Texas Energy Choice - Energy Ogre - Breeze Energy

[closetojumping 62880]

So, if you were on the "Can You Help Me With This?" board on shaggy, you might remember the Energy Ogre thread. Here's the link: http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/showthread.php/159079-Anyone-have-experience-with-Energy-Ogre

EnergyOgre for the past year+ has participated in routing customers to what amounts to a "too good to be true" offer for a small Retail Electricity Provider (REP) called Breeze Energy. It appears to have been a pretty cozy deal, as I can't find another place in which Breeze was acquiring customers other than PowerToChoose. Breeze claims to have not been paying EO for the customer flow, but within the industry, the EO is believed to be that they're getting paid coming and going, via the REP and the customer. I don't know if that is true or not, so maybe they just love Breeze and have been funneling people their way due solely to the pricing from that REP.

Anyway, Bernard poured it on pretty hard and went so far as to call the TexasElectricityRatings poster an incompetent on the second page of the linked thread above. Full disclosure, I know the TER poster and I know the business, but I do not work there. I have extensive background in the space but do not currently work in it directly. 

Well, fast forward to today, when it is announced that Breeze Energy has gone belly up. It's the largest REP failure in the Texas market in almost a decade, even if it is just less than 10,000 customers. Having been in the space, it's no joke and a big boy/big girl game, but failing in this way, ahead of the summer, is a shocking show of incompetence, frankly.

All of the customers who are with Breeze, will be rolled to a Provider Of Last Resort (POLR), where they'll be put on a variable plan and charged as significantly higher rate than what they were previously on. Because of high pricing in the market, even switching over to a new fixed rate with someone will be costly. That all said, the Texas competitive market has kicked ass for years with the lowest rates in the country. Due to the summer weather expectations this year, current prices are high but in line with CPS and Austin Energy and will fall off again after August. 

I'm sure if you run over to Energy Ogre, they'll hook you up with another offer of something too good to be true.

Anyway, it's news, and I am amused by the history within this posting community. Here's the link to the news of Breeze failing: http://www.energychoicematters.com/stories/20180530zzz.html

[tokamak 6442]

I always wondered what happens if/when these REPs fail. For the past couple years we've been using one that seems like it's basically just run by a dude with a PO box (Discount Power, very creative company name). So far so good but I've always kinda expected them to blink out of business some day.

 

Lots of shadiness in this business, it seems. PowerToChoose is a good idea in theory, and can be very useful if you're smart and educate yourself on what you're actually looking at, but most of the headline numbers on there are manipulated, misleading bullshit. Just typed in my ZIP code and I get a big ol' "2.6 cents!!!" in my face. Lulz, right.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13527]

PowerToChoose was good in the early days before some of the electricial providers realized that they could get away with being fairly misleading in displaying their plans.  note:  I think they're being truthful but they structure their plans so that it's next to impossible to ever pay the rates on PTC.    It's 2.6 cents for every kilowatt hour as long as you hit exactly 1000kwh.  1 above or below and it jumps to 15 cents for the entire month.

FYI, while the deregulated markets look to be a great deal for consumers, consumers have made bad choices in Texas and actually pay more in the deregulated areas as opposed to the regulated markets.  Strange how that worked out.

[Guest]

I onced used a company called Apollo Light and Energy out of Denton Texas that went belly up on me. That's all I got. Seems like its an easy enough business to start but hard to make any money in. Like energy drinks.

[closetojumping 62880]

59 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

FYI, while the deregulated markets look to be a great deal for consumers, consumers have made bad choices in Texas and actually pay more in the deregulated areas as opposed to the regulated markets.  Strange how that worked out.

Yeah, that's factually incorrect, and has been since 2007. It's been over a decade with the lowest rates in the country and, to some degree, the world. You're not even close with that take. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13527]

Seems like most consumers are either rate chasers or traditional/lazy/uninterested.   The rate chasers will join the new companies that offer promo deals where the providers are almost assuredly losing money or making very little.  Then the consumers will move on when the promo ends.  The traditional buyers will care less about switching from Reliant, TXU, etc.    

