Downtown Projects

[Ghost of LL 15539]

On 10/10/2024 at 9:09 AM, Deej said:

This would provide more camping space for the homeless, I guess. 

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/austin-leaders-reimagine-congress-ave-as-pedestrian-plaza-in-proposed-project/

This is a really good idea, and long overdue.

There really is no traffic on Congress north of Sixth.  Congress dead-ends into the Capitol at 11th, so the only traffic on Congress is whatever is coming from north/south of 7th to go over to I-35 on 11th.  And that's really not much.  

With no vehicle traffic and with very little in the way of office or residential north of 7th, there's little to keep retail/restaurants in business.  The only things you have are a couple small restaurants and a coffee shop.  It's really the only area in downtown that you have a bunch of empty storefronts.

Pedestrianizing roads is great for street-level retail.  It is an absolute magnet for pedestrians.  And pedestrians are more likely to go into street-level retail than car drivers.  After seeing something they might want to visit, a car driver has to find a parking space, get out of the car, and walk over to the business.  A pedestrian just has to walk in.  For an example, just take a look around Madison Square Park after Broadway was pedestrianized.  Or take a look at Akard & Jackson streets in Dallas.  Or fuck--look at Speedway on campus and how much nicer that is than when most of us were students.

If you pedestrianize Congress north of Sixth, you'd turn a lot of those empty storefronts into some of the most desirable retail in the state.

[Mittens 8306]

 

[TKthunder2 4997]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:40 PM, Ghost of LL said:

This is a really good idea, and long overdue.

There really is no traffic on Congress north of Sixth.  Congress dead-ends into the Capitol at 11th, so the only traffic on Congress is whatever is coming from north/south of 7th to go over to I-35 on 11th.  And that's really not much.  

With no vehicle traffic and with very little in the way of office or residential north of 7th, there's little to keep retail/restaurants in business.  The only things you have are a couple small restaurants and a coffee shop.  It's really the only area in downtown that you have a bunch of empty storefronts.

Pedestrianizing roads is great for street-level retail.  It is an absolute magnet for pedestrians.  And pedestrians are more likely to go into street-level retail than car drivers.  After seeing something they might want to visit, a car driver has to find a parking space, get out of the car, and walk over to the business.  A pedestrian just has to walk in.  For an example, just take a look around Madison Square Park after Broadway was pedestrianized.  Or take a look at Akard & Jackson streets in Dallas.  Or fuck--look at Speedway on campus and how much nicer that is than when most of us were students.

If you pedestrianize Congress north of Sixth, you'd turn a lot of those empty storefronts into some of the most desirable retail in the state.

Is the thought that they want to connect it to 6th thinking it would bring foot traffic from there?

I think 7th is pretty valuable for traffic flow connecting 35 with Guadalupe, especially during the commuting hours. 8th is too but less so than 7th. These allow traffic flowing from downtown to UT/MLK to avoid the main commuter flows of 5th/6th (35/Mopac connect) and 1st (a cluster fuck everyone should avoid at all costs).

I don’t care greatly since I no longer have to be in downtown as often, and agree that 9th, 10th, and 11th could easily be closed off.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

9 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Is the thought that they want to connect it to 6th thinking it would bring foot traffic from there?

I think 7th is pretty valuable for traffic flow connecting 35 with Guadalupe, especially during the commuting hours. 8th is too but less so than 7th. These allow traffic flowing from downtown to UT/MLK to avoid the main commuter flows of 5th/6th (35/Mopac connect) and 1st (a cluster fuck everyone should avoid at all costs).

I don’t care greatly since I no longer have to be in downtown as often, and agree that 9th, 10th, and 11th could easily be closed off.

Not just 6th, but really from the Paramount and State theaters, too.  Have those as anchors at the south side of the project and draw foot traffic north.

It would not close 7th, 8th, or 11th--those would remain as cross-streets.  I'm not exactly clear on it, but it looks like it might close 10th and 9th.

Ninth is no loss.  It is closed at San Jac anyway because of the Pickle Federal Building.  And 10th really only sees very modest traffic across Congress.

[Deej 76918]

It's just a matter of time before they close vehicle access to all of downtown and provide no alternative but bikes.

[Chet Steadman 940]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:40 PM, Ghost of LL said:

If you pedestrianize Congress north of Sixth, you'd turn a lot of those empty storefronts into some of the most desirable retail in the state.

