Class Warfare

[F250 28691]

Let us have a discussion on the struggle between classes.

 

[F250 28691]

I fucked up the poll.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

I fucked up the poll.

Don't care.  Had vote.

[Hookah Horns 3082]

3 questions for the price of 2, sweet. 

[Bullneck 18987]

The two existential threats to the US and all other countries are climate change and income inequity.  

[David Dennison 18661]

“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

LBJ knew.

[B00M 6280]

I see I'm the lone no vote on Q1.

The income inequality has accelerated, stratification exists, cost of housing doubled in a couple years, but what evidence is there for a "tectonic shift" in "tension" between classes?

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by B00M

[F250 28691]

41 minutes ago, B00M said:

I see I'm the lone no vote on Q1.

The income inequality has accelerated, stratification exists, cost of housing doubled in a couple years, but what evidence is there for a "tectonic shift" in "tension" between classes?

 

 

Personally, I think the tension is being redirected in the form of Right Wing nationalist populism. MAGA/America First and the move towards ill-liberalism is massive shift in American politics.

Up until recently both parties operated within the framework of classical liberalism. Now one party does not.

 

 

[Upgrayedd 5806]

I vote for more better grammar

[SKJ 1305]

I vote better for more grammar. And class struggle. And polls.

But seriously,  the government is night and paid for.  If there was ever a time for the powerless to revolt,  it was years ago. 

Buncha pussies in this country

[956 Worldwide 34444]

I would vote that elites across the political and business spectrum have mostly successfully defused the potential of real class tension. And to be clear, I don’t think this way in terms of a grand conspiracy of a shadowy cabal, I think instead that they are following their own political instincts and that they even believe they are working against each other. 
 

- The left/technocratic/international corporate class has chosen to respond to genuine discontent by focusing on topics of diversity/equity/inclusion but only in a limited way.  They encourage focus on injustice directed against racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities to the exclusion of growing income inequity— thereby encouraging lower class non-minorities to view this as “not our fight.” They work to increase diversity within the managerial and technocratic class— but notably they do NOT seek to expand that class or improve overall standards for the class below.  Admissions at elite colleges is a good analogy— Harvard and Yale will improve the diversity of entering freshmen classes but they won’t dip into their endowment to simply make those entering classes notably bigger or support real efforts to make other colleges affordable to all.  
 

- The right and less international corporate class seeks to encourage nasty right-wing populism and racial resentment among those who are not the beneficiaries of racial/sexual justice reforms but who nevertheless see their real living standards slipping.  They much more explicitly frame the fight as “us against them” and prevent non-minorities from asking the question “why don’t we expand these programs to help me too,” and instead just to demand their axe. 
 

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to racial justice and improved diversity, it’s critical.  What I am pointing out here is that the loudest elite voices in business and government are suspiciously focused on those aspects they are notably low-cost to elites as a class or individually. 
 

TL;DR for most of the lower class issues of justice and equality have been successfully reframed as a fight between subgroups and that will block any real effort to expand the middle class or improve the lives of the lower class. 

[David Dennison 18661]

Both parties are made up of neoliberal cheerleaders for capitalism. That means labor always takes a back seat to capital in this country. 

[Bullneck 18987]

15 hours ago, F250 said:

Personally, I think the tension is being redirected in the form of Right Wing nationalist populism. MAGA/America First and the move towards ill-liberalism is massive shift in American politics.

Up until recently both parties operated within the framework of classical liberalism. Now one party does not.

 

 

My thinking, too.

[South Austin 52144]

I does like Engrish.

[BrickHorn 18194]

The third question is for you, Karl Marx: The Hammers. The Hammers is the nickname of what English football team?

[Bateshorn 9905]

I’m not saying I’m pro guillotine. But I am guillotine curious. 

[Pods 7530]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m not saying I’m pro guillotine. But I am guillotine curious. 

We could put a slide underneath it with bowling pins at the end of the slide, or just let 'em roll for distance.

Televise it and set up some gambling action. We could pay off part of the debt. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

14 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I would vote that elites across the political and business spectrum have mostly successfully defused the potential of real class tension. And to be clear, I don’t think this way in terms of a grand conspiracy of a shadowy cabal, I think instead that they are following their own political instincts and that they even believe they are working against each other. 
 

- The left/technocratic/international corporate class has chosen to respond to genuine discontent by focusing on topics of diversity/equity/inclusion but only in a limited way.  They encourage focus on injustice directed against racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities to the exclusion of growing income inequity— thereby encouraging lower class non-minorities to view this as “not our fight.” They work to increase diversity within the managerial and technocratic class— but notably they do NOT seek to expand that class or improve overall standards for the class below.  Admissions at elite colleges is a good analogy— Harvard and Yale will improve the diversity of entering freshmen classes but they won’t dip into their endowment to simply make those entering classes notably bigger or support real efforts to make other colleges affordable to all.  
 

