Realignment talk not going away

['stache 22117]

So some teams have three permanent rivals, some two, some one, and some none? That's weird as fuck and seems less than ideal to even try any form of consistent rotation.

Edited June 8, 2023 by 'stache

[Sbbruin 22082]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Bro, we were the last all white football National Champions. We are the last who should be casting stones. And please stop derailing. 

[camel at sea 589]

20 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

My plausible dream scenario for Grinch is he improves the defense to the 50s overall range, which should be enough to make the playoff with Riley's offense, and some AD decides to make him their head coach.  With the portal and recruiting reinforcements I think that's a doable goal.  USC gets a CFP appearance with a QB capable of carrying a team to the title, the defense shows enough improvement to start tamping down the "USC doesn't play defense" narrative and Riley has to hire a new DC without the bad press of firing a DC.

This could be copy/pasted from an OU board during Riley's tenure in Norman.  I think the hidden problem with Riley is that Bennie Wylie is running his S&C program.  Riley seems married to a soft S&C philosophy, which helps in recruiting, but hurts LOS play, defense generally, and team discipline generally.  It also repels good DCs from wanting to work for him.

[closetojumping 65256]

Hell of a set-up for Rhule in Year Two. They get CU at home and then do not face USC, Michigan, or Ohio State. He'll go 9-3 or better in 2024 if he's as good as he looked to be at Baylor.

[SimonBolivar 11035]

20 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Hell of a set-up for Rhule in Year Two. They get CU at home and then do not face USC, Michigan, or Ohio State. He'll go 9-3 or better in 2024 if he's as good as he looked to be at Baylor.

He calls it a process though (or at least did here) where he changes a culture slowly and didn't put up a really good team until year 3. 

[USC Traveler 488]

28 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

This could be copy/pasted from an OU board during Riley's tenure in Norman.  I think the hidden problem with Riley is that Bennie Wylie is running his S&C program.  Riley seems married to a soft S&C philosophy, which helps in recruiting, but hurts LOS play, defense generally, and team discipline generally.  It also repels good DCs from wanting to work for him.

Yeah- that's why I'm looking for either massive success or abject failure from Grinch this year.

I want him to either prove me wrong or fail badly enough that Riley has no choice but to fire him and bring in an elite DC.

Hopefully the new DC will be able to influence some of the other aspects of the program.

If Wylie is a big of a problem as folks in Norman say he is (I haven't been able to judge yet either way), it will show that first season in the BIG.

But I haven't been able to get a good read on S&C issues when Grinch is playing a scheme that leaves huge gaps to run through on every play because he's dropping his best DL 10 yards off the LOS.

Or when he lines up 3 DL and 5 DBs on 3rd and goal from the 2 against a Utah team with a physical running QB in Rising.

Or when he plays Zero Coverage up 10 points with less than 2 minutes left in the game and gives up a quick TD.

I could go on and on from just one season, so I can only imagine your list of Grinch's incompetence, Camel.😂

 

Side note- How do you think the soft S&C program helps in recruiting ?  I would think it would hurt recruiting.

Edited June 8, 2023 by USC Traveler

[Trojan Man 429]

19 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

This could be copy/pasted from an OU board during Riley's tenure in Norman.  I think the hidden problem with Riley is that Bennie Wylie is running his S&C program.  Riley seems married to a soft S&C philosophy, which helps in recruiting, but hurts LOS play, defense generally, and team discipline generally.  It also repels good DCs from wanting to work for him.

I understand, I wasn't thrilled with Riley bringing Grinch to USC.  He has a huge blind spot for his DC.  It's his biggest weakness as a head coach.  Despite that I see a realistic path to improvement and Grinch's defenses did improve every year at OU, even if they were never amazing.  With how prolific USC's offense will be next year the defense doesn't have to be on par with Georgia.  It just can't give up 60 second scoring drives immediately following a USC TD and let double digit underdogs hang around all game.  Even if Grinch improves the defense enough to make the CFP this fall I still want him gone after that because USC is losing Caleb Williams in 2024.  The next QB will not be able to smooth over defensive problems as well as Williams does so even if Grinch improves as much as I want him to next year I don't think it's sustainable going forward.