That seems like an incredible reach.  In fact, I think you would see the exact opposite.  Cutting off the vehicular traffic would only further depress these 4-5 blocks.  
 

Some of those existing businesses along the stretch would likely immediately begin relocating elsewhere as soon as their leases would allow them to do so.  

[Ghost of LL 15539]

8 hours ago, Chet Steadman said:

That seems like an incredible reach.  In fact, I think you would see the exact opposite.  Cutting off the vehicular traffic would only further depress these 4-5 blocks.  
 

Some of those existing businesses along the stretch would likely immediately begin relocating elsewhere as soon as their leases would allow them to do so.  

Well, please name one place in the world in the last 50 years where that happened.  Can you give me one place where the city pedestrianized a lightly trafficked vehicular thoroughfare and the surrounding area was depressed?

I can give you dozens where pedestrianization revitalized the area--in New York, Los Angeles/Santa Monica, Las Vegas, Miami, Cleveland, Brussels, London, Copenhagen, . . . .

The one real complaint I have ever seen from a surrounding "business" was in London, where the director of the National Gallery complained about the pedestrianization of Trafalgar Square because it brought too many pedestrians, who were making a bunch of noise that could be heard inside the museum.

[DalTxHornFan 3117]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Well, please name one place in the world in the last 50 years where that happened.  Can you give me one place where the city pedestrianized a lightly trafficked vehicular thoroughfare and the surrounding area was depressed?

I can give you dozens where pedestrianization revitalized the area--in New York, Los Angeles/Santa Monica, Las Vegas, Miami, Cleveland, Brussels, London, Copenhagen, . . . .

The one real complaint I have ever seen from a surrounding "business" was in London, where the director of the National Gallery complained about the pedestrianization of Trafalgar Square because it brought too many pedestrians, who were making a bunch of noise that could be heard inside the museum.

State Street in Madison, WI has not worked out great.

https://www.governing.com/assessments/the-strange-troubled-history-of-pedestrian-malls.html

[Armybrat 40908]

Well, this project would at least give the street bums a more comfortable spot to shit & pass out than is currently provided by the CoA.

[MAUFRAIS 6633]

This paragraph seemed relevant:

Pedestrian malls have succeeded in college towns like Boulder, Colo., and Charlottesville, Va. They have succeeded in cities with substantial numbers of tourists, such as Denver and Miami Beach, or in towns with a significant downtown residential population. They work where there is an attractive body of water nearby. Perhaps most of all, they work if they are easy to get into and out of, either by car or by an appealing transit system that visitors are willing to use. It isn't mandatory to have all these positive features, but it's hard to make the concept work if you don't have some of them.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

35 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

State Street in Madison, WI has not worked out great.

https://www.governing.com/assessments/the-strange-troubled-history-of-pedestrian-malls.html

I think you mean Chicago?  Because the opening paragraphs describe how State Street (Madison) has succeeded and evolved.

And @MAUFRAIS beat me to it in quoting the most important paragraph in your piece.  It's like the authors are directly describing Austin.

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Well, this project would at least give the street bums a more comfortable spot to shit & pass out than is currently provided by the CoA.

Ok, old man--we get it.  You're not coming Downtown regardless because it's faaaar too scary and full of "street bums."  Whatever.  Just keep your wrinkled ass up in Williamson County and let those of us who live or work Downtown decide what to do with it.

[Armybrat 40908]

Oh, we used to frequent downtown when it wasn’t overrun with the detritus of society. 
Go right ahead and turn it into Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc., I’m sure the tourists will be impressed with the street smells of urine & shit as they step around the comatose folks in the new walking parks.

It’ll be a great look for the Capital City of Texas.

Then maybe Washington DC will copycat them all and close down Pennsylvania Avenue.

[royiv 9355]

20 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Oh, we used to frequent downtown when it wasn’t overrun with the detritus of society. 
Go right ahead and turn it into Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc., I’m sure the tourists will be impressed with the street smells of urine & shit as they step around the comatose folks in the new walking parks.

It’ll be a great look for the Capital City of Texas.

Then maybe Washington DC will copycat them all and close down Pennsylvania Avenue.

This is flat out lazy hyperbole. 

[Armybrat 40908]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

This is flat out lazy hyperbole. 

No it isn’t.

My son, who lives in South Austin and is all over the central core frequentl for work and entertainment, has had multiple run-ins with some of the worst trash, and once had to brandish a (legal) firearm to keep a rather large aggressor from attacking him. 
Not to mention multiple trespassers on family property where the police were summoned and made arrests.

