Musk: American workers are lazy. Chinese workers are awesome.

[fattyflattie 4638]

35 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I’ve been in O&G for 25 years and probably 90% of that time was offshore or directly supporting offshore operations. Your scenario has NEVER been the case so spare us your bullshit. 

For a Major, or a brokedick contractor?  @Llano Estacado @utxmike05 Remember all those times this didn't happen?  Fudge has been in the business 25 years!!11!

[Caponata 151]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

 

You remind me of my friend's dad who thought Costco payed their hourly labor too much & he wouldn't renew his membership because he thinks they're "socialist". 

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

40 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

For a Major, or a brokedick contractor?  @Llano Estacado @utxmike05 Remember all those times this didn't happen?  Fudge has been in the business 25 years!!11!

I’ve run the gauntlet between service company, broke ass operators, majors and most everything else in between.  Unless your company pegged you as the biggest mark ass bitch in the organization you didn’t work 20 hour days straight for months on end.

[Starfleet Command 441]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

We used to crow about how "great" America was (damn, it almost sounds like a slogan, doesn't it?).....precisely BECAUSE with a modicum of hard work, you could make a good life for yourself.  That made us BETTER than China and the like.  Yet now, we're supposed to ADMIRE working like slave labor?  WTF?

And here's an easy way to look at it with real perspective -- again, it's not about dollars.  Dollars are just a unit that we use to acquire things that matter, and that we spend to acquire the skills and credentials to earn more dollars.  Think of it in terms of "hours of labor," both spent and earned.

In 1970, a "middle wage" worker did not have to expend a huge sum of dollars or hours of labor to develop marketable skills.  There were plenty of good jobs available with just a high school diploma, and a college degree from a good state university was so cheap as to be almost free, in today's terms.  So, few dollars OUT to become a good worker.

And the dollars that worker earned at his job from those hours of labor -- at GM, at IBM, at the auto mechanic, at wherever -- were largely enough to pay for housing, a car, and the other basics, with some other pleasures/luxuries (small ones maybe, but niceties just the same) thrown in.  YES, we've always had a poverty class (our formerly large agricultural class was a big chunk of that, for example; sorry, for as much as we admire our grandfathers who were farmers in E. Texas and whatnot, and how hard they worked, they were almost all f'n POOR).  But we ALSO had a much larger middle class, who could breathe somewhat easy -- they had jobs that were good enough, and they had basic security, and they didn't have to kill themselves to get it.

Now, our middle class works harder than any of their western peers, and to a large extent has LESS security and a chance to "breathe easy."  And we're supposed to be more like.....China.....to solve that conundrum?  Dude.  Shit has gotten WAY out of whack.  Stridently denying that, and saying "the problem is, Americans -- who work harder than almost all of their western peers -- are just lazy and don't work hard enough" doesn't fix shit.  It only supports the continuing systemic failures, and makes shit worse.  But, making shit worse is what we do these days -- all gas, no brakes.

They want America to be a third world country but on a larger scale with an unparalleled, world historical amount of money concentrated at the top. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

9 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I’ve run the gauntlet between service company, broke ass operators, majors and most everything else in between.  Unless your company pegged you as the biggest mark ass bitch in the organization you didn’t work 20 hour days straight for months on end.

All of our FE's got fucked, but you've been at this a whole 8 years longer, so obviously you know it all.  We had 5-7 FE's for 29 vessels, you can do that math.  Clients would send a few engineers out to day/night shift and cover each other, but we were out there ourselves.  My longest consecutive was Yache/Xanab work, 106 days.  Slept on the tower couch nearly every night, when the capt. went to bed about 0100.   We were expected to be up for every meal, and give little safety spiels at each shift change.  We only had one capt, too.  Not really the safest way to go, but that's what it was.  Wasn't specific to my company, it was common around companies of that size. 

You can call me a mark ass bitch, I guess.  I made as much as my peers from UT, Aggy, and Westpoint with a lesser degree and school, and stacked a fuckload of cash while out there. I put my time in, and had learned enough to consult in an SME role in my early 30's, so time well wasted.  The only way I felt like a mark was when the company folded, I had a few hundred earned days that they never let us take.  3/1 my ass.  

