Musk: American workers are lazy. Chinese workers are awesome.

[fattyflattie 4638]

6 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Your posts back to back made me laugh. It’s very easy to tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps while refusing to recognize that there’s a finite limit on “good” jobs.

The vast majority of people don’t deserve a corner office.  They think they do, but their performance, dedication, and sacrifice tells the real story. The thing is, that corner office is in a floor with dozens to hundreds of high earners.  Hard eyes to the guy in the corner who hasn’t eaten supper with his kids in 6 weeks while they sneak off to Jr’s baseball practice a half hour early each day. It’s difficult to hit that Saturday AM run thru the reports when your on the mound at coaches pitch. 
 

also, don’t know where you’re located, but my labor hands ctc to me is 58.17/hr for the locals after truck pay. They are currently holding shovels down because if I actually ask them to work, they’ll have the steward out here shutting down my job.  So I bring a bunch of Houston guys that cost me $69/hr because I have to get them a hotel.  With 50/50 on hire/layoffs, it makes it difficult. I can’t imagine what a plumber help up here cost, but it’s going to be a lot more than $30. 

[Captainant 27722]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

also, don’t know where you’re located, but my labor hands ctc to me is 58.17/hr for the locals after truck pay. They are currently holding shovels down because if I actually ask them to work, they’ll have the steward out here shutting down my job.  So I bring a bunch of Houston guys that cost me $69/hr because I have to get them a hotel.  With 50/50 on hire/layoffs, it makes it difficult. I can’t imagine what a plumber help up here cost, but it’s going to be a lot more than $30. 

I'm curious, are you paying that rate to people or to the middleman labor vendor? Because I fucking doubt that labor is getting $69/hr and I'd bet you that the lions share of that money is going to the labor matchmaker

[fattyflattie 4638]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'm curious, are you paying that rate to people or to the middleman labor vendor? Because I fucking doubt that labor is getting $69/hr and I'd bet you that the lions share of that money is going to the labor matchmaker

It’s going to their union dues, in large part. 33/hr plus 75/day for truck and hotel in certain radius.  Then the union dues on top.  I went thru certified payroll this AM, so that number is as accurate as last Friday. 
eta: to answer your question, I believe it is paid right to them and they have to pay to keep their books or face some type of consequence.  But it’s delivered to me in that breakdown.  Wage/perdiem/truck pay/cell pay/dues. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by fattyflattie

[TXSG8R 3362]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

The vast majority of people don’t deserve a corner office.  They think they do, but their performance, dedication, and sacrifice tells the real story. The thing is, that corner office is in a floor with dozens to hundreds of high earners.  Hard eyes to the guy in the corner who hasn’t eaten supper with his kids in 6 weeks while they sneak off to Jr’s baseball practice a half hour early each day. It’s difficult to hit that Saturday AM run thru the reports when your on the mound at coaches pitch. 
 

also, don’t know where you’re located, but my labor hands ctc to me is 58.17/hr for the locals after truck pay. They are currently holding shovels down because if I actually ask them to work, they’ll have the steward out here shutting down my job.  So I bring a bunch of Houston guys that cost me $69/hr because I have to get them a hotel.  With 50/50 on hire/layoffs, it makes it difficult. I can’t imagine what a plumber help up here cost, but it’s going to be a lot more than $30. 

Agreed, many people are also not capable of working that corner office job, be it lack of skills, cognitive ability, etc. The low wage stick for progression is a fallacy, which is all the more reason to pay lower level jobs a living wage. $3/hour wouldn’t be any more of an incentive than $9 is when you recognize that there are only x number of jobs that will pay that corner office money. At some point people have to work the jobs that are available, and if those jobs don’t pay a living wage, the system is broken. 

