Realignment talk not going away

[gatormarc 937]

11 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Wow. But who would they pay?   The new acc schools?  😂

The GoR deal is with ESPN so nothing really changes. And there is no "buying out" like the conference exit fee. 

Any money paid would be part of some sort of negotiation with the network to recover those rights.

[bullet 1630]

10 hours ago, Welshy said:

That's the funniest shit I've ever seen. Cal cares less about its students than Stanford...and that's a lot less than atm, bamer or WVU does. This is one of, and not the only reason why, AAU sucks. These schools operate in very rarified research circles. They are not good educators. The 30-100 thousand students who attend and spend massive amounts of money at these schools are generally taught by student teachers, then by junior, non tenured professors. Think I'm wrong? Do you think those professors getting 10s of millions or 100s of millions of dollars for research are teaching 1 or 2 or 3k classes?

They are not. 

Generally speaking, what the top 50 schools in the country consider education is exactly NOT education. It's a scam. And they know it. And don't care. 

Cry me a river, Cal. Manage your goddamn bills. 

Don't speak for UT.

[Surly Bevo 25743]

32 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Florida State, Clemson, UNC, Virgina or VaTech, Notre Dame

5 Teams the SEC Could Add in Expansion to Counter Oregon and Washington Joining Big Ten

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/5-teams-the-sec-could-add-in-expansion-to-counter-oregon-and-washington-joining-big-ten/ar-AA1eO8MO

I think if they really want to go Super League B1G takes ND and one of either UNC, Virginia or VaTech and SEC takes the others.   It's also good political proofing.  The state of NY isn't really super involved in football but otherwise the B1G and SEC would have 1, if not 2 schools in pretty much every big state in in the U.S.  Besides the aforementioned NY the only top 25 pop size states that wouldn't be represented in those two conferences would be Arizona, Mass and Colorado.

Makes it more politically blurry for Congress to grandstand and poke around in your Dr Evil plans.  

Edited August 5, 2023 by Surly Bevo

[BurntOrange&White 41863]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

I think if they really want to go Super League B1G takes ND and one of either UNC, Virginia or VaTech and SEC takes the others.   It's also good political proofing.  The state of NY isn't really super involved in football but otherwise the B1G and SEC would have 1, if not 2 schools in pretty much every big state in in the U.S.  Besides the aforementioned NY the only top 25 pop size states that wouldn't be represented in those two conferences would be Arizona, Mass and Colorado.

Makes it more politically blurry for Congress to grandstand and poke around in your Dr Evil plans.  

IMO B1G taking Washington/Oregon sets up SEC better to sneak in and potentially grab a Notre Dame. I think with the coming new leadership at Notre Dame from AD to president give their old president/AD are like 80s+ we'll see a shift in their thought process. From a recruiting standpoint being in the SEC is better for ND.

[Pancho 46309]

10 hours ago, Welshy said:

That's the funniest shit I've ever seen. Cal cares less about its students than Stanford...and that's a lot less than atm, bamer or WVU does. This is one of, and not the only reason why, AAU sucks. These schools operate in very rarified research circles. They are not good educators. The 30-100 thousand students who attend and spend massive amounts of money at these schools are generally taught by student teachers, then by junior, non tenured professors. Think I'm wrong? Do you think those professors getting 10s of millions or 100s of millions of dollars for research are teaching 1 or 2 or 3k classes?

They are not. 

Generally speaking, what the top 50 schools in the country consider education is exactly NOT education. It's a scam. And they know it. And don't care. 

Cry me a river, Cal. Manage your goddamn bills. 

This is one of the dumbest, most uneducated posts in this thread.

[billfromlaketravis 11823]

Utah-BYU instantly becomes the Big 12’s best rivalry. The hate is very real there.

I think Utah is going to be a problem in the Big 12 as long as Whittington is the HC. UT should closely monitor Utah’s offers in Texas. They evaluate really well. 

[Francisco 2.0 32591]

So, Cal's athletic debt is well known.  But what about SDSU and ASU?  

 

 

 

[LTtxfan 50005]

5 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I think Utah is going to be a problem in the Big 12 as long as Whittington is the HC. UT should closely monitor Utah’s offers in Texas. They evaluate really well. 

