Realignment talk not going away

[BurntOrange&White 41905]

Just now, 'stache said:

Yormark seems to really want UConn. If he can get UO and UW, I bet the rest of the members and the networks would let him go with them as the 16th member. That leaves the PAC with 7 and they can backfill with SDSU, SMU, and Tulane? Maybe UNLV?

Because he's a basketball mind dipshit. 

[LTbear 4214]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Football is king. You get a much better rivalry game with BYU than anything Arizona can offer.

New market. Nothing to suggest Utah is a better overall long-term investment when you already have BYU. 

[BurntOrange&White 41905]

Just now, mdmost said:

No, they took Colorado because they're trying to destroy the Pac 12 so they can grab the better Pac 12 teams. I don't think they want UConn if they can get better teams out West. 

100%

[Lonestar88 5176]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

No, they took Colorado because they're trying to destroy the Pac 12 so they can grab the better Pac 12 teams. I don't think they want UConn if they can get better teams out West. 

Sure, but the point is there are considerations beyond good football matchups. And those other considerations aren’t in Utah’s favor.

[BurntOrange&White 41905]

Just now, Lonestar88 said:

Sure, but the point is there are considerations beyond good football matchups. And those other considerations aren’t in Utah’s favor.

Fuck Utah

['stache 22145]

If the Big XII can get UO and UW, there’s no real reason to “kill” the PAC. They won’t present any meaningful competition. The only thing they have right now are those two having higher profiles than the new Big XII.

[Crockett 517]

15 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Swap Arizona for Utah. New state/ market, elite basketball.

This is the way.

[BonzoMontreaux 1137]

What's Nebraska up to these days?  

[thunderlounge 8417]

7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Fuck Soak Utah

fify

['stache 22145]

1 minute ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

What's Nebraska up to these days?  

Making dollars and sucking shit.

[Viper 12221]

 

[Deej 77845]

1 hour ago, Texas Wahoo said:

Yeah, I am pretty skeptical of those numbers.  Just taking a quick look at UNC's and NC State's followings - UNC has more on Twitter and 100k more on Instragram.  While NC State has more on Facebook, given that neither team has 100k followers on Facebook, I'm not sure how they ended up with NC State ahead.

Never give up!

 

['stache 22145]

18 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Because he's a basketball mind dipshit. 

It’s a risk but UO and UW are football schools, and is a major coup, and he can use that to convince them to let him take them for basketball purposes. I mean KU is the only real football doormat, and they look decent this year.

Edited July 27, 2023 by 'stache

[Post Oak 20569]

7 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

 

 

cover2.avif

[TrashMaster G 18104]

22 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

I get his issues with all of the others, but why does Ute-boy have a hate-on for Texas and OU?

 

 

9 hours ago, BigHornedLurker said:

Honestly big12 football will be awesome to watch if the domino's fall 

I think we're naturally seeing how the acc will break up as well 

I still think we'll see either relegation or breakaway at some point , but I think the writing is on the wall for 3 super leagues 

The domino's what ???

[tx ind 7057]

12 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

pooooor ponies 

Edited July 27, 2023 by tx ind

[Hurtlocker 2219]

25 minutes ago, mdmost said:

No, they took Colorado because they're trying to destroy the Pac 12 so they can grab the better Pac 12 teams. I don't think they want UConn if they can get better teams out West. 

I'm with you on this, but I still think you take an Arizona team over Utah, even with the recent success of Utah football.   Not that Utah is a bad add, having the Holy War in house is a marketable rivalry game, but they need a flag in Arizona more than they need another in Utah.  I'd probably say this is your order if 1 says no, go to 2, etc.

1. Oregon
2. Washington
3. Arizona
4. Stanford
5. Utah
6. Arizona State
7. Cal
8. Oregon State
9. Washington State

[Hurtlocker 2219]

 

 

[camel at sea 589]

32 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

Sure, but the point is there are considerations beyond good football matchups. And those other considerations aren’t in Utah’s favor.

