Musk: American workers are lazy. Chinese workers are awesome.

[Thatguy 8811]

  Some of you guys have lost your damned minds. The lady at the desk of the fitness gym you go to is making 12 an hour. That's 2k a month before Uncle Sam gets his cut and brings it down to 1600. Any decent 1 bedroom apt is upwards of 900 a month now. You've already spent more than half your earnings and haven't gotten insurance, food, paid bills, a car, or any transportation costs. People should, at the bare minimum, at least be able to afford to put a roof over their heads. I will let you in on a little secret too. Companies that largely employ low wage, hourly workers try not to let them hit that 30 hour mark to keep them out of healthcare eligibility.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Thatguy

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

My fitness gym has a man at the front desk so I have just disproven your entire post. 

[TwiceHorn 31520]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:55 PM, Js1 said:

It’s not. It’s completely out of touch. The sandwich maker should just take on debt and go to law school. Duh! Bootstraps! 

But it’s the same guy who said a family of 4 cannot possibly live in anything less than 3500 sq feet. 

And $400 in your pocket, as opposed to billable rate, which most firms keep about 60% of, is what 25 year biglaw partners make.  You may start at a $400 hourly rate at a biglaw firm, but when you do the math, you figure out you're making about 50-75/hr.

Still kicks the shit out of 9/hr, but it takes seven years of school.

[fattyflattie 4638]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And $400 in your pocket, as opposed to billable rate, which most firms keep about 60% of, is what 25 year biglaw partners make.  You may start at a $400 hourly rate at a biglaw firm, but when you do the math, you figure out you're making about 50-75/hr.

Still kicks the shit out of 9/hr, but it takes seven years of school.

Everytime I see that post about the min house footage, I still can’t believe he thought it was a serious post.  A small bright spot at the end of a shitty day.  
 

60%?  Motherfucker. Thieves. 

[Revolution512 1494]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

  Some of you guys have lost your damned minds. The lady at the desk of the fitness gym you go to is making 12 an hour. That's 2k a month before Uncle Sam gets his cut and brings it down to 1600. Any decent 1 bedroom apt is upwards of 900 a month now. You've already spent more than half your earnings and haven't gotten insurance, food, paid bills, a car, or any transportation costs. People should, at the bare minimum, at least be able to afford to put a roof over their heads. I will let you in on a little secret too. Companies that largely employ low wage, hourly workers try not to let them hit that 30 hour mark to keep them out of healthcare eligibility.

What are the qualifications for that job? Breathing? 

[CooterBrown 18022]

  100k isn't a lot of money in this climate.

$100K is equal to $75K in 2010. Back then, even Rocko was making that salary and no batted an eye. When someone makes the 2022 equivalent salary, all of a sudden a bunch of people get bent out of shape about it and can’t believe a single income household couldn’t make it on that salary.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2022?endYear=2010&amount=100000

[F250 28809]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Someone has never heard of the Piper Alpha.  There are reasons all these safeguards are now so commonplace.  It’s because people like to take shortcuts and aren’t as clever as they think they are.

I had a similar thought reading his post. When I first started dealing with power plants I was caught off guard by the amount of safety protocols that at first glance seemed excessive. Then some old timer would say "back in the 80's we would just crawl in there to make a quick repair but one time the turbine turned on and incinerated the guy doing repairs."

A lot of their safety protocols were made after someone died or was maimed.

 

[Sawbonz 27583]

14 hours ago, RatJuul said:

The partners completed a first-of-its-kind pilot in late March, hauling four round-trip freight runs between Dallas and Atlanta 24 hours a day for 131 total hours—covering 6,350 miles over nearly five-and-a-half full days.

What were they thinking? Should’a  been Texarkana 

[safe sex 11741]

You can't achieve all of those things on $15/hr in Austin.

[Hermanator 7129]

14 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Iirc, Walmart is known to pay very well for their truckers. I’m out of town working now, but there are signs everywhere here for 25k sign on bonus with company truck, short haul (at home at night) class A guys.  I saw John Oliver’s episode. He interviews they lady that made $28 or whatever but conveniently left out any success stories. There are millions of truckers. They don’t all make $28 checks. 

