Realignment talk not going away

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

15 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

That was a 2 second google search. anyone who know anything about that time knows Mizzou was the first school to make overtures to the B10 re expansion. this has been discussed. heck chip browns anniversary article was out recently, recounting the timeline.  

"anyone who knows anything"

"you're way over your skis if you don't think"

these are 21st-century versions of the Chewbacca Defense

 

You contend corn took missouri's slot

No one disputes Missouri talked to itself about it's desire to get a b1g invite

 

There was no b1g invite

The b1g never took their call

There was no slot for corn to take

 

your position is quashed

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

14 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

here you gobud since you are a little new to this topic

in lieu of personal denigration, please prove my new-ness, in any way

this will be fun

[Park Gothic 4979]

[bullet 1596]

14 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

understood. my contribution on the matter was to point out the Big10 wanted to expand, mainly to get in to the conf championship business. they stated the desire to “explore “ expansion.  Missou was quickly the first to raise their hand and thus put all of this in motion, as Neb quickly threw their name in the hat. Was an offer to Mizzou imminent as one poster above asserts, that i have no opinion on, but we all know Mizzou saying the hell with our B8 brothers and to hell with the b12 put the wheels in motion for Neb , Tamu etc. That seemed to be challenged above by a few posters. 

I agree with you.  I think you misinterpreted what some of the others said.  They were challenging the idea that the Big 10 had decided to invite Missouri.

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

2021-2022 numbers are out for each conference:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2023/05/19/power-5-conferences-earnings-billions-2022/70235450007/

 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

22 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

2021-2022 numbers are out for each conference:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2023/05/19/power-5-conferences-earnings-billions-2022/70235450007/

 

So per team breakdown (ignoring BTN buyins, LHN, and ND:

• B1G - $59m
• SEC - $50m
• B12 - $44m
• ACC - $41m
• PAC - $37m

Edited May 19, 2023 by Hurtlocker

[Texas Wahoo 3383]

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

So per team breakdown (ignoring BTN buyins, LHN, and ND:

• B1G - $59m
• SEC - $50m
• B12 - $44m
• ACC - $41m
• PAC - $37m

If you take into consideration the BTN differences, the Big Ten averages about $3 million more per school than the SEC.  The $9 million figure is because four of the Big Ten schools are still getting significantly less money.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

5 hours ago, Texas Wahoo said:

If you take into consideration the BTN differences, the Big Ten averages about $3 million more per school than the SEC.  The $9 million figure is because four of the Big Ten schools are still getting significantly less money.

Some, but the majority of the difference is 9 conference games vs 8.

[notre dame joe 172]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:41 PM, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah with you on this one.   Mizzou didn't hide their neediness.   They just weren't ever getting an invite.

So who was getting that 12th spot for the ccg if Nebraska stayed in the big12?  Or would the BUG wait on Rutgers/Maryland.

[Francisco 2.0 32342]

 

 

[Thiefery 4969]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:24 PM, TKthunder2 said:

This is contains the new deals for the Big Ten and Big 12.

This does not yet include the PAC12’s new deal or the SEC’s renegotiation from adding UT/OU and a 9th conference game.

 

i don't understand this.. ACC schools will be receiving more money..per school than the new Big12 will be paying their schools.. I think the first year with the 80 million UT/ou buyout for the original 8 schools left will skewer it a bit.. but ACC will be paying more.. their 3rd tier deal (ACC network) also keeps paying more per year like the LHN deal did for UT.

[Lidig8r 1856]

23 hours ago, bullet said:

I agree with you.  I think you misinterpreted what some of the others said.  They were challenging the idea that the Big 10 had decided to invite Missouri.

Missouri was the sissified cuckold for Big 10 expansion.

Missouri's then Governor was dripping Big 10 spermatozoa from his lips.

https://www.denverpost.com/2009/12/18/gov-says-missouri-should-consider-big-ten/

One of his more... poignant statements:  

“I’m not going to say anything bad about the Big 12, but when you compare Oklahoma State to Northwestern, when you compare Texas Tech to Wisconsin, I mean, you begin looking at educational possibilities that are worth looking at,” Nixon said in an interview with The Associated Press.

