[Discussion] Mass Shooting at Uvalde Elementary School

[Halohal 498]

Where's the body camera footage?

[Muny_Tex 292]

Also: If Sandy Hook/2012 was the turning point for that bullshit, then the proliferation of social media right around that same time probably wasn’t helpful.

If my memory serves, that’s right around when Instagram became a thing and Facebook began its transformation from college kids to boomers/white trash as its core constituency.

[Dahobbs 17437]

7 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree solving mass shooting and our firearm violence pandemic will require a range of policy actions, but I don’t believe a more militarized police force should be part of that - or at least I would like to try the other solutions first. 

Why are you being so dense? Where on earth did I say militarize the police? I'm just saying there were dozens of officers there doing nothing. Fuck them.

[aggie08 21424]

6 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Brisk sales day. Not quite as busy as I expected - but steady.

Side note - we have a USP Expert in 9mm I’m in love with.

Sincere question, not trying to be snarky: did you guys ever consider closing the store for a week, and putting a sign in the window saying something to the effect of, "In light of recent events, we prefer not to profit on the misplaced, impetuous desire to stock up on even more weapons and ammo."

Maybe a handful of people see the sign and rethink their priorities. Probably not, but maybe.

Where are we as a country when a large segment of our population's initial reaction to these events is, "Shit, better stock up. THIS may be the school shooting that finally results in regulations with some actual teeth."?

And I know plenty of generally good and decent people who fit that bill.

[DigglerontheHoof 21052]

25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why are you being so dense? Where on earth did I say militarize the police? I'm just saying there were dozens of officers there doing nothing. Fuck them.

He's either a cop or has a close friend/family member who is.  He appears to refuse to acknowledge these cops are cowards to their core. 

[Bateshorn 9898]

2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

He's either a cop or has a close friend/family member who is.  He appears to refuse to acknowledge these cops are cowards to their core. 

It’s so weird to me that we’ve venerated LEO to the level it has become in modern society  Cop was what the bully athletes who got shit grades did after high school. The ones who couldn’t hack it in the trade classes. 

[SamsCorner 395]

8 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

I'd bet a million bucks that if a crew of firemen had shown up at that elementary school before the cops did, that shit wouldn't have lasted 40 minutes. 

From now on I'm rooting for the firemen in those fireman vs. cops charity hockey games.

[Celery Man 20882]

If we can’t or won’t expect run of the mill cops to go in and engage, perhaps e we should recognize that they are for traffic enforcement and filing paperwork and arm them appropriately. These guys don’t need to accidentally find themselves holding a gun when they’re dealing with a black teen, they don’t need tools to engage when they begin fearing for their lives.

 

[Bateshorn 9898]

Kinda makes the whole “DEFUND THE POLICE!” Vs “Defund the over militarization of the police to better resource a wide array of social services to deescalate the cycle of violence and rebuild our fraying society” look a little different, huh. 

[B00M 6280]

7 hours ago, Muny_Tex said:

When did private ownership of AR’s become trendy/widespread?

The boom started in 2009 when people thought Obama would reimpose the assault weapon ban. It's been high ever since but spikes when people think bans are coming. 

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/30-years-of-gun-manufacturing-in-america/

[closetohumping 17392]

7 hours ago, Muny_Tex said:

When did private ownership of AR’s become trendy/widespread?

Was it after Sandy Hook, presumably as an “F you” to Obama? Did NRA/GOP shift their messaging at this point as well? I certainly don’t recall the original “cold dead hands” prop having a 30-round mag hanging out of it…

I joined Army in 2011 and didn’t even know what an M4 was before then; and my perception of an “assault weapon” was something like a gatling gun from old black and white movies…so it had to have been sometime after that time frame

I guess my point is, something this recently popular shouldn’t be that hard to eradicate. Say what you want about the futility of wholesale gun control overall, but I truly think “this time it’s different” with respect to major reforms relating to military weapons…the cop catastrophe is gonna be the last straw for millions of people; this shit is just indefensible and (finally!) is about to be politically untenable now as well. Writing is on the wall, it’s just sickening that these kids and their families had to bear the burden

In south Texas?  Pretty common 

[Js1 85095]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Sincere question, not trying to be snarky: did you guys ever consider closing the store for a week, and putting a sign in the window saying something to the effect of, "In light of recent events, we prefer not to profit on the misplaced, impetuous desire to stock up on even more weapons and ammo."

