Sick / "Work from home"

[SimonBolivar 10958]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

he's trying to fire for cause so shit for brains doesn't file for and get unemployment. he's also trying to cover his ass so the company doesn't get sued. 

Bingo, document everything.

[Deej 76842]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:32 PM, Superhero said:

Haven't fired him yet. But I'm meeting with HR tomorrow to explore our options.

He actually did pretty well on his last project, and actually asked if I noticed a difference... which I thought was weird.

But like I said, we are exploring options, and may find something that will make him quit.

So he reads Surly. 

[crash_davis 23114]

i was mid 20s, promoted to my first manager job. i inherited a pos worker from a re-org. i wanted to fire the lazy bitch from day one. a few months of shitty performance, i went to HR and told them I want her gone. HR said, lulz, sorry, not that easy. you need to document everything. my reaction, the fuck. we are a fortune 20 company, we can fire who the fuck we please. HR said, yea, no.

it was a fucking beating documenting every got damned thing from tardiness, to emails, to missed assignment dates, to conversations. 5 months of shit and still didn't get the green light to pull the trigger. 

luckily or unluckily we had a layoff. i easily added her to the list. laid her off, but she got a severance package so that sucked. but yea, it takes fucking forever and a gazillion documentation entries to fire someone. layoffs are easy. you can add anyone to the list and no one can say shit. well unless you only lay off minorities, old people, women, etc.

Edited June 2, 2022 by crash_davis

[Celery Man 20970]

put him on a fucking pip

[Js1 85437]

21 hours ago, Celery Man said:

put him on a fucking pip

Yup. Either he’ll get mad and leave on his own or there’s your paperwork to fire him 

[Celery Man 20970]

I’ve been thinking about this because we’re starting to be back in the office more, and I have a kid in daycare. And I’m getting my ass kicked constantly from whatever viruses and bullshit she’s bringing home. This combined with the new emphasis on staying home when sick but also with the… if I’m sick on Monday I’m really hoping I’m in better shape by Wednesday because that is when every significant in person meeting is going to occur. And it’s damned if you do damned if you don’t being gunky - nobody wants you there but you miss a few times and you’re basically never there.

I don’t know what’s going on with superhero’s guy and I’m not trying to tie it directly, but we should all be having honest and open conversations with our teams as we go back in. Setting and holding ourselves to expectations and applying them fairly. If you don’t trust that your employee is sick when he says he is you have a trust problem with your employee. If that applies across your whole team you might have some problems you need to go off and deal with on your own. Teams work better when you understand people generously.

[ClubWhatever 12151]

On 6/1/2022 at 3:32 PM, Superhero said:

But I'm meeting with HR tomorrow

What is the HR you speak of?

[Samson's Wig 3193]

I've been running a completely remote company since 2009.   I've long been through all the shit everyone has been learning about over the last couple of years, and was able to find resolutions and workarounds for just about every drawback related to remote employees.  

The number one action for making it work is no surprise.  It's all about who you hire.  The skillset required to work from home and actually make a meaningful, or even just positive, contribution is not something that most people have.  However, almost every one thinks they are excellent at working from home.  Most of these people are delusional. No one likes having a direct report standing over their shoulder, so it's easy to think remote work would be amazing and you would get so much accomplished without the distraction of coworkers and especially a boss in your direct vicinity. Unfortunately, most people are not motivated in this way.  Some need the whip cracked, some need the camaraderie of coworkers, and some just need to get away from their family for a few hours each day.  It's a small minority of people who are good employees while working from home.  The distractions in a modern home are insane, and most can't avoid them.

Yes, Millennials and Gen Z are the most overconfident groups when it comes to thinking they'll be solid working remotely because they already live their social lives online.   But they're also the group from which I've found some my best remote employees.   The young man in the OP, based on the information we were provided, is a layabout and should be sent packing.  And any company considering a hybrid or straight WFH situation needs to think long and hard about which employees can handle it and which can't.  Most can't, and I think we'll get to a point where we look back and laugh about that time when people actually worked from home.  Owners and managers are already learning this shit doesn't work unless you build a company specifically for remote work.  Taking an existing set of employees in an existing company and trying to implement it is not going to work out in most cases.

