Realignment talk not going away

USC Traveler · May 25, 2023

10 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

That line of thinking just blows my mind. Maybe being in the PAC got them the nomination/sponsorship from a PAC AAU school and the votes from other PAC AAU schools, but the way the AAU works is you have to have the research dollars first to even qualify to be nominated. Joining an athletic conference does not provide a mechanism to increase your research dollars. And I seriously doubt Cal, Stanford, or one of the other AAU PAC schools gave a shit that Utah was in their athletic conference when it came time for AAU consideration. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems the AAU thing is only related to athletic conference alignment if you have it to begin with.

I honestly don't know how it works with becoming AAU, although I'm sure there's a good amount of politics and personal relationships involved.

Utah fans definitely believe PAC membership is a big factor in all of it, and I feel like there may have even been quotes from their admin about how being in the PAC has helped the school overall.

For whatever reasons, Utah seems to be "Ride or die-PAC to the end."

CustersDoctor · May 25, 2023

1 hour ago, USC Traveler said:

2. By paying the B12 at this rate, it becomes easy to kill the PAC by lowballing them. Schools will essentially be forced to jump. If they get CU, UA and ASU, when you combine them with BYU, you've got enough late-night games to give ESPN the "After Dark" window by only paying 3 PAC teams instead of 10.

From a networks point of view one of the worst part of a conference deal is that they're forced to carry the bottom dwellers in some prime slots at least twice a year. By NOT bidding for PACX content they seal its fate. The top 6 schools will go to the Big12 leaving the four worst TV schools behind. ESPN & Fox end up with the gravy at 31million a year and don't have to broadcast OST, WST, Cal and whoever the 4th worst school is. (depending on where one looks the 4th worst TV draw in the PACX is either STANFORD or AST)

camel at sea · May 25, 2023

50 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Other than Tech those were all rank v ranked games, while it’s undoubtedly a good indicator, it is not a sustainable metric of success.

I’ll say it again, 3 things drive college football:
nationally relevant rivalries
big time brands
ranked v ranked matchups

You can get lucky with rankings occasionally but that doesn’t drive value that will be recognized by the networks

When FOX and ABC have ranked v ranked games to put on TV the Big 12 looks good, but what will the ratings look like when you don’t have a great ranked v ranked game of the week, or an undefeated team that draws national interest?

For the answer you can look at the PAC12 who despite being OTA nationally on FOX they were only the 7th most watched game of the week behind games on cable.

The Big 12 is going to produce a few teams, nearly every single year, with good records. That's just a function of conference scheduling. Those teams will be ranked. When they play each other, they're going to draw an audience. The American conference has done that fairly often over the last few years and the new Big 12 is much better than the American.

Ranked Big 12 games > ranked PAC games because people in Texas and Oklahoma care about college football more than people on the west coast.

John80 · May 25, 2023

Research funding has nothing to do with athletics or athletics conferences. UC-San Francisco is in the top 3 of research funding every year and they have never had any sports.

Hurtlocker · May 25, 2023

56 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

The Big 12 is going to produce a few teams, nearly every single year, with good records. That's just a function of conference scheduling. Those teams will be ranked. When they play each other, they're going to draw an audience. The American conference has done that fairly often over the last few years and the new Big 12 is much better than the American.

Ranked Big 12 games > ranked PAC games because people in Texas and Oklahoma care about college football more than people on the west coast.

People in nearly every state care about football more than the west coast.

General Specific · May 25, 2023

Bama/LSU/Ole Miss/Arkansas make up only 5 of our OOC games in the last 10 years. There are still plenty of quality teams outside of the SEC that will bring in eyeballs: ND, tOSU, Mich, Pedo, Wisc, Neb, Mich St, USC, UCLA, FSU, Clem, UNC, Miami, VT, Ore, Wash
The ones in bold are teams we’ve played recently or already have on the schedule.
I don’t see this as a loss of the general fan. Even if you lose the blockbuster 10 million viewer game every few years this will likely attract more 4 million viewer games that Texas and Oklahoma haven’t been able to consistently do with our Big 12 schedules.
Consistent premium quality is better for fans than getting a blockbuster once every half decade of so. I’d rather fuck the hottest milf at the country club every week than hold out for a super model every five years.
https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-football/the-4-million-club/97791125/

Umm, pics not loading!

