Realignment talk not going away

TexasMan · June 20, 2018

'stache · June 21, 2018

I disagree that expansion would not have happened had bama lost that game. It is and always has been about money. CCGs were inevitable regardless of outcomes. The current Big12 has no reason to have one, but we do because of the money. The thing that changed college football wasn’t any play but UGA and OUs Supreme Court win in the 80s over TV rights. The next big shift(s) will be the OBannon lawsuit and/or the death of cable as we currently know it.

Al_4_ISU · June 21, 2018

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I disagree that expansion would not have happened had bama lost that game. It is and always has been about money. CCGs were inevitable regardless of outcomes. The current Big12 has no reason to have one, but we do because of the money. The thing that changed college football wasn’t any play but UGA and OUs Supreme Court win in the 80s over TV rights. The next big shift(s) will be the OBannon lawsuit and/or the death of cable as we currently know it.

This is the biggest reason I think people who view conference alignment through the lens 2010-2011 are completely missing the boat. That was 100% driven by a model that relied on cable and forcing carriers to adopt conference networks. Going forward it's going to be driven by actual fan engagement.

Thiefery · June 21, 2018

29 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This is the biggest reason I think people who view conference alignment through the lens 2010-2011 are completely missing the boat. That was 100% driven by a model that relied on cable and forcing carriers to adopt conference networks. Going forward it's going to be driven by actual fan engagement.

The Sports networks that show events, coverage from Apps is the future maybe? I'm a die hard boxing fan as well and have noticed that the PPV avenue is dying. Now more promoters are creating subscription based apps to show their fights and inventory of fights. Hell they just showed a Championship WW match a couple weeks ago.

Let's say the LHN is dropped by ESPN in the future or they do a buy out agreement. Would Texas just use that as their 3rd tier sports network? Charge $5 a month for this app to it's fanbase (us)?

RowdyVic · June 21, 2018

The Sports networks that show events, coverage from Apps is the future maybe? I'm a die hard boxing fan as well and have noticed that the PPV avenue is dying. Now more promoters are creating subscription based apps to show their fights and inventory of fights. Hell they just showed a Championship WW match a couple weeks ago.
Let's say the LHN is dropped by ESPN in the future or they do a buy out agreement. Would Texas just use that as their 3rd tier sports network? Charge $5 a month for this app to it's fanbase (us)?

We would probably have to buy the entire network or buy the LHN rights in order to continue it. Either way we will find a way to get/keep some kind of network.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

RowdyVic · June 21, 2018

Interesting. I always assumed that the Cotton Bowl was that large due to the Cotton Bowl game and Red River.
I wonder if either would have been able to maintain a viable fanbase if they had remained in a power conference.

I think the death penalty and all of the ncaa probations is the cause for alot of SMU headaches. Rice and SMU had a hard time competing with the bigger schools in the SWC.

My guess for low enrollment is both are private schools and SMU is expensive.

So combine that with the ncaa violations, SMU was kicked to curb when the SWC/Big8 became the B12.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

'stache · June 21, 2018

Interesting. I always assumed that the Cotton Bowl was that large due to the Cotton Bowl game and Red River.
I wonder if either would have been able to maintain a viable fanbase if they had remained in a power conference.

I think it continued to expand some for just those two games. The last $50 renovation I think added seats and it was already inevitable that the Cotton Bowl game would move to Jerry World. The citizens were rightly angry and spending that much for a single game. But at the same time the voters turned down building Jerry World at Fair Park. I voted for it but it was difficult because the economics of cities subsidizing millionaire owners bothers the fuck out of me, but it’s reality and the alternative is the idiocy we have now, the Dallas Cowboys playing 45 minutes east of Dallas in a shitty suburb with all the traffic, parking, and lack of transit that goes with it.

utee94 · June 21, 2018

Yeah, the Cotton Bowl has continued to expand well after the Cowboys departed, even if it's only for a few games per year (and, realistically, it's only one game per year that drove it). The most recent renovations took it from ~80K to ~92K, and also did a lot to widen out the concourses and relieve the traffic flow, especially in the endzones.

The city of Dallas might have spent ~$50M on those renovations, but the last figures I saw for economic impact of the TX-OU game to the city of Dallas was in the $20M range, annually. And that was probably over a dozen years ago, so that number is likely much larger now. It was a good investment for the city of Dallas.

Edited June 21, 2018 by utee94

kopp0e · June 21, 2018

6 hours ago, Thiefery said:

The Sports networks that show events, coverage from Apps is the future maybe? I'm a die hard boxing fan as well and have noticed that the PPV avenue is dying. Now more promoters are creating subscription based apps to show their fights and inventory of fights. Hell they just showed a Championship WW match a couple weeks ago.

Let's say the LHN is dropped by ESPN in the future or they do a buy out agreement. Would Texas just use that as their 3rd tier sports network? Charge $5 a month for this app to it's fanbase (us)?

There are quite a few different ways that this could wind up shaking out for college sports rights heading into 2025 when the GoR's expire...

The individual 3rd tier properties of elite schools could look to cater directly to those fans as: Texas/ USC/ Oklahoma/ Kansas/ UCLA/ Washington ect., or there could be an effort to consolidate 3rd tier rights into a product that ESPN could leverage into a "college sports package" for streaming say the power leagues of the ACC/ SEC & XII/ PAC...

The Disney-Fox merger could play a bigger role in how things break over the next 4 to 7 years for if the mouse gains the rights to the RSN's of searchlight, then signing all the 3rd tier rights to all current XII members is possible before the end of GoR's in 2025... Which brings the chance to place PAC schools in the more lucrative XII media rights setup by having schools as TCU/ Oklahoma State/ Iowa State/ Utah ect., it's own package on ESPN+ , while Texas/ Oklahoma & USC are allowed an actual ESPN streaming apps of their own network...

Dnaguy · June 21, 2018

16 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

There are quite a few different ways that this could wind up shaking out for college sports rights heading into 2025 when the GoR's expire...

The individual 3rd tier properties of elite schools could look to cater directly to those fans as: Texas/ USC/ Oklahoma/ Kansas/ UCLA/ Washington ect., or there could be an effort to consolidate 3rd tier rights into a product that ESPN could leverage into a "college sports package" for streaming say the power leagues of the ACC/ SEC & XII/ PAC...

The Disney-Fox merger could play a bigger role in how things break over the next 4 to 7 years for if the mouse gains the rights to the RSN's of searchlight, then signing all the 3rd tier rights to all current XII members is possible before the end of GoR's in 2025... Which brings the chance to place PAC schools in the more lucrative XII media rights setup by having schools as TCU/ Oklahoma State/ Iowa State/ Utah ect., it's own package on ESPN+ , while Texas/ Oklahoma & USC are allowed an actual ESPN streaming apps of their own network...

I concur. Disney w/ its ESPN property + regional Fox properties + 60% of hulu is going to have a huge say-so in the future of college football and its realignment.

I didn't realize this but hulu is currently owned by:

Disney - 30%

Fox (and soon to be / possibly Disney... maybe still Comcast) - 30%

NBC universal (and therefore Comcast) - 30%

Turner broadcasting (and therefore Time Warner and now AT&T) - 10%

BachelorTrek · June 23, 2018

Wow..... Immortal Thread survives because Immortal, and oh yeah, 1234.

Hurtlocker · June 25, 2018

On 6/21/2018 at 5:07 PM, Dnaguy said:

I concur. Disney w/ its ESPN property + regional Fox properties + 60% of hulu is going to have a huge say-so in the future of college football and its realignment.

I didn't realize this but hulu is currently owned by:

Disney - 30%

Fox (and soon to be / possibly Disney... maybe still Comcast) - 30%

NBC universal (and therefore Comcast) - 30%

Turner broadcasting (and therefore Time Warner and now AT&T) - 10%

Not just on this quote, but the entire thread on the Fox merger, keep in mind that the Fox Sports aspects are not as clear as discussed. First off, FS1 stays with the Fox Broadcast segment (big Fox with the local stations, Fox News, Fox Business etc) with the current parent company and is not part of this deal due to Disney owning ABC and Comcast owning NBC.

