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Realignment talk not going away

The Tower

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Posted by Sandbagging Steve,

How many teams will be left when the dust settles in a few years? I think there's a way for all the teams to still have some involvement. I will explain that at the end of this list. Here's my list of the top 32 programs and a list if it goes to 48. There's some debate if it goes to 48, but not much debate if it stops at 32. I guess one could debate Arizona State, but that's about it. The top 32 at least come close to carrying their own weight. Everyone below that line is losing money for t

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'stache

'stache 22,117

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I’ll never believe the WVU fans having anything to do with this, half the sec has worse fans, Ohio State is terrible too (I can vouch for that with first hand experience). And I don’t recall much controversy with them since they joined the Big XII. I think it’s just a weird fit since wvu is more rural and more like the south than the coast. 

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Aggy should abstain so the vote is 13-0 and then we can then brand it on their dog.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3,438

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I’ll never believe the WVU fans having anything to do with this, half the sec has worse fans, Ohio State is terrible too (I can vouch for that with first hand experience). And I don’t recall much controversy with them since they joined the Big XII. I think it’s just a weird fit since wvu is more rural and more like the south than the coast. 

I've been to many bowl games and interacted with fans from all over the country. The worst experience I've had BY FAR was the 2004 Alamo Bowl when we played Ohio State.

They were the biggest bunch of fucking pricks I've ever interacted with.  I mean, I get OU fans being fucking douchenozzles because we are their rival non-rival, but typically bowl game experiences with other fans are really fun because it's teams/fan bases you don't typically interact with and everyone is there to have a good time.

However, those fucksticks were just straight-up ass. Just the worst.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34,407

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2 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I've been to many bowl games and interacted with fans from all over the country. The worst experience I've had BY FAR was the 2004 Alamo Bowl when we played Ohio State.

They were the biggest bunch of fucking pricks I've ever interacted with.  I mean, I get OU fans being fucking douchenozzles because we are their rival non-rival, but typically bowl game experiences with other fans are really fun because it's teams/fan bases you don't typically interact with and everyone is there to have a good time.

However, those fucksticks were just straight-up ass. Just the worst.

The stories of Ohio State fans being shitheads are even more numerous than the stories on Texags written by absolutely-real-definitely-not-fake-first-time-posters-from-other-schools about how well they were treated in College Station.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3,438

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The stories of Ohio State fans being shitheads are even more numerous than the stories on Texags written by absolutely-real-definitely-not-fake-first-time-posters-from-other-schools about how well they were treated in College Station.

I mean... I was actually taken aback how shitty they were.

I've had awesome times with fans from SECSECSEC, the PAC, ACC... pretty much all over the country. 

I think my first clue that things may not go well was we had set up our tailgate outside the Alamo Dome pretty early that day... we had our music going and booze flowing... we tried to wave over the first group of Ohio State fans we saw walking nearby and they promptly flipped us off and kept walking.  We were all like, WTF?!?!?!?!

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'stache

'stache 22,117

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30 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I've been to many bowl games and interacted with fans from all over the country. The worst experience I've had BY FAR was the 2004 Alamo Bowl when we played Ohio State.

They were the biggest bunch of fucking pricks I've ever interacted with.  I mean, I get OU fans being fucking douchenozzles because we are their rival non-rival, but typically bowl game experiences with other fans are really fun because it's teams/fan bases you don't typically interact with and everyone is there to have a good time.

However, those fucksticks were just straight-up ass. Just the worst.

My experience was when I went to the game against Tulsa a few years ago. I have a group of buddies from high school who are split between OU and OSU so we decided to attend Tulsa's big road games (including the Notre Dame game where the Cane's won). We were wearing Tulsa gear in Columbus and were yelled at a lot by some of the drunkest people I've ever seen in public. Luckily it never got the point of feeling physically threatened, but god damn, you would think they would at least be indifferent to G5 fans with no history against them, but nope, still yelled at routinely with condescending comments. The jorts thing was also real, as is the female talent level being, to put it nicely, subpar.

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5 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I've been to many bowl games and interacted with fans from all over the country. The worst experience I've had BY FAR was the 2004 Alamo Bowl when we played Ohio State.

They were the biggest bunch of fucking pricks I've ever interacted with.  I mean, I get OU fans being fucking douchenozzles because we are their rival non-rival, but typically bowl game experiences with other fans are really fun because it's teams/fan bases you don't typically interact with and everyone is there to have a good time.

However, those fucksticks were just straight-up ass. Just the worst.

OU fans were pretty bad at the Rose Bowl vs. UGA.  My Bulldawg wife FINALLY got it about OU.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3,438

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13 hours ago, bullet said:

Since they left for the Pac 12, nobody seems to care about how bad Colorado fans are anymore.  But I think its more their home crowds than their travelling fans.

