Realignment talk not going away

[BurntOrange&White 42008]

8 hours ago, camel at sea said:

SMU donors are willing to pay for facilities upgrades as well as foot the bill for an AD that won't get media revenue for as long as seven years?  On top of that, they'll fund an NIL operation competitive enough to win games in a power conference?  I guess you do what you gotta do to get your foot in the door but that's an enormous buy-in.  

Assuming they do get in, though, the ACC will have three outliers in Big 12 territory (SMU, Stanford, Cal), and vice versa (WVU, Cincy, UCF.)  Maybe at some point the two conferences swap.   

 

This appears to be the minimum per year they'd have to give, correct? 

So lets just round it up to 70 million per year for 7 and you're looking at 490 million dollars from donors and that doesn't include NIL to keep you competitive. So lets just say half a billion is being asked to donors. Throw in an estimated 18 million AAC buyout which is what Cincy and Houston paid. 

Even if it is half that, it is still a ton of money to ask of booster. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[LTbear 4218]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

Before TCU joined the B12, their university endowments were roughly equal at $1B. Now, TCU’s is $2.4B 

Suggesting this is correlated to the Big XII is stupid. Any decently run university will see their endowment grow at a good clip. In the same timeframe, Baylor's grew from 870 million to a little over 2 billion. Hell the AVERAGE growth among R1 schools just in fiscal 2021 was over 30%. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by LTbear

[derpyhorndog 2703]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

This appears to be the minimum per year they'd have to give, correct? 

So lets just round it up to 70 million per year for 7 and you're looking at 490 million dollars from donors and that doesn't include NIL to keep you competitive. So lets just say half a billion is being asked to donors. 

For reference Big 12 got the 4 corner schools for 3/4 of a billion. 

That's a tall ask 
 

The rumor is SMU would be foregoing only broadcast/media revenue for the first seven years, not all conference distributions.

As in they would still receive any ACC distributions for post-season play (CFP, NY6 bowls, March Madness, etc.), which should offset a large chunk, if not all, of the ~$8MM/year in American distributions they would be leaving behind. Then they would stand to get the ~$40MM/year in media distros from the ACC starting year eight. 

Factor in incremental revenue from things like higher ticket prices and concession sales, increased donor support and boosts to some of the "soft" value items like academic and athletic prestige and general brand recognition along with the incident recruiting benefits for both athletes and ordinary students.

Overall a great deal for them to get a seat at the big boys' table, IMO. 

[BurntOrange&White 42008]

Just now, derpyhorndog said:

The rumor is SMU would be foregoing only broadcast/media revenue for the first seven years, not all conference distributions.

As in they would still receive any ACC distributions for post-season play (CFP, NY6 bowls, March Madness, etc.), which should offset a large chunk, if not all, of the ~$8MM/year in American distributions they would be leaving behind. Then they would stand to get the ~$40MM/year in media distros from the ACC starting year eight. 

Factor in incremental revenue from things like higher ticket prices and concession sales, increased donor support and boosts to some of the "soft" value items like academic and athletic prestige and general brand recognition along with the incident recruiting benefits for both athletes and ordinary students.

Overall a great deal for them to get a seat at the big boys' table, IMO. 

Gotcha, that's such a huge gamble because by year 6-7 you could be up shit creek without a paddle if more realignment happens.

[derpyhorndog 2703]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Gotcha, that's such a huge gamble because by year 6-7 you could be up shit creek without a paddle if more realignment happens.

Yeah for sure, definitely a gamble. One they would presumably only take if they were confident that the ACC would stay intact until the GOR expires in 2036, helped largely by the estimated $55MM in concessions by SMU, Cal and Stanford and the ACC's new revenue distro model that should disproportionately benefit the FSU and Clemson malcontents.

If it plays out that way (to your point, that's a big "if"), think it would shake out to where SMU would have left behind ~$56MM in aggregate American distributions ($8MM * seven years) but received ~$200MM in ACC distributions ($40MM * five years) by GOR expiration. Even just two years of ACC media distros would put SMU in the green. 

