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Westworld Season 4

txfan75

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Red Five

Red Five 40859

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Posted

I bailed on this show in the middle of the last season. Some episode yet again opened up with Maeve running in slow motion in the 1800s and I just couldn't take anymore. Judging by the responses, I probably shouldn't start season four huh.

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Js1

Js1 85341

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2 hours ago, Red Five said:

I bailed on this show in the middle of the last season. Some episode yet again opened up with Maeve running in slow motion in the 1800s and I just couldn't take anymore. Judging by the responses, I probably shouldn't start season four huh.

It wasn't in the 1800s setting (yet) so there's that! 

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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24 minutes ago, Haphap said:

likely robot flies with some kind of mind altering capabilities

I was just trying to remember if we've seen anything in the show to indicate they have technology to take over a real person's will and control them.

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Js1

Js1 85341

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2 minutes ago, Augustus said:

I was just trying to remember if we've seen anything in the show to indicate they have technology to take over a real person's will and control them.

I don't think so yet. 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11763

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2 episodes in and we still havent seen Bernard.   although, we last saw him shutting down and then waking up with what looked like 40+ years worth of dust on him and the whole room...

this season is saying its been 7 years since the Robots took over the park.   maybe hes not supposed to be in this season?

 

that being said, there is a serious Invasion of the Body Snatchers vibe going on right now. 

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Haphap

Haphap 741

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33 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

2 episodes in and we still havent seen Bernard.   although, we last saw him shutting down and then waking up with what looked like 40+ years worth of dust on him and the whole room...

this season is saying its been 7 years since the Robots took over the park.   maybe hes not supposed to be in this season?

 

that being said, there is a serious Invasion of the Body Snatchers vibe going on right now. 

he is in the promo for episode 3

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Pretty much.

I accidentally cued up S1E1 and it took me ten minutes to realize it. They revisit so much in this show that I thought we were back to 1800s Delores and I just went with it.

lol I did the exact same thing.

I finally realized that they weren’t “rebooting” the story after about 12 minutes.

I felt like an idiot.
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83Horn

83Horn 1641

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12 hours ago, Augustus said:

I think this my stop.  Y'all enjoy the rest of the trip.

Nothing that's happening in this season is interesting to me at all, which is disappointing because I was hoping they'd come back stronger this year.

I'm getting close to this right here.  I'm trying to like this show, but I find myself losing patience waiting for something interesting to happen.  As of right now, the only thing holding my attention is watching Maeve walk around in slinky, tight fitting dresses.

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RPM

RPM 26321

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13 hours ago, Augustus said:

I think this my stop.  Y'all enjoy the rest of the trip.

Nothing that's happening in this season is interesting to me at all, which is disappointing because I was hoping they'd come back stronger this year.

I'm on the ledge. I was ready to bail, then they revealed Gangsterland. That seems to be a nothingburger. Just a plot device to move the boring overarching story along.

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Augustus

Augustus 3061

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52 minutes ago, RPM said:

I'm on the ledge. I was ready to bail, then they revealed Gangsterland. That seems to be a nothingburger. Just a plot device to move the boring overarching story along.

The one compliment that I will give them is that I did laugh out loud when Maeve realized that although they were underground, they were still immersed in the game.  I cracked up when she answered Pinkman's question as to what game/setting it was.  "Westworld Massacre."

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sidis

sidis 9828

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11 hours ago, Augustus said:

Little help over here

assuming you watched last night's episode...see below.

Spoiler

yet another temporal mind fuck from the show...though a bit less ridiculous as some of the previous ones.  everything that has happened in this season is actually happening a generation forward in time relative to what we were thinking (with the exception of maybe the prologue at hoover dam).  everything caleb has experienced is a simulation of what happened to him before but charlotte has used her flies to basically infect most humans in the world to basically do what she says through her acoustic control device...starting with visitors to the park but also through more vicious means such as we saw from the senator/senator's wife a couple of episodes back.  caleb's experience was just going back through what ultimately happened over and over and over again because charlotte is using it as a baseline for a character development for the entertainment and amusement of the former hosts (an inverse of original westworld).  she had also created a pseudo william to go around doing bad shit for her and now we know, she's using some sort of cryo technology to keep real william alive and mentally torture him with this reversal of fortunes.