The sports that are part of the deal are the 22 regional networks which include the Yes Network in NYC and the LA sports area. These are valued at around $23 billion and both Disney and Comcast will likely need to spin them off as part of the deal due to heavy scrutiny of the out sized leverage both companies would now hold across the nation in sports channels. Comcast holds major regional channels (CSN is in NYC, Chicago, etc) along with the NBC Sports channels and Disney, obviously, has the ESPN Family.

As DNA mentioned, Hulu will become a sticking point as well. Comcast got their 30% when they bought NBC Universal and regulators forced them to become a silent partner with no management input to keep Comcast from hamstringing a potential distribution competitor. Buying Fox would give them controlling interest, which is going to make people even jumpier. They will likely need to sell Fox's stake in Hulu to make the deal work.

I cannot see any possible way that Disney nor Comcast end up with all of the sports channels AND Hulu as part of this deal. I think the real question is, who will enter the market and buy them when either Comcast or Disney spin them off?

Hurtlocker · June 27, 2018

Follow up on this, for media nerds:

Disney just gained regulatory approval to purchase Fox, but only under the decree that they will be required to sell all of Fox's regional sports networks within 90 day of the deal closing.

kopp0e · June 29, 2018

On 6/25/2018 at 1:30 PM, Hurtlocker said:

Not just on this quote, but the entire thread on the Fox merger, keep in mind that the Fox Sports aspects are not as clear as discussed. First off, FS1 stays with the Fox Broadcast segment (big Fox with the local stations, Fox News, Fox Business etc) with the current parent company and is not part of this deal due to Disney owning ABC and Comcast owning NBC.

The sports that are part of the deal are the 22 regional networks which include the Yes Network in NYC and the LA sports area. These are valued at around $23 billion and both Disney and Comcast will likely need to spin them off as part of the deal due to heavy scrutiny of the out sized leverage both companies would now hold across the nation in sports channels. Comcast holds major regional channels (CSN is in NYC, Chicago, etc) along with the NBC Sports channels and Disney, obviously, has the ESPN Family.

As DNA mentioned, Hulu will become a sticking point as well. Comcast got their 30% when they bought NBC Universal and regulators forced them to become a silent partner with no management input to keep Comcast from hamstringing a potential distribution competitor. Buying Fox would give them controlling interest, which is going to make people even jumpier. They will likely need to sell Fox's stake in Hulu to make the deal work.

I cannot see any possible way that Disney nor Comcast end up with all of the sports channels AND Hulu as part of this deal. I think the real question is, who will enter the market and buy them when either Comcast or Disney spin them off?

As you pointed out in your later post, Disney is required to sell off the 22 RSN's, effectively halting any potential for new content to be placed on the fledgeling ESPN+...

I wanted to post about 2 seperate links that will display how most of all this is moving so fast that even the conferences (B1G/ SEC/ XI & PAC), are having a hard time taking all the information in... And currently there are only about 3 years left between now & when the B1G starts it's negotiations with the media entities (nearly the same for the PAC, followed by the XII just 1 year later)...

This first clip, is a podcast from Heartland College Sports, and in particular listen to the 4:00 & 10:00 minute(s) marks, as they both cover events that have happened such as when Nebraska left the XII for the B1G, followed by the potential for, get this: a PAC-XII merger...

[link:https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2018/06/27/interview-athlon-sports-j-p-scott-on-big-12-vs-power-5-and-nebraskas-mistakes/ ]

Spoiler

Quote

BIG 12 AUDIO
Interview: Athlon Sports’ J.P. Scott on Big 12 vs. Power 5 and Nebraska’s Mistakes

ByPete Mundo

Posted on June 27, 2018

A great conversation as Pete Mundo is joined by J.P. Scott of Athlon Sports to discuss the Big 12 standing amongst the Power 5 conferences, plus whether or not Nebraska regrets leaving the Big 12 Conference and what the (down the road) future is of conference realignment.

And pertaining to the fast moving market of mergers and media conglomerates vying to get an edge on the competition, here is a article from the voice of the PAC, Jon Wilner:

Quote

The evolving media landscape and looming Tier I deals for the Power Five: Hotline Q&A with dealmaker Chris Bevilacqua

By JON WILNER | jwilner@bayareanewsgroup.com | Bay Area News Group
PUBLISHED: June 18, 2018 at 7:33 am | UPDATED: June 18, 2018 at 7:45 am
Every headline, every report, every utterance about AT&T’s merger with Time Warner indicated it was a momentous, landscape-change event.

But how? How would it change the media world in general, the college sports world specifically and … if we’re really drilling down … the next round of Tier I negotiations for the Power Five conferences?

Could a judge’s decision in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., eventually impact revenue streams in Pullman and Tucson and all points in between?
Searching for context, for a morsel of clarity, the Hotline reached out to Chris Bevilacqua.

If the name is unfamiliar, know that Bevilacqua worked for Nike, founded CSTV and currently operates Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures, an advisory group for media and commercial rights.

He has advised, among others, the Pac-12, the Big 12 and the Big East on media rights deals and the University of Washington on its recently-completed apparel contract ($120 million from Adidas).

Bevilacqua was kind enough to share his perspective on the sports media landscape.

* What’s your read on the future of sports media rights if we use as a backdrop the next round of Tier I rights for the Power Five?

“It’s hard to predict so far out in the future, because you can see how quickly consumer behavior changes.

“It seems like we’re in the middle of an experiment about how consumer behavior affects technology. We don’t know the effect of all this because we’re living through it — we’re watching it all happen in real time. You could make a prediction about something and be proven wrong three weeks later.

“But at the end of the day, all this change is shaping a higher value for premium content and premium brands, and for access to that content. It’s not just the merger that went through. It’s Comcast and Fox and Disney, and Viacom and CBS, and Sprint and T Mobile. And then what are the tech guys going to do?

“It’s pretty clear, if you look at the mergers, that there’s a doubling down on premium content. It’s Disney saying, ‘We have to get more heft to compete. We need depth and breadth for all audiences.’

“When you talk about live premier content, that’s sports. We’re not talking about rugby and lacrosse. We’re talking about football and basketball, baseball, the NHL and the Olympics. If you’re on the top shelf, the future is bright.

“But there’s going to be a choppiness as things work through the system for a few years. And that’s not to mention we’re in the world of Trump and regulatory issues and net neutrality. It will take a while to sort itself out.”

* The Big Ten’s media rights expire in the summer of 2023, and the Pac-12’s are up in ’24. That means we’re roughly three years from the start of the Big Ten’s negotiating phase. Will there be clarity at that point?

“I don’t know that it will all be sorted out by then, but some of it will be sorted out. Everybody will have more and better information on the overall market and what business models will work. But they will be going through (negotiations) while it’s changing.

“The evolution of the industry is going at a pace we haven’t seen, but it’s not going to stay at this pace forever.”

* How would you advise the commissioner of Conference X to prepare for Tier I negotiations to ensure maximum value for content?

“I’d say: ‘Put out a great product and showcase it in a way that maximizes consumption. Do what you’re doing. The market will define itself.’ If you have high-value premium content, you’ll be OK.

“There is a lot more consumption of video right now than there has been in the history of the world, and most of the increase has been in digital and mobile. What’s very clear to me is that consumption is ahead of monetization. There’s all this consumption of video on mobile and only one or two companies have figured it out: Facebook and YouTube.

“That’s why AT&T is trying to play catchup (by acquiring Time Warner’s content), because they see you can target ads on all these platforms. They’re fighting back because they see Facebook is making $50 billion in advertising.

“What’s going to happen over the next several years is everybody’s going to try to catch up so that monetization matches consumption on digital and mobile. You have all the people fleeing to Over-The-Top and Direct-To-Consumer, but the business models haven’t caught up to it yet.

“We’ll see how they all make the pivot.”

* In the previous round of Tier I negotiations, there was a small number of buyers: Fox and ESPN mostly; Comcast dabbled. Because of that, the conference felt the need to get bigger, to increase supply. But if there are numerous potential buyers in the next round — Fox and ESPN and maybe the telecos and the techs — could that eliminate the need for the conferences to get even bigger? Might we not see any realignment?

“The reasons expansion may or may not happen aren’t directly aligned to the number of buyers. If you have more than one buyer, you have a market, right? It’s a matter of the strategic importance of the content to the buyer.

“I think there will be at least two or three well-heeled media guys, whether it’s Disney or Fox, Viacom or CBS, Turner — there will be multiple legacy media companies in that market (for Tier 1 rights).

