Realignment talk not going away

[Crockett 517]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

BYU fans shitting on Utah incessantly and comparing them to aggy…

 

 

 

The thing about this is that almost all of the comments comparing utah to aggy are from non-BYU fans in here. I may like the posts, but I haven't compared them once. Dreamer maybe once. I think it's funny that a bunch of fans of other schools are coming to the conclusion on their own without me/BYU fans in here (2 of us as far as I can tell) uttering a word, that lots of Utah fans are highly delusional and arrogant. 

[Upgrayedd 5889]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

I guess I'm not clear where this comes from, Utah message boards? I've learned not to judge fanbases based on the select few who post on message boards. We tend to trend towards degenerate fans. If it comes down to football success, they can hardly be called delusional after thumping USC twice to win back to back PAC 12 titles. They can at least back up some arrogance on the field. I doubt i'll encounter many Utah fans on regular basis so that also means I don't really care if their fans are good or bad. From what I can tell, BYU fans are truly delusional, especially everytime they say "NatioNAl FanBASe", it's truly laughable. 

Utah tailgating is a fun experience.  Welcoming fans.  Plenty of booze and food.  Wasatch backdrop.  Done that trip at least 4 times.

[DanTheHorn 5079]

SIAP

Edited August 3, 2023 by DanTheHorn

[Sir Ulrich 5337]

 

 

 

[bullet 1630]

4 hours ago, Not a Sock said:

Will you stupid fucks quit regurgitating the FSU fraud theory. If that dumb message board crap is was credible I would have been able to sue Penny Mac for fraud when interest rates went lower than the rates of my fixed rate mortgage.

It doesn't have to work in court to work in fact.  Just force the ACC to spend money on lawyers and get the ACC to the table.  As Wilner said in that article, show me a contract that can't be broken and I will show you a world that doesn't exist.  Everything has a price.  UT and OU did get out a year early and paid less than the stated exit fee.

And Swofford was a crook.  But I think everyone knew that.

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I guess I'm not clear where this comes from, Utah message boards? I've learned not to judge fanbases based on the select few who post on message boards. We tend to trend towards degenerate fans. If it comes down to football success, they can hardly be called delusional after thumping USC twice to win back to back PAC 12 titles. They can at least back up some arrogance on the field. I doubt i'll encounter many Utah fans on regular basis so that also means I don't really care if their fans are good or bad. From what I can tell, BYU fans are truly delusional, especially everytime they say "NatioNAl FanBASe", it's truly laughable. 

It's message boards and Twitter, but they're like lock step in unison in denigrating the Big 12 as something beneath them.  It's not a couple fans, it's nearly every single one with an online presence.

I think Utah's a very good program on the field.  That doesn't have fuck all to do with anything in realignment.  The Big 12 is such a massive upgrade from going down with the Pac 12 ship, and they act like it's a lesser choice.  They are explicit that they don't think they should have to associate with schools like us.  Not football programs - schools, fanbases, humans.  The people of the Plains/Midwest are inferior humans.

Again, it's message board silliness, but it seems like a definite feature of their collective culture, and I'm glad to have a fanbase or two that thinks like this.  Arizona fans are excited about joining the Big 12.  The 4 schools that called up are excited about joining the Big 12.  Colorado fans are a bit like Utah, but there's a lot more enthusiasm.  Utah would rather be in a reconstituted Pac/MWC.  That's not a reason to not add a valuable program, but it is a reason to view their fans as heels in the new arrangement.

[bullet 1630]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

It's mostly the BYU contingent here that is staying Utah is the worst thing ever.  That's...expected?  Everyone thinks their rivals are the worst thing ever and toss puppies into bonfires while laughing (except for OU, where they actually do that).

Turn this around from the Utah perspective and I have empathy...the PAC brought them up to the big leagues.  They've built themselves up as a legit power there and won it twice in a row now, taking down the likes of USC.  If I were them I'd want things to remain the same too.  They'll be fine in the Big12 and that's probably where they culturally belong anyway.

Well their message board people do think they are above the Big 12 when they have hardly accomplished anything in sports (I think they had a bb title in the 40s and were runnerup in the 90s and have a couple Pac 12 titles in fb).  And academically while they may be in the same conference, they aren't in the same league as Washington, Cal, Stanford, USC and UCLA.  And maybe not Colorado.  Even if they are AAU, they are closer to the big 12 schools.

