Realignment talk not going away

[kopp0e 1135]

4 hours ago, JWinTX said:

The Pac-12 GOR expire at the end of 2023, while the Big 12 expires in June of 2025.

I think the way this goes is that the Pac-12 gets a new deal with the idea that behind the scenes, the networks know the Pac will get the Texomakan 6 and move to be the Pac-18. Three time zones, big names in Texas, OU, and KU (hoops), and Pac gets two AAU institutions in UT and KU. It also keeps the lawsuits from Baylor from really ever getting off the ground because they were not invited, most likely because of religious reasons (see BYU) that don't mesh with the liberal views of the West Coast.

Iowa State and WVU join the AAC, while TCU and Baylor join the MWC.  

Incorrect...

GoR's by conference:

B1G - 2023 - Will get the chance to "set the bar" or at least, "hope to catch up (somewhat) with SEC pay" in 2023...
PAC - 2024 - The most unstable league, as USC/ UCLA trail Texas & OU by about $20 million per year in tv revenue...
XII - 2025 - With GoR's ending just within a 12 moth span of PAC, XII has chance to add the best PAC brands to XII...
SEC - 2035 - Already with increase in going all in with ESPN (leaving CBS), payments to $65 million starting in 2023...
ACC - 2037 - Well, at least the conference doesn't need to hope for another league to be gutted, to save ACC (until 2037)...

[Hurtlocker 2213]

47 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Incorrect...

GoR's by conference:

B1G - 2023 - Will get the chance to "set the bar" or at least, "hope to catch up (somewhat) with SEC pay" in 2023...
PAC - 2024 - The most unstable league, as USC/ UCLA trail Texas & OU by about $20 million per year in tv revenue...
XII - 2025 - With GoR's ending just within a 12 moth span of PAC, XII has chance to add the best PAC brands to XII...
SEC - 2035 - Already with increase in going all in with ESPN (leaving CBS), payments to $65 million starting in 2023...
ACC - 2037 - Well, at least the conference doesn't need to hope for another league to be gutted, to save ACC (until 2037)...

The B1G's grant of rights is far longer than 2023.   Its in the 2030s for BTN, like the SEC and ACC have for their channels.   What comes due in 2023 is their T1 and T2 rights with Disney/Fox.   

[Poolflood 845]

8 hours ago, JWinTX said:

The Pac-12 GOR expire at the end of 2023, while the Big 12 expires in June of 2025.

I think the way this goes is that the Pac-12 gets a new deal with the idea that behind the scenes, the networks know the Pac will get the Texomakan 6 and move to be the Pac-18. Three time zones, big names in Texas, OU, and KU (hoops), and Pac gets two AAU institutions in UT and KU. It also keeps the lawsuits from Baylor from really ever getting off the ground because they were not invited, most likely because of religious reasons (see BYU) that don't mesh with the liberal views of the West Coast.

Iowa State and WVU join the AAC, while TCU and Baylor join the MWC.  

Would not baylor be the Harvey Weinstein of any conference? 

[tonedeaf 56]

19 hours ago, JWinTX said:

The Pac-12 GOR expire at the end of 2023, while the Big 12 expires in June of 2025.

I think the way this goes is that the Pac-12 gets a new deal with the idea that behind the scenes, the networks know the Pac will get the Texomakan 6 and move to be the Pac-18. Three time zones, big names in Texas, OU, and KU (hoops), and Pac gets two AAU institutions in UT and KU. It also keeps the lawsuits from Baylor from really ever getting off the ground because they were not invited, most likely because of religious reasons (see BYU) that don't mesh with the liberal views of the West Coast.

Iowa State and WVU join the AAC, while TCU and Baylor join the MWC.  

First of all, please stop referring to baylor is a religious school.  The only God they worship is the one you fold up and put in your wallet.  They mention the Bible only when it fits their narrative.  Secondly, I have it on good authority that they are trying to get the Bible changed from " Jesus and the 12 disciples" to "Jesus and his legal defense team".  That is more in line with their mission.  These motherfuckers had no sympathy for the 4 teams that got left behind when the B12 formed.  As a matter of fact they had no problems rubbing their nose in it.  Not very Christian like to me.  They need their ass kicked to the curb.  Serves 'em right.  They bring nothing to the table other than rape and scandal. Biggest hypocrites on the planet.  We have lawyers too.  Fuck'em.  

[JWinTX 53]

2 hours ago, tonedeaf said:

First of all, please stop referring to baylor is a religious school.  The only God they worship is the one you fold up and put in your wallet.  They mention the Bible only when it fits their narrative.  Secondly, I have it on good authority that they are trying to get the Bible changed from " Jesus and the 12 disciples" to "Jesus and his legal defense team".  That is more in line with their mission.  These motherfuckers had no sympathy for the 4 teams that got left behind when the B12 formed.  As a matter of fact they had no problems rubbing their nose in it.  Not very Christian like to me.  They need their ass kicked to the curb.  Serves 'em right.  They bring nothing to the table other than rape and scandal. Biggest hypocrites on the planet.  We have lawyers too.  Fuck'em.  