Im sure the trades in metro areas pay better, it doesn’t change the reality of this area, which I’m sure matches the reality of many smaller areas in the state. The local electrician can choose to go to a metro area to make more money, but wash all of that gain away in the cost of living or travel deltas. It also starves this smaller area of a skilled trade. The larger point is this goes well beyond your $9 sandwich maker. Skilled labor is facing many of the same issues and the notion that it’s all work effort, entitlement, etc is a lie.

[DigglerontheHoof 21209]

28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

The vast majority of people don’t deserve a corner office.  They think they do, but their performance, dedication, and sacrifice tells the real story. The thing is, that corner office is in a floor with dozens to hundreds of high earners.  Hard eyes to the guy in the corner who hasn’t eaten supper with his kids in 6 weeks while they sneak off to Jr’s baseball practice a half hour early each day. It’s difficult to hit that Saturday AM run thru the reports when your on the mound at coaches pitch. 
 

also, don’t know where you’re located, but my labor hands ctc to me is 58.17/hr for the locals after truck pay. They are currently holding shovels down because if I actually ask them to work, they’ll have the steward out here shutting down my job.  So I bring a bunch of Houston guys that cost me $69/hr because I have to get them a hotel.  With 50/50 on hire/layoffs, it makes it difficult. I can’t imagine what a plumber help up here cost, but it’s going to be a lot more than $30. 

The vast majority of people currently in a corner office don't deserve to be there but they think they do. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Agreed, many people are also not capable of working that corner office job, be it lack of skills, cognitive ability, etc. The low wage stick for progression is a fallacy, which is all the more reason to pay lower level jobs a living wage. $3/hour wouldn’t be any more of an incentive than $9 is when you recognize that there are only x number of jobs that will pay that corner office money. At some point people have to work the jobs that are available, and if those jobs don’t pay a living wage, the system is broken. 

Im sure the trades in metro areas pay better, it doesn’t change the reality of this area, which I’m sure matches the reality of many smaller areas in the state. The local electrician can choose to go to a metro area to make more money, but wash all of that gain away in the cost of living or travel deltas. It also starves this smaller area of a skilled trade. The larger point is this goes well beyond your $9 sandwich maker. Skilled labor is facing many of the same issues and the notion that it’s all work effort, entitlement, etc is a lie.

I agree. I just think it’s funny sometimes the animosity some have for the people at the top. I reported directly to our president. If I email him at 0100 after working on something, he’ll call me immediately as he received it while at his computer. Does it suck we’re both up that late for work, absolutely. Do I get to participate in my kids’ sports (when home), at least 10x as much as he does.  I would love to have his salary and rsu package, but I’m not half as smart. I’m dedicated but not like him, etc. I get an up close look at how the money is earned in those spots, it’s not for everyone. It’s not for the cast majority, even if they had the ability, tbh. 
 

And while it’s cool to hate corps, we need to keep in mind most Americans wouldn’t have a dollar to retire without their 401ks. Which are funded by the performance of these corps.  At a minimum they are a necessary evil. 

[rantanamo 143]

Man basically advocates slave labor and the surly turns it into,I was a better near slave than you thread.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

34 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I agree. I just think it’s funny sometimes the animosity some have for the people at the top. I reported directly to our president. If I email him at 0100 after working on something, he’ll call me immediately as he received it while at his computer. Does it suck we’re both up that late for work, absolutely. Do I get to participate in my kids’ sports (when home), at least 10x as much as he does.  I would love to have his salary and rsu package, but I’m not half as smart. I’m dedicated but not like him, etc. I get an up close look at how the money is earned in those spots, it’s not for everyone. It’s not for the cast majority, even if they had the ability, tbh. 
 

And while it’s cool to hate corps, we need to keep in mind most Americans wouldn’t have a dollar to retire without their 401ks. Which are funded by the performance of these corps.  At a minimum they are a necessary evil. 

