[News/Updates] Mass Shooting at Robb Elementary Uvalde - 5/24/2022

[Captainant 27522]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Nobody was going to see them outside of the two people involved.

And facebook, who indexes your chat conversations and mine them for ad sales. Granted, I don't think it's reasonable to expect platform holders to monitor EVERY conversation, but fuck FB

[atomheartbevo 89512]

2 hours ago, Hmbre97 said:

You serious Clark? If teacher base pay were $100k, it would IMPROVE the quality of teaching/teachers. I'm sure there are scores of people who would make excellent teachers that can't do it for financial reasons. You'd increase the pool of candidates and schools could be more selective of who they hire/fire based on that instead of now where they are forced to take anyone that received their teaching certificate and can fog a mirror. 

As somebody whose wife taught for nearly two decades, and who is still in education, you would think that's true (and I would love for her to make six-figures), but all it's going to do is attract a shitload of people who think "4 years of college and an easy six-figure check" and it's going to lead to a lot of turnover as they discover it's a hard-fucking job made harder by dealing with certain types of parents, by certain tests, long hours, working in low-performing schools where the students need a lot more help, etc.   Or worse, you'll have a bunch of people just phoning it in and doing the bare minimum to keep those 6-figure checks coming in, which hurts the kids and puts additional workloads on other teachers.

We already have extremely high turnover in a lot of school districts these days as it is, even districts that are paying a 22 year-old a starting salary of $59,000.  Would $100k bring some of those teachers who have left back?  Some, sure, but it doesn't address the root problems already mentioned, and it's just going to lead to a lot of turnover.

Now if you want to talk about $100k for teachers who have done very well and who have say 10 years (or more) in the district, let's talk.

[atomheartbevo 89512]

32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

And facebook, who indexes your chat conversations and mine them for ad sales. Granted, I don't think it's reasonable to expect platform holders to monitor EVERY conversation, but fuck FB

There's probably a billion private messages on FB every day that consists of nothing more than "you awake" "your mom is a bitch" "your dad is an asshole" along with all kinds of variations on spelling, plus images, emoji, etc.

[TexEx15 17493]

I can’t fathom this kind of pain.

 

[atomheartbevo 89512]

 

[SydneyCarton 47942]

53 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

As somebody whose wife taught for nearly two decades, and who is still in education, you would think that's true (and I would love for her to make six-figures), but all it's going to do is attract a shitload of people who think "4 years of college and an easy six-figure check" and it's going to lead to a lot of turnover as they discover it's a hard-fucking job made harder by dealing with certain types of parents, by certain tests, long hours, working in low-performing schools where the students need a lot more help, etc.   Or worse, you'll have a bunch of people just phoning it in and doing the bare minimum to keep those 6-figure checks coming in, which hurts the kids and puts additional workloads on other teachers.

We already have extremely high turnover in a lot of school districts these days as it is, even districts that are paying a 22 year-old a starting salary of $59,000.  Would $100k bring some of those teachers who have left back?  Some, sure, but it doesn't address the root problems already mentioned, and it's just going to lead to a lot of turnover.

Now if you want to talk about $100k for teachers who have done very well and who have say 10 years (or more) in the district, let's talk.

You’re describing the situation now except you think more pay won’t attract more talent? Well ok. Or shitty teachers will stick around for the money as opposed to good ones leaving because of money and the job is a nightmare? 
 

how about you start at 6 figures, and you require an education degree? Maybe if you create demand then you can drum out shitty teachers because there will actually be a line to replace them. 
 

of course this has been a personal belief I’ve had for awhile. Pay teachers and police like doctors. Make those jobs extremely desirable. Then you can control the quality. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[atomheartbevo 89512]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You’re describing the situation now except you think more pay won’t attract more talent? Well ok. Or shitty teachers will stick around for the money as opposed to good ones leaving because of money and the job is a nightmare? 

It can attract more talent, sure, and more importantly retain talent.

But it's also going to attract a lot of the wrong types of people, and that will cause a lot of turnover and a lot of strain on their fellow teachers (and turnover brings its own problems as institutional knowledge is a thing in education).

