Downtown Projects

[yoladu 4090]

25 years ago... 1999.

 

people don't believe me when i say downtown Austin used to be a barren wasteland.

• I see Liberty Lunch down there!
• 2nd street has come a long way.
• lots of surface parking

[MAUFRAIS 6618]

Warehouses … full o’ spaghetti.

[Mittens 8256]

People have a REALLY strong attachment to Spaghetti Warehouse.  I probably walked through those doors like 3x and I don't think I ever ate there, but so many people mention it first when talking about that warehouse district area.  Not Mezzaluna or Sullivan's or Bitter End or Cedar Street or a dozen other memorable spots within 100 yards.  Was it actually decent food, or just the only "fancy" Italian place around in the 90's?

[MAUFRAIS 6618]

I was in junior high, dickhead

[Mittens 8256]

That wasn't directed specifically at you.  I spent the better part of 15 years working within a block of 4th and Colorado, so whenever the topic of a changing downtown comes up, that's where my focus goes, and an easy 50% of the time, whoever I'm talking to immediately brings up Spaghetti Warehouse.  Literally happened just last week.

[Armybrat 40822]

1 hour ago, yoladu said:

25 years ago... 1999.

 

people don't believe me when i say downtown Austin used to be a barren wasteland.

• I see Liberty Lunch down there!
• 2nd street has come a long way.
• lots of surface parking

And an earlier look (1897/1900) at that area….

https://www.austinchronicle.com/features/2001-01-26/80321/

 

 

Edited April 2 by Armybrat

[yoladu 4090]

26 minutes ago, Mittens said:

People have a REALLY strong attachment to Spaghetti Warehouse.  I probably walked through those doors like 3x and I don't think I ever ate there, but so many people mention it first when talking about that warehouse district area.  Not Mezzaluna or Sullivan's or Bitter End or Cedar Street or a dozen other memorable spots within 100 yards.  Was it actually decent food, or just the only "fancy" Italian place around in the 90's?

I used to love Mezzaluna. In my mid/late 20s, that was a fancy night out.

[justhookit 4191]

1 hour ago, Mittens said:

People have a REALLY strong attachment to Spaghetti Warehouse.  I probably walked through those doors like 3x and I don't think I ever ate there, but so many people mention it first when talking about that warehouse district area.  Not Mezzaluna or Sullivan's or Bitter End or Cedar Street or a dozen other memorable spots within 100 yards.  Was it actually decent food, or just the only "fancy" Italian place around in the 90's?

I think of Spaghetti Warehouse as more of an 80’s thing and like you I’m not sure I ever even ate there. Mezzaluna (which I loved) opened in what ‘89 or so? There was also a good older Italian place near the Back 40 bar. City Grill was another good downtown restaurant. Man looking back it’s amazing how limited the options were.

[Paper_jam 831]

5 hours ago, yoladu said:

25 years ago... 1999.

 

people don't believe me when i say downtown Austin used to be a barren wasteland.

• I see Liberty Lunch down there!
• 2nd street has come a long way.
• lots of surface parking

It's so beautiful. I'm not crying, I just got something in my eye.

 

 

[MAUFRAIS 6618]

I only have one kind of foggy memory of liberty lunch and I was outside watching a stage. So was I standing there just west of where lamberts is now?

[4th&Five 41506]

LL was one block west of Lambert's, iirc.

[Mittens 8256]

405 W 2nd St - Liberty Lunch
401 W 2nd St - Lamberts 

[Biff Tannen 45663]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:45 AM, Mittens said:

People have a REALLY strong attachment to Spaghetti Warehouse.  I probably walked through those doors like 3x and I don't think I ever ate there, but so many people mention it first when talking about that warehouse district area.  Not Mezzaluna or Sullivan's or Bitter End or Cedar Street or a dozen other memorable spots within 100 yards.  Was it actually decent food, or just the only "fancy" Italian place around in the 90's?

I remember going to Spaghetti Warehouse for my mom's (no pics) 40th bday and then they went to Maggie Mae's afterwards apparently.  That's one of my earliest memories of downtown.

