Better Call Saul- returns August 6th

[NorthLoop 14,253]

Yeah that's why it doesn't make sense

[Lurch 5,931]

I don't think Kim ever thought Jimmy was sincere about Chuck.  He has spent the last week trying to con everyone that he had strong feelings about Chuck.  Kim knew he was faking it.  He spent all day at the gravesite pretending to care.  She knew it was a con. 

I think you’re misinterpreting it. She knew the con was acknowledging Chuck; it was the very reason he didn’t get reinstated the first time. While she was orchestrating that she ALSO knows Jimmy is broken re: Chuck in general. Thus, the psychiatrist request. She was in on the con until Jimmy stopped reading the letter. In that moment she thought he had broken from the character and actually came to grips with his true feelings about Chuck, which is probably what she thought the psychiatrist would get to. To then realize afterwards that he didn’t make such a breakthrough after all and was actually giddy about what suckers they were for believing it only reinforced to her that Jimmy is still very broken.

[RD3 64]

8 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

We've all seen BB, you ain't spoiling anything. Spill it buddy 

Augustus explained it above. 

[RD3 64]

4 hours ago, Lurch said:

I think you’re misinterpreting it. She knew the con was acknowledging Chuck; it was the very reason he didn’t get reinstated the first time. While she was orchestrating that she ALSO knows Jimmy is broken re: Chuck in general. Thus, the psychiatrist request. She was in on the con until Jimmy stopped reading the letter. In that moment she thought he had broken from the character and actually came to grips with his true feelings about Chuck, which is probably what she thought the psychiatrist would get to. To then realize afterwards that he didn’t make such a breakthrough after all and was actually giddy about what suckers they were for believing it only reinforced to her that Jimmy is still very broken.

 

Yep. I think then and there she realized that Jimmy is a sociopath.

[RD3 64]

11 hours ago, RD3 said:

Holy sh*t. Lalo Salamanca is "Mexican Randy Quaid"!

Doh... Mexican Dennis Quaid.

[UTCzech III 2,907]

I think Lalo is dead in BB.  Maybe not when Saul is kidnapped by Walt and Jesse.  But sometime later, off-screen, and we never hear of it.  Because of Gus's final speech to Hector:

"Hello, Hector. All of them, Hector. Don Eladio. Don Paco. Cesar. Renaldo. Artuno. Cisco and Luis.Escalara. All dead. As is your grandson, Joaquin. Do you know who killed Joaquin? Would you like to see? This young man. Do you remember him? That young man shot Joaquin to death while I made my escape. I believe you have met him before. It was just you and Joaquin. He was the only family you had left. Now the Salamanca name dies with you. Will you look at me now? Look at me, Hector. Look at me."

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by UTCzech III
I know, not final speech, but near the end...

[NorthLoop 14,253]

That's a good find

[Baboontyme 2,825]

I just rewatched it. Honestly it was a pretty damn perfect finale. 

Kim was absolutely stunned and heartbroken when Jimmy revealed his off the cuff speech was a con. She thought he finally spoke from the heart about his brother. She 100% believed he was sincere and that he was moving away from their previously thought up script,  which was less than sincere. Watch it again, her facial expressions during the riff and afterwards when he reveals to her it was a sell job. 

I really do enjoy the Jimmy transformation I would say more than a lot of folks it seems (given the folks I've read here and elsewhere and talked to irl who have bitched about the pace of this season), but the Mike storyline is absolutely taking the lead for me. I was gripping watching it last night. Had that same kind of pit in your stomach feel that BB brought. 

One nit to pick - so Kip at Western Union takes a phone call and in the 10 seconds he's giving directions to the store, Lalo or whatever his name is, is able to silently get into the ceiling tiles unnoticed? Huh? Also do we think he killed Kip or just knocked him out? Probably the latter. 

 

[DDD Dad 14,352]

Kips’s dead.

