Sick / "Work from home"

[Superhero 8828]

I work for a construction company. We get our best work done when we're working collaboratively in the office. Working from home is generally frowned upon, but we make exceptions here and there.

So we have a young kid in my department. Pretty bright, and very good at taking advantage of the situation.

 

He was "working remote" for 1-2 days a week earlier in the year until we put a stop to that. Now he gets "sick" a LOT and "works from home". There was a cold going around the office. As soon as he heard someone was sick, he'd also say he was sick and stay home. On one occasion, he said he'd work remote because his wife was sick. I understand if it's a kid, or he's taking his wife to a hospital...  It's gotten to a point where it's a distraction.

I've asked his direct manager to bring it up during their performance evaluation. The following day there was a covid case at work, he packed his bag and went home because he wasn't "feeling well" and thought it was safer to work from home.

For his career development, it makes the most sense to have him in his seat learning from the more experienced people around him - looking for more things to learn / do.

 

I'm starting to document his absences. Is this a valid issue to bring up with HR? Or should I just lean on him myself?

 

[SimonBolivar 10957]

4 minutes ago, Superhero said:

 

 

I'm starting to document his absences. Is this a valid issue to bring up with HR? Or should I just lean on him myself?

 

If you want him to have a future or believe in him then lean on him. If you want to/think you'll eventually fire him then get HR involved so that you have the proper documentation lined up when the time comes and you don't get any blow back.

[Delta Charlie 150]

 Is he getting his shit done?  Is he doing good work?  If the answer is "yes" to both, then maybe pull him aside and have a nice little chat.  If he is falling behind and missing deadlines or producing bad work, then I think you may have something for his immediate supervisor.  Bring in HR if it really gets bad.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

Fuck his wife.

[Quagmire 2147]

Sounds like a typical millennial

[Superhero 8828]

30 minutes ago, Delta Charlie said:

 Is he getting his shit done?  Is he doing good work?  If the answer is "yes" to both, then maybe pull him aside and have a nice little chat.  If he is falling behind and missing deadlines or producing bad work, then I think you may have something for his immediate supervisor.  Bring in HR if it really gets bad.

The quality of work is hit and miss. The last project we worked on together was absolutely shit. I spot checked his work and there were mistakes all over the place.

We're working on a new project. I've given him some rudimentary stuff to work on. Stuff that should take 2-3 days tops. He's totally milking it and telling his immediate supervisor that he doesn't have capacity to work on anything else.

Yeah, I'm going to have a come-to-jeebus talk with him after the current project is over.

[Parliament 14246]

5 minutes ago, Superhero said:

The quality of work is hit and miss. The last project we worked on together was absolutely shit. I spot checked his work and there were mistakes all over the place.

 

Fire him.  

[Native Horn 3499]

13 minutes ago, Superhero said:

The quality of work is hit and miss. The last project we worked on together was absolutely shit. I spot checked his work and there were mistakes all over the place.

We're working on a new project. I've given him some rudimentary stuff to work on. Stuff that should take 2-3 days tops. He's totally milking it and telling his immediate supervisor that he doesn't have capacity to work on anything else.

Yeah, I'm going to have a come-to-jeebus talk with him after the current project is over.

Well if he sucks, he sucks.  Don't waste your time coaching him.  Do him a favor and terminate.

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

If his work is slipping and he's constantly playing hooky, then yeah the answer is easy.  Light his ass up. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10229]

Pretty simple... he's got to take a personal day if he's not at the office. Though I'd go ahead and start looking for his replacement.

[deadshank 24652]

Put him in charge of job-site shit house quality control during the summer months. 

[Superhero 8828]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Pretty simple... he's got to take a personal day if he's not at the office. Though I'd go ahead and start looking for his replacement.

Yeah I told him to take a sick day when he stayed home with his wife.

He was going to do “training” from home.

 

We’re a construction company. My group has it pretty cush in the office. I’ll send him out to a job site. He’ll last 2 days there. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Superhero

[Updawg 2266]

Good luck finding a a replacement

Why so hard on remote work if he actually can do it?

[UT_OB1 2217]

1 hour ago, Updawg said:

Good luck finding a a replacement

Why so hard on remote work if he actually can do it?

Did you read the thread?  

[CooterBrown 18004]

Maybe you need to tighten up your work from home policy first. If he’s working within the confines of company rules, it’s probably not prudent to ding him because you don’t like that he follows those rules.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10229]

11 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Maybe you need to tighten up your work from home policy first. If he’s working within the confines of company rules, it’s probably not prudent to ding him because you don’t like that he follows those rules.

If he's clinging to the rules and not the spirit of the rules... I'm guessing they don't really see him working out long term as he's showing he wants to contribute on the lowest allowable level.

[Upgrayedd 5810]

5 hours ago, Superhero said:

We’re a construction company. My group has it pretty cush in the office. I’ll send him out to a job site. He’ll last 2 days there. 

There is your answer.

I'm begging to get out of the office and out to the site.  Would spend 60 hours a week out there if I could.  

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

5 hours ago, Superhero said:

We’re a construction company. My group has it pretty cush in the office. I’ll send him out to a job site. He’ll last 2 days there. 

