[News/Updates] Mass Shooting at Robb Elementary Uvalde - 5/24/2022

[Hawndoh 2386]

Not every ISD has their own PD. My district is one of the largest in the state and we do not.

I don't know for sure but I'm guessing it has to do with money. Districts that get a shit load of money from Robin Hood have to spend it or lose it, so they spend it on crazy stuff. Districts that pay money into the system like mine can barely pay enough to retain good teachers. We can't afford our own police force. In fact a few years ago they cut the funding that hires a resource officer from the city PD and every middle school post their officer. They could only afford the high school cops. Then after one of the other many school shootings, I forget which one, there was community pressure to put them back in the middle schools. We still can't afford to put one in every elementary school, as there are dozens of those campuses.

And in the all the years I've taught with a resource officer on my campus, none of those officers ever inspired me with much confidence that they would much good in an emergency.

That's my guess anyway, I'm too lazy to look up where Uvalde lands in the gets vs gives money pecking order.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Hawndoh

[Herbie Hancock 7367]

https://www.khou.com/article/news/special-reports/uvalde-school-shooting/uvalde-school-shooting-texas-state-police-condemn-response/285-12e11ac9-93a2-4b88-88f3-ca43694dadf3?fbclid=IwAR1_3gntP_Qid0yHQx9R7EjlqRTdPwfo3oDvwJsihAUpbd430do79GuDSLI#l4ocqghzizeehcue94

 

 

Quote

McCraw told the Senate committee that Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde school district police chief, decided to put the lives of officers ahead of the lives of children.

 

 

[Jshep34 2316]

Ol Pete should be fired, arrested. Bet it'll be months before he ever shows up at a city council meeting

[Herbie Hancock 7367]

I’ll bet he resigns and moves to another state. There’s no coming back from this. The director of the DPS said you were complicit in the murder of those kids. He’s done

[bluto 4932]

First you give him paid time off during a months long investigation. Then you say all the victims were dead immediately so no extra blood on his hands. Then he sues for damages and retires on the ‘winnings’. 

[Goredho 17408]

3 hours ago, WBT said:

Why does every isd in the state have its own pd now?  What purpose does that serve?

I wondered this, too.  Just seems like it would muddy the chain of command during incidents like this, and split resources between two bureaucratic orgs.

[Message Board User 12395]

I cannot imagine the anger of the families of the kids who died.  

The cowardice of the Uvalde PD is incomprehensible.

[statsman 5472]

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

[Captainant 27680]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

And our ultra-militarized cops today are still too fucking scared to face an actual threat. Fucking disgraceful. 

[Pato del Muerto 52524]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

And nobody stopped the students who returned fire to keep him behind cover. 

[Goredho 17408]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

That’s what happened here, isn’t it?  It just took an hour for outside law enforcement to arrive and say, “Fuck this shit, this ends now.”

[Js1 85407]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

And our ultra-militarized cops today are still too fucking scared to face an actual threat. Fucking disgraceful. 

415 first responders (police/fire) died a little less than 21 years ago running into burning office towers that had planes sticking out of them, knowing they probably wouldn't make it out alive.  But they had to try. 

Today? Nope, the cops probably would have stood outside the WTC keeping the fire department out. 

[Pato del Muerto 52524]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

415 first responders (police/fire) died a little less than 21 years ago running into burning office towers that had planes sticking out of them, knowing they probably wouldn't make it out alive.  But they had to try. 

Today? Nope, the cops probably would have stood outside the WTC keeping the fire department out. 

I think they wouldn’t have gone in had they thought the buildings would collapse. I also think that event propelled both the hero stereotype and the internal attitude of stay safe at all costs into the monsters that they are today. 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

At minimum the commanding officer on scene should be fired and removed from his city council position. The more that comes out I think he should be charged with negligent homicide.

[Chopper 17238]

23 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

The door could still have been locked.

It's been reported by multiple reporters now, including testified to at the Senate committee hearing today that the door was unlocked. The locking mechanism was broken and the teacher had reported it and requested repair. THE POLICE DID NOT TRY OPENING THE DOOR. They were waiting for the children to finish dying and the killer to take his own life.

