Roe v Wade to be overturned

[Lucid 3]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Not sure what 45-60 days more time accomplishes.

That's an extra 7 or 8 'big news' cycles bro

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

Post-Roe, will there be a constitutional prohibition on states mandating abortions? E.g., “Single? No kids for you.”

[JBJ 3649]

27 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

Post-Roe, will there be a constitutional prohibition on states mandating abortions? E.g., “Single? No kids for you.”

There already is one.

Edited May 3, 2022 by JBJ

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

There already is one.

Que?

[JBJ 3649]

5 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

Que?

We've done the eugenics thing already.

[washparkhorn 9935]

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

 

['stache 21774]

6 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

 

I hate when presidents do this. You need Congress to pass it first Joe. I read that the House passed this already some time ago but the Senate lacks to D votes (Manchin and someone else who is not Sinema). All this will do is make the Bernie bro types say you reneged on a promise, because this can be read as a promise that you know you can't accomplish on your own. 

[RabidM 2664]

This ruling will also endanger other things as well.  It was based on the concept of a Constitutional Right to Privacy... ie, to conduct your affairs as you see fit.  That is an implied right, and is not explicitly in the Constitution.  There are a string of important rights based upon this, not just abortion. 

The landmark case is Griswold vs. Connecticut - which legalized access to contraception for married couples

 

The ruling in that case was used as the precedent for:

Eisenstadt v. Baird - which legalized access to contraception for anyone

Loving v. Virginia - which legalized interracial marriage

Roe v. Wade - which legalized abortion

Lawrence v. Texas - which legalized gay sex

Obergefell v. Hodges - which legalized gay marriage

 

Banning the above is a wet dream for the extremely far right, which is largely, now just the right.  And yes, interracial marriage was brought up as perhaps not rightly decided by a Republican recently.   

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20345]

 

[RabidM 2664]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I hate when presidents do this. You need Congress to pass it first Joe. I read that the House passed this already some time ago but the Senate lacks to D votes (Manchin and someone else who is not Sinema). All this will do is make the Bernie bro types say you reneged on a promise, because this can be read as a promise that you know you can't accomplish on your own. 

Susan Collins would vote for this, however, the problem is you need 60 votes to pass it, or you need to set aside the filibuster for this specific issue.  That's highly unlikely to happen. 

[Cairn Horn88 8184]

"When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me...Speaking words of wisdom, let it be."

[MoJames 8241]

Welp looks like more people gonna be moving to Colorado.

[Bookman 4611]

Quote

The two Republican senators who support abortion rights — Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — signaled that they would object to the ruling, as written by Justice Samuel Alito, with apparent backing from Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, Amy Coney Barrett and Clarence Thomas.

“It was not the direction that I believed the court would take based on statements that have been made about Roe being settled and being precedent,” Ms. Murkowski said, after telling reporters that “it rocks my confidence in the court right now” should that decision become final.

In a statement, Ms. Collins pointedly noted that the ruling “would be completely inconsistent with what Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh said in their hearings and in our meetings in my office.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/03/us/roe-wade-abortion-supreme-court?action=click&pgtype=Article&module=&state=default&region=footer&context=breakout_link_back_to_briefing#republicans-celebrate-the-draft-opinion-with-muted-optimism

[Satchel 6908]

41 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

Yep. This ruling is the result of years of planning that included making it and other onerous laws like it impervious to repeal.

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

11 minutes ago, Bookman said:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/03/us/roe-wade-abortion-supreme-court?action=click&pgtype=Article&module=&state=default&region=footer&context=breakout_link_back_to_briefing#republicans-celebrate-the-draft-opinion-with-muted-optimism

 

so its seems she's moved from concerned to very concerned.

 

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

14 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Welp looks like more people gonna be moving to Colorado.

But with all the abortions, it will mitigate the population growth.

[4th&Five 41461]

 

[Satchel 6908]

4 hours ago, alincoln said:

I'm not talking about suburban moms in backwater Oklahoma.  Suburban moms are swing voters outside of your megachurch hellscape.

I see your point. During the 2012 election, one of my white neighbors spotted me in my front yard, stopped her car, call me over to tell me she liked my Obama yard sign and she would be voting for him and didn’t give a damn what her husband thought. 
I suspect there are quite a few women like her who will vote against their husbands on this issue.

