Southern Baptist leaders covered up clergy sexual abuse

[bolverk 29728]

 

[F250 28826]

Baptist Rape Apologists. It's what they do.

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52615]

Not that shocked

[Leeroy Jenkins 2415]

Such great Christians. 

[pacman 7371]

I believe this qualifies for one of those "water is wet" sarcastic posts.

[mchookem 16404]

"20 years? amateurs." - catholic church

[tbone_ 14181]

Came here to post the same thing.

Not the least bit fucking surprised.

[Pato del Muerto 52615]

Protecting the brand is more important than any one person, or any large group of people. For any religion. 

[F250 28826]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

When reports of sexual abuse were sent to the SBC they pulled the old "we are not a centralized denomination" canard.

But if a woman preached in a Baptist church an alarm would go off.

Southern Baptists are the worst.

 

Quote

The SBC’s governing documents allowed for the removal of churches that ordained women or “endorse” homosexuality, but leaders said they had no such oversight when it came to churches led by convicted sex offenders. “Behind the curtain, the lawyers were advising to say nothing and do nothing, even when the callers were identifying predators still in SBC pulpits,” Guidepost found.

 

[atomheartbevo 89816]

I'm not shocked.  My wife's former (Southern Baptist) church, the leadership seemed like they preferred to be known more as Southern Baptists of Texas Convention than SBC, almost like they were distancing themselves from the SBC.  We've also seen a lot of leadership/management bail over the past 2-3 years for non-Baptist churches (or non-SBC affiliated churches), but that maybe COVID-related (mask/no mask, etc.) and it could be the church's finances were shaky or just more money elsewhere, but the turnover was extremely high.  

I'm not saying the molestation thing is the reason for any of those (as I said, could be COVID/money-related), but her pastor had made some cryptic remarks here and there over the past few years that made me think he might not want his church associated with the SBC, and he had talked about how some churches/pastors/etc. had strayed from the path, so to speak.

There was also the Beth Moore (droolemoji.gif) fiasco.  I think her reasons were more political, but there were a few folks who speculated that she had seen or heard some things, or had some men come on to her, and she was done with that shit.

[tx 3 putt 77520]

2 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Such great Christians. 

 

they were simply trying to rape the devil out of them !

[F250 28826]

24 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There was also the Beth Moore (droolemoji.gif) fiasco.  I think her reasons were more political, but there were a few folks who speculated that she had seen or heard some things, or had some men come on to her, and she was done with that shit.

How was it political? She started off by shining light on the sexual abuse and then spoke out against Christians supporting immoral politicians. The reaction to her were political but she was speaking within the confines of Christianity.

 

[jkates 316]

People in power often work to keep that power and lose site of the mission. Shame to see it happen like this in the SBC. Root it out, fellas. 

[jkates 316]

8 hours ago, F250 said:

How was it political? She started off by shining light on the sexual abuse and then spoke out against Christians supporting immoral politicians. The reaction to her were political but she was speaking within the confines of Christianity.

 

That's not what Beth Moore started off with, my man. She's her own piece of work and will jump in this every time it's in the news, but she wasn't leading the charge on it. 

[bluto 4943]

9 minutes ago, jkates said:

People in power often work to keep that power and lose site of the mission. Shame to see it happen like this in the SBC. Root it out, fellas. 

This went on for decades. It’s not as if a few bad apples in power ruined it, shit is rotten through and through. 

[jkates 316]

8 minutes ago, bluto said:

This went on for decades. It’s not as if a few bad apples in power ruined it, shit is rotten through and through. 

It's horrible. 

[midtown 3348]

This is why I make sure my kids know about the hypocrisy and out right crime in organized religion to counter their mom pushing religion on them

[Nivek 16992]

good thing we can't tax them!  

[F250 28826]

1 hour ago, jkates said:

That's not what Beth Moore started off with, my man. She's her own piece of work and will jump in this every time it's in the news, but she wasn't leading the charge on it. 

[F250 28826]

1 hour ago, jkates said:

That's not what Beth Moore started off with, my man. She's her own piece of work and will jump in this every time it's in the news, but she wasn't leading the charge on it. 

The sexual abuse issue preceeded her criticism of evangelicals supporting immoral politicians. People reacted harshly to her criticism of a certain American President for reasons. Prior to that she caught a lot of flack for not knowing her place as a woman. Her whole controversy was being in conflict with the misogyny of the SBC.