That is just in recent years but I guess that is no concern for the downtown highrise elite and the City Council nabobs.

[bolverk 29717]

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

No it isn’t.

My son, who lives in South Austin and is all over the central core frequentl for work and entertainment, has had multiple run-ins with some of the worst trash, and once had to brandish a (legal) firearm to keep a rather large aggressor from attacking him. 
Not to mention multiple trespassers on family property where the police were summoned and made arrests.

That is just in recent years but I guess that is no concern for the downtown highrise elite and the City Council nabobs.

If anyone were channeling a nattering nabob of negativity...

[royiv 9355]

20 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

No it isn’t.

My son, who lives in South Austin and is all over the central core frequentl for work and entertainment, has had multiple run-ins with some of the worst trash, and once had to brandish a (legal) firearm to keep a rather large aggressor from attacking him. 
Not to mention multiple trespassers on family property where the police were summoned and made arrests.

That is just in recent years but I guess that is no concern for the downtown highrise elite and the City Council nabobs.

Your son sounds like a pussy. I’ve spent lots of time in the urban cores of Seattle and SF (two of your examples of hellholes) along with Houston and Austin. Hell, I live in an urban neighborhood in Houston that has our fair share of homeless folks. I’ve never once felt the need to brandish a firearm. Maybe he needs to rent a room from you up in your Wilco bubble and you guys can hole up there like frightened little bitches snuggling with your gun blankeys. You have zero clue what makes a city great.

Edited October 23 by royiv

[Armybrat 40908]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

If anyone were channeling a nattering nabob of negativity...

 

45 minutes ago, royiv said:

Your son sounds like a pussy. I’ve spent lots of time in the urban cores of Seattle and SF (two of your examples of hellholes) along with Houston and Austin. Hell, I live in an urban neighborhood in Houston that has our fair share of homeless folks. I’ve never once felt the need to brandish a firearm. Maybe he needs to rent a room from you up in your Wilco bubble and you guys can hole up there like frightened little bitches snuggling with your gun blankeys. You have zero clue what makes a city great.

Fuck your snotty attitude…..just because it hasn’t happened to your royal ass.

Maybe some drugged out bum needs to beat your butt so you can see what a lot of the little people have to put up with.

 

[royiv 9355]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Oh, we used to frequent downtown when it wasn’t overrun with the detritus of society. 
Go right ahead and turn it into Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc., I’m sure the tourists will be impressed with the street smells of urine & shit as they step around the comatose folks in the new walking parks.

It’ll be a great look for the Capital City of Texas.

Then maybe Washington DC will copycat them all and close down Pennsylvania Avenue.

 

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

 

Fuck your snotty attitude…..just because it hasn’t happened to your royal ass.

Maybe some drugged out bum needs to beat your butt so you can see what a lot of the little people have to put up with.

 

I thought they were all comatose? Get your talking points straight, old man.

[Deej 76918]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

You have zero clue what makes a city great.

Homelessness?

[royiv 9355]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Homelessness?

Hurr durr 

[Deej 76918]

17 minutes ago, royiv said:

Hurr durr 

Well, from your post, it seems to be an important factor to you. 

[royiv 9355]

38 minutes ago, Deej said:

Well, from your post, it seems to be an important factor to you. 

Hurr durr

[PilotsError 2320]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:40 PM, Ghost of LL said:

 

If you pedestrianize Congress north of Sixth, you'd turn a lot of those empty storefronts into some of the most desirable retail in the state.

 

some of the stupidest shit i've ever read.

[DalTxHornFan 3117]

19 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

 

some of the stupidest shit i've ever read.

This idea has been getting kicked around forever.  If it made any sense, it would have happened by now.

https://austin.towers.net/get-lost-in-this-1976-vision-for-a-new-congress-avenue/?pro=jude@towers.net

Edited October 23 by DalTxHornFan

[Ghost of LL 15539]

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

 

some of the stupidest shit i've ever read.

Would you care to expand on that?  Why do you think this particular shit is stupid?

I mean, seriously--what's the cost?  It would close a road that very few vehicles use.

8 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Oh, we used to frequent downtown when it wasn’t overrun with the detritus of society. 
Go right ahead and turn it into Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc., I’m sure the tourists will be impressed with the street smells of urine & shit as they step around the comatose folks in the new walking parks.

It’ll be a great look for the Capital City of Texas.