[Armybrat 40822]

[YGIFS 19449]

I can't tell which is more hansom/handsome.  That cab or your great-niece.   

Edited May 1 by YGIFS

[TreatyOak 16311]

Old Austin sucked. People confuse a nostalgia for their youth with a notion that "things were better", but the food choices were awful, the facilities were second-rate, and the state office buildings and banks looked planned by a Soviet committee who then stole the money. The live music sucked, just as it does now. People smoked everywhere, and television was literally a form of torture. 

[texasdago 7566]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:28 PM, Deej said:

Flo's is still open on 35th on the West Side of Mopac. 

 

...and Flo's does good business.  Go at the wrong time and you're going to be waiting for a table.  The only other wine bar in that area was the tasting room for Wine for the People that was housed in the Spread & Co. location.  Always felt very temporary.  Oh... and Spread > Kerbey Lane all day long.  

[Deej 76752]

2 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Spread > Kerbey Lane all day long.

Pretty low bar. 

[texasdago 7566]

17 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Old Austin sucked. People confuse a nostalgia for their youth with a notion that "things were better", but the food choices were awful, the facilities were second-rate, and the state office buildings and banks looked planned by a Soviet committee who then stole the money. The live music sucked, just as it does now. People smoked everywhere, and television was literally a form of torture. 

The live music did not suck.

BUT

Old Austin downtown had a ton of ugly ass surface parking and aside from Liberty Lunch, I remember the only areas you wanted to be were 6th street and the Red River area.  Now there's tons of places to go enjoy being downtown.  The food choices were great if you were on a budget or didn't have much taste but I feel like Paggi House and Ruth's Chris was about as elevated as you could get... and yeah, Paggi house was where we took our fancy dates but, c'mon... wasn't it like a stuffy old person's place?

Old Austin is the Austin you remember when you were young and free.  College students today will tell stories of 2024 Old Austin before it was ruined.

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Pretty low bar. 

yes but, you know, Kerbey Lane "Old Austin" and such.

[TreatyOak 16311]

2 minutes ago, texasdago said:

The live music did not suck.

BUT

Old Austin downtown had a ton of ugly ass surface parking and aside from Liberty Lunch, I remember the only areas you wanted to be were 6th street and the Red River area.  Now there's tons of places to go enjoy being downtown.  The food choices were great if you were on a budget or didn't have much taste but I feel like Paggi House and Ruth's Chris was about as elevated as you could get... and yeah, Paggi house was where we took our fancy dates but, c'mon... wasn't it like a stuffy old person's place?

Old Austin is the Austin you remember when you were young and free.  College students today will tell stories of 2024 Old Austin before it was ruined.

yes but, you know, Kerbey Lane "Old Austin" and such.

I'm simply not of fan of live music, so I'm biased. I went to ACL this year for a half-a-day to cover the event, (all I could take, haha) and as usual, I was amazed at how poor live music actually sounds, at least to me. There's tons of distortion, etc. And the vast majority of the fans always make my head spin. Get off of my lawn!      

[YGIFS 19449]

The live music is better these days, but the quantity isn't what it used to be.  It's gotten way more expensive (well above regular inflation), and the accessibility is a fucking shit-show now.  Even if was a mediocre band, I miss being able to roll up to Steamboat for $2 in parking a block away and listen to some music with friends and meet girls.  Now it's $15 and a half hour just for parking.  And then the tickets, expensive drinks, etc.  Hell, even the proper "college town" I went to in a Florida has gotten sprawl and pricey.  But I romanticize it not because it was particularly great, but I was just 19 and everything was cool and different to me after leaving home.  

There are some cool pockets of Old Austin neighborhoods that really are different now, for the worse.  And that's a shame.  But downtown?  It's light years better than it used to be.  We all remember a handful of favorite bars, venues, and restaurants.  But we conveniently overlook that it was 50% surface lots, government buildings, vacant structures, and warehouses.  The entire CBD will be completely developed within a decade.  What Stream has planned, if the renderings their drunken VPs have shown me hold to even 75% of their vision, even old farts like us will look back at the current Dirty Sixth Shitshow and think, "Yeah, Austin's changed man."  