I can't refute any of this...well said.

I figure the Pac name carries a lot of weight with the media and the B1G. Assuming so, the easiest path forward for keeping that name and all that goes with it is to have the Pac be used as a conduit to get the Pac the better programs in the CST from the Big XII, while really bumping up the cash to be on par with the B1G and SEC. The Pac doesn't have any programs that are terrible brands to networks--the Big 12 basically has two in Baylor and TCU, two small religious schools with small alumni bases, small stadiums, and small followings. Put it this way, when Texas or OU play Stanford or USC, its basically a national game, not a regional one like it is with those two Texas privates.

I can see a scenario where a Pac 18 would take ISU over KSU, rather easily, but I don't know if that even matters to the Pac if it got them the Texoma Four. Assuming it does matter, I have zero doubt that ISU has more to bring to the Pac than KSU, except for distance and not having an in-state team to travel with, which seems to matter to the Pac more than other leagues. But I would love a conference that looked like this:

Wash/WSU  Oregon/OSU   Cal/Stanford

USC/UCLA   Arizona/ASU   Texas/Tech

Utah/CU       OU/OSU            KU/ISU

Gives the Pac 3 AAU programs for research, gives the conference three time zones to control and sell to networks, and can still keep geographic rivalries at a premium.

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

Why does anyone keep acting like the Pac is in the situation of power here?

If these leagues have any kind of merger, it's going to be on the Big 12's terms.  I hope that means Baylor getting shitcanned, but I highly doubt it.

[tonedeaf 56]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Why does anyone keep acting like the Pac is in the situation of power here?

If these leagues have any kind of merger, it's going to be on the Big 12's terms.  I hope that means Baylor getting shitcanned, but I highly doubt it.

Al, you're a good guy and I for one enjoy our relationship with ISU.  Good folks.  But I think the PAC is more powerful than you think.  They not keeping up in the money, but they have some brand names.  If there is a merger, they will have a strong say in the matter.  They were adamant about not wanting baylor 10 years ago and baylor has done nothing since that time to make themselves more attractive.  Just my opinion, FWIW. 😉

[JWinTX 53]

34 minutes ago, tonedeaf said:

Al, you're a good guy and I for one enjoy our relationship with ISU.  Good folks.  But I think the PAC is more powerful than you think.  They not keeping up in the money, but they have some brand names.  If there is a merger, they will have a strong say in the matter.  They were adamant about not wanting baylor 10 years ago and baylor has done nothing since that time to make themselves more attractive.  Just my opinion, FWIW. 😉

This...

[BluTechsan 393]

Realignment Talk Not Going Away

This has been done on other sites and I even administered one on the old “Fans Only” Big12 site. 

For fun (quarantine time killer), would anyone be interested in doing a mock draft for football teams/conferences?

We would need a league president, and X number of commissioners.

I personally would prefer an 80 team league made up of 8 conferences with 10 teams.

I also think each conference should have a pair of traditional rivals as anchors. (tOSU/Mich, UAB/Bama, etc etc)

I would volunteer to be league prez but I think I’d rather be one of the commissioners.

So any takers?

Thoughts on league size and format (divisions, round robin, ccgs)?

The top 10 traditional rivalries? 

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

1 hour ago, tonedeaf said:

Al, you're a good guy and I for one enjoy our relationship with ISU.  Good folks.  But I think the PAC is more powerful than you think.  They not keeping up in the money, but they have some brand names.  If there is a merger, they will have a strong say in the matter.  They were adamant about not wanting baylor 10 years ago and baylor has done nothing since that time to make themselves more attractive.  Just my opinion, FWIW. 😉

They weren't the league rife with public discord 10 years ago, the way the Big 12 was.

The position of the Big 12 and Pac 12 has changed, dramatically.  The money gap isn't an accident, it's a reflection of value.  Right now, the Pac 12 is the league who is lagging financially.  They can't dictate anything to the Big 12 unless that somehow flips in the next 3 years, and if anything, the current gap is going to get wider.  USC made less than ISU last year.  They had lower attendance, too.  That is absolutely insane given the disparity in brand power and historic sense.  When a league's bluest blue blood is making less than we (we being ISU) are, that league isn't in a place to dictate much of anything.