“If a significant conference with a long history of academic and athletic excellence talks about you joining them, you shouldn’t just say, ‘We’re from the old Big 8 and I remember when …

Missouri's then athletic director, system president and chancellor of one campus got together to plan the collective orgy.

https://www.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2010/05/if_big_10_conference_calls_mis.html

Missouri got used. Missouri got manipulated.

Yes, Missouri is receiving more $$$. But at what cost?

Missouri is not even an after thought in the SEC.  They are a "never even thought about."  

They are cannon fodder.

Alas.... or not.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

Missouri definitely made a mistake with conference realignment.

Aggy is the only school, outside of those who were formerly G5 or left the Big East, that achieved any positive goal (outside of more money) by switching conferences in the past, and now that’s coming to an end with UT joining.

Missouri, Nebraska, and Maryland all left behind better geography and history to cash checks but not matter, and really hurt the fan experience.

Colorado went backwards in every possible way.  The program slipped, they lost their only out of state rival, and they make less money.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

9 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

So who was getting that 12th spot for the ccg if Nebraska stayed in the big12?  Or would the BUG wait on Rutgers/Maryland.

Definitely east, likely Maryland.   The President of Maryland was a B1G alum, they needed money badly, there are tons of B1G grads in DC, and the DMA is worth far more than Mizzou can provide.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

46 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Aggy is the only school, outside of those who were formerly G5 or left the Big East

Did they though?   Still an 8 win team, with 4 cupcakes on the schedule.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

17 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Did they though?   Still an 8 win team, with 4 cupcakes on the schedule.

I think they were honestly content with that as long as they could say “we got away from Texas”.

Delusion can be an avenue to happiness.

I don’t think any of those other fanbases actually enjoy college football more.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think they were honestly content with that as long as they could say “we got away from Texas”.

Delusion can be an avenue to happiness.

I don’t think any of those other fanbases actually enjoy college football more.

Yeah perception is reality I guess.   They definitely got a lot of free exposure with ESPN and massive over rankings, but outside buying classes and coaches that didn't pan out, they haven't done better, outside the first year they moved, when they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

aggy is the only school, outside of those who were formerly G5 or left the Big East, that achieved any positive goal (outside of more money) by switching conferences in the past

pedder, pig and cock?

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

4 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

10 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

pedder, pig and cock?

Farther back than I care to analyze, but I think pig would have been better off waiting and joining the Big 12 instead of Baylor.  Maybe the Big 12 works out.

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

11 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah perception is reality I guess.   They definitely got a lot of free exposure with ESPN and massive over rankings, but outside buying classes and coaches that didn't pan out, they haven't done better, outside the first year they moved, when they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

you stupid sip, we have more money than god because we moved (narrator: AUF payments increased 400% over the past decade) and we got a FREE stadium that's bigger than yours! (narrator: only mortgaged for another several dozen years)

[Hurtlocker 2208]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Farther back than I care to analyze, but I think pig would have been better off waiting and joining the Big 12 instead of Baylor.  Maybe the Big 12 works out.

Had the original B12 stuck together, it would have been on a similar ground as the SEC/B1G prior to the recent moves.   And, with Colorado there, they would have been a better suitor for AZ/ASU, UCLA/USC for 16, giving them the one negative that wasn't caused by self-destructive behavior, more people in more states.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

you stupid sip, we have more money than god because we moved (narrator: AUF payments increased 400% over the past decade) and we got a FREE stadium that's bigger than yours! (narrator: only mortgaged for another several dozen years)

haha, and this:

['stache 21774]

Missouri was surely given a serious look from the BIG but they chose Nebraska for blueblood status as opposed to larger media markets in Missouri. If Missouri was that bad, SEC would have rejected them too. They had just come off the Chase Daniels years I think too and had some high level success, ranked as high as No. 2 i think. 

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

14 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah perception is reality I guess.   They definitely got a lot of free exposure with ESPN and massive over rankings, but outside buying classes and coaches that didn't pan out, they haven't done better, outside the first year they moved, when they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

I don’t think wins and losses are always the end all be all for fans.  I think it’s pretty unlikely that OU or Texas tangibly improve on the field by moving to the SEC, but there will be a lot more blue bloods coming to town, and both fanbases made it pretty clear how uninterested they were in the Big 12 schedule.  Cincy isn’t going to run the table in the new Big 12, but their fanbase is frothing at the mouth to play on a bigger stage.