“The outstanding question is, ‘When are the tech guys going to show up, and are they going to show up?’ They all have massive video budgets, and they’ve started to dabble in sports. But in three-and-a-half years, when the Big Ten hits the market, are any of those non-legacy media companies going to be there in a big way?

“I hope so, but it’s not clear to me yet.”

* What clues are you watching for to determine whether the techs will jump in?

“We just saw Amazon do a deal with the EPL” — 20 matches per year for Prime members in Ireland and Great Britain — “and we saw them re-up with the NFL. It’s clear there is some alignment with sports. Verizon spent $2.25 billion on the NFL and didn’t even get exclusivity.

“They’re all dabbling. But what happens when the rubber hits the road in the next cycle of deals? The NFL, NHL, MLB, Big Ten, Pac-12 and NASCAR — they’re all up in about a three-year window. When they all turn over, we’ll see if there’s a critical mass and sports rights migrate out of the bundle.”

* What else is on your sports rights radar?

“Another big thing — and it’s all interrelated — is net neutrality. There’s this fight between the pipes (Verizon, Comcast AT&T) and the techs. Google, Netflix and Facebook want access to the pipes without paying tolls.

“There’s a lot going on on the regulatory front, and it all is connected to the top of the pyramid. If you’re an owner of rights, you want as little friction in the system as possible. You want your product in as many places as possible in real time.

“Then you throw in gambling, which will have people tethered. And that’s a great thing for sports and the owners of sports rights.”

Here are the untouched numbers & rankings from the USA Today sports article: (I cut the list off at #150 because why not)...