Yeah, the Big 12 gets 50% of the Holy War games without adding Utah.  Is getting the other 50% worth passing on a Top 15 basketball brand and Arizona's TV market?  I'd guess no.  I don't think that rivalry games moves the needle that much.

 

But if I'm Utah, I'm reading the tea leaves and trying to get my Big 12 application in before the Wildcats do.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by camel at sea

[DeadArmadillo 907]

3 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

What time is the CU board meeting today?

4:20

[Hurtlocker 2219]

Bungled opportunities to raid Big 12, passive leadership has Pac-12 on brink with Colorado departing in 2024

"Colorado's exit now makes it OK to question out loud the process the Pac-12 has taken to this point. Upon losing USC and UCLA, Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff either could not or would not get a media rights deal done in an early negotiating window last summer.  That should have been the first indicator of the league's diminishing value. There continue to be rumors the Pac-12 asked for as much $500 million annually at one point. That's $50 million per team per year, which would have put the Pac-12 in the same orbit as the Big Ten despite two biggest West Coast brands walking out the door."

Quote

The Pac-12 school with the best options finally exercised them. Turns out Colorado had the ability, motivation, history and level of impatience to keep this conference realignment train rolling.

Colorado is back home in the league it once called home for 63 straight years. The CU Board of Regents on Thursday unanimously approved a resolution to return to the Big 12, the conference the Buffaloes helped found in 1996, after 13 seasons in the Pac-12.

Meanwhile, the Pac-12 returns to the negotiating table with one less member. It is now set to have just nine teams in the conference at the start of the 2024-25 athletic season.

Next steps? Perhaps too many to count.

Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark certainly isn't done.

The Pac-12's future existence is now more front and center than ever.

Will enough dominoes fall to cause an even more significant shift in realignment?

What happens in the future remains to be seen. Colorado became the most likely team to leave the Pac-12 due to its deep knowledge of the Big 12 -- having spent 63 years in different iterations of the league, including being a founding member of the "Big 12" itself in 1996 -- and a surge in popularity spurned almost entirely by hiring NFL star Deion Sanders as the Buffaloes new football coach.

It wasn't Oregon and Washington -- the best remaining Pac-12 brands -- that made the move. They may have desire to join the Big Ten, but there's little interest from the nation's richest conference at the moment. It wasn't Arizona (yet); the Wildcats continue to patiently wait for the numbers from a Pac-12 media rights deal that looks to be diminishing by the day.

Colorado spoke loud and clear that at least it perceives the Pac-12 will not be anywhere near the $31.7 million the Big 12 is getting in its new media rights contract from Fox and ESPN.

The Pac-12's failings bear repeating: The league likely had its choice of Big 12 schools -- twice. In 2010, then-commissioner Larry Scott's bold move to raid the Big 12 of half its teams fell just short. More than a decade later, when Texas and Oklahoma announced they were departing for the SEC in 2021, the opportunity existed to pick the bones of a wounded Big 12.

Instead, the Pac-12 stood pat ... and the Big 12 retooled.

Two years later, the paradox can be felt from here to the Left (Behind) Coast.

The Big 12, considered unstable and perhaps headed toward failure in 2021, has now struck a blow destabilizing the Pac-12. Let's hope that's all it is. There remains every chance for the Pac-12 to remain afloat, but what will it look like?

San Diego State seems like an easy replacement for Colorado beginning in 2025. Well, it seemed like an easy replacement for USC and UCLA, except the Pac-12 could not get its media rights ducks in a row quick enough for SDSU to make a decision prior to its Mountain West exit fee doubling.

Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark said earlier this month he'd like to cap expansion at 14 teams once Texas and Oklahoma depart. Colorado's addition move the league to 13 members in 2024, which suggests it is going to be a mad scramble for that 14th spot.

It also signals, once the Big 12 is done -- even if it takes another Pac-12 program -- the Pac-12 should have enough significant teams to remain standing.