 

['stache 21889]

Strike number eleventy billion for organized religion. Can't eradicate them, but at least fucking tax them already. They've proven time and time again that their major characteristics are inconsistent with the "do gooder" basis for the tax exemption. They are businesses and somehow more corrupt than ordinary corrupt businesses.

[hookemATL 11916]

“Hey guys maybe…uh….like…don’t rape?”

- Jesus Henry Christ

[Ghost of LL 15544]

51 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Strike number eleventy billion for organized religion. Can't eradicate them, but at least fucking tax them already. They've proven time and time again that their major characteristics are inconsistent with the "do gooder" basis for the tax exemption. They are businesses and somehow more corrupt than ordinary corrupt businesses.

Yeah, well, it's not just organized religion.  It's organized everything.  The Boy Scouts of America, USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, Penn State.  And probably a thousand other organizations.  The reality is that any organization that puts children in the care of adults is going to attract predators.  And for whatever reason, it appears to be really hard to screen all of them out.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah, well, it's not just organized religion.  It's organized everything.  The Boy Scouts of America, USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, Penn State.  And probably a thousand other organizations.  The reality is that any organization that puts children in the care of adults is going to attract predators.  And for whatever reason, it appears to be really hard to screen all of them out.

Screening is one part.  Having proper training and internal controls is another.  Having proper reporting to authorities is another.

This is sickening no matter where it happens.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

Props to the wider organization that ordered the exec committee to give their outside group full access including attorney comms. I believe the exec committee fought it. 

[South Austin 52628]

My own exposure to the Southern Baptist church was attending the occasional Sunday service at my former in-law's church in Tenaha, where they had just awful singing talent, and every once in a while they'd have a "special performance" from someone in her teens or twenties who thought she was on American Idol, but really just sang off key to piped in music with lyrics projected onto a screen like a bad karaoke night.

That, and the occasional sermon when the preacher would remind us all that gays are going to hell.

Fuck that church.  Thus says the Lord.

[Samson's Wig 3194]

This is just the latest investigation on this issue with the SBC.  It's been an open secret for a long time, including numerous lawsuits filed by victims.

I grew up in the Baptist Church, during an era when this shit was apparently at its worst. Dodged a bullet I guess. I bailed on those nutbags a long time ago for other reasons.  Fuck those fuckers.

And yes, every time this issue comes up Baptists will chime in with the "decentralized organization" line. "My church would never do that."  Bull shit.   I understand how clinging to that notion can make one feel better about being part of something that is inherently evil, especially when it is something so intrinsically tied to one's sense of self and one's existence as religion.  But the so called "innocent" members of the flock who claim to have nothing to do with this stuff are exactly who enables the leadership to get away with it.  Whether it is Catholics, Baptists, Baylor jags, Penn Staters, Boy Scouts, everyone throws up their hands and says "wasn't me!", but I don't see many of them bailing on their organizations or demanding change.  Fuck every last one of them for enabling this shit to go on and on for decades.   Hiding in a turtle shell and acting like you have no culpability because you had nothing to do with it, all while filling up the collection plate or donating to alumni organizations, is just one cunt hair less disgusting than the people who cover this shit up for the organization. Watching the sheep try and distance themselves from the flock now that it all is coming out is grotesque. You all know what you were a part of.  

 

[F250 28826]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

My own exposure to the Southern Baptist church was attending the occasional Sunday service at my former in-law's church in Tenaha, where they had just awful singing talent, and every once in a while they'd have a "special performance" from someone in her teens or twenties who thought she was on American Idol, but really just sang off key to piped in music with lyrics projected onto a screen like a bad karaoke night.

That, and the occasional sermon when the preacher would remind us all that gays are going to hell.

Fuck that church.  Thus says the Lord.

Damn, you definitely nailed the description of the inexplicable amount of bad singing. I remember hearing a preacher say that people should give God there talent and bad singing wasn't giving God their talent. He followed up with a "I'm serious, there are too many talentless people singing in church. Cut it out." lulz His seriousness made it even more funny.

 

[South Austin 52628]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

Damn, you definitely nailed the description of the inexplicable amount of bad singing. I remember hearing a preacher say that people should give God there talent and bad singing wasn't giving God their talent. He followed up with a "I'm serious, there are too many talentless people singing in church. Cut it out." lulz His seriousness made it even more funny.