Since 2021, there has been speculation that Kyle Whittingham may retire in the next few years at Utah.  Wonder if this is his final year?

Interesting tidbit:  "Whittingham maintains a retirement clause in the amended contract that makes him a "special assistant" should he retire at any point during the life of the contract."

[Hurtlocker 2219]

9 hours ago, elfenix said:

Anyone have a list of how much money the schools are making in the new conferences?

USC/UCLA got full B1G payout because they came in during the contract negotiations.

All of the B12 adds got full in with increases from FOX/ESPN, so around $32.   

Oregon/Washington make $30m, with $1m/year increases until the next contract when they'll be full payout.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

2 hours ago, gatormarc said:

I'm not sure the B1G knows what it wants and hasn't for awhile.

They're so focused on making more money than the SEC, hoping that that will solve the problem that they keep adding side hustles.

 

 

[Hurtlocker 2219]

56 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Florida State, Clemson, UNC, Virgina or VaTech, Notre Dame

5 Teams the SEC Could Add in Expansion to Counter Oregon and Washington Joining Big Ten

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/5-teams-the-sec-could-add-in-expansion-to-counter-oregon-and-washington-joining-big-ten/ar-AA1eO8MO

Not sure why the SEC has to counter Oregon and Washington.    USC was added to counter the SEC's move.    If I were the SEC I'd just sit back and say "scoreboard"

[nunna yo bizness 1690]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

I actually agree with Bilas and his take on realignment. Its insane these colleges are bitching and moaning about transfer portal and NIL while they are simultaneously portalling for cash.

I can't agree with him, albeit only because he's a smug insuferable twat.

[bullet 1630]

10 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Cal and Stanford probably aren't even in the ballpark of the rest of the PAC schools when it comes to crop judging. Just worthless academically...

Maybe they are a little on the spectrum.

['stache 22141]

2 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Not sure why the SEC has to counter Oregon and Washington.    USC was added to counter the SEC's move.    If I were the SEC I'd just sit back and say "scoreboard"

They don’t need to do anything, but if FSU and Clemson can get got, it makes sense.

[Chopper 17432]

1 minute ago, Hurtlocker said:

 

Stewy Mandel said the same but only with an angrier tone on his podcast. His podcast partner is Bruce Feldman, Fox employee, so Mandel said something along the lines of, "You can't say anything about this because of who you work for but when the history of the collapse of the PacXXX is written, one particular network will be shown to have been the driving force behind much of it.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

27 minutes ago, gatormarc said:

The GoR deal is with ESPN so nothing really changes. And there is no "buying out" like the conference exit fee. 

Any money paid would be part of some sort of negotiation with the network to recover those rights.

Technically, the ACC owns the GoR agreement with the schools and ESPN pays the ACC for the right to broadcast their games.    If FSU moved to the SEC, ESPN can't air them, even though they hold a broadcast agreement with both, unless the ACC approves that use of their rights.

Some negotiation or "make right" would need to occur, because the ACC will lose value with FSU gone, as will ESPN, since their contracts and the agreement to build the ACC network was with FSU involved.   

If FSU left next year, they'd owe a buyout (which in the ACC is 3 years of revenue) then ESPN would trigger a composition clause, informing the ACC that their revenue will decrease by $X.   Then the ACC would look to FSU and say, "There's your number.   We'll hand you back your rights once we're all even"

It took the B12 a year or so to figure out a solution and that was in the last year of the GoR, i still struggle to see how this will be an easy move for FSU.

[billfromlaketravis 11823]

10 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

 

 

My theory is FOX ran some models, and they concluded that making Oregon/Washington wander in the desert for 8 years would diminish their brands. Might as well add them now as junior members while their stock is high. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[Hurtlocker 2219]

23 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, Cal's athletic debt is well known.  But what about SDSU and ASU?  

 

 

 

SDSU just built a new stadium, not sure what ASU's is for.

[Dr Fear 1290]

SDSU just built a new stadium, not sure what ASU's is for.

