Realignment talk not going away

camel at sea · September 7, 2018

5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think Cal is much better than Baylor if you exclude the Briles era. I would probably put UCLA way lower and Oregon/UW much higher (since they've both made CFP). But otherwise I think we're basically saying the same thing in different ways. The main difference is that OU easily runs the table here and in a way that no Pac team has been able to do since the Pete Carroll era. Plenty of Pac teams have finished in the top 2 of their divisions since it expanded to twelve teams, perhaps even all twelve of them. We can't say the same about the XII when it had divisions. Not much has changed since then, either.

Overall, I'd be more excited about conference play in that one than in the XII.

Every single team in the Big 12 - except ISU - has made a serious national title run at least once since 2007. Since 2008, OU, Texas, OSU, KSU, TCU, and Baylor have all won the conference at least once.

The big difference between the two conferences lately is that OU is up and USC is down. That allows the PAC's 2nd tier to be more competitive nationally because the Trojans aren't serving as a ceiling.

Cal has two ten win seasons since 1992. They aren't *much better* than Baylor. Not at football, anyway.

notre dame joe · September 7, 2018

6 hours ago, chainsaw said:

To be honest, that probably also goes for all time except I'd say Texas and maybe KState are more accomplished by that metric. Nebraska certainly was, too. What I don't want is for Texas to become the next ND, having to point to the past consistently because of a downward turn in quality that hasn't been corrected.

It happened to all northern schools with depleting local talent pools except Ohio State. I doubt UT needs to worry unless the campus moves to Missouri.

Hank Chinaski · September 7, 2018

14 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

It happened to all northern schools with depleting local talent pools except Ohio State. I doubt UT needs to worry unless the campus moves to Missouri.

Counterpoint: Tom Herman remains head coach

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

4 hours ago, DCLonghorn said:

Me along with the rest of the 47% of the US population that lives in the Eastern time zone would be super psyched to watch that late game! I watch WAY less Astros baseball now that they've moved to the AL West.

The XII wouldn't go through all the logistical hurdles of adding the elite brands of the PAC in a merger, ala Big8/ SWC, just to place the "elite brands" in a late kickoff slot...

Those games for Texas/ USC/ Oklahoma/ UCLA would most likely air in slots between 2:30pm to 8:00pm, to maximize viewership on the east coast...

kopp0e · September 7, 2018

4 hours ago, Chili dog said:

If 2-8 of our teams joined the PAC we’d just divide the divisions into east and west. We’d only play teams from the Pacific time zone twice a year. None if we had a 18 to 20-team super conference. And with the two cross-divisional games, one of those would be at home. Wouldn’t be as bad as it sounds for scheduling.

Thats not to say the PAC would be my first choice. It’s workable, though.

There's also the chance for a north/ south split, where UT & OU play USC & UCLA in division each year, home & away...
This gives schools like Washington/ Stanford/ Colorado/ Iowa State, a legit shot at winning the north division each year...

gmr548 · September 7, 2018

FWIW, B12 is 12-4 against Pac in bowls from 2011 season (realignment) on. Yes, bowls are a different animal but a .750 batting average is pretty stark. At the very least it indicates a coaching/prep advantage for B12. Don't have time to look at regular season at the moment. Though

Texas has been ass against the PAC in recent years - swept by Cal, about to get swept by SC, punked at home by UCLA (favor was returned tbf). Beat Oregon St in the Alamo Bowl but then Oregon sent Mack off with a beating.

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joeycovers · September 7, 2018

PAC 12 is (130-143-7) against Big 12

  Average score: PAC 12  22.1  -  Big 12  24.5

  In bowl games: PAC 12 is (19-27) against Big 12
                 Average score: PAC 12  28.6  -  Big 12  30.6

  NOTE: PAC 12 includes these former conferences: PAC 10 / PAC 8 / AAWU / Pacific Coast 
        Big 12 includes these former conferences: Big 8 / Big 7 / Big 6 / MVIAA 

PAC 12 TEAMS VS. BIG 12
                        W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  Arizona               5     5     0    50.0    19.0    23.0
  Arizona St           12    13     0    48.0    26.4    28.9
  California           17    14     1    54.7    25.8    25.0
  Colorado              0     1     0     0.0     8.0    38.0
  Idaho                 0     1     0     0.0    10.0    14.0
  Oregon St             9    18     0    33.3    15.7    24.3
  Oregon               13    22     1    37.5    18.6    27.3
  Stanford              8    10     0    44.4    24.3    26.8
  UCLA                 25    18     1    58.0    25.7    23.9
  USC                  16     7     2    68.0    24.8    16.9
  Utah                  1     0     0   100.0    30.0    14.0
  Washington St         8    18     0    30.8    15.3    25.9
  Washington           16    16     2    50.0    23.2    23.3

PAC 12 VS. BIG 12 TEAMS
                        W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  Baylor                3     4     0    42.9    31.9    36.7
  Colorado             30    27     1    52.6    22.1    19.1
  Iowa St               3     0     0   100.0    27.7    19.0
  Kansas               14    17     1    45.3    18.5    21.3
  Kansas St            11     8     0    57.9    27.5    16.8
  Missouri             13     6     2    66.7    22.1    18.8
  Nebraska             19    34     2    36.4    17.0    28.1
  Oklahoma             15    24     1    38.8    17.6    26.2
  Oklahoma St           6    10     0    37.5    22.9    32.3
  TCU                   0     2     0     0.0    39.0    43.0
  Texas A&M             2     0     0   100.0    37.0    16.5
  Texas Tech            2     3     0    40.0    39.6    40.4
  Texas                11     7     0    61.1    33.3    31.4
  West Virginia         1     1     0    50.0    36.0    28.5

BY DECADE
             W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  2010's    15    19     0    44.1    31.4    34.3
  2000's    23    23     0    50.0    27.7    27.7
  1990's    19    25     0    43.2    22.9    29.0
  1980's    26    25     1    51.0    20.3    23.3
  1970's    14    27     2    34.9    18.3    25.7
  1960's    12     9     2    56.5    16.3    15.3
  1950's    12     9     1    56.8    17.4    12.1
  1940's     6     0     0   100.0    27.2    10.0
  1930's     1     4     0    20.0     9.4    21.6
  1920's     2     1     1    62.5     9.0     8.3
  1910's     0     1     0     0.0     7.0    17.0

BY YEAR
             W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
    2017     2     3     0    40.0    31.2    32.8
    2016     3     1     0    75.0    38.0    37.3
    2015     1     2     0    33.3    42.7    44.7
    2014     2     1     0    66.7    27.3    27.3
    2013     1     1     0    50.0    26.5    22.0
    2012     2     2     0    50.0    36.8    33.8
    2011     1     5     0    16.7    29.2    40.8
    2010     3     4     0    42.9    25.0    30.6
    2009     1     2     0    33.3    16.7    24.3
    2008     1     3     0    25.0    21.5    42.5
    2007     2     1     0    66.7    38.7    32.3
    2006     6     1     0    85.7    29.1    20.9
    2005     1     2     0    33.3    31.0    27.3
    2004     1     4     0    20.0    25.0    29.2
    2003     2     3     0    40.0    28.2    32.6
    2002     3     5     0    37.5    29.5    27.9
    2001     2     2     0    50.0    32.0    22.5
    2000     4     0     0   100.0    24.0    20.5
    1999     2     3     0    40.0    19.8    35.0
    1998     4     3     0    57.1    23.6    30.0
    1997     3     1     0    75.0    37.3    22.3
    1996     1     3     0    25.0    17.3    28.0
    1995     0     4     0     0.0    21.3    50.3
    1994     0     1     0     0.0    21.0    49.0
    1993     2     1     0    66.7    22.0    20.3
    1992     3     2     0    60.0    24.0    28.2
    1991     4     1     0    80.0    31.8    13.2
    1990     0     6     0     0.0    12.2    29.0
    1989     3     2     0    60.0    18.2    17.2
    1988     3     3     0    50.0    27.2    26.5
    1987     1     4     0    20.0    21.0    28.2
    1986     2     2     0    50.0    18.3    34.3
    1985     2     4     0    33.3    17.7    29.7
    1984     3     3     0    50.0    16.8    26.5
    1983     0     4     0     0.0    14.5    33.3
    1982     5     1     0    83.3    23.2    10.5
    1981     4     2     0    66.7    17.0    17.5
    1980     3     0     1    87.5    29.5    13.3
    1979     1     1     0    50.0    24.5    20.5
    1978     2     4     0    33.3    24.7    20.8
    1977     4     2     0    66.7    20.7    14.8
    1976     0     5     0     0.0    16.2    31.6
    1975     2     3     0    40.0    17.8    30.2
    1974     1     2     0    33.3    15.0    34.3
    1973     0     2     1    16.7     9.3    25.3
    1972     2     4     0    33.3    16.7    30.0
    1971     1     3     0    25.0    11.5    25.3
    1970     1     1     1    50.0    25.0    27.7
    1969     1     0     0   100.0    31.0    21.0
    1968     1     1     0    50.0     8.5    14.0
    1967     1     3     0    25.0    10.3    18.8
    1966     1     1     0    50.0    12.0    16.0
    1965     1     0     1    75.0    15.5     7.0
    1964     4     0     0   100.0    24.0     8.8
    1963     2     1     0    66.7    13.7     8.3
    1962     1     2     0    33.3    24.0    18.0
    1961     0     1     1    25.0    10.5    33.5
    1960     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1959     1     0     0   100.0    21.0    12.0
    1958     1     2     0    33.3     7.3     6.7
    1957     2     0     1    83.3    24.7     8.0
    1956     3     0     0   100.0    22.3     4.3
    1955     0     2     0     0.0     3.0    13.0
    1954     1     2     0    33.3    17.3    20.3
    1953     2     1     0    66.7    19.7    13.3
    1952     1     1     0    50.0    20.5    21.0
    1951     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1950     1     1     0    50.0    20.0    14.0
    1949     1     0     0   100.0    42.0    14.0
    1948     2     0     0   100.0    27.5    13.5
    1947     1     0     0   100.0    27.0     6.0
    1946     1     0     0   100.0    18.0     0.0
    1945     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1944     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1943     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1942     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1941     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1940     1     0     0   100.0    21.0    13.0
    1939     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1938     0     1     0     0.0     0.0    28.0
    1937     1     0     0   100.0    13.0     0.0
    1936     0     1     0     0.0    14.0    32.0
    1935     0     1     0     0.0    20.0    26.0
    1934     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1933     0     1     0     0.0     0.0    22.0
    1932     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1931     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1930     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1929     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1928     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1927     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1926     1     0     0   100.0    10.0     6.0
    1925     0     0     1    50.0     6.0     6.0
    1924     1     1     0    50.0    10.0    10.5
    1923     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1922     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1921     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1920     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1919     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1918     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1917     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1916     0     1     0     0.0     7.0    17.0