I think people have a bigger problem with the scaling for pay of people at the top versus people at the bottom. That guy isn’t anymore dedicated than the lady that cleans the floors for 8 hours and then goes to work her second job just to make ends meet. There’s certainly value that the executive brings to the company over the cleaning lady that deserves more compensation, but many aren’t worth anywhere near the pay they are receiving. Especially when that pay is coming at the expense of a living wage for the hundreds or thousands of workers that actually make the widgets for that company. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. There’s a lot of hogs coming out of the other side of covid. 

[Brisketexan 105203]

7 minutes ago, RatJuul said:

I enjoyed reading this because the focus was on what we can control and how we choose to think and behave. Very attitudinal and it all starts there.

Let me translate this for you: "We can't decide what happens above our level, that's for the Master to decide.  So don't worry your head about what the Master controls.  You worry about what YOU can control, and do your best to [pick cotton, pick tobacco, do slave shit]."

This is literally the OPPOSITE of what labor should do.  Labor should take its agency in the entire process.  Elon can't make Teslas without aluminum and lithium supplies.  And he can't make them without willing labor supply.  The economy isn't just something that the Masters decide on, and the rest of us just take orders, put our head down, and break even more rocks for them.  Everyone involved in the economy has agency and power.  In fact, the only way to be TRULY powerless is to refuse to exercise your power.

I'm not advocating a great workers' uprising -- I've advocated balance throughout this discussion and throughout my posting history on this sort of thing.  And balance requires that workers exercise their agency in the process.  It requires that management do the same.  And it requires that they interact with each other in good faith.  Failure of any one of those legs, and the system is in the shit.

[Vegas64 677]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

I think people have a bigger problem with the scaling for pay of people at the top versus people at the bottom. That guy isn’t anymore dedicated than the lady that cleans the floors for 8 hours and then goes to work her second job just to make ends meet. There’s certainly value that the executive brings to the company over the cleaning lady that deserves more compensation, but many aren’t worth anywhere near the pay they are receiving. Especially when that pay is coming at the expense of a living wage for the hundreds or thousands of workers that actually make the widgets for that company. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. There’s a lot of hogs coming out of the other side of covid. 

Actually, since you mentioned Covid, I think a lot of our early assumptions were wrong with how the pandemic played out and how it affected business. I haven't seen the actuals, but it's widely held and accept that "pandemic stocks" who were riding high like Zoom and Peloton and Netflix other Tech companies, they have all given back their pandemic gains and are at or below pre-pandemic levels. We thought the pandemic would hurt the worker so we supported businesses with PPP and relief packages for people, but it's really only "post-covid" I think the effects will be felt and we are starting to see it now. IOW, the hogs getting slaughtered or about to be slaughtered are workers who work for companies getting slaughtered in the market.

[Vegas64 677]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I am not sure what the solution is, but I think the industry is going to have to come back to more affordable places first, and then the young labor will follow. 

Another chicken or egg thing is that companies can really only thrive where they have access to smart, young (read: cheaper) people. That usually means you need a pipeline from a prestigious university in or nearby.

[Captainant 27722]

14 minutes ago, RatJuul said:

Hey man, no harm no foul. That's why I asked if you wanted me to share or not, I don't want to presume or offend you. Good luck on your journey, peace be with you. Sounds like you need it.

Lol dude, you need to dial back the religious paternalistic derision. I'm not offended by mentioning the bible, I just think it's outrageous for a known shitposter to all of sudden try a face turn like you just got back from jesus camp and now you're holier than thou. The bible has many wonderful lessons in it, and many ideas that are also better left to history - at least in the current prevailing interpretation of it. The bible wasn't meant to be weaponized to tell exploited labor to suck it up. We weren't put on this earth to kowtow to whoever can demagogue the best and wave a bible around.

Get a better argument, don't lean on your religion to prop up your lack of original thought.