Uncle Nate · May 25, 2023

billfromlaketravis · May 25, 2023

I think the ACC is f***ed until probably 2034 or 2035. Everything else is FSU mental masturbation. UT has pretty good attorneys and they declined to challenge to the GOR. FSU won’t fare better.

The SEC will have a full decade of 16 teams/Texas and OU to figure if they need to do anything.

The North Carolina and Virginia TV sets sound great. But at best, Virginia is DC and that’s a NFL city. North Carolina is all hoops. Clemson is great at football, but in a pretty small state. FSU is interesting. Big state that seems pretty evenly divided along Gator and Seminole lines. Yes I understand UF is a much better school. Miami is like Coug High just better football and school.

I think FSU’s biggest problem is they don’t have a good SEC dance partner. They need to pray UNC gets really good at football really fast. Good luck with that.

Not a Sock · May 25, 2023

Utah is just OSU, KSU or TCU in the mountains, they have a really good gig right now and I can see why they cling to it. They are a school that actually gives a shit, puts efforts towards its program with fan support and resources and gets to play the plucky underdog while the beating the shit out of programs that don’t care and only need to knock off an overrated USC or Oregon once every other year. They join the Big 12 and all of a sudden every week is a dog fight and their now everyone’s target instead of being the plucky little team trying to pull the upset.

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

4 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

And I love that you left out UU in that. I didn't know or think much about Utah before all this happened, but I have grown to dislike their fanbase quite a bit the past few months. They appear to be more delusional and arrogant than aggy...and that's saying something.

They're not just delusional and arrogant, they are toxic. Their whole identity is Pac 12 membership and hating on BYU and a religion affiliated with BYU through which they use rooting for UU football as a medium. They are simply negative and toxic to the core.

https://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=16820218

Edited May 25, 2023 by FartingDreamer

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

4 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Utah is just OSU, KSU or TCU in the mountains, they have a really good gig right now and I can see why they cling to it. They are a school that actually gives a shit, puts efforts towards its program with fan support and resources and gets to play the plucky underdog while the beating the shit out of programs that don’t care and only need to knock off an overrated USC or Oregon once every other year. They join the Big 12 and all of a sudden every week is a dog fight and their now everyone’s target instead of being the plucky little team trying to pull the upset.

They lose most of their recruiting advantages joining the Big XII and get relegated back to square one to a degree with having BYU in the same conference. Their whole identity is being in a P5 conference and rubbing BYU's nose in it. Now that that is no longer the case and even at risk of being turned on its head, they are in the denial and bargaining stage and it is entertaining to say the least.

Edited May 25, 2023 by FartingDreamer

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

Looks like by his recent neg-rep that Thunderlounge choses to be a realignment-little-asshurt-little bitch.

thunderlounge · May 25, 2023

Just now, FartingDreamer said:

Looks like by his recent neg-rep that Thunderlounge choses to be a realignment-little-asshurt-little bitch.

No, you little trolling fuckface. You started the shit. So if you can't take it, don't try to dish it.So shut the fuck up, and know your place before you find your magic drawers pulled up over your fucking little head.

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

1 minute ago, thunderlounge said:

No, you little trolling fuckface. You started the shit. So if you can't take it, don't try to dish it.So shut the fuck up, and know your place before you find your magic drawers pulled up over your fucking little head.

LOL at you little bitchassed-fuckface, you brought on this shit, don't blame me for your toxicity.

2 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

No, you little trolling fuckface. You started the shit. So if you can't take it, don't try to dish it.So shut the fuck up, and know your place before you find your magic drawers pulled up over your fucking little head.