GAMES
2017/12/28  Stanford        37  -  TCU             39     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2017/12/26  Utah            30  -  West Virginia   14     !! Heart of Dallas Bowl !!           
2017/12/26  UCLA            17  -  Kansas St       35     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2017/09/16  USC             27  -  Texas           24  OT                                      
2017/09/16  Arizona St      45  -  Texas Tech      52                                          
2016/12/29  Colorado         8  -  Oklahoma St     38     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2016/09/17  California      50  -  Texas           43                                          
2016/09/10  Arizona St      68  -  Texas Tech      55                                          
2016/09/02  Stanford        26  -  Kansas St       13                                          
2016/01/02  Arizona St      42  -  West Virginia   43     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2016/01/02  Oregon          41  -  TCU             47  OT !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2015/09/19  California      45  -  Texas           44                                          
2015/01/02  Washington      22  -  Oklahoma St     30     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2015/01/02  UCLA            40  -  Kansas St       35     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2014/09/13  UCLA            20  -  Texas           17                                          
2013/12/30  Oregon          30  -  Texas            7     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2013/12/30  Arizona St      23  -  Texas Tech      37     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2013/01/03  Oregon          35  -  Kansas St       17     !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2012/12/29  Oregon St       27  -  Texas           31     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2012/12/27  UCLA            26  -  Baylor          49     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2012/09/08  Arizona         59  -  Oklahoma St     38                                          
2012/01/02  Stanford        38  -  Oklahoma St     41  OT !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2011/12/29  Washington      56  -  Baylor          67     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2011/12/28  California      10  -  Texas           21     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2011/09/17  UCLA            20  -  Texas           49                                          
2011/09/09  Arizona St      37  -  Missouri        30  OT                                      
2011/09/08  Arizona         14  -  Oklahoma St     37                                          
2010/12/30  Washington      19  -  Nebraska         7     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2010/12/29  Arizona         10  -  Oklahoma St     36     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2010/09/25  UCLA            34  -  Texas           12                                          
2010/09/18  Washington      21  -  Nebraska        56                                          
2010/09/11  California      52  -  Colorado         7                                          
2010/09/04  Washington St   17  -  Oklahoma St     65                                          
2010/09/04  UCLA            22  -  Kansas St       31                                          
2009/12/31  Stanford        27  -  Oklahoma        31     !! Sun Bowl !!                       
2009/12/30  Arizona          0  -  Nebraska        33     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2009/09/19  UCLA            23  -  Kansas St        9                                          
2008/12/30  Oregon          42  -  Oklahoma St     31     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2008/09/13  Washington      14  -  Oklahoma        55                                          
2008/09/12  Washington St   17  -  Baylor          45                                          
2008/08/30  Washington St   13  -  Oklahoma St     39                                          
2007/12/27  Arizona St      34  -  Texas           52     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2007/09/15  USC             49  -  Nebraska        31                                          
2007/09/08  Arizona St      33  -  Colorado        14                                          
2006/12/29  Oregon St       39  -  Missouri        38     !! Sun Bowl !!                       
2006/12/28  California      45  -  Texas A&M       10     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2006/09/16  Oregon          34  -  Oklahoma        33                                          
2006/09/16  USC             28  -  Nebraska        10                                          
2006/09/16  Washington St   17  -  Baylor          15                                          
2006/09/16  Arizona St      21  -  Colorado         3                                          
2006/09/09  Washington      20  -  Oklahoma        37                                          
2006/01/04  USC             38  -  Texas           41     !! Rose Bowl !!                      
2005/12/29  Oregon          14  -  Oklahoma        17     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2005/09/17  UCLA            41  -  Oklahoma        24                                          
2005/01/04  USC             55  -  Oklahoma        19     !! Orange Bowl !!                    
2004/12/30  California      31  -  Texas Tech      45     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2004/09/18  Oregon           7  -  Oklahoma        31                                          
2004/09/11  Washington St   12  -  Colorado        20                                          
2004/09/04  UCLA            20  -  Oklahoma St     31                                          
2003/12/30  Washington St   28  -  Texas           20     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2003/09/20  UCLA            24  -  Oklahoma        59                                          
2003/09/13  Washington St   47  -  Colorado        26                                          
2003/09/06  UCLA            14  -  Colorado        16                                          
2003/08/23  California      28  -  Kansas St       42                                          
2003/01/01  Washington St   14  -  Oklahoma        34     !! Rose Bowl !!                      
2002/12/27  Arizona St      27  -  Kansas St       34     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2002/09/21  USC             20  -  Kansas St       27                                          
2002/09/21  UCLA            17  -  Colorado        31                                          
2002/09/14  USC             40  -  Colorado         3                                          
2002/09/14  UCLA            38  -  Oklahoma St     24                                          
2002/08/31  California      70  -  Baylor          22                                          
2002/08/24  Arizona St      10  -  Nebraska        48                                          
2002/01/01  Oregon          38  -  Colorado        16     !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2001/12/28  Washington      43  -  Texas           47     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2001/09/08  UCLA            41  -  Kansas          17                                          
2001/09/08  USC              6  -  Kansas St       10                                          
2000/12/29  Oregon          35  -  Texas           30     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2000/09/16  Washington      17  -  Colorado        14                                          
2000/09/16  Stanford        27  -  Texas           24                                          
2000/09/09  USC             17  -  Colorado        14                                          
1999/12/29  Washington      20  -  Kansas St       24     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1999/09/25  Washington      31  -  Colorado        24                                          
1999/09/11  California       0  -  Nebraska        45                                          
1999/09/06  Arizona St      31  -  Texas Tech      13                                          
1999/09/04  Stanford        17  -  Texas           69                                          
1998/12/30  Arizona         23  -  Nebraska        20     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1998/12/25  Oregon          43  -  Colorado        51     !! Aloha Bowl !!                     
1998/09/26  Washington       7  -  Nebraska        55                                          
1998/09/19  California      13  -  Oklahoma        12                                          
1998/09/12  UCLA            49  -  Texas           31                                          
1998/09/12  California       3  -  Nebraska        24                                          
1998/09/12  Oregon St       27  -  Baylor          17                                          
1998/01/01  UCLA            29  -  Texas A&M       23     !! Cotton Bowl !!                    
1997/09/20  California      40  -  Oklahoma        36                                          
1997/09/20  Washington      14  -  Nebraska        27                                          
1997/09/13  UCLA            66  -  Texas            3                                          
1996/12/30  Washington      21  -  Colorado        33     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1996/09/21  Oregon St       10  -  Baylor          42                                          
1996/09/21  Arizona St      19  -  Nebraska         0                                          
1996/08/31  Washington St   19  -  Colorado        37

Hurtlocker · September 8, 2018

11 hours ago, kopp0e said:

The best options for the XII in expansion all sit either in the state of Texas, (Rice or Houston) or Louisiana (Tulane), all other options are to the west...

So would you rather play schools like New Mexico & UNLV in a south division, or USC & Arizona State, is the question, if expanding is needed in the future...

Expanding within Texas is absolutely the worst decision the Big 12 could do, outside not kicking out Baylor.

Going west is about as bad. College football is dictated by the east coast, not the west.

Dean Gullberry · September 8, 2018

Still undefeated...

                        W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  Iowa St               3     0     0   100.0    27.7    19.0

DeadArmadillo · September 8, 2018

Still undefeated...

W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPGIowa St               3     0     0   100.0    27.7    19.0

Indeed

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

2 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Expanding within Texas is absolutely the worst decision the Big 12 could do, outside not kicking out Baylor.

Going west is about as bad. College football is dictated by the east coast, not the west.