[DanTheHorn 5079]

This response made me laugh

 

[Royale with cheese 1491]

14 hours ago, lemonandaturd said:

Utah:  I was just foolin' about.  Big 12:  I wasn't.

Poor soul. You were just too high-strung.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

10 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's message boards and Twitter, but they're like lock step in unison in denigrating the Big 12 as something beneath them.  It's not a couple fans, it's nearly every single one with an online presence.

I think Utah's a very good program on the field.  That doesn't have fuck all to do with anything in realignment.  The Big 12 is such a massive upgrade from going down with the Pac 12 ship, and they act like it's a lesser choice.  They are explicit that they don't think they should have to associate with schools like us.  Not football programs - schools, fanbases, humans.  The people of the Plains/Midwest are inferior humans.

Again, it's message board silliness, but it seems like a definite feature of their collective culture, and I'm glad to have a fanbase or two that thinks like this.  Arizona fans are excited about joining the Big 12.  The 4 schools that called up are excited about joining the Big 12.  Colorado fans are a bit like Utah, but there's a lot more enthusiasm.  Utah would rather be in a reconstituted Pac/MWC.  That's not a reason to not add a valuable program, but it is a reason to view their fans as heels in the new arrangement.

It's also some of their beat reporters, who often will reflect/project the prevailing attitude of not just alumni, fans, and locals, but very well often the administrators.  I listen to some of the guests come on 365 and other shows who are the Locked-On Utes, or 247 Utah person, or someone else in a similar role, and they all exude this arrogant attitude that Utah is simply better than anyone in the Big 12 except for Texas.  I forgot which show I was listening to on the drive home yesterday but I heard a Utah media guy just keep saying how Utah would prefer Pac 10 because it's more in alignment with their academics, they like the destinations better,  that if Utah did go to the Big 12 they would be instantly the top brand both academically and athletically, etc.  And they are speaking of the attitudes of the administration, not just the fans.

This isn't just messageboard and twitter fodder.  This is what their mouthpieces are saying on national and youtube sports talk shows.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Uncle Nate

[bullet 1630]

23 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

It is finally starting to set in since they are no longer putting themselves in the consideration lists.

 

I hate to see anyone left behind, well SMU deserved it, but WSU and OSU have small fan bases.  The only P5 schools WSU outdraws are Duke and Vanderbilt.  They would only be average attendance in the AAC.  Oregon St. only beat WSU, Duke, Vandy, Wake Forest and Kansas over the last 4 years.  But KU outdrew them by 12k last year when KU was no longer the worst team in FBS.  They draw like small private schools despite WSU having over 20k students and OSU over 30k.

They seem likely to join SWC members SMU and Rice, Tulane (who did it to themselves withdrawing from the SEC in the 60s and dropping bb in the 80s), and Big East members USF, UConn and Temple as the dumped.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3510]

40 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

It is finally starting to set in since they are no longer putting themselves in the consideration lists.

 

I hate to be that guy but Oregon State and Wazzu were pretty lucky to get to ride the P5 money train for as long as they have. It sucks to be sure but it was bound to come to an end eventually, least they got a bunch of money and decent facilities and small but passionate fanbase out of it. Any school in a G5 conference which gets pennies on the dollar compared to even Pac10 or ACC money would gladly have traded places with either of them knowing the likely outcome...

[LTbear 4213]

13 minutes ago, bullet said:

I hate to see anyone left behind, well SMU deserved it, but WSU and OSU have small fan bases.  The only P5 schools WSU outdraws are Duke and Vanderbilt.  They would only be average attendance in the AAC.  Oregon St. only beat WSU, Duke, Vandy, Wake Forest and Kansas over the last 4 years.  But KU outdrew them by 12k last year when KU was no longer the worst team in FBS.  They draw like small private schools despite WSU having over 20k students and OSU over 30k.

They seem likely to join SWC members SMU and Rice, Tulane (who did it to themselves withdrawing from the SEC in the 60s and dropping bb in the 80s), and Big East members USF, UConn and Temple as the dumped.

Montana, an FCS school, gets attendance at or near WSU and OSU (23,000 - 25,000 vs average 26,000 and 31,000). 

That said, still sucks. Back in the day the PAC 10 was awesome. Every single school had a natural in-state rival, with a couple of additional rivalries scattered about. I know many of us are just to old man yelling at cloud stage, but I really miss college football that focused on regionality and rivalries, including the smaller teams, because damn how awesome was it to see stuff like the 1967 "Giant Killers" of OSU or a 2002 WSU team win the PAC (or a Pirate-led WSU team reach 11 wins). I will miss that shit. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by LTbear

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Truer words...