He highlights certain people but it's definitely representative of the wider population in this case. Sure there are some people with certain connections or other advantages making a better living but on the average the industry is in a bad spot with drivers not willing to drive for such low profit and terrible working conditions. 

Here's another good explanation of it from about 7 months ago 

https://time.com/6116853/truck-driver-shortage-supply-chain/

Edited May 13, 2022 by Hermanator

[Hermanator 7129]

53 minutes ago, F250 said:

I had a similar thought reading his post. When I first started dealing with power plants I was caught off guard by the amount of safety protocols that at first glance seemed excessive. Then some old timer would say "back in the 80's we would just crawl in there to make a quick repair but one time the turbine turned on and incinerated the guy doing repairs."

A lot of their safety protocols were made after someone died or was maimed and the company got sued and had to settle out of court for several million. 

 

 

[Hermanator 7129]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And $400 in your pocket, as opposed to billable rate, which most firms keep about 60% of, is what 25 year biglaw partners make.  You may start at a $400 hourly rate at a biglaw firm, but when you do the math, you figure out you're making about 50-75/hr.

Still kicks the shit out of 9/hr, but it takes seven years of school.

The problem with that is you have to be a lawyer doing lawyer work for 70 hours a week and die at age 68 of heart attacks with a bad conscious. 

[52-80 19223]

7 hours ago, Thatguy said:

100k isn't a lot of money in this climate. Sure you can live on 100k, but you have to make a lot of cuts. Kids sports are out the window. Living in a decent area in Houston is out the window. Kids want cellphones? Tough luck. Honestly, just living in a decent area with a couple kids and decent benefits is going to get pretty close to 100k before any extras. Healthcare is gonna be 1k a month. Mortgage at least 2k in any decent area. You are looking at 6k a month just to scrape by without a car payment, vacations, or any extracurriculars. And that's in Houston.

  https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20910-Martinez-St-Woodland-Hills-CA-91364/19942125_zpid/

 

  5 or 6 years ago we sold a 2k sq ft house in Woodland Hills area of LA like the one above and moved to Houston. I can tell you unequivocally there is no way in hell you could make it there with 100k.

Guy with a 6-car garage, shopping for a Porsche, pumping $20k/yr for his kid (singular) to play volleyball, says the median earning in Silicon Valley isn't really a lot of money.

Air, water, shelter, and children organized sports....

Median earning of 16M full time Californians is $68k, and for the 5M LA metro is $65k.  Who knows how millions of people out there live, but probably really shitty without Little League participation.  The struggle is real.

[Celery Man 20991]

6 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

What are the qualifications for that job? Breathing? 

Being showered, fed, clothed, and rested in addition to the breathing.

[Thatguy 8811]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:55 AM, fattyflattie said:

People are generally paid what they are worth, or more, in the US.  I'm sorry you think someone building a sandwich should make $20/hr, but left to the markets, I bet I could find a good godamned sandwich maker for about $9. They have the ability at any time to go to law school and get paid $400/hr to post on Surly if the $9 doesn't suit their desired lifestyle. I'd of loved to live the IG lifestyle in my early 20's too, but traveling to shithole countries to remove them of their hydrocarbons paid better. 

  This is not correct. We have a family member who has a daughter who is obese and just turned 8. Both her parents are obese. Through programming and conditioning that child will never have a chance at athletics. In stark contrast my wife and I are both former athletes. We have encouraged physical activity at an early age. From chasing her around at the park as a toddler to the high level vball she plays now. My wife runs 2 miles 5 days a week with her. She can bench 140 and she is still in middle school.

  Intelligent people largely aren't just popped out. While there are some smart kids that just happen, the majority of them come from the proper conditioning just like everything else. Most successful people were coached to be where they are well before they hopped in the driver's seat of their own lives. A lot of people are set on the path they are on by the people who birthed them, whether positive or negative. So you are going to get a lot of people in life who are still trying to redirect themselves onto a better path. My mom was one of those. She had me early in life, but was able to course correct and go back and get her nursing degree while I was young. Back then you could manage a living with a fairly low paying job. While we were still(single mom) poor, my mom made sure we went to good schools and put a premium on education. I was embarrassed as a teenager because the kids I went to school with were well off. I didn't see what she was doing, but now that I am older and wiser I understand that my success was no mistake. However, it all started with making a wage that was enough to put food on the table while allowing her to go back to school. If not for that we never make it out.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, trauma babe said:

You can't achieve all of those things on $15/hr in Austin.