Well, it depends on what exactly you mean by football is "dictated" by the east, as in the projected 10 state footprint of a PAC-XII merger, a roster of:
Cyclones/Jayhawks/Sooners/Longhorns/Red Raiders/Horned Frogs/Buffaloes/Utes/Wildcats/Sun Devils/Trojans/Bruins/Bears/Cardinal/Ducks/Huskies

Has a total population within the footprint of 103.5 million residents, out of 325.7 million nationally... About 1/3rd of the nation, is not to be dismissed...

And as far as attendance in potential 16 team conferences of the ACC/ B1G/ SEC and whichever absorbs the other of the XII & PAC, figures total at:

16 member B1G West - 58,470 - Oklahoma/ Kansas/ Nebraska/ Iowa/ Minnesota/ Wisconsin/ Northwestern & Illinois
16 member PAC South - 62,647 - Oklahoma/ Texas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Arizona/ Arizona State/ USC & UCLA
16 member SEC West - 76,006 - Texas/ Texas A&M/ Oklahoma/ Missouri/ Arkansas/ LSU/ Ole Miss & Mississippi State

I didn't add Texas to the B1G, as in the case of UT, it would either be the 17th member adding Kansas/ Oklahoma & Texas...
Or, the duo of just Oklahoma & Texas head north to the B1G, being isolated as outpost, without any regional rivals added...

On Rice, I can see concern, although I will note that attendance #'s for the Owls as a G5 schools sits near figures for Vanderbilt of the SEC at 19,000 to 31,000...

Keep in mind, that visiting members of the SEC as Tennessee/ Alabama/ Florida & Georgia "prop up" those figures, with tickets bought by the visiting teams...

utee94 · September 8, 2018

Oh no. Now you've done it. You made kopp bust out his maps.

mdleast · September 8, 2018

24 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Oh no. Now you've done it. You made kopp bust out his maps.

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, uh, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future. For our children.

Hurtlocker · September 8, 2018

46 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Well, it depends on what exactly you mean by football is "dictated" by the east, as in the projected 10 state footprint of a PAC-XII merger, a roster of:
Cyclones/Jayhawks/Sooners/Longhorns/Red Raiders/Horned Frogs/Buffaloes/Utes/Wildcats/Sun Devils/Trojans/Bruins/Bears/Cardinal/Ducks/Huskies

Has a total population within the footprint of 103.5 million residents, out of 325.7 million nationally... About 1/3rd of the nation, is not to be dismissed...

And as far as attendance in potential 16 team conferences of the ACC/ B1G/ SEC and whichever absorbs the other of the XII & PAC, figures total at:

16 member B1G West - 58,470 - Oklahoma/ Kansas/ Nebraska/ Iowa/ Minnesota/ Wisconsin/ Northwestern & Illinois
16 member PAC South - 62,647 - Oklahoma/ Texas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Arizona/ Arizona State/ USC & UCLA
16 member SEC West - 76,006 - Texas/ Texas A&M/ Oklahoma/ Missouri/ Arkansas/ LSU/ Ole Miss & Mississippi State

I didn't add Texas to the B1G, as in the case of UT, it would either be the 17th member adding Kansas/ Oklahoma & Texas...
Or, the duo of just Oklahoma & Texas head north to the B1G, being isolated as outpost, without any regional rivals added...

On Rice, I can see concern, although I will note that attendance #'s for the Owls as a G5 schools sits near figures for Vanderbilt of the SEC at 19,000 to 31,000...

Keep in mind, that visiting members of the SEC as Tennessee/ Alabama/ Florida & Georgia "prop up" those figures, with tickets bought by the visiting teams...

As in it is dictated by the East Coast. There are 100 million more people east of the Big 12 than west. The east and central time zones dominate the news cycle. This doesn't even take into consideration that the place where people care the most about college football is on a line directly east from Dallas until you hit the Atlantic. Draw a line west and you may find six people and three of them are in Lubbock.

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

17 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

As in it is dictated by the East Coast. There are 100 million more people east of the Big 12 than west. The east and central time zones dominate the news cycle. This doesn't even take into consideration that the place where people care the most about college football is on a line directly east from Dallas until you hit the Atlantic. Draw a line west and you may find six people and three of them are in Lubbock.

It still depends, if you are talking from Dallas to Nashville, to Atlanta, south to Orlando area..? Yes
But if you are referring to east of Kansas City to Chicago, over to ~~New York~~, New Jersey/ Baltimore area..? Not so much

As in the case for the B1G, all of it's largest stadiums are in the east division, a place OU or UT would see once per decade...
But overall your narrative is fairly correct, except the B1G west is worse than the XII in attendance...
And the B1G east becomes average when isolating away the 100,000+ stadiums of Penn State/ Michigan State & Ohio State...

The SEC would hold up to a PAC south, but not the B1G, not at all, and what time the news comes on in D.C. makes no difference to a fan in Dallas...

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

Just to compare, the SEC & PAC have better access to recruits in the state of Texas, than the B1G on average...
Which can be taken as players rather stay closer to home, and play regionally, than heading north & east to the Great Lakes conference...

Likewise, Oklahoma has a starkly different recruiting footprint in the SEC & PAC, vs the B1G, in a 16 member alignment:

Likewise, the Lone Star State has a starkly different recruiting footprint pattern in the SEC & PAC, vs the B1G, in a 16 member alignment:

Top 50 rated Texas recruits 2019:
ACC - *Notre Dame 2
B1G - Illinois 1/ Ohio State 1
SEC - Ole Miss 1/ Vanderbilt 1/ LSU 2/ A&M 13
PAC - Arizona 1/ Stanford 1

XII - Baylor 1/ Texas Tech 1/ TCU 3/ Texas 4/ Oklahoma 7

Quote

Top 50 rated Texas recruits 2019:
ACC - *Notre Dame 2
B1G - Illinois 1/ Ohio State 1
SEC - Ole Miss 1/ Vanderbilt 1/ LSU 2/ A&M 13
PAC - Arizona 1/ Stanford 1

XII - Baylor 1/ Texas Tech 1/ TCU 3/ Texas 4/ Oklahoma 7

And as far as 2018 commits that are at the University of Texas, the same amount of players on roster are from the SEC as is from the PAC, at two each, California (x2)/ Utah for out west, vs Florida/ Louisiana/ Missouri out east of the XII region...
The Texas Longhorns don't find a great benefit from traveling to the far reaches of the northeaast, thus isolating fans, as most likely only 2 members are afforded the chnce to join a division with Nebraska/ Iowa/ Minnesota/ Wisconsin/ Northwestern & Illinois...

Not exactly "must see television", of potential B1G contest, versus the options of being either aligned in the SEC against A&M/ LSU & Arkansas, or USC/ UCLA & Texas Tech in the PAC, as annual divisional contest, the B1G can be played out of conference as is now...

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

8 hours ago, joeycovers said:


PAC 12 is (130-143-7) against Big 12

  Average score: PAC 12  22.1  -  Big 12  24.5

  In bowl games: PAC 12 is (19-27) against Big 12
                 Average score: PAC 12  28.6  -  Big 12  30.6

  NOTE: PAC 12 includes these former conferences: PAC 10 / PAC 8 / AAWU / Pacific Coast 
        Big 12 includes these former conferences: Big 8 / Big 7 / Big 6 / MVIAA 

PAC 12 TEAMS VS. BIG 12
                        W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  Arizona               5     5     0    50.0    19.0    23.0
  Arizona St           12    13     0    48.0    26.4    28.9
  California           17    14     1    54.7    25.8    25.0
  Colorado              0     1     0     0.0     8.0    38.0
  Idaho                 0     1     0     0.0    10.0    14.0
  Oregon St             9    18     0    33.3    15.7    24.3
  Oregon               13    22     1    37.5    18.6    27.3
  Stanford              8    10     0    44.4    24.3    26.8
  UCLA                 25    18     1    58.0    25.7    23.9
  USC                  16     7     2    68.0    24.8    16.9
  Utah                  1     0     0   100.0    30.0    14.0
  Washington St         8    18     0    30.8    15.3    25.9
  Washington           16    16     2    50.0    23.2    23.3

PAC 12 VS. BIG 12 TEAMS
                        W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  Baylor                3     4     0    42.9    31.9    36.7
  Colorado             30    27     1    52.6    22.1    19.1
  Iowa St               3     0     0   100.0    27.7    19.0
  Kansas               14    17     1    45.3    18.5    21.3
  Kansas St            11     8     0    57.9    27.5    16.8
  Missouri             13     6     2    66.7    22.1    18.8
  Nebraska             19    34     2    36.4    17.0    28.1
  Oklahoma             15    24     1    38.8    17.6    26.2
  Oklahoma St           6    10     0    37.5    22.9    32.3
  TCU                   0     2     0     0.0    39.0    43.0
  Texas A&M             2     0     0   100.0    37.0    16.5
  Texas Tech            2     3     0    40.0    39.6    40.4
  Texas                11     7     0    61.1    33.3    31.4
  West Virginia         1     1     0    50.0    36.0    28.5

BY DECADE
             W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
  2010's    15    19     0    44.1    31.4    34.3
  2000's    23    23     0    50.0    27.7    27.7
  1990's    19    25     0    43.2    22.9    29.0
  1980's    26    25     1    51.0    20.3    23.3
  1970's    14    27     2    34.9    18.3    25.7
  1960's    12     9     2    56.5    16.3    15.3
  1950's    12     9     1    56.8    17.4    12.1
  1940's     6     0     0   100.0    27.2    10.0
  1930's     1     4     0    20.0     9.4    21.6
  1920's     2     1     1    62.5     9.0     8.3
  1910's     0     1     0     0.0     7.0    17.0