[TXSG8R 3362]

5 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Actually, since you mentioned Covid, I think a lot of our early assumptions were wrong with how the pandemic played out and how it affected business. I haven't seen the actuals, but it's widely held and accept that "pandemic stocks" who were riding high like Zoom and Peloton and Netflix other Tech companies, they have all given back their pandemic gains and are at or below pre-pandemic levels. We thought the pandemic would hurt the worker so we supported businesses with PPP and relief packages for people, but it's really only "post-covid" I think the effects will be felt and we are starting to see it now. IOW, the hogs getting slaughtered or about to be slaughtered are workers who work for companies getting slaughtered in the market.

Also one of the contradictions of the corner office guys. Company tanks, the executive takes his golden parachute and lands somewhere else with a massively inflated salary while the workers have to start over from scratch, regardless of their work ethic, hustle, etc. The game is definitely tilted to favor the wealthy, that’s not a hot take, but the tilt is getting worse and at some point the game breaks. 

[Royalfan5 2354]

18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The finite limit on good jobs is a big part of this, and frankly, I think it’s being exacerbated by the decline of mid size towns and rural localities.   All the younger generations want to live in the cities, but there aren’t enough good jobs in the cities and the huge influx of people drives up rents / cost of living and reduces their power in the labor market.

There’s a chicken and egg phenomenon there, of course - did the small towns die and that’s why the young people moved to the big cities, or did the young people moving to the big cities make the small towns die?  I think it’s some of both.  It’s not just an American thing, either.  My wife is from Europe, and I see the same thing there.

All those tales from days gone by about having the good job at the steel mill that supported the whole family for life with a high school education - those people weren’t living in Manhattan or Dallas or Miami or Southern California.  Now, I’m not sure most struggling younger generations would  be willing to move out of the cities, and even if they were, what industry still exists in the smaller towns?  You can make money in the Permian Basin or a few other places in the sticks if you work in the oil industry, I guess.  And I guess Bentonville, Arkansas probably still has money and opportunities for people to profit from that.  But where else?

I am not sure what the solution is, but I think the industry is going to have to come back to more affordable places first, and then the young labor will follow.  They’re not going to move to the sticks of their own volition unless the economics make it clearly too hard to pass up vs. struggling in the metropolis. But I do think part of the solution is ultimately going to have to involve migration.   Not everyone can live in the cities and have the cities remain affordable for the average joe.

For people moving back to rural areas, housing is still going to be an issue, as anything worth a shit is occupied, and everything else has been methed out and or pushed in, and nobody that isn't held there by family is going to want to put a house up unless they are close enough to a bigger employment hub to guarantee some semblance of resale value. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

17 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The finite limit on good jobs is a big part of this, and frankly, I think it’s being exacerbated by the decline of mid size towns and rural localities.   All the younger generations want to live in the cities, but there aren’t enough good jobs in the cities and the huge influx of people drives up rents / cost of living and reduces their power in the labor market.

There’s a chicken and egg phenomenon there, of course - did the small towns die and that’s why the young people moved to the big cities, or did the young people moving to the big cities make the small towns die?  I think it’s some of both.  It’s not just an American thing, either.  My wife is from Europe, and I see the same thing there.

All those tales from days gone by about having the good job at the steel mill that supported the whole family for life with a high school education - those people weren’t living in Manhattan or Dallas or Miami or Southern California.  Now, I’m not sure most struggling younger generations would  be willing to move out of the cities, and even if they were, what industry still exists in the smaller towns?  You can make money in the Permian Basin or a few other places in the sticks if you work in the oil industry, I guess.  And I guess Bentonville, Arkansas probably still has money and opportunities for people to profit from that.  But where else?

I am not sure what the solution is, but I think the industry is going to have to come back to more affordable places first, and then the young labor will follow.  They’re not going to move to the sticks of their own volition unless the economics make it clearly too hard to pass up vs. struggling in the metropolis. But I do think part of the solution is ultimately going to have to involve migration.   Not everyone can live in the cities and have the cities remain affordable for the average joe.

