Realignment talk not going away

[Hurtlocker 2208]

12 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

Probably relevant, since a new commissioner was not expected for a while longer.

Maybe CBS would like a late night window too

[Jabberwocky 1666]

 

[billfromlaketravis 11364]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Regarding playing Tech going forward - Tech's people in the legislature and at the school are working aggressively to get a piece of the PUF pie. To the point of doing some dirty shit and trying to do other dirty shit to work every angle. I won't pretend to know what those things are, but Texas, at the highest levels, has little interest in doing anything that helps Tech in anything going forward. We'd rather see them relegated to college sports backwaters. There is no trust between the schools at this point.

I don't know if they're able to strongarm some games with Texas in the future, they might be able to do it, but their recent whining in social media and with people in the media carrying water is an indicator that they don't like where things are heading in terms of riding UT's coattails.

That shit comes from someone that every poster on this thread and board would believe if they'd say it in public.

If I know my Tech douche bags, and I think I do, this sounds like all Cody Campbell. 

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

2 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

Dude is so shook

[USC Traveler 488]

 

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Dude is so shook

He really is.

When he said CU leaving wouldn't hurt the PAC and that the four PNW schools plus Utah was a strong enough core to keep the PAC intact, I realized that he was in an extreme state of denial.

An interesting question is who is living deeper in fantasyland ?  Klownkoff, or his media water boys like Mandel, Wilner and Canzano ?

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

I'm very very interested in the new BIG commissioners philosophy moving forward? Does he want to bring in two more brands quickly? Anyone have an idea of the type of guy he is?

[camel at sea 589]

12 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Dude is so shook

Yeah.  He's probably taken a bigger reputation beating than any other media personality in this PAC realignment cycle and it's going to get much worse if/when teams start jumping ship.   

[LTbear 4161]

35 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  He's probably taken a bigger reputation beating than any other media personality in this PAC realignment cycle and it's going to get much worse if/when teams start jumping ship.   

Isn't he also the one that would religiously defend/ excuse UCLA's absolutely embarrassing attendance for weeks on end?

[Richard Kimball 1492]

Conferences moving forward will not be conferences as we think of them, but more corporate conglomerates negotiating as a group. For example, up until 1991, when Arkansas and South Carolina joined the SEC, each SEC team played every other SEC team every year. In a four year college career, a player would visit every other school in the conference twice, and would play them at home twice. IIRC, the last two times Alabama played South Carolina was in 2010 and 2019. They may be in the same conference, but that's not even being friends with benefits. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I suspect Alabama has played several teams out of conference more often in the time span from 2010 to 2022. 

In the old Southwest Conference, most games were a reasonably quick road trip from Texas to TCU, Rice, Baylor, aggy, SMU, Oklahoma (OOC but annual and neutral site.) Even the longer away games were doable by vehicle (Tech, Arkansas.) Everyone had an opinion on all the other schools. Where it was Rice (those poor bastards,) Baylor (I hate those bastards and don't ever want to see them again) aggy (I REALLY hate those bastards and don't care if we ever play them again,) Oklahoma (I REALLY, REALLY hate those bastards and want to play them every year just to kick their asses,) and on. 

From this perspective, Texas came out great in the move to the SEC. They'll make more money, and keep the rival games (probably) that mean the most to them. But as far as being a traditional conference? Unless we get stuck having to play Mizzery every year, we won't even know they exist. It will be that way with about half of our "conference mates."

Another thing that's changed is the fans in the stands. The newest stadiums are built more like television studios than stadiums. The fans are the studio audience. Road trips, except for the Surly elites that fly in on their private jets while drinking latte while Scarlett Johansson gives them a foot rub, will be a lot less common. 

I'm not saying it will be better or worse, but it will be different. 

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

16 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Isn't he also the one that would religiously defend/ excuse UCLA's absolutely embarrassing attendance for weeks on end?

That's the one, you win!

[oSuJeff97 3435]

56 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  He's probably taken a bigger reputation beating than any other media personality in this PAC realignment cycle and it's going to get much worse if/when teams start jumping ship.   

LOL yes. He’s been getting dunked on for like a year straight now.

Remember when he cited recruiting rankings as evidence that the PAC would get a better deal than the Big 12? LOL

[DanTheHorn 4902]

17 hours ago, Jabberwocky said:

Probably relevant, since a new commissioner was not expected for a while longer.

Well he knows how to run a sports networks. We will see how he does running a conference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Petitti

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

16 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

LOL yes. He’s been getting dunked on for like a year straight now.

Remember when he cited recruiting rankings as evidence that the PAC would get a better deal than the Big 12? LOL

He also did some sort of TV audience comparison that had to have been handed from the Pac office.   It was like watching a toddler try and explain why the sky is blue.