[Chewbacca 7730]

1 hour ago, MoJames said:

Welp looks like more people gonna be moving to Colorado.

Too bad we're full.

[MrBig 5289]

52 minutes ago, Satchel said:

I see your point. During the 2012 election, one of my white neighbors spotted me in my front yard, stopped her car, call me over to tell me she liked my Obama yard sign and she would be voting for him and didn’t give a damn what her husband thought. 
I suspect there are quite a few women like her who will vote against their husbands on this issue.

[Mileslong 4715]

[StassneyHorn 6540]

The shaggy Do-Righters assured the board they have already explained why the Texas bill is good to their wives and daughters. They came back and told us how those conversations went when passed and had praising support for carrying their rapists child.

you remember that, right?

[MoJames 8241]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Too bad we're full.

 

Granted I'd love to see if my house continues to increase in value. It's already up to 2.5 times what I purchased it for in 2010ish.

[Chewbacca 7730]

4 minutes ago, MoJames said:

 

Granted I'd love to see if my house continues to increase in value. It's already up to 2.5 times what I purchased it for in 2010ish.

Yeah, I hear you.  I'd prefer a stop to the madness, though.  I imagine Durango is probably running into a lot of the staffing issues that mountain towns are having.  Nobody can get help because people can't find places to live.  Our mountain house is worth roughly 3x what we paid for it in 2015.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Chewbacca

[MoJames 8241]

They are all just driving in from Aztec/Cortez/Farmington. Not great, but not awful yet.

[Aqua Buddha 14521]

Read something today on the NYT where almost a third of all patients in Minneapolis now are from Texas and most of them are driving because they can't afford to fly.

[LTbear 4161]

16 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, I hear you.  I'd prefer a stop to the madness, though.  I imagine Durango is probably running into a lot of the staffing issues that mountain towns are having.  Nobody can get help because people can't find places to live.  Our mountain house is worth roughly 3x what we paid for it in 2015.

Craziness. Durango and Ouray are about the last remaining good places in Colorado.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

hard to believe society is regressing so hard so fast. What a right wing backlash to modernity, getting truly scary. This country is sick man. 

[Brian Fantana 6668]

It's amazing how much damage a black man getting elected president did to the brains of conservatives.

[hookemATL 11611]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's amazing how much damage a black man getting elected president did to the brains of conservatives.

It’s quite disingenuous for you to say this while ignoring the fact that the man wore a TAN suit AND ate dijon mustard.  

[Pancho 44487]

5 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

It’s quite disingenuous for you to say this while ignoring the fact that the man wore a TAN suit AND ate dijon mustard.  

And arugula! 

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, LTbear said:

Craziness. Durango and Ouray are about the last remaining good places in Colorado.

Don’t have much experience in Co but have been around Durango a bit. I hope your statement is hyperbole. 

[Satchel 6908]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's amazing how much damage a black man getting elected president did to the brains of conservatives.

History tells us that there is always retrenchment in response to perceived advancements by non dominants. The overreaction to the Obama presidency is more pronounced than even I imagined.

[Deej 76568]

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/were-the-supreme-court-and-we-should-have-used-protection

[LTbear 4161]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Don’t have much experience in Co but have been around Durango a bit. I hope your statement is hyperbole. 

Not at all. Durango - smallish town with incredible access to mountain wilderness areas - is the best town left in the state. Everywhere else, even the once cool little mountain towns, are absolutely overrun. 

[Bookman 4611]

9 hours ago, hookemATL said:

It’s quite disingenuous for you to say this while ignoring the fact that the man wore a TAN suit AND ate dijon mustard.  

Don't forget he also disgraced the office by putting his feet on the desk.

[hpslugga 4044]

12 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Don't forget he also disgraced the office by putting his feet on the desk.

He also saluted a soldier with coffee in his hand

[Bookman 4611]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

He also saluted a soldier with coffee in his hand

And wasn't there a time he made a soldier hold an umbrella when it was raining?

[Tuco 5076]

I’ve always thought overturning Roe would be a killer for the GOP on a national scale.  Some on the pro choice side have not pushed back on the slow erosion of pro choice options, and they’ve voted based on other issues. Now they’re having Roe overturned and other non-abortion rights in the crosshairs. A certain # will cross over to vote Dem or at least not vote GOP.
 