As for S&C USC's players look bigger and stronger now than they did when Riley was hired.  If OU replaced Wylie with a better S&C coach you couldn't tell while watching them go 6-7 last year, fielding a defense that was worse than USC's in PPG and YPG.  You don't have to re-enact Junction Boys to get a football team in good shape.

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

Penn State with 0 protected rivalries is interesting.

It's not a "protected rivalry", but it feels like they're giving USC-PSU a two year test drive to see what might come out of it.  Same with USC- Wiscy.

It makes sense.  With UM-OSU locked, USC-PSU matches up the other two teams that have the ability to recruit at an elite level, so it helps with competitive balance, and will make the tv partners happy.

TV will get UM-OSU, USC-PSU and either UM-USC + OSU-PSU or USC-OSU +UM-PSU.  Plus USC-UCLA, UM-MSU, PSU-MSU, and, in even years, USC-ND.

That's a great lineup before even getting into games against Wiscy, Iowa, NU, etc.

[Al_4_ISU 12612]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Must be nice to be in a conference with proper academic, non-racist institutions.  One could only wish...

Non racist you say?

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2023/02/14/iowa-state-jack-trices-fatal-on-field-college-football-trampling/69856882007/

https://www.thegazette.com/iowa-hawkeyes/ui-agrees-to-4-2m-settlement-in-football-racism-lawsuit/

[closetojumping 65256]

30 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

He calls it a process though (or at least did here) where he changes a culture slowly and didn't put up a really good team until year 3. 

Fair enough, but they did a ton of work in the portal and they're going to do more in the next cycle, so there's a good chance that he's able to speed his "process" up if it's not generally bullshit in the first place.

[YGIFS 19456]

Every school in this country is guilty of it.  But there's only one conference remaining who has a majority of members that wear it as badge of honor.  But here we go...

[mdmost 43852]

 

[billfromlaketravis 11784]

I remarked to a friend today that Riley is probably all in on this season. He wants no part of that Big Ten schedule in 2024. I think he’ll bail if a good NFL job opens up. 
 

Raiders might move the needle just enough? Crazy owner is certainly a determent. I don’t think the Cowboys will open up, but who knows?

[Lou_Sassle 2990]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Fair point.  What I get for trying to teach financial literacy this summer to first gen students of color.  Baby steps, i suppose.  The Ass in Athens better be worth it!  

 

[Trojan Man 429]

40 minutes ago, mdmost said:

 

2024 Iowa, Michigan, Penn State is the only combination that looks to have better than one in a billion odds.  I'll make sure to quote myself when Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern and Penn State all go 9-0 in 2025.

37 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I remarked to a friend today that Riley is probably all in on this season. He wants no part of that Big Ten schedule in 2024. I think he’ll bail if a good NFL job opens up. 
 

Raiders might move the needle just enough? Crazy owner is certainly a determent. I don’t think the Cowboys will open up, but who knows?

Let me get this straight, Riley is afraid to compete in the B1G but not afraid to take on the AFC West or the NFC East?  It's easier to beat Patrick Mahomes or Jalen Hurts twice than whatever 20 year olds are starting at QB for Michigan and Penn State in 2024?  He'd rather get one first rounder a year in the NFL instead of landing multiple first rounders every Signing Day at USC?

[YGIFS 19456]

Wait, so I get a green jacket?  

[billfromlaketravis 11784]

11 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

2024 Iowa, Michigan, Penn State is the only combination that looks to have better than one in a billion odds.  I'll make sure to quote myself when Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern and Penn State all go 9-0 in 2025.

Let me get this straight, Riley is afraid to compete in the B1G but not afraid to take on the AFC West or the NFC East?  It's easier to beat Patrick Mahomes or Jalen Hurts twice than whatever 20 year olds are starting at QB for Michigan and Penn State in 2024?  He'd rather get one first rounder a year in the NFL instead of landing multiple first rounders every Signing Day at USC?