Oh shit yeah I forgot about Colorado. They were bad at Folsom for sure.  Mizzou fans in Columbia were also surprisingly bad.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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23 hours ago, 'stache said:

I’ll never believe the WVU fans having anything to do with this, half the sec has worse fans, Ohio State is terrible too (I can vouch for that with first hand experience). And I don’t recall much controversy with them since they joined the Big XII. I think it’s just a weird fit since wvu is more rural and more like the south than the coast. 

WVU fans are fucking awesome in real life.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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Posted (edited)
On 11/26/2021 at 10:02 AM, PittsburghTiger said:

At Thanksgiving dinner yesterday this is what I was told from a former WVU football captain who is still reasonably connected.

The reason the Big 12 took four teams is that they knew two more were leaving after Texas and the Land Thieves. Those two being WVU and Kansas. Kansas is going to the Fat 10 and WVU is now trying to find the $70,000,000, or so, to buy its way out of the Big 12 and gain admittance to the ACC.

Another friend of mine who played at WVU, more recently than the first guy, said that WVU was told, emphatically, about 10 years ago that their behavior will forever keep them out of the ACC.

As much as I hate them, athletically, they are a great fit for the ACC. That would immediately bring back two very good rivalries, Pitt and Virginia Tech.

I reckon nobody knows where this will all end.

If Kansas is going to the Big 10, we're going with.  They aren't going to have an odd number in order to add the worst P5 football program in the country.

At this point, I don't see the Big 10 (or ACC) making any adds for a long time, if at all.  New playoff format will dictate further realignment, IMO.

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3,438

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44 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Tell me you've never been to Canada without telling you've never been to Canada.

Or Arkansas, for that matter.

I've been both places. There's an exception for urban/rural divide. Obviously there is hotter trim in Toronto or Vancouver than fucking Little Rock, Arkansas. But I will stand by my original statement that, as a rule, there is hotter trim in warmer climates.

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,319

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3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If Kansas is going to the Big 10, we're going with.  They aren't going to have an odd number in order to add the worst P5 football program in the country.

At this point, I don't see the Big 10 (or ACC) making any adds for a long time, if at all.  New playoff format will dictate further realignment, IMO.

All I know is what these fellows were told.  Nobody, I reckon, certainly not me has any inside information 

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Guest Lobo

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I will miss ISU, OSU, and WVU fans, had a blast at their places and have had a blast with those that visit our tailgates here.  I will miss TCU co-ed talent/dancing girls.  

Won't miss KSU or KAN but won't have to.  My wife's entire extended family all went to K-State so they'll always give me shit for Texas for life.  

I can take or leave Tech.  Only have a two friends that went there, and one little cousin is there now.  For such a large alumni base and as many people as I know in Texas, I just really don't know many Red Raiders.  Strange now that I think about it.  

But I am so, so fucking glad to be done with Baylor.  I will not miss them at all in any capacity.  What a fucking albatross off our neck in so many ways.  May that school rot in obscurity.  

I guess for 2022 football, only road trips worth considering are Tech and OK-State, and maybe one of the Kansas schools to take the little ones to see the in-laws.  But OK-State is same weekend as the USGP so that's out.  I'm sure our actual final game in Lubbock will be the source of some vengeance so that should make it extra fun.  Fuck it, I'm in.  

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Gaffords

Gaffords 774

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On 12/1/2021 at 2:01 PM, Huckleberry said:

Yep. Now you understand why everyone not from Ohio roots for Michigan in The Game.

A little off topic, but a couple of months after the last time we played OSU, I was on a flight back from Montana to Michigan. A chic in a buckeye hoodie and another passenger sitting in front of my row where making small talk about football. I had them tuned out until the buckeye chic, and I quote, " now Texas, we are starting to form a complex with"...  It made me smile.   

Oh how I miss those days.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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15 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

All I know is what these fellows were told.  Nobody, I reckon, certainly not me has any inside information 

I don't doubt that what you posted is what those schools want to happen.  I doubt that it's actually going to happen without some further paradigm shift that isn't on the obvious current horizon.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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21 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Oh shit yeah I forgot about Colorado. They were bad at Folsom for sure.  Mizzou fans in Columbia were also surprisingly bad.

Mizzou was weird.  They were arrogant and aloof, but not particularly engaged or hostile.  They are such a terrible fit in the SEC and completely irrelevant.

It's unfortunate, because Columbia is a nice town, and a good time.  They really belong in a Midwest/Plains based league.

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89Horn

89Horn 1,735

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Mizzou was weird.  They were arrogant and aloof, but not particularly engaged or hostile.  They are such a terrible fit in the SEC and completely irrelevant.