Don’t burden your hands that actually work with this dude. Adios. We are entering tough times, you’ll be able to find a replacement that actually wants to contribute. 

[Superhero 8828]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

If he's clinging to the rules and not the spirit of the rules... I'm guessing they don't really see him working out long term as he's showing he wants to contribute on the lowest allowable level.

100% this.

 

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Don’t burden your hands that actually work with this dude. Adios. We are entering tough times, you’ll be able to find a replacement that actually wants to contribute. 

You'll be surprised how competitive it is out there to hire anyone to work in construction. Offers for kids coming into construction are pushing $80K. 

[Johnny Chimpo 478]

He probably has a second fully remote job and is working from home to ease his tasks. 
 

Half ass work on both but pulling down two salaries. 
 

It’s quite popular these days. 

[VolenteHawk 495]

16 hours ago, Superhero said:

The quality of work is hit and miss. The last project we worked on together was absolutely shit. I spot checked his work and there were mistakes all over the place.

We're working on a new project. I've given him some rudimentary stuff to work on. Stuff that should take 2-3 days tops. He's totally milking it and telling his immediate supervisor that he doesn't have capacity to work on anything else.

Yeah, I'm going to have a come-to-jeebus talk with him after the current project is over.

You don't have a remote work problem, you have a shitty employee problem.

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 hours ago, Superhero said:

You'll be surprised how competitive it is out there to hire anyone to work in construction. Offers for kids coming into construction are pushing $80K. 

No I wouldn’t at all, I’m living it. You’d be surprised how difficult it is to convince the folks in the CR of that, though. Seriously, we are speeding towards a tough place. You’ll easily be able to find someone who’s wanting and excited to work, soon. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by fattyflattie

[Guest]

Manage his performance, not his attendance.

If measurably impacting team results, it's sit-down time.

If not, get over it.

[bullzak 416]

We are in a bear market headed to a potential recession. No more stimmy checks. There are a lot of folks who are about to get a dose of reality. 

Its a teaching moment but it probably won't take so you will have to can him. You will find someone better. 

 

[Js1 85288]

4 hours ago, bullzak said:

We are in a bear market headed to a potential recession. No more stimmy checks. There are a lot of folks who are about to get a dose of reality. 

Its a teaching moment but it probably won't take so you will have to can him. You will find someone better. 

 

There hasn’t been a stimulus check in like 15 months.  

[dirtonia 269]

Blah blah blah, I’m old and only know how to work in an office, blah blah blah.

Just because this person sucks, it has nothing to do with being productive while WFH.

[bullzak 416]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

There hasn’t been a stimulus check in like 15 months.

Maybe. Point stands that there are a lot of people who think they are special/smart because our government injected trillions of dollars into the economy with almost no strings attached. Now inflation is going to take that back plus some. Nobody who wasn't working in 1982 even knows what that's like. I do and it fucking sucks if you're on the wrong side of it. 

It wont hurt capital all that much unless they are levered out the ass, but the labor market could be in for a rough time. I hope it doesn't happen but you get a real recession early 80s style and some people are going to get punched in the mouth. Been there. 

Just like I keep hearing there are these young Wall St hotshots who are ready for a bond bear market. Reading about it in some textbook aint the same as living through it. 

Anyway as to the subject at hand you should be looking for this guys replacement. He's a loser so give him two in the back of the head. Never feel a thing. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Are you his boss, boss’ boss or just butting into a co-worker’s attendance records? If not one of the first two, why are you tracking his absences. Stay busy doing your job.

[F250 28764]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:50 PM, SimonBolivar said:

If you want him to have a future or believe in him then lean on him. If you want to/think you'll eventually fire him then get HR involved so that you have the proper documentation lined up when the time comes and you don't get any blow back.

Este.

It's pretty simple. Advise or terminate. 

 

[Baboontyme 2809]

9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Are you his boss, boss’ boss or just butting into a co-worker’s attendance records? If not one of the first two, why are you tracking his absences. Stay busy doing your job.

Gotta be honest I wondered this as well. I'm sure SH has his reasons but I read it 3x looking for them and they weren't stated. And thus I've concluded that SH just wants to be the company narc. 

[CooterBrown 18004]

If he's clinging to the rules and not the spirit of the rules... I'm guessing they don't really see him working out long term as he's showing he wants to contribute on the lowest allowable level.

Understood but I think a legal POV would be based on the rule not the spirit of the rule. You may open yourself up to some liability if you define the rule one way but expect it to be followed differently than as written.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

1 hour ago, Baboontyme said:

Gotta be honest I wondered this as well. I'm sure SH has his reasons but I read it 3x looking for them and they weren't stated. And thus I've concluded that SH just wants to be the company narc. 

I would also caution about tracking other employees habits especially if it’s related to their health. Track another employee’s time due to their health problems could land the tracker in trouble with HR.

I knew a manager that placed a web cam in the cube farm to see when his employees showed up, took breaks etc. it wasn’t something like  like putting a camera in the bathroom just the normal office room. When HR found out about the cube cam, the mgr was in hot water.