Quote

TOP SCHOOL REVENUE

Total

$214,830,647

RK SCHOOL CONF TOTAL REVENUE TOTAL EXPENSES TOTAL ALLOCATED % ALLOCATED

1 Texas Big 12 $214,830,647 $207,022,323 $0 0.00

2 Texas A&M SEC $211,960,034 $146,546,229 $0 0.00

3 Ohio State Big Ten $185,409,602 $173,507,435 $0 0.00

4 Michigan Big Ten $185,173,187 $175,425,392 $280,647 0.15

5 Alabama SEC $174,307,419 $158,646,962 $2,938,948 1.69

6 Georgia SEC $157,852,479 $119,218,908 $3,273,422 2.07

7 Oklahoma Big 12 $155,238,481 $132,910,780 $0 0.00

8 Florida SEC $149,165,475 $131,789,499 $1,567,806 1.05

9 LSU SEC $147,744,233 $131,717,421 $0 0.00

10 Auburn SEC $147,511,034 $132,885,979 $3,633,521 2.46

11 Tennessee SEC $145,653,191 $134,880,229 $0 0.00

12 Oregon Pac-12 $145,417,315 $119,945,650 $271,222 0.19

13 Florida State ACC $144,514,413 $143,373,261 $7,446,443 5.15

14 Penn State Big Ten $144,017,055 $138,724,055 $0 0.00

15 Wisconsin Big Ten $143,420,668 $142,930,591 $2,843,000 1.98

16 South Carolina SEC $136,032,845 $129,317,382 $0 0.00

17 Kentucky SEC $130,706,744 $125,333,866 $0 0.00

18 Iowa Big Ten $130,681,467 $128,869,211 $650,000 0.50

19 Arkansas SEC $129,680,808 $112,902,474 $0 0.00

20 Washington Pac-12 $128,745,183 $123,503,513 $3,742,614 2.91

21 Michigan State Big Ten $126,021,377 $117,506,272 $901,057 0.72

22 Louisville ACC $120,445,303 $118,383,769 $5,383,718 4.47

23 Nebraska Big Ten $120,205,090 $112,571,632 $0 0.00

24 Mississippi SEC $117,834,511 $108,885,512 $2,784,879 2.36

25 Minnesota Big Ten $116,376,862 $114,201,678 $14,817,134 12.73

26 Clemson ACC $112,600,964 $111,126,235 $5,472,888 4.86

27 West Virginia Big 12 $110,565,870 $89,196,193 $4,167,480 3.77

28 Indiana Big Ten $106,139,192 $106,131,819 $2,569,044 2.42

29 UCLA Pac-12 $104,106,646 $104,106,646 $2,708,118 2.60

30 Arizona State Pac-12 $101,579,860 $98,825,395 $18,866,371 18.57

31 Mississippi State SEC $100,062,237 $86,351,432 $0 0.00

32 Missouri SEC $97,848,195 $102,409,131 $1,015,000 1.04

33 Illinois Big Ten $97,447,731 $100,739,817 $3,281,700 3.37

34 Rutgers Big Ten $96,883,027 $99,193,280 $33,087,478 34.15

35 North Carolina ACC $96,551,626 $96,540,823 $8,785,137 9.10

36 Kansas Big 12 $95,251,461 $94,709,233 $1,920,908 2.02

37 Maryland Big Ten $94,881,357 $94,796,897 $14,473,659 15.25

38 Colorado Pac-12 $94,226,111 $90,640,627 $12,577,570 13.35

39 Virginia ACC $92,865,175 $100,324,517 $13,942,471 15.01

40 Oklahoma State Big 12 $91,644,865 $89,833,094 $3,673,085 4.01

41 Arizona Pac-12 $90,976,758 $91,756,963 $10,069,281 11.07

42 California Pac-12 $90,976,576 $106,959,739 $0 0.00

43 Texas Tech Big 12 $88,804,476 $86,984,083 $5,799,878 6.53

44 Virginia Tech ACC $87,427,526 $90,716,423 $8,888,537 10.17

45 Kansas State Big 12 $86,081,528 $73,970,354 $450,000 0.52

46 Purdue Big Ten $84,841,133 $85,709,495 $0 0.00

47 North Carolina State ACC $83,741,572 $86,924,779 $6,551,791 7.82

48 Utah Pac-12 $83,672,639 $81,620,307 $12,421,715 14.85

49 Connecticut AAC $83,374,223 $83,121,820 $42,227,612 50.65

50 Iowa State Big 12 $82,659,447 $82,565,176 $2,133,219 2.58

51 Georgia Tech ACC $81,762,024 $84,852,123 $7,651,426 9.36

52 Oregon State Pac-12 $78,959,875 $82,730,626 $7,126,768 9.03

53 Washington State Pac-12 $64,294,520 $71,801,820 $5,263,059 8.19

54 Cincinnati AAC $60,458,195 $62,804,292 $26,745,506 44.24

55 Air Force Mt. West $59,577,780 $50,112,617 $33,339,247 55.96

56 Houston AAC $57,174,900 $55,277,308 $25,703,451 44.96

57 Central Florida AAC $56,327,225 $56,327,225 $27,661,927 49.11

58 San Diego State Mt. West $52,454,787 $51,569,852 $24,322,966 46.37

59 South Florida AAC $49,960,338 $48,227,500 $21,503,730 43.04

60 Memphis AAC $48,716,830 $48,443,158 $18,257,221 37.48

61 East Carolina AAC $48,312,311 $48,387,287 $19,739,500 40.86

62 James Madison CAA $48,210,400 $48,210,400 $39,119,920 81.14

63 Massachusetts A-10 $48,054,005 $47,535,791 $37,249,930 77.52

64 Hawaii Big West $47,780,885 $48,984,980 $20,486,904 42.88

65 Nevada-Las Vegas Mt. West $47,327,478 $47,476,606 $21,622,440 45.69

66 Fresno State Mt. West $46,215,249 $44,119,522 $20,634,658 44.65

67 Old Dominion C-USA $46,203,813 $46,181,753 $28,681,512 62.08

68 Boise State Mt. West $45,486,486 $45,456,789 $12,615,561 27.73

69 Colorado State Mt. West $44,672,317 $43,965,622 $23,265,238 52.08

70 New Mexico Mt. West $44,421,019 $44,356,217 $11,694,978 26.33

71 Delaware CAA $40,883,947 $40,883,947 $33,063,193 80.87

72 Wyoming Mt. West $40,372,222 $38,669,544 $18,452,045 45.70

73 Arkansas State Sun Belt $39,459,027 $39,459,027 $12,624,293 31.99

74 Western Michigan MAC $38,516,531 $38,271,134 $24,349,702 63.22

75 Texas State Sun Belt $38,445,832 $35,915,260 $27,787,153 72.28

76 Charlotte C-USA $37,931,802 $33,246,728 $25,709,896 67.78

77 Miami (Ohio) MAC $37,766,348 $36,097,843 $24,693,963 65.39

78 Nevada Mt. West $36,955,558 $38,982,774 $12,477,955 33.76

79 California-Davis Big West $35,954,033 $34,625,583 $27,442,876 76.33

80 Buffalo MAC $35,892,221 $35,883,884 $25,628,422 71.40

81 Akron MAC $35,331,217 $33,895,809 $24,641,163 69.74

82 Appalachian State Sun Belt $35,058,621 $35,065,566 $21,257,458 60.63

83 Central Michigan MAC $34,692,784 $31,792,125 $25,077,606 72.28

84 Florida Atlantic C-USA $34,509,259 $34,102,683 $23,953,161 69.41

85 Utah State Mt. West $34,398,296 $34,213,406 $18,911,117 54.98

86 Virginia Commonwealth A-10 $34,297,744 $33,595,855 $20,609,275 60.09

87 Middle Tennessee C-USA $34,040,334 $34,040,334 $22,376,798 65.74

88 Coastal Carolina Sun Belt $33,703,994 $33,704,483 $28,251,293 83.82

89 Florida International C-USA $33,389,929 $33,003,699 $24,028,758 71.96

90 Toledo MAC $32,925,921 $32,925,921 $21,073,807 64.00

91 Stony Brook Am East $32,458,520 $31,339,766 $26,799,950 82.57

92 Eastern Michigan MAC $32,311,247 $32,311,246 $23,109,498 71.52

93 Ohio MAC $32,234,688 $32,621,410 $20,090,007 62.32

94 North Texas C-USA $32,150,203 $36,363,381 $21,398,461 66.56

95 Texas-El Paso C-USA $31,781,343 $32,039,189 $18,486,004 58.17

96 New Hampshire Am East $31,621,272 $31,243,908 $21,800,013 68.94

97 California Polytechnic Big West $31,435,074 $27,908,939 $21,762,270 69.23

98 San Jose State Mt. West $31,252,553 $30,676,330 $21,011,051 67.23

99 South Alabama Sun Belt $30,693,877 $27,949,252 $20,664,956 67.33

100 Western Kentucky C-USA $30,439,066 $30,439,067 $16,853,917 55.37

101 Georgia State Sun Belt $30,230,203 $29,859,420 $22,423,489 74.18

102 Troy Sun Belt $29,962,107 $29,962,107 $21,711,635 72.46

103 George Mason A-10 $29,649,087 $29,649,087 $22,269,485 75.11

104 Marshall C-USA $29,287,471 $30,342,248 $14,345,674 48.98

105 Georgia Southern Sun Belt $28,895,052 $28,761,605 $16,747,677 57.96

106 Kent State MAC $28,837,710 $29,504,048 $18,657,839 64.70

107 Texas-San Antonio C-USA $28,772,631 $30,104,385 $17,385,928 60.43

108 William & Mary CAA $28,401,480 $27,539,636 $15,658,354 55.13

109 Louisiana-Lafayette Sun Belt $28,326,919 $27,408,419 $12,800,374 45.19

110 Sacramento State Big Sky $28,275,369 $25,866,367 $22,764,632 80.51

111 Rhode Island A-10 $28,203,093 $28,048,377 $21,282,741 75.46

112 North Dakota Big Sky $28,201,349 $26,727,343 $13,107,939 46.48

113 Illinois State Mo. Valley $27,852,407 $25,144,172 $19,096,462 68.56

114 Wichita State Mo. Valley $27,791,259 $26,182,954 $7,879,317 28.35

115 North Dakota State Summit $27,267,507 $28,124,505 $7,880,233 28.90

116 Montana Big Sky $27,192,240 $21,206,839 $7,452,313 27.41

117 Towson CAA $26,989,399 $26,972,945 $23,576,513 87.35

118 Missouri State Mo. Valley $26,374,654 $26,374,654 $16,521,641 62.64

119 New Mexico State WAC $26,114,479 $23,507,513 $16,833,783 64.46

120 Ball State MAC $26,098,565 $27,410,745 $19,402,097 74.34

121 Northern Illinois MAC $25,795,597 $25,661,395 $16,816,199 65.19

122 Kennesaw State Atl Sun $25,326,240 $24,193,201 $19,449,114 76.79

123 Bowling Green MAC $25,303,291 $23,753,571 $15,882,246 62.77

124 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA $24,795,218 $23,803,547 $15,480,428 62.43

125 Louisiana Tech C-USA $24,722,695 $23,828,481 $10,687,030 43.23

126 Southern Mississippi C-USA $23,984,639 $25,251,618 $8,832,604 36.83

127 Idaho Big Sky $23,825,002 $22,817,285 $13,339,039 55.99

128 Albany Am East $23,502,958 $24,361,609 $18,174,536 77.33

129 Nebraska-Omaha Summit $22,956,239 $20,261,523 $12,063,520 52.55

130 Southern Illinois Mo. Valley $22,722,740 $26,785,157 $14,346,273 63.14

131 South Dakota State Summit $22,075,310 $20,880,295 $8,012,013 36.29

132 Montana State Big Sky $21,927,521 $20,768,973 $10,190,334 46.47

133 Vermont Am East $21,889,573 $22,060,888 $16,174,319 73.89

134 Maine Am East $20,941,860 $20,961,302 $14,181,546 67.72

135 California-Santa Barbara Big West $20,484,071 $22,293,939 $15,689,376 76.59

136 College of Charleston CAA $20,450,663 $19,931,472 $15,668,254 76.61

137 Long Beach State Big West $20,258,440 $20,214,762 $13,455,529 66.42

138 California-Irvine Big West $19,978,266 $20,562,643 $15,351,089 76.84

139 Massachusetts-Lowell Am East $19,931,925 $19,656,525 $16,926,691 84.92

140 Binghamton Am East $19,753,526 $19,139,662 $13,758,566 69.65

141 Northern Iowa Mo. Valley $19,497,119 $18,375,024 $9,284,499 47.62

142 California-Riverside Big West $19,362,719 $19,100,994 $17,034,255 87.97

143 South Dakota Summit $19,256,962 $18,904,718 $11,958,142 62.10

144 East Tennessee State Southern $18,870,608 $18,005,312 $13,550,570 71.81

145 Sam Houston State Southland $18,742,450 $18,315,142 $13,511,652 72.09

146 California State-Fullerton Big West $18,374,475 $18,374,475 $15,137,138 82.38

147 Northern Arizona Big Sky $18,353,486 $18,511,105 $13,878,065 75.62

148 Illinois-Chicago Horizon $18,197,670 $18,153,694 $13,557,842 74.50

149 California State-Northridge Big West $17,987,771 $16,714,774 $14,714,419 81.80

150 Prairie View A&M SWAC $17,851,213 $17,852,014 $13,128,636 73.54

And finally, here is a posting from a good guy by the name of JRsec who crunched the numbers on the years total revenue figures:

Quote

SEC:

2. Texas A&M: $211,960,034
5. Alabama: $174,307,419
6. Georgia: $157,852,479
8. Florida: $149,165,475
9. Louisiana State: $147,744,233
10. Auburn: $147,511,034
11. Tennessee: $145,653,191
16. South Carolina: $136,032,845
18. Kentucky: $130,706,744
20. Arkansas: $129,680,808
26. Mississippi: $117,834,511
36. Mississippi State: $100,062,237
38. Missouri: $97,848,195
62. Vanderbilt: $80,335,651
Total: $1,926,694,856
Average Per Team: $137,621,061

Big 10:

3. Ohio State: $185,409,602
4. Michigan: $185,173,187
14. Penn State: $144,017,055
15. Wisconsin: $142,930,591
19. Iowa: $130,681,467
22. Michigan State: $126,021,377
25. Nebraska: $120,205,090
27. Minnesota: $116,376,862
31. Indiana: $106,139,192
39. Illinois: $97,447,731
40. Rutgers: $96,883,027
43. Maryland: $94,881,357
54. Purdue: $84,841,133
56. Northwestern: $84,279,755
Total: $1,715,848,804
Average Per Team: $122,560,629

Big 12:

1. Texas: $214,830,647
7. Oklahoma: $155,238,481
30. West Virginia: $110,565,870
32. Texas Christian: $105,055,587
37. Baylor: $98,125,426
42. Kansas: $95,251,461
46. Oklahoma State: $91,644,865
51. Texas Tech: $88,804,476
53. Kansas State: $86,081,528
60. Iowa State: $82,659,447
Total: $1,128,257,788
Average Per Team: $112,825,779

PAC 12:

12. Oregon: $145,417,315
21. Washington: $128,745,183
23. Stanford: $125,039,558
28. Southern Cal: $113,174,912
33. Cal Los Angeles: $104,106,646
34. Arizona State: $101,579,860
44. Colorado: $94,226,111
48. Arizona: $90,976,758
49. California: $90,976,576
58. Utah: $83,672,639
63. Oregon State: $78,959,875
****************************
66. Washington State: $64,294,520
Total: $1,221,169,953
Average Per Team: $101,764,163

ACC:

13. Florida State: $144,514,413
24. Louisville: $120,445,303
29. Clemson: $112,600,964
35. Duke: $100,480,206
41. North Carolina: $96,540,823
45. Virginia: $92,865,175
47. Syracuse: $91,445,865
50. Miami: $89,135,175
52. Virginia Tech: $87,427,526
55. Pittsburgh: $84,831,036
57. N.C. State: $83,741,572
61. Georgia Tech: $81,762,024
64. Boston College: $74,587,091
65. Wake Forest: $66,995,224
Total: $1,327,372,397
Average Per Team: $94,812,314

*17. Notre Dame: $132,371,404

The Only G5 school to place in the top 65:

59. Connecticut: $83,374,223

Gross Total Revenue By Conference:
1. SEC: $1,926,694,856
2. B1G: $1,715,848,804
3. ACC: $1,327,372,397
4. PAC: $1,221,169,953
5. B12: $1,128,257,788

Gross Total Revenue Average Per School by Conference:
1. SEC: $137,621,061
2. B1G: $122,560,629 (-$15,060,432)
3. B12: $112,825,779 (-$24,795,282)
4. PAC: $101,764,163 (-$35,856,898)
5. ACC: $ 94,812,314 (-$42,808,747)

NOTES: I think this is the greatest distance from the average per school revenue that we have had ever. Is there any wonder that many in are beginning to doubt the ability of the ACCN to help them catch up?

Next year the Big 10 will get a spike in revenue of 12 million while the SEC will see a spike of about 6. So by the end of next year when this report comes out expect the Big 10 to close their deficit to us to about 8 to 9 million in distance. This is why I have not been troubled by the Big 10's media deal. They've gotten their best shot and will still come up almost 9 million short.

I think you can see why the Big 12 hasn't really felt the heat due to finances. They do fine. If movement happens it will be for reasons other than money.

kopp0e · July 2, 2018

Here is a list of the top 25 metropolitan statistical areas, as listed by conference region (including overlap), for each recruiting footprint listed below...

The PAC (8) as pointed out is insulated by geography that would work in the favor of programs looking to recruit those markets as:

2

Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA MSA

13,353,907

11

Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ MSA

4,737,270

12

San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA MSA

4,727,357

13

Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA

4,580,670

15

Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA

3,867,046

17

San Diego-Carlsbad, CA MSA

3,337,685

19

Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO MSA

2,888,227

25

Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA

2,453,168

The XII (3) is quite successful in it's own right as the conference with the smallest roster of members of any P5 league bost good recruiting in Texas:

4

Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX MSA

7,399,662

5

Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA

6,892,427

24

San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX MSA

2,473,974

The SEC (5) a region full of talent, has name brands, but it "shares" markets with the ACC (although the SEC dominates most markets in the region):

5

Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA

6,892,427

9

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA MSA

5,884,736

18

Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA

3,091,399

21

St. Louis, MO-IL MSA

2,807,338

23

Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL MSA

2,509,831

The ACC (11) sharing with the SEC, still is able to siphon off enough talent to stay competitive in the region against it's powerful neighbors (B1G/ SEC):

1

New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA MSA

20,320,876

3

Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI MSA

9,533,040

6

Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA

6,216,589

7

Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL MSA

6,158,824

8

Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA

6,096,120

9

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA MSA

5,884,736

10

Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH MSA

4,836,531

18

Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA

3,091,399

20

Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA

2,808,175

22

Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC MSA

2,525,305

23

Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL MSA

2,509,831

The B1G (7) a heavyweight since the industrial revolution, has seen it's population migrating both south & west over the past few decades:

1

New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA MSA

20,320,876

3

Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI MSA

9,533,040

6

Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA

6,216,589

14

Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI MSA

4,313,002

8

Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA

6,096,120

16

Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI MSA

3,600,618

20

Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA

2,808,175

[* symbolizes for shared markets ]

In other words, the PAC & XII would combine to hold the most markets that are completely "unshared", by a power conference counterpart of ACC/ B1G or SEC...
Here as a portion of the article from above referenced, that states that the SEC dominates (of course) followed by the PAC, then XII then ACC, followed by the B1G:

“CONFERENCE RECRUITING SUPREMACY

“Using the ESPN 300 as the basis for measuring the ability to capture top College Football talent, the SEC has been dominant for the past five years (2014-2018 recruiting classes). Of the 1,463 ESPN 300 recruits signed by Power 5 teams, more than one in three signed to an SEC team. On a per-team basis, the SEC is lapping the nearest conference with 7.7 ESPN 300 signees per SEC team per year, with the Pac-12 coming in second with 3.8 ESPN 300 signees per team per year. With only 10 teams, the Big 12 is clearly trailing the other conferences with a total of only 175 ESPN 300 recruits signed over the five-year period. However, on a per-team basis, the Big 12 is in the middle of the pack, tied with the ACC, with each conference averaging 3.5 ESPN 300 recruits per team, per year.”

Here are the per team annual average among the conferences:

#1.) SEC 7.7

#2.) Pac-12 3.8

#3.) Big 12 3.5

#4.) ACC 3.5

#5.) Big Ten 3.3

Machinator · July 15, 2018

Clarence Beeks · August 8, 2018

What the PAC should have done when UT left them at the altar:

While they were grabbing CU and Utah, they should have made a run at Tech and New Mexico. The Lobos don't move the needle but they provide a scheduling bridge between Tech and the other PAC schools. What West Virginia wouldn't give for a bridge school like Cincinnati right now. Also, in 2010, the conference network model was based on subscription footprint. Even though Tech is dogshite, they are in Texas. That means the PAC network would be able to charge extra for the PAC network in every TV package sold in the state, just like the SEC does.

Of course, this is all hindsight dancing in fantasy disco, so might as well wish Dodds had tried to coax Arky and LSU into the Big12 instead of trying to make a run to the PAC.

Hurtlocker · August 9, 2018

16 hours ago, Clarence Beeks said:

might as well wish Dodds had tried to coax Arky and LSU into the Big12 instead of trying to make a run to the PAC.

Now that would be awesome

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

On 8/8/2018 at 8:41 AM, Clarence Beeks said:

What the PAC should have done when UT left them at the altar:

While they were grabbing CU and Utah, they should have made a run at Tech and New Mexico. The Lobos don't move the needle but they provide a scheduling bridge between Tech and the other PAC schools. What West Virginia wouldn't give for a bridge school like Cincinnati right now. Also, in 2010, the conference network model was based on subscription footprint. Even though Tech is dogshite, they are in Texas. That means the PAC network would be able to charge extra for the PAC network in every TV package sold in the state, just like the SEC does.

Of course, this is all hindsight dancing in fantasy disco, so might as well wish Dodds had tried to coax Arky and LSU into the Big12 instead of trying to make a run to the PAC.

The XII could eventually look to expand with regional schools, any as: UNLV/ BYU/ Wyoming/ Colorado State/ New Mexico/ Houston/ Rice & Tulane, to reach 12...
West Virginia joins the ACC or SEC, allowing the XII additional two spots, four in total to fill the league roster to 12 conference members, keeping UT & OU intact...

Or, seeing if the chance arises for the XII to poach members of the PAC in a merger, could come into play between 2023 & 2025, for a combined league...

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

XII sucks. Should have gone to Pac.

Al_4_ISU · September 7, 2018

32 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

XII sucks. Should have gone to Pac.