BY YEAR
             W     L     T   Win %    PFPG    PAPG
    2017     2     3     0    40.0    31.2    32.8
    2016     3     1     0    75.0    38.0    37.3
    2015     1     2     0    33.3    42.7    44.7
    2014     2     1     0    66.7    27.3    27.3
    2013     1     1     0    50.0    26.5    22.0
    2012     2     2     0    50.0    36.8    33.8
    2011     1     5     0    16.7    29.2    40.8
    2010     3     4     0    42.9    25.0    30.6
    2009     1     2     0    33.3    16.7    24.3
    2008     1     3     0    25.0    21.5    42.5
    2007     2     1     0    66.7    38.7    32.3
    2006     6     1     0    85.7    29.1    20.9
    2005     1     2     0    33.3    31.0    27.3
    2004     1     4     0    20.0    25.0    29.2
    2003     2     3     0    40.0    28.2    32.6
    2002     3     5     0    37.5    29.5    27.9
    2001     2     2     0    50.0    32.0    22.5
    2000     4     0     0   100.0    24.0    20.5
    1999     2     3     0    40.0    19.8    35.0
    1998     4     3     0    57.1    23.6    30.0
    1997     3     1     0    75.0    37.3    22.3
    1996     1     3     0    25.0    17.3    28.0
    1995     0     4     0     0.0    21.3    50.3
    1994     0     1     0     0.0    21.0    49.0
    1993     2     1     0    66.7    22.0    20.3
    1992     3     2     0    60.0    24.0    28.2
    1991     4     1     0    80.0    31.8    13.2
    1990     0     6     0     0.0    12.2    29.0
    1989     3     2     0    60.0    18.2    17.2
    1988     3     3     0    50.0    27.2    26.5
    1987     1     4     0    20.0    21.0    28.2
    1986     2     2     0    50.0    18.3    34.3
    1985     2     4     0    33.3    17.7    29.7
    1984     3     3     0    50.0    16.8    26.5
    1983     0     4     0     0.0    14.5    33.3
    1982     5     1     0    83.3    23.2    10.5
    1981     4     2     0    66.7    17.0    17.5
    1980     3     0     1    87.5    29.5    13.3
    1979     1     1     0    50.0    24.5    20.5
    1978     2     4     0    33.3    24.7    20.8
    1977     4     2     0    66.7    20.7    14.8
    1976     0     5     0     0.0    16.2    31.6
    1975     2     3     0    40.0    17.8    30.2
    1974     1     2     0    33.3    15.0    34.3
    1973     0     2     1    16.7     9.3    25.3
    1972     2     4     0    33.3    16.7    30.0
    1971     1     3     0    25.0    11.5    25.3
    1970     1     1     1    50.0    25.0    27.7
    1969     1     0     0   100.0    31.0    21.0
    1968     1     1     0    50.0     8.5    14.0
    1967     1     3     0    25.0    10.3    18.8
    1966     1     1     0    50.0    12.0    16.0
    1965     1     0     1    75.0    15.5     7.0
    1964     4     0     0   100.0    24.0     8.8
    1963     2     1     0    66.7    13.7     8.3
    1962     1     2     0    33.3    24.0    18.0
    1961     0     1     1    25.0    10.5    33.5
    1960     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1959     1     0     0   100.0    21.0    12.0
    1958     1     2     0    33.3     7.3     6.7
    1957     2     0     1    83.3    24.7     8.0
    1956     3     0     0   100.0    22.3     4.3
    1955     0     2     0     0.0     3.0    13.0
    1954     1     2     0    33.3    17.3    20.3
    1953     2     1     0    66.7    19.7    13.3
    1952     1     1     0    50.0    20.5    21.0
    1951     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1950     1     1     0    50.0    20.0    14.0
    1949     1     0     0   100.0    42.0    14.0
    1948     2     0     0   100.0    27.5    13.5
    1947     1     0     0   100.0    27.0     6.0
    1946     1     0     0   100.0    18.0     0.0
    1945     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1944     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1943     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1942     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1941     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1940     1     0     0   100.0    21.0    13.0
    1939     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1938     0     1     0     0.0     0.0    28.0
    1937     1     0     0   100.0    13.0     0.0
    1936     0     1     0     0.0    14.0    32.0
    1935     0     1     0     0.0    20.0    26.0
    1934     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1933     0     1     0     0.0     0.0    22.0
    1932     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1931     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1930     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1929     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1928     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1927     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1926     1     0     0   100.0    10.0     6.0
    1925     0     0     1    50.0     6.0     6.0
    1924     1     1     0    50.0    10.0    10.5
    1923     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1922     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1921     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1920     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1919     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1918     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1917     0     0     0     0.0     0.0     0.0
    1916     0     1     0     0.0     7.0    17.0

GAMES
2017/12/28  Stanford        37  -  TCU             39     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2017/12/26  Utah            30  -  West Virginia   14     !! Heart of Dallas Bowl !!           
2017/12/26  UCLA            17  -  Kansas St       35     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2017/09/16  USC             27  -  Texas           24  OT                                      
2017/09/16  Arizona St      45  -  Texas Tech      52                                          
2016/12/29  Colorado         8  -  Oklahoma St     38     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2016/09/17  California      50  -  Texas           43                                          
2016/09/10  Arizona St      68  -  Texas Tech      55                                          
2016/09/02  Stanford        26  -  Kansas St       13                                          
2016/01/02  Arizona St      42  -  West Virginia   43     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2016/01/02  Oregon          41  -  TCU             47  OT !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2015/09/19  California      45  -  Texas           44                                          
2015/01/02  Washington      22  -  Oklahoma St     30     !! Cactus Bowl !!                    
2015/01/02  UCLA            40  -  Kansas St       35     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2014/09/13  UCLA            20  -  Texas           17                                          
2013/12/30  Oregon          30  -  Texas            7     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2013/12/30  Arizona St      23  -  Texas Tech      37     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2013/01/03  Oregon          35  -  Kansas St       17     !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2012/12/29  Oregon St       27  -  Texas           31     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2012/12/27  UCLA            26  -  Baylor          49     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2012/09/08  Arizona         59  -  Oklahoma St     38                                          
2012/01/02  Stanford        38  -  Oklahoma St     41  OT !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2011/12/29  Washington      56  -  Baylor          67     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2011/12/28  California      10  -  Texas           21     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2011/09/17  UCLA            20  -  Texas           49                                          
2011/09/09  Arizona St      37  -  Missouri        30  OT                                      
2011/09/08  Arizona         14  -  Oklahoma St     37                                          
2010/12/30  Washington      19  -  Nebraska         7     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2010/12/29  Arizona         10  -  Oklahoma St     36     !! Alamo Bowl !!                     
2010/09/25  UCLA            34  -  Texas           12                                          
2010/09/18  Washington      21  -  Nebraska        56                                          
2010/09/11  California      52  -  Colorado         7                                          
2010/09/04  Washington St   17  -  Oklahoma St     65                                          
2010/09/04  UCLA            22  -  Kansas St       31                                          
2009/12/31  Stanford        27  -  Oklahoma        31     !! Sun Bowl !!                       
2009/12/30  Arizona          0  -  Nebraska        33     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2009/09/19  UCLA            23  -  Kansas St        9                                          
2008/12/30  Oregon          42  -  Oklahoma St     31     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2008/09/13  Washington      14  -  Oklahoma        55                                          
2008/09/12  Washington St   17  -  Baylor          45                                          
2008/08/30  Washington St   13  -  Oklahoma St     39                                          
2007/12/27  Arizona St      34  -  Texas           52     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2007/09/15  USC             49  -  Nebraska        31                                          
2007/09/08  Arizona St      33  -  Colorado        14                                          
2006/12/29  Oregon St       39  -  Missouri        38     !! Sun Bowl !!                       
2006/12/28  California      45  -  Texas A&M       10     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2006/09/16  Oregon          34  -  Oklahoma        33                                          
2006/09/16  USC             28  -  Nebraska        10                                          
2006/09/16  Washington St   17  -  Baylor          15                                          
2006/09/16  Arizona St      21  -  Colorado         3                                          
2006/09/09  Washington      20  -  Oklahoma        37                                          
2006/01/04  USC             38  -  Texas           41     !! Rose Bowl !!                      
2005/12/29  Oregon          14  -  Oklahoma        17     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2005/09/17  UCLA            41  -  Oklahoma        24                                          
2005/01/04  USC             55  -  Oklahoma        19     !! Orange Bowl !!                    
2004/12/30  California      31  -  Texas Tech      45     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2004/09/18  Oregon           7  -  Oklahoma        31                                          
2004/09/11  Washington St   12  -  Colorado        20                                          
2004/09/04  UCLA            20  -  Oklahoma St     31                                          
2003/12/30  Washington St   28  -  Texas           20     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2003/09/20  UCLA            24  -  Oklahoma        59                                          
2003/09/13  Washington St   47  -  Colorado        26                                          
2003/09/06  UCLA            14  -  Colorado        16                                          
2003/08/23  California      28  -  Kansas St       42                                          
2003/01/01  Washington St   14  -  Oklahoma        34     !! Rose Bowl !!                      
2002/12/27  Arizona St      27  -  Kansas St       34     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2002/09/21  USC             20  -  Kansas St       27                                          
2002/09/21  UCLA            17  -  Colorado        31                                          
2002/09/14  USC             40  -  Colorado         3                                          
2002/09/14  UCLA            38  -  Oklahoma St     24                                          
2002/08/31  California      70  -  Baylor          22                                          
2002/08/24  Arizona St      10  -  Nebraska        48                                          
2002/01/01  Oregon          38  -  Colorado        16     !! Fiesta Bowl !!                    
2001/12/28  Washington      43  -  Texas           47     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2001/09/08  UCLA            41  -  Kansas          17                                          
2001/09/08  USC              6  -  Kansas St       10                                          
2000/12/29  Oregon          35  -  Texas           30     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
2000/09/16  Washington      17  -  Colorado        14                                          
2000/09/16  Stanford        27  -  Texas           24                                          
2000/09/09  USC             17  -  Colorado        14                                          
1999/12/29  Washington      20  -  Kansas St       24     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1999/09/25  Washington      31  -  Colorado        24                                          
1999/09/11  California       0  -  Nebraska        45                                          
1999/09/06  Arizona St      31  -  Texas Tech      13                                          
1999/09/04  Stanford        17  -  Texas           69                                          
1998/12/30  Arizona         23  -  Nebraska        20     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1998/12/25  Oregon          43  -  Colorado        51     !! Aloha Bowl !!                     
1998/09/26  Washington       7  -  Nebraska        55                                          
1998/09/19  California      13  -  Oklahoma        12                                          
1998/09/12  UCLA            49  -  Texas           31                                          
1998/09/12  California       3  -  Nebraska        24                                          
1998/09/12  Oregon St       27  -  Baylor          17                                          
1998/01/01  UCLA            29  -  Texas A&M       23     !! Cotton Bowl !!                    
1997/09/20  California      40  -  Oklahoma        36                                          
1997/09/20  Washington      14  -  Nebraska        27                                          
1997/09/13  UCLA            66  -  Texas            3                                          
1996/12/30  Washington      21  -  Colorado        33     !! Holiday Bowl !!                   
1996/09/21  Oregon St       10  -  Baylor          42                                          
1996/09/21  Arizona St      19  -  Nebraska         0                                          
1996/08/31  Washington St   19  -  Colorado        37