Then maybe Washington DC will copycat them all and close down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I'm sorry--I really can't tell whether this is sarcasm.

Are you not aware that Pennsylvania Avenue has been closed for decades?  And it's kinda great.  People are walking around and bicycling right out in front of the White House.

[Armybrat 40908]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Would you care to expand on that?  Why do you think this particular shit is stupid?

I mean, seriously--what's the cost?  It would close a road that very few vehicles use.

I'm sorry--I really can't tell whether this is sarcasm.

Are you not aware that Pennsylvania Avenue has been closed for decades?  And it's kinda great.  People are walking around and bicycling right out in front of the White House.

Yes I am aware and have been since a small segment was closed by Clinton in 1995.
Two blocks in front of the White House originally set aside to prevent terrorist truck bombs from blowing up the White House isn’t the same as 10+ blocks of Congress Avenue from Caesar Chavez up to 11th being closed to traffic so trendy folks can strut around like theyre on Rodeo Drive.
And are you aware that 12 blocks of Pennsylvania Avenue are still open thoroughfare for vehicles past DuPont Circle to the northwest?

[DalTxHornFan 3117]

34 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Are you not aware that Pennsylvania Avenue has been closed for decades?  And it's kinda great.  People are walking around and bicycling right out in front of the White House.

It was only closed by President Clinton because of White House security concerns right after the Oklahoma City bombing.  Yay McVeigh & Nichols!  They were apparently urban planners as well as anarchists!

(Cross-post with Brat)

Edited October 23 by DalTxHornFan

[royiv 9355]

24 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yes I am aware and have been since a small segment was closed by Clinton in 1995.
Two blocks in front of the White House originally set aside to prevent terrorist truck bombs from blowing up the White House isn’t the same as 10+ blocks of Congress Avenue from Caesar Chavez up to 11th being closed to traffic so trendy folks can strut around like theyre on Rodeo Drive.
And are you aware that 12 blocks of Pennsylvania Avenue are still open thoroughfare for vehicles past DuPont Circle to the northwest?

That’s not at all what’s being proposed, but keep it up with your lazy hyperbole. While you’re at it, throw in another jab at the “trash” as you so like to refer to fellow human beings, the majority of whom suffer from mental illness and a large share of are veterans that served our country. 

[Armybrat 40908]

You can argue your empty shade all you like, I don’t care.
I’m talking about the ones who don’t want help and are a scourge to the ordinary people who want to go about their business without being molested or subjected to the filth that they generate. I have read plenty from downtowners who have described how Republic Square at times is not a place they’d care to visit because of the street bums.
Get them off the streets and into a facility for treatment. But that is for another thread.
Given the state of lack of control by the current & recent city “leadership, spending $130 million will attract more of the same and will cut back access to the central core and Capitol area for all Texans. That is pure folly IMO.

New York City had a brilliant idea by converting a defunct elevated railroad line snaking through the city into a beautiful walking promenade & park. You are probably aware of the now famous High Line project. 
While Austin obviously doesn’t have ant defunct elevated rail lines, similar structures could be built from scratch for the pedestrian/parkways  - have one a block or two west of Congress running north & south and another a block or two east of Congress with both stretching from Caesar Chavez up past the Capitol complex towards UT.

Edited October 24 by Armybrat

[MAUFRAIS 6633]

Broadway too

[royiv 9355]

3 hours ago, Armybrat said:

You can argue your empty shade all you like, I don’t care.
I’m talking about the ones who don’t want help and are a scourge to the ordinary people who want to go about their business without being molested or subjected to the filth that they generate. I have read plenty from downtowners who have described how Republic Square at times is not a place they’d care to visit because of the street bums.
Get them off the streets and into a facility for treatment. But that is for another thread.
Given the state of lack of control by the current & recent city “leadership, spending $130 million will attract more of the same and will cut back access to the central core and Capitol area for all Texans. That is pure folly IMO.

New York City had a brilliant idea by converting a defunct elevated railroad line snaking through the city into a beautiful walking promenade & park. You are probably aware of the now famous High Line project. 
While Austin obviously doesn’t have ant defunct elevated rail lines, similar structures could be built from scratch for the pedestrian/parkways  - have one a block or two west of Congress running north & south and another a block or two east of Congress with both stretching from Caesar Chavez up past the Capitol complex towards UT.

Since you’re retired, why don’t you spend some of your free time volunteering for Mobile Loaves and Fishes and go help the ones that would love a helping hand? Or is it just easier to polish your guns from your motorized recliner while you bitch about people who served our country?