2015-2019 stadium renovation.

https://westerntrib.com/examining-the-arizona-state-university-athletic-departments-financial-situation/

[Hurtlocker 2219]

2 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

My theory is FOX ran some models, and they concluded that making Oregon/Washington wander in the desert for 8 would diminish their brands. Might as well add them now as junior members while their stock is high. 

Basically came down to $4.5m per game.   Guessing we'll see late night games on peacock or FS1 to pay for them.

[bullet 1630]

8 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Stewy Mandel said the same but only with an angrier tone on his podcast. His podcast partner is Bruce Feldman, Fox employee, so Mandel said something along the lines of, "You can't say anything about this because of who you work for but when the history of the collapse of the PacXXX is written, one particular network will be shown to have been the driving force behind much of it.

Mandel has been almost as bad as Canzano spreading Kliavcoff's bs propaganda the last few months.  He's mad because he's been proven an idiot.  He also brought Auerbach along with him yesterday and made the Athletic look bad.

[gatormarc 937]

7 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Technically, the ACC owns the GoR agreement with the schools and ESPN pays the ACC for the right to broadcast their games.    If FSU moved to the SEC, ESPN can't air them, even though they hold a broadcast agreement with both, unless the ACC approves that use of their rights.

Some negotiation or "make right" would need to occur, because the ACC will lose value with FSU gone, as will ESPN, since their contracts and the agreement to build the ACC network was with FSU involved.   

If FSU left next year, they'd owe a buyout (which in the ACC is 3 years of revenue) then ESPN would trigger a composition clause, informing the ACC that their revenue will decrease by $X.   Then the ACC would look to FSU and say, "There's your number.   We'll hand you back your rights once we're all even"

It took the B12 a year or so to figure out a solution and that was in the last year of the GoR, i still struggle to see how this will be an easy move for FSU.

We were talking an instance where the ACC ceased to exist. That doesn't end the GoR.

[Francisco 2.0 32591]

5 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

 i still struggle to see how this will be an easy move for FSU.

 

It's because you don't think like a message board user named tomahawkchop69420 or their BOR.  8D chess is being played by these fine people.

Come to think of it, the FSU board of regents all seem like they are message board folk, with their lofty goals and aspirations and proclamations on how this is gonna go.

 

 

[billfromlaketravis 11823]

1 minute ago, Hurtlocker said:

Basically came down to $4.5m per game.   Guessing we'll see late night games on peacock or FS1 to pay for them.

I'm here for it. 

[LTbear 4213]

11 hours ago, Welshy said:

That's the funniest shit I've ever seen. Cal cares less about its students than Stanford...and that's a lot less than atm, bamer or WVU does.

Oh what BS. I have three degrees, have taught at 5 different universities, and also did a two year fellowship at Stanford. Cal had the best/ most invested professors I've ever seen. How they did all the research while teaching at such a level is beyond me. 

[closetojumping 65424]

17 hours ago, Rimbo said:

coach disapproves of your comment

Hence the term “mediocre irrelevance” versus “butthole trash”. They’ve had some decent periods with good coaches, but they’ve overall been a team that good teams could count on as a W on their schedule. 

16 hours ago, bullet said:

Stanford, probably because of academic standards, is always up and down.

Records:

1990s 60-54-2

2000s 47-69

2010s 98-35

Now do every other decade. 

14 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

So next year…

B1G: 18
SEC: 16
B12: 16
ACC: 14+ND nonfb
PAC: 4
MWC: 11+Hawaii fb
AAC: 14 (Navy fb & Wichita St nonfb)
SBC: 14
MAC: 12
CUSA: 10
Ind: 4 (ND, Army, UConn, UMass)

The Big 12 would be smart to ditch the UConn silliness and add Gonzaga and Wichita State for non-football. That would be the elite basketball conference and a damned good baseball conference.

3 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Confederate realignment talk not going away?

Maryland feels pretty awkward looking at this graphic. 

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Jason Scheer 

Arizona has officially been added to the Big 12 for 2024-2025 and the Pac-12 is officially dead

That dude crushed the entire saga and should be dunking constantly on Canzano and the others every time they tweet anything. Just throw old takes at them in reply over and over. I know he did his own thread the other day, but he should do one every other day for the rest of the year. 

