[News/Updates] Mass Shooting at Robb Elementary Uvalde - 5/24/2022

[closetohumping 17,438]

Siap.  According to this kid Ramos was not bullied.  Sick fuck

 

 

[USCATX 1,078]

I’ve always imagined the ISD cops sitting  in their stupid brand new Tahoes at my kids’ schools would be useless if we ever really needed them, but I never imagined they’d be THIS useless.  

I’d like to think they’d have to taze me if I heard gunshots and didn’t see cops charging in, but who knows and I certainly don’t fault any parents for listening to the cops.  
 

 

[atomheartbevo 89,648]

40 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

Yeah I'm sure the US Marshalls were able to make it to Uvalde, TX within 30 min of a school shooter report. Use your fucking brain. 

I have relatives in Alpine.  They were involved in a school shooter exercise, and Border Patrol, etc, were involved as potential first responders.  There’s a ridiculous amount of law enforcement in some of those small towns, from local town cops to county, state, and federal.  

[Brisketexan 105,095]

I get that. But it seems some version of that was done by the first responders - the first couple cops on the scene.  Which resulted in their injuries and the shooter barricading himself in a classroom - if reports are correct. Breaching a locked and barricaded door seems different than that.  I understand the expectation is that the keys should have been quickly located and then the non-swat LEOs should have entered the room through the barricade and faced a shooter with a semi auto rifle and potentially body armor. That seems like the subject of an investigation 

Key? Key?
You have a lot of fucking keys. They’re called firearms. Your shoot the fucking lock assembly 4-5 times, it’s done.
Get to the shooter. Engage, engage, engage. The fucking former police chief on the news a few minutes ago said exactly that. You move forward, you attack, you engage. You do not disengage. Your job is to save lives. Even at the cost of your own.
Cops are worthless. Never ever forget that.

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Key? Key?
You have a lot of fucking keys. They’re called firearms. Your shoot the fucking lock assembly 4-5 times, it’s done.
Get to the shooter. Engage, engage, engage. The fucking former police chief on the news a few minutes ago said exactly that. You move forward, you attack, you engage. You do not disengage. Your job is to save lives. Even at the cost of your own.
Cops are worthless. Never ever forget that.

Nah GW Hayduke knows better!

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Key? Key?
You have a lot of fucking keys. They’re called firearms. Your shoot the fucking lock assembly 4-5 times, it’s done.
Get to the shooter. Engage, engage, engage. The fucking former police chief on the news a few minutes ago said exactly that. You move forward, you attack, you engage. You do not disengage. Your job is to save lives. Even at the cost of your own.
Cops are worthless. Never ever forget that.

I assume the door was designed to prevent a mass shooter from entering getting since the swat guys used a key to enter the room. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I assume the door was designed to prevent a mass shooter from entering getting since the swat guys used a key to enter the room. 

It’s an old fucking school, stop making retarded assumption to try and shape your shitty narrative. 

[hobbes2702 13,032]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I assume the door was designed to prevent a mass shooter from entering getting since the swat guys used a key to enter the room. 

Are you really doing this in two separate threads? What point are you even trying to make? The cops failed. Period. No excuses for what they didn’t do.

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s an old fucking school, stop making retarded assumption to try and shape your shitty narrative. 

I read that they used a key. Your take and brisket’s take is that they should have shot through the door instead of used the key. Ok. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

I read that they used a key. Your take and brisket’s take is that they should have shot through the door instead of used the key. Ok. 

Breach the door immediately or wait 40-60 minutes for a key while children and educators are being slaughtered. You are a fucking certified retard 

[Brisketexan 105,095]

I assume the door was designed to prevent a mass shooter from entering getting since the swat guys used a key to enter the room. 

That is a really, really, really stupid hypothesis. It is an old elementary school in south Texas. It is not a federal Supermax. It was just a fucking door.
And even if you can’t breach the door…attack through an exterior window, run a truck through the exterior wall. Anything. You do anything you can, whatever it takes, to engage the shooter.
It is literally THE CORE FUCKIG RULE FROM COLUMBINE. ENGAGE. That’s it. That’s the whole rule. Do it stand back and “set up a perimeter.” Engage, period.

Jesus fuck. I don’t known what’s worse, the fact that cops are worthless, or that suck ups will come up with preposterous hypothetical excuses to cover for them.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

I read that they used a key. Your take and brisket’s take is that they should have shot through the door instead of used the key. Ok. 