Maybe a handful of people see the sign and rethink their priorities. Probably not, but maybe.

Where are we as a country when a large segment of our population's initial reaction to these events is, "Shit, better stock up. THIS may be the school shooting that finally results in regulations with some actual teeth."?

And I know plenty of generally good and decent people who fit that bill.

Why do you hate capitalism? Never let a cri$i$ go to wa$te

[CooterBrown 17904]

who the fuck in their right mind expects armed teachers to do their job for them. 

The same morons who don’t trust those same teachers to select library books.

[B00M 6280]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Sincere question, not trying to be snarky: did you guys ever consider closing the store for a week, and putting a sign in the window saying something to the effect of, "In light of recent events, we prefer not to profit on the misplaced, impetuous desire to stock up on even more weapons and ammo."

Maybe a handful of people see the sign and rethink their priorities. Probably not, but maybe.

Where are we as a country when a large segment of our population's initial reaction to these events is, "Shit, better stock up. THIS may be the school shooting that finally results in regulations with some actual teeth."?

And I know plenty of generally good and decent people who fit that bill.

FOMO is human nature. If it makes you feel better, the people that buy after events like this pay extra for everything.

[crash_davis 23083]

so we pay all that goddamn money for body armor, guns, urban tanks, and shit just so those fuckheads can play Halloween dress up for a living? they are too big of pussies to actually do something when shit goes south? why the fuck did they dress up like badasses if they are just going to stand outside like scared pussies?

[hornmpa96 2598]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Sincere question, not trying to be snarky: did you guys ever consider closing the store for a week, and putting a sign in the window saying something to the effect of, "In light of recent events, we prefer not to profit on the misplaced, impetuous desire to stock up on even more weapons and ammo."

Maybe a handful of people see the sign and rethink their priorities. Probably not, but maybe.

Where are we as a country when a large segment of our population's initial reaction to these events is, "Shit, better stock up. THIS may be the school shooting that finally results in regulations with some actual teeth."?

And I know plenty of generally good and decent people who fit that bill.

Or alternatively not selling to people under 21?

[B00M 6280]

10 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

The same morons who don’t trust those same teachers to select library books.

 

Man, our fucking society. 

The family unit is the problem. Too many kids lack dads. Ban abortions!... These teachers are the devil teaching CRT and making my kids gay but they need to be armed to save my kids. We need more police with even better equipment. Everyone needs a gun.

The police have no obligation to defend us, they murder unarmed people, raid the wrong houses, then puss out on mass shooters. Our government is rapidly becoming christofascist, controlled by the money of oligarchs. Only the government and police should have guns!

[GW Hayduke 1952]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Kinda makes the whole “DEFUND THE POLICE!” Vs “Defund the over militarization of the police to better resource a wide array of social services to deescalate the cycle of violence and rebuild our fraying society” look a little different, huh. 

So how does this work in the context of Uvalde?

Police reform is normally directed at the idea of demilitarization, decreasing the duties of police (not having armed police give out traffic citations, etc.), shifting certain domestic type calls to unarmed metal health responders, decriminalizing drugs, doing away with "warrior" training, etc.  The end result of that would all normally decrease the numbers of armed first responders in a community and decrease the ability of a community to respond with a swat type force (increasing the response time for that level of force) - I imagine. Wouldn't we have to solve the issue with over saturation of firearms first - the firearms designed for mass murder?    

