose is pretty dramatically over stated....to the point it has somewhat been unwinding with U. Chicago (an extremely prestigious school with a very high research profile) basically being ask to step out (and pretty much saying sure bye) and with Johns Hopkins (the university with far and away the highest amount of research because of their Applied Physics Lab affiliation) being offered membership in the Big 10 Consortium and saying "no thanks" after they became a part of the Big 10 in minor sports......and of course that academic association has done nothing to really boost the research productivity of NU since their membership in the Big 10

[ButtFumble 5317]

Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

It's a uniquely Big 12 attitude.  The SEC, ACC, etc don't behave that way.  The Pac 12 is sliding that way as they struggle more financially.

And it's not just among the schools who became more recent associates with each other.  Mizzou always felt they were better than the other Big 8 schools.  Same with Colorado.  There was this attitude that they were better than these dusty cow colleges in the middle of the country.  Portions of the OU and Texas fanbase have picked it up, by I don't know that it's nearly as strong as those were.

the funny thing is that attitude is now in the SEC SEC SEC....thanks to the dumb asses at aggy

they have thread after thread talking about how Vandy needs to go, or the Mississippi schools suck and add nothing to the conference, how SC never does shit, Kentucky is a one trick pony with basketball, Tennessee will never be good again, and Arkansas is lucky they got in the conference when they did otherwise they would probably not be able to now

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

31 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

that purpose is pretty dramatically over stated

only if you're talking about who gets into the Big Ten at this point.

it's not overstated, when the subject is "let's ditch the shittier athletic programs in our conference"

 

[jinx 2636]

2 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

there was really nothing that could have been done

aggy, NU and probably MU were in favor of unequal revenue sharing along with Texas and OU and probably Kansas

I suppose Texas and OU could have had some magic orb they looked into to see where NU and aggy became total bitches, but I don't think that is realistic (well beyond the bitches they were the entire time)

at the time of unequal revenue sharing the difference was a couple of million dollars at most in most of the years between the top and bottom teams so it was not a major issue

even if Texas and OU had looked into the future and seen bitchassness from aggy and NU equal revenue sharing still would not have helped it would have just become the lie that NU used to leave and probably aggy too....some shit about "Texas" using equal revenue sharing to get a "Texas voting block" is what NU would have said and aggy would have said that Texas was trying to make them earn less and build up Baylor and Tech (and others) to help tear aggy down

here is the reality CU does not give a fuck about athletics they barely did in the Big 12 and they longed for the PAC 10 from the days of the Big 8......when the invite came they were gone no matter what unless the cost to move was 10s of millions per year (it has been probably $50 million so far when you count exit fees and differences in earnings year in and year out)....but at the time most people did not see that would be the case and even if CU was offered a do over for the cost of $50 million or so over 10 years they would probably still do it they just do not give a shit

with NU their chancellor made it clear they were happy in the Big 12, they were 100% in line with Texas on every major issue besides partial qualifiers, they were against a conference network unless it shared revenues UNEQUALLY and they were ahead of Texas on developing their own network....so with all of that 100% from the mouth of the chancellor that made the decision what more was there that anyone could have done

it was only when NU was tipped off at a major meeting that realignment was happening and that NO ONE was talking about NU that they panicked and crawled under the table of the Big 10 and pushed MU out of the way, took their dentures out and started blowing people as fast as possible

the chancellor of NU was the one that proposed the GOR to Powers and Powers said Texas would consider it, but of course it needed to be reviewed......Texas stated they would stay in the Big 12 if NU did.....NU would not make that same commitment that they ASK OF TEXAS and that is directly from their chancellor...then their chancellor tried to catch Powers alone and started talking about "what ifs" and if this team or that team left what would Texas do.....and Powers told him he already had his answer and he was not going to talk about what ifs especially just the two of them alone having a drink

at that point there was nothing that was going to keep NU period they were scared to be left out, the Big 10 offered them stability and they were gone period the end because they knew their chance to make a move was limited and it was now or possibly never

with aggy well how do you deal with a bitch that gets everything they want and still cries....bye bitch

at that point MU realized they were fucked and they had fucked their chance to get in the Big 10 forever and there was only one chance staring them in the face and that was the SEC SEC SEC where they can slowly move to the level of Arkansas or maybe Kentucky if they are lucky long term

nothing was going to keep CU period the end and once NU realized their time was now or probably never nothing was going to keep them......after that nothing was going to keep aggy or MU or probably any other program that had an opening and a fear that was their one and only opening (only OU did not fully have that total fear, but they were nervous)

I read this whole thing and not once did you point out that it was all Texas' fault.

Total fiction.

[camel at sea 589]

3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

USC is not joining the Big XII.

Ever.