[BurntOrange&White 42008]

Just now, derpyhorndog said:

Yeah for sure, definitely a gamble. One they would presumably only take if they were confident that the ACC would stay intact until the GOR expires in 2036, helped largely by the estimated $55MM in concessions by SMU, Cal and Stanford and the ACC's new revenue distro model that should disproportionately benefit the FSU and Clemson malcontents.

If it plays out that way (to your point, that's a big "if"), think it would shake out to where SMU would have left behind ~$56MM in aggregate American distributions ($8MM * seven years) but received ~$200MM in ACC distributions ($40MM * five years) by GOR expiration. Even just two years of ACC media distros would put SMU in the green. 

Cal is way more fucked than SMU or Stanford. The academic side assumed 54% of their athletic debt so instead of operating at 80% budget they can now operate at 90% but they have to balance a budget and there were terms agreed upon between the AD and UC academics. Taking no payment for so many years for them will only reduce that operating budget even more since they won't have the PAC revenue coming in that kept them afloat essentially.

[BigHornedLurker 2182]

5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Cal is way more fucked than SMU or Stanford. The academic side assumed 54% of their athletic debt so instead of operating at 80% budget they can now operate at 90% but they have to balance a budget and there were terms agreed upon between the AD and UC academics. Taking no payment for so many years for them will only reduce that operating budget even more since they won't have the PAC revenue coming in that kept them afloat essentially.

Queuing a bunch of academics patting themselves on the back for saying football was a bad move 

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

28 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Gotcha, that's such a huge gamble because by year 6-7 you could be up shit creek without a paddle if more realignment happens.

Not any worse than they already are.

If the ACC gets poached by the SEC and Big 10, SMU could have used this raised profile to jump some of the other ACC schools in terms of Big 12 interest.  I think it's unlikely, but it's not like they have anything to lose as it is.

[BurntOrange&White 42008]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Not any worse than they already are.

If the ACC gets poached by the SEC and Big 10, SMU could have used this raised profile to jump some of the other ACC schools in terms of Big 12 interest.  I think it's unlikely, but it's not like they have anything to lose as it is.

I don't think going there and getting dicked down worse than they already do raises the profile. 

[statsman 5698]

44 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Suggesting this is correlated to the Big XII is stupid. Any decently run university will see their endowment grow at a good clip. In the same timeframe, Baylor's grew from 870 million to a little over 2 billion. Hell the AVERAGE growth among R1 schools just in fiscal 2021 was over 30%. 

So, you’re arguing that Baylor’s endowment increase of 130% is evidence that TCU’s endowment increase of 125% over the same time period of B12 membership (while SMU’s endowment increased “only” 90%) has nothing to do with big time football participation. Three private universities, all within 100 miles of each other. Two increased dramatically more than the other. What could be driving donations?🤔

Edited August 24, 2023 by statsman

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I don't think going there and getting dicked down worse than they already do raises the profile. 

They have to try something.  If it fails, they're in the same spot they're in now.  They truly have nothing to lose.

I don't think this will be successful, but it makes complete sense to me that SMU would attempt this.

[BurntOrange&White 42008]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

They have to try something.  If it fails, they're in the same spot they're in now.  They truly have nothing to lose.

I don't think this will be successful, but it makes complete sense to me that SMU would attempt this.

Maybe try building your brand back up by winning in the current conference you're in. That method has worked for both TCU and Cincy....Organically do it....don't just try to buy some surface level BS that won't work.

Edited August 24, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[bejezuz 329]

20 minutes ago, statsman said:

So, you’re arguing that Baylor’s endowment increase of 130% is evidence that TCU’s endowment increase of 125% over the same time period of B12 membership (while SMU’s endowment increased “only” 90%) has nothing to do with big time football participation. Three private universities, all within 100 miles of each other. Two increased dramatically more than the other. What could be driving donations?🤔

You're forgetting the charming metropolis that is Waco, Texas.  

[CustersDoctor 585]

In 1991 Tech traveled to SMU to play the ponies at Ford Field. At the pre-game press conference Spike Dykes was asked. "Did you hear SMU added 2,000 seats to Ford Field?" Spike replied, "WHY?"

So when I see the renderings of a Ford Field expansion I hear Spike Dykes saying, "WHY?"

