Religions are....

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That religion is a man-made socio-political institution that evolves right along the human society that invented it as it evolves. 

Is that the same statement as “belief in God is a man-made socio-political institution…?”

[Sbbruin 21,853]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:20 AM, Hookah Horns said:

This always tripped me out when I was growing up in Catholic school. Jesus himself used the bread symbolically, so it makes no sense to me that they had to come up with and insist on the transubstantiation nonsense. Jesus himself would be creeped the fuck out if you went back in time to tell him about this.

When you think of the evolution of the Catholic church, so much is based on ceremony and ritual.  And those were developed centuries after the death of Christ with the intent to create a spectacle of the mass.  Almost like theater.

[hookemATL 11,735]

10 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

When you think of the evolution of the Catholic church, so much is based on ceremony and ritual.  And those were developed centuries after the death of Christ with the intent to create a spectacle of the mass.  Almost like theater.

I dunno, that incense golden ball mace thing, all the Latin chanting and the cannibalism is pretty fucking metal. It’s the boy fucking that really turns me off. 

[hpslugga 4,058]

2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

I dunno, that incense golden ball mace thing, all the Latin chanting and the cannibalism is pretty fucking metal. It’s the boy fucking that really turns me off. 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by hpslugga

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,871]

3 hours ago, hookemATL said:

I dunno, that incense golden ball mace thing, all the Latin chanting and the cannibalism is pretty fucking metal. It’s the boy fucking that really turns me off. 

As a former catholic school and alter boy, i can gladly say my priest did not subscribe to that dogma. Or maybe i was an ugly kid. Either way! Whew!

[hookemATL 11,735]

16 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

As a former catholic school and alter boy, i can gladly say my priest did not subscribe to that dogma. Or maybe i was an ugly kid. Either way! Whew!

“Kid definitely looks like a chatty Kathy, plus he’s bow legged. WNB” - Father Spitfist

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

9 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Is that the same statement as “belief in God is a man-made socio-political institution…?”

Which god? Let me guess. Is it safe to assume you believe in the same god your parents did?

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

58 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Which god? Let me guess. Is it safe to assume you believe in the same god your parents did?

Might be safe, but I doubt they’d agree. If they were alive. I do my best not to define God, other than the truth of what is. 
 

Edited to state that my parents and I share(d) the belief of God as creator. So, there is that.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Explained

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

7 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Might be safe, but I doubt they’d agree. If they were alive. I do my best not to define God, other than the truth of what is. 
 

Edited to state that my parents and I share(d) the belief of God as creator. So, there is that.

Do you own a Bible? Do you go to church? Do you pray to your god whom you try not to define?

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Do you own a Bible? Do you go to church? Do you pray to your god whom you try not to define?

Yes, several translations. The Torah. The Vedas.
Rarely.

Yes.

 

So, are the statements equivalent?

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Willfully Horn
More

[F250 28,776]

37 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Yes, several translations. The Torah. The Vedas.
Rarely.

Yes.

 

So, are the statements equivalent?

 

 

You sound like one of them Coexist hippies.

 

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

You sound like one of them Coexist hippies.

 

I make everyone uncomfortable. So, yes?

[DigglerontheHoof 21,199]

...full of gun nuts who cherish their guns over kids and are rotten, rancid pieces of shit.   That's what churches are. 

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:41 PM, Willfully Horn said:

Is that the same statement as “belief in God is a man-made socio-political institution…?”

You can believe in God and still be skeptical of organized religion.  God doesn't have to come down to Earth and tell us anything. The bible could be man-made (or not) and there could still be a God. If you want real understanding, science can help. 

I believe there's a high probability our world, and the universe, was designed.  Most of science actually points in that direction. Look how everything works together in such a uniformed and complex way (at least in every way but quantum, which is the "magic", the brains behind it all). Even evolution, life evolves to keep up with the changes in nature. If our world was designed, there would probably need to be a Designer. It could be a force or intelligent beings on another planet or in the multiverse or whatever and we are in a simulation or something else. There are a million possibilities. When we play video games, our characters get more than one life. There's very little difference in the material of AI and us. We are all made of the same thing; just cooked a little differently. Robots will reach the singularity at some point soon. And when a robot dies, we have the ability to bring it back to life. Who says the same can't be done with human beings? By our possible maker? 