It's unfortunate, because Columbia is a nice town, and a good time.  They really belong in a Midwest/Plains based league.

My favorite experience was in 2008 in Austin.  No. 1 Texas v No. 11 Mizzou.  About 6 or 7 Mizzou frat looking students had seats about five rows in front of us.  Came in yelling to the crowd how they were going to kick our asses and worse.  Talking shit nonstop for about 15 minutes before the game started.  Game starts, Texas scores.  Then again, and again, and again. At 28-0 just into the second quarter, half of them get up and leave.  At 35-0, just before half time the others remaining get up and leave.  None of them returned for the second half.

The shit they all got while quietly walking with heads down to the exit ramp was glorious.

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Hate

Hate 20,232

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On 12/1/2021 at 8:22 PM, cochamps said:

Do they have fans that travel?

 

On 12/1/2021 at 8:28 PM, JimmyJames said:

Exactly those people don’t exist. If there’s a CU fan at a bowl game in Dallas it’s because they already live in Dallas. 

I ran into a few at the 2005 Big 12 Championship game in Houston.  They didn't really have much to say that day. 

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bullet 1,627

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Arkansas Little Rock, a non-football member of the Sun Belt is hitting the road for the Ohio Valley Conference in July.

UT Arlington, the other non-football member of the Sun Belt is supposedly looking around, maybe at Missouri Valley.  The 4 new Sun Belt members (James Madison and 3 CUSA schools) are supposed to announce they are joining in July 2022 this week.  Date was tentative before.   So some things are still happening in 2022.

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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5,739

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9 minutes ago, bullet said:

Bold, kind of like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute?

The SEC will probably be open to leaving  Thanksgiving weekend slots open for this game just like UGA/ Georgia Tech, Clemson/South Carolina,  and and Florida/FSU

It's Big 12 that will have to be willing to make it happen.   

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Okie State

Okie State 3,887

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I don't really see it as trying to punish them. Why would they give a shit if the game ended? It's the most lopsided rivalry in college football and their fans have said for years we aren't even a rival.

I don't really care if the game is played or not. I can't imagine many people outside the state give two shits about it. I get that many will say we need the exposure going forward, but I'm not sure I buy that. Schedule a home and home with a different SEC team if that's important.

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TrashMaster G

TrashMaster G 18,030

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On 12/1/2021 at 3:14 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

Upper Midwest, baby.

The warmer the climate, the hotter the trim, and vice versa.

I visited U of Minn this fall. Shocking (in a good way) amount of quality trim walking around that campus.  I mean truly inspiring. 

 

On 12/2/2021 at 12:50 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

WVU fans are fucking awesome in real life.

Absolutely this.  Had the best road game experience of my life in Morgantown. Every single interaction with WVU fans was awesome.  Included several hours of pre and post-game tailgates with tons of free food and alcohol.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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8 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

I visited U of Minn this fall. Shocking (in a good way) amount of quality trim walking around that campus.  I mean truly inspiring. 

 

Absolutely this.  Had the best road game experience of my life in Morgantown. Every single interaction with WVU fans was awesome.  Included several hours of pre and post-game tailgates with tons of free food and alcohol.

The only major college I've been to that wasn't teeming with hot chicks was Nebraska back in 2007.  I went to a concert in Lincoln about 5 years ago, and there was plenty to look at.

Maybe I'm just getting old and pervy.

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 11,031

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On 12/2/2021 at 12:50 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

WVU fans are fucking awesome in real life.

I had the opposite reaction to Morgantown. They were by far the worst of the current B12 with the exception of ISU and KSU which I haven't been to but seem great.

 

We were there for WVU's first B12 game which happened to be their homecoming and we were on the tram to the game when the announcer asked if any of the 50ish people on the bus were WVU alums and literally none of them raised their hands. After that in our section we were the only BU people so we naturally wanted to talk to our new friends and nobody around us really seemed to care too much about WVU. They all wanted to talk about Steelers vs Cowboys since we were from Texas. The entire crowd felt like NFL tailored jersey land and super different culturally than the rest of the B12. They weren't rude or anything though.

 

We got wasted in Pittsburgh the night before in the South Side bar district and we had a ton of Pitt guys come up to us in our Baylor gear to talk about the game the next day. We left wishing we had Pitt instead of WVU in the B12.

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utee94

utee94 16,066

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9 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

haven't been to texags or secrant yet, but no doubt aggy will claim this was just another ploy to keep the sleeping giant down

I never go to either of those shithole sites, but my guess is that this will be their spin:

"The SEC never needed an exit penalty, until they began discussions with the evil t-sip conference-destroyers, and decided they better get some protection before adding tee ewe to the conference."