Point being, realignment can make a fanbase happier even if they don’t actually win more.  But I don’t think Mizzou, CU, Maryland, or Nebraska fans enjoy their current positions more than the alternative, if they’re being honest.

I believe an Aggy fan who tells me they’re happier in the SEC even if they haven’t gotten any better.

[Hagbard Celine 10763]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

But I don’t think Mizzou, CU, Maryland, or Nebraska fans enjoy their current positions more than the alternative, if they’re being honest.

I believe an Aggy fan who tells me they’re happier in the SEC even if they haven’t gotten any better.

missouri: will never be happy anywhere other than the b1g

ralph: stoned since 70-3, prime would have woked them until the LA treason

turtle: ABSOLUTELY happier, ecstatic to have a seat at the adult's table, re-energized their fanbase for all sports

corn: still can't understand what really happened or why they really left, and how that sent them down the same path as miami; like aggy, they "feel" like they are in a better place, and at least corn stays for the 4th quarter; needs another 10 years of wtf to really soak in before they are ready to start the bargaining stage

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

missouri: will never be happy anywhere other than the b1g

ralph: stoned since 70-3, prime would have woked them until the LA treason

turtle: ABSOLUTELY happier, ecstatic to have a seat at the adult's table, re-energized their fanbase for all sports

corn: still can't understand what really happened or why they really left, and how that sent them down the same path as miami; like aggy, they "feel" like they are in a better place, and at least corn stays for the 4th quarter; needs another 10 years of wtf to really soak in before they are ready to start the bargaining stage

Nobody goes to Maryland games.  They were a big time hoops school 15-20 years ago as well, and way down the pecking order these days.  They anonymously collect checks.

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Aggy is the only school, outside of those who were formerly G5 or left the Big East, that achieved any positive goal (outside of more money) by switching conferences in the past, and now that’s coming to an end with UT joining.

which one are they again?

[TKthunder2 4981]

5 hours ago, Thiefery said:

i don't understand this.. ACC schools will be receiving more money..per school than the new Big12 will be paying their schools.. I think the first year with the 80 million UT/ou buyout for the original 8 schools left will skewer it a bit.. but ACC will be paying more.. their 3rd tier deal (ACC network) also keeps paying more per year like the LHN deal did for UT.

I didn’t make it. Just saw it on the late kick and took a capture. I think this is just Tier One and Tier Two TV payout. So no Tier Three, bowl/CFP/NCAA payouts, conference licensing other revenue.

[TKthunder2 4981]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Missouri was surely given a serious look from the BIG but they chose Nebraska for blueblood status as opposed to larger media markets in Missouri. If Missouri was that bad, SEC would have rejected them too. They had just come off the Chase Daniels years I think too and had some high level success, ranked as high as No. 2 i think. 

The SEC took Mizzou just to balance out the numbers. They were expanding with aggy and wanted a 14th. The only options at the time were Mizzou or West Virginia, and Mizzou was the bigger state which helped with the SECN.

I wouldn’t read much more into it than that. The SEC did the same with South Carolina once they knew they’d be adding Arkansas and had struck out getting any Texas schools.

Both of these tagalong schools are pretty much just trying to stay out of the bottom quarter of the new conference as they are 2 of the 4 SEC team without a national title claims (Vandy/MSU).

[John80 121]

Maryland is a basketball school that was in a great basketball conference and they only moved because their athletics department was in terrible financial shape. They had a lot of classic games against Duke and UNC and that's gone.

[USC Traveler 488]

2 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

haha, and this:

Looking pretty barren the last dozen years. Hmmmm.

The fact that they commemorate a 3-way tie for the B12 South in 2010 tells you everything you need to know.*

 

 

 

*except for the other half of the story- milkmen, jizz jars, fake army, etc, etc.😂

[bullet 1596]

7 hours ago, Thiefery said:

i don't understand this.. ACC schools will be receiving more money..per school than the new Big12 will be paying their schools.. I think the first year with the 80 million UT/ou buyout for the original 8 schools left will skewer it a bit.. but ACC will be paying more.. their 3rd tier deal (ACC network) also keeps paying more per year like the LHN deal did for UT.