- The right and less international corporate class seeks to encourage nasty right-wing populism and racial resentment among those who are not the beneficiaries of racial/sexual justice reforms but who nevertheless see their real living standards slipping.  They much more explicitly frame the fight as “us against them” and prevent non-minorities from asking the question “why don’t we expand these programs to help me too,” and instead just to demand their axe. 
 

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to racial justice and improved diversity, it’s critical.  What I am pointing out here is that the loudest elite voices in business and government are suspiciously focused on those aspects they are notably low-cost to elites as a class or individually. 
 

TL;DR for most of the lower class issues of justice and equality have been successfully reframed as a fight between subgroups and that will block any real effort to expand the middle class or improve the lives of the lower class. 

Rep not enough, this is really well put.

[George Clooney 378]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Both parties are made up of neoliberal cheerleaders for capitalism. That means labor always takes a back seat to capital in this country. 

Yeah it's pretty disheartening to think about. The culture war on and off the internet is a very useful toy for the fat cats to play with.

[Neonmoon 38127]

For centuries, the poors would rise up against the rich and demand better treatment. In the US, the rich successfully convinced half the poors that all their problems were caused by the immigrants and blacks. 
 

 

 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

19 hours ago, David Dennison said:

“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

LBJ knew.

And the magnificent bastard was also cynical enough to realize that he needed to make ringworm-ridden tow-headed Appalachian tots the poster children for his War on Poverty.

Couching it as a racial issue plays into he hands of the billionaires and is the surest way to see that nothing is ever done about it.

Edited May 14, 2022 by MaybeACoordinator

[F250 28691]

4 hours ago, South Austin said:

I does like Engrish.

It was a combination of quickly working my way through two bottles of wine and the Surl timing out when I tried to post. lol I remember the wave of a strong buzz hitting as I posted and thought "ah fuck it, they will figure it out. Oh, my pizza is ready."

 

[RomaVicta 29794]

To me, the class struggle is over. The super-wealthy, 

won. Again.

I guess they know they're all safe as the little people speed full out in big pick-up trucks purchased with 6-year loans towards over-heated oblivion. 

Class warfare seems almost quaint. Global warming is on a non-stop path floating on a cloud of denial. The United States republic is rotting from the inside with the main agents of rot sure that they are saving it.

[fattyflattie 4636]

4 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

purchased with 6-year loans

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

[RomaVicta 29794]

34 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

It's fucking nuts. What was the line in Fight Club? We go to jobs we hate to buy shit we don't need. Truth.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

Those are gonna be sweet w inflation fueled interest rates.  The ledge?  We can’t even afford no stinking ledge.   

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m not saying I’m pro guillotine. But I am guillotine curious. 

Just use it on both sides of town, if you will...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

Well you got the payment you asked for...

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

It's fucking nuts. What was the line in Fight Club? We go to jobs we hate to buy shit we don't need. Truth.

Troof

7 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Those are gonna be sweet w inflation fueled interest rates.  The ledge?  We can’t even afford no stinking ledge.   

I’m hoping so badly it’ll slow it down. Instead,  I think we’ll see 12 yr notes. All about making that payment. 

6 hours ago, slorch said:

Well you got the payment you asked for...

And that’s it. Couple of years ago I was down in POC a lot. And there were always 5-6 ~150k KR/Plat/SCB rigs running around.  Now, there’s about 20 there any given weekend, but it’s now a 250k rig.  Just nuts.  The preowned market has been such that if you got in at right time, these historically depreciating assets have actually appreciated, and strongly.  Preowned truck prices aren’t just high, they are literally over what the owner paid several years and 100k miles ago.  And it’s causing (idiots) to believe this is sustainable.  So give me that 110k 350 on a 9-year, I’ll sell it in 2 years for 115 smdh. 

[Beau Vine 54003]

20 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

The third question is for you, Karl Marx: The Hammers. The Hammers is the nickname of what English football team?

Jesus christ, I literally spewed my drink everywhere.

[David Dennison 18661]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:15 AM, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

Fifteen year boat loans say, "Hold my beer."

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:15 AM, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

I know vehicles last longer these days, but Jesus that's nuts.

Only thing we do is buy new and keep for at least ten years.

[fattyflattie 4636]

26 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Fifteen year boat loans say, "Hold my beer."

Yep.  Those have been around for at least decade or so though.  I remember 120mo boat loans when I was a kid (in the magazines).  But back then 50k got you one hell of a bay boat. 150k now. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I paid something like $10k for my first bay boat and trailer.  Was 8 years old.  20 foot center console Gulf Coast with a 150 Yamaha TRP (great motor).  Ran great and caught lots of fish in it.  $150k for a center console bay boat seems nuts to me.

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

$150k for a center console bay boat seems nuts to me.