4 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

The House hearing was CLOSED to the public and held behind closed, presumably locked, doors. What a disgrace. The Senate held an open, sanitized for public consumption, hearing at the same time.

Meanwhile, guvnr Wheels is living up to almost everyone's expectation of him as a psychotic, worthess asshole, and is commanding even more secrecy and lies.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Chopper

[Deej 76830]

23 minutes ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

Actually, the two officers sent a civilian they deputized around one way, while the two of them went the other. McCoy hit Whitman with a blast from a shotgun, while Martinez shot him with his sidearm, then Martinez grabbed the shotgun from McCoy and fired another shot into Whitman. 

[Eastwood 4394]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think they wouldn’t have gone in had they thought the buildings would collapse.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Plenty of evidence of unfettered courage in those towers. Their selfless sacrifices solidified the expectation that all firefighters and police should have the mentality of laying down their lives to save others. Anyone not willing to do so should find a different line of work. 

[statsman 5472]

You can argue that those who went in the first tower to collapse didn’t know what was coming. I am blown away by the bravery of those that continued to run into the second tower, even after the first collapsed. 
I am disgusted by the cowardice of Uvalde LE. 

[4th and 5 4914]

[C-Man 27230]

57 minutes ago, statsman said:

You can argue that those who went in the first tower to collapse didn’t know what was coming. I am blown away by the bravery of those that continued to run into the second tower, even after the first collapsed. 
I am disgusted by the cowardice of Uvalde LE. 

Not that it matters but I believe the first WTC tower that was hit was the second to come down.

[Herbie Hancock 7367]

You can argue that those who went in the first tower to collapse didn’t know what was coming. I am blown away by the bravery of those that continued to run into the second tower, even after the first collapsed. 
I am disgusted by the cowardice of Uvalde LE. 

No you can’t. Go watch the interviews with guys that made it out. Go look up the letters that guys who were off duty left for their family members. You can argue that the profession has changed and the guys on the job now aren’t made of the same mettle that those guys were and I don’t know that I would have a leg to stand on, but the quoted above is 100% wrong.

[UT_OB1 2224]

56 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

8 officers there within 4 minutes of him getting in the building, and I have no idea how to interpret the fuckery with the patrol car and parking lot. At least 8 officers stood by while he fired at least 6 more shots over 50 minutes and there were know live children in there. Burn it all down 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

3 hours ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

I'm not sure I understand your point, but overall the police response was horrible in the Tower shooting. Whitman fired on people for 90+ minutes. 

Uvalde citizens wanted to do something but Uvalde/ISD cops prevented them from taking action. 

 

[kevwun 15797]

They even stopped an off duty Uvalde ISD officer from going in to the building.  His wife was shot and called him while she was still alive.  She ended up passing away.

[closetohumping 17449]

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Plenty of evidence of unfettered courage in those towers. Their selfless sacrifices solidified the expectation that all firefighters and police should have the mentality of laying down their lives to save others. Anyone not willing to do so should find a different line of work. 

Agree here.   Pretty sure many of them knew they were going to die and just wanted to save as many people as possible.  

[Wulaw Horn 19096]

I suspect the first part of this opinion is going to be unpopular for many, but it's mine and I will share it. 
I don't really get mad at these people who are mass shooters as a general rule. I think, if you look far enough down the line, that they are broken people, born with something wrong with them, and then generally kicked around by society. I think, in any other context or if you came across these (mostly kids) the day before they committed their mass shootings you would find pity and sadness for them and not hatred.  Hurting people hurt others and lash out and I find it incredibly sad and sorrowful and typically I don't get mad at these people that are called monsters by many. I'm not saying they aren't, or that you should feel the same way I do, but it's just my thought.

I won't get mad at the teacher who might have propped a door open or not locked it while going to her car to grab a phone. It is a dumb and sort of selfish act, but one made with absolutely no intention of hurting anyone. It's something that shouldn't have been done but not anything that any normal person would ever conceptualize would lead to the death of 22 kids/teachers.  I feel bad for that person that they have to live with that for their life.