 

9 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Im talking about your town...you're out in west Texas right? It's a shithole.

That's where I live for family reasons, not financial ones.  To your point though, don't pick the Bay Area or Atlantic seaboard and then cry about not being able to make a living.

Buncha folks on here want the nice things in life for people who aren't willing to work/ take on the responsibility for them.

I don't feel sorry for those people, nor should I be supporting their choices financially( taxes/ wage mandates.) Falsely inflated wages are folly and little more than social gerrymandering.

Edited May 13, 2022 by slorch

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 minutes ago, slorch said:

 

That's where I live for family reasons, not financial ones.  To your point though, don't pick the Bay Area or Atlantic seaboard and then cry about not being able to make a living.

Buncha folks on here want the nice things in life for people who aren't willing to work/ take on the responsibility for them.

I don't feel sorry for those people, nor should I be supporting their choices financially( taxes/ wage mandates.) Falsely inflated wages are folly and little more than social gerrymandering.

Do you feel sorry for people that can no longer afford to live in the place they grew up?

And what the fuck are falsely inflated wages?

You are so slorch.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Caponata said:

"If they want to work". Outside of someone who inherited wealth who are these people that don't work?Everyone has to work. You're not special. 

agreed.

I am not.

Then how am I 50+ years old and not making $3.35/ hr any more?  It's like a gotdam miracle... that virtually anyone can do if they show up and  put in effort.

[Guest]

dp

Edited May 13, 2022 by slorch

[Celery Man 20991]

If your business isn’t paying enough for your employees to live, it is government subsidized. Get off the teat.

[Thatguy 8811]

26 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Guy with a 6-car garage, shopping for a Porsche, pumping $20k/yr for his kid (singular) to play volleyball, says the median earning in Silicon Valley isn't really a lot of money.

Air, water, shelter, and children organized sports....

Median earning of 16M full time Californians is $68k, and for the 5M LA metro is $65k.  Who knows how millions of people out there live, but probably really shitty without Little League participation.  The struggle is real.

   I don't have a 6 car garage. But yes 100k isn't a lot of money in California and I don't give a shit what the reports say, I lived it. Look below.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/Compton,-CA_rb/

 Those 800 sq ft houses in Compton are mid 400's. That's 2400 a month with 20% down, or 28,000 a year just to pay the mortgage. Now remember with state taxes 100k ends up being 64k real money. Now you have 36k left. Take 1k for healthcare for you and your family and now you are down to 24k. Car payment 5k, now 19. Electricity, phones, gas, car insurance, gas for car, internet. I am sure you see where this is going. That's all while living in a shithole like Compton. Now imagine living anywhere decent and having to pay 1mil for a house.

  And the 20k for vball is pretty normal. 5500 for club fees. 12 tournaments a year with 6 of those away. Hotel stays for those is at least 200 a night at 3 to 4 nights per. Food for each night. Roundtrip flights for 3 people. The Orlando, Kansas City, and Indy trips are 3k each. The two Dallas and San Antonio trips 1300. Do that math. And remember that every session of personal instuction costs money too. This is what everyone who plays club vball is spending if you are playing at a high level. There are 5k clubs across the United States. College coaches only look at club. Don't blame us blame the system.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Do you feel sorry for people that can no longer afford to live in the place they grew up?

No.  There is no social obligation there.  Hell most youngsters fight like hell to get out of that place.

And what the fuck are falsely inflated wages? Demanding $15/hr for being a barista.  There is nothing wrong with the job, but accept what the market pays.  If you want more, do more/ take on more responsibility.  Folks act like this money is going to magically punish the CEOs.   LMAO.  There's zero/ nothing wrong with part time jobs/ menial labor. I've done my share, and you know what it taught me?  I wasn't staying there very long.  I guess from your perspective, i should have quit and waited until Johnny Gov stepped in...

You are so slorch.  This board is so surly.  Pound the living shit out of leftist flowchart/ magic 8-ball responses while ignoring reality.  People who do more, earn more.

