[Discussion] Mass Shooting at Uvalde Elementary School

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Where?  Just reading this board, it’s all over the place.  Serious question.  

There are no baby steps to be made because a group of people that owe their seat of power to the gun lobby argue any steps taken would go down a slippery slope that encroaches on your god given right to own an arsenal of military grade weapons. 

[Sawbonz 27,422]

30 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’ll look it up. My point was baby steps are better than nothing right now.  You start with safes/locks, or whatever. Something benign that you can easily pass, govt can help fund, etc.  All pass. Ok.  Now let’s look at licensing. Can be done at a govt facility at no cost. Ok, done.  You keep going and see what you can get, then the line gets drawn. At that point, you continue the fight we have now, but at least you got a few things in there.  

Nothing is going to get 60 votes in the senate. Nothing

[wildcat09 29,237]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

This is a political question, but of procedure, not D or R.  I would ask elsewhere but not even going to fafo there. 
 

Can our politicians of any stripe make small, one item bills?  Say we wanted to fix this as a nation, but will never “meet in the middle”, could there be a bill where the only thing passed is a law specific to safe storage, or minimum age, or any of another dozen mostly benign steps towards a solution.  At some point, we’d find the line that one side or the other wouldn’t cross, and there we are.  But instead of adding a bridge to a state, or money to some local slush fund, just a single fucking item and it’s relevant discussion.   
 

I assume so but we rarely see anything that’s not several hundred pages, so maybe I’m incorrect.  

There's one thing that prevents that at the federal level: the filibuster.

[gmr548 16,503]

Where?  Just reading this board, it’s all over the place.  Serious question.  

It would obviously appear to be somewhere short of “doing literally anything.”

[Degenerate Gardner 4,081]

It’s a bad break that the shooter wasn’t killed in some school shooting when he was a kid.

[DDD Dad 14,251]

17 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There's one thing that prevents that at the federal level: the filibuster.

Well that and two democratic senators. 

[F250 28,681]

56 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Restrictions on Government Access to Health Information

45 CFR Part 160, Subpart C; 164.512(f)  (Download a copy in PDF - PDF)

Background

Under the HIPAA Privacy Rule, government-operated health plans and health care providers must meet substantially the same requirements as private ones for protecting the privacy of individual identifiable health information. For instance, government-run health plans, such as Medicare and Medicaid plans, must take virtually the same steps to protect the claims and health information that they receive from beneficiaries as private insurance plans or health maintenance organizations (HMO). In addition, all Federal agencies must also meet the requirements of the Privacy Act of 1974, which restricts what information about individual citizens – including any personal health information – can be shared with other agencies and with the public.
The only new authority for government involves enforcement of the protections in the Privacy Rule itself. To ensure that covered entities protect patients’ privacy as required, the Rule requires that health plans, hospitals, and other covered entities cooperate with efforts by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Office for Civil Rights (OCR) to investigate complaints or otherwise ensure compliance.

Now you need to dedicate the next several weeks reading through all of the exceptions that have been carved out.

[atomheartbevo 89,416]

This is about right

https://www.theonion.com

 

[shnsajax 3,589]

Daily Reminder!

Fuck Ted Cruz

Fuck Greg Abbott

Fuck Dan Patrick

If you support them, then fuck you too!

[CooterBrown 17,905]

The ads write themselves if the Dems weren’t a bunch of fucking pussies.

[BurntOrange&White 39,648]

23 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

The ads write themselves if the Dems weren’t a bunch of fucking pussies.

I’m going to need some fact checking on this one. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,809]

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’m going to need some fact checking on this one. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61192975

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/guns-leading-cause-death-children-teens-rcna25443

[BurntOrange&White 39,648]

4 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61192975

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/guns-leading-cause-death-children-teens-rcna25443

I wonder if 2021 was the same?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,809]

20 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I wonder if 2021 was the same?

Not sure those numbers are out.  Here’s a graphic for up to 2020.

[BabaYaga 15,210]

15 hours ago, Doug E. Fresh said:

How about why the fuck does an 18 year old, or anyone really, need an AR-15? Explain that to me….if you can. This country has lost the plot.

Guessing you missed my suggestion to raises the minimum age to 25 for purchases and discuss the idea of owner culpability...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,411]

10 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

There's one thing that prevents that at the federal level: the filibuster.