The cops though, the cops I feel absolute and total cold fury and would love to see them hung by a yard arm. They get paid good money to serve and protect and they knew that going in.  That's what they are paid for.  People call them hero's.  You know, when you sign up for that job, that the bargain you make is that innocent civilian life is more important than your own. You don't have the excuse that you are a broken and neglected misfit shit on by society and in a pit of despair.  You don't have the excuse that you did something dangerous without knowing it. You flat out know that bullets are flying and kids are dying and you decide that your life is more important than your duty and the lives of innocents you swore to uphold and protect.  Fuck that shit man- there might be forgiveness and redemption in the next life but you damn sure don't have it coming in this one.  You intentionally abdicated your responsibilities and kids are dead from it.  Fuck right off deputy dipshit.  

No idea how the good people of Uvalde get through knowing that. It's honestly worse to me than George Floyd or Freddy Brown or the guy in NY. You could at least plausibly make the case that those officers didn't mean to kill the person they were dealing with, that it was a surprise and not intentional. This though, man this they all absolutely knew those kids were getting blown away and were going to bleed out and die and get shot if they hadn't already been shot if they didn't go in.  Knew it without a shadow of a doubt and chose to do nothing.  So sickening.  I can't even think about it or I would get overwhelmed by rage. I'm going to try to put this out of my mind and never think of it again.  I can't help but look at cops with contempt and that's probably not fair to some of them- but son of a bitch man, son of a bitch that is so disgusting. 

[Armybrat 40851]

4 hours ago, statsman said:

At the Texas Tower shooting, there was no training, no special resources and no plan. Two junior officers decided what to do on their own. They went to the top, carefully made their way to the observation deck, and improvised, “you go left, I’ll go right, and if you hear shots run like hell to them and try not to shoot me”. They had Whitman down in seconds. 

Those two officers were assisted by civilian Allen Crum, a manager from the UT Co-op store on the Drag. He ran into the Tower where he met APD officers and went out on the observation deck with McCoy & Ramirez.

Once out on the observation deck, the two officers went around one way and Crum went the other, and fired the shot that distracted Whitman so McCoy could kill him with his shotgun.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Armybrat

[kevwun 15797]

The Uvalde ISD PD's actions that day are completely indefensible.  If you aren't going to do your job in a situation like that, you shouldn't ever work as a cop again.

[Dahobbs 17625]

2 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

 

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

8 officers there within 4 minutes of him getting in the building, and I have no idea how to interpret the fuckery with the patrol car and parking lot. At least 8 officers stood by while he fired at least 6 more shots over 50 minutes and there were know live children in there. Burn it all down 

The cops shot a bunch of the kids, didn't they? That's the only way I can interpret this. 

[statsman 5472]

As bad as the UISD police chief was, I have to question why Uvalde PD didn’t just take over when they arrived on the scene. 

[kevwun 15797]

I would imagine the ISD PD has jurisdiction on school property, unfortunately in this case.

[Deej 76830]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

The Uvalde ISD PD's actions that day are completely indefensible.  If you aren't going to do your job in a situation like that, you shouldn't ever work as a cop again.

Tie them to the desks in a schoolroom and send in an active shooter. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

They even stopped an off duty Uvalde ISD officer from going in to the building.  His wife was shot and called him while she was still alive.  She ended up passing away.

He’s Uvalde PD

 

14 minutes ago, statsman said:

As bad as the UISD police chief was, I have to question why Uvalde PD didn’t just take over when they arrived on the scene. 

It doesn’t make a lot of sense. They even detained the UPD guy trying to go for his wife. 
 

 

[Herbie Hancock 7367]

I would imagine the ISD PD has jurisdiction on school property, unfortunately in this case.

You would imagine incorrect. A peace officer licensed in the state of texas has jurisdiction in the entire state.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21079]

1 hour ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

Only if the cops are finally inside. 

Otherwise, make it the new police station, the fucking cowards. 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

3 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

He’s Uvalde PD

 

It doesn’t make a lot of sense. They even detained the UPD guy trying to go for his wife. 
 

 

This is insanity. It’s like they were committed to seeing as many people die as possible.

[Goredho 17408]

1 hour ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

Not saying they should or shouldn’t, but Salvador Ramos certainly succeeded in shaking the walls of his estranged community.  If he could see this aftermath, he would probably be very satisfied.