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Well he knows how to run a sports networks. We will see how he does running a conference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Petitti

 

There's a difference?

[USC_TMB 405]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  He's probably taken a bigger reputation beating than any other media personality in this PAC realignment cycle and it's going to get much worse if/when teams start jumping ship.   

Wait, what? Pete Thamel actually had a reputation? That’s need to anyone with functioning brain cells

[gatormarc 904]

41 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

For example, up until 1991, when Arkansas and South Carolina joined the SEC, each SEC team played every other SEC team every year. In a four year college career, a player would visit every other school in the conference twice, and would play them at home twice.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to create an account to point out that this is 100% incorrect. 

The 10 Team SEC played a 6 game conference schedule up until 1988 and played a 7 game schedule from 1989-1991.

I'm fairly certain everyone had 5 permanent rivals and the other 4 teams would rotate with the final 1 or 2 games, and there was usually 5-7 years between home-home series.

 

[DanTheHorn 4902]

9 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

There's a difference?

Based on the requirements I guess not except for dealing with people that have an academia background that are the ultimate decision makers. 

Spoiler

Representative Position Summary (not exhaustive): 

The Big Ten’s Council of Chancellors and Presidents (the “Board”), on behalf of the Athletics Directors, the Senior Woman Administrators, the Faculty Athletic Representatives, the coaches and the student-athletes, seeks to identify a diverse pool of highly qualified candidates in order to hire the Big Ten’s 7th Commissioner.   The Commissioner will serve as the chief executive officer of the Big Ten, reporting to the Board and partnering closely with all stakeholders.  The Board desires that the Big Ten Conference continue to remain the leader in college sports.  The Big Ten should continue leading the progressive conference office & revenue model of the future; one that delivers a more durable and farsighted economic foundation.  The Big Ten should lead in monetizing our unique markets and assets in a way that fully values our commitment to better care for, serve, and support student-athletes and our broader communities.  Going forward, the Commissioner’s role is both about stabilizing what exists, and also designing, engineering, and building a new future for intercollegiate athletics which maintains the Big Ten’s primacy.  Finally, it is crucial that the Commissioner never lose sight of the true mission and values of the Conference – to focus, develop, and prepare student-athletes to become the future leaders of the world.  

The role is responsible for leading the conference as a collective, and all conference stakeholders & partners, strategically and tactically, on all issues including but not limited to: (i) student-athlete wellness, empowerment & equity; (ii) conference-wide academic & athletic performance; (iii) public policy, governmental, legislative & NCAA issues as well as conference wide compliance standards; (iv) business issues pertaining to athletics, at the national level, conference level, and institution level.   The Commissioner shall possess a record demonstrating: 

Integrity: Unblemished track record of personal and professional behavior, ethics & integrity, completely aligned with the Big Ten’s values.  Inclusive, empowering & equitable.  Objective, impartial & fair when balancing competing concerns.  Universally respected. 

Academic Passion: Devoted to lifelong learning & education, curious, inquisitive, open-minded, smart, strategic, quick study, intellectually creative, able to bring many factors into a decision and anticipate changing circumstances. 

Consensus Builder: Statesperson - Excellent interpersonal & communication skills; good listener, diplomatic, conflict resolution skills.  Selfless team player.  Ability to build coalitions and lead through complex, challenging and constantly shifting headwinds.  Master collaborator. 

Change Agent: Thought leader who can execute.  Ability to anticipate and discern trends which portend change; ability to lead change, embrace uncertainty and disruption, and envision a future for the Big Ten which is NOT winner take all, but holistic, nurturing and sustaining for all intercollegiate athletics, while preserving our primacy. 

Business Innovator: Well-rounded business executive with a demonstrated track record of accelerating revenue, improving financial performance, and leveraging emerging trends in television, media, digital, social, telecom, technology, etc.  Track record of innovation keeping ahead of a changing marketplace. 

The Commissioner shall focus on the holistic model of the student-athlete including physical and mental health, and foster their education, development, and well-being as the conference’s highest priority.  These duties include ensuring that the Big Ten shall have a leading voice in shaping the future of the student-athlete experience, health & safety, equity, as well as empowerment on economic, social and personal issues. 

The Commissioner shall be fully committed to maintaining the equal treatment of all races, genders, religions and cultures, making sure to prioritize & advance equity at the conference office, at the Big Ten member institutions, and throughout all aspects of the Big Ten. 

The Commissioner shall be fully committed to the continued academic integrity & excellence of the Big Ten and its member institutions and student-athletes, making sure all Big Ten stakeholders remain in strict compliance with all applicable rules and regulations. 