And the filibuster isn’t even an actual filibuster. Today a senator only has to anonymously declare they’re “filibustering” and the senate processes halt. When you see a senator performing the historic filibuster actions, like Cruz reading Dr. Seuss books, that’s only for show. It’s unnecessary.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

what's terrifying about that stat is i'd bet the majority of those firearm related deaths were children of 'law-abiding citizens' that shared many a post on various social media outlets with some version of 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'...then their kid got a hold of their gun and blew their head off. 

[Brisketexan 104,590]

Guessing you missed my suggestion to raises the minimum age to 25 for purchases and discuss the idea of owner culpability...

Irrelevant. You support, without question or deviation, a party that will never ever ever let any of those measures even get off the ground.
So, you do NOT get to say you support those measures. You don’t. Your actions speak loudest, and your actions guarantee the current status and current results.

[BabaYaga 15,210]

21 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

what's terrifying about that stat is i'd bet the majority of those firearm related deaths were children of 'law-abiding citizens' that shared many a post on various social media outlets with some version of 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'...then their kid got a hold of their gun and blew their head off. 

Ages 1-19?  If so, guessing most were gang related

[BabaYaga 15,210]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Irrelevant. You support, without question or deviation, a party that will never ever ever let any of those measures even get off the ground.
So, you do NOT get to say you support those measures. You don’t. Your actions speak loudest, and your actions guarantee the current status and current results.

There it is...

[Js1 85,104]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Irrelevant. You support, without question or deviation, a party that will never ever ever let any of those measures even get off the ground.
So, you do NOT get to say you support those measures. You don’t. Your actions speak loudest, and your actions guarantee the current status and current results.

I don't get why this is so hard.  Why defend your voting history with "But I PERSONALLY support those things!!!" if you don't and won't vote for anyone who would even consider those things? 

"I'm personally pro-choice" - votes republican
"I support common sense gun reform" - votes republican
"I support gay marriage" - votes republican
"We have too much money in politics" - votes republican
"I do support a stronger social safety net if I have to pay a little bit more in taxes" - votes republican

[Hawndoh 2,382]

You support what you vote for, not what you say you support online.

[Deej 76,560]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

The ads write themselves if the Dems weren’t a bunch of fucking pussies.

Not for lack of effort on Boeing's part. 

[Pam Cummings 9,576]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There it is...

It's time to stop trying to pretend that you're anything other than what we know you to be. You aren't fooling anybody. Own your shit. Don't be cowardly about it.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There it is...

do you have a rebuttal for what he said? if so, we'd all love to hear it.

[BabaYaga 15,210]

2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

 we'd all love to hear it.

 No you wouldn't.  Your ideas are set in concrete and nothing I do or say is going to change that

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

 No you wouldn't.  Your ideas are set in concrete and nothing I do or say is going to change that

my ideas? what do my ideas have to do with anything? he suggested that you actually don't support the public policy initiatives you say you do because the politicians you vote for stridently oppose the measures you say you support.

what is your response to that?

[statsman 5,423]

46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Irrelevant. You support, without question or deviation, a party that will never ever ever let any of those measures even get off the ground.
So, you do NOT get to say you support those measures. You don’t. Your actions speak loudest, and your actions guarantee the current status and current results.

BabaYaga tried to start a discussion in the middle ground, at a place of agreement. This is a pretty inflammatory response- that he is not even allowed to have that discussion until he comes to your side, right fucking now. Or you’re not listening. Does this response apply to all Republicans?
 

Does this discussion style work for you at work and at home?

Edited May 26, 2022 by statsman

[Brisketexan 104,590]

21 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There it is...

No, HERE it is:

18 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

You support what you vote for, not what you say you support online.

You are not what you say.  You are what you do.  When your ACTIONS insure that the current policy path is set in stone, with no deviation accepted, then that's what you are and what you stand for.

Imagine how foolish you'd look if you said "I hate OU football!"......while simultaneously sending in your annual donation to the OU athletics fund and attending every single OU game clad in red and cheering for OU on every play.  That's how every person who CLAIMS to support any number of reasonable measures to improve public and school safety from gun violence looks when they slavishly vote for the same people who stand against implementing even the tiniest measure to do so.

Own it.  Have the courage to own it.  Have the courage to say "nope, I like things just the way they are, and I keep voting for people who promise to keep it that way."  Honesty is a liberating feeling, you should try it.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,060]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

BabaYaga tried to start a discussion in the middle ground, at a place of agreement. This is a pretty inflammatory response- that he is not even allowed to have that discussion until he comes to your side, right fucking now. Or you’re not listening. 
 

Does this discussion style work for you at work and at home?

Bullshit.  He blindly votes R and will continue to do so.  His "middle ground" means shit. 