[closetojumping 62880]

1 hour ago, tokamak said:

I always wondered what happens if/when these REPs fail. For the past couple years we've been using one that seems like it's basically just run by a dude with a PO box (Discount Power, very creative company name). So far so good but I've always kinda expected them to blink out of business some day.

 

Lots of shadiness in this business, it seems. PowerToChoose is a good idea in theory, and can be very useful if you're smart and educate yourself on what you're actually looking at, but most of the headline numbers on there are manipulated, misleading bullshit. Just typed in my ZIP code and I get a big ol' "2.6 cents!!!" in my face. Lulz, right.

We always used to ignore PowerToChoose as a distraction to our business when I worked in the space, but many REPs have no clue about doing anything well online, so they view PowerToChoose as their only online "strategy" and now the site is a total clusterfuck, overrun by a bunch of bullshit offers from REPs who are playing a "buyers buy on price only" mindset, which is incorrect but for about 15-20% of any aggregated group of buyers.

[LonghornJones 837]

where are you getting your energy? its a simple question. where are you getting your energy in this world? energy is becoming more and more and more of a factor in in everybody's world. everybody's world. id like to direct you to a new client we have on this station named choose energy. choose energy is an absolutely fantastic way of getting your energy in this world. choose energy allows you to choose the company you want. choose the company you want to deliver your energy. choose energy gives you fantastic choices in the energy area and its up to you to simply look at the choices and determine which one is best for you. choose energy will hear a lot more about in the coming days on our station. choose energy is a way to save you money. choose energy is the way of the future enabling you to choose the energy source you want. the one that works best for you. the one that saves the most energy money. choose energy.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

I get my energy from the crystals I surround myself with at all times. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13527]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Yeah, that's factually incorrect, and has been since 2007. It's been over a decade with the lowest rates in the country and, to some degree, the world. You're not even close with that take. 

Where did I say that deregulated Texas rates are among the highest in the world?    You really misinterpreted my statement.

I said that most Texans in the deregulated areas are paying higher amounts than Texans in the regulated markets.  Basically comparing most of Texas to Austin and SA.    For some unknown reason, the deregulated consumers are choosing to pay more than needed.  They're either really bad at making choices or they're too lazy.  Maybe both.      My mom fell into this category.  I tried to move her to a better plan but she like her electric company because they made it easy for her.  Now I that control more of her finances, she's amazed how cheap electricity has become.  Funny how that works out.

[closetojumping 62880]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Seems like most consumers are either rate chasers or traditional/lazy/uninterested.   The rate chasers will join the new companies that offer promo deals where the providers are almost assuredly losing money or making very little.  Then the consumers will move on when the promo ends.  The traditional buyers will care less about switching from Reliant, TXU, etc.    

It's pretty easy to take any provider's posted rates and then compare them, apples to apples, to CPS, Austin Energy, Xcel, Entergy, ComEd, ConEd, PG&E, APS, etc. If you're paying for electricity in the US, you'd prefer to be in Houston or Dallas versus damn near anywhere else. 

Some folks have never switched from Reliant or TXU as their incumbent. That's a dwindling lot as they're literally dying out. Almost 70% of the market has now switched. There are numerous choices to be made, whether on price, service, term type, rewards program, refer-a-friend program, whatever. All of them are better deals than what any monopoly is offering. This is also reflected in the JD Power scores, which had the competitive aggregated score over 15 points higher than the highest rated utility in terms of customer satisfaction. 

There's undoubtedly bad actors in the space at any given point in time. It's an open market. That said, the competitive retail energy story in Texas is a fucking grand slam case study in dereg at this point. The first 6 years were filled with growing pains and separating wheat from chaff, but the market has delivered huge savings and customer experiences versus the monopolistic entities for over a decade.