I think you should go back and review his comments on the SEC. Riley wants the easiest possible path to a championship. The 2024 Big Ten schedule ain’t it. 
 

The AFC West is a dogshit division outside of the Chiefs. So yes, it’s an easier path. His team would have professional football players too. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[DFW Horn 6637]

23 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Wait, so I get a green jacket?  

Yeah

Let's meet on the 9th green at 9pm for the ceremony.

[bullet 1628]

7 hours ago, Park Gothic said:

I'm sorry but that video was garbage. I don't normally mind Pate, but I couldn't make it through 2 minutes of that revisionist history. 

Total garbage.  I lasted 3 minutes of his fake report.  First, A&M wasn' t going.  That's why Scott flew to Lawrence, KS.

He doesn't even know Dodds was AD, not president.

Here are the facts on the repeated lies about the LHN.

ESPN's offer was made in late October or early November 2010, 5 months after the Pac 16 fell apart.

Everyone thought Fox was going to get the LHN and for about $3 million a year, not $15 million. NOBODY had any idea it would be that lucrative.

There was a press conference at the time.  I don't think the LHN was even mentioned.  Texas was willing to do a joint network with aggy, so a joint network with Tech might have been palatable.  The LHN DID not exist and wouldn't for a couple years.

ESPN and Fox fought the Pac 16 and promised the Big 12 would get comparable money.  Fox even did the deal in advance, giving them a "bonus" with the new rate before the old deal expired (probably for Fox accounting reasons-it was the same cash flow as if the Big 12 got the higher rate early).

So in the press conference, President Powers, said, basically, "Why go through all this and move for the same money?"   He said they worked on schedules to minimize travel and UT realized they could do similar schedules without moving (using ooc).

The Pac 16 did not fail because of the LHN.  It did not fail because aggy didn't want to play.  It failed because the networks didn't want it and offered ALL the Big 12 better money not to do it.

[bullet 1628]

4 hours ago, mdmost said:

Bro, we were the last all white football National Champions. We are the last who should be casting stones. And please stop derailing. 

And this is conference realignment.  He should go to the cloak room for that discussion.

[bullet 1628]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Every school in this country is guilty of it.  But there's only one conference remaining who has a majority of members that wear it as badge of honor.  But here we go...

Ivy League?

[YGIFS 19456]

Yeah, black people wanting to go to college to learn and play football.  Totally political issue you fucking moron . 

Also, outside counsel to UT that originally organized the LHN deal has been retained to untangle it as it were later this month.  Looks like the it's all going away.  

[bullet 1628]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

% of Black students:

UCLA 3.4%

Alabama 9.7%

University of Mississippi 12.1%

University of Georgia 7.5%

University of Texas 4.6%

So take your bs to the cloak room.

 

[bullet 1628]

9 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, black people wanting to go to college to learn and play football.  Totally political issue you fucking moron . 

Also, outside counsel to UT that originally organized the LHN deal has been retained to untangle it as it were later this month.  Looks like the it's all going away.  

Just from observation, but I would be surprised if the ACC, Big 10, Pac 12 and Big 12 had nearly as high a % of Black athletes as the average SEC school.

And as I showed to the Bruin, Texas and UCLA can talk about racism in current SEC schools when our %s are close to theirs.  In the meantime, its a political bash the south move.

[YGIFS 19456]

Yes, because enrollment numbers mean there's no other issues with a state university system.  Does being this stupid hurt?  We're going to the SEC.  I know why.  Doesn't mean we all have to like our new neighbors, backwards-ass as they are.  There's a silver lining to all of this, we may actually get to effectuate some change once we get there.  Could be a good thing long-term for all involved.  And of course, the money won't hurt...

[Satchel 6982]

52 minutes ago, bullet said:

% of Black students:

UCLA 3.4%

Alabama 9.7%

University of Mississippi 12.1%

University of Georgia 7.5%

University of Texas 4.6%

So take your bs to the cloak room.

