[Discussion] Mass Shooting at Uvalde Elementary School

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

I was wondering more about local governments refusing to return guns in the case of it expiring, but both are a problem. This does lead to another issue, however. Local or state governments are under no obligation to enforce federal laws (Printz vs. The United States, iirc). While this works in favor of Marijuana legalization and immigration sanctuary cities (both of which I support), it likely presents an obstacle to federal red flag laws that is difficult to overcome without other less than desirable side effects.

[Dahobbs 17420]

31 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Because look at your first paragraph, then ask how much of one side feels about firearms. Sheila Jackson Lee and Feinstein have been telling us for years how the left views our rights to the 2nd.  Should we not take them at their word?  They mirror tbones thoughts above.  Or is it different in this case because…reasons?

Other rights are legimately in danger because they are founded upon the same basis as the right established in Roe v. Wade. If you remove that legal foundation, it isn't difficult to see that the other rights go with it. That isn't a slippery slope in the fallacious sense, but rather the predictable and logical conclusion of rejecting the reasoning of Roe v. Wade.

You don't have to worry about the same thing happening with gun ownership because no one is arguing that the Second Amendment itself is invalid. The argument has primarily been the amount of regulation of gun ownership that the Second Amendment allows. One group has taken the position that the answer is essentially none. This is, as pointed out previously, completely at odds with how every other right is treated under the Constitution. And even though there are those that question the reasoning of Heller, unlike Roe v. Wade, there are enough Justices on the Supreme Court that agree with Heller's outcome to prevent it from being overturned. And, even the justices that may disagree with the outcome at least respect our tradition of precedent enough not to overturn it. I can't say that for the justices who are willing to throw away decades of established precedent and rights set out in Roe. 

That said, I'll totally campaign to add another amendment to the Constitution that clearly limits the contours of the Second. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

11 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I was wondering more about local governments refusing to return guns in the case of it expiring, but both are a problem. This does lead to another issue, however. Local or state governments are under no obligation to enforce federal laws (Printz vs. The United States, iirc). While this works in favor of Marijuana legalization and immigration sanctuary cities (both of which I support), it likely presents an obstacle to federal red flag laws that is difficult to overcome without other less than desirable side effects.

Eh. (1) Red flag laws aren't the most important part of gun reform anyway because their enforcement is difficult, (2) You can always tie enforcement to the money carrot if you really want states on board, and (3) federal enforcement is still an option and likely doable given the limited times red flag laws would actually be invoked anyway.  

[tbone_ 14020]

Honest question: can a person just walk into a store somewhere and buy dynamite?

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

Fuck all this holding a hearing to see if you get your guns taken away bullshit. Make someone go to a hearing to prove they should be able to own a gun before they can buy one. 

[UnivTex34 1763]

44 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Stop bitching about rep you pussy.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Go fuck yourself you disingenuous, lying, sack of human shit.

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Honest question: can a person just walk into a store somewhere and buy dynamite?

No, well you can tannerite.
 

But you can order explosives rather easily for construction works.  Of course they don’t give it directly to you, it comes with a tech and there are restrictions for its travel.  I used to blow up a lot of shit with these guys.  

http://demex.us
 

 

[tbone_ 14020]

No, well you can tannerite.
 
But you can order explosives rather easily for construction works.  Of course they don’t give it directly to you, it comes with a tech and there are restrictions for its travel.  I used to blow up a lot of shit with these guys.  
http://demex.us
 
 

And don’t you have to have a permit to use it?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

You can buy many things that would commonly be considered explosives over the counter.

[tbone_ 14020]

You can buy many things that would commonly be considered explosives over the counter.

Not the question

[fattyflattie 4636]

4 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

And don’t you have to have a permit to use it?

Tannerite, no.   
 

Dynamite, yes.  But while it has restrictions on shipping and whatnot, they aren’t that tight.  It’s really eye opening, to be honest. 

[aggie08 21380]

51 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Because look at your first paragraph, then ask how much of one side feels about firearms. Sheila Jackson Lee and Feinstein have been telling us for years how the left views our rights to the 2nd.  Should we not take them at their word?  They mirror tbones thoughts above.  Or is it different in this case because…reasons?

Abolishing Roe v. Wade is the culmination of a decades long plan to stack the courts with hard right judges who would essentially be at the beck and call of Evangelist leaders within the GOP, one culture war to the next. This was always the end goal. It's closer to their Manifest Destiny than it is to a true slippery slope.