I think the goal posts on what a good job is has moved so much it’s probably not even in the stadium parking lot. Single income families are largely non existent these days, even with the breadwinner making 6 figures. A worker used to be able to have a “good” job that paid enough to buy a house, raise multiple kids, and have a pension when they retired, all on one income.  Multi income families can now barely cover the cost of living in many areas, and most have very little in the way of benefits and are expected to save on their own for retirement. Meanwhile, Bezos is using fuck around money to take joyrides into space after his wife took more money in a divorce than she can give away. There isn’t enough work ethic or hustle bullshit in the world to justify that kind of wealth.

[Celery Man 20991]

I think young people don't want to stay in the small towns regardless, but it is absolutely a jobs thing. I do think the mass exodus to the cities has spilled over to smaller places like Bentonville, Boise, Charleston, etc. Salt Lake, RTP

 

Has the dust settled on employers letting employees go remote and then dealing with... San Diego payscale employees becoming neighbors with the people on the Bentonville scale?

[Vegas64 677]

6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think young people don't want to stay in the small towns regardless, but it is absolutely a jobs thing. I do think the mass exodus to the cities has spilled over to smaller places like Bentonville, Boise, Charleston, etc. Salt Lake, RTP

 

Has the dust settled on employers letting employees go remote and then dealing with... San Diego payscale employees becoming neighbors with the people on the Bentonville scale?

No. The first big domino I guess you could say was AirBnB's announcement they would honor the payscale no matter the area. It was a pretty big newsmaker and deal. Salesforce has announced they are listing jobs not by location but by timezone with the implication being, work wherever you want as long as you are available these consecutive 8 hours in this time zone. But who knows on the pay rate. So short answer the dust hasn't settled and I don't think it will for a while. Especially since we are about to enter into less hiring and hiring freezes, I fear, it won't be a priority.

[AeroHorn 754]

I think Musk's comment was more an observation than a wish that we all become working robots. 

Everything else being the same, you have country/company X where people are like ants/bees constantly working in a ruthlessly efficient system, and you have country/company Y where people do their little farming/reading and are happy. I want to live in Y because it has been proven many times that stuff doesn't make you happy and there are many poor communities even now where the people's happiness/contentment is higher than those in materially advanced ones.

But the two countries are not in isolation. X could dominate Y in the future. This is the same dilemma I have regarding defense spending and nuclear arms. I very much don't want to develop nuclear weapons or spend a lot on defense. But imagine the dynamics if one of India or Pakistan didn't have nuclear weapons or if Palestine had nuclear weapons to match Israel's. The moral choice and its varying adherence is the human's achievement and downfall.

Musk, possessing a mind that is more a calculator than a perception device, did the simple math and extrapolated. In his mind, he is giving more of a helpful pointer to US workers than demanding a match to Chinese behavior. It's just that what he thinks is a good example is the wrong one.

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

7 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

Musk, possessing a mind that is more a calculator than a perception device, did the simple math and extrapolated. In his mind, he is giving more of a helpful pointer to US workers than demanding a match to Chinese behavior. It's just that what he thinks is a good example is the wrong one.

 

 

Yeah, he's probably recalculating and coming to the conclusion that he should have said American workers should be more like the workers at his families diamond mines in africa.

 

Somebody on twitter tell mush that he's welcome to fuck right off and move Space X and Tesla to china if the workers there are so much better. In a few years, he can get back to us and let us know how that has worked out for him.

 

[hobbes2702 13052]

1 hour ago, rantanamo said:

Man basically advocates slave labor and the surly turns it into,I was a better near slave than you thread.  

[crash_davis 23114]

I worked my ass off so that my CEO could get his $40M salary and $300M stock options! 

I think that's the gist of the one of the arguments.

Edited May 12, 2022 by crash_davis

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

 

Your posts back to back made me laugh. It’s very easy to tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps while refusing to recognize that there’s a finite limit on “good” jobs. You choose instead to display a textbook example of cognitive dissonance.  You might think low wages are a stick that will force people to climb the ladder, but the reality is there’s only so much room at each rung, and that we need to pay living wages even to the people at the bottom. 