[mdmost 44110]

 

[LTbear 4218]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

 What could be driving donations?🤔

Are you literally asking what else could drive up endowments of major universities? Even though I already told you the endowment increase of those two universities is nothing out of the norm for well managed university endowments? Do you understand university financials and all that goes into them at all? 

[DanTheHorn 5092]

9 hours ago, bullet said:

There was a time when they were called the best professional football team in Dallas (yes the Cowboys had a streak where they were pretty bad).

You mean like 25+ years?

[CustersDoctor 585]

52 minutes ago, mdmost said:

 

I love historical reminders like this. Here's a little timeline.

July 21,2021 UT & OU announce that they are joining the SEC. The SEC will now have 16 teams.

July 21st-Sept 10th. The remaining Eight B12 schools are in full blown panic. They are all worried that the PAC12 will add the four best remaining Eight and that their school might not make the cut.

August 24th, 2021. The ACC, B1G & ACC try to counter the SEC coup with a piece of paper that loosely defines the meaningless alliance. It appeared stupid and meaningless at the time and it still appears that way. The Alliance may have eased the PAC12's mind for expansion. The PAC12 was convinced that they were super stable and were locked in as one of the top four conferences and that the BIG12 was on the outside looking in.

September 10th, 2021. The Big12 Adds Cincy, BYU, UCF & UH. The BIG12 is stabilized and united. Meanwhile, behind the scenes the B1G wants to get to 16 teams just like the SEC.  They begin back channel negotiations with USC/UO&ULCA. The Alliance will go down in the football realignment history books as the PAC12'S Neville Chamberlain moment.

[redswingline 1124]

4 hours ago, statsman said:

SMU knows what it’s doing. Before TCU joined the B12, their university endowments were roughly equal at $1B. Now, TCU’s is $2.4B and SMU’s is $1.9B. SMU wants some of that sweet donor money that comes in with major college football (and doesn’t with G5 football, evidently).

My personal endowment (401) has gone up 100% the past few years. I'm sure it's not related to the +$1trillion in money the government printed, but my eye for football.

[gatormarc 938]

18 minutes ago, CustersDoctor said:

I love historical reminders like this. Here's a little timeline.

Don't forget one of the primary reasons for the Alliance was to block playoff expansion.

They then reversed course after adding USCLA and signed everyone on to the exact same playoff plan a year later.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

17 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

32,000 capacity at Ford Stadium

So would ponies in ACC start playing more games at the Cotton Bowl ??  

That's about as many who go to most ACC games.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

11 hours ago, bullet said:

ACC will feel right at home.  Just like Wake Forest and Duke.  And empty like BC.  SMU will not trail the league in attendance.

damnit, that's what I get for playing catch up.  

[Hurtlocker 2219]

2 hours ago, bejezuz said:

You're forgetting the charming metropolis that is Waco, Texas.  

Someone needs to teach her how to make a fist

[gatormarc 938]

11 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Someone needs to teach her how to make a fist

Don't kink shame. Maybe that's how he likes it.

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, CustersDoctor said:

August 24th, 2021. The ACC, B1G & ACC try to counter the SEC coup with a piece of paper that loosely defines the meaningless alliance. 

You're giving Klownkoff and Phillips too much credit.  There was no piece of paper.  

"There is no contract.  We shook hands as gentlemen and looked each other in the eye."🤣

 

 

[gatormarc 938]

19 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

1 hour ago, CustersDoctor said:

August 24th, 2021. The ACC, B1G & ACC try to counter the SEC coup with a piece of paper that loosely defines the meaningless alliance. 

You're giving Klownkoff and Phillips too much credit.  There was no piece of paper.  

"There is no contract.  We shook hands as gentlemen and looked each other in the eye."🤣

“Even though I’m a lawyer, one of my favorite law professors at Notre Dame said, ‘If you have to go back and look at a contract you signed, you probably entered into a deal with the wrong parties,” Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren said. 

[USC Traveler 488]

Looks like Stanford and Cal have learned nothing in realignment.  They seem to think nothing will change.

They thought the PAC (and media money) would always be there because they never thought USC would leave.