[coachherman'sgrill 2211]

8 officers there within 4 minutes of him getting in the building, and I have no idea how to interpret the fuckery with the patrol car and parking lot. At least 8 officers stood by while he fired at least 6 more shots over 50 minutes and there were know live children in there. Burn it all down 

Not to nit pick but I counted 9. I hate to say it but they had to accidentally kill a kid.
I now work in public safety and some things that are invioable:
Reduce or remove the threat immediately
IC (Incident Commander) not good enough? Fire his or her ass
Breach with whatever you have on hand (someone mentioned a patrol car, that's what they are there for and why every LE has extras. Use the fucker as a breaching tool)
There is a reason why everyone has a tourniquet on them nowadays. Prep it before going through the door for self aid, know you are going to get shot saving KIDS' fucking lives!!!

I am disgusted by these no balls shit bags

[Captainant 27680]

Oh and now the Uvalde mayor's official position is that TXDPS is lying.

The unfortunate thing is this is a sideshow to focus all the attention on the cops failure and not the mechanisms that allowed an 18 year old to buy the specialized equipment to commit mass murder. 

[statsman 5472]

The problem is- if you formally state that the ISD police are subordinate to locals (which would be sensible; the ISD police are barely credible units, although we have them as the first line of defense in these instances), you give the ISD police the formal excuse to not engage that they wished for (“I was securing the perimeter while waiting for the city police to show up and take charge”), which is the last thing they need. 
Thank God the Border Patrol unit showed up. How do you make what they did (“What? He’s in there shooting and you guys aren’t doing anything? We’re going in!”) the rule?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Im as pissed as anyone about the closed door hearing but I imagine that was part of Arredondo agreeing to testify. 

[sidis 9832]

10 hours ago, Captainant said:

Oh and now the Uvalde mayor's official position is that TXDPS is lying.

The unfortunate thing is this is a sideshow to focus all the attention on the cops failure and not the mechanisms that allowed an 18 year old to buy the specialized equipment to commit mass murder. 

wow, how shocking...since that mayor seemed so even keeled and reasonable during the publicity photo op press conference farce they had that week.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

Sucks that people who need their asses kicked never get that anymore.

[jdhorn92 1552]

23 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I suspect the first part of this opinion is going to be unpopular for many, but it's mine and I will share it. 
I don't really get mad at these people who are mass shooters as a general rule. I think, if you look far enough down the line, that they are broken people, born with something wrong with them, and then generally kicked around by society. I think, in any other context or if you came across these (mostly kids) the day before they committed their mass shootings you would find pity and sadness for them and not hatred.  Hurting people hurt others and lash out and I find it incredibly sad and sorrowful and typically I don't get mad at these people that are called monsters by many. I'm not saying they aren't, or that you should feel the same way I do, but it's just my thought.

 

You are correct, my opinon of your opinion, is that your opinion is bullshit.  See the bold above.  You my friend have a warped sense of reality.  Have pity on them, sure, but to say you generally are not mad at mass shooters is a mind blowing.  There is no excuse for blowing a kid's head off. Period end of story....typically I don't get mad at these people that are called monsters by many...  Good God man, what is your deal.  Have you no respect for self accountability?  You cover your opinion by blaming others?  WTF

[Wulaw Horn 19096]

2 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

You are correct, my opinon of your opinion, is that your opinion is bullshit.  See the bold above.  You my friend have a warped sense of reality.  Have pity on them, sure, but to say you generally are not mad at mass shooters is a mind blowing.  There is no excuse for blowing a kid's head off. Period end of story....typically I don't get mad at these people that are called monsters by many...  Good God man, what is your deal.  Have you no respect for self accountability?  You cover your opinion by blaming others?  WTF

Cool. There’s plenty of people who can be mad at losers, outcasts and abused and broken people. I’m not one of them 

I’m not saying they get a pass or shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, I’m saying when I think of those people I feel sadness and not anger. You can feel however you want to. I’m not even telling you that you are wrong. 

[jdhorn92 1552]

5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Cool. There’s plenty of people who can be mad at losers, outcasts and abused and broken people. I’m not one of them 

I’m not saying they get a pass or shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions, I’m saying when I think of those people I feel sadness and not anger. You can feel however you want to. I’m not even telling you that you are wrong. 