Breach the door immediately or wait 40-60 minutes for a key while children and educators are being slaughtered. You are a fucking certified retard 

This. 40 fucking minutes….when every second counts….waiting on a key. You are a fucking absolute abject moron.

[Bullneck 19,078]

2 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

He already is.  Do you want him to go to jail, or kill himself?   

It depends. Is he planning on having any more kids?

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s an old fucking school, stop making retarded assumption to try and shape your shitty narrative. 

Here is a the source that they had to use a key because they couldn’t get the door open.  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-school-shooting-loved-ones-071441288.html

 

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Here is a the source that they had to use a key because they couldn’t get the door open.  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-school-shooting-loved-ones-071441288.html

 

I don’t give a fuck about a key dude. And you’re continuing to prove how regarded you are talking about a key that they waited 40-60 minutes to get while children were being slaughtered. YOU DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO ENTER THAT CLASS ROOM 

Edited May 27, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[hobbes2702 13,032]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Here is a the source that they had to use a key because they couldn’t get the door open.  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-school-shooting-loved-ones-071441288.html

 

Whatever could they do without a key. They seem to find ways to open locked doors during no knock raids just fine.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

I don’t give a fuck about a key dude. And you’re continuing to prove how regarded you are talking about a key that they waited 40-60 minutes to get while children were being slaughtered. YOU DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO ENTER THAT CLASS ROOM 

This.

The entire mention in the story is “they had trouble opening the locked door.”
Then fucking solve the problem. Your job is to breach the room where a man is slaughtering children. Clock starts now….go.
I’d find a fucking way to breach the room. Shoot the lock 100 times. Break through an adjacent classroom wall (they are often NOT hardened walls). Use a vehicle to break into an exterior wall.
Do. Fucking. Something.
It’s 100% of your job in that moment. You have no other job or purpose on this planet than to gain entry to that room by any means necessary.
But they didn’t. They are failures. They are worthless.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

Whatever could they do without a key. They seem to find ways to open locked doors during no knock raids just fine.

Should have told them there was an unarmed black man with an ounce of weed on the other side. They’d have made a “dynamic entry” in 15 seconds, shot him dead, and planted more drugs on him.

[Bullneck 19,078]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Ideally swat would have mobilized faster than 40 minutes, even considering it is a small town, but isn’t establishing a perimeter around an active crime scene kind of a widely known thing?  Don’t they have certain cops dedicated to that when shit goes down?  Are folks thinking it would be best to let parents walk into an active shooter? If people are mingling around, between building during a stand off, wouldn’t that cause all kinds of problems?

Hmmmm . . . let's take a look, shall we?

Cops are tough guys with guns. They get paid for what they do.  They can pretty much shoot anyone they want (or kneel on their necks) if the situation requires (or even if it doesn't).  

Kids are in danger.  Kids might be getting killed.  Kids are in fact getting killed.

Tough guy cops should kill psycho with gun as quickly as possible.  

 

Apparently in this case there was a problem: psycho has an assault weapon.  This frightens the cops, as it should.  But that doesn't change anything, unless cops are more afraid of the assault weapon than they are willing to carry out their mission of protecting kids.

To put this in terms you might comprehend, if you're a fireman and there are people in a burning building, you don't sit on your ass for an hour waiting for more firetrucks when you a obligated to do what you can to put out the fire and save people.  

 

[Bullneck 19,078]

11 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Here is a the source that they had to use a key because they couldn’t get the door open.  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-school-shooting-loved-ones-071441288.html

 

You're cop, aren't you?

[Scheiss Meister 8,407]

I may have missed it, but I'm shocked that the cops haven't trotted out the "we were waiting for the hostage negotiator to get there" bullshit.

[hobbes2702 13,032]

I mean they weren’t drafted into the police force. They chose this line of work. They didn’t do their job. Every officer on the scene should be fired since they seemingly aren’t capable of meeting the requirements of their job. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,489]

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

You're cop, aren't you?

You have to tell us if you are 

[Chico_SA 521]

31 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I assume the door was designed to prevent a mass shooter from entering getting since the swat guys used a key to enter the room. 

Oh.  So all that training to lock the door AND move as much heavy shit behind the door is just to give us extra work while we move the kids to a corner.  Your assumptions are horrible.  The only thing that has been done with locks at most schools has been a request to keep them locked with doors ready to close.  