but the simulation is what actually happened and maeve did actually blow herself up in the middle of nowhere decades before at the end of the line of the story that was being told in caleb's mind (the simulation).  however, everything we've seen from evan rachel wood is in this new, charlotte controlled world that is ~30-40 years down the road from all that happening.  she is basically in a "npc" loop given the rigidity of her and her roomate's daily life (ironic given original westworld).  mardsen is about to unintentionally shake her out of that somehow i'm assuming.  more importantly, bernard is also in the present timeline.  he has hooked up with a tribe of humans that are presumably not infected by charlotte's control that are effectively rebels hiding in the desert.  the leader of which appears to me to be caleb's daughter that we met through the simulation and that, in real life, escaped.  bernard, who had been basically stuck for decades, has had a premonition on how to undo charlotte's mind control world and obviously, the first step was to link up with the rebels and uncover maeve from being buried after she blew everything the fuck up to save caleb (which we saw in caleb's simulation experience of what actually happened).  bernard and the rebels are going to turn on maeve...the only weapon capable of giving the free human rebels a chance against charlotte.

 

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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2446

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6 hours ago, sidis said:

assuming you watched last night's episode...see below.

  Hide contents

yet another temporal mind fuck from the show...though a bit less ridiculous as some of the previous ones.  everything that has happened in this season is actually happening a generation forward in time relative to what we were thinking (with the exception of maybe the prologue at hoover dam).  everything caleb has experienced is a simulation of what happened to him before but charlotte has used her flies to basically infect most humans in the world to basically do what she says through her acoustic control device...starting with visitors to the park but also through more vicious means such as we saw from the senator/senator's wife a couple of episodes back.  caleb's experience was just going back through what ultimately happened over and over and over again because charlotte is using it as a baseline for a character development for the entertainment and amusement of the former hosts (an inverse of original westworld).  she had also created a pseudo william to go around doing bad shit for her and now we know, she's using some sort of cryo technology to keep real william alive and mentally torture him with this reversal of fortunes.

but the simulation is what actually happened and maeve did actually blow herself up in the middle of nowhere decades before at the end of the line of the story that was being told in caleb's mind (the simulation).  however, everything we've seen from evan rachel wood is in this new, charlotte controlled world that is ~30-40 years down the road from all that happening.  she is basically in a "npc" loop given the rigidity of her and her roomate's daily life (ironic given original westworld).  mardsen is about to unintentionally shake her out of that somehow i'm assuming.  more importantly, bernard is also in the present timeline.  he has hooked up with a tribe of humans that are presumably not infected by charlotte's control that are effectively rebels hiding in the desert.  the leader of which appears to me to be caleb's daughter that we met through the simulation and that, in real life, escaped.  bernard, who had been basically stuck for decades, has had a premonition on how to undo charlotte's mind control world and obviously, the first step was to link up with the rebels and uncover maeve from being buried after she blew everything the fuck up to save caleb (which we saw in caleb's simulation experience of what actually happened).  bernard and the rebels are going to turn on maeve...the only weapon capable of giving the free human rebels a chance against charlotte.

 

I'm not going to bother spoiler tags since episode came out. I think they are showing a bunch of stuff 7 years after massacre that don't involve Pinkman (senator, AG storming in, Caleb's daughter and wife escaping, etc.).  So not all simulation, but, yeah, it leads into a storytelling "mesh" with the simulation to assimilate robot Pinkman.  I still wonder if Kristina/Dolores is in a simulation, as opposed to a "park" or "loop".  I think she's a simulation writing scripts for the humans which are beamed out on the tower in the real world, directing them where to go.  Some dude figured out how to crash it and confront her in the simulation a few episodes back.  Perhaps its Bernard et al trying to "unlock" her somehow.  If she was in the real world, I'd presume she'd know what that tower was that she keeps painting given the size of it.

Also - Hale is essentially Wyatt version of Dolores, right?  I can't recall exactly what happened last year after the wreck killed the Hale family and she went completely rogue.  But she's Dolores, ultimately.  

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sidis

sidis 9828

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5 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I'm not going to bother spoiler tags since episode came out. I think they are showing a bunch of stuff 7 years after massacre that don't involve Pinkman (senator, AG storming in, Caleb's daughter and wife escaping, etc.).  So not all simulation, but, yeah, it leads into a storytelling "mesh" with the simulation to assimilate robot Pinkman.  I still wonder if Kristina/Dolores is in a simulation, as opposed to a "park" or "loop".  I think she's a simulation writing scripts for the humans which are beamed out on the tower in the real world, directing them where to go.  Some dude figured out how to crash it and confront her in the simulation a few episodes back.  Perhaps its Bernard et al trying to "unlock" her somehow.  If she was in the real world, I'd presume she'd know what that tower was that she keeps painting given the size of it.