The evidence is clear IMO that more guns aren't going to prevent the next Uvalde - the MAGA buffalo shooter mowed down an armed security guard - the Uvalde guy apparently engaged and injured a couple police in the beginning - both of those events had a shooter with body armor and semi auto long rifles (I believe).  I don't believe more guns or a more militarized police would decrease the frequency or magnitude of mass shooting events - especially when compared to something like assault weapons bans combined with registration and licensing requirements, robust background checks, and mandatory waiting periods.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

9 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Brisk sales day. Not quite as busy as I expected - but steady.

Side note - we have a USP Expert in 9mm I’m in love with.

huh?

[Captainant 27442]

 

[Deej 76542]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

so we pay all that goddamn money for body armor, guns, urban tanks, and shit just so those fuckheads can play Halloween dress up for a living? they are too big of pussies to actually do something when shit goes south? why the fuck did they dress up like badasses if they are just going to stand outside like scared pussies?

They didn't just stand outside...they took down and detained parents who were attempting to rush in and save their children. Stop acting like they did nothing. 

[Js1 85095]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

huh?

Just bragging about profiting on a tragedy. Wholesale slaughter of children is good for business. 

[B00M 6280]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

huh?

https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/sport/sport/usp-expert/usp-expert/overview.html

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, Js1 said:

Just bragging about profiting on a tragedy. Wholesale slaughter of children is good for business. 

man i was really hoping that wasn't the situation. he must get giddy each time he gets news more kids have been slaughtered. 

BUSINESS. IS. GOOD.

[BurdineBandit 810]

16 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

 

The evidence is clear IMO that more guns aren't going to prevent the next Uvalde - the MAGA buffalo shooter mowed down an armed security guard - the Uvalde guy apparently engaged and injured a couple police in the beginning - both of those events had a shooter with body armor and semi auto long rifles (I believe).  I don't believe more guns or a more militarized police would decrease the frequency or magnitude of mass shooting events - especially when compared to something like assault weapons bans combined with registration and licensing requirements, robust background checks, and mandatory waiting periods.

There have now been a few conflicting statements on whether he engaged anybody outside. First there was a resource officer, then there was no resource officer, then I read last night there was a 12-minute confrontation before the shooter even entered the school (which kinda makes sense if he crashed his truck 100 feet away). I've also read that he had no plate in his vest, which would lead me to believe that they just couldn't shoot for shit and resorted to telling people around that he was iron man and their bullets were bouncing off him. 

[DDD Dad 14250]

9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

1) you say it’s a constitutional right as if there cannot be any restrictions on those. There can be and there are. 
2) the constitution can be changed. It was designed to be changed. It has been changed quite a bit.  I imagine there’s a lot of politicians that would never allow a constitutional amendment regarding the 2nd to ever get to a popular vote. 
 

anyway, the fact that it’s in the constitution in no way insulates it from being changed. 

It was changed by the Supreme Court in Heller. 

[closetohumping 17392]

10 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Brisk sales day. Not quite as busy as I expected - but steady.

Side note - we have a USP Expert in 9mm I’m in love with.

Should we be happy this spiked  your sales?   Not sure this is appropriate.  Read the room

 

 

if your post is satire my bad

Edited May 27, 2022 by closetohumping

[Js1 85095]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

It was changed by the Supreme Court in Heller. 

Oh just wait, another ruling is due any day now to further water down the ability to restrict firearms. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11806]

9 hours ago, Muny_Tex said:

When did private ownership of AR’s become trendy/widespread?