 

Not alone.  With a few friends and for $100M+ more than they'd make in the PAC over the life of the next media rights contract?  Maybe.  They're not publicly banging the drum about "all options on the table" if they aren't at least entertaining fallback plans.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Maybe the Airplane Conference's time has come

[hiphopfroggy 121]

Canzano: Oregon Ducks need to join USC and put Pac-12 Conference on notice

Updated 2:00 PM; Today 10:25 AM

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2020/03/canzano-oregon-ducks-need-to-join-usc-and-put-pac-12-conference-on-notice.html

 

[kopp0e 1135]

3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Maybe the Airplane Conference's time has come

A little backstory, of how 2 far-flung leagues almost came to be, for the purpose of tv revenues: APC & ESC, (let's say similar is tried in future)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconference

The proposed "Airplane Conference" (1959)
Although the term was not used at the time, perhaps the first superconference was the proposed "Airplane Conference" of 1959. The brainchild of University of Pittsburgh Athletic Director Tom Hamilton, the proposed 13 team conference would have stretched across the United States. It would have consisted of five former members of the Pacific Coast Conference (Washington, California, USC, UCLA and Stanford), the three largest service academies (Army, Navy, and Air Force), and four Eastern universities (Notre Dame, Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse).[1][2][3] The "Airplane Conference" failed to form after the service academies backed out because of the Pentagon's opposition to the idea.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconference

Penn State, Notre Dame, and the proposed "Eastern Seaboard League" (1990)
Also in 1990, the concept of the superconference came into the national spotlight as Penn State joined the Big Ten as its 11th member. That same year, Notre Dame reached its own television deal with NBC instead of continuing its participation in the College Football Association's contract with CBS. Both of these moves greatly concerned schools with independent football programs and resulted in discussions among Eastern independents concerning the creation of a proposed "Eastern Seaboard League" (ESL). According to a 1990 Sports Illustrated article, the ten schools most likely to join the ESL were Miami, Boston College, Florida State, South Carolina, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt.[7] The ESL was never formed, but the Big East decided to sponsor football starting in 1991 and added Miami, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Temple, and Rutgers as conference members.[8]

Edited March 3, 2020 by kopp0e

[Doc Sam Beckett 5912]

The Airplane Conference is awesome 

[JFKFC 4988]

10 hours ago, hiphopfroggy said:

Canzano: Oregon Ducks need to join USC and put Pac-12 Conference on notice

Updated 2:00 PM; Today 10:25 AM

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2020/03/canzano-oregon-ducks-need-to-join-usc-and-put-pac-12-conference-on-notice.html

 

I have to think Oregon has more real leverage than USC. Legally, a private university seems vulnerable. I can't imagine an Oregon state court will allow any material judgment against the best interest of a state university, regardless of legal standing or merit. Same goes for us in a Texas state court. 

[Iceman 2996]

21 hours ago, Thiefery said:

wouldn't aggy protest this?  

Is that not an incentive to move on it?

[SunUvAbitchMarcos 129]

actually at the time the financial differences were not that great and no one was close to knowing where things were headed
for CU there was nothing financial about it at all it was all about wanting to be with PAC 10 schools and in my opinion wanting to be in a conference where just spending some money and putting some teams out there on the field was all it took to be a good member
with NU it was about the belief that they were going to be left on an island alone in the middle of nowhere if they did not make a move then
with aggy it was about find a new daddy because they were tired of Texas being their daddy and they wanted to have several daddies so they could ride on their success
with MU it was about realizing they had blown their chance at the Big 10 forever and they were probably going to be left out if the SEC SEC SEC did not fall in their lap
between the exit fees and the buy in NU did not become financially whole until 2018 at the earliest and that is excluding any 3rd tier revenues they would have earned in the Big 12 and if you count that they will probably break even this year (and yes cash in after that), but 10 years is a long time to have to make up that money
CU is probably in the hole $50 million on the move if not more
it was about teams wanting something different (CU or aggy a new daddy(s) )or not believing in themselves that they could carry a conference and be a builder instead of a taker so they when where they could be secure as a taker (NU, aggy, MU)

Curious at to how Colorado is "50 million dollars in the hole"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PilotsError 2343]

Lol Oregon had a skewered perception of their national brand.

[TeddyBearStallion 73]

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

Lol Oregon had a skewered perception of their national brand.

They've built a national brand, it's not skewed.  

Edited March 3, 2020 by TeddyBearStallion

[PilotsError 2343]

lol no

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

They've built a national brand, it's not skewed.  

no, he's right, if they think a) they can dictate anything to the Pac-12, and b) they're on USC's level in terms of appeal and influence, their perception of the value of their brand is skewed

[hiphopfroggy 121]

 

Analysis: For Larry Scott’s tenure as Pac-12 commissioner, the future is now

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/analysis-for-larry-scotts-tenure-as-pac-12-commissioner-the-future-is-now/    hold esc during load to bypass blocker

 

 

The Pac-12’s unique structure, with a wholly-owned media company, adds another layer to the timing for the presidents and chancellors to consider.

The negotiations likely to begin in the fall of 2022 won’t be restricted to the future of the Tier One content currently owned by ESPN and Fox. They would include the Pac-12 Networks’ inventory of football, basketball and Olympic sports.

Scott believes that by placing everything on the table at once, the conference would be better positioned for a jackpot.

But because the content on the Pac-12 Networks isn’t licensed to a media partner, there are no restrictions on the conference’s ability to begin exploratory discussions specific to that inventory.

As a result, Scott (or his successor) could conceivably begin to formulate a broader media strategy well in advance of the formal Tier One negotiations.

“(With) the potential equity investment and selection of a consultant and things along those lines,” a source said of Scott’s future, “they should start pretty soon.”

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

"Oh, it's football basketball AND women's soccer? Well holy shit, in that case here's another billion."