My "magic drawers" were happily pulled down to the floor by your mother.

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

This is sad and pathetic. Thunderlounge has to be a little bitch and expend all of his negative rep on being a little bitch on me and others. How pathetic!

Hurtlocker · May 25, 2023

Inside the Big 12's 'ironclad' grant of rights contract that helped keep the ACC together amid turbulence

A decade or so ago the Big 12 and ACC were having discussions about playing future nonconference games against one another. Nothing as radical as realignment but enough that the Big 12 gave the ACC access to the league's most significant legal tool -- its grant of rights.

"It was professional courtesy more than anything," recalled Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby.

The grant of rights contracts signed by schools, which literally "grant" the "rights" to broadcast their games to their respective conferences for the term of a league-negotiated media rights deal, have become the foundations of two Power Five conferences' stability.

While every conference holds grant of rights agreements with its member institutions, the ACC modeled its version entirely off the Big 12 document, giving the two conferences an "identical" legal backstop, according to a source who has reviewed both documents.

That has led observer after observer to refer to the contracts with a singular adjective: "Ironclad," Bowlsby said.

So ironclad, in fact, that Big 12 legal minds developed the strategy relying on a landmark 115-year old Supreme Court case that traced its roots back to British Common Law in the 1600s. So ironclad that the Big 12 incorporated itself in Delaware, a state so business-friendly that 65% of Fortune 500 companies file their incorporation papers there.

So ironclad that the verbiage in these contracts might have saved both conferences from near-extinction.

While Texas and Oklahoma did cause significant upheaval in leaving the Big 12, it cost the programs a combined $100 million to exit the league in 2024, a year before the Big 12's grant of rights was to expire. (The schools had already notified the Big 12 they wouldn't agree to an extension of those rights.)

On Wednesday, the ACC stiff-armed rumblings of a mutiny by going to a performance-based revenue model. It's seemingly unbreakable grant of rights quelled any talk of a more significant uprising.

An effort by seven programs -- led by Clemson and Florida State with Miami, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia and Virginia Tech in tow -- resulted in few options as the schools' legal departments have reportedly been attempting to find a way to break that agreement. The current ACC grant of rights binds the schools together until 2036.

Although not exactly a picture of harmony, the Big 12 and now the ACC have successfully retained their membership. While the ACC changed its revenue model this week, two years ago, the Big 12 rallied quickly adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF to fill some of the void left by Texas and Oklahoma.

If programs try to leave conferences without proper notice or negotiation, the grant of rights ensures the departing schools' broadcast rights/revenues remain within their television contract. Court battles over grants of rights have largely been avoided in the realignment era (since 2010), though there have been some bitter fights over the years.

Before Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 lost Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M in the early 2010s. As the SEC and Big Ten expanded, reaping increased media rights revenue along the way, they left the rest of FBS in the financial dust.

The issue now is not the SEC and Big Ten being ahead of everyone else, it's the gap between those two and the rest of their Power Five brethren. Once the new media rights contracts fully kick in, they will be earning at least $30 million more annually than the average ACC school.

That alone has caused consternation within the league. It would cost a reported $120 million for an ACC school to leave early, not counting a monster negotiation to get out of the grant of rights. But with 13 years to go on that ironclad agreement -- and with little leverage -- the ACC got its schools to fall into line.

The ACC concluded a period of unrest Wednesday by announcing it has adopted revenue "success initiatives." Teams that perform successfully in revenue-producing postseason competition will earn additional money, ending the traditional method of sharing revenue equally.

There was no other choice. Two industry experts with experience valuing media rights told CBS Sports that -- for all the complaining by those seven schools -- it is doubtful they would bring pro rata (equal value) if they were to depart the ACC for the SEC.

Those ACC schools seemingly had nowhere to go and lacked the financial will to challenge the grant of rights in court given its ironclad nature. Start with that Delaware incorporation.