[texasdago 7566]

26 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

The live music is better these days, but the quantity isn't what it used to be.  It's gotten way more expensive (well above regular inflation), and the accessibility is a fucking shit-show now.  Even if was a mediocre band, I miss being able to roll up to Steamboat for $2 in parking a block away and listen to some music with friends and meet girls.  Now it's $15 and a half hour just for parking.  And then the tickets, expensive drinks, etc.  Hell, even the proper "college town" I went to in a Florida has gotten sprawl and pricey.  But I romanticize it not because it was particularly great, but I was just 19 and everything was cool and different to me after leaving home.  

There are some cool pockets of Old Austin neighborhoods that really are different now, for the worse.  And that's a shame.  But downtown?  It's light years better than it used to be.  We all remember a handful of favorite bars, venues, and restaurants.  But we conveniently overlook that it was 50% surface lots, government buildings, vacant structures, and warehouses.  The entire CBD will be completely developed within a decade.  What Stream has planned, if the renderings their drunken VPs have shown me hold to even 75% of their vision, even old farts like us will look back at the current Dirty Sixth Shitshow and think, "Yeah, Austin's changed man."  

Yeah, I think the live music is better, too... the quality... honestly, it depends what you like.  If someone is really into one style of music, then you get what you get.  I like all types of music cutting across all genres and I think Austin offers a really great blend of different bands and it spread all over the city so that you have great venues all over town.  Man, I was just watching a video of Kurt Cobain talking about ticket prices... its not just Austin, its everywhere.

https://www.threads.net/@philclifton/post/CxbhHL9IlSW

But yeah, drinks have gotten absurd.  My concert beverage of choice is now Lone Star.  Cheap and easy.

On the government buildings... yeah, between DT and campus was a bunch of garbage like this... 

 

[Armybrat 40822]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:32 PM, YGIFS said:

The live music is better these days, but the quantity isn't what it used to be.  It's gotten way more expensive (well above regular inflation), and the accessibility is a fucking shit-show now.  Even if was a mediocre band, I miss being able to roll up to Steamboat for $2 in parking a block away and listen to some music with friends and meet girls.  Now it's $15 and a half hour just for parking.  And then the tickets, expensive drinks, etc.  Hell, even the proper "college town" I went to in a Florida has gotten sprawl and pricey.  But I romanticize it not because it was particularly great, but I was just 19 and everything was cool and different to me after leaving home.  

There are some cool pockets of Old Austin neighborhoods that really are different now, for the worse.  And that's a shame.  But downtown?  It's light years better than it used to be.  We all remember a handful of favorite bars, venues, and restaurants.  But we conveniently overlook that it was 50% surface lots, government buildings, vacant structures, and warehouses.  The entire CBD will be completely developed within a decade.  What Stream has planned, if the renderings their drunken VPs have shown me hold to even 75% of their vision, even old farts like us will look back at the current Dirty Sixth Shitshow and think, "Yeah, Austin's changed man."  

Well, I won’t get to see it.

However it has been amazing to see the transformation over the past 65 years.

[YGIFS 19449]

You’ll live long enough to see far more than you possibly fathom.  For the very simple reason, you already have.  
 

My father would take me around Chicago on Saturday mornings.  We’d get donuts and he’d show me areas of growth and areas of decay.  I bet you did something similar with your children.  And the message was always the same, “some areas grow and some places die…just do your part to help people on either side.  There ain’t no world but this one.”  
 

but seriously with the fucking parking already…

[Armybrat 40822]

18 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You’ll live long enough to see far more than you possibly fathom.  For the very simple reason, you already have.  

but seriously with the fucking parking already…

Used to drive to class at UT from my parents’ house on Elmhurst Drive (near Riverside & I-35) up to park on San Jacinto next to Memorial Stadium in 10 minutes - if I hit both traffic lights right.

[Armybrat 40822]

Didn’t know where my vintage 1963 development flyer should go, but guess this thread is as good as any…..