On the subject of bad singing, a few summers ago my Episcopal church had to shut down the Sanctuary for a couple weeks because we were getting our HVAC system completely replaced.  It was July, so obviously we couldn't host worship services.  We had developed a bit of a partnership with the Church of Christ congregation across the street.  Regardless of some pretty significant theological differences, our clergy and their clergy got along great and collaborated on the occasional joint programming.  So they invited us to joint worship services at their church for the two weeks when our Sanctuary was shut down.  I knew that the Church of Christ does not allow musical instruments and all of its singing is a cappella, and I know it's not a liturgical church like the Episcopal Church, and it's worship service revolves around song, prayer, and sermon without a structured liturgy.  So without knowing much more, I thought it was going to be a lot like the Baptist Church, and I thought I was in for more mediocre to bad singing.

I couldn't have been more wrong.  Those mofos can sing.  I guess its the difference between having singing talent in place like Austin and other urban areas, as opposed to searching the dregs in rural BFE Texas to find enough people to fill out a choir.  And, the congregants there couldn't have been more friendly and welcoming.  Their theology and way of worship is still not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed their musical programming.

Sorry for the tangent. 

[F250 28826]

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

On the subject of bad singing, a few summers ago my Episcopal church had to shut down the Sanctuary for a couple weeks because we were getting our HVAC system completely replaced.  It was July, so obviously we couldn't host worship services.  We had developed a bit of a partnership with the Church of Christ congregation across the street.  Regardless of some pretty significant theological differences, our clergy and their clergy got along great and collaborated on the occasional joint programming.  So they invited us to joint worship services at their church for the two weeks when our Sanctuary was shut down.  I knew that the Church of Christ does not allow musical instruments and all of its singing is a cappella, and I know it's not a liturgical church like the Episcopal Church, and it's worship service revolves around song, prayer, and sermon without a structured liturgy.  So without knowing much more, I thought it was going to be a lot like the Baptist Church, and I thought I was in for more mediocre to bad singing.

I couldn't have been more wrong.  Those mofos can sing.  I guess its the difference between having singing talent in place like Austin and other urban areas, as opposed to searching the dregs in rural BFE Texas to find enough people to fill out a choir.  And, the congregants there couldn't have been more friendly and welcoming.  Their theology and way of worship is still not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed their musical programming.

Sorry for the tangent. 

I've experienced it too. They take their singing seriously. They are an odd bunch. They have a beef with Baptists but it's an odd one sided beef. Kind of like TTU having a rivalry with aggy.

[Not a cat 5713]

14 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Protecting the brand is more important than any one person, or any large group of people. For any religion. 

 I'm glad you limited it to religions and not all large organizations.  That would be going too far ...

[Brisketexan 105429]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

My own exposure to the Southern Baptist church was attending the occasional Sunday service at my former in-law's church in Tenaha, where they had just awful singing talent, and every once in a while they'd have a "special performance" from someone in her teens or twenties who thought she was on American Idol, but really just sang off key to piped in music with lyrics projected onto a screen like a bad karaoke night.

That, and the occasional sermon when the preacher would remind us all that gays are going to hell.

Fuck that church.  Thus says the Lord.

You left out the part where church leadership molested you.  I don't know why you did that.

[South Austin 52628]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You left out the part where church leadership molested you.  I don't know why you did that.

Have I told you about the singing?

[Frank Drebin 5654]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

On the subject of bad singing, a few summers ago my Episcopal church had to shut down the Sanctuary for a couple weeks because we were getting our HVAC system completely replaced.  It was July, so obviously we couldn't host worship services.  We had developed a bit of a partnership with the Church of Christ congregation across the street.  Regardless of some pretty significant theological differences, our clergy and their clergy got along great and collaborated on the occasional joint programming.  So they invited us to joint worship services at their church for the two weeks when our Sanctuary was shut down.  I knew that the Church of Christ does not allow musical instruments and all of its singing is a cappella, and I know it's not a liturgical church like the Episcopal Church, and it's worship service revolves around song, prayer, and sermon without a structured liturgy.  So without knowing much more, I thought it was going to be a lot like the Baptist Church, and I thought I was in for more mediocre to bad singing.

I couldn't have been more wrong.  Those mofos can sing.  I guess its the difference between having singing talent in place like Austin and other urban areas, as opposed to searching the dregs in rural BFE Texas to find enough people to fill out a choir.  And, the congregants there couldn't have been more friendly and welcoming.  Their theology and way of worship is still not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed their musical programming.

Sorry for the tangent. 

You’re right about C of C having the best singers.  It’s a big deal to them.  I personally love acapella worship.  I grew up C of C and miss it.  