[NorthLoop 14,253]

and Lalo is a fucking ninja apparently

[tx 3 putt 77,544]

maybe he just wanted some wings ?

[huge 3,795]

All nimbly pimbly that Lalo

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

17 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't think Kim ever thought Jimmy was sincere about Chuck.  He has spent the last week trying to con everyone that he had strong feelings about Chuck.  Kim knew he was faking it.  He spent all day at the gravesite pretending to care.  She knew it was a con. 

 

17 hours ago, Apep said:

And yet she was also crying in the courtroom and seemed hurt by Jimmy calling the crying judge an asshole.

16 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

I think you’re misinterpreting it. She knew the con was acknowledging Chuck; it was the very reason he didn’t get reinstated the first time. While she was orchestrating that she ALSO knows Jimmy is broken re: Chuck in general. Thus, the psychiatrist request. She was in on the con until Jimmy stopped reading the letter. In that moment she thought he had broken from the character and actually came to grips with his true feelings about Chuck, which is probably what she thought the psychiatrist would get to. To then realize afterwards that he didn’t make such a breakthrough after all and was actually giddy about what suckers they were for believing it only reinforced to her that Jimmy is still very broken.

 

 

Agree 100% with Lurch. While Kim was part of the con (and plenty of others as well) she deep down had hoped that Jimmy felt bad about what happened to his brother. That was pretty clear with her crying in the courtroom and the reaction she had to him wanting to change his name via the DBA reaction especially how he had spent the entire season (if not 2 seasons) talking about sharing an office and becoming Wexler/McGill law firm and then does a total 180 on everything they had talked about without ever telling Kim of his change of plans. It was the realization that she was conned as well. While possibly not on purpose Kim I'm guessing won't see it that way and could be a contributing factor on their assumed breakup/falling out down the road.

 

[Ten Bears 2,483]

22 hours ago, RPM said:

Nobody has made New Mexico look more beautiful than Vince and Co.

New Mexico.  Where it's inhabitants wear long sleeve shirts and jackets year round.

Breaking Bad did the same thing.  It bugs me.

[Guest Lobo]

It is chillier in New Mexico than most people realize.  But yeah, every bad guy wore a jacket in BB/BCS at all times.  It got weird after awhile.  

Then again, you can't go anywhere in Austin in September without seeing people in fleece vests.  

[kevwun 15,932]

People in London wear winter clothes just about year round also.

[Baboontyme 2,825]

38 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

 

Agree 100% with Lurch. While Kim was part of the con (and plenty of others as well) she deep down had hoped that Jimmy felt bad about what happened to his brother. That was pretty clear with her crying in the courtroom and the reaction she had to him wanting to change his name via the DBA reaction especially how he had spent the entire season (if not 2 seasons) talking about sharing an office and becoming Wexler/McGill law firm and then does a total 180 on everything they had talked about without ever telling Kim of his change of plans. 

This was so great.

But I've been a fool. Playing by the rules. The winner takes it all.

[Baboontyme 2,825]

Right on cue, just saw a tweet and started to read this:

https://www.amc.com/shows/better-call-saul/talk/2018/10/better-call-saul-qa-peter-gould-and-tom-schnauz-executive-producers?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=qa-why-saul-goodman-isnt-the-end-of-james-mcgill&utm_campaign=better-call-saul

[Horny Bull 2,766]

13 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

One nit to pick - so Kip at Western Union takes a phone call and in the 10 seconds he's giving directions to the store, Lalo or whatever his name is, is able to silently get into the ceiling tiles unnoticed? Huh? Also do we think he killed Kip or just knocked him out? Probably the latter.

 

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

1 hour ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

Wexler/McGill law firm and then does a total 180 on everything

Let's not forget that Kim walked away from the Wexler/McGill thing.  Jimmy don't forget.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,528]

My interpretation is definitely wrong when the producers say so.  I just don't get the idea that Kim thought Jimmy was being sincere at the bar hearing.  He's been running a con for at least week and now finds religion?  I realize that is the story but I just find it weak.   She's not a fool but they're writing her as one now?   