We've somehow been brainwashed, over ten thousand years, to think God must be in a book and that's nonsense. God can exist and has never shown "itself" to our kind. If more people were educated this way, and learned science, we wouldn't be having the issues of religion overtaking our government. Human beings believe in organized religion for two reasons: they are brainwashed from an early age. And they fear death and need hope. Well, guess what? You can have hope and question organized religion. Comfort and hope can be found in science. In nature.Our founding fathers were such people. It's how they wrote one of the finest documents of all time. They were open-minded and unbiased.

We must teach math and science at an early age (3 years old) and provide a free college education to all poor kids (in STEMs) who otherwise don't have a chance in life. It would actually boost the economy into the stratosphere and pay for itself two-fold. We should also study all organized religion in school as history and discuss what we know and what we don't know, just like in college.  Biblical/Historical archaeology should be a requirement. We should be teaching our kids how to build their own homes, etc. Parents should have online classes on how to raise kids and prepare them for society. Every parent should have to take it. The culture in America is broken. We must educate. To be honest, academia is broken as well. It needs a complete overhaul. Until we take care of those two issues, we will fight. Democrats vs Republicans; city vs country; religion vs academia. It all ties together and it is destroying our country. Our world. We have to make sure the poor get a fair chance growing up in this country. We must weaken the lobbyists hold on American politics (and that includes religious lobbyists).

This very topic is a core issue dividing America today. To fix it, we must educate. But we first must fix our education system.

 

 

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:08 PM, Willfully Horn said:

Yes, several translations. The Torah. The Vedas.
Rarely.

Yes.

 

So, are the statements equivalent?

 

 

So...what? You’re a Jewish Hindu?

Do you believe in eternal life, in Heaven and Hell? Or do you believe in reincarnation? What do you think happens after you die?

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

On 5/25/2022 at 3:56 PM, Sandbagging Steve said:

I believe there's a high probability our world, and the universe, was designed.  Most of science actually points in that direction.

No it doesn’t. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

To finish the thread title: dying.

every poll shows that fewer and fewer people say religion is important to them and they don’t even identify with any faith. Perhaps we will see some periodic upticks but there is no reason to believe the overall trend won’t continue and most likely speed up.

Actually to be more precise, its Protestant beliefs that are dying.

 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

To finish the thread title: dying.
every poll shows that fewer and fewer people say religion is important to them and they don’t even identify with any faith. Perhaps we will see some periodic upticks but there is no reason to believe the overall trend won’t continue and most likely speed up.
Actually to be more precise, its Protestant beliefs that are dying.
 

Good.

The sooner, the better.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

If you're in the 60-70% of the left leaning side of politics, I don't see how you could set foot in an average protestant church. Either the message or the crowd would be impossible to tolerate due to their hypocrisy in almost everything.

[Nivek 16,930]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:56 PM, Sandbagging Steve said:

You can believe in God and still be skeptical of organized religion.  God doesn't have to come down to Earth and tell us anything. The bible could be man-made (or not) and there could still be a God. If you want real understanding, science can help. 

I believe there's a high probability our world, and the universe, was designed.  Most of science actually points in that direction. Look how everything works together in such a uniformed and complex way (at least in every way but quantum, which is the "magic", the brains behind it all). Even evolution, life evolves to keep up with the changes in nature. If our world was designed, there would probably need to be a Designer. It could be a force or intelligent beings on another planet or in the multiverse or whatever and we are in a simulation or something else. There are a million possibilities. When we play video games, our characters get more than one life. There's very little difference in the material of AI and us. We are all made of the same thing; just cooked a little differently. Robots will reach the singularity at some point soon. And when a robot dies, we have the ability to bring it back to life. Who says the same can't be done with human beings? By our possible maker? 

We've somehow been brainwashed, over ten thousand years, to think God must be in a book and that's nonsense. God can exist and has never shown "itself" to our kind. If more people were educated this way, and learned science, we wouldn't be having the issues of religion overtaking our government. Human beings believe in organized religion for two reasons: they are brainwashed from an early age. And they fear death and need hope. Well, guess what? You can have hope and question organized religion. Comfort and hope can be found in science. In nature.Our founding fathers were such people. It's how they wrote one of the finest documents of all time. They were open-minded and unbiased.