Artificially raising wages is working, eh?

Low rung jobs aren't there to support a family.  That's a fucked up pipe dream that somebody should instantly get higher wages with basic, even menial skills required.

"Living wages" is a dog whistle for "pay me more for not doing jack shit."

[BabaYaga 15304]

5 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I was on a work call just yesterday where everyone was asking "what is the next big thing? what is the next big disruption?"

Still true today, it is all ball bearings.
 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

I think the goal posts on what a good job is has moved so much it’s probably not even in the stadium parking lot. Single income families are largely non existent these days, even with the breadwinner making 6 figures. A worker used to be able to have a “good” job that paid enough to buy a house, raise multiple kids, and have a pension when they retired, all on one income.  Multi income families can now barely cover the cost of living in many areas, and most have very little in the way of benefits and are expected to save on their own for retirement. Meanwhile, Bezos is using fuck around money to take joyrides into space after his wife took more money in a divorce than she can give away. There isn’t enough work ethic or hustle bullshit in the world to justify that kind of wealth.

If you can't make a living on 6 figure salary, you truly do need some serious life lessons on spending and difference between needs/ wants.

Gotdammit life is so hard, ain't it?   Can't raise a fucking family on $100k/ year?    SMDH.

Edited May 12, 2022 by slorch

[BabaYaga 15304]

10 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

I worked my ass off so that my CEO could get his $40M salary and $300M stock options! 

I think that's the gist of the one of the arguments.

Now do head coaches

[crash_davis 23114]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Now do head coaches

i like where your head is but with NIL, some players are making more than their position coaches.

[956 Worldwide 34746]

22 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

I think hidden in Elon’s rant is that what he really means is that employees no longer put up with corporate abuse like in the past. Plenty are willing to work hard but the expectation is that they share in the rewards. He wants the good old days when you could treat everyone like shit and they’d still work for you for 20 years while being satisfied with a 3% annual raise.

I agree with you except it’s not really hidden at all. 

[RomaVicta 29965]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:34 AM, Brothahorn said:

With regards to the young vs old debate: There have always Americans who were lazy/did just enough to get by. Society just wasn't as accepting of it so much.

Yeah, fuck the whole liberty thing.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

7 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

After they BUY the truck themselves (often).....themz not cheap

Unless you win one in an arm wrestling competition.

[Celery Man 20991]

10 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Unless you win one in an arm wrestling competition.

Iirc custody of his son was also on the line in this arm wrestling match.

 

[FartingMonk 3608]

I've made 6 figures every year for probably the last 10 years.  I don't complain about the pay.  I don't complain about the work.  I have a problem with the mindset the employer can hang over your head that you would get fired if you don't answer the phone on your days off and drop everything at once.  

When I interviewed with my current company I specifically asked about it.  I told them I don't mind overtime.  If you give me advanced notice I'm usually good with it.  Hell sometimes even last minute stuff because it's a one off.  I'm ok with it.  But when you start thinking you can call me anytime and have me come in and hang the threat of canning me.  That is where I draw the line.  The guys interviewing me said holy shit.  Nah we won't do that and they have been pretty good about it.  My 2nd week I get a random email from my boss and he said hey we need you to help with some testing Sunday.  I said hey it's Thursday.  Easter is Sunday and I have plans is that ok?  He said sure thing and that was that.  My last company would have said  tough shit.  You're working anyways.

[closetohumping 17456]

Millennials have a dom perignon appetite on a  veuve cliquot budget.  

[FartingMonk 3608]

Let me get on my soapbox for you work from home motherfuckers.  No do not put up a fucking away message on your auto-reply that you are working from home so it may take a few hours to return an email or return a phone call.  Cunts like you do not understand the concept of working from fucking home and that's why everyone has to go back.  Thanks for ruining it motherfucker

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

The biggest problem is entitled millennials always wanting more money, not the fact that wages have basically stagnated for 30 years and inflation hasn’t so everything costs more. Avocado toast!  