I also don't buy that Jimmy walks outside the hearing room and then starts to laugh and call them names.   What if one of them walks outside to use the bathroom and overhears him laughing at them.   A con artist isn't going to blow his cover at the last minute.  However I understand the writers had to quickly get him to learn that he was getting his license back and mention he was changing his name.    

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

16 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Let's not forget that Kim walked away from the Wexler/McGill thing.  Jimmy don't forget.

 

Yep. But I don't think she was ever 100% in on the partnership. Sure she was fine with sharing offices but even she knew what attaching her name and practice to Jimmy wasn't the best idea for her. She works her ass off and wanted to play it straight, but she also liked the little short cuts/cons that jimmy brought to the table not to mention she loves the thrill that "dangerous" Jimmy brings. However she has a line. It's pretty clear that her line isn't anywhere close to Jimmy's. 

 

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

My interpretation is definitely wrong when the producers say so.  I just don't get the idea that Kim thought Jimmy was being sincere at the bar hearing.  He's been running a con for at least week and now finds religion?  I realize that is the story but I just find it weak.   She's not a fool but they're writing her as one now?   

I also don't buy that Jimmy walks outside the hearing room and then starts to laugh and call them names.   What if one of them walks outside to use the bathroom and overhears him laughing at them.   A con artist isn't going to blow his cover at the last minute.  However I understand the writers had to quickly get him to learn that he was getting his license back and mention he was changing his name.    

 

I didn't take it that way, as I said above she LOVES Jimmy in part because he isn't straight as an arrow and has a little bit of edge to him. She loves the con just as much as Jimmy but she has always walked the line when Jimmy was ready to take things up to 11 just for the fuck of it. There were plenty of times over the last several seasons where she had to stop Jimmy from taking things a step to far. Since Chuck's death she has always been waiting for Jimmy to show his real emotions about his brother. She knows that he loved him and looked up to him. As he mentioned in the hearing he was never going to live up to his expectations but he still loved him because they were brothers. 

What happened after the courtroom showed to Kim (I assume) that Jimmy was never going to go there and that just maybe he really is as big of me first prick that he has always been. In saying that we still love him as a bad guy and root for him just as we did for Walter in BB by overlooking all of the awful things he did. It's an amazing talent that Vince has to make viewers root for really shitty people. 

[Baboontyme 2,825]

Just musing but the more I think about it the more I loved the karaoke scene. Obviously the song and its message were on point (if not a bit cliched) but how great was the way it played out as it speaks to the characters and their relationship? Jimmy is out celebrating, and Chuck is too good for the scene and trying to slip out the back door. Jimmy catches him and convinces him to stay for one final song, to which Chuck reluctantly agrees. He wants no part of the karaoke, and Jimmy ropes him in. Obviously Chuck is belting out bars in his beautiful singing voice, before ripping the mic completely from Jimmy and just taking over. Good little brother James McGill doesn't even seem to care. But what an arrogant douchecanoe move by Chuck, true to form. 

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

7 hours ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

It's an amazing talent that Vince has to make viewers root for really shitty people. 

This can't be said enough.

[henrygandorf 29,197]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I also don't buy that Jimmy walks outside the hearing room and then starts to laugh and call them names.   What if one of them walks outside to use the bathroom and overhears him laughing at them.   A con artist isn't going to blow his cover at the last minute.  However I understand the writers had to quickly get him to learn that he was getting his license back and mention he was changing his name.    

yeah, this part bugged me.  especially since he's already been turned down once.  the stakes are too high for him just to lose it that loudly and obnoxiously.  if they needed to have that scene, they could've found an empty conference room near by.  it also seemed like at that point, he thought pretty sure he was getting good news, but it's not like he got some form stamped and there was no take-backs or something.

also re: that amc interview with producers.  paraphrasing but, "yeah, when we started, we thought he'd be saul goodman by the end of season 1, but now we know we did it the right way."  funny how 4 years of cashing checks from a network will change your opinion on a selected narrative.

