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'stache

'stache 21823

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I'll never understand why the stories have to be taken literally. There's good stuff in there if you accept it for what it is (bad stuff too but it's a piece of literatrure if appreciated correctly). Dumber still is Catholics and the eucharist. Why do they insist on it being the actual body of Christ? It's a fine ritual if viewed symbolically, but the flesh stuff is weird. It goes in your mouth, you chew it, and know its a fucking cracker. Why keep saying its actual flesh? It's not. It's symbolic. Just treat it as such.

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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14 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I'll never understand why the stories have to be taken literally. There's good stuff in there if you accept it for what it is (bad stuff too but it's a piece of literatrure if appreciated correctly). Dumber still is Catholics and the eucharist. Why do they insist on it being the actual body of Christ? It's a fine ritual if viewed symbolically, but the flesh stuff is weird. It goes in your mouth, you chew it, and know its a fucking cracker. Why keep saying its actual flesh? It's not. It's symbolic. Just treat it as such.

This always tripped me out when I was growing up in Catholic school. Jesus himself used the bread symbolically, so it makes no sense to me that they had to come up with and insist on the transubstantiation nonsense. Jesus himself would be creeped the fuck out if you went back in time to tell him about this.

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F250

F250 28787

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59 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

This always tripped me out when I was growing up in Catholic school. Jesus himself used the bread symbolically, so it makes no sense to me that they had to come up with and insist on the transubstantiation nonsense. Jesus himself would be creeped the fuck out if you went back in time to tell him about this.

The Catholics are not unique in the belief in the presence of Christ regarding the Eucharist. The majority of Christianity considers the Eucharist to be a sacrament meaning there is something "magical" occurring. The Catholics use Transubstantiation to explain what is happening while others just write it off a mystery but uphold the idea of Christ's presence. Even the traditional Protestants hold this view.

The idea of it being the "Lord's Supper" and only a symbolic gesture is a fairly new belief.

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synoptic

synoptic 138

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Religions are not fundamentally about books as the vast majority of religions never had a book or writings of any type.  Many religions don't have much to say about the afterlife, either, and some say explicitly that there is no afterlife.  I think an aspect of religion is driven by some base psychology that humans use to connect in groups via ritual.  This extends beyond religions and is seen within most any large organized entity, at sporting events, and bizarre corporate team building gatherings.

I think many people in the west associate religion with books because of protestants' obsession with the bible.  The most organized and powerful religious groups in the world today come with rituals, central books & writings, ethical codes, and metaphysical views, and so people tend to see one or all of these as the defining characteristics of religion.  My view is that the defining characteristics of religion are certain metaphysical claims and ritual.  You combine these two things and you have a religion.  But neither writings nor ethical code are required.             

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28788

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18 hours ago, F250 said:

The Catholics are not unique in the belief in the presence of Christ regarding the Eucharist. The majority of Christianity considers the Eucharist to be a sacrament meaning there is something "magical" occurring. The Catholics use Transubstantiation to explain what is happening while others just write it off a mystery but uphold the idea of Christ's presence. Even the traditional Protestants hold this view.

The idea of it being the "Lord's Supper" and only a symbolic gesture is a fairly new belief.

In the Mennonite churches I attended, there was nothing “magical” about it. It was purely symbolic. We ate little cubes of homemade yeast bread made by women in the church, leavened bread (which tasted great), and we drank grape juice (alcohol was verboten) from little mini shot glasses passed around in trays that looked like this:

72779766-B05D-4E07-9172-95DA9713E480.png.e43a8ac6ce29fcc42d92337978d2f16b.png

And then we’d wash each other’s feet. Men would pair up in one room, women in another. You’d take turns washing each other’s feet, dry them with a towel, and then give each other a brotherly or sisterly kiss on the cheek. It was all symbolic but that was the most powerful symbol in the ritual because it demonstrated that the message of Christ is service to others. You’re no better than anyone if you’re willing to kneel down and wash their feet. That’s a powerful symbol.

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South Austin

South Austin 52521

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On 5/6/2022 at 12:34 PM, F250 said:

The Catholics are not unique in the belief in the presence of Christ regarding the Eucharist. The majority of Christianity considers the Eucharist to be a sacrament meaning there is something "magical" occurring. The Catholics use Transubstantiation to explain what is happening while others just write it off a mystery but uphold the idea of Christ's presence. Even the traditional Protestants hold this view.

The idea of it being the "Lord's Supper" and only a symbolic gesture is a fairly new belief.

I grew up Catholic and loved the liturgy, but even as a kid I thought WTF over the notion that the wafer I put in my mouth was supposed to be the flesh of Jesus. The Episcopal Church, of which I’ve been a member since 2009, does not subscribe to transubstantiation.

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F250

F250 28787

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9 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I grew up Catholic and loved the liturgy, but even as a kid I thought WTF over the notion that the wafer I put in my mouth was supposed to be the flesh of Jesus. The Episcopal Church, of which I’ve been a member since 2009, does not subscribe to transubstantiation.