 

 

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

 

 

[hook me 2163]

15 minutes ago, bullet said:

I hate to see anyone left behind, well SMU deserved it, but WSU and OSU have small fan bases.  The only P5 schools WSU outdraws are Duke and Vanderbilt.  They would only be average attendance in the AAC.  Oregon St. only beat WSU, Duke, Vandy, Wake Forest and Kansas over the last 4 years.  But KU outdrew them by 12k last year when KU was no longer the worst team in FBS.  They draw like small private schools despite WSU having over 20k students and OSU over 30k.

They seem likely to join SWC members SMU and Rice, Tulane (who did it to themselves withdrawing from the SEC in the 60s and dropping bb in the 80s), and Big East members USF, UConn and Temple as the dumped.

In fairness to OSU, their stadium was under construction this year. Their capacity was only 26k & it says they averaged 28k in attendance so I'd imagine it was a pretty decent atmosphere. Their new capacity is 35k so it'll be interesting to see what their attendance looks like this year. Anyone actually watch any of their games to know what the attendance & atmosphere was actually like?

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

 

 

[BachelorTrek 3320]

2 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

ASU prez got it 'xplained to him what this was about.  Lulz.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

7 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

Seriously?  He was content with the Apple deal?

Holy shit...this guy is in charge of a P5 university with that mindset?  How is this even possible?

[Sir Ulrich 5337]

5 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

 

 

This probably tells more about the Oregon/Washington smoke being real. 

 

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

 

The PAC will have 4 teams left over after this to merge with the MWC's 11. Does a 15 team PAC/MWC get closer to the $4 million MWC deal or $20 million PAC deal? 

[Sbbruin 22143]

I wonder if 20 years from now with the benefit of hindsight we look back and the big 12 expanded too much

These monstrous sized conferences don't sound like a lot of fun. "We came in 4th in a 20 team conference." Well that's just super. Winning conference championships will be extremely hard to come by.

[BachelorTrek 3320]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Seriously?  He was content with the Apple deal?

Holy shit...this guy is in charge of a P5 university with that mindset?  How is this even possible?

I've known a few people that went there and taught there at ASU, and I've even visited the campus.

What I most remember is the ASU mantra repeated of tuition being "as affordable as possible" in both news articles about tuition, but it's even on some of their websites.

I wonder if the money isn't their main concern, neither...... until someone important (boosters/others/etc.) explains it to them. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by BachelorTrek

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

 

[Sir Ulrich 5337]

    .

Edited August 3, 2023 by Sir Ulrich
too slow

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

2 hours ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

It's mostly the BYU contingent here that is staying Utah is the worst thing ever.  That's...expected?  Everyone thinks their rivals are the worst thing ever and toss puppies into bonfires while laughing (except for OU, where they actually do that).

Turn this around from the Utah perspective and I have empathy...the PAC brought them up to the big leagues.  They've built themselves up as a legit power there and won it twice in a row now, taking down the likes of USC.  If I were them I'd want things to remain the same too.  They'll be fine in the Big12 and that's probably where they culturally belong anyway.

It's really weird because rivalries are fun and mean a whole lot more when the games you play have actual stakes. It makes no sense why BYU and Utah would prefer to be in different conferences, unless it's more of an anti-mormon thing than a sports rivalry.

[Dnaguy 12628]

6 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

These monstrous sized conferences don't sound like a lot of fun. "We came in 4th in a 20 team conference." Well that's just super. Winning conference championships will be extremely hard to come by.

Expanding the playoffs made conference championships meaningless.

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

Expanding the playoffs made conference championships meaningless.

You quite literally need to win your conference to get a bye. 

[USC_TMB 405]

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

Expanding the playoffs made conference championships meaningless.

It’s heading towards the NFL model of “as long as we get a wild-card berth or better… we’re in the playoffs”.  Sad but true. It will come down to who peaks or gets hot come playoff time

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

9 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

These monstrous sized conferences don't sound like a lot of fun. "We came in 4th in a 20 team conference." Well that's just super. Winning conference championships will be extremely hard to come by.

Yes, and the champion will have only played half of the schools in the conference.

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Seriously?  He was content with the Apple deal?

Holy shit...this guy is in charge of a P5 university with that mindset?  How is this even possible?