That's what lots of reliable sources have said, but the Big 12 keeps making more.  So, I'm still skeptical about the reliable sources.  And this is people like the Athletic saying the ACC TV deal was bigger.  Show me the money!!!!  Then I will believe the ACC deal is bigger.

[bullet 1596]

3 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah perception is reality I guess.   They definitely got a lot of free exposure with ESPN and massive over rankings, but outside buying classes and coaches that didn't pan out, they haven't done better, outside the first year they moved, when they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

Outside the Johnny Manziel year and the Covid year, they haven't finished better than 3rd in the SEC West.  Frequently worse.  Basically the same as they were finishing in the Big 12 South.

['stache 21774]

2 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

The SEC took Mizzou just to balance out the numbers. They were expanding with aggy and wanted a 14th. The only options at the time were Mizzou or West Virginia, and Mizzou was the bigger state which helped with the SECN.

I wouldn’t read much more into it than that. The SEC did the same with South Carolina once they knew they’d be adding Arkansas and had struck out getting any Texas schools.

Both of these tagalong schools are pretty much just trying to stay out of the bottom quarter of the new conference as they are 2 of the 4 SEC team without a national title claims (Vandy/MSU).

Too much money involved to only care about evening the numbers. It was the era of tv subscriptions mattering, adding St. Louis and KC to the footprint was a big deal. BIG had a different issue of too few "big dogs" and I think they hoped Nebraska would add another blueblood (hasn't exactly worked out) which was more important than the TV markets. Big also already had some St. Louis presence due to proximity to Illinois. Just my opinion obviously. 

[Trojan Man 429]

6 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Missouri definitely made a mistake with conference realignment.

Aggy is the only school, outside of those who were formerly G5 or left the Big East, that achieved any positive goal (outside of more money) by switching conferences in the past, and now that’s coming to an end with UT joining.

Missouri, Nebraska, and Maryland all left behind better geography and history to cash checks but not matter, and really hurt the fan experience.

Colorado went backwards in every possible way.  The program slipped, they lost their only out of state rival, and they make less money.

I'm not buying that any school that ended up in the B1G or the SEC made a mistake with realignment.  Conferences exist to provide their members with money, exposure and compelling schedules.  Those two conferences are clearly the best by those metrics.  If continuing to play rivals and more regional schedules outweighed those benefits schools would stay put.  Had Maryland, Missouri and Rutgers remained in their old conferences there is a very good chance they would not get invited today and remain stuck on the outside looking in.  You could argue Colorado screwed up but they always wanted to be in a conference with a Californian presence, the Big 12 team they liked playing the most left for the B1G and they could still end up back in the Big 12.

4 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah perception is reality I guess.   They definitely got a lot of free exposure with ESPN and massive over rankings, but outside buying classes and coaches that didn't pan out, they haven't done better, outside the first year they moved, when they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

I'd argue the opposite.  2012 A&M would not have done as well in the Big 12 as they did in the SEC.  They and Missouri tore shit up their first few years in their new conference because SEC teams were still largely using ball control dinosaur offenses, so the two new guys using offenses that played fast and tried to score every drive and started QBs who could throw the ball more than 10 yards instead of playing not to lose shook things up.  Manziel was an amazing college QB, but he wasn't replacing some walk on scrub.  A&M's final Big 12 QB was a top 10 pick who is still starting in the NFL (Tannehill) and they went 7-6 with him in 2011.  If 2012 A&M kept playing teams that knew what to expect from them and faced similar offenses every week their season would have played out differently than it did shock and awwing a bunch of SEC defenses that (back then) were built to stop between the tackles handoffs and might face 1 good QB all season.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

If you think Missouri and Nebraska’s schedules are more compelling to their fans than the Big 12 slate, you don’t understand Midwest college sports fans.

They gained money and lost everywhere else.

Colorado fucked up so badly that they’ve even LOST money.

[Deej 76568]

5 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

they likely would have played for a natty if they had been in the Big 12.

Narrator: "They wouldn’t."