Now they're going to go ACC with a 30% share than won't reach 100% until 2036.  

What's going to happen when FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, etc all leave ?  

FSU people like Bud Elliot think FSU is leaving next year.  If not next year, the closer it gets to 2036, the more likely the exodus becomes.

Once the BIG and SEC take the top ACC teams, ESPN will likely push the 2nd tier teams like UL, Pitt, etc to the B12 and let the conference dissolve completely.  At the very least,  ESPN will use the composition clause (standard in conference tv deals) to drastically reduce payments to the ACC.

Stanford and Cal are going to take $7-10m/yr to start, and there's a great chance the conference dissolves or gets hammered way down on revenue long before the Bay area schools start getting any real money.

They are setting themselves up for absolute disaster- Cal especially, given their finances and lack of ND connection/hope for BIG.

They would have been much better to get over their coastal elitism, academic snobbery and religious bigotry to try to be part of a BIG 18.

I guess being in a pod with BYU and playing teams in OK, KS, WV, etc was too much for them.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by USC Traveler

[notre dame joe 205]

1 hour ago, CustersDoctor said:

I love historical reminders like this. Here's a little timeline.

 

September 10th, 2021. The Big12 Adds Cincy, BYU, UCF & UH. The BIG12 is stabilized and united. Meanwhile, behind the scenes the B1G wants to get to 16 teams just like the SEC.  They begin back channel negotiations with USC/UO&ULCA. The Alliance will go down in the football realignment history books as the PAC12'S Neville Chamberlain moment.

Where did you get that day as the beginning of the UCLA treachery?  For it to be leaked so soon it was likely being plotted before there was a rebel alliance.

[Lou_Sassle 2995]

1 hour ago, Hurtlocker said:

Someone needs to teach her how to make a fist

@futureman

[bullet 1631]

16 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

Looks like Stanford and Cal have learned nothing in realignment.  They seem to think nothing will change.

They thought the PAC (and media money) would always be there because they never thought USC would leave.

Now they're going to go ACC with a 30% share than won't reach 100% until 2036.  

What's going to happen when FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, etc all leave ?  

FSU people like Bud Elliot think FSU is leaving next year.  If not next year, the closer it gets to 2036, the more likely the exodus becomes.

Once the BIG and SEC take the top ACC teams, ESPN will likely push the 2nd tier teams like UL, Pitt, etc to the B12 and let the conference dissolve completely.  At the very least,  ESPN will use the composition clause (standard in conference tv deals) to drastically reduce payments to the ACC.

Stanford and Cal are going to take $7-10m/yr to start, and there's a great chance the conference dissolves or gets hammered way down on revenue long before the Bay area schools start getting any real money.

They are setting themselves up for absolute disaster- Cal especially, given their finances and lack of ND connection/hope for BIG.

They would have been much better to get over their coastal elitism, academic snobbery and religious bigotry to try to be part of a BIG 18.

I guess being in a pod with BYU and playing teams in OK, KS, WV, etc was too much for them.

 

That's $7-$10 million TV money which as good as they could do in Pac -8 + X.  And they will get a share of other distributions which will be better in the ACC.

[bullet 1631]

They would be better off begging BY and ESPN to let them in the Big 12.  But I don't think their ego will allow that.  And maybe ESPN and Fox don't want them dragging down the Big 12.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2901]

3 minutes ago, bullet said:

But I don't think their ego will allow that.

Um, they have been begging for a couple of weeks now.  They may be trying to structure a clever deal but I think the ego has been put aside until they get a deal done.

[SimonBolivar 11068]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

 Three private universities, all within 100 miles of each other. Two increased dramatically more than the other. What could be driving donations?🤔

Yeah, but that doesn't mean all things are equal between the schools. Undergrads are more likely to give to their schools than grad students so when you compare that number you see that Baylor has 15,000 undergrads, TCU has 10,500, and SMU with 6,800 aren't all that similar to each other. Per student, SMU blows BU and TCU out of the water with giving. You also have to focus on who is going to these schools too and while they do compete with each other for rich white Texans, SMU does not have the same football watching student base that you usually see at BU and TCU with so many of their students being from out of state.