"It was unusual to build a grant of rights around federal copyright law," Bowlsby explained of the Big 12's contract. "The thing that was important about that: any disputes would be heard in federal court in Delaware, not in a state court."

That a huge advantage for a league that might otherwise have to contend with Texas (Big 12) or Florida State (ACC) battling its conference with homefield advantage in a state court.

The Big 12 legal team had the answer when their 2012 TV deal was finalized. They needed a strategy that found a jet sweep around the 11th Amendment, which includes the concept of state sovereign immunity.

That 115-year old landmark Supreme Court case, Ex parte Young, circumvents state sovereign immunity to allow lawsuits in federal courts for injunctions against state officials if they act against federal law or the U.S. Constitution. It essentially lays the groundwork for a conference to sue a school leaving early for another conference.

The Stanford Law Review called the decision "the cornerstone of modern constitutional litigation."

Explained an attorney who has viewed the Big 12's grant of rights: "Every state has different sovereign immunity laws. Especially in Texas, it's very hard to sue a state institution like a state university. Ex parte Young is a way to try to get around those issues. It would allow you to sue the president of a university if he tried to take Team X to another conference [violating the grant of rights]."

Beyond Bowlsby, the persons behind the Big 12's grant of rights research and strategy did not wish to be identified.

Challenging the contract in court would expose a school to unknown and uncertain liabilities, both legal and financial. It would not know how much it would have to pay to get out, whereas exit fees are largely negotiable. Example: Maryland paid a $50 million exit fee to leave the ACC for the Big Ten in 2014.

In that shocking July 2021 development, Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving the Big 12 for the SEC after the existing grant of rights expired in 2025. The Big 12 quickly rallied to assemble an unequal revenue sharing plan for the two schools. Unlike what the ACC accomplished Wednesday, that strategy did not work for the Big 12.

Then it just came down to that negotiation. Earlier this year, the Big 12 announced a deal for the Longhorns and Sooners to leave one year early in 2024, netting the league $100 million.

Neither school dared challenge the grant of rights itself.

After Texas and Oklahoma declared their intentions two years ago, Bowlsby doubled back and vetted the vulnerability of his grant of rights with a New York litigation firm.

"I asked them to tear it apart," Bowlsby said. "They came back and said, 'This is ironclad. You can take it any federal court in the country and win.'"

Because of the rigid nature of the language contained within the grant of rights, Bowlsby added that any issue arising from it is "going to end up having to be a negotiation, not a court trial."

A costly negotiation at that.

An ACC league source last year told CBS Sports, at that time, it might have cost as much as $500 million total to exit the league, including its grant of rights, as there were then 14 years left on the deal. Other estimates have been lower but still significant.

The ACC is neither naïve nor innocent in this endeavor. It just finds itself with internal turmoil. Former commissioner John Swofford's daring raid to expand the league helped collapsed the old Big East. He negotiated a 2016 media rights amendment with ESPN that established the ACC Network and pushed the agreement out 20 years.

Now, as other conferences have passed the ACC, its grant of rights might as well be a one-ton blocking sled on every ACC practice field.

"Well, all I can say is that same grant of rights has been in other conferences, and no one has really challenged it," Miami athletic director Dan Radakovich told the Miami Herald this week. "So, not being a lawyer, I don't know the tenets of it. But just being a lay person, it must be pretty good if no one has tried to challenge it."

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

@thunderlounge if you're going to be a little bitch and neg me in any less-visible post, then why don't you have the balls and neg me in the more public threads? Don't worry, I know, you just don't like being outed for being a petty, little, bitch.

thunderlounge · May 25, 2023

6 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

This is sad and pathetic. Thunderlounge has to be a little bitch and expend all of his negative rep on being a little bitch on me and others. How pathetic!

The only little bitch is you. As you proved earlier. If you can't take it, don't dish it. Now go back to sucking that fucking joseph dick, you dumb little fuck. Spin it all you want, but you come outta nowhere and start dishing. Then want to run your mouth when confronted. Fuck. You.