I still don't understand this sentiment. The Pac 12 is considerably worse at football and most of those fanbases give zero shits about college football. ESPN of all places has already counted them out of the playoff already this year. No one's saying that about the XII.

I'm sure it's the same old "would rather have road trips to the west coast than plains states" thing, but vacation destinations are literally the only thing the Pac 12 has over the Big 12, and that's not even on the decision makers' radar.

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

There is more parity in the Pac, year in and year out. XII has basically been a plate of cupcakes for OU for the past twenty years save the off years when Texas is blessed with a VY or Colt McCoy generational talent. Every once in a while a team like WV, Okie Lite, KState, or Tech can overachieve for a few years, but it's not the same has having to deal with USC, Stanford, and Oregon every year, and although many other Pac teams are fairly middle-of-the-road (UW, OreSt, ASU, Arizona) those teams are still more impressive than Kansas, Baylor, and Iowa State.

Even though Pac is not projected to send anyone to CFP this year, they at least have sent multiple teams, which is more than we can say about the XII in the few years XII has managed to get a team into CFP.

IDIOTsavant · September 7, 2018

55 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

There is more parity in the Pac, year in and year out. XII has basically been a plate of cupcakes for OU for the past twenty years save the off years when Texas is blessed with a VY or Colt McCoy generational talent. Every once in a while a team like WV, Okie Lite, KState, or Tech can overachieve for a few years, but it's not the same has having to deal with USC, Stanford, and Oregon every year, and although many other Pac teams are fairly middle-of-the-road (UW, OreSt, ASU, Arizona) those teams are still more impressive than Kansas, Baylor, and Iowa State.

Even though Pac is not projected to send anyone to CFP this year, they at least have sent multiple teams, which is more than we can say about the XII in the few years XII has managed to get a team into CFP.

You sound 10...

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I still don't understand this sentiment. The Pac 12 is considerably worse at football and most of those fanbases give zero shits about college football. ESPN of all places has already counted them out of the playoff already this year. No one's saying that about the XII.

I'm sure it's the same old "would rather have road trips to the west coast than plains states" thing, but vacation destinations are literally the only thing the Pac 12 has over the Big 12, and that's not even on the decision makers' radar.

Why must it be a PAC vs XII thing, if in fact the 2 leagues have already discussed an alliance or merging before...

And it looks as though in actuality, a PAC south division would pack more fans than a B1G west division...

The SEC west would out outpace both, on average & have closer traveling for away games...

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

I'd pick Stanford and Oregon's record over almost anyone in the XII over the past decade.

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

There is more parity in the Pac, year in and year out. XII has basically been a plate of cupcakes for OU for the past twenty years save the off years when Texas is blessed with a VY or Colt McCoy generational talent. Every once in a while a team like WV, Okie Lite, KState, or Tech can overachieve for a few years, but it's not the same has having to deal with USC, Stanford, and Oregon every year, and although many other Pac teams are fairly middle-of-the-road (UW, OreSt, ASU, Arizona) those teams are still more impressive than Kansas, Baylor, and Iowa State.

Even though Pac is not projected to send anyone to CFP this year, they at least have sent multiple teams, which is more than we can say about the XII in the few years XII has managed to get a team into CFP.

A setup where Iowa State/ Kansas are in a division with other North schools as Colorado/ Utah, gives more of a chance for Iowa State to compete for the division title, instead of a round robin as now...

Oklahoma/ Texas/ TCU & Tech would be in the south against USC & UCLA, so it would be a monster division to reach the league title game...

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Just now, kopp0e said:

A setup where Iowa State/ Kansas are in a division with other North schools as Colorado/ Utah, gives more of a chance for Iowa State to compete for the division title, instead of a round robin as now...

Oklahoma/ Texas/ TCU & Tech would be in the south against USC & UCLA, so it would be a monster division to reach the league title game...

I prefer that over our current schedule.

IDIOTsavant · September 7, 2018

Just now, chainsaw said:

I'd pick Stanford and Oregon's record over almost anyone in the XII over the past decade.

Hence the choice of 10 for my comment.

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

If the XII intends to use the same method on scheduling as in the SEC, with 8 conference games per season with 4 out of conference games, the XII has to at least get back to 12 members, or look at grabbing a core of the PAC in a merger...

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Just now, IDIOTsavant said:

Hence the choice of 10 for my comment.

To be honest, that probably also goes for all time except I'd say Texas and maybe KState are more accomplished by that metric. Nebraska certainly was, too. What I don't want is for Texas to become the next ND, having to point to the past consistently because of a downward turn in quality that hasn't been corrected.

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

The best options for the XII in expansion all sit either in the state of Texas, (Rice or Houston) or Louisiana (Tulane), all other options are to the west...

So would you rather play schools like New Mexico & UNLV in a south division, or USC & Arizona State, is the question, if expanding is needed in the future...

Treefidy · September 7, 2018

UT and OU to SECw,

poor aggy head explodes in misery

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

5 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

UT and OU to SECw,

poor aggy head explodes in misery

Those seats in the tackle box will get filled for sure then..!

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

That would be a lot of fun, but no way OU separates from Okie Lite.

Treefidy · September 7, 2018

4 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

That would be a lot of fun, but no way OU separates from Okie Lite.

So kick out Missouri and take them along. Or better yet....

kick aggy to the curb. Fuck, wouldn't that be outstanding? In fact, I'm ready to start lobbying for it right now. UT, OU, OSU to the SECw, they just have to cut aggy lose to make room.

You know the teams in the west are already tired of weird aggy bullshit, it's still just rumor for most of the teams in the east since they have had the opportunity to experience it in person.

DCLonghorn · September 7, 2018

3 hours ago, chainsaw said:

XII sucks. Should have gone to Pac.

Me along with the rest of the 47% of the US population that lives in the Eastern time zone would be super psyched to watch that late game! I watch WAY less Astros baseball now that they've moved to the AL West.

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Better than 11AM kicks.

Chili dog · September 7, 2018

If 2-8 of our teams joined the PAC we’d just divide the divisions into east and west. We’d only play teams from the Pacific time zone twice a year. None if we had a 18 to 20-team super conference. And with the two cross-divisional games, one of those would be at home. Wouldn’t be as bad as it sounds for scheduling.

Thats not to say the PAC would be my first choice. It’s workable, though.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Chili dog

DeadArmadillo · September 7, 2018

27 minutes ago, Chili dog said:

If 2-8 of our teams joined the PAC we’d just divide the divisions into east and west. We’d only play teams from the Pacific time zone twice a year. None if we had a 18 to 20-team super conference. And with the two cross-divisional games, one of those would be at home. Wouldn’t be as bad as it sounds for scheduling.

Thats not to say the PAC would be my first choice. It’s workable, though.

I don't know why people think that they would have the Texas / Oklahoma teams playing late games. The networks would just have them start the West Coast games at 5 or 6 local time. Better ratings, more ads, more $$$$$. Why would they start a game so late that the larger fan bases would have trouble watching them? Do ESPN and Fox and CBS not like money?

And if the Texhoma Four went to the PAC, it would probably result in a system of four team pods. There would only be two or maybe three games a season in Pacific Time. And instead of comparing the current PAC to the current Big 12, we need to be comparing the current PAC 12 + OU, UT, OSU, TTU to the current Big 12.

The current Big 12 is pretty strong, but what would a 16 team PAC be if what you added was four big public, football crazy schools? Especially if two of them are OU and UT? Would it rival the B1G and SEC?

camel at sea · September 7, 2018

4 hours ago, chainsaw said:

I'd pick Stanford and Oregon's record over almost anyone in the XII over the past decade.

2008-2017:

Oregon: 100-32

TCU: 98-32

OK State: 96-34

Stanford: 97-35

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Asterisk for TCU, before they were in a P5. I stand by what I said.

joeycovers · September 7, 2018

26 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

2008-2017:

Oregon: 100-32

TCU: 98-32

OK State: 96-34

Stanford: 97-35

Ok State Beat Tree in Fiesta Bowl

TCU beat Ducks in Alamo Bowl

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Just now, joeycovers said:

Ok State Beat Tree in Fiesta Bowl

TCU beat Ducks in Alamo Bowl

Yes, I get that isolated bowl wins are fun, but overall the Pac programs have been more impressive.

joeycovers · September 7, 2018

Just now, chainsaw said:

Yes, I get that isolated bowl wins are fun, but overall the Pac programs have been more impressive.