[Satchel 6949]

And to think Baptists have had the temerity to look down their noses at the villainy store of  Catholic clergy:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/may/southern-baptist-abuse-investigation-sbc-ec-legal-survivors.html
 

Christa Brown, a longtime advocate who experienced sexual abuse by her pastor at 16, said her “countless encounters with Baptist leaders” who shunned and disbelieved her “left a legacy of hate” and communicated “you are a creature void of any value—you don’t matter.” As a result, she said, instead of her faith providing solace, her faith has become “neurologically networked with a nightmare.” She referred to it as “soul murder.”
 

Another victim, Debbie Vasquez, was repeatedly sexually assaulted by an SBC pastor starting at the age of 14. When one assault led to her pregnancy, she was forced to apologize in front of the church but forbidden to mention the father. The pastor went on to serve at another Southern Baptist church, and when Vasquez reached out to the EC, her entreaties were ignored and evaded for years until a Houston Chronicle investigation three years ago

[wildcat09 29420]

Baptists right now, probably: “our victims were mostly girls at least!”

[Macanudo 13015]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Baptists right now, probably: “our victims were mostly girls at least!”

Allegedly.  

[atomheartbevo 89816]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Props to the wider organization that ordered the exec committee to give their outside group full access including attorney comms. I believe the exec committee fought it. 

I'm guessing a lot of folks/churches in the wider organization were not doing it because its as the right thing to do, but because they were trying to minimize their exposure in terms of any lawsuits.

[atomheartbevo 89816]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah, well, it's not just organized religion.  It's organized everything.  The Boy Scouts of America, USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, Penn State.  And probably a thousand other organizations.  The reality is that any organization that puts children in the care of adults is going to attract predators.  And for whatever reason, it appears to be really hard to screen all of them out.

You can't screen out somebody who hasn't been caught yet, but I think you can minimize the risk.  Basically, you make sure the predators don't have a chance to access the kids by themselves. It's expensive, requires background checks, time consuming (in that more parents have to be involved, or rather have to be involved more), and requires buy-in from the other adults/parents.  You also need good training for the youth that's repeated every year.

Background checks and requiring multiple adults (parents, etc.) be present for activities is a very solid start.  When you dig into the past cases regardless of organization, the abuse was almost always occurring in a situation where there was only one adult available because other adults/parents just didn't want to put the time in and maybe even saw it as free babysitting.  

When the bulk of the abuse was occurring in the 80s and 90s and earlier, child abuse was not something discussed (as a widespread problem), nor were children being taught what to do, what was inappropriate, and who to talk to.  It was confined to the occasional predator that was caught, but it always sounded like it was just that person and a few victims.

As a kid in the 70s and 80s, nobody ever went through abuse training with us kids whether it was 4H, FFA, scouts (Brownies/Girl Scouts in the case of my sister), church camp, after-school sports/activities, YMCA, etc. about what was allowed/what wasn't allowed, and who we would contact, etc., and there were plenty of situations where we were around just one adult (again, parents saw it as cheap/free babysitting), and even one-on-one situations.  

These days a lot of larger organizations (Boy Scouts USA/BSA, Girl Scouts, etc.) require background checks, require parents to go through training with their kids, and they are strict on making sure there's always multiple adults around, and in the case of younger kids, one parent/guardian must be along.  That cuts the chances for predators to do their thing way down, but it also means the more determined predators are going to migrate to smaller organizations that don't have such training, background checks, parental involvement, etc.. That means they are going to target after-school activities, smaller churches, etc.  You can't tell me that all of these small little companies operating out of strip-malls, that offer after-school activities like karate, basketball, etc., are doing full-background checks for employees, and solid training for the parents/kids, etc.

In the case of churches though, yeah, there's going to be plenty that still provide opportunities for predators, especially when those predators are pastors - how many one-on-one situations do pastors find themselves in?  A helluva lot.  And it takes a lot of guts to come forward about a supposed man-of-God abusing his position, because you know many in the congregation are going to denounce you.

[RDCanecutter 26475]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

 every once in a while they'd have a "special performance" from someone in her teens or twenties who thought she was on American Idol, but really just sang off key to piped in music with lyrics projected onto a screen like a bad karaoke night.

When I wind up in any church with a projector, I read it as a sign that I am standing at the Gates of Hell.

[The Ace of Aces 5194]

Tax it. And put them all in prison. 