UConn remains in play. Yormark still must convince his presidents to buy into both a dramatic move East and the admission of a substandard football program. The benefit of the Huskies? Basketball prominence. The Big 12 could increase its stature as the nation's best college basketball conference.

Early indications are that UConn decision makers are all in, but someone is going to have to pay that $30 million Big East exit fee. 

Survival matters more than money at this point for everyone, really. Yormark wants younger, cooler, hipper. The Pac-12 just wants to solidify its future. The SEC and Big Ten are in the process of turning the Power Five into Power Two.

The Big 12 likes to think it is in a fight with the ACC to become part of the Significant Three.

The loss of prestige has hit the Pac-12 hard with the conference dropping a pair of top-20 markets -- No. 2 (Los Angeles) and No. 16 (Denver). It went from having four schools with football national championships to one (Washington). Suddenly, the Big 12 has three times as many schools that have won a natty (BYU, Colorado, TCU).

As for the Pac-12, it must double down and figure out how to keep Oregon and Washington happy. Both spoke with the Big Ten as early as last fall. Perhaps giving each a weighted share of media rights revenue makes sense.

There's no room for those two in the Big Ten at the moment as new commissioner Tony Pettiti must first assimilate USC and UCLA into the first 16-team super league of this era.

Colorado's exit now makes it OK to question out loud the process the Pac-12 has taken to this point. Upon losing USC and UCLA, Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff either could not or would not get a media rights deal done in an early negotiating window last summer.

That should have been the first indicator of the league's diminishing value. There continue to be rumors the Pac-12 asked for as much $500 million annually at one point. That's $50 million per team per year, which would have put the Pac-12 in the same orbit as the Big Ten despite two biggest West Coast brands walking out the door.

Talk about outlandish.

Too harsh? Kliavkoff then watched Yormark jump the line by opening his conference's media rights deal early and signing extensions with Fox and ESPN -- the same partners with whom the Pac-12 hoped to negotiate -- the day before Halloween.

Scary? You bet … for the Pac-12. That Big 12 deal essentially took away ESPN and Fox as potential primary linear partners.

Linear continues to mean everything in these changing times. That's why the Big Ten has partnered with CBS, Fox and NBC for college sports' richest media rights deal.

The industry's economic downturn certainly contributed to the Pac-12 problems. It's doubtful ESPN, which holds 63% of the Big 12's $2.3 billion value, could afford to do that deal today given the company just went through another massive round of layoffs.

So, why would there be similar money left for the Pac-12?

The league will most likely stay together, but at what level of relevance?

The Pac-12's proximity to -- and academic engagement with -- Silicon Valley has always been an advantage. However, in a strange twist, the streaming giants that made the region famous have become a contentious discussion point. Since streaming hasn't "hit" quite yet as a major carrier of sports, the Pac-12 seemingly has to land a media rights deal that relies on less than 50% of its dollars coming from that platform.

The lack of visibility on linear TV could rankle Pac-12 athletic directors and coaches. It certainly mattered to Colorado, which will instead earn an equal $31.7 million annual share from Fox and ESPN as a new Big 12 member.

Apple has reportedly been in talks to stream Pac-12 games since 2019. It recently acquired the entire MLS package to mixed reviews. Apple senior vice president Eddie Cue may have recently indicated why the company's interest has yet to result in a deal: "It doesn't work unless it's something significant," Cue told Front Office Sports this week.

Whatever negotiating advantage the Pac-12 might have once had appears to be slipping by the day.

"At this point, I don't care if it pisses everybody off. Do a quick deal with [the likes of] Apple and Fox," media consultant Jimmy Williams said of the Pac-12. "The best deal on the table, you better take it now. If other schools go, other schools go. … Do you really want to be the fifth choice of ESPN or the only choice on Apple?"

Colorado traded that Pac-12 uncertainty for that full share from the Big 12. It traded an uncertain future in one conference for six-plus decades of familiarity in another.

The ultimate irony is that Colorado left the Big 12 back in 2011 because of a perceived lack of stability. Twelve years later, it is seeking that same security in its old conference.