[Js1 85493]

1 hour ago, Starfleet Command said:

They want America to be a third world country but on a larger scale with an unparalleled, world historical amount of money concentrated at the top. 

Russianization of America. Oligarchy at its finest. 

[utxmike05 1828]

48 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I’ve run the gauntlet between service company, broke ass operators, majors and most everything else in between.  Unless your company pegged you as the biggest mark ass bitch in the organization you didn’t work 20 hour days straight for months on end.

Hey you don't know our life.   20 hrs everyday is slightly exaggerated...basically on call all fukin day.  But being up 20 hrs was common depending on what operation is goin on.

 @fattyflattie

[Fondren & Main 6731]

1 hour ago, Starfleet Command said:

They want America to be a third world country but on a larger scale with an unparalleled, world historical amount of money concentrated at the top. 

Can you please clarify they?

[Thatguy 8810]

1 hour ago, RatJuul said:

The problem(s) are multifaceted.

I just spent half a day volunteering. My employer is a good one in that they not only pay me a lot of money in exchange for doing a job, but also because they pay me to have mental health wellbeing days and pay me to volunteer, both on a monthly basis. Besides acknowledging the privilege to donate time for a worthy cause next to other privileged teams like the Accenture ERG folks and Junior League members needing to hit their service hour quotas, the reason this is germane is because I got to thinking of this discussion and more broadly the type of work. 

I basically spent 4 hours on an assembly line in a well lit warehouse with “wow that’s what I call music 37” playing at a sufficient volume to drown out the occasional honking forklift. On my feet, constantly doing the same mundane task over and over, as part of the overall process, while occasionally breaking down or lifting boxes in a sea of cardboard brown. It’s what I imagined a less hellish version of being an Amazon fulfillment worker would experience. And I had the thought; this job sucks. But it doesn’t suck because it’s not $20/hour. It would suck then too. It’s the nature of work that sucks.

Humans are built to be creative and to explore and play and be inquisitive and intrepid. These rote and mundane jobs are soul-deadening and dull the human experience. No reasonable amount of money or black eyed peas pop music can change that and make it a fulfilling exchange of time outside of anything but the very short term. I guess that’s why those Amazon jobs are part time or seasonal.

So this brings up the broader point that as humans have innovated, the efficiency and value gains created a glut of creative work for human beings. The job economy is also one of haves and have nots with a shrinking middle class, you either do manual soul killing repetitive work a robot could do or you are a better paid knowledge worker. And the gap is and will just be getting wider as we get more and more technological solutions to do increasingly smarter work, which is a necessary component of innovation and growth and invention and progress.

And the only way we can keep a market economy running and growing is through progress. The only way we can stay in the global catbird seat is progress. The only way we ensure to the highest ability we can our citizenry of existential safety (ahem: Ukraine), is through progress and the influence, wealth and power that being a leader brings.

I guess what I’m saying is, there isn’t a real answer outside of a fundamental tear down and rebuild of who we are as a market economy and country. It’s literally a wholesale change that can’t happen without a complete tear out. Pretending we had a living wage and companies were more equitable and then we’d not have the same problems is wishcasting.

   It's not that difficult at all. If our CEOs would just be happy being 9 figure earners we could afford to pay livable wages to everyone. Hell, the top 10 earners in the US cleared 300billion dollars last year. If we raised the wages of every minimum wage worker $7 an hour it would only cost us 34.6 billion dollars. Musk could knock that out by himself out of the 121 billion he made last year. We could easily pay people a livable wage but we are too damn greedy at the top to do so. How much money do you really need?

[Brisketexan 105206]

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

   It's not that difficult at all. If our CEOs would just be happy being 9 figure earners we could afford to pay livable wages to everyone. Hell, the top 10 earners in the US cleared 300billion dollars last year. If we raised the wages of every minimum wage worker $7 an hour it would only cost us 34.6 billion dollars. Musk could knock that out by himself out of the 121 billion he made last year. We could easily pay people a livable wage but we are too damn greedy at the top to do so. How much money do you really need?