The Commissioner shall work tirelessly to ensure that all Big Ten schools and student-athletes continue to compete and win championships at the highest levels, and are as fully resourced and supported as possible in comparison with other conferences. 

The Commissioner shall strategize, envision, build, manage, lead, and optimize the Big Ten’s business prospects and financials, for the purpose of helping Big Ten institutions be able to fund the widest possible range of sports and services for Big Ten student-athletes. 

The Commissioner shall work closely and collaboratively with all stakeholders across the entire landscape of intercollegiate athletics, as well as governmental & corporate constituents, to create a better future for Big Ten student athletics, member institutions and intercollegiate athletics at large. 

Representative Duties & Responsibilities (not exhaustive): 

• Partner with and serve the Board to preserve, protect & defend the Big Ten, its membership, its shared governance model, its academic & athletic standards of excellence, its brand, etc. 

• Partner with and serve the Big Ten Athletic Directors, SWAs, FARs and coaches who are in direct, day-to-day contact with the student-athletes. 

• Partner with and serve student-athlete leadership to ensure that the voice of the student-athlete and broad educational mission of the Big Ten is included in all major decisions. 

• Serve as a steward for athletic competition within higher education, and even an ambassador for higher education, both within the Big Ten Conference and nationally.  

• Partner with key intercollegiate athletics organizations, including the CFP, NCAA, the ACC, Big 12, PAC 12, SEC, and other intercollegiate athletics conferences, LEAD-1, NACDA, Women Leaders in College Sports, etc.  Represent the Big Ten on the CFP board. 

• Continue the Big Ten’s legacy in a broad portfolio of sports to support national and international competition. 

• Champion Title IX initiatives and drive a strong commitment to diversity, in all forms, within athletics.  Recognize and acknowledge the challenges facing diverse student-athletes.  

• Display thought leadership and fortitude on a national stage, collaborating with the other leaders of intercollegiate athletics.  The Big Ten should be considered an innovative pioneer, and in constant pursuit of excellence, especially during challenging times that require ingenuity, innovation, creativity, enterprising spirit and new ways of doing things. 

• Build the conference organizational structure & staff of the future, recruiting top talent, and diverse talent and then developing, managing, and leading the team to new heights. 

• Analyze and assess the key business relationships and contractual commitments not only at the conference level but also assist the Big Ten schools in a similar manner.  

• Bring an ambitious and entrepreneurial approach to identifying and creating new revenue growth opportunities for all of the sports at the conference and the schools.   This may mean building consensus and followership around new ways of structuring the economic, financial, and business relationships within the Big Ten itself, and with external partners. 

• Maintain an advanced approach to finance and financial matters, including but not limited to accounting, banking, finance, investment vehicles, financial markets, real estate, and other areas which can give the Big Ten more financial options and opportunities. 

• Oversee the budget and P&L, including all financial matters and commercial endeavors.   Manage the receipt, deposit, and disbursement of funds to the member institutions.  Review and establish financial planning, budgeting, reporting and administrative protocols for the Board and the AD’s. 

• Review and reimagine partnerships going forward, including with media partners, sponsors, co-branding opportunities, sponsor activation, licensing, etc.  Not only at the conference level, but also helping the schools as well.  Find ways to reset and reinvigorate how the Big Ten of the future conducts and optimizes a wide array of partnerships at multiple levels. 

• Set a long-term strategic agenda for the Big Ten that unites all stakeholders in facing trends and issues that potentially threaten the Big Ten's stability and growth; and develop a written, detailed strategic plan and business plan to map out the Big Ten’s future growth academically, athletically, organizationally, and financially. 

• Oversee all operational and financial facets of Big Ten initiatives, campaigns, events, tournaments, and championships.  Seek new and creative ways of driving the business forward at the conference level and the institutional level. 

• Prioritize and advance initiatives and programs that foster an equitable and inclusive Big Ten community supporting the economic, social, psychological & emotional needs of all stakeholders, most importantly student athletes. 

• Promote collaboration, consensus, and open communication among the Big Ten members.  When there is disagreement and/or conflict, work painstakingly to build consensus, seek creative solutions, always seeking to resolve matters constructively. 

• Evaluate and ensure that the Big Ten offices are staffed with a diverse, highly talented staff who can meet the new challenges that the Conference faces. 

• Maintain a performance and development plan for each Big Ten Conference staff member. 

• Manage and review the work of Big Ten officials/referees/judges to ensure objective impartiality. 

• Serve as the Big Ten’s primary public representative and spokesperson; represent and promote the Big Ten with integrity, strength, class and eloquence vis-à-vis all media, public policy, and other external and internal constituencies. 