What changed? Not much. In both cases, CU had options.

 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

[VoteforHank 136]

We don’t want AZ schools. We recruit AZ. We don’t want ‘cruits  going AZ. We want more Bijan’s. 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

[BurntOrange&White 41905]

6 minutes ago, VoteforHank said:

We don’t want AZ schools. We recruit AZ. We don’t want ‘cruits  going AZ. We want more Bijan’s. 

We play in the premier college football conference. 

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, Sir Ulrich said:

RE Oregon not moving the needle for the Big 10. They were 12th in avg viewership per game last year above all current and future Big 10 teams outside of Michigan, tOSU, and Penn State. 

Over the last 15 years, when you exclude games against ND and all 2024 BIG/SEC members, UO, UW and Stanford are all in a similar tier.  
 

They’re below FSU, Clemson and Miami, and not that much above Wazzu, which overperformed under Leach.

UO has scheduled a lot of SEC teams plus OSU ooc during that time, which helps boost their ratings.

They’re not additive to the BIG and don’t have any internal support.

BIG priorities: ND, then the ACC.

[Dark Horse 2430]

32 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

Still would, we’ve put on about the same amount of weight since the early 2000s. 

[BurntOrange&White 41905]

 

[Crockett 517]

25 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

 

 

BYU athletics media team is top tier.

[Huckleberry 34677]

30 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

"Colorado's exit now makes it OK to question out loud the process the Pac-12 has taken to this point.

No, that's been okay for people with intellectual integrity for a long time now. Media mouthpieces who sold their integrity for access may have a different view. 

[DanTheHorn 5088]

59 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I'm not a fan of the Pac 12 going away but if it's grabbing 1-3 of them versus Group of 5 then kill the Pac 12. 

Pack 12 was dead after USC and UCLA left as was the BIG12 after Texas and OU left. The good news for the BIG 12 is that the ACC is still full of attractive members so it will be raided by the BIG 10 and SEC. Leaving the BIG 12 to choose who they want if they kill the PAC 12 for good. Yet I see the BIG 12 dissolving anyway and the most attractive remaining members of the PAC12, BIG 12 and ACC merging.

 

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

I'm not a fan of the Pac 12 going away but if it's grabbing 1-3 of them versus Group of 5 then kill the Pac 12. 

Good to see you in here md- jut like the old days on the Shag.  

Speaking of which, the PAC went away when we were all posting in the old Shaggy thread- when Champagne Larry and the Presidents decided not to partner with ESPN or FOX, forced equal revenue sharing on USC and UCLA, then wouldn't let UT bring the LHN to the PAC and rejected OU and the rest of the gang from joining.  USC and UCLA leaving was the death blow.

This conference has been a brain dead zombie for over a year, led by a brain dead clown.  Good riddance to a shit conference.

//

 

I agree with you 100% about what the B12 should do.  UA will join.  Get that closed.  Go after UW and Uo, and if they aren't ready to jump, get ASU and Utah to jump, which will force the PNW to join also.  Three pods of six teams each would be fun.  Then get UL, Pitt and other solid ACC leftovers when ACC dissolves.

Edited July 27, 2023 by USC Traveler

[John80 160]

If Klavikoff is fired the PAC presidents would hire another incompetent buffoon that will make mistakes until the conference is dead. I browsed a Washington board and several of their fans realize the presidents are ultimately responsible for this.

[TexasMan 11458]

NSIAP 

 

[nineliveslost 3009]

 

[USC Traveler 488]

54 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I'm with you on this, but I still think you take an Arizona team over Utah, even with the recent success of Utah football.   Not that Utah is a bad add, having the Holy War in house is a marketable rivalry game, but they need a flag in Arizona more than they need another in Utah.  I'd probably say this is your order if 1 says no, go to 2, etc.

1. Oregon
2. Washington
3. Arizona
4. Stanford
5. Utah
6. Arizona State
7. Cal
8. Oregon State
9. Washington State

With you on this except I'd put UA on top.  Not because they're more valuable, but because they've been the most receptive besides CU and you are the furthest down the road with them.