[2300 Nueces 163]

The PAC has been completely mismanaged.  It doesn't matter the name on the sign.  In the real world, losers get divided and consumed.  If they want to hang out as academic institutions, great.  They won't be hanging around in Power 4 football in a few years.  Most of the schools in the PAC are on par with Rice.  Rice is a great school but not for football.  The PAC, if it stays intact without changes, will be earning the same revenue as the AAC schools.  The PAC is ripe for a hostile takeover.

[notre dame joe 195]

5 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Why does anyone keep acting like the Pac is in the situation of power here?

If these leagues have any kind of merger, it's going to be on the Big 12's terms.  I hope that means Baylor getting shitcanned, but I highly doubt it.

the PAC has a ton of money, it's just not in Athletics.  When the silicon valley folks are old enough to think about building monuments honoring themselves, their only logical choice is at PAC Universities; who 40 years later will protest and rename said monuments. 

[2300 Nueces 163]

30 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

the PAC has a ton of money, it's just not in Athletics.  When the silicon valley folks are old enough to think about building monuments honoring themselves, their only logical choice is at PAC Universities; who 40 years later will protest and rename said monuments. 

How does this relate to selling widgets?  It's all about advertising.  No one watches Stanford and Cal.  If I want to see a doco about Bill Gates, I'll watch the history channel.  Texas is crazy for not going to the SEC.  I can't stand this elitist snobbery.

Edited April 2, 2020 by 2300 Nueces

[kopp0e 1135]

5 hours ago, 2300 Nueces said:

The PAC has been completely mismanaged.  It doesn't matter the name on the sign.  In the real world, losers get divided and consumed.  If they want to hang out as academic institutions, great.  They won't be hanging around in Power 4 football in a few years.  Most of the schools in the PAC are on par with Rice.  Rice is a great school but not for football.  The PAC, if it stays intact without changes, will be earning the same revenue as the AAC schools.  The PAC is ripe for a hostile takeover.

I came across a pretty big (potentially) piece of info on the Texas Platnum podcast:

Around the 6:45 minute mark, talk is of XII having already put out feelers to PAC schools & those schools have interest in joining XII too...

[Poolflood 845]

7 hours ago, tonedeaf said:

Al, you're a good guy and I for one enjoy our relationship with ISU.  Good folks.  But I think the PAC is more powerful than you think.  They not keeping up in the money, but they have some brand names.  If there is a merger, they will have a strong say in the matter.  They were adamant about not wanting baylor 10 years ago and baylor has done nothing since that time to make themselves more attractive.  Just my opinion, FWIW. 😉

Money talks and pac bullshit walks.  Pac has power.... wait, let's rephrase that USC has power...  then there's the other teams...

[Thiefery 5017]

I agree with Al..  we all make fun of the Pac conference because it seems like nobody cares.. it's CCG is on a Friday evening with hundreds of fans in attendance.  Is ESPN going to bail out the Pac by giving out a LHN deal to SC to keep them in place there?  Doubt it.  Oregon St?  Washington St?  Hell Cal can get lost but every CA insider says the other schools follow it's lead so they come no matter what.. I say, throw a boatload of money as SC and see what happens.  I know the AZ schools would bolt, especially if SC is coming.  From there, let Cal and Stanford pick between being cool nerds or understanding realignment is for Sports only and they can still be friends with other AAU members despite being in different conferences.

[tonedeaf 56]

17 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

They weren't the league rife with public discord 10 years ago, the way the Big 12 was.

The position of the Big 12 and Pac 12 has changed, dramatically.  The money gap isn't an accident, it's a reflection of value.  Right now, the Pac 12 is the league who is lagging financially.  They can't dictate anything to the Big 12 unless that somehow flips in the next 3 years, and if anything, the current gap is going to get wider.  USC made less than ISU last year.  They had lower attendance, too.  That is absolutely insane given the disparity in brand power and historic sense.  When a league's bluest blue blood is making less than we (we being ISU) are, that league isn't in a place to dictate much of anything.

OK.  I have no issues with your reasoning, but if you think the PAC is going to come begging the B12 to save them,  I think you are mistaken.  I have no idea why USC's attendance was lower than ISU's.  Don't sell yourself short.  Could it be that ISU was having a good season while USC was struggling?  Don't know.  Fan perception of a "good" season varies. There is a shit-ton of things to do in southern California if you don't want to go to the games.  Probably a little less in Iowa.  Will the B10 come in to play for USC?  Will they go independent in football?  Will ISU accept if the Big comes calling?  Texas and OU to the SEC?    I have no idea what will play out, but it will be interesting.  

Everybody stay safe.  

[utee94 15852]

4 minutes ago, tonedeaf said:

OK.  I have no issues with your reasoning, but if you think the PAC is going to come begging the B12 to save them,  I think you are mistaken.  I have no idea why USC's attendance was lower than ISU's.  Don't sell yourself short.  Could it be that ISU was having a good season while USC was struggling?  Don't know.  Fan perception of a "good" season varies. There is a shit-ton of things to do in southern California if you don't want to go to the games.  Probably a little less in Iowa.  Will the B10 come in to play for USC?  Will they go independent in football?  Will ISU accept if the Big comes calling?  Texas and OU to the SEC?    I have no idea what will play out, but it will be interesting.  