Yep.  It's not that hard at all.  The answer is "stop glorifying being a rapacious, greedy dick."

Wait....nevermind.  Just looked at what I typed, and then looked out the window at America, 2022.  I retract my evaluation -- it's impossible.

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 hour ago, utxmike05 said:

Hey you don't know our life.   20 hrs everyday is slightly exaggerated...basically on call all fukin day.  But being up 20 hrs was common depending on what operation is goin on.

 @fattyflattie

Spoken like a true pipeliner. Your roomie BDew must have been grabbing a few hours for you

[gsoda3 3280]

   If we raised the wages of every minimum wage worker $7 an hour it would only cost us 34.6 billion dollars. Musk could knock that out by himself out of the 121 billion he made last year.

You don't know how this works.

[fattyflattie 4638]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

 

You don't know how this works.

 

I’m far from minimum wage but I’d like an extra $7/hr too, please. As @Thatguy mentioned upthread, 3 kids in club sports is expensive. 

[52-80 19223]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

   It's not that difficult at all. If our CEOs would just be happy being 9 figure earners we could afford to pay livable wages to everyone. Hell, the top 10 earners in the US cleared 300billion dollars last year. If we raised the wages of every minimum wage worker $7 an hour it would only cost us 34.6 billion dollars. Musk could knock that out by himself out of the 121 billion he made last year. We could easily pay people a livable wage but we are too damn greedy at the top to do so. How much money do you really need?

I hope to god you know the $300b wasnt “cleared”. certainly not by todays closing hours. and the guy you mentioned had 0 guaranteed comp, as his pay was tied directly to the value of his company, whose equity is shared to his employees, and where the price appreciation benefits all the shareholders who approved the pay. 

America is good. It could be better. IMO one improvement is instituting a wealth tax, and collecting more “from the top”. 

Thats a good conversation to start, but not with people blasting in with the premise that “the system is all fucked and everyone is out to get the poor”.

 

[Captainant 27723]

25 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m far from minimum wage but I’d like an extra $7/hr too, please. As @Thatguy mentioned upthread, 3 kids in club sports is expensive. 

Yessssss crab mentality! Nobody else can do better unless YOU can benefit from it too.

Keep up the good work. Great lesson to pass on to your kids.

[Js1 85493]

Just now, Captainant said:

Yessssss crab mentality! Nobody else can do better unless YOU can benefit from it too.

Keep up the good work. Great lesson to pass on to your kids.

Why do we bother trying to cure cancer? It won’t be fair to everyone who survived it! 

[TXSG8R 3362]

39 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I hope to god you know the $300b wasnt “cleared”. certainly not by todays closing hours. and the guy you mentioned had 0 guaranteed comp, as his pay was tied directly to the value of his company, whose equity is shared to his employees, and where the price appreciation benefits all the shareholders who approved the pay. 

America is good. It could be better. IMO one improvement is instituting a wealth tax, and collecting more “from the top”. 

Thats a good conversation to start, but not with people blasting in with the premise that “the system is all fucked and everyone is out to get the poor”.

 

If that money isn’t taxable, it shouldn’t be able to be leveraged for loans and other bullshit ways the wealthy avoid paying taxes. His 0 guaranteed comp is a feature, not a bug. 

[Biff Tannen 45702]

8 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

Man.  I get close to 50 bucks an hour changing light bulbs at the Amazon campus and we are completely understaffed.  A lot of guys quit because they feel "under appreciated". I'm like dude, we change light bulbs for 50 bucks an hour and work 4/10s.  You'll survive

Uh, y'all hiring?

[Biff Tannen 45702]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

IMO one improvement is instituting a wealth tax, and collecting more “from the top”. 

Thats a good conversation to start, but not with people blasting in with the premise that “the system is all fucked and everyone is out to get the poor”.

Why does the second part hurt the first part?

[fattyflattie 4638]

53 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yessssss crab mentality! Nobody else can do better unless YOU can benefit from it too.

Keep up the good work. Great lesson to pass on to your kids.