Was it after Sandy Hook, presumably as an “F you” to Obama? Did NRA/GOP shift their messaging at this point as well? I certainly don’t recall the original “cold dead hands” prop having a 30-round mag hanging out of it…

I joined Army in 2011 and didn’t even know what an M4 was before then; and my perception of an “assault weapon” was something like a gatling gun from old black and white movies…so it had to have been sometime after that time frame

I guess my point is, something this recently popular shouldn’t be that hard to eradicate. Say what you want about the futility of wholesale gun control overall, but I truly think “this time it’s different” with respect to major reforms relating to military weapons…the cop catastrophe is gonna be the last straw for millions of people; this shit is just indefensible and (finally!) is about to be politically untenable now as well. Writing is on the wall, it’s just sickening that these kids and their families had to bear the burden

Here's a graph.  Sandy Hook was in 2012.  Also a black man got re-elected in 2012 and was gonna take away all the guns, again.  So yeah, after that, you can see what happened.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Judge Roybeanbag

[B00M 6280]

30 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

I've also read that he had no plate in his vest, which would lead me to believe that they just couldn't shoot for shit and resorted to telling people around that he was iron man and their bullets were bouncing off him. 

100 feet is barely more than the distance between home and 1st base. Even the average morbidly obese American can cover that in under 10 seconds. Normal hooman can do it in 4-5.

If he was between the police and the school, I can envision scenarios where shooting at him would have meant potential strays entering classrooms. Perhaps his intent wasn't clear initially and once it was, it was too late?

Everything after he got inside the school was completely fucking bullshit though. Maybe we need to put million dollar bounties on mass shooters heads to help these militarized heroes work up the courage.

Edited May 27, 2022 by B00M

[ohchaucer 1443]

No. Just fucking no. We have a saying in the fire service, and it’s a saying that is used to drive decision making in the heat of battle. Risk a lot to save a lot. Risk a little to save a little. Risk nothing to save nothing. Risk a lot to save a lot means that no matter how dire the situation may appear, if there is any chance that my actions could lead to a positive outcome then I’m all in. All in means all in. I stood in front of my coworkers, my family, and the taxpayers that pay my salary and swore service before self. That’s what a civil servant is. There’s a handwritten letter in my locker at work. It has my wife’s name on it and it is sealed in an envelope. There are two people that know about that letter, and she isn’t one of them. In that letter is everything I hope she never has to read. But I wrote it because if the day ever comes where it’s either me or Joe Shit the ragman that gets to go home, then my last act on this earth is trying to make sure Ms. Joe Shit isn’t a widow. And I’m at peace with that. I come to work with the goal of going home to my family at the end of my shift, but with the understanding that everyone else goes home to theirs first.

What you’re condoning is cowardice and I’m not ok with it.

I’m way behind this morning so forgive the quote from last night but goddamn HH this post legitimately made my room a little dusty. My hat is off to you. With much gratitude for what you do.

Okay carry on.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

28 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

There have now been a few conflicting statements on whether he engaged anybody outside. First there was a resource officer, then there was no resource officer, then I read last night there was a 12-minute confrontation before the shooter even entered the school (which kinda makes sense if he crashed his truck 100 feet away). I've also read that he had no plate in his vest, which would lead me to believe that they just couldn't shoot for shit and resorted to telling people around that he was iron man and their bullets were bouncing off him. 

Even if your reporting is true, its rather clear IMO that 'good guys with guns' and a more militarized police force isn't going to decrease mass shootings - especially when compared to addressing the firearm saturation issue. 

[Ghost of LL 15477]

10 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Brisk sales day. Not quite as busy as I expected - but steady.

Side note - we have a USP Expert in 9mm I’m in love with.

It's clear that the American people want real, effective gun control.  Background checks have >80% approval in virtually every poll.  And assault-weapons ban gets about 3-1 approval.  But Congress won't act to accomplish that, because our democracy is broken.  Perhaps irretrievably so.  

So when your government doesn't work, there's only one option for the people to take: direct action.

On this issue, that means burning down gun stores.  Go in the middle of the night with a few molotov cocktails, and burn them the fuck down.  Fuck--with all the ammunition and shit inside, they'll go up with quite a lot of drama long before the fire fighters can do anything about it.  

And what?  Are you going to be morally troubled because Handcruiser just lost his business?  Fuck no.  Fuck him.  He profited off human misery for long enough.