Edited October 24 by royiv

[Ghost of LL 15539]

12 hours ago, Armybrat said:

You can argue your empty shade all you like, I don’t care.
I’m talking about the ones who don’t want help and are a scourge to the ordinary people who want to go about their business without being molested or subjected to the filth that they generate. I have read plenty from downtowners who have described how Republic Square at times is not a place they’d care to visit because of the street bums.
Get them off the streets and into a facility for treatment. But that is for another thread.
Given the state of lack of control by the current & recent city “leadership, spending $130 million will attract more of the same and will cut back access to the central core and Capitol area for all Texans. That is pure folly IMO.

New York City had a brilliant idea by converting a defunct elevated railroad line snaking through the city into a beautiful walking promenade & park. You are probably aware of the now famous High Line project. 
While Austin obviously doesn’t have ant defunct elevated rail lines, similar structures could be built from scratch for the pedestrian/parkways  - have one a block or two west of Congress running north & south and another a block or two east of Congress with both stretching from Caesar Chavez up past the Capitol complex towards UT.

Wait a minute--you want the City of Austin to build an elevated promenade so that the upper classes can jog along an elevated platform and literally look down on their social inferiors inhabiting the surface from their elevated perch?  And you think that's not just a tad dystopian?

Regardless . . . I really don't understand why you're chiming in on this thread.  You never visit Downtown.  You're too afraid, and you're too secure up in Williamson County to go visit a city.  So what the fuck do you care what the City does with any stretch of Congress?  And why do you care so much that you have to wildly misrepresent what the plan even is?

[Armybrat 40908]

Whatever.❤️

[PilotsError 2320]

https://www.kut.org/transportation/2024-11-20/austin-tx-i-35-caps-expansion-cost-estimates-soar?

[Deej 76918]

It's going to be one big tent city on top of I-35 when they're done. 

[Updawg 2286]

Will be able to piss and shit on the traffic stuck below.

[gsoda3 3282]

1 minute ago, Updawg said:

Will be able to piss and shit on the traffic stuck below.

rocks imo

[swraith 347]

From the KUT article

 

I wonder if caps 3,4,5 get approved and the 6,7,8 caps get discarded.

[royiv 9355]

My god, some of you guys will bitch about anything. Look north up I-35 to Dallas and take a look at Klyde Warren Park to see the model for what caps could become in Austin. Klyde Warren Park is an incredible urban amenity and Austin is going to miss out on an incredible opportunity that has the ability to change the fabric of central Austin for generations if it can’t figure out how to fund this.

[LCHorn 2631]

I’d like to know why TxDot isn’t catching shit for underestimating the cost to such a degree.

[swraith 347]

52 minutes ago, royiv said:

My god, some of you guys will bitch about anything. Look north up I-35 to Dallas and take a look at Klyde Warren Park to see the model for what caps could become in Austin. Klyde Warren Park is an incredible urban amenity and Austin is going to miss out on an incredible opportunity that has the ability to change the fabric of central Austin for generations if it can’t figure out how to fund this.

I agree.  I think Dallas was correct to get Klyde Warren Park built.  

The Austin proposals are for caps that are at least 2x the size of the park in Dallas.  I hope we get some caps built, even if the final cost for all the caps can't be digested.  I hope UT also drops some $$ to permanently do caps by campus to transform the 40 acres in a way that hasn't been imagined for decades.

[royiv 9355]

2 minutes ago, swraith said:

I agree.  I think Dallas was correct to get Klyde Warren Park built.  

The Austin proposals are for caps that are at least 2x the size of the park in Dallas.  I hope we get some caps built, even if the final cost for all the caps can't be digested.  I hope UT also drops some $$ to permanently do caps by campus to transform the 40 acres in a way that hasn't been imagined for decades.

Agree. UT should be fundraising the hell out of this project. It would be incredibly transformative for campus.

[Deej 76918]

On 11/21/2024 at 10:24 AM, swraith said:

From the KUT article

 

I wonder if caps 3,4,5 get approved and the 6,7,8 caps get discarded.

Yes, because Hyde Park folks don't want to be connected to the East side.

[yoladu 4094]

On 11/21/2024 at 3:34 PM, LCHorn said:

I’d like to know why TxDot isn’t catching shit for underestimating the cost to such a degree.

usually estimated project budgets include a percentage cost that accounts for price escalation. Now, potentially it was included, but at not a high enough percentage.