[ButtFumble 5317]

6 hours ago, SunUvAbitchMarcos said:

Curious at to how Colorado is "50 million dollars in the hole"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it cost them about $7 million in exit fees to leave the Big 12

since that time they have been earning about $1 to $3 million a year less in the PAC 12 not counting any 3rd tier they might have earned in the Big 12 with the exception of maybe 1 year

one can see here from FY 2013 and beyond

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/campus-corner/article313346/Forbes-Big-Ten-tops-revenue-list-but-Big-12-richest-league-per-school.html

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2015/05/21/pac-12-conference-fy14-revenues-expenses-and-per-school-distributions/

https://herosports.com/college-football/pac-12-revenue-distribution-power-five-ahah

quick math from the first article for 2013 the Big 12 was about $2 million ahead and that is not counting the massively higher overhead of the PAC 12 because of their network ownership that means they distribute less of their total revenue than other conferences

2014

Big 12: $23 million
Pac-12: $21 million (does not include Tier 3 withholdings of approx 750k)

2015

in 2015 (not on a Wilner article) the PAC 12 was ahead by about $2 million

2016

Big 12: $30.4 million
Pac-12: $28.7 million

2017

Big 12: $34 million 
Pac-12: $29.5 million

2018

Big 12: $37.5 million
Pac-12: $32.5 million

so you are looking at -$7 (exit fees) + (2011 unknown) + (2012 unknown) - $2 (2013) -$2 (2014) +$2 (2015)  -$1.7 (2016) -$4.5 (2017) -$5 (2018)

so right there you are looking at $20.2 million in the hole from Big 12 revenues

they should be below the Big 12 about another $5 million in 2019 with lower PAC12n revenues because they have been getting dropped and because the PAC 12 has been missing the playoffs and they are doing poorly in NCAA credits so you are at $25.2

it should be noted as Wilner shows many PAC 12 schools actually pay (out of their own pocket after distributions) amounts of about $500,000 to $1m+ to buy back their 3rd tier content from whatever entity they had sold it off to (that is the $750,000 he averages in his numbers), but there is a chance that Colorado coming from the Big 12 did not have that issue so I am not counting that......but if CU had been in the Big 12 they would have been able to sell their 3rd tier rights just like everyone else and that would be at the lowest $1 million per year (everyone in the Big 12 sold theirs for more than that some much more) and those 3rd tier numbers are not in any of the above distribution numbers.....so if you add in $1 million per year for 9 years to the Big 12 numbers you have another -$9 million

so Colorado is looking at being $34.2 million in the hole easily from not being in the Big 12

so perhaps my $50 million was a bit high, but I imagine if you add in travel cost and lower ticket sales from visiting fans (no one is coming east to see PAC 12 football in Colorado from PAC 12 schools) you can probably get a good deal closer to $50 million

I will be the first to say that "travel" is not always a factor of distance it is a factor of availability of flights and other services, but even the harder places to get to for Colorado vs Big 12 schools are not as hard to get to as some PAC 12 schools plus some of the "easy" places to get to for Colorado are going to be extremely expensive for hotels and meals because they are in California and Seattle where as the bigger cities for the Big 12 are not that expensive and when you factor that in for all sports I imagine they are spending a great deal more on travel

but still I was a bit high with $50 million on pure revenues it is closer to $35 million using comparable numbers from the same sources just counting distributions  (that are very reliable like Wilner) no travel or lower ticket sales and that is using a very conservative $1 million valuation on potential 3rd tier earnings in the Big 12 if you bumped that to $2 million per year (hardly unreasonable) then you are looking at a $43.2 million deficit which is a lot of money over 10 years especially to a program like Colorado

at best Colorado is easily $25 million in the hole and growing each year and continuing to grow until the current TV deals run out, but I think it is highly reasonable to include some 3rd tier revenues if they were in the Big 12 and even at the very lowest end of that Colorado gets into the hole much more than $25 million and much closer to $50 million

[Handcruser 2817]