We must teach math and science at an early age (3 years old) and provide a free college education to all poor kids (in STEMs) who otherwise don't have a chance in life. It would actually boost the economy into the stratosphere and pay for itself two-fold. We should also study all organized religion in school as history and discuss what we know and what we don't know, just like in college.  Biblical/Historical archaeology should be a requirement. We should be teaching our kids how to build their own homes, etc. Parents should have online classes on how to raise kids and prepare them for society. Every parent should have to take it. The culture in America is broken. We must educate. To be honest, academia is broken as well. It needs a complete overhaul. Until we take care of those two issues, we will fight. Democrats vs Republicans; city vs country; religion vs academia. It all ties together and it is destroying our country. Our world. We have to make sure the poor get a fair chance growing up in this country. We must weaken the lobbyists hold on American politics (and that includes religious lobbyists).

This very topic is a core issue dividing America today. To fix it, we must educate. But we first must fix our education system.

 

 

 

 

This is a nicely packaged bullshit.  But the wrapping paper is nice.  

[hookemATL 11,735]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

This is a nicely packaged bullshit.  But the wrapping paper is nice.  

WHAT IF GOD WAS THE FIRST SCIENTIST AND JESUS WAS HIS RESEARCH ASSISTANT?!?

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

33 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

WHAT IF GOD WAS THE FIRST SCIENTIST AND JESUS WAS HIS RESEARCH ASSISTANT?!?

The problem is that Christians believe Jesus is God. But they also believe he was His only begotten son. But he’s infinite and existed for all time. But he spent a little time as a human and got killed and then rose again because he was the infinite creator god the whole time. Was that really that big of a deal? And why was that necessary to provide salvation to God’s own imperfect creation in the first place? And if you were the ultimate, infinite all-being master of time, space, and dimension, creator of the universe, what reason would you have to be jealous of lesser gods? (Never mind that that principle acknowledges that there are other gods.) Jealousy is a negative human emotion. A supreme being wouldn’t be capable of jealousy. Also, what’s up with the need to be worshipped? Just how insecure do you have to be to demand worship?

It’s dizzying. 

[Snake Diggity 4,625]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The problem is that Christians believe Jesus is God. But they also believe he was His only begotten son. But he’s infinite and existed for all time. But he spent a little time as a human and got killed and then rose again because he was the infinite creator god the whole time. Was that really that big of a deal? And why was that necessary to provide salvation to God’s own imperfect creation in the first place? And if you were the ultimate, infinite all-being master of time, space, and dimension, creator of the universe, what reason would you have to be jealous of lesser gods? (Never mind that that principle acknowledges that there are other gods.) Jealousy is a negative human emotion. A supreme being wouldn’t be capable of jealousy. Also, what’s up with the need to be worshipped? Just how insecure do you have to be to demand worship?

It’s dizzying. 

They got answers for all that shit, man.  Just go talk to a priest (but watch your cornhole).

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

They got answers for all that shit, man.  Just go talk to a priest (but watch your cornhole).

And yet none of them can tell the Easter story in a way that is consistent with the gospels because they contradict each other. Hell, Genesis begins with two different creation myths. 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:02 PM, DigglerontheHoof said:

...full of gun nuts who cherish their guns over kids and are rotten, rancid pieces of shit.   That's what churches are. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Think about how stupid Scientology is

now imagine 99% of the world believing it

that’s the world we live in 

but it’s different because…

[wildcat09 29,354]

It's always wild to see the "God must be real because look at how well everything fits together" claim in the wild. What the fuck does that even mean? What do you think things would look like without a creator?

[DigglerontheHoof 21,199]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's always wild to see the "God must be real because look at how well everything fits together" claim in the wild. What the fuck does that even mean? What do you think things would look like without a creator?

[formermav43 4,606]

No zeal at all. Clearly.

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

So...what? You’re a Jewish Hindu?

Do you believe in eternal life, in Heaven and Hell? Or do you believe in reincarnation? What do you think happens after you die?

Buck, you might benefit from paying attention, as I have already posted, or messaged, my religion. And, you don’t really need to know, or approve, of my beliefs to answer the question I asked. It seems you have a hang up separating God from religion, since you avoid the direct question asking if you see them as equivalent.

In the spirit of good faith, I will say I’m not Jewish. But the rabbi at Chabot House sold me a Torah. I’m not Hindu, though Indian culture in general profoundly fascinates me. Further, I seek medical treatment from Western medicine, and also, less frequently, Eastern medicine. Eastern medicine cured my gout, btw. In a month. And I have years of blood tests to prove it.