Everybody stay safe.  

Nobody thinks the PAC is going to come to the B12 begging to be saved.  Some folks think USC might bail on the PAC and look elsewhere.  Its only two realistic options are the B1G and the B12.  It is all just message board speculation of course, and I doubt anything ever comes of it.

Stay safe as well! 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

14 minutes ago, tonedeaf said:

OK.  I have no issues with your reasoning, but if you think the PAC is going to come begging the B12 to save them,  I think you are mistaken.  I have no idea why USC's attendance was lower than ISU's.  Don't sell yourself short.  Could it be that ISU was having a good season while USC was struggling?  Don't know.  Fan perception of a "good" season varies. There is a shit-ton of things to do in southern California if you don't want to go to the games.  Probably a little less in Iowa.  Will the B10 come in to play for USC?  Will they go independent in football?  Will ISU accept if the Big comes calling?  Texas and OU to the SEC?    I have no idea what will play out, but it will be interesting.  

Everybody stay safe.  

I don't think the Pac is going to come to the Big 12 to save them.  I just think that if there are any changes among league membership between said leagues, it will be Pac schools going east, and not vice versa, because the Pac 12 has nothing to offer anyone in the Big 12.

I think the only way ISU would leave is if we had to (IE everything was crumbling again and we had a life boat).  ISU fans and admins want to continue to play as many of our historic opponents as possible.  The Big 8/original Big 12 was the best fit for ISU as Iowa is more of a Plains state than a Rust Belt state, and those were all close road trips.  The only way I'd want to see ISU anywhere else is if the whole thing was blowing up, and we were moving with other Big 8 schools.

[SnowAggy 154]

16 hours ago, 2300 Nueces said:

How does this relate to selling widgets?  It's all about advertising.  No one watches Stanford and Cal.  If I want to see a doco about Bill Gates, I'll watch the history channel.  Texas is crazy for not going to the SEC.  I can't stand this elitist snobbery.

This is an excellent question.  I don't know the answer... but it does seem far out that academically / athletically rich and powerful institutions like SC and Stanford could be in as weak of positions as some of these reports say they are.  Major college football (athletics) is just a really weird animal.  Where else does a giant not for profit enterprise converge with an off the charts for profit enterprise as in P5 football?  I mean, besides the US House of Representatives...

PS It fucking snowed here last night.

Edited April 3, 2020 by SnowAggy

[2300 Nueces 163]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't think the Pac is going to come to the Big 12 to save them.  I just think that if there are any changes among league membership between said leagues, it will be Pac schools going east, and not vice versa, because the Pac 12 has nothing to offer anyone in the Big 12.

I think the only way ISU would leave is if we had to (IE everything was crumbling again and we had a life boat).  ISU fans and admins want to continue to play as many of our historic opponents as possible.  The Big 8/original Big 12 was the best fit for ISU as Iowa is more of a Plains state than a Rust Belt state, and those were all close road trips.  The only way I'd want to see ISU anywhere else is if the whole thing was blowing up, and we were moving with other Big 8 schools.

I think the Pac does have something to offer the B12.  They have some historic programs that have been run into the ground.  A takeover by the B12 will breathe life into these programs by offering legitimate administrative leadership which will improve their play and ratings which will be a revenue + for all.  They need to shed the leadership currently turning them into the Ivy League.

Edited April 3, 2020 by 2300 Nueces

[Big Frog II 511]

The Pac-12 has great schools, but I wonder how many of them are currently putting an emphasis on athletics as much as the Big 12 schools do?  They are also at a disadvantage being located in the Pacific time zone as well as a population that is not nearly enamored with college sports as we are in this region.  Those reasons and years of poor leadership has caused the Pac-12 to operate in a far less powerful position than before.

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

44 minutes ago, 2300 Nueces said:

I think the Pac does have something to offer the B12.  They have some historic programs that have been run into the ground.  A takeover by the B12 will breathe life into these programs by offering legitimate administrative leadership which will improve their play and ratings which will be a revenue + for all.  They need to shed the leadership currently turning them into the Ivy League.

What I mean by "the Pac 12 has nothing to offer anyone in the Big 12", is that there is nothing (money, stability, etc) that they could do a better job of providing current Big 12 schools than the Big 12 does.

There's absolutely value within the Pac 12 for the Big 12.