So tell me: what machinations do the Democrats have--or are they plotting to have--that are a risk to "take all of your guns" when they can't even pass the most basic gun legislation?

Using the extremes in the gun advocacy group as an excuse to continue to do nothing is absolute fucking bullshit, and you know this.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

3 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Not the question

If the question is do you need a permit, the answer is no. You can buy both smokeless powder and black powder  if you can find them over the counter without any sort of permit. You can buy tannerite without a permit. Dynamite, I think requires a permit.

[Born to Run 6524]

No, well you can tannerite.
 
But you can order explosives rather easily for construction works.  Of course they don’t give it directly to you, it comes with a tech and there are restrictions for its travel.  I used to blow up a lot of shit with these guys.  
http://demex.us
 
 

You blew up my Snapper spot didn't you.

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

No, well you can tannerite.
 
But you can order explosives rather easily for construction works.  Of course they don’t give it directly to you, it comes with a tech and there are restrictions for its travel.  I used to blow up a lot of shit with these guys.  
http://demex.us
 
 

You blew up my Snapper spot didn't you.

Literally >100 of them   Mine too.  Don’t even get me started on how the state/feds fucked us there (reef in place/reef farms) vs steel lobby. 

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

So it seems like these school shootings are mostly carried out by young males aged 18-21.

I don’t think these kids are choosing schools because they are “soft targets” I think they choose them bc they are still kids, and life in a school is pretty much all they’ve experienced. So that’s where they place their rage.

And it seems like there is some pretty good science under the claim that a male’s brain isn’t fully developed until 25 or so, in particular the parts that would govern instincts to do dangerous stupid things.

When I think about these things together I think it becomes obvious that some weapons should not be available for a person to purchase until they are older than 18, with the easiest example being assault rifles.

I think we need to find some baby steps so one side doesn’t accuse the other of some straw man motivation like “they wanna take all our guns” or “ they don’t care about these kids they just want their guns”

Reasonable background checks makes sense, though I get the fear that some would have about who gets to control who fails a background check, so some precaution should be taken there.

[Born to Run 6524]

Literally >100 of them   Mine too.  Don’t even get me started on how the state/feds fucked us there (reef in place/reef farms) vs steel lobby. 

Bastard!

Yeah we rolled up to the rig being loaded on a barge and miles of dead fish.

[cmontexas 3242]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Because you're introducing fear, uncertainty, and doubt into gun regulation either by referencing a thing that doesn't exist or by misunderstanding the fundamental nature of our legal system. 

That is the playbook. They will convince everybody on facebook that white Christians are the first on the list

[Chopper 17126]

3 hours ago, Da Fino said:

How common are straw sales? I've always assumed that only a fraction get stopped. 

Straw sales are the singular economic success of the republican party. US weapons manufacturers and gun stores supply roughly 80% of the weapons to the Mexican cartels and as a favor in return they turn Mexico into a narco-terror state; induce migration to flow to the US which provides cheap labor to exploit, and a constant and notorious bogeyman for republican political purposes; and provides US corporations willing to put up with the breakdown of Mexican society with a convenient and profitable location to manufacture items on the cheap for export into the US. 

My proposed red flag law is that if you whine about needing a semi automatic rifle you're a red flag and you can choose between being exported to Yemen or receiving a bullet in the head.  /s kinda

Edited June 3, 2022 by Chopper

[Chopper 17126]

1234

Edited June 3, 2022 by Chopper

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

As for your second question about penalties for local governments who don't follow through with the law, I don't think there are, because several rural sheriffs in Colorado say they will refuse to enforce it.  I am not aware of a case where they have been brought to task for that.

Said sheriffs should be held accountable and charged if guns are used against someone then. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, UnivTex34 said:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Go fuck yourself you disingenuous, lying, sack of human shit.

Negs me first.  I neg back but do not cry like a bitch about getting neg repped.  Then bitches about my neg back.  You are a whiny little bitch.

[Telegraph_it 3353]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Damn. That is tough to read. WTF. It just makes me sick. 

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Holy shit @4th and 5

[InkaUtexas 25426]

20 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Damn. That is tough to read. WTF. It just makes me sick. 

Criminal negligence. Why the fuck does he not have a radio in his vehicle?