[Superhero 8828]

12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Are you his boss, boss’ boss or just butting into a co-worker’s attendance records? If not one of the first two, why are you tracking his absences. Stay busy doing your job.

I’m his boss’s boss.

I let some people work from home. They are the ones who I know are actually working and getting shit done.

Gotta prove yourself first to get your manager’s trust and all that blah blah blah.

 This kid is < 1 year with the company and in construction. He has a lot to learn and can’t do that if he’s not here. 

[F250 28764]

12 hours ago, Superhero said:

I’m his boss’s boss.

I let some people work from home. They are the ones who I know are actually working and getting shit done.

Gotta prove yourself first to get your manager’s trust and all that blah blah blah.

 This kid is < 1 year with the company and in construction. He has a lot to learn and can’t do that if he’s not here. 

Then fucking drop the axe. All my direct reports and their direct reports work remote. If anyone that doesn’t perform gets the axe with extreme prejudice, I don’t fucking go on Surly asking for advice.

Shit man. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Hammerin Hank 1225]

Burn his house down. Can’t work from home if you don’t have one

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would also caution about tracking other employees habits especially if it’s related to their health. Track another employee’s time due to their health problems could land the tracker in trouble with HR.

I knew a manager that placed a web cam in the cube farm to see when his employees showed up, took breaks etc. it wasn’t something like  like putting a camera in the bathroom just the normal office room. When HR found out about the cube cam, the mgr was in hot water.

Manager's a dumbass.  "it was done in the interest of safety and security concerns."

[BillyBadAss 189]

In all the instances you cite, someone at work was sick or someone in his home was sick. Sounds like the guy doesn't want to get or spread germs. 

I'm all for people staying home when it's reasonable to do so to mitigate the risk of spreading shit - especially now. 

I got annoyed pre-covid when jackasses would go to the office with a cold. I don't want that shit - and spreading it around the office probably has a greater negative affect on productivity than WFH a couple of days does. 

If he's using "being sick" as an excuse to play hooky, that's one thing. If he's legitimately trying to be a responsible citizen during a pandemic, that's another. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Have him train his replacement and then can him. Maybe even make him think it is because he is getting promoted to be the new hire's boss, that way he does a proper job of training.

[Quagmire 2147]

Burn his house down. Can’t work from home if you don’t have one

Yes but fuck his wife first though

[Baboontyme 2809]

Having sex with his wife first is a given. Duh. 

[crash_davis 23101]

update needed @Superhero

did you fire him or is he finally dead from all his sicknesses?

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

39 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

update needed @Superhero

did you fire him or is he finally dead from all his sicknesses?

Monkey Pox claims another victim. 

[Superhero 8828]

3 hours ago, crash_davis said:

update needed @Superhero

did you fire him or is he finally dead from all his sicknesses?

Haven't fired him yet. But I'm meeting with HR tomorrow to explore our options.

He actually did pretty well on his last project, and actually asked if I noticed a difference... which I thought was weird.

But like I said, we are exploring options, and may find something that will make him quit.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Someone can run their dept and company as they want but I've come around on the effectiveness of working from home. I think many jobs or employees can be successful from home.

Without a doubt some employees can abuse this privilege, and there are even stories of people working multiple "full-time" jobs at home. But this new situation presents an opportunity for the employer. Require the manager to define an objective measurement of the employee.

Finally with everyone working from home, you can lose that team concept so a manager has that challenge to push or require employees work together if their role doesn't normally require it. Now if it's the idea that the employees all need to go to happy hour together like it's 1965, those days are over.

[crash_davis 23101]

1 minute ago, Superhero said:

Haven't fired him yet. But I'm meeting with HR tomorrow to explore our options.

He actually did pretty well on his last project, and actually asked if I noticed a difference... which I thought was weird.

But like I said, we are exploring options, and may find something that will make him quit.

might want to take this offline for when he sues. 

but sounds like the easiest way is to make him go to the office 8-5 everyday with an exact hour for lunch. no work from home. sick day burned or in the office. and limit the number of sick days to policy. 

or just micro manage the fuck out of him. repeatedly ask "when will you have it to me?" for every thing you give him and ask him to do.

way easier to fire for breaking HR policy than for poor work performance.

[PilotsError 2286]

Fuck any and all passive aggressive shit.  Either let him go for poor performance or don't and move on.  

[Hefeweizen 5310]

1 minute ago, PilotsError said:

Fuck any and all passive aggressive shit.  Either let him go for poor performance or don't and move on.  

This right here.  Just man up and cut him loose and tell him why.

[Sbbruin 21829]

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Superhero said:

Haven't fired him yet. But I'm meeting with HR tomorrow to explore our options.

He actually did pretty well on his last project, and actually asked if I noticed a difference... which I thought was weird.

But like I said, we are exploring options, and may find something that will make him quit.

“Hey Boss, I finished the  project.  Do you still hate me?”

[crash_davis 23101]

21 hours ago, PilotsError said:

Fuck any and all passive aggressive shit.  Either let him go for poor performance or don't and move on.  

if it were only that easy.

he's trying to fire for cause so shit for brains doesn't file for and get unemployment. he's also trying to cover his ass so the company doesn't get sued.