• Develop a strategic and tactical communications plan focusing on key intercollegiate athletics organizations, including but not limited to the NCAA, the ACC, Big 12, PAC 12, SEC, and other intercollegiate conferences, plus industry organizations like LEAD-1, NACDA, Women Leaders in Sports, etc. on communications and policy initiatives, always with the Big Ten’s best interests in mind. 

• Develop and implement a broad range of external activities such as speaking engagements, media events, the distribution of high-end publications/ communications, and social media outreach to reinforce and market the positive image and reputation of the Big Ten and its member institutions. 

• Meet regularly with key stakeholders at the membership institutions, the media, and commercial partners.  Be a visible and enthusiastic presence at kick-off events such as College Football Playoffs games, Bowl Games, Conference championships, tournaments, and national meetings.  This role requires significant at-event and ceremonial presence and gravitas. 

Representative Qualifications, Skills & Education (not exhaustive): 

• Experience as a college student-athlete, college coach and/or athletics administrator a plus, but not required. 

• Preference for individuals who are knowledgeable and experienced in the quickly evolving business and legal landscape of sports, sports media, sports marketing, sports performance, etc.  Experience in intercollegiate sports is not technically “required,” but, at this point in time, shall be given preference. 

• A strong understanding of the differences between professional sports and college sports, and continually balance competing concerns.  Student-athlete-focused success, including programs for academic advising/counseling; priority of class attendance, grade point averages, NCAA academic progress rates (APR) along with the NCAA and federal graduation rates.  A vision for crafting and continually nurturing a high-quality student-athlete experience. 

• 15+ years’ work experience at well-run organizations; track record of management experience with media, marketing, communications, marketing partnerships, fiscal/financial planning, budgeting, reporting; risk management and fiscal/financial systems and controls. 

• Proven ability to identify, recruit, attract, develop and retain A-list talent from a wide range of diverse sources.  Proven ability to inspire and empower a highly diverse team. 

• Prior experience assisting a Board or serving on a Board strongly preferred. 

• A marketer’s instinctual mindset, driven to communicate and elevate the Big Ten’s brand nationally and globally.  Big Ten institutions draw students from all over the world.  Develop an ongoing marketing and communications plan to promote the academic, athletic, and other success stories of the Big Ten individually and collectively. 

• Demonstrated experience advancing all aspects of diversity and inclusion, assuring gender equity and full compliance with Title IX; a strong personal commitment to diversity; diverse candidates welcome and desired. 

• Leadership quotient with a track record of anticipating future trends, staying ahead of trends, and leading diverse, dispersed, decentralized organizations, particularly through challenging times and evolving circumstances. 

• Excellent interpersonal, communicative, collaborative and team building skills including but not limited to strong written, verbal, listening, communication and interpersonal skills with demonstrated eagerness to interact with, understand and relate to students, coaches, faculty, staff, regents, alumni, media and all stakeholders, etc.  The successful candidate must embody and balance the tone and tenor of an educator, coach, business leader and public servant. 

• A strong work ethic; great attention to detail; the ability to balance conflicting goals and agendas; the ability to make difficult decisions as part of a team; ability to handle what feels like constant criticism; strong negotiation skills. 

• Flawless personal and professional integrity underpinning a deep knowledge of and experience with all applicable rules, track record of success in meeting legal, regulatory, and/or other compliance standards. 

• Bachelor's degree required; Master's or other post-graduate degree in athletic administration, education, business, law, medicine, public policy or related field preferred; an intellectual curiosity and commitment to lifelong learning; demonstrated commitment to academic integrity, student athlete graduation rates and student-athlete wellness. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 18984]

20 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Regarding playing Tech going forward - Tech's people in the legislature and at the school are working aggressively to get a piece of the PUF pie. To the point of doing some dirty shit and trying to do other dirty shit to work every angle. I won't pretend to know what those things are, but Texas, at the highest levels, has little interest in doing anything that helps Tech in anything going forward. We'd rather see them relegated to college sports backwaters. There is no trust between the schools at this point.

I don't know if they're able to strongarm some games with Texas in the future, they might be able to do it, but their recent whining in social media and with people in the media carrying water is an indicator that they don't like where things are heading in terms of riding UT's coattails.

That shit comes from someone that every poster on this thread and board would believe if they'd say it in public.

I didn't know that you and Longhorn Bob Wheeler had patched things up.  Good for you.

[notre dame joe 173]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:50 PM, TKthunder2 said:

A real argument I’m not hearing anyone really make is that Oklahoma is leaving it’s historical rivals, but as everyone loves to focus their hate on Texas somehow they keep getting a pass in this whole thing in the media/public.