Also - Hale is essentially Wyatt version of Dolores, right?  I can't recall exactly what happened last year after the wreck killed the Hale family and she went completely rogue.  But she's Dolores, ultimately.  

On the notion that Delores is in a simulation vs a loop, it certainly is a possibility and dependent on the whims of the writers’ room and what they had for lunch it would seem…but the reason I was leaning away from that was what Kristina was saying about her last memory being the meal with her family and the flies on the food and then waking up. Just didn’t strike me as plausible or “necessary” in a simulation but who knows, just as likely an explanation.  The best argument I could see for it being a simulation is that Delores’s drawing of the spirally Charlotte palace reigning over the world seemed to be premonition and predictive…like it didn’t actually exist yet even though it is very prominent in the “present” timeline.

But I do agree that the guy killing himself is an inverse of the hosts becoming self aware in the first season. 

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Js1

Js1 85341

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8 hours ago, sidis said:

On the notion that Delores is in a simulation vs a loop, it certainly is a possibility and dependent on the whims of the writers’ room and what they had for lunch it would seem…but the reason I was leaning away from that was what Kristina was saying about her last memory being the meal with her family and the flies on the food and then waking up. Just didn’t strike me as plausible or “necessary” in a simulation but who knows, just as likely an explanation.  The best argument I could see for it being a simulation is that Delores’s drawing of the spirally Charlotte palace reigning over the world seemed to be premonition and predictive…like it didn’t actually exist yet even though it is very prominent in the “present” timeline.

But I do agree that the guy killing himself is an inverse of the hosts becoming self aware in the first season. 

I think Christina  is a host placed in FutureWorld by Charlores, writing narratives for the mind-controlled guests.  She has no idea, but Teddy will somehow break her out of the host programming.  I think Maya (her roommate) is a fly-controlled guest who is having flashes of her pre-fly (parents first, then her, once Charlores realized that the kids take to it better after failed experiments with the adults). 

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Js1

Js1 85341

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19 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Even with the thorough explanations here I still don’t know what’s going on and I’m not sure I care. Who are the good guys? Bernard?

Isn't Bernard always the good guy? 

Bernard, Maeve, Teddy

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sidis

sidis 9828

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8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I think Christina  is a host placed in FutureWorld by Charlores, writing narratives for the mind-controlled guests.  She has no idea, but Teddy will somehow break her out of the host programming.  I think Maya (her roommate) is a fly-controlled guest who is having flashes of her pre-fly (parents first, then her, once Charlores realized that the kids take to it better after failed experiments with the adults). 

You’re right. Brain fart on the name. I meant Maya. 

23 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Even with the thorough explanations here I still don’t know what’s going on and I’m not sure I care. Who are the good guys? Bernard?

Depends on your perspective. 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11763

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22 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I'm not going to bother spoiler tags since episode came out. I think they are showing a bunch of stuff 7 years after massacre that don't involve Pinkman (senator, AG storming in, Caleb's daughter and wife escaping, etc.).  So not all simulation, but, yeah, it leads into a storytelling "mesh" with the simulation to assimilate robot Pinkman.  I still wonder if Kristina/Dolores is in a simulation, as opposed to a "park" or "loop".  I think she's a simulation writing scripts for the humans which are beamed out on the tower in the real world, directing them where to go.  Some dude figured out how to crash it and confront her in the simulation a few episodes back.  Perhaps its Bernard et al trying to "unlock" her somehow.  If she was in the real world, I'd presume she'd know what that tower was that she keeps painting given the size of it.

Also - Hale is essentially Wyatt version of Dolores, right?  I can't recall exactly what happened last year after the wreck killed the Hale family and she went completely rogue.  But she's Dolores, ultimately.  

As @sidis already pointed out. the first 2 episodes were a mental review of Caleb's memories from the point where he and Maeve blew up the mainframe host to 7 years after that point.   

However, the timeline as shown by Bernard recovering Maeve underneath the "blasting area" sign (and telling the rebel woman that there is a body down there but its NOT HER FATHER'S -that Caleb survived the blast) tells you A) shes  Frankie- Calebs daughter and B) based on the actress looking to be late 20s maybe early 30s That its been around 30-35 or so years after Westworld exploded.   which matches exactly with Bernard waking up with decades of dust on him. 

as for the Delores Timeframe- thats tricky.  *IF* shes in the real world and not a computer simulation her timeline is clearly before the Bernard timeline.   Shes living in NYC (shes been filmed walking on the old elevated train tracks that have been made into an Urban Park), clearly before the Controlling tower has been installed. 