So let's review the plan.  You take money from a bunch of people with mostly intangible wealth, and give it to a group that you deem worthy, just for existing.  Everything from chewing gum to rent to medical procedures immediately rises in price, because, we have created demand, without corresponding supply.  We wont worry about any burdens to employers, as this increase is being funded by the govt.   So, the wealthy were negatively impacted.  Every single person above the cutoff line has been negatively impacted (less spending power, no money because hrr drr crab mentality).  And the people you deem worthy of money for existing now have slightly more purchasing power, because things went up in price due to supply/demand impacts.  Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

I appreciate your concern for what I teach my children.  How not to be poor in America takes 90 seconds to teach, so we've covered it before. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

40 minutes ago, RatJuul said:

Because cancer doesn’t care how much money you have, generally speaking. She’s an equal opportunity killer.

Bullshit.  If you have the money to afford high quality treatments you have a much better shot of beating it.  If you’re poor, tough shit.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

So let's review the plan.  You take money from a bunch of people with mostly intangible wealth, and give it to a group that you deem worthy, just for existing.  Everything from chewing gum to rent to medical procedures immediately rises in price, because, we have created demand, without corresponding supply.  We wont worry about any burdens to employers, as this increase is being funded by the govt.   So, the wealthy were negatively impacted.  Every single person above the cutoff line has been negatively impacted (less spending power, no money because hrr drr crab mentality).  And the people you deem worthy of money for existing now have slightly more purchasing power, because things went up in price due to supply/demand impacts.  Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

I appreciate your concern for what I teach my children.  How not to be poor in America takes 90 seconds to teach, so we've covered it before. 

Good lord.

[Js1 85493]

6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Bullshit.  If you have the money to afford high quality treatments you have a much better shot of beating it.  If you’re poor, tough shit.

Let’s not forget the people who live near refineries or communities of cancer clusters. Aka, not the rich people. 

[F250 28809]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m far from minimum wage but I’d like an extra $7/hr too, please. As @Thatguy mentioned upthread, 3 kids in club sports is expensive. 

 

The not so secret part of these travel sports organizations is that the most talented don't pay much to play. They are subsidized by the other kids.

It's only expensive for the less than talented.

[fattyflattie 4638]

Just now, F250 said:

 

The not so secret part of these travel sports organizations is that the most talented don't pay much to play. They are subsidized by the other kids.

It's only expensive for the less than talented.

I guess you're taking a knock on my 6, 7, and 9 year olds?  Cool. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

@fattyflattie and @slorch are so focused on the bottom line they're actually carrying water for the green line while sliding down the yellow line.

 

 

[F250 28809]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I guess you're taking a knock on my 6, 7, and 9 year olds?  Cool. 

LOL No. It's just one of those things that people shouldn't mention out loud.

I was saying it as a PSA.

 

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

@fattyflattie and @slorch are so focused on the bottom line they're actually carrying water for the green line while sliding down the yellow line.

 

 

I'm not sure about that.  I'm pretty OK with where we land on the % scale of income and accumulated wealth.  

[fattyflattie 4638]

Just now, F250 said:

LOL No. It's just one of those things that people shouldn't mention out loud.

I was saying it as a PSA.

 

Gotcha.  I'm sure it gets more pronounced in softball/baseball/7x7.    I'm surrounded by dancers, gymnasts, and swimmers.  Maybe they give breaks.  I'd rather them use the time studying, tbh. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I'm not sure about that.  I'm pretty OK with where we land on the % scale of income and accumulated wealth.  

just so i understand, you're cool with this?

[fattyflattie 4638]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

just so i understand, you're cool with this?

It's obviously not ideal, but being on the right side of the chart helps.  I'm sure the folks riding the blue line would disagree. 

[Brothahorn 10087]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   It's not that difficult at all. If our CEOs would just be happy being 9 figure earners we could afford to pay livable wages to everyone. Hell, the top 10 earners in the US cleared 300billion dollars last year. If we raised the wages of every minimum wage worker $7 an hour it would only cost us 34.6 billion dollars. Musk could knock that out by himself out of the 121 billion he made last year. We could easily pay people a livable wage but we are too damn greedy at the top to do so. How much money do you really need?

If we are going down that road, that should be Uncle Sam's job. He wastes more money in a month than Elon probably makes in a year.