TL/DR:  Everyone thinks that they're great at working from home.  The vast majority of them are wrong.

[gurt 749]

I've been running a completely remote company since 2009.   I've long been through all the shit everyone has been learning about over the last couple of years, and was able to find resolutions and workarounds for just about every drawback related to remote employees.  
The number one action for making it work is no surprise.  It's all about who you hire.  The skillset required to work from home and actually make a meaningful, or even just positive, contribution is not something that most people have.  However, almost every one thinks they are excellent at working from home.  Most of these people are delusional. No one likes having a direct report standing over their shoulder, so it's easy to think remote work would be amazing and you would get so much accomplished without the distraction of coworkers and especially a boss in your direct vicinity. Unfortunately, most people are not motivated in this way.  Some need the whip cracked, some need the camaraderie of coworkers, and some just need to get away from their family for a few hours each day.  It's a small minority of people who are good employees while working from home.  The distractions in a modern home are insane, and most can't avoid them.
Yes, Millennials and Gen Z are the most overconfident groups when it comes to thinking they'll be solid working remotely because they already live their social lives online.   But they're also the group from which I've found some my best remote employees.   The young man in the OP, based on the information we were provided, is a layabout and should be sent packing.  And any company considering a hybrid or straight WFH situation needs to think long and hard about which employees can handle it and which can't.  Most can't, and I think we'll get to a point where we look back and laugh about that time when people actually worked from home.  Owners and managers are already learning this shit doesn't work unless you build a company specifically for remote work.  Taking an existing set of employees in an existing company and trying to implement it is not going to work out in most cases.
TL/DR:  Everyone thinks that they're great at working from home.  The vast majority of them are wrong.

What kind of business are you running? I’ve had the opposite experience managing remote teams in tech. Granted I’m just a middle manager, but the people that sucked in office sucked at home and the people who did well in office did well at home. And I can crack the whip virtually just as easily at home as I can in office.

[UTPhil2006 3807]

Very good info from Samson.  I couldn't imagine going back into the office but it's been like 8 years of WFH.  I can also think of our 3 younger employees and I think all 3 definitely need to be in the office.

[Reagan1k 3024]

12 hours ago, gurt said:

Taking an existing set of employees in an existing company and trying to implement it is not going to work out in most cases.

I've been watching this play out at several manufacturers.  They have all their inside sales, engineers, and customer service reps in WFH roles and it is a disaster, but they haven't called everyone back in due to leadership who want to be progressive and reinforcing pushback from employees. 

They're relying on internal feedback to deem it a success based on satisfaction surveys among employees and metrics that are built to show a desired outcome.

What used to take minutes to get an answer via a phone call or email now takes many hours or even days to be resolved.

I can't wait for some of these leadership teams to get out and go face to face with their customers to find out just how shitty their WFH system is and how unproductive their employees are with regard to actually taking care of the customer.

[smuggs 9353]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:45 PM, Superhero said:

I'm starting to document his absences. Is this a valid issue to bring up with HR? Or should I just lean on him myself?

 

Transfer him to the Seattle team, he'll fit right in up there.

[StassneyHorn 6618]

You should bring it up to HR so they can hopefully tell you to fuck off.

[MissingInAction 25113]

This guy sounds like he has upper management written all over him.

So, Superhero, what would you say it is you actually do around there? Other than posting on depraved message boards.

[Sam Lin 3559]

Followup question, what would you say it is that the Seattle team actually does around there?

[Superhero 8830]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:11 AM, MissingInAction said:

This guy sounds like he has upper management written all over him.

So, Superhero, what would you say it is you actually do around there? Other than posting on depraved message boards.

Uhh... sometimes not a whole lot. Sometimes way too much. Now is one of those times when I should be getting shit done, but am spending time with you degenerates instead.

Re the kid. I met with HR to discuss an employee, and he knew exactly who I was talking about. We're documenting now, but surprisingly he's been showing up everyday and working well with one of my most demanding managers. I guess this case is on hold for now.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Resurrecting this thread.