Most importantly, if they jump in the next week or two, the fear factor on all the other campuses jumps up exponentially, and sets up the endgame to reel in the PNW schools.

//

 

Side note-  I'd also offer to bring in all of them besides WSU and OSU.  Stanford would probably pass, but Cal will be desperate.  UW and UO will want CA recruiting, so you could say you'll add SDSU and make it a B20 with Cal and SDSU to entice the PNW schools.  That would give you enough PT inventory to run B20 after dark on Fri and Sat after the primetime games all year long.

[Crockett 517]

28 minutes ago, John80 said:

If Klavikoff is fired the PAC presidents would hire another incompetent buffoon that will make mistakes until the conference is dead. I browsed a Washington board and several of their fans realize the presidents are ultimately responsible for this.

GK & Pac presidents = Soviet sub captain

 

[Sbbruin 22144]

19 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

With you on this except I'd put UA on top.  Not because they're more valuable, but because they've been the most receptive besides CU and you are the furthest down the road with them.

Most importantly, if they jump in the next week or two, the fear factor on all the other campuses jumps up exponentially, and sets up the endgame to reel in the PNW schools.

//

 

Side note-  I'd also offer to bring in all of them besides WSU and OSU.  Stanford would probably pass, but Cal will be desperate.  UW and UO will want CA recruiting, so you could say you'll add SDSU and make it a B20 with Cal and SDSU to entice the PNW schools.  That would give you enough PT inventory to run B20 after dark on Fri and Sat after the primetime games all year long.

A 20 team conference without a single true powerhouse seems, well, overblown.

[Deej 77845]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Deej

[USC Traveler 488]

9 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

A 20 team conference without a single true powerhouse seems, well, overblown.

If you're the B12, you do what you need to do to kill the PAC once and for all.

And given how spread out the conference would be, 20 teams divided into four divisions gives you much easier travel for Olympic sports.

[DanTheHorn 5088]

Oh no is this going to become the official video of realignment.

 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

3 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

If you're the B12, you do what you need to do to kill the PAC once and for all.

And given how spread out the conference would be, 20 teams divided into four divisions gives you much easier travel for Olympic sports.

Its already on life support, three more kills it with fire.  The rest is over kill.    Not saying they would, but if you got Oregon, Washington, and Arizona to 16, you fucking stop.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Hurtlocker

[Deej 77845]

Just now, DanTheHorn said:

Oh no is this going to become the official video of realignment.

 

Wouldn't home be the Big 8?

[mdmost 44064]

We need to get some people to go back in the wayback machine to see all the CU fans getting excited that they were leaving the "awful Big 12" in 2011 and post those tweets and message board posts. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by mdmost

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

Bungled opportunities to raid Big 12, passive leadership has Pac-12 on brink with Colorado departing in 2024

"Colorado's exit now makes it OK to question out loud the process the Pac-12 has taken to this point. Upon losing USC and UCLA, Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff either could not or would not get a media rights deal done in an early negotiating window last summer.  That should have been the first indicator of the league's diminishing value. There continue to be rumors the Pac-12 asked for as much $500 million annually at one point. That's $50 million per team per year, which would have put the Pac-12 in the same orbit as the Big Ten despite two biggest West Coast brands walking out the door."

 

Not coincidental that Dodd is now finally admitting that the BIG doesn't want the PNW schools.  He and McMurphy (at the behest of ESPN/Fox/B12) have been pushing the "UW and UO to the BIG" bs for a year to make the 4C schools nervous.

But now that CU has jumped, we're in a "How many seats are there in the lifeboat ?" scenario, and the threat of UW and UO jumping to the B12 is now a bigger club to scare the other 4C into jumping first to lock up their spot than the threat of the PNW schools going BIG is.

[TKthunder2 5059]

10 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Its already on life support, three more kills it with fire.  The rest is over kill.    Not saying they would, but if you got Oregon, Washington, and Arizona to 16, you fucking stop.