[closetojumping 62880]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Where did I say that deregulated Texas rates are among the highest in the world?    You really misinterpreted my statement.

I said that most Texans in the deregulated areas are paying higher amounts than Texans in the regulated markets.  Basically comparing most of Texas to Austin and SA.    For some unknown reason, the deregulated consumers are choosing to pay more than needed.  They're either really bad at making choices or they're too lazy.  Maybe both.      My mom fell into this category.  I tried to move her to a better plan but she like her electric company because they made it easy for her.  Now I that control more of her finances, she's amazed how cheap electricity has become.  Funny how that works out.

My point was that your one person anecdote doesn't translate to the market as a whole. Consumers in Houston and Dallas are paying less than the regulated areas of Texas over the past 11 years. Yes, there are oldsters who never switched. Everyone else has, and they're the majority benefiting from the market.

[bernorange 8366]

FYI, related to the Breeze story:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/breeze-energy-shutdown-leaves-nearly-10k-customers-in-limbo

[Nice Guy Eddie 13527]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

My point was that your one person anecdote doesn't translate to the market as a whole. Consumers in Houston and Dallas are paying less than the regulated areas of Texas over the past 11 years. Yes, there are oldsters who never switched. Everyone else has, and they're the majority benefiting from the market.

Can you show proof that Houston and Dallas consumer pay less?  I don't mean that cheaper plans are available but actually how much they pay.  I understand that they have cheaper plans available but if they fail to act, regulation may have been better for them.

San Antonio news article from last week stating that the deregulated areas pay more:  https://www.expressnews.com/business/eagle-ford-energy/article/Deregulated-electricty-markets-paying-more-12935019.php

Quote

Consumers in Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Corpus Christi were promised bargains on electricity when the Texas Legislature deregulated the electricity market. But 16 years later, they’re still paying more for electricity than their counterparts in cities Texas lawmakers exempted from deregulation such as San Antonio and Austin, according to the Texas Coalition for Affordable Power, which analyzed federal electricity pricing data.

That means that customers in deregulated markets paid an average of $5,500 more for electricity over a 14-year time span beginning in 2002, according to the group that buys electricity on behalf of municipal governments in Texas. The calculation, which uses data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, assumes monthly electricity use of 1,300 kilowatt hours.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Nice Guy Eddie

[deadshank 24653]

Well, darn.  Have been a Breeze customer for a year now.

Thanks, Obama.

[closetojumping 62880]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

San Antonio news article from last week stating that the deregulated areas pay more:  https://www.expressnews.com/business/eagle-ford-energy/article/Deregulated-electricty-markets-paying-more-12935019.php

 

 

Oh Christ. It's a TCAP discussion. Look, I'm not going to tumble down this agenda-driven rabbit hole with you. I realize you're not pushing an agenda, just a newspaper article, but the origins are agenda-driven. The numbers and assumptions they're using are faulty, they're using a false premise with the "if you never switched" scenario, and they've selected an arbitrary timeline even still to suit their needs. 

The reality is that if you switched power in 2008 and beyond, and then chose to do so again and again at various points in time in the future, you'd be winning in Houston and DFW versus SA or Austin or anywhere else in the country. If you can't grasp that in the macro, ask yourself about the circumstances in the micro. If you're in a competitive space right now and have been, would you rather continue to be so, or would you trade for Austin Energy, Entergy (The Woodlands), or CPS? It also works vice versa. The answer is, no, you wouldn't want to be in those monopoly footprints, not now, not last year, not a decade ago. And this is only considering price. Take into account features, services, experience (wait times, mobile, apps, bill pay, transfer) and there isn't even a vague fucking contest. 