it cost them about $7 million in exit fees to leave the Big 12
since that time they have been earning about $1 to $3 million a year less in the PAC 12 not counting any 3rd tier they might have earned in the Big 12 with the exception of maybe 1 year
one can see here from FY 2013 and beyond
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/campus-corner/article313346/Forbes-Big-Ten-tops-revenue-list-but-Big-12-richest-league-per-school.html
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2015/05/21/pac-12-conference-fy14-revenues-expenses-and-per-school-distributions/
https://herosports.com/college-football/pac-12-revenue-distribution-power-five-ahah
quick math from the first article for 2013 the Big 12 was about $2 million ahead and that is not counting the massively higher overhead of the PAC 12 because of their network ownership that means they distribute less of their total revenue than other conferences
2014
Big 12: $23 million
Pac-12: $21 million (does not include Tier 3 withholdings of approx 750k)
2015
in 2015 (not on a Wilner article) the PAC 12 was ahead by about $2 million
2016
Big 12: $30.4 million
Pac-12: $28.7 million
2017
Big 12: $34 million 
Pac-12: $29.5 million
2018
Big 12: $37.5 million
Pac-12: $32.5 million
so you are looking at -$7 (exit fees) + (2011 unknown) + (2012 unknown) - $2 (2013) -$2 (2014) +$2 (2015)  -$1.7 (2016) -$4.5 (2017) -$5 (2018)
so right there you are looking at $20.2 million in the hole from Big 12 revenues
they should be below the Big 12 about another $5 million in 2019 with lower PAC12n revenues because they have been getting dropped and because the PAC 12 has been missing the playoffs and they are doing poorly in NCAA credits so you are at $25.2
it should be noted as Wilner shows many PAC 12 schools actually pay (out of their own pocket after distributions) amounts of about $500,000 to $1m+ to buy back their 3rd tier content from whatever entity they had sold it off to (that is the $750,000 he averages in his numbers), but there is a chance that Colorado coming from the Big 12 did not have that issue so I am not counting that......but if CU had been in the Big 12 they would have been able to sell their 3rd tier rights just like everyone else and that would be at the lowest $1 million per year (everyone in the Big 12 sold theirs for more than that some much more) and those 3rd tier numbers are not in any of the above distribution numbers.....so if you add in $1 million per year for 9 years to the Big 12 numbers you have another -$9 million
so Colorado is looking at being $34.2 million in the hole easily from not being in the Big 12
so perhaps my $50 million was a bit high, but I imagine if you add in travel cost and lower ticket sales from visiting fans (no one is coming east to see PAC 12 football in Colorado from PAC 12 schools) you can probably get a good deal closer to $50 million
I will be the first to say that "travel" is not always a factor of distance it is a factor of availability of flights and other services, but even the harder places to get to for Colorado vs Big 12 schools are not as hard to get to as some PAC 12 schools plus some of the "easy" places to get to for Colorado are going to be extremely expensive for hotels and meals because they are in California and Seattle where as the bigger cities for the Big 12 are not that expensive and when you factor that in for all sports I imagine they are spending a great deal more on travel
but still I was a bit high with $50 million on pure revenues it is closer to $35 million using comparable numbers from the same sources just counting distributions  (that are very reliable like Wilner) no travel or lower ticket sales and that is using a very conservative $1 million valuation on potential 3rd tier earnings in the Big 12 if you bumped that to $2 million per year (hardly unreasonable) then you are looking at a $43.2 million deficit which is a lot of money over 10 years especially to a program like Colorado
at best Colorado is easily $25 million in the hole and growing each year and continuing to grow until the current TV deals run out, but I think it is highly reasonable to include some 3rd tier revenues if they were in the Big 12 and even at the very lowest end of that Colorado gets into the hole much more than $25 million and much closer to $50 million

Way too much math.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Loose Stool 112]

10 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Way too much math.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

But good and interesting information.  I suspect the number is definitely closer to $45-50 million by the time the current deal expires.  Definitely an issue for a school like Colorado.  

Analysis like this is going on at all these schools.  None of these schools wants to get left out of the next big deal.  Colorado doesn't want to drop to the same income level as Colorado State and Washington State doesn't want to become Eastern Washington.  It will be interesting to see where all the pieces land when the next deal happens.

[texifornia 59125]

 

[IDIOTsavant 8690]

1 hour ago, texifornia said:

 

Spoiler

The people in charge have changed. The landscape has changed. But two interviews given in the past week by USC’s athletic director have made one thing abundantly clear. If the Big 12 wants to pull a Count of Monte Cristo and gut the league that tried to sentence it to college sports purgatory 10 years ago, it’s going to have the chance.

And given the opportunity, it absolutely should do it.

Last week, Ryan Abraham of 247Sports asked new USC AD Mike Bohn during a podcast interview whether the Trojans would be willing to consider independence or joining another conference. “I think right now, and (Pac-12 commissioner) Larry (Scott) would agree with this, everything’s on the table,” Bohn replied.

Spoiler alert: Larry absolutely would not agree with this.

Dennis Dodd of CBSSports.com then called Bohn and asked him to clarify. Bohn said that USC is “aligned” with the Pac-12. He also said this:

“There’s no talk of (leaving), but guess what? If it was on the table, we would certainly explore that. But I’ve got to be careful. The league is really tender.

“The context that I was talking about was whether it was league TV stuff, creative pieces with any other type of deliverable, it has to be on the table. Guess what? If that helps (the league) understand the importance of what our campuses are going through, so be it.”

Those words could not be reassuring to the people at Pac-12 headquarters. Nor should they be surprising. The leaders of Pac-12 schools, especially the ones such as USC that provide the league’s drawing power, grow more frustrated with each passing day as they fall farther behind the Big Ten and SEC.

A new media rights deal is coming for the Pac-12, but not until after the Big Ten and SEC make new deals that will allow them to continue to dwarf the Pac-12’s revenue-generating capacity. Short of making people suddenly care about Cal football the way Auburn or Iowa fans feel about their teams, there isn’t much anyone in the Pac-12 can do to change the league’s trajectory.

But what if there was another way? What if there was a league that had the capacity to take on the Pac-12’s biggest earners and create a new entity that could get closer to those numbers the Big Ten and SEC can generate? And what if that league already had a financial setup designed to appeal to programs whose leaders are sick of subsidizing conference members whose brands aren’t nearly as strong?

Well, there is such a league.

The Big 12.

Between now and when the Pac-12’s media rights deal — and accompanying Grant of Rights agreement — runs out in spring 2024, the Big 12 needs to invite USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Arizona State. The Big 12 needs to do to the Pac-12 what the Pac-12 tried to do 10 years ago to the Big 12. It needs to do it unapologetically. If we learned anything from the previous rounds of conference realignment, this is a kill-or-be-killed business. The Pac-12 took its shot in 2010 and missed. The Big 12 can secure its long-term survival by ensuring it doesn’t.