Agree, unless you work out a deal to dump Cincy, WVU, and UCF to the ACC yeah you stop.

If you can dump those schools then it make sense to grab 3 of ASU, Utah, Cal, or Stanford.

[Trey3216 15452]

3 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

Not coincidental that Dodd is now finally admitting that the BIG doesn't want the PNW schools.  He and McMurphy (at the behest of ESPN/Fox/B12) have been pushing the "UW and UO to the BIG" bs for a year to make the 4C schools nervous.

But now that CU has jumped, we're in a "How many seats are there in the lifeboat ?" scenario, and the threat of UW and UO jumping to the B12 is now a bigger club to scare the other 4C into jumping first to lock up their spot than the threat of the PNW schools going BIG is.

They’ve been great lackeys, but the move all along has been Colorado/Arizona/Oregon/Washington.  
then try to add 2-4 basketball only schools (UCONN/Gonzaga and 2 more bball powers).   If you get to 16 with 4 adds for Bball, you get a conference round robin for bball and a convenient scheduling format for 16 fb teams.  
 

then Yormark gets his dream for a value add on the basketball end of the spectrum.   

[USC Traveler 488]

25 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Its already on life support, three more kills it with fire.  The rest is over kill.    Not saying they would, but if you got Oregon, Washington, and Arizona to 16, you fucking stop.

I agree if you can get them first.

But if you can't get the PNW schools after UA, it would be worth going bigger to end the PAC.

ASU and UU will be harder to poach than UA.  They want the academic association with Stanford/Cal, and a zombie PAC can survive with PNW, Bay Area, Utah, ASU and filler.  They'll convince themselves that easier playoff access will be worth lower money and visibility.

If you're the B12, do what you need to do to kill the PAC now, even if it means going to 20.  (Assuming ESPN and Fox would pay for it.)

[billfromlaketravis 11824]

Arizona, Oregon, UW, and take a bow Yormark. The others are just filler. 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

Just now, USC Traveler said:

I agree if you can get them first.

But if you can't get the PNW schools after UA, it would be worth going bigger to end the PAC.

ASU and UU will be harder to poach than UA.  They want the academic association with Stanford/Cal, and a zombie PAC can survive with PNW, Bay Area, Utah, ASU and filler.  They'll convince themselves that easier playoff access will be worth lower money and visibility.

If you're the B12, do what you need to do to kill the PAC now, even if it means going to 20.  (Assuming ESPN and Fox would pay for it.)

Well, the issue becomes after 16 you start getting diminishing returns because you start losing TV windows big enough to pay for your adds.   The B12 adding Pac teams, as pointed out by someone a few pages ago, allows ESPN/Fox to get some late games by adding a few teams, than having to pay for them all.

If you can't get Oregon or Washington, its not because they want to stay in the Pac, its because they want to wait for the B1G.  In that case, take Arizona, stick at 14, and wait 5 years.  They want something bigger than where they are or what you offer, so its just a terminal case for the Pac.   Once they leave there isn't a big risk the remainder can rise from the dead.   The B12 bounced back because there were fringe properties to sustain them.   

Outside maybe Stanford for ND, who is coming for Cal, ASU, Utah, OSU, or WSU?   Or, who can those schools add to rival you?   Boise?  SDSU?   Tulane?  Nerp.

Those 3 remaining seats in the B12 are now very valuable and the Buffs said why: Stable (even if its just stable because no one else but people at band camp will date you), media deal with ESPN/Fox, and exposure in three time zones, including Texas and Florida.

The hardest decision right now is for Oregon and Washington.    No way the B12 allows them to temp it and, unlike the Pac's agreement, the B12 has a $100m buyout.   So do you hold, hoping the B1G takes the schools on the West Coast that USC/UCLA don't want them to bring, or do you give up your dream to become the big kids on the new block?

Oh, and if you wait too long, ASU/Utah may pull a Colorado and steal 15/16 as they wait for you to cheat on them.