[Brisketexan 104,590]

Just now, statsman said:

BabaYaga tried to start a discussion in the middle ground, at a place of agreement. This is a pretty inflammatory response- that he is not even allowed to have that discussion until he comes to your side, right fucking now. Or you’re not listening. 
 

Does this discussion style work for you at work and at home?

If my wife said "I think we should cut back on our household spending, I'm really pro frugality" while she was busy ordering a $5,000 set of china we'll never use on her computer......yeah, I'd use the exact same discussion style.  Because the contrast is so fucking bright that it's blinding.

You don't get to talk about frugality until you take your fingers off the keyboard clicking "pay now" every 5 minutes.

You don't get to talk about gun safety/gun control policy measures you'd like until you stop slavishly voting for people who promise to oppose, to the death, every single one of them.

This isn't hard.  If you are pro frugality, stop spending $5,000 a day on shit we don't need.  If you are pro ANY gun safety or reasonable gun control measures, stop voting every single time for people who promise to block every single one of them.  Until you do, your "I'm pro X" statements are in fact a lie.

[Js1 85,104]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

BabaYaga tried to start a discussion in the middle ground, at a place of agreement. This is a pretty inflammatory response- that he is not even allowed to have that discussion until he comes to your side, right fucking now. Or you’re not listening. Does this response apply to all Republicans?
 

Does this discussion style work for you at work and at home?

No need to suffer fools and liars

The only way the hardline “no compromise” politicians will learn those policies are unpopular is if Baba votes against them so they lose.

Voting for or abstaining is endorsing it. Abstaining is even worse - you’re just a pussy who can’t stand up to anyone

[Bevo 13,526]

Is anyone on this thread discussing the incident or is this just the politics and bashing thread?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

Just now, Bevo said:

Is anyone on this thread discussing the incident or is this just the politics and bashing thread?

i'll happily discuss Beto's presser stunt if you would like.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,060]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Is anyone on this thread discussing the incident or is this just the politics and bashing thread?

[statsman 5,423]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If my wife said "I think we should cut back on our household spending, I'm really pro frugality" while she was busy ordering a $5,000 set of china we'll never use on her computer......yeah, I'd use the exact same discussion style.  Because the contrast is so fucking bright that it's blinding.

You don't get to talk about frugality until you take your fingers off the keyboard clicking "pay now" every 5 minutes.

You don't get to talk about gun safety/gun control policy measures you'd like until you stop slavishly voting for people who promise to oppose, to the death, every single one of them.

This isn't hard.  If you are pro frugality, stop spending $5,000 a day on shit we don't need.  If you are pro ANY gun safety or reasonable gun control measures, stop voting every single time for people who promise to block every single one of them.  Until you do, your "I'm pro X" statements are in fact a lie.

Do you support a political party leader with a son who lied on a federal form in order to illegally purchase a firearm? And whose status protects that same son from prosecution? If you do, does that mean your opinions are invalid?

Edited May 26, 2022 by statsman

[Foosters 17,730]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

Do you support a political party leader with a son who lied on a federal form in order to illegally purchase a firearm? And whose status protects that same son from prosecution? If you do, does that mean your opinions are invalid?

Lmao 

[Brisketexan 104,590]

8 minutes ago, statsman said:

Do you support a political party leader with a son who lied on a federal form in order to illegally purchase a firearm? And whose status protects that same son from prosecution? If you do, does that mean your opinions are invalid?

I voted for Biden because Hunter has an enormous cock, and I respect that.  I mean, if we're going to go down the "but Hunter's laptop!" path.   The fucking epic stupidity is unending, why should I be surprised to see people still stoking that bullshit flame.  And your statement isn't even true: if Hunter Biden committed a firearm violation, there is not a single thing about Joe Biden's status as POTUS preventing Hunter's prosecution, and there is no evidence of the administration preventing any such prosecution.  So, your lie isn't even a good one.  But, in a political world where lies and cruelty are the greatest of qualities, and they are admired and literally cheered at rallies, why should we be surprised?

Don't get me wrong......my support for the Dems is not strong, because I think they've been gutless pussies who aren't willing to do what it takes to fight for the American people and what we need from our leaders.  My choice is weakness/incompetence vs. cruelty/malevolence.  Lovely fucking world we've got here.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Brisketexan

[Ghost of LL 15,483]

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Is anyone on this thread discussing the incident or is this just the politics and bashing thread?

Yeah--I'll discuss the incident.  For an entire motherfucking hour during the incident, the Uvalde Police sat outside with their thumbs up their asses.