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

1 hour ago, SnowAggy said:

This is an excellent question.  I don't know the answer... but it does seem far out that academically / athletically rich and powerful institutions like SC and Stanford could be in as weak of positions as some of these reports say they are.  Major college football (athletics) is just a really weird animal.  Where else does a giant not for profit enterprise converge with an off the charts for profit enterprise as in P5 football?  I mean, besides the US House of Representatives...

PS It fucking snowed here last night.

What?

I'm way up on the Minnesota border and we saw nothing.  Hell, I took the dog out to piss about 3AM and was comfortable in gym shorts.  It's sleeting now, but that shouldn't amount to much.

[SnowAggy 154]

21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What?

I'm way up on the Minnesota border and we saw nothing.  Hell, I took the dog out to piss about 3AM and was comfortable in gym shorts.  It's sleeting now, but that shouldn't amount to much.

Was a skiff overnight here in the Siouxer...still hovering around freezing.  Started out as ice.  My cousins in Austin love to bitch about the heat but I'd take it ten times out of ten over ice and snow past April 1st (or fucking March 1st).  This is horseshit.

Edited April 3, 2020 by SnowAggy

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

20 hours ago, 2300 Nueces said:

The PAC has been completely mismanaged.  It doesn't matter the name on the sign.  In the real world, losers get divided and consumed.  If they want to hang out as academic institutions, great.  They won't be hanging around in Power 4 football in a few years.  Most of the schools in the PAC are on par with Rice.  Rice is a great school but not for football.  The PAC, if it stays intact without changes, will be earning the same revenue as the AAC schools.  The PAC is ripe for a hostile takeover.

the Pac-12's weakness is that its weakest programs (Cal, post-Leach Washington State and Oregon State-- Oregon would be on that list too if not for Phil Knight) don't have nearly as much money to invest as the weakest programs in the Big Ten (Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland). 

Purdue is never going to be Penn State but they can invest in their facilities and pay to keep their head coach. That shores up the bottom of the Big Ten, it keeps the Big Ten's relative top-to-bottom strength from getting too out of shape; the Big Ten is going to end up with fourteen programs that can reasonably expect to be in a bowl game every year (they won't get 14 bowl bids, but they'll have 14 programs that go into each season either expecting to go to a bowl or change coaches). The Pac-12 will end up with real detritus at the bottom if current financial trends continue, programs that can't invest to attract and keep winning coaches. 

 

[Loose Stool 112]

6 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

the Pac-12's weakness is that its weakest programs (Cal, post-Leach Washington State and Oregon State-- Oregon would be on that list too if not for Phil Knight) don't have nearly as much money to invest as the weakest programs in the Big Ten (Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland). 

Add Colorado to that list.  It was a shit show recently with losing their coach...

[kopp0e 1135]

As noted, USC president was at North Carolina as ACCN was formed with ESPN...

Likewise, USC athletic director was at Colorado during XII years, can be a bridge... 

Texas keeping Texas Tech/ TCU, Oklahoma keeping Oklahoma State, Kansas keeping Kansas State, Iowa State remaining, make a solid east...
Washington & Oregon remaining, USC keeps California & UCLA, Arizona keeps Arizona State, & Colorado returning as well, make a solid west...

[kopp0e 1135]

[LTtxfan 49331]

Covid-19 may destroy the NCAA if no CFB is played next Fall or Winter 2021...

Heard talk on sports radio last week that now is definitely an opportunity for P5 AD's to come up with a new structure:  All of the P5 conferences could each have 14 Teams, agree to uniform scheduling rules,  and accept an 8 Team playoff system. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by LTtxfan

[trza-hawk 269]

Do you guys remember that meme with the school mascot animal outside a window, looking in? Seems kinds appropriate right now.

[utee94 15852]

8 hours ago, trza-hawk said:

Do you guys remember that meme with the school mascot animal outside a window, looking in? Seems kinds appropriate right now.

And thus, the window-trojan meme was born...? 

 

[hiphopfroggy 121]

Mountain West Conference




Northwest

Washington St
Oregon St
Boise St
Utah St

Pacific

Hawaii
San Diego St
San Jose St
Fresno St

Central

Utah
BYU
Nevada
UNLV

East

New Mexico
Colorado St
Air Force
Wyoming 

---

•  

 

[hiphopfroggy 121]

B1G





West

Nebraska
Colorado
Iowa
Iowa St


North

Wisconsin
Minnesota 
Illinois 
Northwestern



Central

Michigan
Michigan St
Indiana 
Purdue



East


Ohio St
Penn St
Maryland
Rutgers

[hiphopfroggy 121]

Big 16








Northwest

Washington
Oregon
Cal
Stanford 



Southwest

USC
UCLA
Arizona St
Arizona



Lone Star

UT
TCU
TT
BU




Plains

OU
OK St
Kansas
Kansas St

[hiphopfroggy 121]