I have no way of knowing if there is an afterlife. (When my daughter was four, I asked her where she was before she was in her mother’s womb. She told me she was in a box on a stove).”

I find your certainty that there is no God interesting, and figured you were being flippant when you explained it. So, I wanted to discuss it. I asked to take the discussion private, but you think it ought he public. Fine.

Do you mind answering my question? 

[UpperWestside 6,164]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If you're in the 60-70% of the left leaning side of politics, I don't see how you could set foot in an average protestant church. Either the message or the crowd would be impossible to tolerate due to their hypocrisy in almost everything.

I go to a Baptist church in The Bronx. My pastor is a woman who put in 20 years with NYPD. The church accepts anyone no matter your sexual orientation or race or anything else that seems to divide society. She encourages people to vote. She preached a couple of Sundays ago wearing a shirt that simply says vote on it. Anytime II Corinthians is a part of her message she asks everyone to open up their Bibles to “TWO Corinthians like 45 would.” 
 

She preached about abortion recently and said even if you do not agree with it that it is not anyone’s place to take that right away from women to choose. This is a pretty progressive church for Baptists, but it still has the old school things like ushers and church mothers. I like it and I am not someone that grew up in church nor was it ever pushed onto me as Sunday mornings for my family as a kid were reserved for eating copious amounts of pancakes or French toast at the table.

Edited May 27, 2022 by UpperWestside

[F250 28,776]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If you're in the 60-70% of the left leaning side of politics, I don't see how you could set foot in an average protestant church. Either the message or the crowd would be impossible to tolerate due to their hypocrisy in almost everything.

Interesting comment. I've been politically libertarian since college but my Methodist background (social gospel) tempered my views on economic policies which keeps me out of the right wing camp and primarily a civil libertarian.

 

[Cacti 191]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

every poll shows that fewer and fewer people say religion is important to them and they don’t even identify with any faith. 

If you’re limiting your statement to Western societies, you’re right. But if you’re talking worldwide, then you’re wrong, at least according to this Pew Research Center poll.

Quote

…the religiously unaffiliated population is projected to shrink as a percentage of the global population, even though it will increase in absolute number. In 2010, censuses and surveys indicate, there were about 1.1 billion atheists, agnostics and people who do not identify with any particular religion. By 2050, the unaffiliated population is expected to exceed 1.2 billion. But, as a share of all the people in the world, those with no religious affiliation are projected to decline from 16% in 2010 to 13% by the middle of this century.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

2 hours ago, Cacti said:

If you’re limiting your statement to Western societies, you’re right. But if you’re talking worldwide, then you’re wrong, at least according to this Pew Research Center poll.

 

I was talking about the US only. I should have stated as such.

without looking at numbers, you're probably correct that most of the world's population growth are in countries with more belief in a higher power.

 

[Satchel 6,938]

Some can be flat awful:

https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1529278862013652992?s=20&t=nn_f5BT83pCfTuu8bmiftg

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Some can be flat awful:
https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1529278862013652992?s=20&t=nn_f5BT83pCfTuu8bmiftg

Well, I hope he gets cancer. Fuck that guy. But I am sure there are several people in this site that feel the same way he does.

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

14 hours ago, hookemATL said:

WHAT IF GOD WAS THE FIRST SCIENTIST AND JESUS WAS HIS RESEARCH ASSISTANT?!?

What I wrote has absolutely nothing to do Jesus or any religion. I'm agnostic. I lean toward there being a design/designer..somewhat like the way of the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza. I'm simply stating that our world and the universe all works together. You change one thing, you disrupt everything. Why couldn't there be a God in such a scenario? Einstein believed it. You're smarter than Einstein?

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,652]

built some cool buildings and inspired some beautiful art.   besides that, religion is pretty dumb 

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

12 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It's always wild to see the "God must be real because look at how well everything fits together" claim in the wild. What the fuck does that even mean? What do you think things would look like without a creator?

Nowhere did I say God must be real. Fucking atheists are as bad as religious people; both are brainwashed. There's no one who can answer this question either way (not talking about religion but God). No one fucking knows if there is or isn't a God. I'm agnostic. 