He's an ISU alum, unfortunately.  I don't know if he spent a lot of time getting wedgies in Ames or something, but he really seems to hate the Midwest.

[FartingDreamer 138]

13 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

Are most Univ. of Utah folks not also LDS?

A big portion are (including many of the Apostles, some of the First Presidency and many in the Quorum of the Seventy), but the University as an institution and a large portion of it's faculty are openly hostile towards LDS and the church and towards BYU, though BYU is the superior/higher ranked institution.

11 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

 

Let me preface this by saying I've never met a Utah fan in my life, so I'll have to take your word on the animosity toward the LDS by way of BYU in that state. I don't know if it's rational or even if there's any cause for reason. At this, I can only speculate.

However, I can easily imagine how a non-LDS person might feel living in Utah as someone who spent many of my formative years living in an area that was dominated by a religious flavor to which I didn't adhere, and I can speak with a good bit of experience in saying that it absolutely sucks to be proselytized to and considered a deviant sinner by a large group who control all the levers of power in a particular locale.

Could those same feelings be driving the BYU hate by Utah fans, who maybe are fans solely for the above reasons? It certainly seems plausible, given the enthusiastic testimony of LDS witnesses whose mission is to win over as many converts as possible by riding through neighborhoods and knocking on every door without asking. I can imagine those missions are especially intense in the heart of Mormon country.

Have you ever asked yourself whether it was you who was without self-awareness? I dunno. Just some food for thought.

I see what you are saying and I get the frustration and why they would feel the way they do.  But they take things too far re: harassing, pouring drinks on us, spitting on us, cussing at us and children at the games, openly mocking our religion.  One guy took a sacrament tray from a local church and repurposed a sacrament trey for jello shots.  A friend had her uncle punched in the stomach while at a game in Rice Eccles when we played them a few years back and someone else had their car vandalized.  They take it way beyond rivalry banter into pure hostility and the LDS Ute fans turn a blind eye to it and don't speak up about it.    I remember the reports of Ohio State fans from when Texas played them in Columbus in 2005, it was like that but worse as the hostility follows us into their stadium.

Edited August 3, 2023 by FartingDreamer

[Frank Drebin 5834]

2 minutes ago, USC_TMB said:

It’s heading towards the NFL model of “as long as we get a wild-card berth or better… we’re in the playoffs”.  Sad but true. It will come down to who peaks or gets hot come playoff time

I think it makes more regular season games meaningful.  You aren't out of it if you lose early.

Also, getting the bye is huge.

[gatormarc 937]

Wait... are there still 8?

 

[bullet 1630]

6 minutes ago, USC_TMB said:

It’s heading towards the NFL model of “as long as we get a wild-card berth or better… we’re in the playoffs”.  Sad but true. It will come down to who peaks or gets hot come playoff time

Well for about a dozen schools.  The rest would like a conference title.

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

5 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

A big portion are (including many of the Apostles, some of the First Presidency and many in the Quorum of the Seventy), but the University as an institution and a large portion of it's faculty are openly hostile towards LDS and the church and towards BYU, though BYU is the superior/higher ranked institution.

I see what you are saying and I get the frustration and why they would feel the way they do.  But they take things too far re: harassing, pouring drinks on us, spitting on us, cussing at us and children at the games, openly mocking our religion.  One guy took a sacrament tray from a local church and repurposed a sacrament trey for jello shots.  A friend had her uncle punched in the stomach while at a game in Rice Eccles when we played them a few years back and someone else had their car vandalized.  They take it way beyond rivalry banter into pure hostility and the LDS Ute fans turn a blind eye to it and don't speak up about it.    I remember the reports of Ohio State fans from when Texas played them in Columbus in 2005, it was like that but worse as the hostility follows us into their stadium.

Ok, I'm all in on Utah.  That's funny as hell.  You've gotta be able to laugh at that.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

Imagine getting a conference schedule against Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Cal, Stanford, Minnesota, and Northwestern. 

Nebraska could almost get bowl eligible with that schedule.

[bullet 1630]

Not sure if its been posted above, but Wilner said the Pac's fate will be decided in the next 24-36 hours.

Lots of stuff going on.  ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac schools.  Sounds like he is right finally.

[FartingDreamer 138]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Ok, I'm all in on Utah.  That's funny as hell.  You've gotta be able to laugh at that.