We saw that UT can leave w/o OU but not the other way around.

[Horn of Gabriel 1590]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I didn't know that you and Longhorn Bob Wheeler had patched things up.  Good for you.

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

LOL yes. He’s been getting dunked on for like a year straight now.

Remember when he cited recruiting rankings as evidence that the PAC would get a better deal than the Big 12? LOL

I expect a guy like Wilner - regional PAC media guy - to regurgitate PAC talking points, but Mandel is the editor-in-chief of the Athletic.  Total embarrassment.  

[Uncle Nate 2097]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I didn't know that you and Longhorn Bob Wheeler had patched things up.  Good for you.

Longhorn Bob...

Is he still living in a converted school bus somewhere between Austin and Stillwater?  (Wasn't that his last known whereabouts?)

Just curious how many of you Horns contributed to said school bus.

[Richard Kimball 1492]

1 hour ago, gatormarc said:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to create an account to point out that this is 100% incorrect. 

The 10 Team SEC played a 6 game conference schedule up until 1988 and played a 7 game schedule from 1989-1991.

I'm fairly certain everyone had 5 permanent rivals and the other 4 teams would rotate with the final 1 or 2 games, and there was usually 5-7 years between home-home series.

 

Thanks for getting that. I checked Bama and several others, and they had each played each other each year. Must have picked all permanent rivals. Anyway, good to see you on the board. 

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, gatormarc said:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to create an account to point out that this is 100% incorrect. 

The 10 Team SEC played a 6 game conference schedule up until 1988 and played a 7 game schedule from 1989-1991.

I'm fairly certain everyone had 5 permanent rivals and the other 4 teams would rotate with the final 1 or 2 games, and there was usually 5-7 years between home-home series.

 

Yeah.  The SEC has a bunch of longtime members who have hardly played.  LSU-Tennessee have played in football only 34 times ever.  LSU has played Georgia 33 times.  Bama has played Florida only 41 times (and it would be quite a bit less if they didn't meet so much in SEC title games.)  They've been gaming schedules to inflate win totals for a long time.  Their conference ended up with so many "brands" in part b/c they weren't knocking each other down during in-conference play.  

[gatormarc 904]

10 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

Thanks for getting that. I checked Bama and several others, and they had each played each other each year. Must have picked all permanent rivals. Anyway, good to see you on the board. 

I think it might be a case of you bad lucking into the outlier that is Alabama Football.

Bama used to, on average, play more SEC games than everyone else.

Prior to the 80s, there were no set number of conference games. They would often schedule 1 or 2 more conference games than everyone else. At one point they played 8 conference games at the same year Tulane only played 5.

In the early 80s, the league locked down to everyone playing the same number... so a couple of their games vs Ole Miss were actually out of conference matchups.

Thanks for the welcome.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, USC_TMB said:

Wait, what? Pete Thamel actually had a reputation? That’s need to anyone with functioning brain cells

No he was talking about Mandel.

2 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

He also did some sort of TV audience comparison that had to have been handed from the Pac office.   It was like watching a toddler try and explain why the sky is blue.

LOL oh yeah. That was comically bad. 

He was comparing like Big 12 games on ESPNU to PAC games on ABC or something as "proof" the PAC rated higher. Laughable.

[gatormarc 904]

15 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  The SEC has a bunch of longtime members who have hardly played.  LSU-Tennessee have played in football only 34 times ever.  LSU has played Georgia 33 times.  Bama has played Florida only 41 times (and it would be quite a bit less if they didn't meet so much in SEC title games.)  They've been gaming schedules to inflate win totals for a long time.  Their conference ended up with so many "brands" in part b/c they weren't knocking each other down during in-conference play.  

There are certainly examples of teams rarely playing each other like above but there's also been plenty of interplay between the Big 6, but they were often locked into annual series rather than rotating.

Three of the Big 6 have traditional rivalries with a 3/5 of the other "Big 6":

Florida - Georgia, Auburn, LSU
Alabama - Alabama, Tennessee, LSU
Auburn - Alabama, Georgia, Florida

LSU - Florida, Alabama, (Ole Miss)
Georgia - Auburn, Florida, (Vanderbilt)
Tennessee - Alabama, (Kentucky, Vanderbilt)

Divisional play evened it out since it created Florida/Tennessee, Georgia/Tennessee, and LSU/Auburn but at the loss of Florida/Auburn once the league went to 6-1-2 format in 2003, guaranteeing everyone played at least 3/5 of the other Big 6 members.

How does that compare historically to other conferences?