How much do we really need is a great question? But I'm not sure we really want the answers. We all live beyond our means or buy things we don't need to a certain extent. Like I don't need a Barndominium but we're building one this summer. My mom has more than enough room in her house for us, but we want our own because. 

 

We can't talk about the working poor or disappearing middle class without looking at the voluntary debt that some of them have taken on. That new Duramax, SidexSide, 4 wheeler, SeaDoo, etc adds up. And we know this and have discussed the debt problems many times on this board.

 

So before we start trying to save folks, we need to figure out which ones need to be saved. And which ones need to save themselves.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

It's obviously not ideal, but being on the right side of the chart helps.  I'm sure the folks riding the blue line would disagree. 

You've spent this entire time arguing for that chart. We are simply saying that more of the massive amount of wealth being created should be shared by the people working to create that wealth. But that's socialism to you and so you actively root for that trend line. It's insane. You're the one getting fucked in the ass too, but you like it. NTTAWT

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

20 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

What are the qualifications for that job? Breathing? 

 

have to be willing to live in poverty, or in your parent's basement.

 

 

[fattyflattie 4638]

9 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

You've spent this entire time arguing for that chart. We are simply saying that more of the massive amount of wealth being created should be shared by the people working to create that wealth. But that's socialism to you and so you actively root for that trend line. It's insane. You're the one getting fucked in the ass too, but you like it. NTTAWT

I’m not arguing for that chart. I simply understand it.  The only time I feel like I’m being fucked in the ass is when I see the current list of wants the free shit army needs to survive, while the rest of us seem to make it just fine. I’m the same age as the people claiming they can’t start a family because of school loans and housing prices.  All luck and privilege, I know. 

[Captainant 27723]

42 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I'm not sure about that.  I'm pretty OK with where we land on the % scale of income and accumulated wealth.  

Aka: fuck yall I got mine.

As to your earlier post on how increasing taxes "harms the wealthy"... Taxing an extra $2k from someone who's making $500k/yr hurts significantly less than someone making $65k/yr. But guess what is the prevailing sentiment right now with your boys. Save your melodramatics for the INJUSTICE of wealthy people paying taxes - especially since you're not even in an income bracket that would be hit by it! You haven't even had a rolls carjacked from your driver bro.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Captainant

[Brew 3049]

I love a good “back in my day” and “everybody is lazy” discussion. People change, times change, things change, and successful companies figure out how to navigate it. Navigating the employee/employer relationship is different today than it was even 3 years ago. I think the biggest issue is the mindset of treating everyone equally based on job function. We are moving closer to everyone having their own work requirements and paying for what they are willing to give. We still have x amount of work to do, but we’ll pay you for exactly what you do and not just what we expect you to do because of the job title you are in. It requires more management/oversight, but it provides each person with their own personalized job function.

The biggest negative in all of this is companies have gotten desperate and are overselling talent which is resetting a lot of industry baselines. They are operating irrationally with short term vision and not looking at the future downsides. People are capitalizing right now, but it will ultimately be problematic for individuals that company jump without the requisite base knowledge and eventually run out of jumps. We have doubled down on new hires and interns to over staff at lower levels to hopefully provide a cushion long-term. My biggest fear is that we stay work from home as an industry and NE companies keep paying NE rates to small town south employees. It’s really screwing our pay scales up and that is what keeps me up long-term.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not arguing for that chart. I simply understand it.  The only time I feel like I’m being fucked in the ass is when I see the current list of wants the free shit army needs to survive, while the rest of us seem to make it just fine. I’m the same age as the people claiming they can’t start a family because of school loans and housing prices.  All luck and privilege, I know. 

What do you understand about that chart? What happened around 1980? Did the rich all the sudden get a lot smarter or harder working? Did the poor and middle classes all the sudden get dumber and lazier.

Tell me what you understand about that chart.