Texas has more all time meeting with SEC schools than with any other current power 5 conference, for whatever that may be worth, and if I recall correctly, the PAC is 2nd...

utee94 · September 8, 2018

I respect your tenacity. kopp, I really do.

I think the fundamental problem with your B12/PAC merger is that you're asserting Texas would be in a South division with USC. But I think it's more likely that Texas would end up in an East division with current B12 schools plus Arizonas, Colorado and Utah. That doesn't sound attractive to me at all. It actually sounds worse than what we have right now. We'd play USC only once in a blue moon and honestly, USC is the only team in the PAC I care about. They're the PAC's sole blue blood program.

I like playing baseball and volleyball against Stanford, but we do that anyway.

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

6 hours ago, utee94 said:

I respect your tenacity. kopp, I really do.

I think the fundamental problem with your B12/PAC merger is that you're asserting Texas would be in a South division with USC. But I think it's more likely that Texas would end up in an East division with current B12 schools plus Arizonas, Colorado and Utah. That doesn't sound attractive to me at all. It actually sounds worse than what we have right now. We'd play USC only once in a blue moon and honestly, USC is the only team in the PAC I care about. They're the PAC's sole blue blood program.

I like playing baseball and volleyball against Stanford, but we do that anyway.

Agreed,you could be right, but also keep in mind the 2010 plan was east/ west...
But since then, the PAC is in a north/ south split, with 6 schools in each divisions....
If factoring the current alignment already has the California schools split between divisions, it's possible the same setup stays...

In doing so, the PAC-XII moves 2 XII members to the north:
Iowa State
Kansas
^[along with]: Colorado/ Utah/ California/ Stanford/ Oregon & Washington...

And also the PAC-XII merges, by adding 4 XII schools to the south:
TCU
Texas Tech
Texas
Oklahoma
^[along with]: Arizona/ Arizona State/ USC & UCLA

*(Oklahoma State & West Virginia join the SEC)
*(Washington State & Oregon State/ Kansas State, join the MWC)

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

2017 attendance for the Wildcats - 51,031
Schools Kansas State has better attendance figures than in the B1G west division:
Purdue - 47,884
Illinois - 39,429
Northwestern - 35,853
Minnesota - 44,358

In the B1G, in total, the Kansas State has a higher attendance than 7 members...
In the PAC, in total, the Kansas State has a higher attendance than 8 members...
In the SEC, in total, the Kansas State has a higher attendance than 1 members...
In the ACC, in total, the Kansas State has a higher attendance than 9 members...

KSU is a "darkhorse" for the SEC, attendance #'s within 7,000 or less average of:
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Kentucky
Missouri

And over at 20,000 higher than the average attendance for the Vanderbilt team... #JustThinkin'

camel at sea · September 8, 2018

21 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Expanding within Texas is absolutely the worst decision the Big 12 could do, outside not kicking out Baylor.

Going west is about as bad. College football is dictated by the east coast, not the west.

A really good college football game might get 5M viewers. Most college football viewers are regional (regardless of which conference you're in.) Most of the 100M+ people on the east coast live north of D.C. and do not care at all about college football. Building the sport around chasing east coast viewers is how you end up with Rutgers in the Big 10 playing games that nobody watches on the BTN. Once we hit a streaming era where northeasterners can opt out of buying the BTN, that addition won't even make financial sense anymore. The B1G is going to be saddled with a no-interest addition for decades because they were chasing dollars in a revenue model that changed a decade later.

Long term, college football is dictated by match-ups. "Match-ups" are primarily built on whether the two teams playing are ranked. #10 Baylor vs. #8 Oklahoma State can draw 5M viewers if you play the game in primetime on ABC. But to a lesser extent, college football is also dictated by whether the game has significance to the locals.

If you look at adding a school like Houston to the Big 12 they actually check both boxes. With talent shifting increasingly to the South, and away from the Great Plains and Midwest, the Coogs give you an addition that will frequently field an above average team. And they give you an addition with local interest. So maybe not right now, but at some point, expanding within Texas is going to make some sense.

kopp0e · September 8, 2018

So, in theory, the XII could have 9 out of 10 current XII members remain in a P4 conference (allowing the networks more content)...
While all XII members would join conferences that abut against current ACC/ SEC & PAC footprints (keeping regional rivalries)...

ACC - West Virginia
B1G - *Iowa State/ Kansas
SEC - Kansas State/ Oklahoma State
PAC - Oklahoma/ Texas/ Texas Tech/ TCU *(drop: Washington State/ Oregon State - add: Kansas/ Iowa State)

*Either option is a possibility, for multiple conferences...

Edited September 8, 2018 by kopp0e

kopp0e · September 9, 2018

If Jimbo is a success over the duration of his A&M tenure, till the end of the 10 year contract, could the SEC brand have an affect on UT & OU in realignment..?

It might at that point, be something the UT program looks at in expanding the "branding" of the school, in an expanded footprint for the sports teams in conference...

Retort: #RevenuesOverRivalries..?

Finally, a bit of history, on the shape of the SEC/ Big8 & SWC, when Kentucky last beat the Gators:

kopp0e · September 9, 2018

For those that say a PAC-XII merger wouldn't work:

Schools would have massive media presence in markets as: Los Angeles/ Phoenix & Dallas/ San Antonio...

And such a move counters the offensive tactics in recruiting afforded by the SEC brand against XII members:

Error_404 · September 10, 2018

On 3/25/2018 at 12:36 PM, Laxtonto said:

Just put BYU in a 10 school round robin roster. Every team plays each, call it Big Western Conference.

California

USC

UCLA

Arizona State

BYU

Colorado

Kansas

Oklahoma

Texas

Texas Tech

BYU is a way better school than Utah and has a bigger stadium and national title (the school really won).

And the same like Notre Dame with a large national and worldwide collection of fans in the Mormon faith.

'stache · September 10, 2018

Who let the sister wife in here?

camel at sea · September 10, 2018

That Buffs-Huskers game is the first time I've watched either school with much interest in several years. I'd be interested to know how their fans felt about it. Those two uniforms belong on a field together once per year.

Longboard Horn · September 10, 2018

On 9/7/2018 at 11:15 PM, utee94 said:

Oh no. Now you've done it. You made kopp bust out his maps.

Hurtlocker · September 16, 2018

On 9/8/2018 at 7:22 PM, camel at sea said:

A really good college football game might get 5M viewers. Most college football viewers are regional (regardless of which conference you're in.) Most of the 100M+ people on the east coast live north of D.C. and do not care at all about college football. Building the sport around chasing east coast viewers is how you end up with Rutgers in the Big 10 playing games that nobody watches on the BTN. Once we hit a streaming era where northeasterners can opt out of buying the BTN, that addition won't even make financial sense anymore. The B1G is going to be saddled with a no-interest addition for decades because they were chasing dollars in a revenue model that changed a decade later.