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I don’t give a fuck about a key dude. And you’re continuing to prove how regarded you are talking about a key that they waited 40-60 minutes to get while children were being slaughtered. 

If you don’t give a fuck about the key, then you shouldn’t argue about it. I get that you and brisket feel they should have shot their way in - or rammed through with a truck.  I think a battering ram is probably safer and more effective.  But in this case they used a key - I don’t think that is in dispute.  

We can talk about the 40 minutes to mobilize swat and get them to enter the locked and barricaded door. That is obviously too long considering the results, even for a town like Uvalde.  
 

But my original point is that it seems the first responders followed brisket’s source for engage-engage-engage.   That resulted in a couple injuries and the barricade situation. I get that his feelings is that they should have kept engaging.  I’m not arguing against that idea. Just stating facts, as I have read them.  
 

My other point is that good guys with guns isn’t the solution to mass shootings - this is further evidence of that. My point is that militarized police reform should be secondary to removing semi auto rifles from the equation

[Chico_SA 521]

Here is your fancy lock upgrade

[Brisketexan 105,095]

If you don’t give a fuck about the key, then you shouldn’t argue about it. I get that you and brisket feel they should have shot their way in - or rammed through with a truck.  I think a battering ram is probably safer and more effective.  But in this case they used a key - I don’t think that is in dispute.  
We can talk about the 40 minutes to mobilize swat and get them to enter the locked and barricaded door. That is obviously too long considering the results, even for a town like Uvalde.  
 
But my original point is that it seems the first responders followed brisket’s source for engage-engage-engage.   That resulted in a couple injuries and the barricade situation. I get that his feelings is that they should have kept engaging.  I’m not arguing against that idea. Just stating facts, as I have read them.  
 
My other point is that good guys with guns isn’t the solution to mass shootings - this is further evidence of that. My point is that militarized police reform should be secondary to removing semi auto rifles from the equation

You. Are. A fucking. Idiot. Of the highest magnitude.
The protocol is NOT “engage until you come to a door, and then just wait an hour till someone finds the janitor.” The rule is “ENGAGE.” That’s it. That’s the whole rule.

I’m presuming they didn’t have a battering ram handy, simply because it would have been such an obvious solution that they surely would have used it. I’m presuming they were regular cops, equipped with regular cop shit: vests, side arms (that is, they don’t have to be militarized warrior cops). Maybe a shotgun or AR or two, as some cars carry those. That’s enough. Go. Engage. Don’t stop until the threat is neutralized.

Everything else (WAIT DAMN NEAR AN HOUR FOR A FUCKING KEY? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????) is inconsistent with the rule.

And it’s not an either/or thing. AR’s with high capacity mags in the hands of anyone who wants one, AND horrifically awful policing of are both problems. Solving either can help reduce deaths. Solving both would reduce even more.

We’ll solve neither.

[TOR 5,548]

Who told the cops to stand down?

They should all be hanged.

ps. was this mutt involved with the cartels?

Edited May 27, 2022 by TOR

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

How did the shooter manage to barricade himself in the classroom in the first place? It was something like 12 minutes before he did. The room should have already been barricaded, and anything he could do to get in should have destroyed the lock enough for him to not have been able to use it to barricade himself unless for some reason they failed to get word out that all classrooms needed to be locked down.

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

From above article for @GW Hayduke to fucking read with his fucking eyes so Hopefully his brain riddled with being a complete fucking moron fans understand:

 

Quote

The apparent delay in entering the building deviates from guidance that became standard police practice after the 1999 Columbine High School massacre, which states that the first officers on the scene should do whatever they can to stop an attack without waiting for backup.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[CooterBrown 18,006]

To put this in terms you might comprehend, if you're a fireman and there are people in a burning building, you don't sit on your ass for an hour waiting for more firetrucks when you a obligated to do what you can to put out the fire and save people.  

Also, firemen don’t seem to have issues breaching doors and walls without a fucking key.

Why? Firefighting doesn’t attract pussies like being a LEO.