It is. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

I'm down with any discussion involving Techtonic!

 

[Sbbruin 21738]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:15 PM, fattyflattie said:

Lol. I’ve heard up to 9 now. 9. Year. Auto. Loan. 

Rocko: 

[Ojo Rojo 1906]

On 5/14/2022 at 3:38 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

I would vote that elites across the political and business spectrum have mostly successfully defused the potential of real class tension. And to be clear, I don’t think this way in terms of a grand conspiracy of a shadowy cabal, I think instead that they are following their own political instincts and that they even believe they are working against each other. 
 

- The left/technocratic/international corporate class has chosen to respond to genuine discontent by focusing on topics of diversity/equity/inclusion but only in a limited way.  They encourage focus on injustice directed against racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities to the exclusion of growing income inequity— thereby encouraging lower class non-minorities to view this as “not our fight.” They work to increase diversity within the managerial and technocratic class— but notably they do NOT seek to expand that class or improve overall standards for the class below.  Admissions at elite colleges is a good analogy— Harvard and Yale will improve the diversity of entering freshmen classes but they won’t dip into their endowment to simply make those entering classes notably bigger or support real efforts to make other colleges affordable to all.  
 

- The right and less international corporate class seeks to encourage nasty right-wing populism and racial resentment among those who are not the beneficiaries of racial/sexual justice reforms but who nevertheless see their real living standards slipping.  They much more explicitly frame the fight as “us against them” and prevent non-minorities from asking the question “why don’t we expand these programs to help me too,” and instead just to demand their axe. 
 

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to racial justice and improved diversity, it’s critical.  What I am pointing out here is that the loudest elite voices in business and government are suspiciously focused on those aspects they are notably low-cost to elites as a class or individually. 
 

TL;DR for most of the lower class issues of justice and equality have been successfully reframed as a fight between subgroups and that will block any real effort to expand the middle class or improve the lives of the lower class. 

Pretty spot on. I would add that the wealthy, left or right, mostly act in ways to increase or protect their wealth. Just as you say, the wealthy on the left are doing things that don't cost them much and don't address the bigger problem. To me, the overall problem can be summarized simply: "For too long too many have acted in their own  self-interest to the detriment of what is good for all."  At some point someone is going to have to pay the piper. There was equilibrium before because politicians and the people in power operated on the functional equivalent of one of my favorite axioms, "Pigs get fat; hogs get slaughtered." Basically, you can milk the system a little bit and get plenty rich as long as you do enough actual governing and good in the world to prevent open revolt of the lower classes. I think the limits have been tested and many have realized they don't actually have to do the governing and good in the world part or restrain their grift in the slightest. Trump showed them all how it's done.

[RDCanecutter 26282]

1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm down with any discussion involving Techtonic!

 

A DJ friend and I used that song in a radio ad for a newspaper in a small town in the Smokies. I don't know if we increased subscriptions but we sure got some letters to the editor.

[RDCanecutter 26282]

I don't think the US has a class problem since by consensus we demand that everyone be low class. But yes, there's definitely some problems with how the rich low class get along with the poor low class.

One of you scurry along now and figure out how to fit what I just said into that survey.

[Hermanator 6944]

On 5/14/2022 at 3:38 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

I would vote that elites across the political and business spectrum have mostly successfully defused the potential of real class tension. And to be clear, I don’t think this way in terms of a grand conspiracy of a shadowy cabal, I think instead that they are following their own political instincts and that they even believe they are working against each other. 
 

- The left/technocratic/international corporate class has chosen to respond to genuine discontent by focusing on topics of diversity/equity/inclusion but only in a limited way.  They encourage focus on injustice directed against racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities to the exclusion of growing income inequity— thereby encouraging lower class non-minorities to view this as “not our fight.” They work to increase diversity within the managerial and technocratic class— but notably they do NOT seek to expand that class or improve overall standards for the class below.  Admissions at elite colleges is a good analogy— Harvard and Yale will improve the diversity of entering freshmen classes but they won’t dip into their endowment to simply make those entering classes notably bigger or support real efforts to make other colleges affordable to all.  
 

- The right and less international corporate class seeks to encourage nasty right-wing populism and racial resentment among those who are not the beneficiaries of racial/sexual justice reforms but who nevertheless see their real living standards slipping.  They much more explicitly frame the fight as “us against them” and prevent non-minorities from asking the question “why don’t we expand these programs to help me too,” and instead just to demand their axe. 
 

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to racial justice and improved diversity, it’s critical.  What I am pointing out here is that the loudest elite voices in business and government are suspiciously focused on those aspects they are notably low-cost to elites as a class or individually. 
 

TL;DR for most of the lower class issues of justice and equality have been successfully reframed as a fight between subgroups and that will block any real effort to expand the middle class or improve the lives of the lower class. 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdGVDKT5/?k=1