Long term, college football is dictated by match-ups. "Match-ups" are primarily built on whether the two teams playing are ranked. #10 Baylor vs. #8 Oklahoma State can draw 5M viewers if you play the game in primetime on ABC. But to a lesser extent, college football is also dictated by whether the game has significance to the locals.

If you look at adding a school like Houston to the Big 12 they actually check both boxes. With talent shifting increasingly to the South, and away from the Great Plains and Midwest, the Coogs give you an addition that will frequently field an above average team. And they give you an addition with local interest. So maybe not right now, but at some point, expanding within Texas is going to make some sense.

Maybe in 2075

camel at sea · September 17, 2018

On 9/16/2018 at 12:30 AM, Hurtlocker said:

Maybe in 2075

You over-punted by about 50 years.

Thiefery · September 17, 2018

Why is it going to be called the PAC 16 if a merger happens.. it should be the BIG 16 lol. As much as we bitch about the big 12, it's in a much better place than the Pac.

Hurtlocker · September 17, 2018

4 hours ago, camel at sea said:

You over-punted by about 50 years.

No, don't think I did. If they brought anything to the table they'd already be added, but they are not.

Hurtlocker · September 17, 2018

3 hours ago, Thiefery said:

Why is it going to be called the PAC 16 if a merger happens.. it should be the BIG 16 lol. As much as we bitch about the big 12, it's in a much better place than the Pac.

And the Big 12 already owns the trademark to the Big 16. Solved!

camel at sea · September 17, 2018

40 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

No, don't think I did. If they brought anything to the table they'd already be added, but they are not.

"If TCU brought anything to the table, they'd already be added." - Big 12 fan, 2005

We haven't been at the end of a contract period yet. A lot of things are changing (teams, university academic standing, winning, etc.) And you're the same guy arguing that the East Coast should rule decision-making on these issues. That type of thinking ignores the changes in how revenue will be made as we transition into the streaming era. And it's the same kind of thinking that tied Rutgers around the Big 10's neck for the next several decades.

No thanks. I'd rather let "who gives us the best match-ups" dictate our thinking. And there's no doubt that UH is either #1 or #2 among the G5 in that regard.

Hurtlocker · September 17, 2018

1 minute ago, camel at sea said:

"If TCU brought anything to the table, they'd already be added." - Big 12 fan, 2005

We haven't been at the end of a contract period yet. A lot of things are changing (teams, university academic standing, winning, etc.) And you're the same guy arguing that the East Coast should rule decision-making on these issues. That type of thinking ignores the changes in how revenue will be made as we transition into the streaming era. And it's the same kind of thinking that tied Rutgers around the Big 10's neck for the next several decades.

No thanks. I'd rather let "who gives us the best match-ups" dictate our thinking. And there's no doubt that UH is either #1 or #2 among the G5 in that regard.

And I'm telling you you're high if you think UH gives you the best match-ups.

camel at sea · September 17, 2018

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

And I'm telling you you're high if you think UH gives you the best match-ups.

Iowa State fan living on the east coast in denial that Texhoma vs. Texhoma games generate better ratings than [insert G5 team from out east] vs. Texhoma school? I suspect you're trying to apply NFL logic to college football and that doesn't work.

Just look at UH's TV ratings over the last few years every time they're playing a P5/Big 12 team on a decent channel. They've even had several AAC games that do really well. The UH - OU game to start the 2016 season had a better rating in the Houston market than every single college football game played on TV in the Houston market in the entire 2015 season - NY6 included. They're Top 25 in wins nationally over the last decade despite constant HC turnover. That tells me the local talent in Houston is really good.

We might very well end up with P5 options in the Big 12. I'm not all in on UH. But among the G5, they're going to penetrate the Texas college football fan market better than anyone else. That's going to matter even more in a streaming era. And if you penetrate that market very well, you're pulling down a good TV rating. I don't think you could guarantee the same for Cincinnati/UCF/USF vs any big 12 team.

Edited September 17, 2018 by camel at sea

Hurtlocker · September 17, 2018

1 minute ago, camel at sea said:

And if you penetrate that market very well, you're pulling down a good TV rating. I don't think you could guarantee the same for Cincinnati/UCF/USF vs any big 12 team.

I am not claiming you should add one of those either. My comment was there are twice as many people east than there are west. You don't gain anything by playing someone you could play with an OOC game anyway. And if they are going to join you it should be buzz worthy. UH is not buzzworthy. That's why the Big 12 didn't expand with them. It doesn't bring anything to the table that you don't already have.

'stache · September 17, 2018

Boise State brought a butt ton of fans to Stillwater and all seemed to be great fans. I don’t want to add them or promote any more G-5s, but it’s not my decision and if Boise were added it wouldn’t be the worst thing in my opinion.

camel at sea · September 18, 2018

28 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

I am not claiming you should add one of those either. My comment was there are twice as many people east than there are west. You don't gain anything by playing someone you could play with an OOC game anyway. And if they are going to join you it should be buzz worthy. UH is not buzzworthy. That's why the Big 12 didn't expand with them. It doesn't bring anything to the table that you don't already have.

Most of those people on the coast that you're referring to live north of D.C. And north of D.C. how many of those people watch college football? That east coast TV market is fool's gold for college football. Especially a college football conference largely based in the southwestern U.S. It's dumb for the Big 12 to make decisions based on that market. The Big 12's decision-making should primarily be driven by "how do I get DFW/Houston residents to turn on their TVs and watch this game?" When that happens for us, our TV numbers are competitively nationally. College football is regional. The South watches the SEC. The midwest watches the B1G. Texas watches the B12. California watches the PAC. The whole country doesn't tune in for anything outside of the CFP.

You *do* gain something if you add a team that helps you penetrate the Houston market a bunch of times every year. You can't replicate that with an OOC game. That consistent market presence is also how you flip Houston from a split market to a solidly Big 12 market.

As for buzzworthy? TCU wasn't buzzworthy. But they're working.

camel at sea · September 18, 2018

31 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Boise State brought a butt ton of fans to Stillwater and all seemed to be great fans. I don’t want to add them or promote any more G-5s, but it’s not my decision and if Boise were added it wouldn’t be the worst thing in my opinion.

Perception is temporary. TCU was in a major conference for 70 years. People too young to remember that bitched when they were added to the Big 12 because they didn't want to add a "mid major." That label is pretty much gone for them at this point. The thing that we should care about is 1) is that school going to win games, and 2) will our fans care to watch them. The problem I have with Boise is that I don't trust their ability to bring in competitive talent at the P5 level. They're going to be a massive resources disadvantage and they're a million miles from good talent.

That said they've got good fans for the level they're at and they've won at a high level for a long time. So the football culture there is really good and ID have no doubt they'd *try* to win if promoted up.

Treefidy · September 18, 2018

I would rather go to SEC with OU and OSU, the games would be far more interesting to me than the other conferences. UT, OU and LSU would evenly balance an East/West with Bama, UGA, barn.

Of course my scenario included kicking aggy out to make room which I think could be negotiated to bring 2 blue bloods in.

Grippe · September 18, 2018

On 9/7/2018 at 3:17 PM, kopp0e said:

The XII wouldn't go through all the logistical hurdles of adding the elite brands of the PAC in a merger, ala Big8/ SWC, just to place the "elite brands" in a late kickoff slot...

Those games for Texas/ USC/ Oklahoma/ UCLA would most likely air in slots between 2:30pm to 8:00pm, to maximize viewership on the east coast...

You gloss over fact that eventually a late PST game will occur. Pretty graphics are mesmerizing but don't change facts of time zone bias. I will forever neg any graphic laden post that attempts to occlude human reality. Fuck no to being in any conference servitude in the PST and FUCK NO to more repetitive obligations and less non-con games. I don't give two ghonnoriac shits about making it `bigger`, as a matter of fact go fuck yourself for thinking `bigger`. I want quality. I want BETTER.

Nick Saban figured it out. Wins matter, fuck kowtowing to media: if a program is winning the media will sell their soul to pay you to suck your peen.

gmr548 · September 18, 2018

The PAC isn't kicking out Oregon State and Washington State, and they sure as fuck aren't doing it to make room for Iowa State.

UH would be an okay add to the B12 as a tandem but the problem is there isn't really anything else out there that moves the needle and they aren't good enough to be the marquee add. I'm dead serious when I say I'd like to swap them for Baylor though.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Grippe · September 18, 2018

Wanna debate me? Good luck, look at espin and the laughable reporting on Urban, THE NUMBER TWO.

Treefidy · September 18, 2018

2 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Iowa State fan living on the east coast in denial that Texhoma vs. Texhoma games generate better ratings than [insert G5 team from out east] vs. Texhoma school? I suspect you're trying to apply NFL logic to college football and that doesn't work.

Just look at UH's TV ratings over the last few years every time they're playing a P5/Big 12 team on a decent channel. They've even had several AAC games that do really well. The UH - OU game to start the 2016 season had a better rating in the Houston market than every single college football game played on TV in the Houston market in the entire 2015 season - NY6 included. They're Top 25 in wins nationally over the last decade despite constant HC turnover. That tells me the local talent in Houston is really good.