Either you're arguing to argue, or you're underinformed and willfully so. Either way, it's fucking tedious. The original point of the thread was a response to the praise heaped onto the REP Breeze and the service Energy Ogre from participants on this board and shaggy, you included, in the context of the news today that Breeze has been poorly run and is closing shop in the market and those staying with them are about to be rolled big time. 

[Guest]

Who is this closet jumping guy who seems to know a little bit about energy and how do I sign up for this newsletter

[Nice Guy Eddie 13527]

I think Energy Ogre is a ridiculous service so don't throw me into the group that heaped praise on them.   Personally I don't mind spending a few minutes figuring out the plan that is best for me.  I also like the deregulated market but I also recognize that most don't take advantage of it.  It's actually the other way around.   But that is something for politicians to worry about.

[Fudge Nuggets 19227]

I wonder if OP can work in the phrase “the space” one more time?  Because that would be just fucking great.

[SydneyCarton 48200]

2 hours ago, LonghornJones said:

where are you getting your energy? its a simple question. where are you getting your energy in this world? energy is becoming more and more and more of a factor in in everybody's world. everybody's world. id like to direct you to a new client we have on this station named choose energy. choose energy is an absolutely fantastic way of getting your energy in this world. choose energy allows you to choose the company you want. choose the company you want to deliver your energy. choose energy gives you fantastic choices in the energy area and its up to you to simply look at the choices and determine which one is best for you. choose energy will hear a lot more about in the coming days on our station. choose energy is a way to save you money. choose energy is the way of the future enabling you to choose the energy source you want. the one that works best for you. the one that saves the most energy money. choose energy.

What in the actual fuck is THIS shit? Our Station? Haxxor. 

 

[tokamak 6442]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

We always used to ignore PowerToChoose as a distraction to our business when I worked in the space, but many REPs have no clue about doing anything well online, so they view PowerToChoose as their only online "strategy" and now the site is a total clusterfuck, overrun by a bunch of bullshit offers from REPs who are playing a "buyers buy on price only" mindset, which is incorrect but for about 15-20% of any aggregated group of buyers.

Out of curiousity, what else would someone buy electricity on other than price? It's literally a commodity. If I ever have any problem, I call Centerpoint, not my REP. The entire extent of my involvement with the REP is they email me a bill every month, I glance at it, then the charge hits my credit card a few days later.

[Nivek 16988]

1 hour ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Who is this closet jumping guy who seems to know a little bit about energy and how do I sign up for this newsletter

His real name is Ju Ping Klose II  He is Somali.  

[C-Man 27280]

40 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Out of curiousity, what else would someone buy electricity on other than price? It's literally a commodity. If I ever have any problem, I call Centerpoint, not my REP. The entire extent of my involvement with the REP is they email me a bill every month, I glance at it, then the charge hits my credit card a few days later.

This right here. Just moved mine over to a month-to-month, no termination fee plan while I figure out the best place to be long-term. With 100+ degree weather in the cards for the next 7-10 days, that bill in the Last Resort pool could've gotten hella ugly.

[C-Man 27280]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

What in the actual fuck is THIS shit? Our Station? Haxxor. 

 

Ticket schtick, pal.

[closetojumping 62880]

34 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Out of curiousity, what else would someone buy electricity on other than price? It's literally a commodity. If I ever have any problem, I call Centerpoint, not my REP. The entire extent of my involvement with the REP is they email me a bill every month, I glance at it, then the charge hits my credit card a few days later.

Buyers are liars. Almost every person ever to make a purchase will go in claiming that they're buying on price. Only about 15-20% of the gen pop actually does. That group, however, is the narrowest thinking of any of the segments and they're usually shocked and/or in permanent denial that anyone makes buying decisions but for price. This segment mostly self-selects into careers that lend themselves well to cut and dried certainty and little room for concepts like chaos or creativity. This segment is usually tax and regulatory lawyers, accountants, engineers, traders, and scientist/doctors. Which profession did you choose?