 

Wow. These numbers cry out for the dissolution of DEI programs at state universities.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

2 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

2024 Iowa, Michigan, Penn State is the only combination that looks to have better than one in a billion odds.  I'll make sure to quote myself when Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern and Penn State all go 9-0 in 2025.

Let me get this straight, Riley is afraid to compete in the B1G but not afraid to take on the AFC West or the NFC East?  It's easier to beat Patrick Mahomes or Jalen Hurts twice than whatever 20 year olds are starting at QB for Michigan and Penn State in 2024?  He'd rather get one first rounder a year in the NFL instead of landing multiple first rounders every Signing Day at USC?

20 seems young for those two

[notre dame joe 202]

5 hours ago, Satchel said:

Wow. These numbers cry out for the dissolution of DEI programs at state universities.

They prove Ole Miss is the least racist institution 🙄

[gatormarc 937]

16 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

SEC went with 8 conference games/1 rival, which means you and OU are each other's rival.

No, they did not.

The number of permanent rivals has not been decided going forward yet.

That's why we'll have a bridge schedule in 2024.

[Lidig8r 1904]

10 hours ago, Satchel said:

Wow. These numbers cry out for the dissolution of DEI programs at state universities.

Wellllll.... not to put too fine of a point on it, but ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/us/texas-dei-program-ban.html

Gobbledygook: This post was in no way intended to be a political post or to express approval or disproval of any political point or stance on any issue involving DEI, such conduct being specifically negated herein. In the event that any such perception is derived from the posting of said link, such perception is merely coincidental and does not reflect the viewpoints of the author. All rights are herein reserved. All hail our Ai Overlords.

[General Specific 3484]

Wellllll.... not to put too fine of a point on it, but ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/us/texas-dei-program-ban.html
Gobbledygook: This post was in no way intended to be a political post or to express approval or disproval of any political point or stance on any issue involving DEI, such conduct being specifically negated herein. In the event that any such perception is derived from the posting of said link, such perception is merely coincidental and does not reflect the viewpoints of the author. All rights are herein reserved. All hail our Ai Overlords.

Username checks

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Did I stumble into the Cloak Room by accident?

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3494]

42 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Did I stumble into the Cloak Room by accident?

 

My thoughts exactly, came here to see the new and improved ways of how the PAC12 fucked itself over and got smacked in the face with this political nonsense...

Can we please get back to the high stakes conference realignment nonsense thats tearing apart the fabric of college athletics?

Edited June 9, 2023 by Evil Bill Obrien
words/grammar are hard

[Hurtlocker 2219]

Yeah let's get this bullshit back on track to wanton speculation and unsourced leaks:

 

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3494]

Just now, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah let's get this bullshit back on track to wanton speculation and unsourced leaks:

 

 

[closetojumping 65256]

15 hours ago, Lou_Sassle said:

 

That guy is the easiest person to ignore on this site outside of futureman. I had him on ignore after reading a few of his posts upon his arrival. I later read that he was formerly "lobo" or whatever and thought "well, that makes sense." I see his nonsense quoted occasionally and think "well, that makes sense."

44 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Did I stumble into the Cloak Room by accident?

 

Yeah, any more of the bullshit and I'm retronegging every post involving the bullshit and recommend that everyone else should do the same. 

[Fud 9697]

16 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I remarked to a friend today that Riley is probably all in on this season. He wants no part of that Big Ten schedule in 2024. I think he’ll bail if a good NFL job opens up. 
 

Raiders might move the needle just enough? Crazy owner is certainly a determent. I don’t think the Cowboys will open up, but who knows?

If you're going to leave a cush USC job that you're good enough to most likely have in perpetuity for the NFL where coaches frequently get fired after two seasons, you sure as hell shouldn't leave for this Raiders team 

[BurntOrange&White 41656]

13 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Yeah let's get this bullshit back on track to wanton speculation and unsourced leaks:

 

 

Wasn't March or April supposed to be some deadline? Just kick that deadline can down the road?

[CustersDoctor 585]

11 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Did I stumble into the Cloak Room by accident?