Thank you Wulaw.  I think Im still just raw from the deal.  3 kids and school teacher wife (no pics).  Its a bad deal all around and the more I read, the hotter I get.  

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

23 hours ago, C-Man said:

Not that it matters but I believe the first WTC tower that was hit was the second to come down.

Correct.

The south tower (2nd to be hit) collapsed first.

Which also meant that many of those firefighter's killed were from outlying companies from other boroughs. The french documentary of the probie (downtown company) had ALL of their firefighters return to the station (even though they were a first arriving company and thus in the north tower), the last one back at the station was the probie, who many thought had died in the collapse.  Later alarm(s) arriving companies went into and up the south tower and died when it collapsed and fell first. 

For those saying that many joining now wouldn't or don't act like those killed on 9/11, there is some small truth to that.

Some join for the benefits, some for the time off, others for some whatever reason.

But many, if not MOST, that I saw come into my FD after 9/11, I think there was a greater understanding of what was expected (putting others before self) and what could happen to you on while on the job. Those that didn't or don't understand that, you try and weed them out as much as you can. Unfortunately, some still get in and remain in the profession. 

22 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Agree here.   Pretty sure many of them knew they were going to die and just wanted to save as many people as possible.  

Maybe not so much knowing you are going to , but KNOWING that there is a distinct possibility of it. You have to put trust in yourself, your crew, your training, and those that are leading you to get you through.

My dad and mom called me on 9/12.

Even though I had worked in the Fire Service for 13 years, I believe that was the first time they realized what I did for a living (when I became a firefighter, they were just happy that I was no longer jumping out of "perfectly good" military aircraft).

My dad asked me a direct question of "Why did they go into the towers?" And my answer was that is what you are supposed to do. They went in to get as many (ALL) of the people that they could save, and to put the fires out.

It was then, and still is the expectation.

 

[C-Man 27230]

12 minutes ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Correct.

The south tower (2nd to be hit) collapsed first.

Which also meant that many of those firefighter's killed were from outlying companies from other boroughs. The french documentary of the probie (downtown company) had ALL of their firefighters return to the station (even though they were a first arriving company and thus in the north tower), the last one back at the station was the probie, who many thought had died in the collapse.  Later alarm(s) arriving companies went into and up the south tower and died when it collapsed and fell first. 

For those saying that many joining now wouldn't or don't act like those killed on 9/11, there is some small truth to that.

Some join for the benefits, some for the time off, others for some whatever reason.

But many, if not MOST, that I saw come into my FD after 9/11, I think there was a greater understanding of what was expected (putting others before self) and what could happen to you on while on the job. Those that didn't or don't understand that, you try and weed them out as much as you can. Unfortunately, some still get in and remain in the profession. 

Maybe not so much knowing you are going to , but KNOWING that there is a distinct possibility of it. You have to put trust in yourself, your crew, your training, and those that are leading you to get you through.

My dad and mom called me on 9/12.

Even though I had worked in the Fire Service for 13 years, I believe that was the first time they realized what I did for a living (when I became a firefighter, they were just happy that I was no longer jumping out of "perfectly good" military aircraft).

My dad asked me a direct question of "Why did they go into the towers?" And my answer was that is what you are supposed to do. They went in to get as many (ALL) of the people that they could save, and to put the fires out.

It was then, and still is the expectation.

 

I still have hella respect for firefighters. Cops, not so much.

[Brisketexan 105154]

11 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I still have hella respect for firefighters. Cops, not so much.

Long ago told our kids "if you're in trouble, if it's possible, call the fire department, not the cops."  My kids' godfather is a firefighter.  He's as good a man as the day is long.

Also, had to deal with our neighborhood FD house, both the firefighters and EMTs, when my mother went into an acute crisis (from which she died in short order, at home).  They were quick to respond, knew what they were doing, and beyond compassionate.  Their kindness and solemnity when they brought my mother's body back to her bed was knee-buckling.

Nobody's perfect, every job can have its shitheels.  But to me, there's no comparison between firefighters and cops.