 

[Ghost of LL 15531]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:41 PM, Armybrat said:

Didn’t know where my vintage 1963 development flyer should go, but guess this thread is as good as any…..

 

Wait--2244 (i.e., Bee Cave Road) used to extend over to Lamar?

[Mittens 8256]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Wait--2244 (i.e., Bee Cave Road) used to extend over to Lamar?

2244 > MoPac Svc Road > Barton Springs 

Pretty much the exact line on that map.

Edited May 8 by Mittens

[Mittens 8256]

 

[yoladu 4090]

Downtown - 2 have topped out or are very close..

• ATX Tower - 675 feet | 58 stories (will make it currently 4th tallest in Austin)
• 415 Colorado - 640 Feet | 47 stories (will make it currently 5th tallest Austin)

those will fall in the rankings when the Republic and Waterline get completed

[Armybrat 40822]

Are most of the little bungalow bars & eateries disappearing from that area?

[Armybrat 40822]

From the skyscraper forum….

 

[YGIFS 19449]

16 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Are most of the little bungalow bars & eateries disappearing from that area?

You know, I'm starting to think with your intimate knowledge of Rainey/Davis Street that you may be working with Nicole to get rid of some tourists.  Just saying.  

Old Statesman building having a cool art installation soon.  They get a chunk of the proceeds (tickets are pricey at like $35 for a 'Van Gogh, et. al. Experience."  Much of their cut will go to demolition costs.  Maybe we'll get an Ice Hockey franchise there.    

 

[Armybrat 40822]

Actually, I have not been to the Rainey Street area since is was a neighborhood in 1961 or ‘62. One of my classmates from St. Edwards High School lived in one of those old bungalows at the corner of Lambie Street & East Avenue. 
At that time I lived on Elmhurst Drive just south of the river between Woodland & Riverside…..where I took this photo (posted here several times) in 1959.

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah dude, I know you're not a serial killer.  Or wait, are you?  

I lived just west of there across near Woodland in Travis Heights in the early 2000's.  Probably a 3-wood hit away from where that photograph was taken.  

I don't know what's crazier.  How few cars there are in that photograph or that our highway system is the exact same despite decades of record growth.  

 

[Armybrat 40822]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah dude, I know you're not a serial killer.  Or wait, are you?  

I lived just west of there across near Woodland in Travis Heights in the early 2000's.  Probably a 3-wood hit away from where that photograph was taken.  

I don't know what's crazier.  How few cars there are in that photograph or that our highway system is the exact same despite decades of record growth.  

 

Two weeks after meeting the  future Mrs. Brat at mutual friends’ wedding in December of 1966, I proposed to her in front of the duplex at 1700 Alta Vista ( the southwest corner at Woodland (said newlywed friends rented one side).

[YGIFS 19449]

Holy shit, my buddy used to live in one of those units.  I probably stumbled home from there a couple times.  Small world.  The bigger this town gets, sometimes it feels really intimate still.  

[Texas Jeff 1944]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:27 AM, Ghost of LL said:

Wait--2244 (i.e., Bee Cave Road) used to extend over to Lamar?

There was an original bridge over Barton Creek that I think connected Bee Cave Rd through Zilker to Lamar in the 1870-1900 timeframe:

I have thought about taking a hike to find the foundations of the bridge, which I think are still visible from the trail through Zilker, but I've never done it.

[YGIFS 19449]

Where would that have been?  I know the general vicinity of where you're talking about.  It's a hop and skip from my house, but I can't picture whee that'd be today.  I'd love to take the kids on a bike ride to see that foundation and then show 'em this photograph.  I'm guessing somewhere behind Barton Oaks Plaza on the southern end of the park, but I dunno.  

[ChickenSandwich 9825]

Are there enough childless Austinites to fill all of these downtown condos?

[Texas Jeff 1944]

13 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Where would that have been?  I know the general vicinity of where you're talking about.  It's a hop and skip from my house, but I can't picture whee that'd be today.  I'd love to take the kids on a bike ride to see that foundation and then show 'em this photograph.  I'm guessing somewhere behind Barton Oaks Plaza on the southern end of the park, but I dunno.  