 

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

I expect a guy like Wilner - regional PAC media guy - to regurgitate PAC talking points, but Mandel is the editor-in-chief of the Athletic.  Total embarrassment.  

I think he's suffering from cognitive dissonance- he's lived in the Bay Area for a while now, and can't comprehend that a conference he saw as above the B12 and on par with the rest of the P5 is now a complete joke.  He doesn't seem to be able to conceive that the B12 is in a much stronger position than the WAC10 thanks to fanbases that care and smart moves by management (expansion and jumping the line to extend their deal) in the wake of UT and OU leaving.

What's amazing is that he fails to see all of this, despite decades of bad management by the WAC10, leading to the exit of the only football blueblood and bellcow, and losing all access to the LA market with the only hoops blueblood leaving as well.  

He's probably been getting fed BS by Klownkoff and his cronies for months, and is now shellshocked to see what's really happening.

[USC Traveler 488]

Tried to add this as an edit the above but wasn't quick enough:

Mandel's longstanding smug superiority regarding the PAC is actually a good reflection of the mindset of the idiotic WAC-PAC Presidents, who have always seen the BIG as their only peer conference, looking down their noses at the SEC and B12 due to academic snobbery, coastal elitism and religious intolerance.

It's why they're now in this position, as opposed to being in a conference with UT, OU, aggy, Tech, etc.  And btw, with USC and UCLA still in the conference.

They are reaping what they have sowed for the last 13 years.  Even further back actually, when Stanford nuked UT as a PAC member back in the day.  

[Huckleberry 32710]

22 minutes ago, gatormarc said:

How does that compare historically to other conferences?

 

In other conferences everyone played everyone else every year in a real round robin, generally speaking, before the Big Ten went to 11 and others started divisions.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

40 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

Tried to add this as an edit the above but wasn't quick enough:

Mandel's longstanding smug superiority regarding the PAC is actually a good reflection of the mindset of the idiotic WAC-PAC Presidents, who have always seen the BIG as their only peer conference, looking down their noses at the SEC and B12 due to academic snobbery, coastal elitism and religious intolerance.

It's why they're now in this position, as opposed to being in a conference with UT, OU, aggy, Tech, etc.  And btw, with USC and UCLA still in the conference.

They are reaping what they have sowed for the last 13 years.  Even further back actually, when Stanford nuked UT as a PAC member back in the day.  

100%

Think of all the realignment ramifications over the past 12ish years just because the PAC turned up their noses at taking the 6 Big 12 schools after Nebraska announced they were leaving.

The PAC could have established itself as one of the three super-conference pillars along with SEC and B1G, but instead they are about to become the WAC10.

['stache 21778]

4 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

100%

Think of all the realignment ramifications over the past 12ish years just because the PAC turned up their noses at taking the 6 Big 12 schools after Nebraska announced they were leaving.

The PAC could have established itself as one of the three super-conference pillars along with SEC and B1G, but instead they are about to become the WAC10.

I think ESPN was more to blame back in 2011. The Pac's media deal was Fox heavy and they didn't want to lose OU or UT, so they gave UT a network as a way to funnel them an extra $15 mil a year. It appears now that it was a long term strategy to get them into the SEC. With OU just following along of course, as the PAC did reject them when they later asked to join without UT. The PAC however should have pounced on the 8 schools left after OU/TX announced more recently (or possibly just 6 leaving out WVU and BU). They still would have lost USC and UCLA but would then be what the Big XII is now. It may end up working out better for us, but despite the media contract, I still hate being in a conference with UCF and Cincinnati despite their recent spotty successes.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I think ESPN was more to blame back in 2011. The Pac's media deal was Fox heavy and they didn't want to lose OU or UT, so they gave UT a network as a way to funnel them an extra $15 mil a year. It appears now that it was a long term strategy to get them into the SEC. With OU just following along of course, as the PAC did reject them when they later asked to join without UT. The PAC however should have pounced on the 8 schools left after OU/TX announced more recently (or possibly just 6 leaving out WVU and BU). They still would have lost USC and UCLA but would then be what the Big XII is now. It may end up working out better for us, but despite the media contract, I still hate being in a conference with UCF and Cincinnati despite their recent spotty successes.

Yeah, the biggest mistake they’ve made was not absorbing the Big 12 when UT and OU left.  I know USC was against it, but I think Arizona was the only school really enthusiastic about doing it.

I don’t like the UCF and Houston adds very much (in football), but I’d take it over Stanford and Cal.