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

If your business isn’t paying enough for your employees to live, it is government subsidized. Get off the teat.

Why do you hate Theaters?

[Celery Man 20991]

They are filled with riff raff.

[Js1 85493]

Ah, Slorched. Classic - a thread completely ruined within a day by our resident boot licking, bootstraps pulling, west Texas, Tech trash

Edited May 13, 2022 by Js1

[Bateshorn 9928]

8 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

What are the qualifications for that job? Breathing? 

Whelp, if your gyms are like the ones I went to, it usually involves having to rerack all the weights, since everyone is too Swole to put their plates away. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Bateshorn

[TwiceHorn 31520]

Lemme ask people this.

Does anyone really think that an "underclass" American is any lazier or more unskilled than the same type from 50 or 75 years ago?

[TXSG8R 3362]

52 minutes ago, slorch said:

 

That's where I live for family reasons, not financial ones.  To your point though, don't pick the Bay Area or Atlantic seaboard and then cry about not being able to make a living.

Buncha folks on here want the nice things in life for people who aren't willing to work/ take on the responsibility for them.

I don't feel sorry for those people, nor should I be supporting their choices financially( taxes/ wage mandates.) Falsely inflated wages are folly and little more than social gerrymandering.

“Get a better job”

”Don’t live in a bunch of places with better jobs”

 

[Murfdogg21 4421]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Lemme ask people this.

Does anyone really think that an "underclass" American is any lazier or more unskilled than the same type from 50 or 75 years ago?

Probably not, but they also likely didn’t expect $19/hr at McDonalds and to have the newest iPhone and a sweet BMW lease. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

 

That's where I live for family reasons, not financial ones.  To your point though, don't pick the Bay Area or Atlantic seaboard and then cry about not being able to make a living.

Buncha folks on here want the nice things in life for people who aren't willing to work/ take on the responsibility for them.

I don't feel sorry for those people, nor should I be supporting their choices financially( taxes/ wage mandates.) Falsely inflated wages are folly and little more than social gerrymandering.

Food and shelter are now considered the “nice things in life”.  How the mighty have fallen. 

[52-80 19223]

43 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   I don't have a 6 car garage. But yes 100k isn't a lot of money in California and I don't give a shit what the reports say, I lived it. Look below.

I am sure you see where this is going. That's all while living in a shithole like Compton. Now imagine living anywhere decent and having to pay 1mil for a house.

  And the 20k for vball is pretty normal. Don't blame us blame the system...

While we were still(single mom) poor, my mom made sure we went to good schools and put a premium on education

I am not blaming anyone for how much vball costs.  I'm pointing out your spending the gym lady's entire annual salary on your kiddie's sports program, and then saying people "lost their damned minds" for overestimating the value of $100k. 

You are correct that good children are a product of good parenting.  I'm happy that your mom put a premium on good education.  Neither of those are conditional on having 6-figures of earning.

Millions of immigrants - and natives too - dont have the luxury of choosing their schools, or a parent with a nursing career, or even speaking the local language.  Yeah, I lived that in California too.  It's a picture of my entire extended family.  Last I checked, that whole cohort is doing pretty fucking alright... minus that whole cross-country volleyball tournament thing.
 

[Js1 85493]

6 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Probably not, but they also likely didn’t expect $19/hr at McDonalds and to have the newest iPhone and a sweet BMW lease. 

Tell me more about the iPhones from 50-75 years ago 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

48 minutes ago, slorch said:

 

Let's try this from another angle.

50 years ago the "working man" could make a living wage showing up and doing their job every day. They could buy a house and put some money away.

Now, that simply is not possible. Wages for the working man have stagnated over that time while the cost of living has skyrocketed.

Why?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

10 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Probably not, but they also likely didn’t expect $19/hr at McDonalds and to have the newest iPhone and a sweet BMW lease. 

This image of the poor man with all these high end luxuries is odd. Did you see an article or post on Facebook that made you think that is reality?

[Js1 85493]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

This image of the poor man with all these high end luxuries is odd. Did you see an article or post on Facebook that made you think that is reality?

Welfare Queens!!!!!1!11!

[Neonmoon 38130]

It’s amazing how many people think the poor are lazy. 