[Deej 76568]

43 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

I'm not buying that any school that ended up in the B1G or the SEC made a mistake with realignment.  Conferences exist to provide their members with money, exposure and compelling schedules.  Those two conferences are clearly the best by those metrics.  If continuing to play rivals and more regional schedules outweighed those benefits schools would stay put.  Had Maryland, Missouri and Rutgers remained in their old conferences there is a very good chance they would not get invited today and remain stuck on the outside looking in.  You could argue Colorado screwed up but they always wanted to be in a conference with a Californian presence, the Big 12 team they liked playing the most left for the B1G and they could still end up back in the Big 12.

I'd argue the opposite.  2012 A&M would not have done as well in the Big 12 as they did in the SEC.  They and Missouri tore shit up their first few years in their new conference because SEC teams were still largely using ball control dinosaur offenses, so the two new guys using offenses that played fast and tried to score every drive and started QBs who could throw the ball more than 10 yards instead of playing not to lose shook things up.  Manziel was an amazing college QB, but he wasn't replacing some walk on scrub.  A&M's final Big 12 QB was a top 10 pick who is still starting in the NFL (Tannehill) and they went 7-6 with him in 2011.  If 2012 A&M kept playing teams that knew what to expect from them and faced similar offenses every week their season would have played out differently than it did shock and awwing a bunch of SEC defenses that (back then) were built to stop between the tackles handoffs and might face 1 good QB all season.

Plus, their defense wouldn't have been playing against stone age offenses.

[notre dame joe 172]

7 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Definitely east, likely Maryland.   The President of Maryland was a B1G alum, they needed money badly, there are tons of B1G grads in DC, and the DMA is worth far more than Mizzou can provide.

Okay.  I don't recall reading that 'here' at the time.  Rutgers-Maryland was basically one word.

7 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Did they though?   Still an 8 win team, with 4 cupcakes on the schedule.

Outside your region A&M was the TX silver medalist and received as much attention as Michigan State does for you.  Now A&M is spoken of all the time as the the team that gets the top 5 recruiting class and wins 8 games.

4 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

The SEC took Mizzou just to balance out the numbers. They were expanding with aggy and wanted a 14th. The only options at the time were Mizzou or West Virginia, and Mizzou was the bigger state which helped with the SECN.

I wouldn’t read much more into it than that. The SEC did the same with South Carolina once they knew they’d be adding Arkansas and had struck out getting any Texas schools.

Both of these tagalong schools are pretty much just trying to stay out of the bottom quarter of the new conference as they are 2 of the 4 SEC team without a national title claims (Vandy/MSU).

The importance of wins can be seen in how Missouri won the SEC east with their Big1 roster.  I somehow doubt their recruiting rankings could have matched Tenn/Fla/UGA.

[Trojan Man 429]

47 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If you think Missouri and Nebraska’s schedules are more compelling to their fans than the Big 12 slate, you don’t understand Midwest college sports fans.

They gained money and lost everywhere else.

Colorado fucked up so badly that they’ve even LOST money.

I'm sure there are Nebraska fans who wish they still played Oklahoma every year (they got screwed on that one while still in the Big 12) and Missouri fans who wish they played Kansas yearly and Colorado fans who wish they played Nebraska every year.  I'm also sure the vast majority of them wouldn't trade financial security and a future in the B1G or the SEC for sentimental reasons.  I don't see too much concern from Oregon and Washington fans about leaving behind century-old series' against Oregon State and Washington State and Cal and Stanford when they discuss what conference they hope to end up in.

It's easy to write off B1G/SEC membership as only being good for money, but that's because we're used to a world where the other conferences are still somewhat close to their revenue.  That idea will change after a few years of B1G/SEC schools lapping ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 schools in revenue while also getting most of the prime time windows.  Over a decade, conference affiliation will lead to a difference of between a quarter billion to a half billion between B1G/SEC schools and ACC/Big 12/Pac 12 schools.  It would be nice if everyone could have enough resources to be nationally relevant while also maintaining regional schedules and some schools are lucky enough to have both.  For those who aren't every single one is choosing the former.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

28 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

I'm sure there are Nebraska fans who wish they still played Oklahoma every year (they got screwed on that one while still in the Big 12) and Missouri fans who wish they played Kansas yearly and Colorado fans who wish they played Nebraska every year.  I'm also sure the vast majority of them wouldn't trade financial security and a future in the B1G or the SEC for sentimental reasons.  I don't see too much concern from Oregon and Washington fans about leaving behind century-old series' against Oregon State and Washington State and Cal and Stanford when they discuss what conference they hope to end up in.