"But it's just a commodity!?" can be said about Gold, Groceries, Cell Phone Service, Coffee, Chocolate, Pork, Beef, Energy, TV Service, Tiles, Cars, you name it. Yet somehow, in all of those industries, and virtually all others, companies have made fortunes appealing to the market with their products and services with something other than a price play. Not everyone wins with a Walmart or Amazon play (and frankly, Amazon is winning as much on convenience as they are on price at this point).

I've seen tens of millions of data points at a proprietary level across many different services including electricity in which I've looked at what the consumer bought and what else was also available through the experience in the same category at the same time. Seeing the data is stark in what it reveals. It turns out, people buy for many reasons, and price is but one. Promotion, brand, customer service reputation, position on the monitor or with the salesman, length of term, add-ons, bundles, referrals, testimonials, you name it. 

I'm not trying to convince you, just trying to provide background. You can read up on this stuff at a rudimentary level if you go and check out some write-ups on persona-based sales, albeit those are dumbed down and often fail to even understand why they're focusing on differentiating buyers in the first place. 

[C-Man 27280]

16 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

"But it's just a commodity!?" can be said about Gold, Groceries, Cell Phone Service, Coffee, Chocolate, Pork, Beef, Energy, TV Service, Tiles, Cars, you name it. Yet somehow, in all of those industries, and virtually all others, companies have made fortunes appealing to the market with their products and services with something other than a price play. Not everyone wins with a Walmart or Amazon play (and frankly, Amazon is winning as much on convenience as they are on price at this point).

Yes, but most of what you have listed as commodities come in varying qualities. Or are you going to argue that Select beef is just as good as Prime or Wagyu?

Electricity in Texas is going to be the same regardless of the name on your statement. You can have fully renewable and things like that but the actual source that is keeping the lights on so to speak, is the exact same. No reason to pay Cadillac prices for electricity in Texas -- unless you want to. Or am I missing something?

Edited May 31, 2018 by C-Man

[Damor 1237]

Bummer.  I was pleased with Breeze as far as reasonable pricing and clear usage information.  Probably unsustainable.

Are any of the alternatives to Power to Choose any good, or are they all variations on theme of steering you to certain providers?

[closetojumping 62880]

13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Yes, but most of what you have listed as commodities come in varying qualities. Or are you going to argue that Select beef is just as good as Prime or Wagyu?

Electricity in Texas is going to be the same regardless of the name on your statement. You can have fully renewable and things like that but the actual source that is keeping the lights on so to speak, is the exact same. No reason to pay Cadillac prices for electricity in Texas -- unless you want to. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the part where I've accounted for all of the other reasons of why people buy power other than the lowest price. This is a pretty straightforward process. Either you believe that all buyers in the market are buying the lowest priced provider because they only care about that as "it's just a commodity", or you acknowledge that millions of customers have bought for reasons other than price, examples of which I've already enumerated. If you can't acknowledge or understand the latter, then there's not a starting point for us to have any kind of reasoned discussion. It's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la-la-la-la-la" while an adult tries to show walk you through additional sets of data counter to your own thinking. 

Also, I was thinking you were a journalist or something from posts of years gone by. Is that incorrect? Are you actually something like an engineer, actuary, accountant, etc? See above in my response to tokamak. If you're only going to choose to see the world through your buying lens, you're of course going to never understand that others behave differently, largely because it impedes upon your buttoned up worldview. 

[xoringe 3]

I’d summarize it like this:

Deregulation transfers the electricity procurement responsibility from a single PUC to millions of [largely uninformed and unmotivated] Texans. As a result, savvy shoppers can pay less than their peers in regulated areas, but the _average_ Texan with the “power to choose” actually pays more. (That’s according to the EIA data referenced by the Chronicle article and TCAP. I’ll entertain other data if/when someone points me to another source.) Certainly some of that is consumer inattention, but much is due to the rate gamesmanship and marketing gimmicks that many retailers employ to take advantage of those less skilled at the “game”. The better shopping services just help level the playing field.