[Eskimohorn 5610]

Other rights are legimately in danger because they are founded upon the same basis as the right established in Roe v. Wade. If you remove that legal foundation, it isn't difficult to see that the other rights go with it. That isn't a slippery slope in the fallacious sense, but rather the predictable and logical conclusion of rejecting the reasoning of Roe v. Wade.
You don't have to worry about the same thing happening with gun ownership because no one is arguing that the Second Amendment itself is invalid. The argument has primarily been the amount of regulation of gun ownership that the Second Amendment allows. One group has taken the position that the answer is essentially none. This is, as pointed out previously, completely at odds with how every other right is treated under the Constitution. And even though there are those that question the reasoning of Heller, unlike Roe v. Wade, there are enough Justices on the Supreme Court that agree with Heller's outcome to prevent it from being overturned. And, even the justices that may disagree with the outcome at least respect our tradition of precedent enough not to overturn it. I can't say that for the justices who are willing to throw away decades of established precedent and rights set out in Roe. 
That said, I'll totally campaign to add another amendment to the Constitution that clearly limits the contours of the Second. 

That new amendment will be misinterpreted as well, especially if it gets in the way of companies making money. The 2nd amendment is fine. We now allow individuals to own guns and cannons without the obligation of duty to defend and be accountable to the community.

[Chopper 17126]

Quote

After more than an hour, the ad hoc group of officers who had arrived ready to attack the gunman was growing impatient, and decided to move in.

One of the members — equipped with an ear piece and small microphone — quietly announced over the radio that the group was preparing to go into the classrooms. At that point, a voice responded, telling them not to breach the doors.

They ignored the directive.

Quote

“I think they’re unfair to accuse anybody until we know all the facts,” said Uvalde County’s top executive, Bill Mitchell. “We have agencies coming out and saying there were mistakes. How do we know, days after, what mistakes?”

Bill Mitchell has definitely taken Avoidance of Responsibility 101. I wonder who his instructor was.

[wildcat09 29187]

15 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Criminal negligence. Why the fuck does he not have a radio in his vehicle?

But there's no prior case law that clearly establishes that a police officer failing to carry a radio when responding to a school shooting being carried out at an elementary school after 10 am in a town with a population under 250,000 people violated a victim's rights, so it would be wrong to not give him legal immunity for effectively acting as the shooter's accomplice.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

44 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Straw sales are the singular economic success of the republican party. US weapons manufacturers and gun stores supply roughly 80% of the weapons to the Mexican cartels and as a favor in return they turn Mexico into a narco-terror state; induce migration to flow to the US which provides cheap labor to exploit, and a constant and notorious bogeyman for republican political purposes; and provides US corporations willing to put up with the breakdown of Mexican society with a convenient and profitable location to manufacture items on the cheap for export into the US. 

My proposed red flag law is that if you whine about needing a semi automatic rifle you're a red flag and you can choose between being exported to Yemen or receiving a bullet in the head.  /s kinda

Straw purchases are already illegal and subject to enforcement by executive agencies under the control of the sitting president. I'm not sure how you can lay the blame solely on Republicans. It's long been the case that if you lie on a 4473 that you have a less than one percent chance of even being investigated, no matter which party is in charge. 

[UnivTex34 1763]

39 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Negs me first.  I neg back but do not cry like a bitch about getting neg repped.  Then bitches about my neg back.  You are a whiny little bitch.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

neg spree vs one neg of your lying shit.

 

I have 60 negs total, I think 50 are from you and your sprees. But it’s the crazies in the CR who go on the negging sprees. I though neg bombing was against the rules? Guess they are for me and not for the.
 

keeping crying you oxygen thief.

 

biggest bitch on the board you are.

 

 

[Chopper 17126]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not sure how you can lay the blame solely on Republicans.

Hey maybe I'm wrong but from what I can tell, only one political party has used every bit of power within their arsenal to make sure weapons of use to the Mexican cartels are for sale in the USA.

[Armybrat 40678]

I see this thread has gone exactly the way I thought it would.

[Armybrat 40678]

Carry on.

[Chopper 17126]

I want to offer a correction: above I referenced those who say they need a AR-15 to kill foxes. Actually what Ken Buck of Colorado said is Americans need AR15s to kill raccoons.

I know plenty of people with chickens. None have an AR-15 so I have no idea what this lunatic is talking about.

 

[TexasEd 8062]

video of a mom that ran past police after they tried to cuff her and got her two kids out of the school while shots were being fired and cops were hiding from the gunman.

 

[aggie08 21380]

1 hour ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

I think we need to find some baby steps so one side doesn’t accuse the other of some straw man motivation like “they wanna take all our guns” or “ they don’t care about these kids they just want their guns”

While I agree in principle, what evidence do we have that the latter isn't true, at least to an extent? They care, obviously. They're not heartless. But they've pretty clearly shown that they don't care enough--or that they care about other things more--to demand that their preferred elected leaders do more, and then back up that resolve with their vote if they don't listen. One side is able to completely stonewall any gun control discussion because their voters either support or enable them to.