 

[Brisketexan 105206]

With all due respect, you really don’t get it if you think “it’s really not that hard at all.”
Consider the possibility or the question of, what if our American life, workplace and market economy which enables America to be the global leader in power and security, only works because of the violence that we embrace? The violence of unbridled ambition, potential, and power that comes with the “greed” of amassing immense and theoretical paper wealth so large you don’t have enough life in your lungs to count sequentially every dollar?
What if the disruption that causes exponential breakthroughs that drive innovation and growth and an ever-green growth of the pie is only because of the incentives and pay-outs that undergird our economy? I’m talking about such new paradigms that they sound like magic or insanity when first pitched. Industrial Revolution, PC and Internet Revolution, type shifts?
I guess we can always try to put a cap on rewards and appeal that people should be kind and nice and hope we don’t lose control of our own destiny while others allow their megalomaniacs and sociopaths (because from where I sit, that seems like who pioneer and blaze our trails), break new ground and strengthen their homeland. I just don’t see it. Maybe you do.
Lastly, I think we forget that when we want to pull up an exponential number of seats to the table of wealth in the name of equality and diversity and righting of historic wrongs, that this requires an exponential growth of the table as well to make room. That exponential growth means new innovations and markets. That means being on the cutting edge; an edge that not many people understand or can provide value or support, which means more and more work gets automated and what is left is the mundane or the lucrative but difficult while the middle-skill, middle-pay, middle-intelligent jobs start looking like the supply of a starter house. Either you had to get in on one of those jobs before private equity bought them all up or you are one of 2000 people submitting resumes for every one average job.

[mention=205]fattyflattie[/mention] and [mention=354]slorch[/mention] are so focused on the bottom line they're actually carrying water for the green line while sliding down the yellow line.
 
 

Animal tobacco wrote a wall of text that can be rebutted by two facts: 1) in what most everyone would call our golden age (WWII to the mid 70s), we were the envy of the world, and America’s middle class exploded - it’s literally the “before” that the make America great AGAIN crowd is longing for, and 2) during that era, the relative share of earnings and wealth held by the top few percent was dramatically lower than it is today; average CEO pay was a much lower multiple of average worker pay, and remember point 1), we were STILL the greatest innovator and the envy of the world.

We CAN be a source of great innovation and wealth by being a good bit less fucky of the work of class and letting them enjoy a greater share of the benefits of their productivity….we don’t have to imagine that, we actually did it. We just don’t want to anymore. Because crabs in the bucket.

[FartingMonk 3608]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Uh, y'all hiring?

Yeah.  If you are willing to live in the greater Seattle area yes.  I will get you started at 90k

[Vegas64 677]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Animal tobacco wrote a wall of text that can be rebutted by two facts: 1) in what most everyone would call our golden age (WWII to the mid 70s), we were the envy of the world, and America’s middle class exploded - it’s literally the “before” that the make America great AGAIN crowd is longing for, and 2) during that era, the relative share of earnings and wealth held by the top few percent was dramatically lower than it is today; average CEO pay was a much lower multiple of average worker pay, and remember point 1), we were STILL the greatest innovator and the envy of the world.

We CAN be a source of great innovation and wealth by being a good bit less fucky of the work of class and letting them enjoy a greater share of the benefits of their productivity….we don’t have to imagine that, we actually did it. We just don’t want to anymore. Because crabs in the bucket.

 

Very telling of your blindspot and/or privilege that you would say “most everyone says 1950’s-1970’s” was the golden age for America. As C.K. Lewis said, “if I’m black and have a time machine I don’t want to go anywhere before 1980 at least!”.

Also, I think the nature of work and industry has dramatically changed to where 1950’s-1970’s jobs and skills and what those average jobs and skills can be valued at will never the be same.

Lastly, are you just unaware that a cataclysmic population event called a great world war 2, plus being stronger and richer than everyone who had to fight and have their infrastructure destroyed, along with artificial and unsustainable government intervention created the era you are longing for again? You realize it was not an organic or naturally occurring result?

[fattyflattie 4638]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You haven't even had a rolls carjacked from your driver bro.

True. And that poster has said many times his politics and thoughts on everything changed after his 8 figure earned windfall.  I’m certain that happens for a lot of people. I reckon if I ever made it in that capacity, I’d relax enough to feel the same way. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

@fattyflattie and @slorch are so focused on the bottom line they're actually carrying water for the green line while sliding down the yellow line.