[C-Man 27280]

55 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Yes, you're missing the part where I've accounted for all of the other reasons of why people buy power other than the lowest price. This is a pretty straightforward process. Either you believe that all buyers in the market are buying the lowest priced provider because they only care about that as "it's just a commodity", or you acknowledge that millions of customers have bought for reasons other than price, examples of which I've already enumerated. If you can't acknowledge or understand the latter, then there's not a starting point for us to have any kind of reasoned discussion. It's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la-la-la-la-la" while an adult tries to show walk you through additional sets of data counter to your own thinking. 

Also, I was thinking you were a journalist or something from posts of years gone by. Is that incorrect? Are you actually something like an engineer, actuary, accountant, etc? See above in my response to tokamak. If you're only going to choose to see the world through your buying lens, you're of course going to never understand that others behave differently, largely because it impedes upon your buttoned up worldview. 

I was a sportswriter many, many moons ago but I'm in the P&C insurance business now. My point was simply that there's a reason why somebody would choose to spend more on a Prime ribeye than a select ribeye because the quality is discernible. Electricity -- in deregulated areas -- is basically the same. It's electricity. The shit in my house is the exact same as what is in my neighbor's house other than a different company billing me. Oncor handles the service work. (Again, I know some is 100% wind or sustainable vs not and so on) but the only thing different is maybe a level of service provided by that company. The product is the same, i.e. a "commodity. Yes?

[C-Man 27280]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Also, I was thinking you were a journalist or something from posts of years gone by. Is that incorrect? Are you actually something like an engineer, actuary, accountant, etc? See above in my response to tokamak. If you're only going to choose to see the world through your buying lens, you're of course going to never understand that others behave differently, largely because it impedes upon your buttoned up worldview. 

I think we're arguing two different points -- hey it's Surly and all, it's what we do! -- but I get what you're saying. Buyers aren't all buying electricity on price. But they probably should be because what I'm saying -- and I think tokamak is saying -- is that there's no reason to not treat electricity in deregulated areas of the state as anything other than let me choose the plan that charges me the least. Everything is select-grade steak, there is no Wagyu, Prime or Choice.

I was with Breeze for 4 or so years because a buddy was a co-owner, the rates were good and there was no BS behind-the-scenes charges. I could care less if he was paying Energy Ogre for referrals -- I wasn't using that service. Sad that it's gone because I liked it and I didn't have to continually shop knowing I was being treated fairly. 

[closetojumping 62880]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I think we're arguing two different points -- hey it's Surly and all, it's what we do! -- but I get what you're saying. Buyers aren't all buying electricity on price. But they probably should be because what I'm saying -- and I think tokamak is saying -- is that there's no reason to not treat electricity in deregulated areas of the state as anything other than let me choose the plan that charges me the least. Everything is select-grade steak, there is no Wagyu, Prime or Choice.

I was with Breeze for 4 or so years because a buddy was a co-owner, the rates were good and there was no BS behind-the-scenes charges. I could care less if he was paying Energy Ogre for referrals -- I wasn't using that service. Sad that it's gone because I liked it and I didn't have to continually shop knowing I was being treated fairly. 

The reality is that electricity is a service. Calling it a commodity might work in certain context, but you're getting a service. The service isn't just the charge of power into the home. It's the billing, the problem resolution, the heaps of data that can be derived from the power into your home if you have a smart meter and/or smart devices. It's the mobile app, the partnership offers the provider brings, the long term contracts or short term price arbs you can select into, etc. That service occurs at a much higher level in the competitive space than the competition. It's no different in that respect than getting your haircut. You can go into Supercuts and get one kind of service, and you can go into a place like The Board Room and get a totally different experience. You're getting your haircut either way. Same as your steak premise. Given that you cannot source the "commodity" yourself, no, it's not just a commodity and never has been.