---

Before we lay out the blueprint for future conference realignment intrigue, let’s travel back 10 years. The Pac-10 and Big 12, looking to strengthen their upcoming media rights deals, had held some preliminary talks about a potential scheduling alliance. Scott, the new Pac-10 commissioner who had come to the league from the Women’s Tennis Association, thought much bigger. He realized that if he could pry Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado away from the Big 12, his league could sign an obscenely rich media rights deal and create a conference network that essentially would print money. Just imagine it: Texas, USC, Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas A&M under one umbrella.

Scott nearly pulled it off, too. Unfortunately for him, he got outmaneuvered by a more experienced college sports operator named DeLoss Dodds. Dodds, the longtime athletic director at Texas, went down the road with the Pac-10 while simultaneously remaining engaged with Big 12 leadership. The endgame for Texas was the best possible deal — for Texas. The Pac-10 crew thought the deal was done. Scott and his team visited campuses, ready to welcome the new members to the fold. Just before the Pac-10 group left College Station to head to Austin, Texas A&M regent Jim Wilson asked Scott what he planned to do when Texas asked to create its own network. Scott replied that such an option wasn’t on the table.

Except that’s exactly what Texas wanted. Instead of finalizing a deal, Texas officials asked if they could join the Pac-10 and still start their own cable network. The entire Pac-10 plan was contingent upon all the schools pooling their third-tier rights to create a conference network, and the deal fell apart. The first Big 12 Missile Crisis ended without total destruction, and Texas got its chance to create the channel we now know as the Longhorn Network.

The Pac-10’s incursion came as Nebraska was leaving for the Big Ten. Colorado used the drama as a chance to leap from the Big 12 to the Pac-12, where it appeared to be a better cultural fit. The Big 12 managed to stay together, but the creation of the Longhorn Network the following year was the last straw for Texas A&M, which left for the SEC. Missouri, which also had been looking to leave, quickly followed suit. The Big 12 was completely destabilized and seemed in danger of becoming like the Big East, which had started this century as a peer of the Power 5 leagues and wound up getting split into a basketball-only league (the Big East) and a middle-class all-sports league (the American Athletic Conference) after the ACC took what it needed to ensure its own survival.

For several years, the Big 12 was a laughingstock. Its attempts to regain its footing were lampooned. Some of this was justified. Paying a consultant to use two years of College Football Playoff data to guide longterm strategy was the equivalent of lighting money on fire, and the upshot of that was a dog-and-pony-show audition process that made schools such as UCF and Cincinnati think they had a chance to join a Power 5 league when the truth was the 10 existing members weren’t going to take on another mouth to feed unless that new member could guarantee the existing members made the same or more money.

Meanwhile, the leagues that had agreed to even media rights revenue splits across the board enjoyed the stability the Big 12 sought. But while all those other leagues were pointing and laughing at the Big 12, the Big 12 members were cutting individual deals for their third-tier rights that made them quite content from a revenue standpoint and left them competitive with the ACC and more comfortable than Pac-12 members. Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, who was Stanford’s athletic director when the Pac-10 tried to raid the Big 12, steered the league out of an existential crisis and into calm waters.

Last year, the Big 12 distributed an average of $38.8 million per school. The average distribution by the Pac-12 for the 2017-18 school year was $31.3 million per school. In the same fiscal year, the Big 12’s full distributions ranged from $33.6 million to $36.6 million. But that doesn’t paint the entire picture.

Because Big 12 schools can sell their third-tier rights individually, they can make millions more. Texas makes about $15 million a year from the Longhorn Network. Oklahoma makes about $7 million a year for its third-tier deal. Pac-12 schools’ third-tier rights are bundled to program the Pac-12 Network. That money is included in the conference revenue figure. Jon Wilner of the Bay Area News Group reported last year that the per-school contribution from the network in 2018 came out to about $2.7 million.

---

Now it is Scott’s league that faces the existential crisis. And the drivers for realignment have changed. It makes no sense for the Big Ten or SEC to expand again. There is no one other than Texas and Oklahoma that either league would want, and Texas and Oklahoma seem content being the primary muscle in the Big 12. Meanwhile, cord-cutting has rendered territory acquisition for the sake of higher cable network subscriber fees, the raison d’etre for the last round of realignment, a fool’s errand. If there is another major round of realignment — and the move being suggested here probably is the only inciting action that would inspire another round — it will be driven by brand names that can draw viewers from across the country. 

USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington fit that description. Arizona and Arizona State, meanwhile, are a geographic fit for the league in a fast-growing state that could make the territory valuable for football recruiting and for brand purposes. USC especially would appreciate the ability to negotiate a separate third-tier deal. The Trojan Network might not command as much as the Longhorn Network, but it would bring USC a hell of a lot more money than the Pac-12 Network does. Meanwhile, the Trojans’ new conference would be headquartered in quite reasonable confines in Irving, Texas, instead of bleeding money paying for space in pricy San Francisco.