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

 

lol

 

[closetohumping 17408]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think ESPN was more to blame back in 2011. The Pac's media deal was Fox heavy and they didn't want to lose OU or UT, so they gave UT a network as a way to funnel them an extra $15 mil a year. It appears now that it was a long term strategy to get them into the SEC. With OU just following along of course, as the PAC did reject them when they later asked to join without UT. The PAC however should have pounced on the 8 schools left after OU/TX announced more recently (or possibly just 6 leaving out WVU and BU). They still would have lost USC and UCLA but would then be what the Big XII is now. It may end up working out better for us, but despite the media contract, I still hate being in a conference with UCF and Cincinnati despite their recent spotty successes.

Not sure if it was specifically the sec as much as it was to just buy time.  Well played by them

[Jabberwocky 1666]

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

3 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

That board meets a lot.

[bullet 1596]

6 hours ago, Richard Kimball said:

Thanks for getting that. I checked Bama and several others, and they had each played each other each year. Must have picked all permanent rivals. Anyway, good to see you on the board. 

Actually some of the schools (LSU for instance) sometimes only played 5 conference games.  Some played 6.  Some would play 7.  Some schools never played.   For example Georgia and Tennessee didn't play between 1937 and 1968 and only played 8 times from 1969-1992 when they ended up in the same division.  Georgia has only played Miss. St. 26 times in history and only once before 1950.  Georgia and LSU didn't play between 1953 and 1978.  They've still only played 33 times and 5 of those were in SEC ccgs.  LSU Vanderbilt only played once between 1951 and 1976.  They've only played 33 times and 15 were 1951 or earlier.

The schedule was really thrown out of kilter when Georgia Tech and Tulane left in the 60s.  Some schools played them nearly every year.  The SEC was 12 teams from 1940-1964 when GT left and Tulane left in 1966.  In 1963 with 12 teams, two played 8 games, 6 played 7 games and 4 played 6 games.  In 1967 two played 7 games, 6 played 6 games and 2 played 5 games.

[bullet 1596]

5 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think ESPN was more to blame back in 2011. The Pac's media deal was Fox heavy and they didn't want to lose OU or UT, so they gave UT a network as a way to funnel them an extra $15 mil a year. It appears now that it was a long term strategy to get them into the SEC. With OU just following along of course, as the PAC did reject them when they later asked to join without UT. The PAC however should have pounced on the 8 schools left after OU/TX announced more recently (or possibly just 6 leaving out WVU and BU). They still would have lost USC and UCLA but would then be what the Big XII is now. It may end up working out better for us, but despite the media contract, I still hate being in a conference with UCF and Cincinnati despite their recent spotty successes.

You're right about ESPN (and Fox), but not about the LHN in 2010.  ESPN and Fox promised the Big 12 schools they would make as much as the Pac and agreed to renew early.  They all got a "bonus" from Fox effectively giving them a higher contract 2 years before it expired.  The LHN was still thought to be about $3 million a year until 5 months later when ESPN outbid Fox (who was the favorite up to that point).  Powers, Dodds and Plonsky never mentioned the LHN in their press conference explaining why they weren't going.

This LHN being a deciding factor is something Pac officials made up years later to make themselves look better.  Kind of like the OU/OSU/TT Pac discussions in 2011.  Both sides told totally different stories on why it fell through to make themselves look better.  Not sure whether I believe Boren or the Pac people on that one.

 

[elfenix 34189]

6 hours ago, gatormarc said:

There are certainly examples of teams rarely playing each other like above but there's also been plenty of interplay between the Big 6, but they were often locked into annual series rather than rotating.

Three of the Big 6 have traditional rivalries with a 3/5 of the other "Big 6":

Florida - Georgia, Auburn, LSU
Alabama - Alabama, Tennessee, LSU
Auburn - Alabama, Georgia, Florida

LSU - Florida, Alabama, (Ole Miss)
Georgia - Auburn, Florida, (Vanderbilt)
Tennessee - Alabama, (Kentucky, Vanderbilt)

Divisional play evened it out since it created Florida/Tennessee, Georgia/Tennessee, and LSU/Auburn but at the loss of Florida/Auburn once the league went to 6-1-2 format in 2003, guaranteeing everyone played at least 3/5 of the other Big 6 members.

How does that compare historically to other conferences?

 

totally on brand for the SEC.

[BurntOrange&White 39702]

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

That board meets a lot.

no board meets on a monday

[JFKFC 4878]

9 hours ago, gatormarc said:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to create an account to point out that this is 100% incorrect. 

The 10 Team SEC played a 6 game conference schedule up until 1988 and played a 7 game schedule from 1989-1991.

I'm fairly certain everyone had 5 permanent rivals and the other 4 teams would rotate with the final 1 or 2 games, and there was usually 5-7 years between home-home series.