We might very well end up with P5 options in the Big 12. I'm not all in on UH. But among the G5, they're going to penetrate the Texas college football fan market better than anyone else. That's going to matter even more in a streaming era. And if you penetrate that market very well, you're pulling down a good TV rating. I don't think you could guarantee the same for Cincinnati/UCF/USF vs any big 12 team.

I would guess the top 5 metros producing D1 talent are DFW, Houston, LA, Miami, Atlanta.

UH has very little competition for talent in city, Rice? I would second trading them for Baylor, and jumping up to P5 would certainly make them a better program, but they will never be a marquee program. Actually their ceiling is probably Baylor without the rape.

camel at sea · September 18, 2018

26 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

I would guess the top 5 metros producing D1 talent are DFW, Houston, LA, Miami, Atlanta.

UH has very little competition for talent in city, Rice? I would second trading them for Baylor, and jumping up to P5 would certainly make them a better program, but they will never be a marquee program. Actually their ceiling is probably Baylor without the rape.

There's no reason their ceiling would be lower than TCU. But more likely what you'd see is 7-9 wins per year once they get settled in. And an 8 win UH team is going to generate good TV numbers inside that market pretty consistently against Big 12 opponents.

kopp0e · September 18, 2018

On 3/26/2018 at 12:39 PM, Grippe said:

I sweatergawd, if Kn0ppe (or wutevar its name is) starts posting those retread/retarded graphics heavy shitstain posts here, I'll do something stupid like go full Rocko.

- Keeping the original post in mind, I'm not sure if there's intention to have serious discussion, or use this platform to rant against ideas you "don't approve", that's fine...

8 hours ago, Grippe said:

You gloss over fact that eventually a late PST game will occur. Pretty graphics are mesmerizing but don't change facts of time zone bias. I will forever neg any graphic laden post that attempts to occlude human reality. Fuck no to being in any conference servitude in the PST and FUCK NO to more repetitive obligations and less non-con games. I don't give two ghonnoriac shits about making it `bigger`, as a matter of fact go fuck yourself for thinking `bigger`. I want quality. I want BETTER.

Nick Saban figured it out. Wins matter, fuck kowtowing to media: if a program is winning the media will sell their soul to pay you to suck your peen.

Ok, as looking past the passive-aggressive linguistics, I will add PAC viewership/ attendance & B1G viewership/ attendance are more similar than most think...
This allows most current rivalries in XII to remain intact, UT & OU keep all current in state opponents schedule, in a PAC south division, & king status in league...
An alignment as this directly ties the 2 most valued recruiting areas in states of Texas & California, with annual road trips/ home games in a PAC-XII south division...
Top 100 media markets in US, PAC-XII merger has 31 cities, listed on Wikipedia, & hold 11 markets within the top 25 also, and all have current population growth...

2   Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA MSA   13,353,907   12,828,837   +4.09%   Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA CSA
4   Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX MSA   7,399,662   6,426,214   +15.15%   Dallas-Fort Worth, TX-OK CSA
5   Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA   6,892,427   5,920,416   +16.42%   Houston-The Woodlands, TX CSA
11   Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ MSA   4,737,270   4,192,887   +12.98%
12   San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA MSA   4,727,357   4,335,391   +9.04%   San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA
13   Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA   4,580,670   4,224,851   +8.42%   Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA CSA
15   Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA   3,867,046   3,439,809   +12.42%   Seattle-Tacoma, WA CSA
17   San Diego-Carlsbad, CA MSA   3,337,685   3,095,313   +7.83%
19   Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO MSA   2,888,227   2,543,482   +13.55%   Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO MSA
24   San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX MSA   2,473,974   2,142,508   +15.47%
25   Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA   2,453,168   2,226,009   +10.20%   Portland-Vancouver-Salem, OR-WA CSA
_ _ _ _ _
27   Sacramento–Roseville–Arden-Arcade, CA MSA   2,324,884   2,149,127   +8.18%   Sacramento-Roseville, CA CSA
30   Kansas City, MO-KS MSA   2,128,912   2,009,342   +5.95%   Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS CSA
31   Austin-Round Rock, TX MSA   2,115,827   1,716,289   +23.28%
35   San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA   1,998,463   1,836,911   +8.79%   San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA
41   Oklahoma City, OK MSA   1,383,737   1,252,987   +10.44%   Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK CSA
48   Salt Lake City, UT MSA   1,203,105   1,087,873   +10.59%   Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT CSA
53   Tucson, AZ MSA   1,022,769   980,263   +4.34%   Tucson-Nogales, AZ CSA
54   Tulsa, OK MSA   990,706   937,478   +5.68%   Tulsa-Muskogee-Bartlesville, OK CSA
55   Fresno, CA MSA   989,255   930,450   +6.32%   Fresno-Madera, CA CSA
62   Bakersfield, CA MSA   893,119   839,631   +6.37%
65   McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX MSA   860,661   774,769   +11.09%   McAllen-Edinburg, TX CSA
67   Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA MSA   854,223   823,318   +3.75%   Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA CSA
68   El Paso, TX MSA   844,818   804,123   +5.06%   El Paso-Las Cruces, TX-NM CSA
76   Stockton-Lodi, CA MSA   745,424   685,306   +8.77%   San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA
79   Colorado Springs, CO MSA   723,878   645,613   +12.12%
84   Ogden-Clearfield, UT MSA   665,358   597,159   +11.42%   Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT CSA
88   Des Moines-West Des Moines, IA MSA   645,911   569,633   +13.39%   Des Moines-Ames-West Des Moines, IA CSA
89   Wichita, KS MSA   645,628   630,919   +2.33%   Wichita-Arkansas City-Winfield, KS CSA
91   Provo-Orem, UT MSA   617,675   526,810   +17.25%   Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT CSA
98   Spokane-Spokane Valley, WA MSA   564,236   527,753   +6.91%   Spokane-Spokane Valley-Coeur d'Alene, WACSA

8 hours ago, gmr548 said:

The PAC isn't kicking out Oregon State and Washington State, and they sure as fuck aren't doing it to make room for Iowa State.

UH would be an okay add to the B12 as a tandem but the problem is there isn't really anything else out there that moves the needle and they aren't good enough to be the marquee add. I'm dead serious when I say I'd like to swap them for Baylor though.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

In a potential PAC-XII merger, there's many possible conference configurations that could be a final outcome, not counting if SEC or B1G looks at adding a XII member(s)...

Of, course, I'm a fan of keeping as many regional rivalries intact as possible, a simple move would be just "merge" the 12 PAC schools & the top 8 XII brands...
After that, it's a situation where a member may already be "poached" by either or both SEC & B1G, that's what I'd rather avoid, as UT/A&M-UT/Arky-OU/Nebbie-KU/MIzzou rivalries are already gone from the end of year conference slate... The XII has solid fan attendance, while the PAC has great megalopolises, which the PAC & XII saw as positive in 2010...

Top 12 rated games of week 1 & 2:

WEEK 1 COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS
RTG VWRS
(+ Stream) GAME CONF DATE/TIME NET

#1 - 4.0 7.091M MICH-ND B1G, IND 9/1, 7:30p NBC
#2 - 3.8 6.553M Miami-LSU ACC, SEC 9/2, 7:30p ABC
#3 - 3.4 (5.576M) VT-FSU ACC 9/3, 8:00p ESPN
#4 - 3.2 5.253M WASH-AUB P12, SEC 9/1, 3:30p ABC
#5 - 2.7 4.540M LOU-ALA ACC, SEC 9/1, 8:00p ABC
#6 - 2.2 3.487M ORE ST-OSU P12, B1G 9/1, Noon ABC
#7 - 1.6 2.647M WVU-TENN B12, SEC 9/1, 3:30p CBSTop 12 rated games of week 1 & 2:

WEEK 1 COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS
RTG VWRS
(+ Stream) GAME CONF DATE/TIME NET

#1 - 4.0 7.091M MICH-ND B1G, IND 9/1, 7:30p NBC
#2 - 3.8 6.553M Miami-LSU ACC, SEC 9/2, 7:30p ABC
#3 - 3.4 (5.576M) VT-FSU ACC 9/3, 8:00p ESPN
#4 - 3.2 5.253M WASH-AUB P12, SEC 9/1, 3:30p ABC
#5 - 2.7 4.540M LOU-ALA ACC, SEC 9/1, 8:00p ABC
#6 - 2.2 3.487M ORE ST-OSU P12, B1G 9/1, Noon ABC
#7 - 1.6 2.647M WVU-TENN B12, SEC 9/1, 3:30p CBS
#8 - 1.2 (1.929M) MISS-TTU SEC, B12 9/1, Noon ESPN
#9 - 1.0 (1.741M) NWSTN-PUR BIG 8/30, 8:00p ESPN
#10 - 0.9 (1.409M) WKU-WISC CUSA, BIG 8/31, 9:00p ESPN
#11 - 0.9 1.385M FAU-OKLA CUSA, B12 9/1, 12:30p FOX
#12 - 0.75 (1.288M) BYU-ARIZ IND, P12 9/1, 10:45p ESPN
WEEK 2 COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS
RTG VWRS
(+ Stream) GAME CONF DATE/TIME NET
- - - - - - - - - -
#1 - 2.6 (4.486M) CLEM-TX A&M ACC, SEC 9/8, 7:00p ESPN
#2 - 2.3 3.747M UGA-SC SEC 9/8, 3:30p CBS
#3 - 2.1 3.394M COL-NEB P12, B1G 9/8, 3:30p ABC
#4 - 2.0 3.286M PSU-PITT B1G, ACC 9/8, 8:00p ABC
#5 - 1.8 2.896M UCLA-OKLA P12, B12 9/8, 1:00p FOX
#6 - 1.7 2.539M ARIZ-HOU & GT-USF P12, AAC ACC, AAC 9/8, Noon ABC
#7 - 1.6 2.453M BALL-ND MAC, IND 9/8, 3:30p NBC
#8 - 1.5 (2.297M) MSU-ASU B1G, P12 9/8, 10:45p ESPN
#9 - 1.4 2.290M USC-STAN P12 9/8, 8:45p FOX
#10 - 1.2 2.017M Iowa St.-Iowa B12, BIG 9/8, 5:00p FOX
#11 - 1.1 (1.800M) MISS ST-K-State SEC, B12 9/8, Noon ESPN
#12 - 1.0 (1.663M) ARK ST-ALA SUN, SEC 9/8, 3:30p ESPN2