It's easy to write off B1G/SEC membership as only being good for money, but that's because we're used to a world where the other conferences are still somewhat close to their revenue.  That idea will change after a few years of B1G/SEC schools lapping ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 schools in revenue while also getting most of the prime time windows.  Over a decade, conference affiliation will lead to a difference of between a quarter billion to a half billion between B1G/SEC schools and ACC/Big 12/Pac 12 schools.  It would be nice if everyone could have enough resources to be nationally relevant while also maintaining regional schedules and some schools are lucky enough to have both.  For those who aren't every single one is choosing the former.

I'd argue the exposure is more important than the money for the big brands.   Texas and Ohio State literally cannot spend the money they already have.   Most of the financial benefits are still going to the Washington Generals.   The Globetrotters, on the other hand, benefits more by being on prime time every week, that brings in recruits.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Hurtlocker

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

38 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

I'm sure there are Nebraska fans who wish they still played Oklahoma every year (they got screwed on that one while still in the Big 12) and Missouri fans who wish they played Kansas yearly and Colorado fans who wish they played Nebraska every year.  I'm also sure the vast majority of them wouldn't trade financial security and a future in the B1G or the SEC for sentimental reasons.  I don't see too much concern from Oregon and Washington fans about leaving behind century-old series' against Oregon State and Washington State and Cal and Stanford when they discuss what conference they hope to end up in.

It's easy to write off B1G/SEC membership as only being good for money, but that's because we're used to a world where the other conferences are still somewhat close to their revenue.  That idea will change after a few years of B1G/SEC schools lapping ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 schools in revenue while also getting most of the prime time windows.  Over a decade, conference affiliation will lead to a difference of between a quarter billion to a half billion between B1G/SEC schools and ACC/Big 12/Pac 12 schools.  It would be nice if everyone could have enough resources to be nationally relevant while also maintaining regional schedules and some schools are lucky enough to have both.  For those who aren't every single one is choosing the former.

That cash isn’t doing jack shit for fans.

The game is objectively getting worse for most fans.  Eventually that will drive people away.

And the cash will dry up when people lose interest.

[nd2003 23]

McMurphy  

 

Nebraska President says more is coming 

Edited May 21, 2023 by nd2003

[Jabberwocky 1666]

23 minutes ago, nd2003 said:

McMurphy  

 

Nebraska President says more is coming 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Jabberwocky

[nd2003 23]

13 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

 

Thanks, my dumbass couldn't get it to embed. 

[billfromlaketravis 11362]

Did Notre Dame get the number they were looking for from NBC/Peacock? I haven't heard a peep about it in months. 

[Francisco 2.0 32342]

And here we thought the Big 10 tv deal was signed and sealed when Warren left the conference.  Turns out, the conference still has no final TV deal:

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/37693310/big-ten-new-commissioner-television-deal-coaches-uncertainty

 

Quote

When the Big Ten officially introduced Tony Petitti as its new commissioner nearly a month ago, he listed four immediate priorities in his role as one of the most powerful people in college sports.

The league needs to integrate USC and UCLA for the 2024-25 season, explore the new media rights deal for the expanded College Football Playoff and focus on the tricky issue of name, image and likeness.

 

Quote

Lastly, Petitti prioritized the official completion of the massive television contract worth more than $7 billion negotiated by his predecessor, Kevin Warren. This issue may have seemed like a mere formality, but complications to the much-celebrated deal arose soon after he accepted the job.

Nearly three months before the season kicks off and those TV deals begin, the Big Ten does not have completed longform contracts, which include the fine print details. Instead, Petitti is engaged in significant "horse trading," according to multiple sources, to get the NBC primetime deal finished and figure out what the network calls "outstanding issues" in order to uphold as much value as possible.

 

Quote

"These deals aren't done, and they aren't what they were represented to be from the standpoint of the NBC deal and the availability of all members to participate in November games in primetime," said an industry source.

Interviews with nearly a dozen sources in and around the Big Ten and the college sports industry paint a picture of Petitti sprinting to navigate details left unresolved from his predecessor.