On a separate note, it's simply not actually a commodity. You can easily store all other commodities. Power is basically use it or lose it until battery tech comes within light years of the hype, which isn't right now. Also, there's not another commodity in the world than have a 15 minute price spike from $30 to $9000 and that happens with electricity. You won't ever see that in gas, gold, oil, coffee, you name it. I contend electricity isn't and never had been a commodity and offers its own complexities to consumers accordingly, but it's a tangent in this discussion.

[swraith 347]

Just chiming in to back up closetojumping. I have spent unfathomable hours at our company with sales executives who are trying to sell our commodity product on any basis other than price. A significant segment of the population shops for the lowest price energy. But a much larger segment of the population does not. Should they? Probably, but it is a personal choice. I myself would fall into the shop on price category. But entire brands are being built either around

1) higher priced commodity tied to a high quality customer service experience based on the billing side. Not customer service of guaranteeing the lights stay on.

2) higher priced commodity based on some affinity or social justice cause. This could be green energy or any other product packaging.

3) higher priced commodity based on some upfront incentive like a free thermostat, gift card, or some other hook.

The list of marketing idea goes on. Many REPs want to sell on lowest price because that is the easiest sale. It makes for a challenging sustainable business in the long run like is demonstrated with Breeze. Company was founded in late 2000 based on articles I saw today, but alas they are now defunct. I don’t know the details of their default but REPs normally do not openly default. Either they fire sale the company or the creditors intervene and take control of the company to avoid dropping customers to POLR. Brands have failed in years prior, just not publicly. I am making the assumption that if Breeze couldn’t firesale their customer book in front of the summer, the company was in particularly dire straights.

Sustainable growing energy retailers have to find ways to expand their unit margins. Selling the lowest price commodity is not the path to achieve that.


^^

All of the above does not apply to energy companies based on MLM strategies like Ambit or Stream. Those are different business models.

[pacman 7371]

12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

FYI, while the deregulated markets look to be a great deal for consumers, consumers have made bad choices in Texas and actually pay more in the deregulated areas as opposed to the regulated markets.  Strange how that worked out.

Guilty as charged. We let a plan lapse and somehow got switched to a plan that charged us 4x the rate. Didn't really notice through the winter/spring as we didn't have a ton of usage, and just not paying attention.

Summer hits and we start getting huge bills. They wouldn't let us get into a plan until August since we were apparently locked in to the plan/rate we never elected.

We ended up paying $1k more than we needed to over the Summer months. We fucked up and they loopholed us into a smooth butt fucking.

[bernorange 8366]

Re: the "buys on price" general discussion, I for one do shop for price, but not the simple 2,000 kwh price point PTC lists. I do look at how the plans work for real world usage to find a pool of candidates.  After that, I try to evaluate the reputation of the company offering each plan.  There are some real shitty companies out there with terrible billing practices, customer support (to fix their billing crap), etc.  I try to avoid that mess. 

[Viper 12112]

I'm curious, in this post freeze Texas energy market, is energy ogre still worth it? Or do their cheaper competitors offer better value? Do increasing oil/natural gas prices mean a long term contract would be better right now?

[TurkeyChew 383]

44 minutes ago, Viper said:

I'm curious, in this post freeze Texas energy market, is energy ogre still worth it? Or do their cheaper competitors offer better value? Do increasing oil/natural gas prices mean a long term contract would be better right now?

I don’t know; do you buy on price or are you an oil painter artist?

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

I'm curious, in this post freeze Texas energy market, is energy ogre still worth it? Or do their cheaper competitors offer better value? Do increasing oil/natural gas prices mean a long term contract would be better right now?

 With the Russian War, high inflation, and whatever is coming politically here I doubt prices will drop over the next 5 to 10 years. But I'm no expert just seems that's where the winds are headed. 

For people who work in this arena where are the best rates currently? My parents plan ends in June and I'd like to find them the best rate possible.