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

how about you start at 6 figures, and you require an education degree? Maybe if you create demand then you can drum out shitty teachers because there will actually be a line to replace them. 

Again, if you do something that brings in a lot of shitty teachers, that creates nightmares for all the other teachers.  Most of us have experienced what happens with a shitty co-worker, and in some cases that shitty co-worker can create problems that far exceed the damage they should be able to do on their own, and it affects everybody on the team or in the company.

In the case of teaching, shitty teachers can put additional hours of work on their fellow teachers, and if a shitty teacher fucks around when it comes to standardized testing, they can fuck that school when the standardized tests come out.  That puts that school in a serious bind, it creates an ungodly amount of stress/work for the admins/principals, and it can even affect a school's ratings, which then cause problems with parents of kids outside of that classroom, etc., etc.

If a teacher is just in it for a paycheck and fucks around, you can have a situation where specialists (reading, math, etc.) have to be brought in to help the class, and all of the sudden that $100K salary is $100K for the teacher and $65K (or more) per specialist, and depending how how the grade is structured, more work will fall upon the shoulders of the other teachers, who won't get paid more.

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

of course this has been a personal belief I’ve had for awhile. Pay teachers and police like doctors. Make those jobs extremely desirable. Then you can control the quality. 

Again, as somebody whose wife has worked in education for two decades, I would agree with this, but you really have got to be able to filter out those who would just be in it for a paycheck.  Maybe the solution should be to keep the current entry salaries and then do a substantial bump in pay to $100K after 10 years.

We have seen an insane amount of turnover among both my kids' teachers over the past few years, as well as among my wife's friends and colleagues, and some of them, yeah, they've decided the hours and stress are not worth, and so it's possible that more pay would have solved a lot of that turnover.  

But good teachers really have to have their shit together and handle stress and people well to be a good teacher - you can't wing it, you have to handle stress, and you have to handle parents losing their shit because their kid got a B instead of an A.  Because good teachers have their shit together and are organized by nature, they can make good teachers at private schools with smaller classes and better hours, and just as importantly, can easily bail to numerous corporate jobs/businesses where they make good employees that make $100K for regular hours.

Just figure out how to crack that problem of people in it for a paycheck.  Hell, retaining solid teachers by paying more from the get-go could very easily save a district enough money to help cover some of the increased salary costs, because institutional knowledge and efficiency and not requiring a lot of help from other teachers/specialists cuts down on costs.

[fattyflattie 4637]

Dr money and I’d switch careers overnight. 

[tbone_ 14042]

Witnesses describing police as slow to enter the building

https://apnews.com/article/44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

[Captainant 27522]

8 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Witnesses describing police as slow to enter the building

https://apnews.com/article/44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

more detail:

Protect and serve, my ass! Three school resource officers and not one of them was willing to actually walk what they talk.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Just found out who was the officer that first engaged the shooter. We used to run in the same circles years ago. Cool guy. Won’t drop his name because I’m not sure if he wants the attention, but thought I’d share this pic from the hospital. Crazy. 
 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes

[Captainant 27522]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Just found out who was the officer that killed the shooter. We used to run in the same circles years ago. Cool guy. Won’t drop his name because I’m not sure if he wants the attention, but thought I’d share this pic from the hospital. Crazy. 
 

 

You should ask him why they waited so long to do something about the murderer shooting children in the school they were responsible for.

[Helobious 9503]

Fuck all those cops if that’s true. Rule #1 of mass shooting response for an LEO is to locate & challenge the shooter as soon as possible. That’s been the case since Columbine. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You should ask him why they waited so long to do something about the murderer shooting children in the school they were responsible for.

He was one of the border patrol tactical team members that actually went in. He was off duty. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes

[wildcat09 29308]

Dismantle the entire fucking police department and give every dollar to the school system, since apparently we expect teachers to do the job of cops and we don't expect fuckall from cops. 

[Captainant 27522]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

He was one of the border patrol tactical team members that actually went in. 