And anyways, his losses are insured.  But that's really the point, isn't it?  You don't have to burn down every gun store.  You just have to burn down enough to make them uninsurable.

If we want change in this country, our course is clear.

[CooterBrown 17904]

man i was really hoping that wasn't the situation. he must get giddy each time he gets news more kids have been slaughtered. 
BUSINESS. IS. GOOD.

Maybe we need a law that gun sales are banned for 3 days following a mass murder. I guess that’s one way to eliminate guns since we average over 1 per day.

[po elvis 2070]

11 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Here's a graph.  Sandy Hook was in 2012.  Also a black man got re-elected in 2012 and was gonna take away all the guns, again.  So yeah, after that, you can see what happened.

There was a 30% rise in murder rate in this country from 2019 to 2020.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

11 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

No. Just fucking no. We have a saying in the fire service, and it’s a saying that is used to drive decision making in the heat of battle. Risk a lot to save a lot. Risk a little to save a little. Risk nothing to save nothing. Risk a lot to save a lot means that no matter how dire the situation may appear, if there is any chance that my actions could lead to a positive outcome then I’m all in. All in means all in. I stood in front of my coworkers, my family, and the taxpayers that pay my salary and swore service before self. That’s what a civil servant is. There’s a handwritten letter in my locker at work. It has my wife’s name on it and it is sealed in an envelope. There are two people that know about that letter, and she isn’t one of them. In that letter is everything I hope she never has to read. But I wrote it because if the day ever comes where it’s either me or Joe Shit the ragman that gets to go home, then my last act on this earth is trying to make sure Ms. Joe Shit isn’t a widow. And I’m at peace with that. I come to work with the goal of going home to my family at the end of my shift, but with the understanding that everyone else goes home to theirs first.

What you’re condoning is cowardice and I’m not ok with it.

I don't think anyone is condoning the cops' collective behavior. I at least am saying it's to be expected. I have 100% sincere respect for firemen rushing in to save a building. I've never done it and don't know what my reaction would be. But I do strongly suspect that I would be less likely to freeze and panic running into a fire than running into a building where someone was shooting me. This is not about firefighters vs cops, it's about a dangerous environment versus being specifically targeted. I suspect almost ANYONE is more likely to freeze or hold off on entry when faced with targeted gun fire. 

This is my main point - cops aren't the answer because, regardless of right vs wrong, they aren't likely to make the right decision because they're human and scared. This isn't being said as a defense of cops - I think they are almost exclusively power-hungry assholes who get off on abusing people. It's because of this that I have lowered expectations of their behavior when confronted with something like a school shooting.

[Homercles 10205]

Maybe we could change the state constitution to reflect modern ease of travel and not have them meet only on odd years?  So stupid that another hundred+ year old document contributes to complete lack of change.  

[Celery Man 20882]

13 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Here's a graph.  Sandy Hook was in 2012.  Also a black man got re-elected in 2012 and was gonna take away all the guns, again.  So yeah, after that, you can see what happened.

separate discussion probably but what's with the jump in auto deaths from 2019-2020?

59 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

So how does this work in the context of Uvalde?

Police reform is normally directed at the idea of demilitarization, decreasing the duties of police (not having armed police give out traffic citations, etc.), shifting certain domestic type calls to unarmed metal health responders, decriminalizing drugs, doing away with "warrior" training, etc.  The end result of that would all normally decrease the numbers of armed first responders in a community and decrease the ability of a community to respond with a swat type force (increasing the response time for that level of force) - I imagine. Wouldn't we have to solve the issue with over saturation of firearms first - the firearms designed for mass murder?    

The evidence is clear IMO that more guns aren't going to prevent the next Uvalde - the MAGA buffalo shooter mowed down an armed security guard - the Uvalde guy apparently engaged and injured a couple police in the beginning - both of those events had a shooter with body armor and semi auto long rifles (I believe).  I don't believe more guns or a more militarized police would decrease the frequency or magnitude of mass shooting events - especially when compared to something like assault weapons bans combined with registration and licensing requirements, robust background checks, and mandatory waiting periods.