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

If you can't make a living on 6 figure salary, you truly do need some serious life lessons on spending and difference between needs/ wants.

Gotdammit life is so hard, ain't it?   Can't raise a fucking family on $100k/ year?    SMDH.

Read it again, the point was about single income families and comparing it to the good ole days standard of living. 100k for a family of 4 is good enough but not great living in many areas of the country, and might be scraping by in some of the bigger metros. Scoff all you want, but I can count on one hand the number of customers we have with a single income, and 90+% of the time those are religious choices (home schooling primarily), not being content with the money daddy is bringing home. 
 

Almost all our work is Bell county. Most of the homes we do are 2500 sq ft on the low end to 5k on the top end. Nothing stupid, we aren’t talking Italian marble and gold plated toilets. Paying for 2-3 kids college, healthy retirement, etc eats 100k up real quick, which is why most families have multiple incomes.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

I think the goal posts on what a good job is has moved so much it’s probably not even in the stadium parking lot. Single income families are largely non existent these days, even with the breadwinner making 6 figures. A worker used to be able to have a “good” job that paid enough to buy a house, raise multiple kids, and have a pension when they retired, all on one income.  Multi income families can now barely cover the cost of living in many areas, and most have very little in the way of benefits and are expected to save on their own for retirement. Meanwhile, Bezos is using fuck around money to take joyrides into space after his wife took more money in a divorce than she can give away. There isn’t enough work ethic or hustle bullshit in the world to justify that kind of wealth.

OK since you ignored what YOU posted, here it is again.

My point stands, the lack of single income families ain't because of low wages.  It's because people spend way the fuck too much, which admittedly, is their prerogative; but that doesn't allow the doom & gloomers like yourself the ammo to say it's because people cannot live on 100k a year.

If you can't make it on 100k/year, you suck with money.  I don't care who you are.

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:13 PM, slorch said:

lotsa folks are looking for 35 hours and benefits.  That's tough to do as an employer.

Not really.  The C-suite may have to give up some of their multi-million dollar compensation, but they should just work harder.

[Guest]

Just now, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not really.  The C-suite may have to give up some of their multi-million dollar compensation, but they should just work harder.

LOLz.  Keep dreaming...and crying.  If you want c-suite money and it's so easy, then you would be there.

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

13 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

All for a job that would have just involved flipping a switch and turning a few valves before telling the mechanic to get after it during the time where we had so called better worker protections.

Someone has never heard of the Piper Alpha.  There are reasons all these safeguards are now so commonplace.  It’s because people like to take shortcuts and aren’t as clever as they think they are.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

If you can't make it on 100k/year, you suck with money.  I don't care who you are.

Your living in a shithole with a company subsidized healthcare plan is showing.

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

LOLz.  Keep dreaming...and crying.  If you want c-suite money and it's so easy, then you would be there.

35 hours with benefits is asking for C-suite money?  Wow, tough room.

[Celery Man 20991]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Someone has never heard of the Piper Alpha. 

that’s what ur mom calls me

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

35 hours with benefits is asking for C-suite money?  Wow, tough room.

No, I was disputing your notion that this is where the money would come from.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Your living in a shithole with a company subsidized healthcare plan is showing.

WTF are you talking about?   That i should live in a home that makes YOU happy?

Yep, that mentality most definitely part of the cultural problems we have.

My house is fine.  My healthcare plan is just fine.  I've earned the hell out of it.  Other people can have it too...if they want to fucking work.  That seems to be a big fucking obstacle for some folks in here though.  

I could live on a lot less than $100k if I had too.  I've made choices to allow for more flexibility than that.  Those guys who say they'll never go back to prison; well I'm the guy who will never go back to poverty.  Don't fucking hate me for what I've earned/saved/ didn't spend; and damned sure don't expect my sympathy for others who make different choices.

I say again, if you can't make it on 100k, you need some major lessons on wants vs needs.