I'd still be interested to hear a cops take on why the school police officers apparently decided to wait for backup instead of confront the shooter with a 3 to 1 numbers advantage

[UnivTex34 1763]

5 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

He was one of the border patrol tactical team members that actually went in. He was off duty. 

Then he wasn’t the first to engage fucknuts. 
 

I just pos repped, Helobious. When that Yankee douche is making good points, we all have lost.

Edited May 26, 2022 by UnivTex34

[wildcat09 29308]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

I'd still be interested to hear a cops take on why the school police officers apparently decided to wait for backup instead of confront the shooter with a 3 to 1 numbers advantage

That was their advantage as he entered. It sounds like a lot more cops had arrived within a few minutes and they just sat around doing nothing, while parents of the children begged them to help.

I always thought the idea of disgraced samurai committing seppuku was ridiculous, but I think those fucking cops should see if it restores their honor.

[Sawbonz 27470]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Dr money and I’d switch careers overnight. 

You and me both

[po elvis 2070]

I did hear a story of a dad who was in the area who broke out a window and got his kid and some other kids out of another room.

[Brisketexan 104800]

Dismantle the entire fucking police department and give every dollar to the school system, since apparently we expect teachers to do the job of cops and we don't expect fuckall from cops. 

This.
Hot garbage. “Heroes” my ass.

[fattyflattie 4637]

12 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I always thought the idea of disgraced samurai committing seppuku was ridiculous, but I think those fucking cops should see if it restores their honor.

I don't see how they couldn't.  Fucking shameful.  

[CooterBrown 17953]

Cops are mostly former high school bullies that like looking tough. Pussies. Every last one of them.

[BurdineBandit 815]

That video with the dad is too much man. I didn't expect to be shedding fucking tears tonight,.It's not just the kids. It is mostly them, but it's also the knowledge that this country is beyond fucked. We passed fucked a long time ago. It's not just the kids, it's knowing that the people that could help this country don't give a shit because they're paid with "donations" to turn the other way. It's knowing that the institutions that fail us time and again are the ones lauded by the powerful's desired society as the "heroes" of our country. It's all a fucking farce.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2648]

starting to look like bernard was right.  if all this is true there is blood on these cops hands.  cowards. 

[Captainant 27522]

Yeah. It really is that bad. 

 

 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

All the training now is get in and engage immediately. Half the time the guy will just off himself when engaged. I’ll wait for confirmation, but that’s bad if they were outside waiting for a tactical team before going in.

[wildcat09 29308]

The victims’ parents should get to be the firing squad for those fucking cops.

[atomheartbevo 89512]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The victims’ parents should get to be the firing squad for those fucking cops.

They were too busy being restrained by the cops (you can see 3-4 of them holding a dad on the ground)

 

[atomheartbevo 89512]

 

[atomheartbevo 89512]

The shooter had too much time.  Those cops could have saved some kids.  Fucking cowards.

[tx 3 putt 76619]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

more detail:

Protect and serve, my ass! Three school resource officers and not one of them was willing to actually walk what they talk.

if I had a kid in there, the only thing stopping from going in is that fucking cop shooting me

[Jersey Man10 3525]

That video had to have been when the shooter was already killed right? Right???

[tx 3 putt 76619]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The shooter had too much time.  Those cops could have saved some kids.  Fucking cowards.

Every cop involved should get man slaughter charges 

[texas08 1599]

If LEOs literally sat outside the fuckkng classroom for that long because they couldn’t fucking kick a door in and waiting for back up….and assuming they were hearing gun shots going off inside the fucking classroom, then they deserve to be hanged…

But of course nothing will happen and I’m sure they’ll get Medals of Honor from fucking Abbott.

These videos are fucking gut wrenching.

[mycox 582]

3 hours ago, Jersey Man10 said:

That video had to have been when the shooter was already killed right? Right???

Fucking people read Twitter like it's factual news

[scottsins 1960]

If LEOs literally sat outside the fuckkng classroom for that long because they couldn’t fucking kick a door in and waiting for back up….and assuming they were hearing gun shots going off inside the fucking classroom, then they deserve to be hanged…

But of course nothing will happen and I’m sure they’ll get Medals of Honor from fucking Abbott.