[Cody2422 271]

It really is sickening to find out such a horrible situation already is being made worse by the thoughts of “what if the cops did what they were supposed to do?”  They probably don’t save them all but 1 innocent child’s life (or teacher for that matter) would’ve made it worth it.  So you, as a cop, die in the process, you die a true hero and people celebrate your life as they should.  I have a hard time believing I couldn’t koolaid man my way through a fucking wall if there was an asshole murdering my kid or his friends on the other side.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

According to GMA this morning the building was not put into lock down until after he entered. He was outside shooting at stuff and people for 12 minutes before entering.

[hornmpa96 2,618]

Unbelievable that the school was not put in lockdown while there was an active shooter outside.

When we see the final timeline for this, it’s going to look similar to the Parkland timeline with several missed opportunities to save lives.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,652]

ugh

 

Miah Cerrillo spoke exclusively to CNN about her horrific experience that day inside the classroom where the mass shooting took place.  Miah said she and her classmates were watching the movie "Lilo and Stitch" in Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia's classroom when the teachers got word there was a shooter in the building, she told CNN's "New Day."

 

Quote

One teacher went to lock the door, but Miah says the shooter was right there — and shot out the window in the door.

She described it all happening so fast — her teacher backed into the classroom and the gunman followed. She told CNN the shooter looked at one of her teachers in the eye, said, "Goodnight," and then shot her.

there goes the insane super cop proof prison door theory.  fucker only has to reach his has through a the window to unlock the classroom door.  yet the cops needed a key??

 

Quote

He opened fire, shooting the other teacher and many of Miah's friends. She said bullets flew by her, and fragments hit her shoulders and head. The girl was later treated at the hospital and released for fragment wounds.

Miah said after shooting students in her class, the suspect went through a door into an adjoining classroom. And she heard screams, and the sound of shots in that classroom. After the shots stopped, though, she says the shooter started playing music -- sad music. She described the music as the kind where "you want people to die."

The girl and a friend managed to grab her dead teacher's phone and call 911 for help. She said she told a dispatcher, "Please send help because we're in trouble."

Miah said she was scared the gunman would return to her classroom to kill her and a few other surviving friends. So, she dipped her hands in the blood of a classmate -- who lay next to her, already dead — and then smeared the blood all over herself to play dead.

Quote

Mia said it felt like three hours that she lay there, covered in her classmate's blood, with her friends.

She told CNN she assumed at that point the police hadn't arrived on the scene yet.

She said afterwards, she overheard talk of police waiting outside the school. As she recounted this part of the story during the interview, she started crying, saying she just didn't understand why they didn't come inside and rescue them.

yeah cops. why did you waste time tazing frantic parents instead of rescuing kids?

[CooterBrown 18,006]

ugh
 
Miah Cerrillo spoke exclusively to CNN about her horrific experience that day inside the classroom where the mass shooting took place.  Miah said she and her classmates were watching the movie "Lilo and Stitch" in Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia's classroom when the teachers got word there was a shooter in the building, she told CNN's "New Day."
 

One teacher went to lock the door, but Miah says the shooter was right there — and shot out the window in the door.

She described it all happening so fast — her teacher backed into the classroom and the gunman followed. She told CNN the shooter looked at one of her teachers in the eye, said, "Goodnight," and then shot her.

there goes the insane super cop proof prison door theory.  fucker only has to reach his has through a the window to unlock the classroom door.  yet the cops needed a key??
 

He opened fire, shooting the other teacher and many of Miah's friends. She said bullets flew by her, and fragments hit her shoulders and head. The girl was later treated at the hospital and released for fragment wounds.

Miah said after shooting students in her class, the suspect went through a door into an adjoining classroom. And she heard screams, and the sound of shots in that classroom. After the shots stopped, though, she says the shooter started playing music -- sad music. She described the music as the kind where "you want people to die."

The girl and a friend managed to grab her dead teacher's phone and call 911 for help. She said she told a dispatcher, "Please send help because we're in trouble."

Miah said she was scared the gunman would return to her classroom to kill her and a few other surviving friends. So, she dipped her hands in the blood of a classmate -- who lay next to her, already dead — and then smeared the blood all over herself to play dead.

Mia said it felt like three hours that she lay there, covered in her classmate's blood, with her friends.

She told CNN she assumed at that point the police hadn't arrived on the scene yet.

She said afterwards, she overheard talk of police waiting outside the school. As she recounted this part of the story during the interview, she started crying, saying she just didn't understand why they didn't come inside and rescue them.

Wait until it comes out that the classroom door was actually a half light door like many classroom doors from that era and not just a small window.