[LTtxfan 50005]

6 minutes ago, bullet said:

Mandel has been almost as bad as Canzano spreading Kliavcoff's bs propaganda the last few months.  He's mad because he's been proven an idiot.  He also brought Auerbach along with him yesterday and made the Athletic look bad.

Yeah, Canzano was trying to save his PAC12 gig.  Mandel is just worthless...  

[Hurtlocker 2219]

5 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Oh what BS. I have three degrees, have taught at 5 different universities, and also did a two year fellowship at Stanford. Cal had the best/ most invested professors I've ever seen. How they did all the research while teaching at such a level is beyond me. 

[LTbear 4213]

Just now, Hurtlocker said:

I don't intend it that way. Just pointing out I'm speaking from experience, not drawing conclusions from afar. 

[Chopper 17432]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They don’t need to do anything, but if FSU and Clemson can get got, it makes sense.

Problem is it takes 6 schools to agree to vote as a bloc to break the GOR and there's no way the SEC would agree to add that many, when they'd likely just want to add 1 or 3, plus ND.

When you look back on the PacXXX and all of their unforced errors over just the past 2 years, it's really amazing.

-turned up their nose at a merger proposal by B12's douchebag commissioner Goolsby

-said nope to 6 guaranteed playoff spots for the P5

-said nope to selling their streaming network to espn, which would have brought more money but also forced UCLA and USC to stay in the conference

-said nope to taking the 4 best schools left in the B12 following the departure of TX and Ousux.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11823]

How are the PAC apologists doing this morning? Honestly, this an improvement. 

Would you rather watch Wisconsin v Oregon at 930 or Washington State v Oregon at 930?

 

[BurntOrange&White 41863]

9 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Hence the term “mediocre irrelevance” versus “butthole trash”. They’ve had some decent periods with good coaches, but they’ve overall been a team that good teams could count on as a W on their schedule. 

Now do every other decade. 

The Big 12 would be smart to ditch the UConn silliness and add Gonzaga and Wichita State for non-football. That would be the elite basketball conference and a damned good baseball conference.

Maryland feels pretty awkward looking at this graphic. 

That dude crushed the entire saga and should be dunking constantly on Canzano and the others every time they tweet anything. Just throw old takes at them in reply over and over. I know he did his own thread the other day, but he should do one every other day for the rest of the year. 

He has been constantly dunking on Canzano and others....and it was a fantastic twitter thread of receipts. See below the timestamped video of him talking about Canzano and Wilner:

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Hurtlocker 2219]

3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Problem is it takes 6 schools to agree to vote as a bloc to break the GOR and there's no way the SEC would agree to add that many, when they'd likely just want to add 1 or 3, plus ND.

 

 

They don't have to.    Pretty sure the Big 12 would be happy to take Pitt, VTech, and some combo of Louisville/NCState/Duke, while the B1G grabs UNC/UVA

[Chopper 17432]

12 minutes ago, bullet said:

Mandel has been almost as bad as Canzano spreading Kliavcoff's bs propaganda the last few months.  He's mad because he's been proven an idiot.  He also brought Auerbach along with him yesterday and made the Athletic look bad.

Mandel has his own reasons for his pac bias. He lives in the LA area and a ton of his sources are pac-related. He's also far from the only nationally prominent sports reporter with the same pac bias. For example, Pat Forde's daughter goes to tree. Dan Wetzel has also reported with pac-tinted glasses on. There's a long list.

[BachelorTrek 3320]

29 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

SDSU just built a new stadium, not sure what ASU's is for.

Reduced seats in their stadium, added suites/club level-type stuff.

Edited August 5, 2023 by BachelorTrek

[BurntOrange&White 41863]

The most legendary thing is the Oregon BoR chair or whatever his title is doing the PAC meeting yesterday morning from the golf course and informing them they're taking B1G invite.

Edited August 5, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[gatormarc 937]

49 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

So, Cal's athletic debt is well known.  But what about SDSU and ASU?  

 

 

 

Do you have a link for this? 

1) Curious as to how Rutgers isn't on there as they've borrowed like $250M.

2) Curious to where UF is on the list. We've just built a new baseball stadium and football facilities, so I assumed some of it went to debt and not all donations.