As a result, there's a trail of unhappy athletic directors seeing money disappearing from their bottom line, frustrated television executives and big-name coaches irked about the lack of transparency in details that weren't communicated to them.

 

 

Spoiler

Kevin Warren took over as Big Ten commissioner in January 2020, and in just three years at the helm, he dealt with the COVID-19 pandemic, helped bring USC and UCLA into the conference in a landscape-altering deal, and secured the massive TV payday before heading back to the NFL as team president and CEO of the Chicago Bears.

When he accepted that job, he said he was leaving the Big Ten in a "demonstratively better position," which was true financially as its schools project more revenue than any league over the course of the deal. His work adding USC and UCLA, who join the conference after the 2023-24 season, was widely praised by members and provided a financial jolt to the television deal.

On campus, it's a bit more muddled. Big Ten schools have seen potential revenue disappear the past few months from a contract that was announced back in August as being worth an average of nearly $1 billion per year through the 2029 football season. More than $70 million in total is suddenly in flux -- nearly $5 million per school -- and it has left administrators around the league seeking answers and calling for financial accountability.

Recently, schools have found out:

They are going to have to pay back nearly $40 million to Fox because, according to sources, Warren delivered NBC the Big Ten football title game in 2026 without the full authority to do so. This all has unfolded under the complicated backdrop of the Big Ten conference not actually controlling the rights to the inventory of this latest deal -- the Big Ten Network does, which is majority owned by Fox. (More on that below.)

They are going to have to pay $25 million total for a deal to pay Fox back for lost 2020 football game inventory. This came after an arrangement between Fox and the conference that was unable to muster the lost revenue from the COVID-19 season.

There's tens of millions of dollars of value of the NBC primetime deal in flux, as Petitti has been racing to ensure it keeps as much of its original value as possible. Historically in the Big Ten, after the first weekend in November, schools were not required to play night games for myriad reasons -- health, recovery and campus logistics among them. These were known in league circles as "tolerances," and prior television contracts accounted for them.

Multiple sources told ESPN there's been pushback from a number of schools, including Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, to play those late-November night games under the new contract. That leaves Petitti to figure out how to uphold a deal for hundreds of millions of dollars for primetime games without cooperation from some of the league's marquee teams for part of the regular season's most important month.

Athletic departments and coaches around the Big Ten say they were surprised November night games would be part of the deal. They weren't asked for permission to play them prior to the deal or informed of the change ahead of the deal, according to sources. At the same time, NBC wasn't aware until well after the initial contract was signed this summer that these big-brand schools had historic tolerances that were part of the prior television arrangements and would resist being available.

"NBC was surprised, and I was surprised," said Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel. "We had not discussed, and I had not discussed with anyone in the league to change the tolerances we had agreed upon years ago."

Within the industry, though, there was an expectation that, considering the scope of the deal, all schools would play in prime time.

"The fault here is with the administrators on campus," said another industry source. "How did the presidents, chancellors and athletic directors not know this? The universities all signed off on the deal."

While this is being worked through, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State recently agreed to concessions to make short-term sacrifices to help the league make up for some lost revenue from the NBC deal.

Penn State will play on the road in a short week on Black Friday against Michigan State, a game that was scheduled before Penn State agreed to it. Ohio State will host Michigan State on Nov. 11, the latest-ever home night game in Ohio State history, which is viewed as another concession to help the league through this moment.

"This is what he's walking into right now," another industry source said of Petitti. "Tony is trying to save it, and what Penn State and Ohio State are doing is actually trying to minimize the losses."

Warren did not return requests for comment.

"We're excited to start our Big Ten deal this fall," an NBC Sports spokesman told ESPN. "We had a great relationship with Kevin Warren, and same with Tony Petitti. We're confident that any and all outstanding issues are well on their way to being resolved."

A full understanding of the deal Warren helped negotiate with NBC, CBS and Fox begins with a bizarre twist -- the Big Ten didn't technically own the rights. (Hence the tension over Warren using the Big Ten title game without Fox's permission.)