I get what you are saying. I have a great sense of humor (I nearly wet my pants to Orgazmo and the South Park episode making fun of Mormons)  To me it comes down to intent, but it can be hard to laugh at somebody intentionally mocking something I hold to be sacred and very personal in order to get at me and under my skin.  It just crosses a line as the intent is just completely different.  

[TrashMaster G 18086]

5 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

I get what you are saying. I have a great sense of humor (I nearly wet my pants to Orgazmo and the South Park episode making fun of Mormons)  To me it comes down to intent, but it can be hard to laugh at somebody intentionally mocking something I hold to be sacred and very personal in order to get at me and under my skin.  It just crosses a line as the intent is just completely different.  

Keep that in mind if you or some of your Brethren flash the Horns down this fall. 

(Kidding... mostly)

[FartingDreamer 138]

8 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Keep that in mind if you or some of your Brethren flash the Horns down this fall. 

(Kidding... mostly)

I can't stand the horns down sign.  It's stupid and classless.  Especially when WVU did it a few years back.  Kalani wouldn't allow our players to do something so petty.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by FartingDreamer

[Richard Kimball 1523]

43 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

These monstrous sized conferences don't sound like a lot of fun. "We came in 4th in a 20 team conference." Well that's just super. Winning conference championships will be extremely hard to come by.

Especially for UCLA. 

 

Dammit. I didn't want to say that. Why did you feed me a straight line? 

[Josef Pwag 1912]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

I actually think this is just intense saber rattling to get the ACC to give them a bigger revenue distribution.  

This isn't it. The FSU Board Chair was on Warchant before their big meeting yesterday. He told those guys that unequal revenue sharing is on the table, but at most, it would mean an additional $5million a year. That doesn't come close to making up the difference between FSU and their rivals.

The B1G makes all the sense in the world for FSU. Florida TV markets that they don't have now are of great value. Of course, this would make ESPN oppose that move all the more. 

[0xdeadbeef 1699]

18 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Ok, I'm all in on Utah.  That's funny as hell.  You've gotta be able to laugh at that.

Gott disagree with you there chief. 

There are limits of what's funny, and lines that shouldn't be crossed.   Doesn't matter if it's race hatred, sexual assult, or religious intolerance, it's all evil shit.   Taking something that one religion considers sacred and defiling it to fuck with them isn't funny.   I put that shit in the same catagory as burning a cross on someone's yard or passing off sexual assult as hazing. 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

1 minute ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Gott disagree with you there chief. 

There are limits of what's funny, and lines that shouldn't be crossed.   Doesn't matter if it's race hatred, sexual assult, or religious intolerance, it's all evil shit.   Taking something that one religion considers sacred and defiling it to fuck with them isn't funny.   I put that shit in the same catagory as burning a cross on someone's yard or passing off sexual assult as hazing. 

I'm all for playful mocking of any religion.  Burning a cross in someone's yard is a very direct threat of violence, and an act of arson.  Sexual assault is sexual assault.

Using a sacrament tray to serve booze is disrespectful, but it's in no way threatening or assaulting.

[SimkinsMan 4554]

5 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Gott disagree with you there chief. 

There are limits of what's funny, and lines that shouldn't be crossed.   Doesn't matter if it's race hatred, sexual assult, or religious intolerance, it's all evil shit.   Taking something that one religion considers sacred and defiling it to fuck with them isn't funny.   I put that shit in the same catagory as burning a cross on someone's yard or passing off sexual assult as hazing. 

No, it's funny as hell. 

[Park Gothic 5375]

Oh cool, religion and politics in the realignment thread. 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't think Utah is evil.  I just think their fans come off as laughably delusional and easy to dislike.  They'll make things more entertaining for sure.

Yeah they're odd. I've seen on their board where they said they should be in the title game 95% of the time in the B12. This is a group that has lost at least 3 games a year for the last 15 years. I think they'll be as good as anyone else in the new conference but that's KU basketball level.

[DanTheHorn 5079]

28 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

I can't stand the horns down sign.  It's stupid and classless.  Especially when WVU did it a few years back.  Kalani wouldn't allow our players to do something so petty.  

Well you have a stronger opinion on it than most Texas fans here on Surly. We don't care and find it funny that the CFB community thinks we care. Teams doing horns down other than OU. Texas fans reaction.

Edited August 3, 2023 by DanTheHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

3 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Well you have a stronger opinion on it than most Texas fans on here on Surly. We don't care and find it funny that the CFB community thinks we care.

There are people on this board who absolutely care.