[Hate 20146]

7 hours ago, South Austin said:

I couldn't have been more wrong.  Those mofos can sing.  I guess its the difference between having singing talent in place like Austin and other urban areas, as opposed to searching the dregs in rural BFE Texas to find enough people to fill out a choir.  And, the congregants there couldn't have been more friendly and welcoming.  Their theology and way of worship is still not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed their musical programming.

Sorry for the tangent. 

I grew up in The Church of Christ and I can tell you that every single one of them has great singing and it doesn't matter whether they are in the city or country.  It's because there are no instruments drowning out the sound.  I think it makes it easier for others around them to stay in key....I guess.  I went to ACU for a year and at the end of their big annual campus event (Sing Song) the whole crowd stands and sings "The Lord Bless you and Keep You".  It's beautiful. 

[Chewbacca 7787]

Baptist Rape Apologists. It's what they do.
 

 

Rape, murder, whatever.

[Hermanator 7178]

If there is a creator diety over us the evidence is overwhelming that it either doesn't pay any attention to us at all or actively wants to watch us suffer. There's no way to look at the evidence from a purely scientific view and conclude it loves us. Organized religion needs to adapt to the information as we get it. It's at most a social club where your kids can get molested and raped. The conclusions each of the main ones draw about a God caring what happens to you or anyone here is showing false. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Religious leaders commenting upon news articles showing that church attendance is declining among Americans: this is the reason our world is in the state it is in! All this sinning, all these ebeeuhdoers [sic], all these wanton women dressing like sluts, sex education, homosexuals, all these people sinning around when they need religion--they need Gawd Almighty to rain hellfire down on their sinful ways! ---(proclaimed in one breath).

 

Also SBC leaders: Bring unto  us your children so we can expose them to Jes----*attorney whispering* oh wait, never mind.

 

 

In our own family, both my spouse and I grew up with organized religion, but, thankfully we never had the experience that all of the abused victims had.

 

[Captainant 27822]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Also SBC leaders: Bring unto  us your children so we can expose them to Jes----*attorney whispering* oh wait, never mind.

But it's DEFINITELY not """grooming""" amirite?? 

[Wally Fairway 5589]

How very Catholic of them

['stache 21889]

20 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah, well, it's not just organized religion.  It's organized everything.  The Boy Scouts of America, USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, Penn State.  And probably a thousand other organizations.  The reality is that any organization that puts children in the care of adults is going to attract predators.  And for whatever reason, it appears to be really hard to screen all of them out.

Assuming the screening fails, the worst of it is ignoring it and in many cases shaming and silencing the victim. If someone in my organization was caught diddling a kid I’d fight off the urge to beat them with a baseball bat and call the police, not reassign them. Religion is particularly bad amongst your other examples because they truly seem to believe that the diddlers don’t deserve punishment because of gods plan or mysterious ways or some bullshit. And seeing as they are supposed to be places to teach morality the worst part is the hypocrisy. Okay the second worse part is the hypocrisy.

[TwiceHorn 31546]

20 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah, well, it's not just organized religion.  It's organized everything.  The Boy Scouts of America, USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, Penn State.  And probably a thousand other organizations.  The reality is that any organization that puts children in the care of adults is going to attract predators.  And for whatever reason, it appears to be really hard to screen all of them out.

Yep.  I think churches may be slightly worse as young men with "unhealthy urges" may seek to quell them through religion, especially the priesthood with the vow of celibacy.  Others are more deliberately predatory.

[Captainant 27822]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Assuming the screening fails, the worst of it is ignoring it and in many cases shaming and silencing the victim. If someone in my organization was caught diddling a kid I’d fight off the urge to beat them with a baseball bat and call the police, not reassign them. Religion is particularly bad amongst your other examples because they truly seem to believe that the diddlers don’t deserve punishment because of gods plan or mysterious ways or some bullshit. And seeing as they are supposed to be places to teach morality the worst part is the hypocrisy. Okay the second worse part is the hypocrisy.

There was a video that made some waves a few days ago of a pastor admitting to "adultery" only to be confronted by a victim RIGHT THERE on the stage. She was sixteen when the pastor "committed adultery" with her against her consent. Aka - raped a child.

https://orangebeanindiana.com/2022/05/22/pastor-of-indiana-church-admits-to-adultery-with-16-year-old/

The video is pretty fucking sickening. After the confrontation his entire congregation comes up and give the child rapist a big hug.

Insane to believe that such a culture that celebrates and protects child rapists has so much power in this country.