These videos are fucking gut wrenching.

I also would like to know how much time elapsed form initial engagement to the shooter making his way to that actual classroom. Was there enough time for an alert to be made so that all teachers would be able to get their doors locked?

Edit: I guess this particular school had direct access to individual classrooms via doors from outside of the building, so it makes more sense now that the door wouldn’t be locked by the teacher yet.

It makes it even more apparent that the shooter had to be engaged immediately and aggressively.

[Homercles 10205]

I consider that another data point where ‘good guys with guns’ is not the answer 

[DigglerontheHoof 21099]

Every single one of those cops should be charged w/ 1st degree murder, found guilty and executed asap. 

[BurntOrange&White 39860]

2 hours ago, scottsins said:

I also would like to know how much time elapsed form initial engagement to the shooter making his way to that actual classroom. Was there enough time for an alert to be made so that all teachers would be able to get their doors locked?

Edit: I guess this particular school had direct access to individual classrooms via doors from outside of the building, so it makes more sense now that the door wouldn’t be locked by the teacher yet.

It makes it even more apparent that the shooter had to be engaged immediately and aggressively.

the timeline from the wreck of shooter to entering the classroom to breach of classroom door by LEO is going to be interesting. 

[Captainant 27522]

3 hours ago, mycox said:

Fucking people read Twitter like it's factual news

Well the source is AP in this case, it's just convenient to drop Twitter links because it embeds it into the post. Do you have some other source that shows otherwise?

[Homercles 10205]

A couple websites are reporting that Daniel Defense, maker of one of the rifles used, has pulled out of the NRA convention.  None of the sites are major organizations, or have documented slant, so take it for what you will.  If that’s true, good. 

[Message Board User 12391]

Cops being scared to go in also happened at Columbine & Parkland.

Abbott and Paxton need to launch an immediate investigation into this - this is a scandal of epic proportions.

[HRSchenker 2261]

Everyone loves to talk about our country's gun culture but the cop culture is just as bad if not worse. Growing up I used to believe that cops would fight to save a civilians life but these days it's almost the exact opposite. We value police lives so much that we don't want them being put in harms way even if it means innocent civilians dying in the process. I'm sure we'll hear more about it in the coming days but I can only hope that the story isn't as bad as the one the South Florida Sun Sentinel put together about the Parkland shooting. That kid had all the time in the world to kill kids, leave the scene, head to McDonalds for a snack, and the police still weren't inside the building. Uvalde doesn't need another Scot Peterson on their police force

https://projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/

[DigglerontheHoof 21099]

Just now, Message Board User said:

Cops being scared to go in also happened at Columbine & Parkland.

Abbott and Paxton need to launch an immediate investigation into this - this is a scandal of epic proportions.

They'll be declared heros by that ilk. 

[Captainant 27522]

12 minutes ago, Homercles said:

A couple websites are reporting that Daniel Defense, maker of one of the rifles used, has pulled out of the NRA convention.  None of the sites are major organizations, or have documented slant, so take it for what you will.  If that’s true, good. 

Well that and the shooter chose to buy a $2000 DDM4 rifle and murder a bunch of kids with it, so I'd imagine they'd rather not get the negative PR blitz. No idea how an 18 year old is able to just drop a couple grand on a rifle and ammo and not throw any red flags

Edited May 26, 2022 by Captainant

[aggie08 21461]

17 minutes ago, Homercles said:

A couple websites are reporting that Daniel Defense, maker of one of the rifles used, has pulled out of the NRA convention.  None of the sites are major organizations, or have documented slant, so take it for what you will.  If that’s true, good. 

And I'm sure they'll take accountability, and take drastic measures to limit where their guns are sold and, thus, who can purchase them. 

I'm just sure of it.

[Message Board User 12391]

This guy really, really loves the smell of his own farts.

 

[Message Board User 12391]

 

[cactusflinthead 27596]

Standing around doing not a damn thing except getting in the way.