Only Catholics believe in transubstantiation but Episcopalians do believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist so it's not a symbolic act. Pretty much any group that considers it a sacrament "magical act" believes in the real presence.

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South Austin

South Austin 52521

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5 minutes ago, F250 said:

Only Catholics believe in transubstantiation but Episcopalians do believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist so it's not a symbolic act. Pretty much any group that considers it a sacrament "magical act" believes in the real presence.

Christ is present in all sacraments (allegedly).

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F250

F250 28787

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On 5/7/2022 at 7:20 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

In the Mennonite churches I attended, there was nothing “magical” about it. It was purely symbolic. We ate little cubes of homemade yeast bread made by women in the church, leavened bread (which tasted great), and we drank grape juice (alcohol was verboten) from little mini shot glasses passed around in trays that looked like this:

72779766-B05D-4E07-9172-95DA9713E480.png.e43a8ac6ce29fcc42d92337978d2f16b.png

And then we’d wash each other’s feet. Men would pair up in one room, women in another. You’d take turns washing each other’s feet, dry them with a towel, and then give each other a brotherly or sisterly kiss on the cheek. It was all symbolic but that was the most powerful symbol in the ritual because it demonstrated that the message of Christ is service to others. You’re no better than anyone if you’re willing to kneel down and wash their feet. That’s a powerful symbol.

I've heard of foot washing but wasn't sure how it was practiced. As odd as it seems it actually sounds like a good practice.

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South Austin

South Austin 52521

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39 minutes ago, F250 said:

I've heard of foot washing but wasn't sure how it was practiced. As odd as it seems it actually sounds like a good practice.

We do the foot washing on Maundy Thursday (the Thursday before Easter). It’s indeed pretty powerful, watching men and women, young and old, clergy and laity, washing each other’s feet.

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7119

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2022 at 7:20 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

And then we’d wash each other’s feet. Men would pair up in one room, women in another. You’d take turns washing each other’s feet, dry them with a towel, and then give each other a brotherly or sisterly kiss on the cheek. 

Disgusted Jim Carrey GIF

Edited by Hermanator
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Satchel

Satchel 6938

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As a Christian, I’ll be the first to admit that millions of us have some pretty tricked up ideas about sexuality. During our Lenten retreats in high school, I remember the Father Gabriel (disordered as he was)  instructing us to say a short prayer every time an impure thoughts entered our minds. As a 16 year old boy, I would go home at the end of the day exhausted from praying.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31507

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25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

They’re apparently all child rape factories. No wonder they don’t want anyone teaching kids about sexual consent.

I think anything that places adults in proximity to children, teaching, scouts, churches, youth sports, has potential to be a "child rape factory."

I think the Catholic Church especially, with its clergy celibacy, probably attracts some young men with "unhealthy urges" who try to overcome or suppress it through piety and celibacy.  Probably applies to some extent to prod denominations too.

And, there are probably some that seek out the proximity to children.

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21204

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think anything that places adults in proximity to children, teaching, scouts, churches, youth sports, has potential to be a "child rape factory."

I think the Catholic Church especially, with its clergy celibacy, probably attracts some young men with "unhealthy urges" who try to overcome or suppress it through piety and celibacy.  Probably applies to some extent to prod denominations too.

And, there are probably some that seek out the proximity to children.

Perhaps the Catholic priesthood should study aggy’s gloryhole system.  Might help them take the edge off.

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hookemATL

hookemATL 11783

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6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Perhaps the Catholic priesthood should study aggy’s gloryhole system.  Might help them take the edge off.

I’m sure the pervert priests can tell the difference between a gloryhole rando and being knuckle deep in an altar boy they’ve been grooming for years. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28788

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4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think anything that places adults in proximity to children, teaching, scouts, churches, youth sports, has potential to be a "child rape factory."

I think the Catholic Church especially, with its clergy celibacy, probably attracts some young men with "unhealthy urges" who try to overcome or suppress it through piety and celibacy.  Probably applies to some extent to prod denominations too.

And, there are probably some that seek out the proximity to children.

I agree with that. But also, it’s not natural to be celibate. I think that the celibate lifestyle alone can have a deleterious effect on an otherwise normal person.

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Nivek

Nivek 16946

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52 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think anything that places adults in proximity to children, teaching, scouts, churches, youth sports, has potential to be a "child rape factory."

At least in baseball the kids have weapons and parents nearby. 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8037

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On 5/6/2022 at 11:04 AM, 'stache said:

I'll never understand why the stories have to be taken literally. There's good stuff in there if you accept it for what it is (bad stuff too but it's a piece of literatrure if appreciated correctly). Dumber still is Catholics and the eucharist. Why do they insist on it being the actual body of Christ? It's a fine ritual if viewed symbolically, but the flesh stuff is weird. It goes in your mouth, you chew it, and know its a fucking cracker. Why keep saying its actual flesh? It's not. It's symbolic. Just treat it as such.