Should Oregon and/or Washington protest that they can’t come without Oregon State and/or Washington State, Big 12 officials can simply say “Fine. Then stay where you are.” They could stay content at 14, or they could look in a different direction — perhaps toward UCF and Cincinnati — to create a truly nationwide league. (In sports other than football and basketball, teams could be grouped geographically to limit extreme travel.) They also could approach Stanford and Cal. An association with such academic powerhouses likely would appeal to the other Big 12 presidents. The problem is that neither could draw the kind of interest Oregon and Washington would. USC is the big prize here, but all of these schools could benefit from an association with Texas and Oklahoma. ESPN and Fox would be willing to pay big money for that league.

This could be met with serious resistance from Pac-12 schools that don’t get invited. Remember, Baylor fought Texas A&M’s exit from the Big 12 out of fear that the league would collapse and didn’t stand down until it was clear the Bears would remain in a power conference. That likely would happen again. But if all this takes place within the vicinity of the expiration of the Pac-12’s current deal, there might not be much anyone could do.

The popular notion back in 2010 was that if one power league expanded to 16, all the surviving ones also would. I doubt that would happen in this case. The Big Ten and SEC would have no reason to do it. The ACC would happily take Notre Dame football to create a 15th full member — and if that happened might grab a 16th member — but the Fighting Irish have made it abundantly clear that they wish to remain independent in football.

A portion of USC’s fan base is pushing for independence or a partnership with football rival Notre Dame, but the Trojans might be better off joining forces with the Longhorns and Sooners. Just as Scott intended 10 years ago, but in a completely different way.

If the members of the Big 12 want to get aggressive about their future — and perhaps exact a little vengeance — they’ll consider this plan. It could create an immediate payday followed by decades of stability for a league that nearly imploded 10 years ago. Meanwhile, we’d get USC-Oklahoma and Oregon-Texas as conference games.

And if the leaders of the Big 12 decide to take this advice and form a raiding party, I only have one request:

They have to call it the Big 16.

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:26 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

A lot of this also comes back to this weird mindset that most of the powerful Big 12 schools and fanbases have always had:  we are better than the rest of these schools, and X league is a better league with more prestige and we should go there.  I really don't understand it, especially looking at it from the lens of 2010, but it persists to this day.

Not really an issue for Texas in realignment. We're going to be better than all those other schools no matter what conference we're in.

[satyanash 15790]

53 minutes ago, IDIOTsavant said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The people in charge have changed. The landscape has changed. But two interviews given in the past week by USC’s athletic director have made one thing abundantly clear. If the Big 12 wants to pull a Count of Monte Cristo and gut the league that tried to sentence it to college sports purgatory 10 years ago, it’s going to have the chance.

And given the opportunity, it absolutely should do it.

Last week, Ryan Abraham of 247Sports asked new USC AD Mike Bohn during a podcast interview whether the Trojans would be willing to consider independence or joining another conference. “I think right now, and (Pac-12 commissioner) Larry (Scott) would agree with this, everything’s on the table,” Bohn replied.

Spoiler alert: Larry absolutely would not agree with this.

Dennis Dodd of CBSSports.com then called Bohn and asked him to clarify. Bohn said that USC is “aligned” with the Pac-12. He also said this:

“There’s no talk of (leaving), but guess what? If it was on the table, we would certainly explore that. But I’ve got to be careful. The league is really tender.

“The context that I was talking about was whether it was league TV stuff, creative pieces with any other type of deliverable, it has to be on the table. Guess what? If that helps (the league) understand the importance of what our campuses are going through, so be it.”

Those words could not be reassuring to the people at Pac-12 headquarters. Nor should they be surprising. The leaders of Pac-12 schools, especially the ones such as USC that provide the league’s drawing power, grow more frustrated with each passing day as they fall farther behind the Big Ten and SEC.

A new media rights deal is coming for the Pac-12, but not until after the Big Ten and SEC make new deals that will allow them to continue to dwarf the Pac-12’s revenue-generating capacity. Short of making people suddenly care about Cal football the way Auburn or Iowa fans feel about their teams, there isn’t much anyone in the Pac-12 can do to change the league’s trajectory.

But what if there was another way? What if there was a league that had the capacity to take on the Pac-12’s biggest earners and create a new entity that could get closer to those numbers the Big Ten and SEC can generate? And what if that league already had a financial setup designed to appeal to programs whose leaders are sick of subsidizing conference members whose brands aren’t nearly as strong?

Well, there is such a league.

The Big 12.

Between now and when the Pac-12’s media rights deal — and accompanying Grant of Rights agreement — runs out in spring 2024, the Big 12 needs to invite USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Arizona State. The Big 12 needs to do to the Pac-12 what the Pac-12 tried to do 10 years ago to the Big 12. It needs to do it unapologetically. If we learned anything from the previous rounds of conference realignment, this is a kill-or-be-killed business. The Pac-12 took its shot in 2010 and missed. The Big 12 can secure its long-term survival by ensuring it doesn’t.

---

Before we lay out the blueprint for future conference realignment intrigue, let’s travel back 10 years. The Pac-10 and Big 12, looking to strengthen their upcoming media rights deals, had held some preliminary talks about a potential scheduling alliance. Scott, the new Pac-10 commissioner who had come to the league from the Women’s Tennis Association, thought much bigger. He realized that if he could pry Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado away from the Big 12, his league could sign an obscenely rich media rights deal and create a conference network that essentially would print money. Just imagine it: Texas, USC, Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas A&M under one umbrella.