I recently left a mid major oil company job where I worked remote 50% of the time and had every other Friday off for a chemical company where I work 5 days a week in the office. That was a mistake.

I was trying to get out from under a PM who everyone disliked. Well, she up and quits right after I do. But, since some friends had vouched for me at the new job, it was direct with a better compensation package, I didn’t wait for the counter. Again, my bad.

Anyways, this company and the people seem fine. They are trying to find their way with some new things they are doing, so processes and what not are still being worked through. Some projects allow their personnel to work from home 2 days a week. ALL of our meetings are virtual. In fact, the department head for the America’s (my boss who hired me) sits about 15 feet away and in my first week in the office I have seen her 4 times, and that was only the first couple of days. Either her door is shut, or when I get up from my desk she isn’t at hers. Most of my project team is in another state and the project will be built in a third state. There is ZERO reason for me to come in 5 days a week. 3 is probably overkill. But I approached the boss’s underling who is my go to for project related shit if I could work from home 2 days a week. He said we could talk about it and asked which days. I told him and am waiting for his response.

I shouldn’t have asked. I should have just started working from home 2 days a week until someone could tell me what the problem is. At my previous job I proved that I could perform beyond expectations on a hybrid schedule. Got to the point that the boss said he didn’t care if I came into the office or not.

tl;dr: I think I fucked up and it’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

[RPM 26325]

You'll get a kick outa this. My boss can work from home anytime he wants and have an employee work overtime to cover his place OTJ. But I get 0 sick days and have an elaborate network of trusses and sudoku puzzles to maneuver if I need to call off.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Well, this is hilarious. We just had a department meeting which was kicked off by a new HR initiative for wellness. One of the pillars is of course work/life balance. But the company schedule is five 8 hour days. Come on you fucks, do like the rest of the industry and at least work a 9/80. Work from home wasn’t brought up specifically, but as soon as the wellness bullshit was over, the department manager said that the expectation is for people to be in the office for collaboration. Of course, like I said, all my meetings are virtual and most of my team is in another state. Can’t make this dumb shit up. But hey, after the meeting we played Pictionary while we ate a shitty lunch!!!

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

3 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Well, this is hilarious. We just had a department meeting which was kicked off by a new HR initiative for wellness. One of the pillars is of course work/life balance. But the company schedule is five 8 hour days. Come on you fucks, do like the rest of the industry and at least work a 9/80. Work from home wasn’t brought up specifically, but as soon as the wellness bullshit was over, the department manager said that the expectation is for people to be in the office for collaboration. Of course, like I said, all my meetings are virtual and most of my team is in another state. Can’t make this dumb shit up. But hey, after the meeting we played Pictionary while we ate a shitty lunch!!!

every week submit travel requests for your team to fly in and 'collaborate' in the office.  then post on redit malicious compliance thread.

[DaysOff 7958]

You'll get a kick outa this. My boss can work from home anytime he wants and have an employee work overtime to cover his place OTJ. But I get 0 sick days and have an elaborate network of trusses and sudoku puzzles to maneuver if I need to call off.

Zero sick days? I realize this is American capitalism and all but that seems harsh. I need to call in sick 6 weeks a year to zero out my account before retirement. On sick call right now for the lolz.

[Baboontyme 2814]

8 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Well, this is hilarious. We just had a department meeting which was kicked off by a new HR initiative for wellness. One of the pillars is of course work/life balance. But the company schedule is five 8 hour days. Come on you fucks, do like the rest of the industry and at least work a 9/80. Work from home wasn’t brought up specifically, but as soon as the wellness bullshit was over, the department manager said that the expectation is for people to be in the office for collaboration. Of course, like I said, all my meetings are virtual and most of my team is in another state. Can’t make this dumb shit up. But hey, after the meeting we played Pictionary while we ate a shitty lunch!!!

I am not trying to kick you in the nuts but honestly it kind of sounds like the culture at the new place sucks and you might want to start thinking about whether that is worth it. Maybe too early to tell, but...