[bernorange 8,367]

23 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Also do we think he killed Kip or just knocked him out? Probably the latter. 

You can see Kip's blood splattered on Lalo's face when he's talking on the phone.

[Baboontyme 2,825]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

yeah, this part bugged me.  especially since he's already been turned down once.  the stakes are too high for him just to lose it that loudly and obnoxiously.  if they needed to have that scene, they could've found an empty conference room near by.  it also seemed like at that point, he thought pretty sure he was getting good news, but it's not like he got some form stamped and there was no take-backs or something.

Agree with you guys here. That would be my gripe #2 with the episode (#1 being ceiling ninja Lalo). Both times I watched my brain immediately jumped scene and assumed they were somewhere else in a flash forward. 

[Augustus 3,061]

13 hours ago, Ten Bears said:

New Mexico.  Where it's inhabitants wear long sleeve shirts and jackets year round.

Breaking Bad did the same thing.  It bugs me.

Albuquerque actually sits at a higher elevation than Denver.  It's quite cool/cold there most of the year.

In June, July and August the average highs are only 92-93. In the hottest part of the summer, the lows are still in the 60's.

I wish I lived there instead of Scottsdale.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Augustus

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

10 hours ago, Augustus said:

Albuquerque actually sits at a higher elevation than Denver.  It's quite cool/cold there most of the year.

In June, July and August the average highs are only 92-93. In the hottest part of the summer, the lows are still in the 60's.

I wish I lived there instead of Scottsdale.

This.

I used to go there for work every once in a while. Any time other maybe July or August it was always a little brisk and definitely always cold at night.

[Mileslong 4,728]

Albuquerque actually sits at a higher elevation than Denver.  It's quite cool/cold there most of the year.
In June, July and August the average highs are only 92-93. In the hottest part of the summer, the lows are still in the 60's.
I wish I lived there instead of Scottsdale.

I would rather live in Sedona than Albuquerque

[Augustus 3,061]

3 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

I would rather live in Sedona than Albuquerque

We go up and stay at Junipine resort in the Oak Creek Canyon quite a bit, and it's a beautiful place, but still doesn't have the kind of weather I prefer.  A little farther north in Flagstaff is much more to my liking.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,528]

15 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Agree with you guys here. That would be my gripe #2 with the episode (#1 being ceiling ninja Lalo). Both times I watched my brain immediately jumped scene and assumed they were somewhere else in a flash forward. 

Ceiling ninja made for a crazy scene but I would think/hope that financial institutions, with security windows, wouldn't allow someone to obtain access to the secure area via the area above the ceiling tiles.  Nothing is ever impossible and companies can be cheap with security but I would still think there would be some barrier in the ceiling to slow down a criminal.  But I could be wrong and perhaps the security window is for show only.

[Kel Varnsen 8,542]

I want to hire the contractor that installed that drop ceiling if it can support the weight of someone walking on it.

[77horn 216]

Read an explanation somewhere that Lalo didn't use the drop ceiling itself for support, but rather duct work and piping in the space.

 

As to Kim's reaction, I think she was shock at the angry emotion of Jimmy/Saul.  The depth of emotion that caused him to say those things right outside the room.  It surprised her, just as it surprised us.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

26 minutes ago, 77horn said:

Read an explanation somewhere that Lalo didn't use the drop ceiling itself for support, but rather duct work and piping in the space.

 

As to Kim's reaction, I think she was shock at the angry emotion of Jimmy/Saul.  The depth of emotion that caused him to say those things right outside the room.  It surprised her, just as it surprised us.

How would he get into a duct from a drop ceiling square?  He'd need to enter through a vent. 