 

 

 My personal examples are not "carrying the water" for anyone, other than to point out all of the hand wringing and "woe is me" bullshit is farcical. Y'all are making excuses for people who don't even want to try.

If you want to cling to graphs and stats, here you go... Life is so fucking hard  These absolutely say i shouldn't be where I am.  That's not bragging, it's saying fuck yo statistics.  Anyone can roll them crutches out, I guess.

Edited May 14, 2022 by slorch

[Brisketexan 105206]

Very telling of your blindspot and/or privilege that you would say “most everyone says 1950’s-1970’s” was the golden age for America. As C.K. Lewis said, “if I’m black and have a time machine I don’t want to go anywhere before 1980 at least!”.
Also, I think the nature of work and industry has dramatically changed to where 1950’s-1970’s jobs and skills and what those average jobs and skills can be valued at will never the be same.
Lastly, are you just unaware that a cataclysmic population event called a great world war 2, plus being stronger and richer than everyone who had to fight and have their infrastructure destroyed, along with artificial and unsustainable government intervention created the era you are longing for again? You realize it was not an organic or naturally occurring result?

Oh, no blind spot here - trust me, I have ample reason not to long for those good old days myself. And I’ve posted on here before about our good fortune to be a relatively untouched manufacturing power after WWII. But what we DID with that situation was radically different than the way things are now. As just one example, we invested in our future human capital by strong state funding of universities. That’s gone now - poof. And it’s because our dominating ethos has changed. People aren’t something we invest in to create broad-based wealth in society at large. They are something we consume to create massive wealth for a few. That change is plain to see.

[workswithseed 2109]

29 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Yeah.  If you are willing to live in the greater Seattle area yes.  I will get you started at 90k

Well now. You're speaking my language

[Sawbonz 27583]

17 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Well now. You're speaking my language

Why would you want to take that corporate communist money?

[workswithseed 2109]

27 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why would you want to take that corporate communist money?

[safe sex 11741]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

How not to be poor in America takes 90 seconds to teach, so we've covered it before. 

This is a man who says he doesn't hate the poor. Yet in one simple sentence, he strips every person suffering under poverty and economic stagnation of their inherent dignity. 

[Brisketexan 105206]

Take your example and try to apply some logic to it.
We funded strong state universities (for white men, mainly) post WW2. Why? Could it be because we needed to pivot from a global and National decade long war effort to leveraging our position of power and wealth and we needed more educated people (white men, again, because your “ask anyone, the 1950’s were the pinnacle of glory years for America”) and not dead or wounded men, to do so?
This goes back to my point that the game has changed. The dynamics are different and thus past performance is not guarantee of future results. Because of our innovations and growth, there isn’t a big fatty middle of average jobs for average people to make average money and live an average life. We have a glut of average people (even after a million dead of Covid, may God rest their souls). The housing market is a perfect comparison. There are the rare $250k homes for the average person hardly just as there are rare the more middle class jobs for the average, not really skillful person. Guys like me and you and definitely scorch, we benefited from buying a $250k home years ago that is now worth $2mm with respect to our jobs and career using that analogy, so I agree it’s unfair to just say “boot straps! Get a jerb!” But it’s the reality of American business if we want and need growth. And again that growth is necessary to bring DEI people to the table.
I guess I just see such a glaring need for UBI that I have a blind spot myself, but it doesn’t help when posters like you want to over simplify really complex issues and then fail to even consider secondary and tertiary aspects of problems and impacts.

I’ve probably posted some version of “our interconnected economy is in incredibly complex system” 1000 times on this board, so spare me that particular lecture. There are literally thousands upon thousands of material inputs, some we can control and many we cannot.
But the macro truths remain: we are still an incredibly productive society, creating incredible wealth, and everyone’s share of that wealth, except for the top few percent, has declined in the past 40 years, at the same time that our social and political investment in our people has declined. That’s a broad social and political choice, and it’s a shitty one. And we’re paying the price, across the board.

[Sawbonz 27583]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

It's obviously not ideal, but being on the right side of the chart helps.  I'm sure the folks riding the blue line would disagree. 

I got mine fuck you right?