Celiac suffers know it’s a cracker, also, just as alcoholics know the wine remains wine.

God is what is. Truth is how we learn something of the nature of God. So, to my way of thinking, it is more likely communion is spirit of flesh and blood, not trans substantiation.

Christ taught of man’s connection to God, and He did so in the context of a changing relationship. The God in the myths of creation, of Eden, of the covenant, of the new Covenant, these myths tell of change in the relationship between man and what is. It follows that uncertainty is appropriate, which jibes with the truth that the alternative is not to be our’s. Except for folks like @WhatTheBuck, I think.

The Jewish people are tasked with upholding God’s Law. And doing so in the face of apparent contradiction. Separating and preserving aspects of God (eg you must only eat fish with scales, or wear clothes of wool, or of cotton, but never a blend,) does not seem in keeping with God’s tendency towards complexity. That tendency is one constant of what is. But, as I said, I don’t know the will of God. But I believe He is truth.

Science is a great channel, alongside those of religions, on the tv that shows what is. Despite the claims to be found above, religions have offered understanding of part of the nature of God. I have already offered examples that support my statement. I posit there are aspects of God that science can never describe, and therefore, religion has its place in humanity’s task of trying to understand what is.

 

 

 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8037

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18 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

It's wild that we can see inside the nucleus of a cell or into the far reaches of space, but people still believe there's some sky daddy up there watching them and making sure they're being good. 

I am always amazed that, given the first part of your post, folks think about God in the way your post concludes, too. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28788

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15 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

It's wild that we can see inside the nucleus of a cell or into the far reaches of space, but people still believe there's some sky daddy up there watching them and making sure they're being good. 

And humanity has existed for many thousands of years before the modern concept of god, any god, or gods, was invented.

When I was eleven years old I asked a friend from church, just out of curiosity, “What if God doesn’t exist?” He freaked the fuck out. He told me I’d better fall on my knees and ask forgiveness for even considering the thought.

That was telling. I’ve said this before. My sister and brother-in-law had a couple signs hung in their home that said “pray” and “believe.” If I had kids, I’’d hang signs that say “think” and “question.”  

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Captainant

Captainant 27682

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6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And humanity has existed for many thousands of years before the modern concept of god, any god, or gods, was invented.

When I was eleven years old I asked a friend from church, just out of curiosity, “What if God doesn’t exist?” He freaked the fuck out. He told me I’d better fall on my knees and ask forgiveness for even considering the thought.

That was telling. I’ve said this before. My sister and brother-in-law had a couple signs hung in their home that said “pray” and “believe.” If I had kids, I’’d hang signs that say “think” and “question.”  

It goes hand in hand with the GOP urge to strike critical thinking from schools. They just want simple, obedient, useful idiots to obey and consume. Questioning and thinking is for commie libtard cabals

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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31 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

It's wild that we can see inside the nucleus of a cell or into the far reaches of space, but people still believe there's some sky daddy up there watching them and making sure they're being good. 

 

31 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Oops

 

31 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Oops2

You’re pretty confident about the extent of human knowledge for a guy who can’t successfully post on a message board.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9928

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image.jpeg.5c0f7aba462fa1834941665952cd85e7.jpeg

 

That's Earth. Taken by Voyager from Jupiter's orbit. 

You're a sentient sack of meat on a speck of dust hurtling through an infinite void.  From a universal relative time perspective, it's not really even worth measuring our lifetimes, our existence is so short. 

 

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Pods

Pods 7586

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6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

helping someone pass a math test or get a job...b/c he sure as hell isn't doing anything else useful 

He's in Ukraine right now, doing what He always does, answering an infinitesimally small number of prayers, while ignoring the vast majority of others.

Heaven has always had problems with the switchboard. 

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21204

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1 minute ago, Pods said:

He's in Ukraine right now, doing what He always does, answering an infinitesimally small number of prayers, while ignoring the vast majority of others.

Heaven has always had problems with the switchboard. 

Figures he'd be where the biggest war on earth is happening, right now.  He seems to really dig the plague, war and famine gigs. 

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Satchel

Satchel 6938

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5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think anything that places adults in proximity to children, teaching, scouts, churches, youth sports, has potential to be a "child rape factory."

I think the Catholic Church especially, with its clergy celibacy, probably attracts some young men with "unhealthy urges" who try to overcome or suppress it through piety and celibacy.  Probably applies to some extent to prod denominations too.

And, there are probably some that seek out the proximity to children.

I agree. It should be noted, however, that there are thousands of Catholic clergy around the world who serve the faithful faithfully. But sexual repression is a by product of a bad reading on personal piety. It seems sexual repression is most severe among the most conservative adherents.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28788

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1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

What conclusion do you draw from that evidence?

That religion is a man-made socio-political institution that evolves right alongside the human society that invented it as it evolves too.

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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