ACC




North

ND
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College 




Mid Atlantic

WVU
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville 



Carolinas


UNC
NC St
Duke
Wake 




South 


Clemson
Florida St
Miami
Georgia Tech

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, hiphopfroggy said:

B1G





West

Nebraska
Colorado
Iowa
Iowa St


North

Wisconsin
Minnesota 
Illinois 
Northwestern



Central

Michigan
Michigan St
Indiana 
Purdue



East


Ohio St
Penn St
Maryland
Rutgers

Rutgers? Maryland? In the Big Ten???? Come ON man

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, hiphopfroggy said:

Mid Atlantic

WVU
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville 

Can't we bring back the old "Mideast" name for this? The NCAAs used to have a "Mideast" region, let's bring that back

[hiphopfroggy 121]

7 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Can't we bring back the old "Mideast" name for this? The NCAAs used to have a "Mideast" region, let's bring that back

 

 

Nice recall, Mideast would be perfect considering UL and WVU. Unfortunately it would not let me edit. 

[Thiefery 5017]

Anyway we can swap Tulane for Baylor in the Lonestar division?

[TeddyBearStallion 73]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:17 AM, 2300 Nueces said:

I think the Pac does have something to offer the B12.  They have some historic programs that have been run into the ground.  A takeover by the B12 will breathe life into these programs by offering legitimate administrative leadership which will improve their play and ratings which will be a revenue + for all.  They need to shed the leadership currently turning them into the Ivy League.

Are you implying that the Big 12 provides competent administrative leadership? LOL

On 4/4/2020 at 8:41 PM, LTtxfan said:

Covid-19 may destroy the NCAA if no CFB is played next Fall or Winter 2021...

Heard talk on sports radio last week that now is definitely an opportunity for P5 AD's to come up with a new structure:  All of the P5 conferences could each have 14 Teams, agree to uniform scheduling rules,  and accept an 8 Team playoff system. 

 

 

They would need to dump off the dead weight and promote programs of value in order to make it viable.  

[Thiefery 5017]

Yeah, I still don't understand how it's a great thing for a school like Michigan to be getting the same TV money as Purdue.

[Ace000087 18]

On 3/29/2020 at 9:32 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

We are more worthy of P5 inclusion than half the Pac 12.

If that guy thinks Oregon State and their 30,000 fans keep a seat at the table, while Iowa State, an AAU school, that made more money than USC last year, and averaged better football attendance than all but one Pac 12 school is getting the boot, he's absolutely ignorant of the reality of modern college athletics.  This isn't 1994.

Exactly... Obviously a biased viewpoint here, but ISU brings more to the table than most give them credit for.  

[nineliveslost 2794]

I want ISU in the conference and you will have to pry them from my cold dead Big 12 hands. Those crazy guys fit well in the conference... But fuck Baylor

 

[JFKFC 4891]

14 minutes ago, Ace000087 said:

Exactly... Obviously a biased viewpoint here, but ISU brings more to the table than most give them credit for.  

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Did I miss this getting posted?

Weekend Hot Clicks: What if the Power 5 Split From the FBS?

Quote

Power 5 Split

Six years after the NCAA Division-I Board of Directors voted to allow schools in the Power 5 conference to write many of their own rules (i.e. Power 5 autonomy), we're still asking the question: Would the Power 5 split from the rest of the FBS?

“Is there a potential out there for the top-tier Power 5 schools to break off and do their own thing, and what might be perceived as a lower-tier Power 5 group sustain with everybody else?” Louisiana athletics director Bryan Maggard asked himself last year. “I think anything’s possible."

What if that happened today? If Power 5 proker brokers announced the split today and unleashed a firestorm of realignment that resulted in three subdivisions: Power 5, Group of Six and the FCS.

I mapped it out with, among other things, Big 12 and Pac-12 expansion, and the creation of Jason Aldean’s Flyover States Conference, your new favorite cornucopia of MAC, Big Sky and Missouri Valley teams.

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Pac-12’s Problems

John Canzano of The Oregonian has done a marvelous job of chronicling the Pac-12 financial problems over the last several years as the conference is left in the dust trails of other Power 5 conferences. And as conferences juggle revenue gaps from coronavirus cancellations, Canzano re-asked a confounding question: Why is the Pac-12 spending millions of dollars ($6.9 million in rent last year plus another $11.7 million in deferred rent) to rent 113,000 square feet of glitzy office space in downtown San Francisco?

“None of the Pac-12 Conference member institutions are located in downtown San Francisco. Staff at the Pac-12 offices have to be paid more because of the high cost of living. And the theoretical advantages of being located within blocks of some high-profile tech companies hasn’t manifested itself in a single lucrative partnership.