If everything works together it would definitely support it being designed. Doesn't make it a fact. It certainly doesn't have to work together. Why would some alternative universe have to all work together?  Quantum physics, as I stated in my original post, doesn't all work together. There's your proof of what some alternative universe could look like without it all working together. Big physics could work like small physics. Heck, if there's no design, there's no certainty for any rules or laws of that universe. In our universe, big physics does all work together (and evolution fits in there as well)..

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

BTW, there's many scientists open to the fact we could possibly be in a simulation. There's no current way to really study that (unless string theory advances or something) so it isn't something talked about a lot but there are plenty of scientists open to the possibility. Half the science field believes there's a God (just not any religions).

From pew research: "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. "

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

51 minutes ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

BTW, there's many scientists open to the fact we could possibly be in a simulation. There's no current way to really study that (unless string theory advances or something) so it isn't something talked about a lot but there are plenty of scientists open to the possibility. Half the science field believes there's a God (just not any religions).

From pew research: "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. "

Unable to edit, but I was going to talk about the multiverse and string theory. Just disregard the first paragraph. Tired of typing on my phone and not being able to edit. Cheers.

[hookemATL 11,735]

7 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

What I wrote has absolutely nothing to do Jesus or any religion. I'm agnostic. I lean toward there being a design/designer..somewhat like the way of the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza. I'm simply stating that our world and the universe all works together. You change one thing, you disrupt everything. Why couldn't there be a God in such a scenario? Einstein believed it. You're smarter than Einstein?

Take a chill pill bro. 

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

9 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

 Einstein believed it. You're smarter than Einstein?

Probably.

[Nivek 16,930]

12 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

Nowhere did I say God must be real. Fucking atheists are as bad as religious people; both are brainwashed. There's no one who can answer this question either way (not talking about religion but God). No one fucking knows if there is or isn't a God. I'm agnostic. 

If everything works together it would definitely support it being designed. Doesn't make it a fact. It certainly doesn't have to work together. Why would some alternative universe have to all work together?  Quantum physics, as I stated in my original post, doesn't all work together. There's your proof of what some alternative universe could look like without it all working together. Big physics could work like small physics. Heck, if there's no design, there's no certainty for any rules or laws of that universe. In our universe, big physics does all work together (and evolution fits in there as well)..

Leave the both sides bullshit to Anastasis.  He is way more compelling with it.  

[Nivek 16,930]

12 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

What I wrote has absolutely nothing to do Jesus or any religion. I'm agnostic. I lean toward there being a design/designer..somewhat like the way of the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza. I'm simply stating that our world and the universe all works together. You change one thing, you disrupt everything. Why couldn't there be a God in such a scenario? Einstein believed it. You're smarter than Einstein?

No one believes this.  

[Neonmoon 38,129]

14 hours ago, Sandbagging Steve said:

If everything works together it would definitely support it being designed. Doesn't make it a fact. It certainly doesn't have to work together. Why would some alternative universe have to all work together?  Quantum physics, as I stated in my original post, doesn't all work together. There's your proof of what some alternative universe could look like without it all working together. Big physics could work like small physics. Heck, if there's no design, there's no certainty for any rules or laws of that universe. In our universe, big physics does all work together (and evolution fits in there as well)..

“If everything works together it would definitely support it being designed.”

why? 

You might believe things working together supports design, but there is no proof of this assertion. How would you define “working together” anyway? How would you possibly know the difference? For example, you may look at the remora fish that attaches to sharks and see things working together. Another being may see this same relationship and see an aberration, an example of things not working together. Who is the judge that determines what is or isn’t working together?

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,472]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

No one believes this.  

Yeah, that's pretty presumptuous on your part.  There is a good deal of order in our universe despite the existence of entropy and the tendency of everything toward chaos.

It's rather amusing that nonbelievers are more hostile and condescending toward believers than the other way round, although that has not historically been the case.

Edited May 28, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

It’s amazing that people can be anti religion, let people believe whatever they like and leave them alone. It’s not like leaders use religion as an excuse to oppress and subjugate people. The real problem are the atheists who are mean to people. 

[TwiceHorn 31,472]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It’s amazing that people can be anti religion, let people believe whatever they like and leave them alone. It’s not like leaders use religion as an excuse to oppress and subjugate people. The real problem are the atheists who are mean to people. 

Plenty of believers that aren't particular fans of religion, especially certain sects.

And the hostility extends to "believers" without evidence that they subscribe to any of the nastier tenets or tendencies of religions.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

Won’t someone please protect all these persecuted Christians!