 

As a CFB fan though I'd be excited to see SMU bankroll themselves into the ACC and hopefully form a great three rivalry with BU, TCU, and SMU in the future.

Edited August 24, 2023 by SimonBolivar

[bullet 1631]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/sports-world-reacts-to-stunning-acc-realignment/ar-AA1fGNYr

This article from this morning quoting a San Francisco reporter claims SMUCalFord to the A&P conference is a done deal.  Just doing the paperwork.  I don't consider this authoritative, but its the first one I've seen saying it is definitely happening.

[Texas Wahoo 3631]

48 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

Looks like Stanford and Cal have learned nothing in realignment.  They seem to think nothing will change.

They thought the PAC (and media money) would always be there because they never thought USC would leave.

Now they're going to go ACC with a 30% share than won't reach 100% until 2036.  

What's going to happen when FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, etc all leave ?  

FSU people like Bud Elliot think FSU is leaving next year.  If not next year, the closer it gets to 2036, the more likely the exodus becomes.

Maybe that's the plan - join now so they get a 100% share of that billion dollars that FSU/Clemson are going to pay to get out of the GOR.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Texas Wahoo

[Zhorn96 1836]

50 minutes ago, USC Traveler said:

Looks like Stanford and Cal have learned nothing in realignment.  They seem to think nothing will change.

They thought the PAC (and media money) would always be there because they never thought USC would leave.

Now they're going to go ACC with a 30% share than won't reach 100% until 2036.  

What's going to happen when FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, etc all leave ?  

FSU people like Bud Elliot think FSU is leaving next year.  If not next year, the closer it gets to 2036, the more likely the exodus becomes.

Once the BIG and SEC take the top ACC teams, ESPN will likely push the 2nd tier teams like UL, Pitt, etc to the B12 and let the conference dissolve completely.  At the very least,  ESPN will use the composition clause (standard in conference tv deals) to drastically reduce payments to the ACC.

Stanford and Cal are going to take $7-10m/yr to start, and there's a great chance the conference dissolves or gets hammered way down on revenue long before the Bay area schools start getting any real money.

They are setting themselves up for absolute disaster- Cal especially, given their finances and lack of ND connection/hope for BIG.

They would have been much better to get over their coastal elitism, academic snobbery and religious bigotry to try to be part of a BIG 18.

I guess being in a pod with BYU and playing teams in OK, KS, WV, etc was too much for them.

 

meh, I think everyone recognizes that 2036 is irrelevant at this point.  By 2030 all of this will be going on again and things will settle out.  Cal and Furd have zero shot at staying with the cool kids if they don't do this.  ACC gives them a 5-10% chance if they get their shit together and lean into their donor pool (a big ask and believe it when you see it).  Cal will get UCLA couch change money for at least a little while which will make up some of the gap but their leadership fucked them into this corner

[camel at sea 589]

58 minutes ago, bullet said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/sports-world-reacts-to-stunning-acc-realignment/ar-AA1fGNYr

This article from this morning quoting a San Francisco reporter claims SMUCalFord to the A&P conference is a done deal.  Just doing the paperwork.  I don't consider this authoritative, but its the first one I've seen saying it is definitely happening.

That would put them at 17 and a half members. They could probably now get poached by the other three major conferences and survive it, especially when you see that they could also still add UConn, Tulane, USF, etc. to fill in some gaps.  In the interim, maybe this generates some extra cash to keep FSU and Clemson quiet for a few years.  If you're Wake, Cuse, BC, this is a big win.  You get to avoid being Washington State and Oregon State.   

[TKthunder2 5060]

ACC in 2031: Stanford, Cal, SMU, Wake, Duke, Syracuse, Boston College, Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, Boston U, and Emory

[66BUFF 2608]

4 hours ago, CustersDoctor said:

I love historical reminders like this. Here's a little timeline.

July 21,2021 UT & OU announce that they are joining the SEC. The SEC will now have 16 teams.

July 21st-Sept 10th. The remaining Eight B12 schools are in full blown panic. They are all worried that the PAC12 will add the four best remaining Eight and that their school might not make the cut.