 

No more Cloak Room crap from me on this thread. Back on topic.

I think the PACX has a 1.8bill 6 year deal ready to sign. That comes out to 30mil a year per school. 60% of the games will be linear. If you think 40% streaming is to much streaming, well that is about what their current ration is. They will wait until early July to sign the deal. The reason they will wait is so that they CANNOT expand. They can't afford to expand. By waiting until after the end of June, SDSU's buyout increases significantly. The PACX wants to have an excuse as to why they are'nt going to add SDSU or anybody else. But it really comes down to wanting to keep as much money for themselves as possible. If they add two schools to get back to 12, then the payout per school drops from 30mil a year to 25mil a year.

[BurntOrange&White 41656]

16 minutes ago, CustersDoctor said:

No more Cloak Room crap from me on this thread. Back on topic.

I think the PACX has a 1.8bill 6 year deal ready to sign. That comes out to 30mil a year per school. 60% of the games will be linear. If you think 40% streaming is to much streaming, well that is about what their current ration is. They will wait until early July to sign the deal. The reason they will wait is so that they CANNOT expand. They can't afford to expand. By waiting until after the end of June, SDSU's buyout increases significantly. The PACX wants to have an excuse as to why they are'nt going to add SDSU or anybody else. But it really comes down to wanting to keep as much money for themselves as possible. If they add two schools to get back to 12, then the payout per school drops from 30mil a year to 25mil a year.

Why do you think that? If that was the case then why isn't it signed? If the alleged GoR is agreed upon and the money and linear access is what you think then there is no reason it isn't signed. Using no more growth is not a good enough reason, they know that.

 

They're all still on the hook for 5.7 million each to Comcast for the next two years so their actual per year for the first two years of a new deal is around 24-25 million, using your 30 million suggestion. It's why they only got paid out 36 million this year in the estimations which is 8 million fewer than Big 12.

 

Big 12's new deal is estimated to pay them all out 50 million after its all said and done. If pac is still around 40-44 million that is significantly less payout over the next two year and the course of their entire deal. That is also with the Big 12 having 2 more members, let that sink in.

Edited June 9, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Teamdirtyleg 1139]

18 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Fair point.  What I get for trying to teach financial literacy this summer to first gen students of color.  Baby steps, i suppose.  The Ass in Athens better be worth it!  

This you?

[CustersDoctor 585]

22 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Why do you think that? If that was the case then why isn't it signed? If the alleged GoR is agreed upon and the money and linear access is what you think then there is no reason it isn't signed. Using no more growth is not a good enough reason, they know that.

 

They're all still on the hook for 5.7 million each to Comcast for the next two years so their actual per year for the first two years of a new deal is around 24-25 million. It's why they only got paid out 36 million this year in the estimations which is 8 million fewer than Big 12.

 

Big 12's new deal is estimated to pay them all out 50 million after its all said and done. If pac is still around 40-44 million that is significantly less payout over the next two year and the course of their entire deal. That is also with the Big 12 having 2 more members, let that sink in.

You're not wrong, but my postulation is just as correct as yours. I don't care who is right, I just want to all end. Just like I want the Fast & Furious franchise to end.

[camel at sea 589]

18 hours ago, USC Traveler said:

Yeah- that's why I'm looking for either massive success or abject failure from Grinch this year.

I want him to either prove me wrong or fail badly enough that Riley has no choice but to fire him and bring in an elite DC.

Hopefully the new DC will be able to influence some of the other aspects of the program.

If Wylie is a big of a problem as folks in Norman say he is (I haven't been able to judge yet either way), it will show that first season in the BIG.

But I haven't been able to get a good read on S&C issues when Grinch is playing a scheme that leaves huge gaps to run through on every play because he's dropping his best DL 10 yards off the LOS.

Or when he lines up 3 DL and 5 DBs on 3rd and goal from the 2 against a Utah team with a physical running QB in Rising.

Or when he plays Zero Coverage up 10 points with less than 2 minutes left in the game and gives up a quick TD.