The controlling tower that we know she was dreaming about is shown at the end of Ep 4 has been built and sitting on top of what I believe was Liberty Island.  she clearly would have seen that at some point if it already existed.  so thats putting her timeline anywhere from 1 year-10 years after Westworld exploded.    I say that because we know Charlotte captured Caleb year 7 and the flies obviously infected most of the world year 7,8 maybe 9. when Charlotte took over all their minds.  and it probably took her 10 more years to build the controlling infrastructure (incl the main tower)

If Delores is in a simulation, then her timeline could literally be anytime. 

My best guess is Delores is real, and shes in the timeline just a year or 3 after Caleb was captured.   and everyone around her are real people starting to be controlled by Charlotte.  She and Teddy (Marsden) are about to wake up to the fact that they are the simulants and that all the people are being controlled.

 

but overall this season is confusing as shit- especially since it took just shy of 4 hours of storytelling to give us the base timelines. 

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sidis

sidis 9828

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48 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

As @sidis already pointed out. the first 2 episodes were a mental review of Caleb's memories from the point where he and Maeve blew up the mainframe host to 7 years after that point.   

However, the timeline as shown by Bernard recovering Maeve underneath the "blasting area" sign (and telling the rebel woman that there is a body down there but its NOT HER FATHER'S -that Caleb survived the blast) tells you A) shes  Frankie- Calebs daughter and B) based on the actress looking to be late 20s maybe early 30s That its been around 30-35 or so years after Westworld exploded.   which matches exactly with Bernard waking up with decades of dust on him. 

as for the Delores Timeframe- thats tricky.  *IF* shes in the real world and not a computer simulation her timeline is clearly before the Bernard timeline.   Shes living in NYC (shes been filmed walking on the old elevated train tracks that have been made into an Urban Park), clearly before the Controlling tower has been installed. 

The controlling tower that we know she was dreaming about is shown at the end of Ep 4 has been built and sitting on top of what I believe was Liberty Island.  she clearly would have seen that at some point if it already existed.  so thats putting her timeline anywhere from 1 year-10 years after Westworld exploded.    I say that because we know Charlotte captured Caleb year 7 and the flies obviously infected most of the world year 7,8 maybe 9. when Charlotte took over all their minds.  and it probably took her 10 more years to build the controlling infrastructure (incl the main tower)

If Delores is in a simulation, then her timeline could literally be anytime. 

My best guess is Delores is real, and shes in the timeline just a year or 3 after Caleb was captured.   and everyone around her are real people starting to be controlled by Charlotte.  She and Teddy (Marsden) are about to wake up to the fact that they are the simulants and that all the people are being controlled.

 

but overall this season is confusing as shit- especially since it took just shy of 4 hours of storytelling to give us the base timelines. 

If you’re best guess is right regarding Delores’s timeline, then I won’t be surprised that if Delores/Teddy does something in her timeline that enables Bernard to arrive at the insight he reached when he saw all the requisite steps necessary to stop Charlotte he talked about.   
 

but again, we don’t know yet if her drawing is a premonition in terms of the timeline…or if it something she is “remembering” in her subconscious despite Charlotte Inc either trapping her in a loop or a simulation. That would be somewhat parallel to her achieving a higher memory state in season one. 

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HouTex

HouTex 1867

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Posted

I loved season 1 and made it through seasons 2 and 3 but was disappointed with both seasons.  I’ve been watching season 4 but it’s just not doing it for me.  I’ve really just been hoping for more naked shots of Dolores and Maeve but I suspect that’s over.  I may try to pick it back up in a binge watch when the season is over.  

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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2446

Posted
Posted (edited)

Halfway through this episode:

Spoiler

Chrissy/Dolores is “ascended”

Asian dude is a plant of some kind otherwise why not headshot Ed Harris   

Both probably shown right or wrong by end of episode. 
 

Either way, they owe Matrix royalties. 

Edited by A-Tex Devil
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LCHorn

LCHorn 2620

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26 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

What was Stubbs doing for 23 years?

Eating, mostly.  He’s the tubby Hemsworth and I like to think the producers have fun with it by looking for ways to insert scenes of him eating. 
 

I want to know where Teddy has been;  I thought he had gone to the Valley Beyond but the Westworld wiki indicates that Dolores had possession of his control unit when she left the park.  

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