Edited May 13, 2022 by slorch

[fattyflattie 4638]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

I say again, if you can't make it on 100k, you need some major lessons on wants vs needs.

Fuck off old man. I need to live in central Austin. 

[Hefeweizen 5328]

This thread has everything I love and hate about Surly encapsulated.  What we're missing is a good humblebrag from one of the CEOs who post here during their shareholder meetings.

 

I am mad because today I got behind on Surly mainly due to work getting in the way.  That is a damned inconvenience.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

36 minutes ago, slorch said:

WTF are you talking about?   That i should live in a home that makes YOU happy?

Yep, that mentality most definitely part of the cultural problems we have.

My house is fine.  My healthcare plan is just fine.  I've earned the hell out of it.  Other people can have it too...if they want to fucking work.  That seems to be a big fucking obstacle for some folks in here though.  

I could live on a lot less than $100k if I had too.  I've made choices to allow for more flexibility than that.  Those guys who say they'll never go back to prison; well I'm the guy who will never go back to poverty.  Don't fucking hate me for what I've earned/saved/ didn't spend; and damned sure don't expect my sympathy for others who make different choices.

I say again, if you can't make it on 100k, you need some major lessons on wants vs needs.

Im talking about your town...you're out in west Texas right? It's a shithole.

[Caponata 151]

35 minutes ago, slorch said:

WTF are you talking about?   That i should live in a home that makes YOU happy?

Yep, that mentality most definitely part of the cultural problems we have.

My house is fine.  My healthcare plan is just fine.  I've earned the hell out of it.  Other people can have it too...if they want to fucking work.  That seems to be a big fucking obstacle for some folks in here though.  

I could live on a lot less than $100k if I had too.  I've made choices to allow for more flexibility than that.  Those guys who say they'll never go back to prison; well I'm the guy who will never go back to poverty.  Don't fucking hate me for what I've earned/saved/ didn't spend; and damned sure don't expect my sympathy for others who make different choices.

I say again, if you can't make it on 100k, you need some major lessons on wants vs needs.

"If they want to work". Outside of someone who inherited wealth who are these people that don't work?Everyone has to work. You're not special. 

[Thatguy 8807]

30 minutes ago, slorch said:

WTF are you talking about?   That i should live in a home that makes YOU happy?

Yep, that mentality most definitely part of the cultural problems we have.

My house is fine.  My healthcare plan is just fine.  I've earned the hell out of it.  Other people can have it too...if they want to fucking work.  That seems to be a big fucking obstacle for some folks in here though.  

I could live on a lot less than $100k if I had too.  I've made choices to allow for more flexibility than that.  Those guys who say they'll never go back to prison; well I'm the guy who will never go back to poverty.  Don't fucking hate me for what I've earned/saved/ didn't spend; and damned sure don't expect my sympathy for others who make different choices.

I say again, if you can't make it on 100k, you need some major lessons on wants vs needs.

Huh?

 

  100k isn't a lot of money in this climate. Sure you can live on 100k, but you have to make a lot of cuts. Kids sports are out the window. Living in a decent area in Houston is out the window. Kids want cellphones? Tough luck. Honestly, just living in a decent area with a couple kids and decent benefits is going to get pretty close to 100k before any extras. Healthcare is gonna be 1k a month. Mortgage at least 2k in any decent area. You are looking at 6k a month just to scrape by without a car payment, vacations, or any extracurriculars. And that's in Houston.

  https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20910-Martinez-St-Woodland-Hills-CA-91364/19942125_zpid/

 

  5 or 6 years ago we sold a 2k sq ft house in Woodland Hills area of LA like the one above and moved to Houston. I can tell you unequivocally there is no way in hell you could make it there with 100k.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

20 minutes ago, Caponata said:

"If they want to work". Outside of someone who inherited wealth who are these people that don't work?Everyone has to work. You're not special. 

Yes he is. LOOK AT HIS BOOTSTRAPS!!