I could go on and on from just one season, so I can only imagine your list of Grinch's incompetence, Camel.😂

 

Side note- How do you think the soft S&C program helps in recruiting ?  I would think it would hurt recruiting.

Grinch and Wylie together are a nightmare because Grinch's scheme (among its many other problems) prefers small quick guys on the DL and Wylie's regime produces softness and a lack of discipline.  Small guys not playing tough up front is a recipe for failure.  Add to that, even if he's lucked into talented guys on the DL who are also very self-motivated, Grinch rotates them out so much that they aren't making the impact for you that they should.  His last defense at OU had five NFL draft picks in the starting 11 and they were still awful.  The whole scheme is predicated on forcing TOs, but in a game where DBs or LBs drops INT opportunities, you give up 40-50 points and need your QB to be Caleb Williams caliber good.

I think Wylie helps in recruiting because he's good at connecting with guys and being their friend.  Recruits meet him and leave talking about how much they liked him.  The parents, too.  The problem is that at good programs, you don't want your S&C coach to be a player-friendly coach.  They need to be respected, feared, and kind of hated.

[Park Gothic 5343]

22 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

The problem is that at good programs, you don't want your S&C coach to be a player-friendly coach.  They need to be respected, feared, and kind of hated.

Is this the case? I always thought that the S&C was the one the guys are around the most and with whom they need to have the best rapport. Sort of an unofficial liaison between the coaching staff and the players, so the coaches (who may be less approachable) can get a feel for what's happening in the locker room. 

I could be wrong, I'm basing this on what I've read and not personal experience. My S&C coach in college just phoned it in and we had a great relationship with our position coach, so we didn't really have any kind of dynamic other than "lift this" and "run there".  

[notre dame joe 202]

I am simply shocked that the thread diverted into cloak room just because someone played the race card.

[Valmy77 13567]

1 minute ago, notre dame joe said:

I am simply shocked that the thread diverted into cloak room just because someone played the race card.

And why should we care what you are or are not shocked about?

Anyway it just got back on track, so why are you complaining about it?

33 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

Is this the case? I always thought that the S&C was the one the guys are around the most and with whom they need to have the best rapport. Sort of an unofficial liaison between the coaching staff and the players, so the coaches (who may be less approachable) can get a feel for what's happening in the locker room. 

I could be wrong, I'm basing this on what I've read and not personal experience. My S&C coach in college just phoned it in and we had a great relationship with our position coach, so we didn't really have any kind of dynamic other than "lift this" and "run there".  

I don't think most of us have any idea what the dynamics are in major programs. I suspect there are several different workable cultures out there, there might be a place where a 'player's coach' S&C guy might work.

[mdmost 43852]

WSU president claims their media deal will be done in 2 weeks. 

 

[TKthunder2 5058]

1 hour ago, CustersDoctor said:

No more Cloak Room crap from me on this thread. Back on topic.

I think the PACX has a 1.8bill 6 year deal ready to sign. That comes out to 30mil a year per school. 60% of the games will be linear. If you think 40% streaming is to much streaming, well that is about what their current ration is. They will wait until early July to sign the deal. The reason they will wait is so that they CANNOT expand. They can't afford to expand. By waiting until after the end of June, SDSU's buyout increases significantly. The PACX wants to have an excuse as to why they are'nt going to add SDSU or anybody else. But it really comes down to wanting to keep as much money for themselves as possible. If they add two schools to get back to 12, then the payout per school drops from 30mil a year to 25mil a year.

Which linear partner is going to carry 60% of their content?

[YGIFS 19456]

27 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

I am simply shocked that the thread diverted into cloak room just because someone played the race card.

Many alumni of schools in the SEC are racist.  Pointing that out and being bummed out about it is playing the race card/going CR?  Are you seriously this fucking stupid IRL?  

[mdmost 43852]

Just now, TKthunder2 said:

Which linear partner is going to carry 60% of their content?

If Apple is onboard I'd imagine some deal with Disney/ABC/ESPN will be there too. Apple and Disney appear to be getting more and more in bed together.