More impressive based on what?

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

Not being in a cupcake conference (TCU), having a higher strength of schedule, having more wins and CFP appearances.

'stache · September 7, 2018

Stupid opinions are stupid. PAC teams have been pretty bad to mediocre for a while now with a few year to year exceptions.

joeycovers · September 7, 2018

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Not being in a cupcake conference (TCU), having a higher strength of schedule, having more wins and CFP appearances.

Is this a B12 vs P12 debate or Ok St ,TCU vs Ducks ,Tree debate?

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Stupid opinions are stupid. PAC teams have been pretty bad to mediocre for a while now with a few year to year exceptions.

camel at sea · September 7, 2018

11 minutes ago, joeycovers said:

Is this a B12 vs P12 debate or Ok St ,TCU vs Ducks ,Tree debate?

If you just line the Big 12 up verses the PAC, top to bottom, it's pretty even.

Oklahoma - USC

Texas - UCLA

WVU - Washington

TCU - Stanford

OK State - Oregon

Tech - ASU

KSU - Arizona

Baylor - Cal

ISU - Wazzu

KU - Oregon State

The Big 12's blue bloods are better. The PAC's dregs have been better. But it's pretty even overall. The biggest thing working against the Big 12's competitive second tier schools has been that the Big 12 has a blue blood playing well. The PAC doesn't have that with USC. Even still, there's not much separation between TCU/OSU and Stanford/Oregon over the last ten years. Both sides have a private school that rejuvenated after being bad for decades. And both sides have a program build largely by one mega-donor.

chainsaw · September 7, 2018

I think Cal is much better than Baylor if you exclude the Briles era. I would probably put UCLA way lower and Oregon/UW much higher (since they've both made CFP). But otherwise I think we're basically saying the same thing in different ways. The main difference is that OU easily runs the table here and in a way that no Pac team has been able to do since the Pete Carroll era. Plenty of Pac teams have finished in the top 2 of their divisions since it expanded to twelve teams, perhaps even all twelve of them. We can't say the same about the XII when it had divisions. Not much has changed since then, either.

Overall, I'd be more excited about conference play in that one than in the XII.