Scott nearly pulled it off, too. Unfortunately for him, he got outmaneuvered by a more experienced college sports operator named DeLoss Dodds. Dodds, the longtime athletic director at Texas, went down the road with the Pac-10 while simultaneously remaining engaged with Big 12 leadership. The endgame for Texas was the best possible deal — for Texas. The Pac-10 crew thought the deal was done. Scott and his team visited campuses, ready to welcome the new members to the fold. Just before the Pac-10 group left College Station to head to Austin, Texas A&M regent Jim Wilson asked Scott what he planned to do when Texas asked to create its own network. Scott replied that such an option wasn’t on the table.

Except that’s exactly what Texas wanted. Instead of finalizing a deal, Texas officials asked if they could join the Pac-10 and still start their own cable network. The entire Pac-10 plan was contingent upon all the schools pooling their third-tier rights to create a conference network, and the deal fell apart. The first Big 12 Missile Crisis ended without total destruction, and Texas got its chance to create the channel we now know as the Longhorn Network.

The Pac-10’s incursion came as Nebraska was leaving for the Big Ten. Colorado used the drama as a chance to leap from the Big 12 to the Pac-12, where it appeared to be a better cultural fit. The Big 12 managed to stay together, but the creation of the Longhorn Network the following year was the last straw for Texas A&M, which left for the SEC. Missouri, which also had been looking to leave, quickly followed suit. The Big 12 was completely destabilized and seemed in danger of becoming like the Big East, which had started this century as a peer of the Power 5 leagues and wound up getting split into a basketball-only league (the Big East) and a middle-class all-sports league (the American Athletic Conference) after the ACC took what it needed to ensure its own survival.

For several years, the Big 12 was a laughingstock. Its attempts to regain its footing were lampooned. Some of this was justified. Paying a consultant to use two years of College Football Playoff data to guide longterm strategy was the equivalent of lighting money on fire, and the upshot of that was a dog-and-pony-show audition process that made schools such as UCF and Cincinnati think they had a chance to join a Power 5 league when the truth was the 10 existing members weren’t going to take on another mouth to feed unless that new member could guarantee the existing members made the same or more money.

Meanwhile, the leagues that had agreed to even media rights revenue splits across the board enjoyed the stability the Big 12 sought. But while all those other leagues were pointing and laughing at the Big 12, the Big 12 members were cutting individual deals for their third-tier rights that made them quite content from a revenue standpoint and left them competitive with the ACC and more comfortable than Pac-12 members. Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, who was Stanford’s athletic director when the Pac-10 tried to raid the Big 12, steered the league out of an existential crisis and into calm waters.

Last year, the Big 12 distributed an average of $38.8 million per school. The average distribution by the Pac-12 for the 2017-18 school year was $31.3 million per school. In the same fiscal year, the Big 12’s full distributions ranged from $33.6 million to $36.6 million. But that doesn’t paint the entire picture.

Because Big 12 schools can sell their third-tier rights individually, they can make millions more. Texas makes about $15 million a year from the Longhorn Network. Oklahoma makes about $7 million a year for its third-tier deal. Pac-12 schools’ third-tier rights are bundled to program the Pac-12 Network. That money is included in the conference revenue figure. Jon Wilner of the Bay Area News Group reported last year that the per-school contribution from the network in 2018 came out to about $2.7 million.

---

Now it is Scott’s league that faces the existential crisis. And the drivers for realignment have changed. It makes no sense for the Big Ten or SEC to expand again. There is no one other than Texas and Oklahoma that either league would want, and Texas and Oklahoma seem content being the primary muscle in the Big 12. Meanwhile, cord-cutting has rendered territory acquisition for the sake of higher cable network subscriber fees, the raison d’etre for the last round of realignment, a fool’s errand. If there is another major round of realignment — and the move being suggested here probably is the only inciting action that would inspire another round — it will be driven by brand names that can draw viewers from across the country. 

USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington fit that description. Arizona and Arizona State, meanwhile, are a geographic fit for the league in a fast-growing state that could make the territory valuable for football recruiting and for brand purposes. USC especially would appreciate the ability to negotiate a separate third-tier deal. The Trojan Network might not command as much as the Longhorn Network, but it would bring USC a hell of a lot more money than the Pac-12 Network does. Meanwhile, the Trojans’ new conference would be headquartered in quite reasonable confines in Irving, Texas, instead of bleeding money paying for space in pricy San Francisco.

Should Oregon and/or Washington protest that they can’t come without Oregon State and/or Washington State, Big 12 officials can simply say “Fine. Then stay where you are.” They could stay content at 14, or they could look in a different direction — perhaps toward UCF and Cincinnati — to create a truly nationwide league. (In sports other than football and basketball, teams could be grouped geographically to limit extreme travel.) They also could approach Stanford and Cal. An association with such academic powerhouses likely would appeal to the other Big 12 presidents. The problem is that neither could draw the kind of interest Oregon and Washington would. USC is the big prize here, but all of these schools could benefit from an association with Texas and Oklahoma. ESPN and Fox would be willing to pay big money for that league.

This could be met with serious resistance from Pac-12 schools that don’t get invited. Remember, Baylor fought Texas A&M’s exit from the Big 12 out of fear that the league would collapse and didn’t stand down until it was clear the Bears would remain in a power conference. That likely would happen again. But if all this takes place within the vicinity of the expiration of the Pac-12’s current deal, there might not be much anyone could do.