[closetojumping 65424]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The most legendary thing is the Oregon BoR chair or whatever his title is doing the PAC meeting yesterday morning from the golf course and informing them they're taking B1G invite.

Wait, what? Is that true? I don’t think I saw this. 

[BurntOrange&White 41863]

 

5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Wait, what? Is that true? I don’t think I saw this. 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/08/oregon-board-of-trustees-chair-realignment-meeting-golf-course

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Hurtlocker 2219]

1 minute ago, gatormarc said:

Do you have a link for this? 

1) Curious as to how Rutgers isn't on there as they've borrowed like $250M.

2) Curious to where UF is on the list. We've just built a new baseball stadium and football facilities, so I assumed some of it went to debt and not all donations.

its from Sportico's database

[Chopper 17432]

I've heard no conference wants to go past 18 teams due to scheduling problems. Don't know how true it is.

I've also heard that when a west coast team is scheduled to play Penn St, they'll have a 3 hour bus ride to/from Pittsburgh just to get to an airport that has a landing strip long enough to handle planes that can fly non-stop from/to the west coast and PA. University Park can only accommodate regional jets.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

16 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

They don't have to.    Pretty sure the Big 12 would be happy to take Pitt, VTech, and some combo of Louisville/NCState/Duke, while the B1G grabs UNC/UVA

As a Big 12 fan, my priority is NC State, Duke, Louisville, and then either VA Tech or Pitt. 

[locodos 5591]

45 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They don’t need to do anything, but if FSU UNC and UVA Clemson can get got, it makes sense.

fify

[gatormarc 937]

13 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

its from Sportico's database

Thanks. Looks like they don't have Florida's 2021-22 data yet so that's why they don't show up.

Previous year, UF was #21 with $164M.

Rutgers must be doing some funny math or some of their funding sources don't count (like borrowing from the B1G's future distributions?) because they are only showing $56M which isn't close to being right.

https://www.northjersey.com/in-depth/news/watchdog/2021/09/04/rutgers-athletics-265-m-in-debt-borrows-to-keep-pace-in-big-ten/8047865002/

Edited August 5, 2023 by gatormarc

[LTbear 4213]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

As a Big 12 fan, my priority is NC State, Duke, Louisville, and then either VA Tech or Pitt. 

I feel like Louisville and Pitt are very realistic/ neither is valuable enough to the B1G or SEC. Getting NC State or Va Tech would be awesome. If Duke, good lord what a basketball league. 

[gatormarc 937]

9 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I've heard no conference wants to go past 18 teams due to scheduling problems. Don't know how true it is.

I've also heard that when a west coast team is scheduled to play Penn St, they'll have a 3 hour bus ride to/from Pittsburgh just to get to an airport that has a landing strip long enough to handle planes that can fly non-stop from/to the west coast and PA. University Park can only accommodate regional jets.

Depends on if you want to play everyone in your conference frequently or not.

My guess would be that they would change planes at some point into smaller jets for the last leg vs a long bus ride.

[LTtxfan 50005]

23 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

They don't have to.    Pretty sure the Big 12 would be happy to take Pitt, VTech, and some combo of Louisville/NCState/Duke, while the B1G grabs UNC/UVA

Duke and Louisville have great basketball histories.  And if their football turns it around, Louisville makes a lot of sense for the B12 plus cardinal baseball is also pretty good.

[Francisco 2.0 32591]

22 minutes ago, gatormarc said:

Do you have a link for this? 

 

https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

[locodos 5591]

20 minutes ago, gatormarc said:

2) Curious to where UF is on the list. We've just built a new baseball stadium and football facilities, so I assumed some of it went to debt and not all donations.

Foley didn't spend like a drunken sailor..  Yes our facilities have been lagging but he kept the athletic dept in great fiscal shape.

The new AD is planning a majorly pricey reno on the Swamp.  And yes, they'll probably fuck it up.

[statsman 5693]

It’s crazy. When Texas and OU left, the Big 12 held together for one reason- no other power conference wanted any of the eight remaining members. That has been their strength, their super power.
 
Then, they locked down a media contract early, and when the PAC’s turn came, there were few slots that had to be filled, and no money.