I’m afraid you are wrong.

There will be blowback against the Dems for not protecting abortion rights. I went to a protest last night, not realizing it was a Democratic Socialist rally. So, sure, take it with a grain of salt, but it was a constant barrage against Dems for failing to prevent this. They cited the empty campaign promises about “codifying” Roe v Wade. They claimed the Dems had the power to prevent this by expanding the Court. The worst accusation was that they still did not have a plan to stop it. The scary thing is, if you really didn’t have any idea what the fuck is going on, it sounds convincing. And there are a lot of stupid people out there.

So I hope you are right, but I am afraid you are wrong.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

15 hours ago, LTbear said:

Craziness. Durango and Ouray are about the last remaining good places in Colorado.

Lake City.  But it's just a matter of time there too.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's amazing how much damage a black man getting elected president did to the brains of conservatives.

I don't think it would have been as bad without social media really blowing up during Obama's presidency too.

Prior to Facebook, they just would have muttered some racial slurs at him while having coffee and voted for whatever milquetoast Republican candidate entered the platform.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

22 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I’m afraid you are wrong.

There will be blowback against the Dems for not protecting abortion rights. I went to a protest last night, not realizing it was a Democratic Socialist rally. So, sure, take it with a grain of salt, but it was a constant barrage against Dems for failing to prevent this. They cited the empty campaign promises about “codifying” Roe v Wade. They claimed the Dems had the power to prevent this by expanding the Court. The worst accusation was that they still did not have a plan to stop it. The scary thing is, if you really didn’t have any idea what the fuck is going on, it sounds convincing. And there are a lot of stupid people out there.

So I hope you are right, but I am afraid you are wrong.

If a voting bloc believes the path of codifying abortion rights is to vote Dems out of office, then I guess that is their right to be stupid. I'm sure their path will be to add their candidates to primaries which ultimately could lead to Dems losing seats in Congress.

Obama could have pushed (attempted) an abortion rights bill but what would that have earned him? Maintaining the status quo and burning political capital and risking a potential loss? Very little to gain against a decent chance of losing?

[wildcat09 29258]

29 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I’m afraid you are wrong.

There will be blowback against the Dems for not protecting abortion rights. I went to a protest last night, not realizing it was a Democratic Socialist rally. So, sure, take it with a grain of salt, but it was a constant barrage against Dems for failing to prevent this. They cited the empty campaign promises about “codifying” Roe v Wade. They claimed the Dems had the power to prevent this by expanding the Court. The worst accusation was that they still did not have a plan to stop it. The scary thing is, if you really didn’t have any idea what the fuck is going on, it sounds convincing. And there are a lot of stupid people out there.

So I hope you are right, but I am afraid you are wrong.

I mean, none of those things are wrong. It’s not directing the blame at the people most responsible and it doesn’t do anything to help, but none of that is factually incorrect.

I don’t like blaming Dems for shit Republicans do, but I also don’t like how mainstream Dems and Dem leadership refuse to ever consider the possibility that their own behavior helps the Republicans. Sneeringly blaming supporters for not supporting you more when you don’t ever even provide any fucking results is horrible politics and they won’t stop doing it.

[MoJames 8241]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Lake City.  But it's just a matter of time there too.

Too many Texans.

Edited May 4, 2022 by MoJames

['stache 21774]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If a voting bloc believes the path of codifying abortion rights is to vote Dems out of office, then I guess that is their right to be stupid. I'm sure their path will be to add their candidates to primaries which ultimately could lead to Dems losing seats in Congress.

Obama could have pushed (attempted) an abortion rights bill but what would that have earned him? Maintaining the status quo and burning political capital and risking a potential loss? Very little to gain against a decent chance of losing?

This. It's fucking driving me crazy. It's literally their fault for all of this. They were too butthurt over Bernie's primary loss to vote for Hillary because "tHEY're ALl the saME." Of course, Hillary would not have appointed the judges who are about to decimate civil rights in this country and make us a theocracy. But she didn't support universal health care, so I guess it's all the fucking same to them. Fucking infuriating. 