[77horn 216]

Not into the duct, but hanging on the duct with arms and legs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Lurch 5,931]

[Guest Lobo]

So Lalo is spanish for "John McLaine" and the ABQ underbanked strip center is the architectual equivalent of Nakatomi Plaza?  

[77horn 216]

16 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

How would he get into a duct from a drop ceiling square?  He'd need to enter through a vent. 

not through the duct, but but using the using the duct as a support, like a sloth on a limb.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

On 10/12/2018 at 1:56 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I want to hire the contractor that installed that drop ceiling if it can support the weight of someone walking on it.

[Kel Varnsen 8,542]

I'll raise you.

imgur

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/better-call-saul-peter-gould-season-4-interview-732729/

 

It seems to me that the writers themselves don't fully know Lalo and Ignacio's future quite yet.

Ninja Lalo is bothersome, but to me both Breaking Bad and BCS were about character evolution more than "realism."  There's a decent amount of fantastical happenings in both series that one has to just accept to enjoy the shows.

I also now see that my original complaints about the building and "project delays" of the lab were maybe unfounded.  It wasn't about the lab.  It was about Mike's development into a hired killer.

The final line of the show was just  great.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by MC Fresh Breath

[Kyle 207]

Apologies in advance ... can someone refresh me as to how Saul got in trouble and needed to flee? Was it from the feds or more from the cartel? I guess I had assumed he kept enough arms length away to at least have plausible deniability toward both, but is the thought that Walt's war with Fring brought such a S-show that everyone needed clearing out given the attention it brought? Thanks in advance ...

[Augustus 3,061]

49 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Apologies in advance ... can someone refresh me as to how Saul got in trouble and needed to flee? Was it from the feds or more from the cartel? I guess I had assumed he kept enough arms length away to at least have plausible deniability toward both, but is the thought that Walt's war with Fring brought such a S-show that everyone needed clearing out given the attention it brought? Thanks in advance ...

I don't know what he'd have to fear from anyone in the meth trade.

But the DEA has Skylar, and Saul probably doesn't know what all the DEA learned from Pinkman--he could easily be unaware that Jesse's confession died with Hank.

But he'd have plenty of reason to believe that his money laundering efforts for Walt would be known by the authorities now.

[henrygandorf 29,197]

i still maintain that his behavior 100% in the flash-forwards tells me he's scared of non law-enforcement.  but in my opinion, the only real threat would be from irs/dea/fbi - and even then, i would think it's pretty minimal.

of course, the timing is a little fuzzy because of the year walt spent in new hampshire, and the ambiguity on how far the omaha timeline is set.

you're certainly not alone in asking that question.

[Kyle 207]

Thanks. Glad I'm not completely crazy - just seemed like / I assumed he kept an appropriate distance so he stayed clear. He seemed at the end of BB and BCS to be very scared that some serious trouble was coming his way.

[Butch Had Not 2,994]

On 10/12/2018 at 8:21 AM, Augustus said:

We go up and stay at Junipine resort in the Oak Creek Canyon quite a bit, and it's a beautiful place, but still doesn't have the kind of weather I prefer.  A little farther north in Flagstaff is much more to my liking.

Every may we go to junipine for our anniversary. And yes the quick 20 minute (if that) drive to Flagstaff and breweries is more enjoyable then the interesting city life in sedona. Though Elote cafe, Dahl and deluca, and the Hudson are worth it. 

[mr. sunshine 2,833]

From the RS write up that MC Fresh Breath linked...

Quote

We already know that we’ve seen a lot of Gene in Omaha. We’re thinking maybe there’s another chapter to this story that happens, post-Breaking Bad. Possibly.

Please oh please

[NorthLoop 14,253]

They wouldn't be showing those scenes if they weren't planning on having some extended time in it. At worst we'll get an episode of Omaha epilogue, at best we'll get an entire season. 

[Red Five 40,898]

I just realized that we didn’t see Gene in the season finale. IIRC the last we got from Gene was him having a panic attack?