FartingDreamer · May 25, 2023

You're the one who has proven you can't take it. Not surprising given that your fragility is based on being associated to a school by a T-shirt. EABOD Motherfucker!

Edited May 25, 2023 by FartingDreamer

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

@thunderlounge has to be a mass-neg-repping little bitch because he cannot handle views differing from his own narrow little mind. How pathetic, dude needs to get a fucking life.

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

Don't start shit. Won't be shit.

You really, really truly are a piece of shit. I can't imagine how shit-fucked your poor little life is to be so fucking pathetic of an excuse for a human being. You really should leave. Your little feelers are going to get hurt.

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

1 minute ago, FartingDreamer said:

@thunderlounge has to be a mass-neg-repping little bitch because he cannot handle views differing from his own narrow little mind. How pathetic, dude needs to get a fucking life.

And for the fucking record. I mostly stay out of it. So eat shit you worthless cum stain.

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

Just now, thunderlounge said:

Don't start shit. Won't be shit.

You really, really truly are a piece of shit. I can't imagine how shit-fucked your poor little life is to be so fucking pathetic of an excuse for a human being. You really should leave. Your little feelers are going to get hurt.

You clearly, are the shit-starting POS. You're whole existence relies upon the value of your t-shirts. How pathetic.

Just now, thunderlounge said:

And for the fucking record. I mostly stay out of it. So eat shit you worthless cum stain.

Cum stain? That can be found on your mother's gown?

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

2 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

And for the fucking record. I mostly stay out of it. So eat shit you worthless cum stain.

The only shit you stay out of is that involving relevancy.

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

22 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Don't start shit. Won't be shit.

You really, really truly are a piece of shit. I can't imagine how shit-fucked your poor little life is to be so fucking pathetic of an excuse for a human being. You really should leave. Your little feelers are going to get hurt.

You're the one starting shit. Leave me the fuck alone and there won't be any "shit" to pretentiously bitch about.

Uncle Nate · May 26, 2023

Thunderlounge is a Ute?

Laxtonto · May 26, 2023

4 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Thunderlounge is a Ute?

This level of insanity and hate to me just reaffirms that the B12 would be foolish not to add Utah just for the value of these two hating on each other as conference mates..

vs

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

19 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Thunderlounge is a Ute?

Given his toxicity? Most likely!

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

22 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

You're the one starting shit. Leave me the fuck alone and there won't be any "shit" to pretentiously bitch about.

Utah is hateful and toxic, but the Holy War would certainly add a tremendous rivalry to the conference which would add ratings and value.

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

21 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

You're the one starting shit. Leave me the fuck alone and there won't be any "shit" to pretentiously bitch about.

Try to victimize yourself all you want. Ain’t nobody buying what you’re selling. You're worse than that little dog following Spike around all the time.

You’ve crossed someone that will not stand down to your bullshit and you do not like it one bit.

Here’s some free advice for ya:

Get used to it.

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

1 minute ago, thunderlounge said:

Try to victimize yourself all you want. Ain’t nobody buying what you’re selling. You're worse than that little dog following Spike around all the time.

You’ve crossed someone that will not stand down to your bullshit and you do not like it one bit.

Here’s some free advice for ya:

Get used to it.

LOL, and I'm guessing your community college academic semester syllabuses, afford you the time to live on an internet message board? Oh you tough internet "badass." how cute!

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

Wow. That almost made me laugh. Try harder.

I’ve shit better turds in combat zones.

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

17 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Wow. That almost made me laugh. Try harder.

I’ve shit better turds in combat zones.

Combat zone = on your mother's chest?

Edited May 26, 2023 by FartingDreamer

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

I’m not going to dignify that with a response.

Fuck you for hating America.

FartingDreamer · May 26, 2023

2 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

I’m not going to dignify that with a response.

Fuck you for hating America.