RK	SCHOOL	CONF	TOTAL REVENUE	TOTAL EXPENSES	TOTAL ALLOCATED	% ALLOCATED
1	Texas	Big 12	$214,830,647	$207,022,323	$0	0.00
2	Texas A&M	SEC	$211,960,034	$146,546,229	$0	0.00
3	Ohio State	Big Ten	$185,409,602	$173,507,435	$0	0.00
4	Michigan	Big Ten	$185,173,187	$175,425,392	$280,647	0.15
5	Alabama	SEC	$174,307,419	$158,646,962	$2,938,948	1.69
6	Georgia	SEC	$157,852,479	$119,218,908	$3,273,422	2.07
7	Oklahoma	Big 12	$155,238,481	$132,910,780	$0	0.00
8	Florida	SEC	$149,165,475	$131,789,499	$1,567,806	1.05
9	LSU	SEC	$147,744,233	$131,717,421	$0	0.00
10	Auburn	SEC	$147,511,034	$132,885,979	$3,633,521	2.46
11	Tennessee	SEC	$145,653,191	$134,880,229	$0	0.00
12	Oregon	Pac-12	$145,417,315	$119,945,650	$271,222	0.19
13	Florida State	ACC	$144,514,413	$143,373,261	$7,446,443	5.15
14	Penn State	Big Ten	$144,017,055	$138,724,055	$0	0.00
15	Wisconsin	Big Ten	$143,420,668	$142,930,591	$2,843,000	1.98
16	South Carolina	SEC	$136,032,845	$129,317,382	$0	0.00
17	Kentucky	SEC	$130,706,744	$125,333,866	$0	0.00
18	Iowa	Big Ten	$130,681,467	$128,869,211	$650,000	0.50
19	Arkansas	SEC	$129,680,808	$112,902,474	$0	0.00
20	Washington	Pac-12	$128,745,183	$123,503,513	$3,742,614	2.91
21	Michigan State	Big Ten	$126,021,377	$117,506,272	$901,057	0.72
22	Louisville	ACC	$120,445,303	$118,383,769	$5,383,718	4.47
23	Nebraska	Big Ten	$120,205,090	$112,571,632	$0	0.00
24	Mississippi	SEC	$117,834,511	$108,885,512	$2,784,879	2.36
25	Minnesota	Big Ten	$116,376,862	$114,201,678	$14,817,134	12.73
26	Clemson	ACC	$112,600,964	$111,126,235	$5,472,888	4.86
27	West Virginia	Big 12	$110,565,870	$89,196,193	$4,167,480	3.77
28	Indiana	Big Ten	$106,139,192	$106,131,819	$2,569,044	2.42
29	UCLA	Pac-12	$104,106,646	$104,106,646	$2,708,118	2.60
30	Arizona State	Pac-12	$101,579,860	$98,825,395	$18,866,371	18.57
31	Mississippi State	SEC	$100,062,237	$86,351,432	$0	0.00
32	Missouri	SEC	$97,848,195	$102,409,131	$1,015,000	1.04
33	Illinois	Big Ten	$97,447,731	$100,739,817	$3,281,700	3.37
34	Rutgers	Big Ten	$96,883,027	$99,193,280	$33,087,478	34.15
35	North Carolina	ACC	$96,551,626	$96,540,823	$8,785,137	9.10
36	Kansas	Big 12	$95,251,461	$94,709,233	$1,920,908	2.02
37	Maryland	Big Ten	$94,881,357	$94,796,897	$14,473,659	15.25
38	Colorado	Pac-12	$94,226,111	$90,640,627	$12,577,570	13.35
39	Virginia	ACC	$92,865,175	$100,324,517	$13,942,471	15.01
40	Oklahoma State	Big 12	$91,644,865	$89,833,094	$3,673,085	4.01
41	Arizona	Pac-12	$90,976,758	$91,756,963	$10,069,281	11.07
42	California	Pac-12	$90,976,576	$106,959,739	$0	0.00
43	Texas Tech	Big 12	$88,804,476	$86,984,083	$5,799,878	6.53
44	Virginia Tech	ACC	$87,427,526	$90,716,423	$8,888,537	10.17
45	Kansas State	Big 12	$86,081,528	$73,970,354	$450,000	0.52
46	Purdue	Big Ten	$84,841,133	$85,709,495	$0	0.00
47	North Carolina State	ACC	$83,741,572	$86,924,779	$6,551,791	7.82
48	Utah	Pac-12	$83,672,639	$81,620,307	$12,421,715	14.85
49	Connecticut	AAC	$83,374,223	$83,121,820	$42,227,612	50.65
50	Iowa State	Big 12	$82,659,447	$82,565,176	$2,133,219	2.58
51	Georgia Tech	ACC	$81,762,024	$84,852,123	$7,651,426	9.36
52	Oregon State	Pac-12	$78,959,875	$82,730,626	$7,126,768	9.03
53	Washington State	Pac-12	$64,294,520	$71,801,820	$5,263,059	8.19
54	Cincinnati	AAC	$60,458,195	$62,804,292	$26,745,506	44.24
55	Air Force	Mt. West	$59,577,780	$50,112,617	$33,339,247	55.96
56	Houston	AAC	$57,174,900	$55,277,308	$25,703,451	44.96
57	Central Florida	AAC	$56,327,225	$56,327,225	$27,661,927	49.11
58	San Diego State	Mt. West	$52,454,787	$51,569,852	$24,322,966	46.37
59	South Florida	AAC	$49,960,338	$48,227,500	$21,503,730	43.04
60	Memphis	AAC	$48,716,830	$48,443,158	$18,257,221	37.48
61	East Carolina	AAC	$48,312,311	$48,387,287	$19,739,500	40.86
62	James Madison	CAA	$48,210,400	$48,210,400	$39,119,920	81.14
63	Massachusetts	A-10	$48,054,005	$47,535,791	$37,249,930	77.52
64	Hawaii	Big West	$47,780,885	$48,984,980	$20,486,904	42.88
65	Nevada-Las Vegas	Mt. West	$47,327,478	$47,476,606	$21,622,440	45.69
66	Fresno State	Mt. West	$46,215,249	$44,119,522	$20,634,658	44.65
67	Old Dominion	C-USA	$46,203,813	$46,181,753	$28,681,512	62.08
68	Boise State	Mt. West	$45,486,486	$45,456,789	$12,615,561	27.73
69	Colorado State	Mt. West	$44,672,317	$43,965,622	$23,265,238	52.08
70	New Mexico	Mt. West	$44,421,019	$44,356,217	$11,694,978	26.33
71	Delaware	CAA	$40,883,947	$40,883,947	$33,063,193	80.87
72	Wyoming	Mt. West	$40,372,222	$38,669,544	$18,452,045	45.70
73	Arkansas State	Sun Belt	$39,459,027	$39,459,027	$12,624,293	31.99
74	Western Michigan	MAC	$38,516,531	$38,271,134	$24,349,702	63.22
75	Texas State	Sun Belt	$38,445,832	$35,915,260	$27,787,153	72.28
76	Charlotte	C-USA	$37,931,802	$33,246,728	$25,709,896	67.78
77	Miami (Ohio)	MAC	$37,766,348	$36,097,843	$24,693,963	65.39
78	Nevada	Mt. West	$36,955,558	$38,982,774	$12,477,955	33.76
79	California-Davis	Big West	$35,954,033	$34,625,583	$27,442,876	76.33
80	Buffalo	MAC	$35,892,221	$35,883,884	$25,628,422	71.40
81	Akron	MAC	$35,331,217	$33,895,809	$24,641,163	69.74
82	Appalachian State	Sun Belt	$35,058,621	$35,065,566	$21,257,458	60.63
83	Central Michigan	MAC	$34,692,784	$31,792,125	$25,077,606	72.28
84	Florida Atlantic	C-USA	$34,509,259	$34,102,683	$23,953,161	69.41
85	Utah State	Mt. West	$34,398,296	$34,213,406	$18,911,117	54.98
86	Virginia Commonwealth	A-10	$34,297,744	$33,595,855	$20,609,275	60.09
87	Middle Tennessee	C-USA	$34,040,334	$34,040,334	$22,376,798	65.74
88	Coastal Carolina	Sun Belt	$33,703,994	$33,704,483	$28,251,293	83.82
89	Florida International	C-USA	$33,389,929	$33,003,699	$24,028,758	71.96
90	Toledo	MAC	$32,925,921	$32,925,921	$21,073,807	64.00
91	Stony Brook	Am East	$32,458,520	$31,339,766	$26,799,950	82.57
92	Eastern Michigan	MAC	$32,311,247	$32,311,246	$23,109,498	71.52
93	Ohio	MAC	$32,234,688	$32,621,410	$20,090,007	62.32
94	North Texas	C-USA	$32,150,203	$36,363,381	$21,398,461	66.56
95	Texas-El Paso	C-USA	$31,781,343	$32,039,189	$18,486,004	58.17
96	New Hampshire	Am East	$31,621,272	$31,243,908	$21,800,013	68.94
97	California Polytechnic	Big West	$31,435,074	$27,908,939	$21,762,270	69.23
98	San Jose State	Mt. West	$31,252,553	$30,676,330	$21,011,051	67.23
99	South Alabama	Sun Belt	$30,693,877	$27,949,252	$20,664,956	67.33
100	Western Kentucky	C-USA	$30,439,066	$30,439,067	$16,853,917	55.37
101	Georgia State	Sun Belt	$30,230,203	$29,859,420	$22,423,489	74.18
102	Troy	Sun Belt	$29,962,107	$29,962,107	$21,711,635	72.46
103	George Mason	A-10	$29,649,087	$29,649,087	$22,269,485	75.11
104	Marshall	C-USA	$29,287,471	$30,342,248	$14,345,674	48.98
105	Georgia Southern	Sun Belt	$28,895,052	$28,761,605	$16,747,677	57.96
106	Kent State	MAC	$28,837,710	$29,504,048	$18,657,839	64.70
107	Texas-San Antonio	C-USA	$28,772,631	$30,104,385	$17,385,928	60.43
108	William & Mary	CAA	$28,401,480	$27,539,636	$15,658,354	55.13
109	Louisiana-Lafayette	Sun Belt	$28,326,919	$27,408,419	$12,800,374	45.19
110	Sacramento State	Big Sky	$28,275,369	$25,866,367	$22,764,632	80.51
111	Rhode Island	A-10	$28,203,093	$28,048,377	$21,282,741	75.46
112	North Dakota	Big Sky	$28,201,349	$26,727,343	$13,107,939	46.48
113	Illinois State	Mo. Valley	$27,852,407	$25,144,172	$19,096,462	68.56
114	Wichita State	Mo. Valley	$27,791,259	$26,182,954	$7,879,317	28.35
115	North Dakota State	Summit	$27,267,507	$28,124,505	$7,880,233	28.90
116	Montana	Big Sky	$27,192,240	$21,206,839	$7,452,313	27.41
117	Towson	CAA	$26,989,399	$26,972,945	$23,576,513	87.35
118	Missouri State	Mo. Valley	$26,374,654	$26,374,654	$16,521,641	62.64
119	New Mexico State	WAC	$26,114,479	$23,507,513	$16,833,783	64.46
120	Ball State	MAC	$26,098,565	$27,410,745	$19,402,097	74.34
121	Northern Illinois	MAC	$25,795,597	$25,661,395	$16,816,199	65.19
122	Kennesaw State	Atl Sun	$25,326,240	$24,193,201	$19,449,114	76.79
123	Bowling Green	MAC	$25,303,291	$23,753,571	$15,882,246	62.77
124	Alabama at Birmingham	C-USA	$24,795,218	$23,803,547	$15,480,428	62.43
125	Louisiana Tech	C-USA	$24,722,695	$23,828,481	$10,687,030	43.23
126	Southern Mississippi	C-USA	$23,984,639	$25,251,618	$8,832,604	36.83
127	Idaho	Big Sky	$23,825,002	$22,817,285	$13,339,039	55.99
128	Albany	Am East	$23,502,958	$24,361,609	$18,174,536	77.33
129	Nebraska-Omaha	Summit	$22,956,239	$20,261,523	$12,063,520	52.55
130	Southern Illinois	Mo. Valley	$22,722,740	$26,785,157	$14,346,273	63.14
131	South Dakota State	Summit	$22,075,310	$20,880,295	$8,012,013	36.29
132	Montana State	Big Sky	$21,927,521	$20,768,973	$10,190,334	46.47
133	Vermont	Am East	$21,889,573	$22,060,888	$16,174,319	73.89
134	Maine	Am East	$20,941,860	$20,961,302	$14,181,546	67.72
135	California-Santa Barbara	Big West	$20,484,071	$22,293,939	$15,689,376	76.59
136	College of Charleston	CAA	$20,450,663	$19,931,472	$15,668,254	76.61
137	Long Beach State	Big West	$20,258,440	$20,214,762	$13,455,529	66.42
138	California-Irvine	Big West	$19,978,266	$20,562,643	$15,351,089	76.84
139	Massachusetts-Lowell	Am East	$19,931,925	$19,656,525	$16,926,691	84.92
140	Binghamton	Am East	$19,753,526	$19,139,662	$13,758,566	69.65
141	Northern Iowa	Mo. Valley	$19,497,119	$18,375,024	$9,284,499	47.62
142	California-Riverside	Big West	$19,362,719	$19,100,994	$17,034,255	87.97
143	South Dakota	Summit	$19,256,962	$18,904,718	$11,958,142	62.10
144	East Tennessee State	Southern	$18,870,608	$18,005,312	$13,550,570	71.81
145	Sam Houston State	Southland	$18,742,450	$18,315,142	$13,511,652	72.09
146	California State-Fullerton	Big West	$18,374,475	$18,374,475	$15,137,138	82.38
147	Northern Arizona	Big Sky	$18,353,486	$18,511,105	$13,878,065	75.62
148	Illinois-Chicago	Horizon	$18,197,670	$18,153,694	$13,557,842	74.50
149	California State-Northridge	Big West	$17,987,771	$16,714,774	$14,714,419	81.80
150	Prairie View A&M	SWAC	$17,851,213	$17,852,014	$13,128,636	73.54

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