The popular notion back in 2010 was that if one power league expanded to 16, all the surviving ones also would. I doubt that would happen in this case. The Big Ten and SEC would have no reason to do it. The ACC would happily take Notre Dame football to create a 15th full member — and if that happened might grab a 16th member — but the Fighting Irish have made it abundantly clear that they wish to remain independent in football.

A portion of USC’s fan base is pushing for independence or a partnership with football rival Notre Dame, but the Trojans might be better off joining forces with the Longhorns and Sooners. Just as Scott intended 10 years ago, but in a completely different way.

If the members of the Big 12 want to get aggressive about their future — and perhaps exact a little vengeance — they’ll consider this plan. It could create an immediate payday followed by decades of stability for a league that nearly imploded 10 years ago. Meanwhile, we’d get USC-Oklahoma and Oregon-Texas as conference games.

And if the leaders of the Big 12 decide to take this advice and form a raiding party, I only have one request:

They have to call it the Big 16.

 

The praise for Bowlsby is perplexing, he's a terrible commissioner.

Rest of the article is pretty spot-on, though. At an absolute minimum, the Big 12 should go after USC and the Arizona schools. Let USC have their 'Trojans Network', and let WVU go if that's what it takes to make it work distance-wise.

It would be a crime to let this opportunity go by the wayside.

[texifornia 59125]

1 minute ago, satyanash said:

The praise for Bowlsby is perplexing, he's a terrible commissioner.

Rest of the article is pretty spot-on, though. At an absolute minimum, the Big 12 should go after USC and the Arizona schools. Let USC have their 'Trojans Network', and let WVU go if that's what it takes to make it work distance-wise.

It would be a crime to let this opportunity go by the wayside.

I generally agree, but I doubt any of it will happen - the Pac schools have a far greater emotional tie to their conference than the Big XII schools do.

[utee94 16093]

Ultimately, the question will be, when your sports budget is $100M-$150M/year, is $2M-$5M per year deficit to other conferences, really enough to enter the logistical nightmare of a conference that ranges from the west coast to the plains states?  So far the answer has been no.

If that gap widens to $10M/year would it be enough?   Where's the point that it becomes compelling? That's what USC will have to decide.

 

 

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12701]

1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Not really an issue for Texas in realignment. We're going to be better than all those other schools no matter what conference we're in.

It's more of an OU thing right now.  Mizzou, Nebraska, and CU all had it to various degrees.  Although I think Nebraska's was more after the fact.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

44 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's more of an OU thing right now.  Mizzou, Nebraska, and CU all had it to various degrees.  Although I think Nebraska's was more after the fact.

Yeah, I honestly never understood, even with Texas fans (and I am only half joking -- the ACC and PAC have some academic and cultural "equals" to UT, but they also have equivalents to the ag schools and "other" kinds of colleges -- only in the Ivy would I consider Texas "out of place") -- the bottom line is, the best fit is the place where everybody loves watching each other play ball. Even when Texas was in the SWC, I enjoyed the hell out of the Iowa State / Iowa game every year, and Bedlam has been must-see TV pretty much forever. Even the Border War was fun across all sports, even before it was a league game that Texas needed to watch for standings reasons. 

TL:DR, fuck Nebraska, aggy, and Misery for fucking up a good thing. Colorado gets a pass, since they have been sitting in the corner, stoned out of their gourds the whole time anyway.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

TL:DR, fuck Nebraska, aggy, and Misery for fucking up a good thing. Colorado gets a pass, since they have been sitting in the corner, stoned out of their gourds the whole time anyway.

that Colorado-Nebraska rivalry, culminating in the 2001 game, was pretty fucking enjoyable

it doesn't feel like a "rivalry" when they play now

[Al_4_ISU 12701]

58 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Yeah, I honestly never understood, even with Texas fans (and I am only half joking -- the ACC and PAC have some academic and cultural "equals" to UT, but they also have equivalents to the ag schools and "other" kinds of colleges -- only in the Ivy would I consider Texas "out of place") -- the bottom line is, the best fit is the place where everybody loves watching each other play ball. Even when Texas was in the SWC, I enjoyed the hell out of the Iowa State / Iowa game every year, and Bedlam has been must-see TV pretty much forever. Even the Border War was fun across all sports, even before it was a league game that Texas needed to watch for standings reasons. 

TL:DR, fuck Nebraska, aggy, and Misery for fucking up a good thing. Colorado gets a pass, since they have been sitting in the corner, stoned out of their gourds the whole time anyway.

Agreed.  The Big 12 was a really good fit, and even still is with the exception of WVU.  It covered every major college between the Mississippi and the Rockies except for Piggy and Herky - who are both solid cultural fits in their current arrangement.  Sure, the Plains are a forgotten part of the country without a ton of sexy media markets, but people fucking love college sports here.

[Thiefery 5113]

Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

Agreed.  The Big 12 was a really good fit, and even still is with the exception of WVU.  It covered every major college between the Mississippi and the Rockies except for Piggy and Herky - who are both solid cultural fits in their current arrangement.  Sure, the Plains are a forgotten part of the country without a ton of sexy media markets, but people fucking love college sports here.

Yeah WV and Baylor need to get out.  If Staples thing was to come true, rather USC bring 7 others so it can keep many of those rivalry games alive in a 8 school division.