 

 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12,612

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27 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I had the opposite reaction to Morgantown. They were by far the worst of the current B12 with the exception of ISU and KSU which I haven't been to but seem great.

 

We were there for WVU's first B12 game which happened to be their homecoming and we were on the tram to the game when the announcer asked if any of the 50ish people on the bus were WVU alums and literally none of them raised their hands. After that in our section we were the only BU people so we naturally wanted to talk to our new friends and nobody around us really seemed to care too much about WVU. They all wanted to talk about Steelers vs Cowboys since we were from Texas. The entire crowd felt like NFL tailored jersey land and super different culturally than the rest of the B12. They weren't rude or anything though.

 

We got wasted in Pittsburgh the night before in the South Side bar district and we had a ton of Pitt guys come up to us in our Baylor gear to talk about the game the next day. We left wishing we had Pitt instead of WVU in the B12.

I didn't get that vibe one bit.  Everyone I met was a passionate college football first fan that was ecstatic to be away from the east coast "college sports are an afterthought" crowd and excited about being in a conference where all the other schools cared about football a lot.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,543

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https://gocoogs.com/big-12-contract/?fbclid=IwAR1dIjFBT5XTXdtIzF8CnwIgQo3qtQYuXDuc3NMxbdhWXQ782vC4IYBzdAs

 

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The University of Houston signed an agreement to join the Big 12 on September 10, 2021. That same day, GoCoogs.com requested all contracts between the University and the Big 12, wanting to understand what UH agreed to and what the school’s financial obligations are to the conference.

The University did not object to our request but refused to share the Big 12 contract based on “third-party privacy and proprietary interests.” UH’s general counsel asked the Attorney General’s office to decide if the Big 12 could prevent the release of the documents. By law, the conference was given two weeks to state their objections. We wrote about that in late September.

 

Quote

Sure enough, the Big 12 responded on October 4 with a few issues which were redacted when sent to GoCoogs:

The Big 12’s response required the AG to rule on the matter within 45 business days of receiving all documentation. On December 16, the State sent a letter stating that UH could withhold limited information due to competitive harm to the Big 12 but must release most of the agreement.

UH sent GoCoogs the information today

 

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The contract, called an admission agreement by the Big 12, says all terms and conditions and “any oral or written information exchanged in connection with the preparation of this Agreement” are confidential. Despite the confidentiality, there is little in the way of breaking news – surely nothing that required four months of wrangling – except for a line or two that are redacted. There are, however, a few interesting tidbits:

 

Spoiler

– Houston will join on July 1, 2024, or an earlier date agreed upon by UH and the conference. The school will be bound to a “grant of rights” (for broadcast, bowl, and NCAA revenues) beginning that day.

– UH deposited $2,500,000 with the conference upon execution of the agreement. The conference put it in a money market account, and UH will recover its earnings upon entering the league.

– Beginning on July 1, 2025, Houston will participate fully in conference revenue distribution. This is where the contract is redacted:

big-12-conference-distributions.png?ssl=

 

The day that full revenue distribution begins for UH is the same as the current grant of rights (GOR) for the Big 12 ends.

This means UH (and likely Cincinnati, UCF, and BYU) will not receive a full distribution for at least the first year. In all likelihood, Houston will not receive any conference revenue until the current GOR ends even if UH enters the league next summer. Texas and Oklahoma are bound to the Big 12’s grant of rights (GOR) through 7/1/2025, and unless an early separation agreement is signed, they will be due their full shares.

Because the conference is negotiating with UT and OU, it appears the State agreed that sharing revenue distribution information before 7/1/2025 “would cause substantial competitive harm.” If the two schools leave early, the remaining Big 12 schools will share their exit fees (the remaining amount owed in the GOR). The four new schools will have no claim to that.

– The agreement insists that UH “made the initial contact with the Big 12 about becoming a Member of the Conference and that the Conference did not contact UH about becoming a member.” This clause is directly due to Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby sending ESPN a cease and desist letter, accusing the network and other conferences of meddling in Big 12 affairs. Bowlsby did not want the American Athletic Conference to have a similar claim about the Big 12.

– The admission agreement was just five pages but including the supplemental documentation – the conference’s bylaws, rules, grant of rights and amendments, and the conference members’ signature pages – the document was 95 pages.

– The copy of the 2019 grant of rights amendment shared with UH shows that nine schools executed the amendment while two did not, Texas and OU. OU signed a consent to the amendment, but UT did not.

no-ut-signature.jpg?ssl=1

 

It seems that the Big 12 had prior information about Texas and Oklahoma not wanting to tether themselves to the GOR completely. Both executed the previous Grant of Rights (2012).

The final page of the agreement was wiring instructions from UH to the Big 12’s bank account and included the league’s banking account number.

 

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