Thank you for admitting intellectual defeat. At least you are being honest for once.

thunderlounge · May 26, 2023

41 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

Thank you for admitting intellectual defeat. At least you are being honest for once.

Try again.

closetohumping · May 26, 2023

2 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

You clearly, are the shit-starting POS. You're whole existence relies upon the value of your t-shirts. How pathetic.

Cum stain? That can be found on your mother's gown?

I thought Mormons don’t pull out?

Al_4_ISU · May 26, 2023

Just when I thought this thread had achieved maximum unhinged pettiness.

Got. Damn.

Gidnik · May 26, 2023

3 hours ago, thunderlounge said:

The only little bitch is you. As you proved earlier. If you can't take it, don't dish it. Now go back to sucking that fucking joseph dick, you dumb little fuck. Spin it all you want, but you come outta nowhere and start dishing. Then want to run your mouth when confronted. Fuck. You.

3 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

You're the one who has proven you can't take it. Not surprising given that your fragility is based on being associated to a school by a T-shirt. EABOD Motherfucker!

You’re both witless dish rags. Pick somewhere else to act like shower shoes you fucking ASVAB waivers.

LTbear · May 26, 2023

bullet · May 26, 2023

5 hours ago, Not a Sock said:

Utah is just OSU, KSU or TCU in the mountains, they have a really good gig right now and I can see why they cling to it. They are a school that actually gives a shit, puts efforts towards its program with fan support and resources and gets to play the plucky underdog while the beating the shit out of programs that don’t care and only need to knock off an overrated USC or Oregon once every other year. They join the Big 12 and all of a sudden every week is a dog fight and their now everyone’s target instead of being the plucky little team trying to pull the upset.

Their attendance is nothing special. They are in the bottom 3rd of the P5. They do beat Cal, Stanford, Oregon St. and Washington St. in attendance pretty consistently.

Horn of Gabriel · May 26, 2023

ChickenSandwich · May 26, 2023

Dnaguy · May 26, 2023

closetojumping · May 26, 2023

Can you imagine speaking to a person in real life like that? Louis CK had a bit on things he says in his car and then comparing it to doing it in person to someone and it’s hilarious.

Just imagine walking up to someone in public and saying “You are a fucking shit stain cum rag.” I think I would explode into laughter if some lunatic did that.

Hurtlocker · May 26, 2023

10 hours ago, Gidnik said:

You’re both witless dish rags. Pick somewhere else to act like shower shoes you fucking ASVAB waivers.

When I hand out insults I want them to sound this good, but they never do.

gatormarc · May 26, 2023

9 hours ago, bullet said:

Their attendance is nothing special. They are in the bottom 3rd of the P5. They do beat Cal, Stanford, Oregon St. and Washington St. in attendance pretty consistently.

I'll give them credit. They've been increasing capacity and upgrading the stadium ever since they joined the Pac.

They've been selling out consistently the last couple of years, and a lot of them traveled to Florida last year.

We were hoping to go to the Utah game this year but it's a pricey ticket on secondary market.

The cutoff for UF season football ticket holders to get to buy away tickets to the game calculated to roughly a $100,000 lifetime donation.

Found a pic from last year. I didn't get a good photo of just the Utah fans in attendance but you can see a fair amount traveled.

https://i.imgur.com/rsLLb4E.jpg

Deej · May 26, 2023

2 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Thankfully, their moms had to get them dressed and ready for school this morning. We needed a break.

Red Five · May 26, 2023

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Can you imagine speaking to a person in real life like that? Louis CK had a bit on things he says in his car and then comparing it to doing it in person to someone and it’s hilarious.

"Imagine you get on an elevator and the guy stands too close to you or something. 'Fuck you! Worthless piece of shit!'."

closetohumping · May 26, 2023

7 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"Imagine you get on an elevator and the guy stands too close to you or something. 'Fuck you! Worthless piece of shit!'."

Fuck you, we're in the power 2 now bitch. Been sucking on our teets long enough.

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