 

I think gatormarc is a fucking liar. I'm not talking about the number of SEC games a year. I'm not fact checking that and neither are you. I think gatormarc has been lurking around Texas message boards for decades, just waiting to drop his knowledge about SEC schedules from the 80s and he finally got his shot. It's a big day for him, for all of us really. You see, this goes back to the 90s when Colorado came to Austin and Rashaan Salaam ran for about 800 yards against us. I accidentally got drunk and threw a lot of ice into the visitors' seating section. I didn't want to do it but I did. Now, their board is meeting on Monday to sanction a hit on me. I knew this day was coming. Don't buy gatormarc's cover story. Plot twist. CU sent him to hunt me down. Well, I'm right here big boy. My wife is the biggest woman in Palacios, TX. You will have to go through her to get to me.

[USC Traveler 488]

5 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think ESPN was more to blame back in 2011. The Pac's media deal was Fox heavy and they didn't want to lose OU or UT, so they gave UT a network as a way to funnel them an extra $15 mil a year. It appears now that it was a long term strategy to get them into the SEC. With OU just following along of course, as the PAC did reject them when they later asked to join without UT. The PAC however should have pounced on the 8 schools left after OU/TX announced more recently (or possibly just 6 leaving out WVU and BU). They still would have lost USC and UCLA but would then be what the Big XII is now. It may end up working out better for us, but despite the media contract, I still hate being in a conference with UCF and Cincinnati despite their recent spotty successes.

That was still on Larry Scott and the WAC-PAC Presidents.  

They were the ones who decided launching a conference network without ESPN was a good idea in the first place.  The combination of naivete, hubris, and arrogance was deadly in the short and long run.

If ESPN was their partner from the get-go, that whole scenario plays out very differently.

Also- if they had relented on unequal revenue for T3, they could have still closed the deal to get UT and friends into a PAC16, even with LHN.

[Jabberwocky 1666]

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Jabberwocky

[Deej 76585]

On 4/11/2023 at 2:57 PM, bullet said:

Everybody already recruits Florida.  A couple years ago I saw the numbers.  The ACC had the most signed freshman from Florida.  The SEC was tied with the Big 10 for 2nd. one recruit fewer than the ACC.  Georgia supplied the most SEC recruits.  And the bottom half of the SEC isn't really competing with FSU for recruits.  Georgia, Alabama, LSU do.

Mack Brown was ahead of his time killing himself recruiting in Florida.

[Crockett 489]

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

lol

 

That's hilarious. There is some additional background here. When Utah joined the P12 back in the day, they put up a billboard just as you enter Salt Lake County and just north of Utah County (home of Provo), saying "Welcome to P12 Country" to rub it in BYU fans' faces. This CW billboard is located near that original P12 billboard lol. 

[billfromlaketravis 11364]

So what’s the best case scenario for the PAC? 60% on Ion and 40% on Apple? It would look bad initially, but it could work out. 

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

3 hours ago, bullet said:

You're right about ESPN (and Fox), but not about the LHN in 2010.  ESPN and Fox promised the Big 12 schools they would make as much as the Pac and agreed to renew early.  They all got a "bonus" from Fox effectively giving them a higher contract 2 years before it expired.  The LHN was still thought to be about $3 million a year until 5 months later when ESPN outbid Fox (who was the favorite up to that point).  Powers, Dodds and Plonsky never mentioned the LHN in their press conference explaining why they weren't going.

This LHN being a deciding factor is something Pac officials made up years later to make themselves look better.  Kind of like the OU/OSU/TT Pac discussions in 2011.  Both sides told totally different stories on why it fell through to make themselves look better.  Not sure whether I believe Boren or the Pac people on that one.

 

They didn't get a bonus, the Big 12 was in a shitty situation, very similar to the ACC now.

They had updated their T2 deal, but their T1 deal, where most of the big games go and the big money flows in, was sooooo old and extremely outdated and, to make it worse, wasn't due to be updated for a while so they were under market.   Much like how CBS was paying the SEC $85m for what ESPN is paying $300m today.   What happened was basically what the same as what happened last August.   They agreed to resign at an updated market rate, giving an extension on the contract to match as a return to when the T2 expired next year.

These two contracts are what they reworked to sidestep the Pac12 last summer, updating them to market with an extension.

[Jabberwocky 1666]

I still can't believe that the Colorado AD was quote tweeting this rando "MHver3" person on twitter. 

 

[USC Traveler 488]

16 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

I still can't believe that the Colorado AD was quote tweeting this rando "MHver3" person on twitter. 

 

Incredible.  Rick George has done idiotic things on multiple occasions, so this is on brand for him.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

Clearly the Pac 12 is completely incompetent in how realignment banter works.  Its slightly embarrassing.