“That downtown San Francisco location is a vanity play for a conference that can’t afford one. Which is why I’ve long wondered why the Pac-12 doesn’t just relocate to Salt Lake City, Phoenix or perhaps move to a less expensive Bay Area suburb. You know, like Morgan Hill, Calif. or something?”

Odds & Ends

 

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Per Above:

Canzano: Coronavirus makes now-empty Pac-12 Conference headquarters an expensive problem

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By John Canzano | The Oregonian/OregonLive

When freshly minted Pac-12 Conference commissioner Larry Scott dispatched a chief lieutenant years ago to help locate office space that would become the new conference headquarters, he asked for two Bay Area options.

One, in Oakland.

The other in the heart of downtown San Francisco in one of the most expensive real estate footprints on the planet.

“Larry wasn’t going to Oakland," an executive-team source said.

Scott directed Gary Stevenson to negotiate an 11-year lease with Kilroy Realty Corporation to secure two floors and 113,000 square feet of prime office space in downtown San Francisco. The deal cost the conference $6.9 million in rent last year and another $11.7 million in deferred rent.

Those offices sit mostly empty this week, amid a social-distancing mandate.

I couldn’t help but think about that glaring expense amid the COVID-19 outbreak. The NCAA announced some bad news on Thursday. It revealed the payment it would make to members would only be $225 million, down from $600 million that was budgeted before the cancellation of the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments.

Blame the pandemic. Its created a mess for a lot of businesses. But the financial shortfall created by the latest loss of revenue underscores what was already glaring issue for the conference even in the best of financial times.

Big Ten headquarters in Chicago will cost that conference less than $1.5 million this year. The SEC, which secured a sweetheart deal in Birmingham, Ala., pays only $1 annually in rent.

If I’m a member of the Pac-12′s CEO Group -- the presidents and chancellors of the 12 universities -- I have one question: Why are we still there?

None of the Pac-12 Conference member institutions are located in downtown San Francisco. Staff at the Pac-12 offices have to be paid more because of the high cost of living. And the theoretical advantages of being located within blocks of some high-profile tech companies hasn’t manifested itself in a single lucrative partnership.

That downtown San Francisco location is a vanity play for a conference that can’t afford one. Which is why I’ve long wondered why the Pac-12 doesn’t just relocate to Salt Lake City, Phoenix or perhaps move to a less expensive Bay Area suburb. You know, like Morgan Hill, Calif. or something?

Even Las Vegas as a Pac-12 headquarters location would make more sense given the enormous cost savings and number of conference championship events that feel destined to take place there. But the point is, when you’ve lost control of your revenue streams you’d better get in touch with your expenses.

That rent payment is a doozy.

All of college athletics is terrified by the financial fallout from coronavirus. University of Portland Athletic Director Scott Leykam told me on Thursday that he was bouncing from conference call to conference call, with everyone in the West Coast Conference trying to get a handle on what comes next.

“There is no manual for this one,” Leykam said.

That uncertainty played a role, no doubt, in UP deciding to retain flailing men’s basketball coach Terry Porter. He had one year remaining on his contract. Leykam is standing by Porter, essentially punting to next year.

“We don’t know if we start to ramp back up in four weeks? Eight weeks? Four months? Eight months?" Leykam said. “What does that mean for our 70 full-time staff? And how do we balance those expenses with no revenue coming back up against it?”

Those are questions the Pac-12 has to be asking itself, too.

So what happens with the Pac-12 Conference burns through its reserves?

The distributions from the NCAA help pay conference salaries, rent, and help keep the lights on. But when you’re shelling out $575,000 a month in rent plus logging another $975,000 a month in deferred rent, you wake up every day upside down.

It’s well known that the SEC and Big Ten generate significantly more income than the Pac-12 does for its members. A handful of Pac-12 universities (i.e. Arizona State, Oregon State, etc.) have become increasingly reliant on student fees to subsidize athletics. And now, given that we just don’t know how the coronavirus will impact future revenue streams, the Pac-12 is in crisis mode.

Get out of that lease.

Relocate the headquarters and the Pac-12 Networks studios somewhere less expensive.

Start there. Because those are things you can control.

I understand the Pac-12 executive team wanted to go to work near the Moscone Center, and mingle and network with tech executives over lunch. I know Pac-12 leadership wanted a modern, beautiful office space that it believed would help the brand. But that brand was long ago broken.

Headquarters now looks like a luxurious wasteland.

The Oregon media has been leading the "fuck this" charge for several years now

[TeddyBearStallion 73]

2 hours ago, Ace000087 said:

Exactly... Obviously a biased viewpoint here, but ISU brings more to the table than most give them credit for.  

I see ISU as a lucky Colordao St, as they were simply grandfathered in with the P5 despite lack of on-the-field merit.    They're not exactly dead weight since they do bring regional value, but in terms of national appeal, they aren't ,much different.  