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

as they should imo

[Homercles 10,205]

Did this classroom not have external windows?  Cops couldn’t hammer the glass out and engage from outside…or at least distract until they breached the door?  
 

So fucking stupid.  I can understand a delay in a locked down school trying to find a key…so start shooting at the lock, break the glass and reach through to unlock, start shooting from outside, etc.  Point being to do something…ANYTHING.  

I know I didn’t contribute anything new to this thread…but this one has me more pissed than anything in recent memory, even though these seem to happen every fucking week.  

[Bullneck 19,078]

As an architect I've encountered architectural firms that design both schools and prisons.  Nothing opens a child's mind to learning like being cooped up in a windowless box.  

Spending money on private school for my kids has been a huge financial drain over the past decade but I don't regret it.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Is this the reason you are excessively emotional? Because you are against solving the semi auto rifle problem? How many semi auto long rifles do you have?  Is your love for your firearms the reason you are excessively emotional about discussing facts? 

Are you really this fucking stupid?  You conclude that I am against doing something about high-cap semi autos, when I say the following?

Quote

And it’s not an either/or thing. AR’s with high capacity mags in the hands of anyone who wants one, AND horrifically awful policing of are both problems. Solving either can help reduce deaths. Solving both would reduce even more.

I literally used the fucking word "both."  

Your thought process are utterly fucked up, so let me get this super straight.  Then, take this post to the nearest third grader you can find, and have them explain it to you at a level you MIGHT be able to understand.

Our assault weapons culture and complete lack of regulations or rules is a problem, and it must be addressed.

When these events do happen, there is an unambiguous protocol, for ALL officers: ENGAGE, ENGAGE, ENGAGE.

That protocol does not require SWAT.  In fact, it expressly contemplates the immediate responders being ordinary cops.  So, your "oh, you want to militarize the cops" statement -- that you've made repeatedly without citing to anyone at all proposing that -- is a red herring and a lie.

Summary: we shouldn't have as many high-cap semi-auto weapons on the streets, and the shouldn't be in the hands of just anyone who wants one.  BUT, when someone starts using one in a mass shooting event, we can and should expect law enforcement arriving on the scene, using WHATEVER tools they have immediately at hand, to engage the shooter.  If they won't do that, then GTFO of the law enforcement business.

That's it.  That's all anyone is saying, while you flail about and misdirect arguing that we somehow oppose any further gun control, that what we REALLY want is fully mliitarized police, and that apparently, fucking elementary classroom door locks are the most powerful block to law enforcement action in human history.  You are a fucking disingenuous moronic piece of dick.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

as they should imo

They'll put GW on the case.  The file will be one page:

"The diabolical killer used an unbreakable piece of technology to foil all efforts: he locked a classroom door.  Once he did that, nothing could be done.  Case closed."

[Murfdogg21 4,412]

Whatever happened to flash bangs that they throw through the window before busting down the door?

[Deej 76,759]

I'm sure the UPD has at least one military surplus armored personnel carrier they could have driven through the wall.

[Seasick Sailor 3,747]

The fucking door had a window, and it had already been shot out. Fuck these fucking coward cops. They should have to dig the fucking graves. 

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Are you really this fucking stupid?  You conclude that I am against doing something about high-cap semi autos, when I say the following?

I literally used the fucking word "both."  

Your thought process are utterly fucked up, so let me get this super straight.  Then, take this post to the nearest third grader you can find, and have them explain it to you at a level you MIGHT be able to understand.

Our assault weapons culture and complete lack of regulations or rules is a problem, and it must be addressed.

When these events do happen, there is an unambiguous protocol, for ALL officers: ENGAGE, ENGAGE, ENGAGE.

That protocol does not require SWAT.  In fact, it expressly contemplates the immediate responders being ordinary cops.  So, your "oh, you want to militarize the cops" statement -- that you've made repeatedly without citing to anyone at all proposing that -- is a red herring and a lie.

Summary: we shouldn't have as many high-cap semi-auto weapons on the streets, and the shouldn't be in the hands of just anyone who wants one.  BUT, when someone starts using one in a mass shooting event, we can and should expect law enforcement arriving on the scene, using WHATEVER tools they have immediately at hand, to engage the shooter.  If they won't do that, then GTFO of the law enforcement business.