No idea.  Here's a pic from a reddit post of the ruins from 1908 and 2020.  The post contains a clue:

"Very close to Barton Springs. Just a few hundred feet upstream. You can see it if you walk down to the creek next to the greenbelt trailhead."

[YGIFS 19449]

The condos are doing just fine in terms of sales or leases/STR.  The office space is still a massive issue, though it's making a hint of a comeback.  

The curious thing about the high-rises is their ground-floor amenities.  They bend over for massive TI's because the tenants expect a restaurant or glamorized convenience store.  Then it's like Yoga Berra, nobody goes there anymore---it's too crowded.  But it's an industry habit.  It was like when banks took the bottom floor of every office building because it was a captive audience and now, literally half the bank branches/drive-thrus in our CBD make more selling parking spots than they do selling banking "products."  The last downtown Austin parking facility will be built before this decade is out.  Probably some kind of mass complex on Pecan Street by Stream to accommodate all the new office space.  Otherwise, we make one idiotic decision after another given our traffic flow, road grid, and lack of space in the CBD.  People want access to their car to take day trips, shop at far away places, etc.  I get it.  But in a few years, you're going to hit a button from your condo and your car will drive itself from an off-site location and you won't have to pay $400/month just for your parking spot in your building.  

[Armybrat 40822]

When we lived briefly on 17th Street just west of Guadalupe in 1960, there was plenty of parking on the street.

[YGIFS 19449]

Well it helped you were also on a horse.  

I get why you have to have ample parking for a condo or office space in this day and age downtown.  But it's going to be functionally obsolete inside of a decade and they're not building out modularly so it can be easily be converted to interior space within a year of the need to convert.  Reminds me of those storage units on West 5th & 6th.  If you need your shit so bad, don't pay $600/month so you can go look at it once a month.  Just get a cheaper place outta town.  Anyway, it's like our highway system in Austin.  We're just building ourselves into the past.  

[Armybrat 40822]

Yeah, all those  parking garages should be built with dual purpose conversions in mind.

But 99.9% of Austinites and the ‘burb workforce are never going to commute to work or go shopping on bicycles

[royiv 9247]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I get why you have to have ample parking for a condo or office space in this day and age downtown.  But it's going to be functionally obsolete inside of a decade

Lol. Whatever you say, Elon.

[YGIFS 19449]

59 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yeah, all those  parking garages should be built with dual purpose conversions in mind.

But 99.9% of Austinites and the ‘burb workforce are never going to commute to work or go shopping on bicycles

that's another thing that gets me.  When they tell us we can bike to work.  That's one thing.  AND those of us in Central/South austin have certainly seen bike riders with those little carts or side saddles with which to transport groceries or whatever.  But what cracked me up was when council told my commission years ago via staff that they wanted to build out more bike lanes around schools.  Because you know that fun, safe thing in August or September where you try to bike your 1st grader to school during rush hour.  That's a good idea, right?  They even toyed with the idea of buying more people bike trailers out of savings on bus routes.  Meanwhile, it's a fucking insane idea given the heat and traffic.   

1 minute ago, royiv said:

Lol. Whatever you say, Elon.

I'm actually impressed with the amount of charging stations we have on ground floor parking levels around the CBD.  I was speaking more to the excess levels of levels (pardon the redundancy) that we have already and are continuing to build of impervious parking garages that are largely money-pits.  But, I digest.  

[Deej 76752]

Our building converted the free charging stations in our garage to pay ones. Before people were fighting over them. Now, they sit empty. 

[Mittens 8256]

Thought this was interesting.  Have no idea how accurate it is.

 

[TKthunder2 4985]

11 hours ago, Mittens said:

Thought this was interesting.  Have no idea how accurate it is.

 

I literally will be there tomorrow and was told they had no availability. If they go broke it was bad management/accounting however that hotel is seeing plenty of business so someone would absolutely buy it and continue running it.