August 24th, 2021. The ACC, B1G & ACC try to counter the SEC coup with a piece of paper that loosely defines the meaningless alliance. It appeared stupid and meaningless at the time and it still appears that way. The Alliance may have eased the PAC12's mind for expansion. The PAC12 was convinced that they were super stable and were locked in as one of the top four conferences and that the BIG12 was on the outside looking in.

September 10th, 2021. The Big12 Adds Cincy, BYU, UCF & UH. The BIG12 is stabilized and united. Meanwhile, behind the scenes the B1G wants to get to 16 teams just like the SEC.  They begin back channel negotiations with USC/UO&ULCA. The Alliance will go down in the football realignment history books as the PAC12'S Neville Chamberlain moment.

Chamberlain, you could hold his head in the toilet, he'd still give you half of Europe.

[hookemATL 12317]

22 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

ACC in 2031: Stanford, Cal, SMU, Wake, Duke, Syracuse, Boston College, Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, Boston U, and Emory

Swarthmore needs a seat at the table IMO

[LTbear 4218]

24 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

ACC in 2031: Stanford, Cal, SMU, Wake, Duke, Syracuse, Boston College, Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, Boston U, and Emory

Don't wanna get ahead of myself but... maybe I could see Cal when a conference title in my lifetime. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2901]

Just now, hookemATL said:

Swarthmore needs a seat at the table IMO

MIT will demand CalTech gets in.  And the Claremont Colleges will want a piece of the pie.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2901]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

Don't wanna get ahead of myself but... maybe I could see Cal when a conference title in my lifetime. 

[Zhorn96 1836]

2 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Don't wanna get ahead of myself but... maybe I could see Cal when a conference title in my lifetime. 

C'mon man, you know that unless its Swimming, Water Polo, Rugby or Crew, Cal has no shot.  Even if they were in a League with UCSD, Panhandle State, Slippery Rock and Michigan Tech, they'd find a way to fuck it up

3 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

much more likely

[LTbear 4218]

2 minutes ago, Zhorn96 said:

C'mon man, you know that unless its Swimming, Water Polo, Rugby or Crew, Cal has no shot.  Even if they were in a League with UCSD, Panhandle State, Slippery Rock and Michigan Tech, they'd find a way to fuck it up

much more likely

Look I don't need this negativity in my life, muchacho.

[89Horn 1742]

1 hour ago, LTbear said:

Don't wanna get ahead of myself but... maybe I could see Cal when a conference title in my lifetime. 

Don’t count on it.  I hear Emory has 22 letterman coming back in 2031.  Looking strong.  

[notre dame joe 205]

3 hours ago, bullet said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/sports-world-reacts-to-stunning-acc-realignment/ar-AA1fGNYr

This article from this morning quoting a San Francisco reporter claims SMUCalFord to the A&P conference is a done deal.  Just doing the paperwork.  I don't consider this authoritative, but its the first one I've seen saying it is definitely happening.

The 'rumors' are 100% focused on these exact three schools.  It would be odd if every leaky mouthpiece was getting it wrong.  

 

and also this week the Noles seem to have figured out the mute button. 

[gatormarc 938]

2 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

and also this week the Noles seem to have figured out the mute button. 

They missed their 8/15 deadline without getting what they wanted, so it's back to working behind the scenes since they've got at least 22 months.

Their short term plan is probably to keep voting no on expansion until they extract the maximum amount of money from MethCalFord to at least let them redo the math.

[redswingline 1124]

3 hours ago, LTbear said:

Don't wanna get ahead of myself but... maybe I could see Cal when a conference title in my lifetime. 

Their best shot was 2004 when A-aron was playing QB.

Problem is they had to play USC, who was in its best run ever (2002-2008).

If I recall A-aron got Cal to 1st and goal near the end of the game, but couldn't get it punched in.

[Hurtlocker 2219]

3 hours ago, gatormarc said:

They missed their 8/15 deadline without getting what they wanted, so it's back to working behind the scenes since they've got at least 22 months.

Their short term plan is probably to keep voting no on expansion until they extract the maximum amount of money from MethCalFord to at least let them redo the math.

This is the most likely hypothesis I've heard yet.