In 2016, when the Big Ten announced its long-term television deal with Fox and ESPN, the announcement didn't include all the details. One of the things that didn't get disclosed at the time, nor as the new deal was being discussed in recent months, was that the Big Ten Network had acquired all of the league's programming rights back in 2016 through an undisclosed date. The length of that deal with the Big Ten Network from 2016 is carried at least through the current deal, which has been announced through the 2029-30 season.

This relationship was known by athletic directors, television executives at rival networks and officials in other leagues, even if it wasn't announced publicly. It flashed out into the public at various times, including Sports Business Journal reporting in April 2022 that two Fox senior executives were in the room when various media companies -- ESPN, Amazon, NBC and others -- met with the league about their television packages.

What this also essentially meant was the latest round of Big Ten television deals were effectively sub-license arrangements, in which both the Big Ten Network and Fox essentially controlled the rights and worked with the Big Ten to sub-license them off. That meant a majority of the value of the deal had already been sold.

"It was a joint negotiation with the conference and FOX working together and doing deals with these other networks," said an industry source. "They both needed each other to do the deals."

That factor is key to understanding the issues Petitti faces. There are two new partners -- NBC and CBS -- attempting to work out their longform deals. There's a familiar partner, Fox, that's riding shotgun on this bumpy ride, including being upset Warren promised a title game Fox controlled without permission.

The league and Fox had also been in talks with Amazon about the deal that ultimately went to NBC, but according to sources, there was late pushback by key campus stakeholders that some of the biggest brands weren't ready for part of a marquee package to only be available on streaming. That set up the push to get as much money as possible from NBC.

And it leaves the league facing a decision on a potential bonus for Warren, who didn't have a bonus clause tied to a television deal in his contract. Warren's predecessor, Jim Delany, got a bonus of more than $20 million that was announced in 2017, and he's still getting paid for it because he led the negotiation that sold all of the rights through this decade. (The bonus had been in Delany's contract prior to the deal.)

The league has brought in an outside search firm, Korn Ferry, to determine whether Warren's work with this television deal should bring him a bonus.

One certainty is that the Big Ten television deal, despite the size, has not satisfied many coaches around the league.

In a Big Ten Zoom call with Warren and the league's men's basketball coaches this summer after the deal was announced, sources say, Michigan State basketball coach Tom Izzo was critical of Warren for the lack of transparency and consultation on the deal.

Izzo recently said coaches weren't consulted by the league prior to the deal: "One thing about coaches, you're almost asking the wrong people because we're the last to know anything," Izzo told ESPN.

Izzo added that he has "concerns" on the amount of games available only on streaming and said that would be among his first questions to Petitti, as "it was not discussed with us [coaches] at all."

"Those are some things I'd like to see with the new commissioner, that there's some transparency in working together," Izzo said.

Izzo's concerns reverberate among the rest of the Big Ten coaches, as Ohio State coach Chris Holtmann added: "For our league to continue to grow and evolve in this new era, I think at the very minimum the veteran coaches like (Izzo and Purdue's Matt Painter) should have a direct line of communication and a voice in the conversation."

Ohio State football coach Ryan Day echoed Izzo's sentiment about communication and transparency.

"There was a collective disappointment among coaches on how the night game issue was handled," Day said. "We were surprised when it emerged, and there was no consultation on the change with coaches as a group prior to the television contract being announced."

 

[camel at sea 589]

21 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Outside your region A&M was the TX silver medalist and received as much attention as Michigan State does for you.  Now A&M is spoken of all the time as the the team that gets the top 5 recruiting class and wins 8 games.

The problem was that they weren't perceived as the silver medalist in Texas anymore.  aggy was considered (competitively) one of the big dogs of the conference when it formed, but they were mediocre within the league for almost their entire run in it.  RC couldn't keep up with Mack or Stoops or Leach.  The Pirate owned them for his decade in Lubbock.  Mike Gundy had four wins in a row against them when they exited.  I remember reading that one of aggy's admins said their brand was pretty indistinguishable from Tech's at the time that they left for the SEC. 

You could make a pretty good argument that one of the Big 12's most destabilizing forces was that it's lower middle class beat its lower upper class too often.  NU, CU, and aggy all entered the conference nationally dominant and all left on long runs of relative mediocrity.   

[TKthunder2 4981]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

I remember reading that one of aggy's admins said their brand was pretty indistinguishable from Tech's at the time that they left for the SEC.