That's it.  That's all anyone is saying, while you flail about and misdirect arguing that we somehow oppose any further gun control, that what we REALLY want is fully mliitarized police, and that apparently, fucking elementary classroom door locks are the most powerful block to law enforcement action in human history.  You are a fucking disingenuous moronic piece of dick.

 

I get that you say you don't want more militarization, but "fixing cops," "getting them to do their jobs," "making them more effective," "getting them to drive into buildings," "being perfect 100% of the time every time," "getting them to ENGAGE, ENGAGE, ENGAGE," or whatever - on a large nationwide scale with short response times in every small community in the US would require reforms in the direction of more militarization. 

Your position is that we can do all of that without more militarization. Ok. How does that happen without more militarization? How does that happen across the US in every small town?

The expectation that we have all the small towns across the US be able to breach against a guy with a semi auto rifle and potential body armor in a short amount of time would require more militarization - more "warrior" training, more armed police, etc..  Uvalde appears to be evidence of that.  Decreasing our mass shooting problem through more effective police actions and faster swat response times, etc. - would require more militarization - more training - more armed police, etc.

More militarization as a means of appreciably decreasing mass shooting events is the wrong direction IMO - the right direction lies elsewhere IMO - and that direction mostly lies with mostly with gun reform.

[SHOOTER12 8,800]

18 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

How many versions of events exist now? Jesus fucking christ

THIS.RIGHT.HERE.

don't know what to believe anymore.  It's like a bad dream. 

[tbone_ 14,115]

THIS.RIGHT.HERE.
don't know what to believe anymore.  It's like a bad dream. 

It’s pretty simple. Some kid bought guns and bullets and shot up a school for about an hour. Killed a bunch of kids and a couple teachers. And no one did shit until he was through. Except for a couple of outlaw parents.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

6 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

getting them to ENGAGE, ENGAGE, ENGAGE," or whatever - on a large nationwide scale with short response times in every small community in the US would require reforms in the direction of more militarization. 

False.  Functionally every cop carries a sidearm.  They are required to be trained in the use of that sidearm, including how to engage armed suspects.  There are hundreds/thousands of examples every year of ordinary cops engaging an armed suspect using only their sidearm.  Do that.  That's all I'm asking/demanding.

For fuck's sake, I don't have ANY formal training.  But I own firearms and know how to use them.  IF you'd called me and said "Brisket, there's someone who has gone into your kid's school and is shooting kids -- can you get there and help them?", I would have damned well grabbed a weapon (probably a shotgun), and gone and engaged.  If all I did was exchange fire and draw fire away from the kids, I'd do that.  If I came to a locked door, I'd blow the fucking lock.  Because I would have a singular mission: get to the shooter and stop him, or at least keep him from shooting kids as long as I can.

It is not too much to ask trained cops (I mean, every affidavit they sign starts with "based on my years of experience and extensive training") to engage an armed suspect.  It's the reason they carry a weapon.

If cops who carry a weapon aren't willing to use it to save lives, then they shouldn't carry them at all.

[SHOOTER12 8,800]

7 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It’s pretty simple. Some kid bought guns and bullets and shot up a school for about an hour. Killed a bunch of kids and a couple teachers. And no one did shit until he was through. Except for a couple of outlaw parents.

You know what I mean. First report was that response was made within 3 minutes. Then it was 30 then it was 40 and it was 4 what the hell really happened?

[Eastwood 4,394]

Really fucking tired of this argument. If you aren’t willing to roll out of bed, put on the uniform, punch into work, and patrol your area with not only the realization, but the expectation, that any random day will be the day that you need to step in and risk your life to save others, then you shouldn’t be a cop. Period. Full stop. Don’t beat society over the head for the last 4 years about how selfless cops are and how much they are risking and how much their families sacrifice and then create hypotheticals about the how and why sitting outside of a building full of dying children to wait for the best opportunity to intervene was the better option.

Children died mere yards away from their parents who were cordoned off by armed, armored police officers. Dying in a building filled with other children who were still living and breathing. Children who could still be saved. Explain that to me. Don’t explain the nuances of the job to me. Explain to me, as a concerned citizen with elementary school-aged children, who had to explain to his first grader on his walk to school this morning that 19 children died in their classroom but he is somehow safe from the same fate, how these chain of events happened. Explain to me how a town of 16,000 has their own tactical team HQed less than two miles away from an active shooter murdering children and still can’t clear that threat in less than 10 minutes.

Explain it to me.