 

I'd be fine with a P5 split as long as the few Independents and G5s (BYU, Boise State, UCF, etc)  that actually carry more of their weight and bring more value then much of the P5 are included (promoted) as they bring more to the table (in terms of interest and revenue) and the deadweight P5s (Rutgers, Wake Forrest, Oregon State, etc) are dropped down to G5.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by TeddyBearStallion

[tonedeaf 56]

2 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

I want ISU in the conference and you will have to pry them from my cold dead Big 12 hands. Those crazy guys fit well in the conference... But fuck Baylor

 

I agree, but be careful.  I made a derogatory post about baylor and got negged.  Go figure.  On a Texas board. 

[Hurtlocker 2213]

Little fun with numbers.   Here's the latest from the USAToday Database, comparing the Pac 12 with the Big 12 on several financial categories (USC/Stanford/TCU/Baylor not included due to being private:

Big 12/Pac 12	2017-18 Finances
Revenue Rank	School	Conference	Revenue	Expenses	Profit	School Support	% Support	Profit After Support
7	Oklahoma	Big 12	$175,325,500	$152,674,475	$22,651,025	$0	0.00%	$22,651,025
1	Texas	Big 12	$219,402,579	$206,554,432	$12,848,147	$0	0.00%	$12,848,147
50	Kansas State	Big 12	$86,911,309	$77,633,258	$9,278,051	$350,000	0.40%	$8,928,051
37	West Virginia	Big 12	$102,684,423	$91,807,281	$10,877,142	$4,107,003	4.00%	$6,770,139
26	Oregon	Pac-12	$122,541,827	$119,811,239	$2,730,588	$240,598	0.20%	$2,489,990
22	Washington	Pac-12	$130,919,331	$126,133,008	$4,786,323	$3,834,746	2.93%	$951,577
33	Kansas	Big 12	$106,307,326	$104,108,072	$2,199,254	$1,804,397	1.70%	$394,857
48	Oklahoma State	Big 12	$88,516,367	$88,228,667	$287,700	$89,466	0.10%	$198,234
47	Iowa State	Big 12	$88,753,664	$88,670,048	$83,616	$2,093,104	2.36%	($2,009,488)
21	UCLA	Pac-12	$130,960,560	$130,960,560	$0	$2,608,165	1.99%	($2,608,165)
46	Texas Tech	Big 12	$89,259,783	$88,948,721	$311,062	$3,334,854	3.74%	($3,023,792)
43	Utah	Pac-12	$91,386,593	$87,578,834	$3,807,759	$12,374,118	13.54%	($8,566,359)
45	Colorado	Pac-12	$89,581,544	$89,826,611	($245,067)	$12,338,945	13.77%	($12,584,012)
53	Washington State	Pac-12	$65,117,715	$73,775,035	($8,657,320)	$5,337,518	8.20%	($13,994,838)
51	Oregon State	Pac-12	$80,712,000	$88,600,330	($7,888,330)	$9,763,192	12.10%	($17,651,522)
44	California	Pac-12	$91,247,489	$110,558,630	($19,311,141)	$0	0.00%	($19,311,141)
41	Arizona	Pac-12	$95,867,717	$103,329,464	($7,461,747)	$12,463,914	13.00%	($19,925,661)
29	Arizona State	Pac-12	$113,636,755	$126,782,387	($13,145,632)	$20,611,739	18.14%	($33,757,371)

 

 

Big 12 Average			$119,645,119	$112,328,119	$7,317,000	$1,472,353	1.54%	$5,844,647
Pac 12 Average			$101,197,153	$105,735,610	($4,538,457)	$7,957,294	8.39%	($12,495,750)
Pac 12 v Big 12	Difference		($18,447,966)	($6,592,509)	($11,855,456)	$6,484,941	6.85%	($18,340,397)

The top half of the Pac 12 has more in common with the bottom half of the Big 12, when it comes to profit after subsidies.   So what if the Big 12 took the top half of the Pac 12 in this category (as opposed to total revenue) to make the Big 16?

Big 16 Average			$117,119,293	$111,764,247	$5,355,046	$3,321,184	3.44%	$2,033,862
Remaining Average			$89,316,335	$100,609,169	($11,292,834)	$9,635,273	10.29%	($20,928,107)
Remaining vs Big 16	Difference		($27,802,958)	($11,155,077)	($16,647,880)	$6,314,088	6.85%	($22,961,968)

Absorbing the top half (minus private schools in the calcs obviously) basically leaves the Big 12's averages the same, which is a pretty good add.   Ironically, this would not be the Arizona schools that everyone talks about.   Instead its USC, Washington, Oregon, UCLA, Utah, and Colorado.   Which, while ceding Phoenix, isn't the worst add in the world.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Hurtlocker