The Uvalde Police Department, by the way, takes up 40% of the City's budget.  It also just got a $500,000 grant from DHS for equipment.  It has a fully kitted-out SWAT team.  Here's a photo of them.

One fucking hour they sat around.  Not 15 minutes or even 20.  A fucking hour.  People at the scene told them "if you don't go in, I've got a gun in my truck and I'll go in."  The cops threatened them with arrest for "interfering."

Here's an idea--if we're going to kit out police officers like the military, then we ought to treat them the same way we would a soldier who displays cowardice in the face of the enemy.  That means a court martial.  And if found guilty, it means execution by firing squad.  "Pour encourager les autres."

Is that enough discussion of the motherfucking incident for you?

[Pam Cummings 9,576]

23 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Is anyone on this thread discussing the incident or is this just the politics and bashing thread?

Remember when people who did and believed shit like this were considered to be deranged nutjobs, and not featured by any of our mainstream political parties? I sure miss those days.

[Celery Man 20,883]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I'll discuss the incident.  For an entire motherfucking hour during the incident, the Uvalde Police sat outside with their thumbs up their asses.

The Uvalde Police Department, by the way, takes up 40% of the City's budget.  It also just got a $500,000 grant from DHS for equipment.  It has a fully kitted-out SWAT team.  Here's a photo of them.

One fucking hour they sat around.  Not 15 minutes or even 20.  A fucking hour.  People at the scene told them "if you don't go in, I've got a gun in my truck and I'll go in."  The cops threatened them with arrest for "interfering."

Here's an idea--if we're going to kit out police officers like the military, then we ought to treat them the same way we would a soldier who displays cowardice in the face of the enemy.  That means a court martial.  And if found guilty, it means execution by firing squad.  "Pour encourager les autres."

Is that enough discussion of the motherfucking incident for you?

Maybe these guys should get fewer funds.

[Pato del Muerto 52,342]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Maybe these guys should get fewer funds.

Defunder!

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Maybe these guys should get fewer funds.

oh look, an anarchist!

[Celery Man 20,883]

1 hour ago, Hawndoh said:

You support what you vote for, not what you say you support online.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,809]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Ages 1-19?  If so, guessing most were gang related

Nope.  here are the under 17 figures.

[gmr548 16,503]

Do you support a political party leader with a son who lied on a federal form in order to illegally purchase a firearm? And whose status protects that same son from prosecution? If you do, does that mean your opinions are invalid?

Lmao fuck off back to texags. What a pathetic attempt at deflection. Tell me you have no argument without telling me you have no argument.

[Ghost of LL 15,483]

17 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Maybe these guys should get fewer funds.

I don't want them defunded.  I want them court martialed.  And if they are convicted of showing cowardice in the face of the enemy, I want them lined up against a wall and fucking shot.

[Bevo 13,526]

31 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I'll discuss the incident.  For an entire motherfucking hour during the incident, the Uvalde Police sat outside with their thumbs up their asses.

The Uvalde Police Department, by the way, takes up 40% of the City's budget.  It also just got a $500,000 grant from DHS for equipment.  It has a fully kitted-out SWAT team.  Here's a photo of them.

One fucking hour they sat around.  Not 15 minutes or even 20.  A fucking hour.  People at the scene told them "if you don't go in, I've got a gun in my truck and I'll go in."  The cops threatened them with arrest for "interfering."

Here's an idea--if we're going to kit out police officers like the military, then we ought to treat them the same way we would a soldier who displays cowardice in the face of the enemy.  That means a court martial.  And if found guilty, it means execution by firing squad.  "Pour encourager les autres."

Is that enough discussion of the motherfucking incident for you?

Yes, because it actually is information. Kudos.

What was the background story? Was he being chased and then hid is car in a ditch and ran into the school or was he just wanted.

[mdmost 42,860]

I had this long missive written about how we're so fractured as a country that we can't solve this problem. But it doesn't matter. At this point, you send your kids to school or to the mall and you hope their number isn't called that day.  All because we won't come together to have even sensible discussion on what we can do as a society to ensure an 18 year old doesn't have access to weapons that can render a 10 year old so unrecognizable that his or her parents have to offer their DNA so the victim can be identified. This is where we are now. We will get nowhere in this because there's a powerful segment of society who put their fingers in their ears and say "nothing can be done about it". Just think if we acted this way after 9/11. That was only 20 years ago. 

[Ghost of LL 15,483]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yes, because it actually is information. Kudos.

What was the background story? Was he being chased and then hid is car in a ditch and ran into the school or was he just wanted.

Who the fuck knows?  The cops keep changing their stories.