#(Also note out of non-top 12 games):

The percentage of viewers for California @ BYU game at 10:15pm, is actually higher than Duke @ Northwestern at noon:
0.34 (586K) Cal-BYU P12, IND 9/8, 10:15p ESPN2
n.a. (337K) Duke-NWSTN ACC, B1G 9/8, Noon ESPNU

The percentage of viewers for TCU @ SMU game at 10:00pm (Friday night), is actually higher than W.Michigan @ Michigan at noon:
0.7 (1.076M) TCU-SMU B12, AAC 9/7, 10:00p ESPN2
0.6 914K WMU-MICH MAC, B1G 9/8, Noon FS1

#(Also note out of top 12 games):

There was only 1 B1G game rated in the top 12 in either week, not including Ohio State/ Michigan/ Michigan State or Penn State...

[* - n.a. (1.867M) College Gameday 9/1, 9:00a ESPN (Rated in top 12 in both weeks)]

From this tally of weeks 1 & 2, the PAC & XII hold up respectful #'s...
In week 1:
ACC - (*5) teams *[counting Notre Dame]
B1G - (5) teams
SEC - (5) teams
XII - (3) teams
PAC - (3) teams

^In a proposed PAC-XII merger, the total would have been: (5) teams...

In week 2:
ACC - (*3) teams *[counting Notre Dame]
B1G - (4) teams
SEC - (5) teams
XII - (3) teams
PAC - (6) teams

^In a proposed PAC-XII merger, the total would have been: (8) teams... +[9, if counting KSU]

Also, the tally of the 1st two weeks of ratings show the "smaller brands" of both leagues hold up well, and can be "staggered in broadcast windows of:
(CTZ also in the MTZ & PTZ) 11:00a/ 12:00p/ 2:30p/ 4:30p/ 5:30p/ 6:00p/ 7:00p/ 8:00p & 10:15p, is available for a combined markets in XII, included with PAC locations...

The narrative of PAC lacking markets is disproved in cities (1st two weeks of games rated):

Seattle (Washington)
Portland (Oregon State)
San Francisco (Stanford/ California)
Los Angeles (USC/ UCLA)
Phoenix (Arizona/ Arizona State)
Salt Lake City (Utah)
Denver (Colorado)

And markets of XII are represented by both metro areas in states of Texas & Oklahoma...

Oklahoma City (Oklahoma)
Dallas (TCU/ Texas Tech)
Houston (Texas)

It's better than sitting back, allowing either B1G or SEC to look at being proactive in parsing the conference, in an era when Amazon is looking to enter live sports near 2025...

kopp0e · September 18, 2018

Just to display that this isn't a personal crusade anti-B1G, in fact I supported a move of Oklahoma to either PAC or B1G... That it's been a gradual transition from blindly supporting a move of OU/ KU to B1G, to understanding there's many "hurdles" in a move... The point has always been pro-XII/ merging expanding/ being absorbed into PAC, as the more I look into it, other than "network analyst" showing market penetration currently stronger to east in SEC (nearly conference wide), & B1G (roughly 50% of league), a merger, of XII & PAC, nearly the same could be had in markets 1/3rd of the US largest markets, as well as PAC & B1G having nearly identical #'s stadium attendance & viewing saturation (about 50%), at 7 schools in B1G, 7 schools in PAC with lackluster #'s, vs SEC solid across the board...

Example, as current out of conference losses between 2 of the 3 most likely conferences who look to "poach" XII members:

PAC- 6 out of 12 teams with (OOC) losses, 50%...
Washington- #7Auburn (16-21)/
Oregon State- #4Ohio State (31-77)/ Nevada (35-37)/
Arizona- BYU (23-28)/ Houston (18-45)
UCLA- Cincinnati (17-26)/ #5Oklahoma (21-49)/ Fresno State (14-38)/
Arizona State- San Diego State (21-28)/
USC- Texas (14-37)/

B1G- 8 out of 14 teams with (OOC) losses, 57%...
Maryland- Temple (14-35)/
Michigan- #8Notre Dame (17-24)/
Rutgers- Kansas (14-55)/
Northwestern- Duke (7-21)/ Akron (34-39)/
Illinois- USF (19-25)/
Wisconsin- BYU (21-24)/
Nebraska- Colorado (28-33)/ Troy (19-24)/
Purdue- E. Michigan/ (19-20)/ Missouri (37-40)/

The PAC lost to 30% of it's (OOC) games to teams ranked in the top 25...
The B1G lost to 9% of it's (OOC) games to teams ranked in the top 25...
Obviously, things could easily flip next week, but as of now, the PAC record is better...
This is just for a current, up to date tally of which league has worse losses between the PAC & B1G...

And in regards to average attendance at stadiums between the 2 conferences of XII & B1G, here are the figures from last season:

The XII has more teams with higher attendance than teams in the B1G...

Iowa State-57,931/ Oklahoma State-56,790/ Texas Tech-55,065/ Kansas State-51,301

Purdue- 47,884
Minnesota- 44,358
Indiana-43,953
Rutgers-39,749
Maryland-39,643
Illinois- 39,429
N'western-35,853

The XII "small brands" of the Cyclones/ Cowboys/ Red Raiders & Wildcats outdraw 6 state flagships & 1 private school, in the B1G...

- The voice of presidents/ BoR's & network analyst matter, of course, but so does voices of alumni/ donors & fans, who "if they don't like the product, won't buy"...
That could be less viewing product, the last thing needed is apathy, as in small stadiums as 50% of schools in B1G has less attendance than Oklahoma State......

Quote

Big 12 well-positioned for future television contracts - NewsOK

https://newsok.com/article/5603855/b...dcasters-covet
Aug 6, 2018 - The Big 12 signed television contracts with ESPN and Fox in 2012, with ... the Pac-12's contracts expire in summer 2024 and the SEC's contract ...

Quote

Pac-12 Eyes 2024 TV Negotiations After League Extends ... - Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/.../pac-12-ey...gue-extends-un...
Jul 8, 2018 - Headquartered in the middle Silicon Valley, the Pac-12 is looking for ways to monetize its digital content by the next round of media negotiations in 2024. ... For now, the league is bound for the most part by the contractual ...

Quote

Conference re-alignment will come - shaped by tech, not TV

247Sports-May 31, 2018
“Conference realignment will come,” he said, “but probably not in the way ... when it comes to knowing how to use the future broadcast technologies, ... and other 'name brand' schools like Ohio State, Oklahoma and Alabama, ...

There's a lot of upside to XII, so much so that possibly PAC would look into a potential merger/ alliance type situation, while gaining revenues from the likes of Amazon...

The PAC & XII would reform or one absorb the other similar to the SWC & Big8 back in 1996:

Quote

Big 12 expansion: Oral history of Big 8-SWC merger | SI.com

https://www.si.com/college.../2016/....ig-8-swc-merge...
Aug 16, 2016 - 6 in the final poll, in the 20 years and 960 conference football games .... Throughout the early '90s, any talk of a Big Eight-SWC merger was just ...

And the same is speculated nationally as well of a PAC-XII merger, on occasion...

Quote

College Sports: Flashpoint: The forces that could extinguish the Big 12 ...

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/......-12-coming-sid...
May 20, 2018 - Or maybe the leagues merge, say 10 teams from the Pac-12 and six from ... And if you thought the old Southwest Conference/Big Eight talks got ...

Should the Big 12 and Pac-12 Merge? | The Tailgate Society

https://thetailgatesociety.com › SPORTS
Jul 9, 2018 - I'm talking about a merger between the Big 12 Conference and Pac-12 Conference. The Great Plains and Southwest meet the West Coast.

tonedeaf · September 18, 2018

Its obvious we all have out opinions about realignment. I think UT/TT/OU/OSU going to the PAC would be great. Opinions vary though, but can we all agree that whatever we do, we gonna do it without baylor? Fuck those assholes.

'stache · September 18, 2018

11 hours ago, Treefidy said:

I would rather go to SEC with OU and OSU, the games would be far more interesting to me than the other conferences. UT, OU and LSU would evenly balance an East/West with Bama, UGA, barn.

Of course my scenario included kicking aggy out to make room which I think could be negotiated to bring 2 blue bloods in.

I think it's more likely that Mizzou would go Big 10 with KU in that scenario.

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