7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Even if your reporting is true, its rather clear IMO that 'good guys with guns' and a more militarized police force isn't going to decrease mass shootings - especially when compared to addressing the firearm saturation issue. 

I'm not following your arguments particularly well I think, but I don't think anyone currently participating in this thread is arguing that more militarized police force is going to decrease mass shootings or that evidence supports the idea that there is an effective step we can take that isn't improved gun control. I may just be getting confused myself, but I think there's a distinction to be made between saying that "the armed police officers who represent 40% of the town's budget and have all sorts of GI Joe toys to play with should have done something instead of fucking around outside and preventing parents from saving their children" and saying "we need swarms of cops ready to go guns a blazing in situations like this in order to solve the problem".  Different things.

[B00M 6280]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Even if your reporting is true, its rather clear IMO that 'good guys with guns' ... isn't going to decrease mass shootings

There are many examples of "good guys with guns" minimizing or preventing mass shootings. They just barely make headlines and certainly don't dominate them. Our society effectively celebrates the successful mass shooter and barely acknowledges the ones that were stopped. No one cares when a gunmen opens fire and gets dropped after only murdering 1-2. That doesn't even make the stat book.

From the CDC:

Quote

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.

 

[Handcruser 2805]

It's clear that the American people want real, effective gun control.  Background checks have >80% approval in virtually every poll.  And assault-weapons ban gets about 3-1 approval.  But Congress won't act to accomplish that, because our democracy is broken.  Perhaps irretrievably so.  
So when your government doesn't work, there's only one option for the people to take: direct action.
On this issue, that means burning down gun stores.  Go in the middle of the night with a few molotov cocktails, and burn them the fuck down.  Fuck--with all the ammunition and shit inside, they'll go up with quite a lot of drama long before the fire fighters can do anything about it.  
And what?  Are you going to be morally troubled because Handcruiser just lost his business?  Fuck no.  Fuck him.  He profited off human misery for long enough.
And anyways, his losses are insured.  But that's really the point, isn't it?  You don't have to burn down every gun store.  You just have to burn down enough to make them uninsurable.
If we want change in this country, our course is clear.

This is a pretty lame and innacurate take. You can do better.

Mandated background checks on private sales through gun stores? In favor.

21+ to buy an AR? In favor.

They’re are other things I’m open to and in favor of.

[Goofyboy 3197]

Good guys with guns are good before the shooting starts. After it starts, they do not have to protect anyone, so they are useless until the shooting stops.

[B00M 6280]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's clear that the American people want real, effective gun control.  Background checks have >80% approval in virtually every poll.  And assault-weapons ban gets about 3-1 approval.  But Congress won't act to accomplish that, because our democracy is broken.  Perhaps irretrievably so.  

So when your government doesn't work, there's only one option for the people to take: direct action.

On this issue, that means burning down gun stores.  Go in the middle of the night with a few molotov cocktails, and burn them the fuck down.  Fuck--with all the ammunition and shit inside, they'll go up with quite a lot of drama long before the fire fighters can do anything about it.  

And what?  Are you going to be morally troubled because Handcruiser just lost his business?  Fuck no.  Fuck him.  He profited off human misery for long enough.

And anyways, his losses are insured.  But that's really the point, isn't it?  You don't have to burn down every gun store.  You just have to burn down enough to make them uninsurable.

If we want change in this country, our course is clear.

 

Wow, at least justify potentially burning people to death fighting for laws that might make a difference.

I don't think burning shit down will produce the results you want. The riots during covid produced about 10 million 1st time gun owners.

 

[Bogeywon 2518]

14 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

This is a pretty lame and innacurate take. You can do better.

Mandated background checks on private sales through gun stores? In favor.

21+ to buy an AR? In favor.

They’re are other things I’m open to and in favor of.