[wildcat09 29258]

15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This. It's fucking driving me crazy. It's literally their fault for all of this. They were too butthurt over Bernie's primary loss to vote for Hillary because "tHEY're ALl the saME." Of course, Hillary would not have appointed the judges who are about to decimate civil rights in this country and make us a theocracy. But she didn't support universal health care, so I guess it's all the fucking same to them. Fucking infuriating. 

This is what I mean. This is bad politics. It doesn't really matter for a random person on Surly to say shit like this, but actual elected Dems say shit like this all the time and that to me is much more infuriating than the fact that a bunch of teenagers didn't vote for Hillary. 

Is it literally true that 100,000 more of them understanding the true stakes and voting accordingly would've changed everything? Absolutely yes. Is it beyond fucking stupid for politicians to think they're simply entitled to votes because the other guy is worse and to not actually do anything to appeal to those 100,000 people? Also yes! Dems operate as if all people are perfectly rational actors with perfect understandings of our political system and end up completely befuddled when that turns out to be wrong and instead of engaging in the easiest fucking self reflection, they blame voters for not being perfectly rational actors with perfect understandings of our political system. It's even dumber than the thinking of the voters they sneer at for not voting for them.

['stache 21774]

37 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is what I mean. This is bad politics. It doesn't really matter for a random person on Surly to say shit like this, but actual elected Dems say shit like this all the time and that to me is much more infuriating than the fact that a bunch of teenagers didn't vote for Hillary. 

Is it literally true that 100,000 more of them understanding the true stakes and voting accordingly would've changed everything? Absolutely yes. Is it beyond fucking stupid for politicians to think they're simply entitled to votes because the other guy is worse and to not actually do anything to appeal to those 100,000 people? Also yes! Dems operate as if all people are perfectly rational actors with perfect understandings of our political system and end up completely befuddled when that turns out to be wrong and instead of engaging in the easiest fucking self reflection, they blame voters for not being perfectly rational actors with perfect understandings of our political system. It's even dumber than the thinking of the voters they sneer at for not voting for them.

I don't really disagree, democrats in general should do more to embrace the progressive wing and should be less condescending both during and after primaries. But it's more than a few teenagers, there is a movement of ideological purity among some progressives that is just dumb. Many mainstream democrats are indeed embracing the progressive wing even if they don't quite support everything they want like universal healthcare or cancelling of all student debt, and even they get shit on by the progressive people I'm talking about (again some, not all). I say that as someone who is with the far progressives on many if not most issues, but I support any and all democrats (mostly I should say) if they prevail in the primary. Look at the right for example. There has been a pretty big rift between the trumpers/tea partiers/whatever and the "RINOS" but the former will always vote for the latter because "lib tears" or more accurately because they will support more of what they want than the other side. I don't blame mainstream democrats for the progressives who decide that ideological purity is necessary or they stay home. It is so harmful and I truly believe we are heading towards a constitutional crisis because of it.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

20 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't really disagree, democrats in general should do more to embrace the progressive wing and should be less condescending both during and after primaries. But it's more than a few teenagers, there is a movement of ideological purity among some progressives that is just dumb. Many mainstream democrats are indeed embracing the progressive wing even if they don't quite support everything they want like universal healthcare or cancelling of all student debt, and even they get shit on by the progressive people I'm talking about (again some, not all). I say that as someone who is with the far progressives on many if not most issues, but I support any and all democrats (mostly I should say) if they prevail in the primary. Look at the right for example. There has been a pretty big rift between the trumpers/tea partiers/whatever and the "RINOS" but the former will always vote for the latter because "lib tears" or more accurately because they will support more of what they want than the other side. I don't blame mainstream democrats for the progressives who decide that ideological purity is necessary or they stay home. It is so harmful and I truly believe we are heading towards a constitutional crisis because of it.

Word. R's know that you have to do stuff in order.  First acquire power, then decide what to do with it.  D's haven't figure that out yet.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

In terms of stupid voters, I'm reminded of UK interviews soon after the Brexit vote. People on street were saying they voted for Brexit but immediately regretted it when they realized that side won. They didn't really think it was a possibility but they wanted to express their general displeasure at the EU. Then the entire UK economy is turned upside down. Good job morons.

But back to US politics,  I do blame the Dems for bad strategies across every spectrum: national, state and even local.  The Dems' strategy/message is sometimes just, "hey, look how bad my opponent is." They count on reasonable, not-stupid voters which is proven to not work.