[Bill Brasky 1450]

some of them are just stupid 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s amazing how many people think the poor are lazy. 

spend all day cruising around in their beamers guzzling $5 per gallon gas.

must be nice.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, Bill Brasky said:

some of them are just stupid 

they were just as stupid 50 years ago, yet were able to make a living wage, buy a house and retire. what happened?

[hobbes2702 13052]

15 hours ago, slorch said:

Artificially raising wages is working, eh?

Low rung jobs aren't there to support a family.  That's a fucked up pipe dream that somebody should instantly get higher wages with basic, even menial skills required.

"Living wages" is a dog whistle for "pay me more for not doing jack shit."

So your opinion is that we should have a bunch of people, working full time, who can’t afford to live? How exactly do you think this works?

[Captainant 27723]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

How exactly do you think this works?

Very, very profitably for shareholders

[Celery Man 20991]

Maybe we can tax the poor for their food stamps/welfare and just have a self sustaining poverty ecosystem.

[TwiceHorn 31520]

40 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Probably not, but they also likely didn’t expect $19/hr at McDonalds and to have the newest iPhone and a sweet BMW lease. 

Well, here's the fundamental problem.  Innovation increases productivity.  That benefit mostly accrues to the upper classes.

But we still have the morons and the morons got to live.  Their labor is, in a purely capitalistic sense, devalued.  But it's still needed and in that sense remains as valuable as it ever was, and probably requires a living wage.

[TXSG8R 3362]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, here's the fundamental problem.  Innovation increases productivity.  That benefit mostly accrues to the upper classes.

But we still have the morons and the morons got to live.  Their labor is, in a purely capitalistic sense, devalued.  But it's still needed and in that sense remains as valuable as it ever was, and probably requires a living wage.

Yep, the whiplash if those people actually uprooted and left the city to find good jobs and a lower cost of living would be amazing. Like it or not, big companies are going to stay in big cities. Like it or not, those big companies are economic engines, and that corner office guy needs someone to clean his office. Corner office guy likes to go out to eat at restaurants, grab a coffee, take a cab, have his trash picked up on a regular basis, etc. Lots of menial jobs may not be considered critical, but corner office guy’s life would be pretty shitty without them, so even in that most cynical sense they have value. Beyond political muscle memory. I don’t know why it’s remotely a controversial issue. Pay people enough to live on one job. 

[BabaYaga 15304]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Being showered, fed, clothed, and rested in addition to the breathing.

And tig ol' bitties.....

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I don’t know why it’s remotely a controversial issue. Pay people enough to live on one job. 

it's fucking crazy there is so much outright disdain for people just trying to go to work everyday to provide for their families.

i have to think in slorch's case there is some deep seated disdain for poor people because he associates that condition with his upbringing which was not pleasant.

[BabaYaga 15304]

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, here's the fundamental problem.  Innovation increases productivity.  That benefit mostly accrues to the upper classes.

But we still have the morons and the morons got to live.  Their labor is, in a purely capitalistic sense, devalued.  But it's still needed and in that sense remains as valuable as it ever was, and probably requires a living wage.

It does for sure, but it also opens a lot of other doors.  All you fellow semi-oldz remember the pre-internet hysteria about the tens upon tens of millions of jobs that it was going to erase?

Or the dock workers who railed against the cargo box?  The boxes that so impacted society that they created entire population shifts across the country?

And there are examples to the contrary as well.  What I'm saying is it's Friday.  I'm off today because I just fucking want to be.  And I'm halfway tempted to drop a pron blast and get hammered by my large and expensive pool

[Js1 85493]

48 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

some of them are just stupid 

Unexpected hard laugh this morning 

[BabaYaga 15304]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

it's fucking crazy there is so much outright disdain for people just trying to go to work everyday to provide for their families.

i have to think in slorch's case there is some deep seated disdain for poor people because he associates that condition with his upbringing which was not pleasant.

If this is really what you think then you are just peddling partisan talking points and ignoring everything else.  Like the fact that for most companies labor (salaries, etc.) is often as high as 60% of their overall expenses.  Many plans floated would essentially take that up to close to 100% of their expenses.  Now do the math for me without factoring in significant layoffs?

[52-80 19223]

57 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s amazing how many people think the poor are lazy.