I can tell you I was not mature enough to own a fire arm at 21. I would say 30. Mental health evaluation back round checks 30 day waiting period ect ect. Also I’m don’t think anyone needs a AR -15 but I also know if someone wants to get into a school, lock a class room door they can do that with a hand gun so I don’t know what the answer is….

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

This is a pretty lame and innacurate take. You can do better.

Mandated background checks on private sales through gun stores? In favor.

21+ to buy an AR? In favor.

They’re are other things I’m open to and in favor of.

Asked over and over to various posters stating such things:

Are you voting for politicians that will pass such laws? If no, why not?

[Pato del Muerto 52338]

9 minutes ago, B00M said:

 

Wow, at least justify potentially burning people to death fighting for laws that might make a difference.

I don't think burning shit down will produce the results you want. The riots during covid produced about 10 million 1st time gun owners.

 

How do you parse out the people that bought guns for the first time in response to Covid riots from those that bought from the general uncertainty of things like food availability and unemployment leading to hungry, desperate people (the bucket I’m in, for the handgun and shotgun. Rifle was to be able to attempt to procure my own protein if it came to it.)?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

23 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

This is a pretty lame and innacurate take. You can do better.

Mandated background checks on private sales through gun stores? In favor.

21+ to buy an AR? In favor.

They’re are other things I’m open to and in favor of.

are you a member of the NRA?

[Brisketexan 104557]

25 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

This is my main point - cops aren't the answer because, regardless of right vs wrong, they aren't likely to make the right decision because they're human and scared.

Counterpoint: imagine the most average, pimple-faced 18 year old.  He can join the Marines, and become a Marine Private.  And the day after his training is completed, he can be ordered to go in and clear a structure of hostiles.  "Human and scared" is irrelevant -- it is an order.  Go in, clear the structure.   That is your job.

If we can expect and demand green Private Pimpleface to put his life on the line and engage the enemy in a structure until they are neutralized, we can goddamn well expect and demand the same from grown-ass adults with a badge, gun, vests, and all kinds of other fucking hardware.

If you are a cop and you are unwilling to engage an active shooter, even if you think you are outgunned or outmatched, or you are "human and scared," turn in your fucking badge.  Because you are just an impediment to those who WOULD go in to save lives, like the kids' parents.  Quit, and GTFO of the way.

19 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

This is a pretty lame and innacurate take. You can do better.

Mandated background checks on private sales through gun stores? In favor.

21+ to buy an AR? In favor.

They’re are other things I’m open to and in favor of.

Yet none of them will happen.  Because a single party is a complete and total captive of a fringe movement.  So I'm long past giving a shit what people who continue to support them say "but I would support X or Y."  If you won't take the actual ACTION to make sure those things happen -- and the ONLY action that will do so is to kick every GQP politician out of office -- then your words mean NOTHING.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Counterpoint: imagine the most average, pimple-faced 18 year old.  He can join the Marines, and become a Marine Private.  And the day after his training is completed, he can be ordered to go in and clear a structure of hostiles.  "Human and scared" is irrelevant -- it is an order.  Go in, clear the structure.   That is your job.

If we can expect and demand green Private Pimpleface to put his life on the line and engage the enemy in a structure until they are neutralized, we can goddamn well expect and demand the same from grown-ass adults with a badge, gun, vests, and all kinds of other fucking hardware.

Do you want cops to go through marine training? Because I sure as hell don't want MORE militarization of police.

[B00M 6280]

11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How do you parse out the people that bought guns for the first time in response to Covid riots from those that bought from the general uncertainty of things like food availability and unemployment leading to hungry, desperate people (the bucket I’m in, for the handgun and shotgun. Rifle was to be able to attempt to procure my own protein if it came to it.)?

Fair question and point taken. There's no way to know what percentage of the 10M+ new owners bought because of safety concerns related to riots. But your reasons fall into a similar bucket don't they? That when the shit is hitting the fan, the only person that will protect you is you. At this point, very few people actually trust the police to do anything but write a report.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by B00M