Right now, only one side is representing the extremes of the "take all the guns" vs. "nothing can infringe on my right to own guns" debate. Democrats would trip over themselves* to sign the most modest of proposals--the baby steps that you talk about--if a handful of their counterparts were willing to cross the aisle. But they're not.

*largely self-serving, so they could at least have something to point out to their constituents as progress.

[Armybrat 40678]

Sorry to butt in, but I think this lady should be appointed Chief of the Uvalde police department. She’s got bigger balls than all their current personnel…..

 

[Armybrat 40678]

Hey, TexasEd beat me to it by seconds!

[Mole 4318]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Tannerite, no.   
 

Dynamite, yes.  But while it has restrictions on shipping and whatnot, they aren’t that tight.  It’s really eye opening, to be honest. 

Not surprising to me. Them Duke boys weren’t allowed to possess guns, but they always seemed to have plenty of arrows and dynamite at the ready.

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

They care, obviously. They're not heartless.

Show your work.

[Goredho 17302]

2 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Assuming that is accurate, Pete Arredondo needs to smoke the pipe of his service revolver.  Also, what the fuck is a "school district police chief" and how are they different than the a town's chief of police?  Does a town the size of Uvalde have both a police department and a school district police department?  Two police organizations with different jurisdictions and shit? 

Also, fucking A good on these guys:

The officers who finally breached the locked classrooms with a janitor’s key were not a formal tactical unit, according to a person briefed on the response. The officers, including specially trained Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a sheriff’s deputy, formed an ad hoc group on their own and gathered in the hallway outside the classroom, a tense space where they said there appeared to be no chain of command.

They were done waiting for permission, one of them said, according to the person, before they moved toward the classroom where the gunman waited. They continued even after one of them heard a command crackling in his ear piece: Do not breach.

They entered the room and killed the gunman.

 

[CooterBrown 17875]

I see this thread has gone exactly the way I thought it would.

Yep. Most of us value children more than inanimate objects.

Glad to see you erection from seeing the killer’s weapons finally subsided enough to post.

[Chopper 17126]

What a story. She's "just a farm worker", yet she's smarter and has more guts than every LEO, City or County official in Uvalde that day. Angeli Gomez, we speak your name.

edit - that cbs news story is definitely worth watching.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Chopper

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Assuming that is accurate, Pete Arredondo needs to smoke the pipe of his service revolver.  Also, what the fuck is a "school district police chief" and how are they different than the a town's chief of police?  Does a town the size of Uvalde have both a police department and a school district police department?  Two police organizations with different jurisdictions and shit? 

Also, fucking A good on these guys:

The officers who finally breached the locked classrooms with a janitor’s key were not a formal tactical unit, according to a person briefed on the response. The officers, including specially trained Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a sheriff’s deputy, formed an ad hoc group on their own and gathered in the hallway outside the classroom, a tense space where they said there appeared to be no chain of command.

They were done waiting for permission, one of them said, according to the person, before they moved toward the classroom where the gunman waited. They continued even after one of them heard a command crackling in his ear piece: Do not breach.

They entered the room and killed the gunman.

 

Should have been done 5 minutes in at the latest. The correct response is they go in as they arrive- they can group up if they arrive simultaneously. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

36 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Wahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

neg spree vs one neg of your lying shit.

 

I have 60 negs total, I think 50 are from you and your sprees. But it’s the crazies in the CR who go on the negging sprees. I though neg bombing was against the rules? Guess they are for me and not for the.
 

keeping crying you oxygen thief.

 

biggest bitch on the board you are.

 

 

Still bitching about neg reps.

[UnivTex34 1763]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Still bitching about neg reps.

WAHHHHHHHHHH

 

Cunt keeps showing himself as a cunt.

 

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

WAHHHHHHHHHH

 

Cunt keeps showing himself as a cunt.

 

 

I hope you can get over the neg reps and have a nice and blessed weekend.

[Goredho 17302]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Should have been done 5 minutes in at the latest. The correct response is they go in as they arrive- they can group up if they arrive simultaneously. 

I still don't get the fucking Uvalde PD and the Uvalde School District PD.  Two bureaucratic orgs, one beholden to the city, the other the school district, with resources split between them and no clear person in charge or chain of command.  How the hell was that ever going to not be some form of cluster fuck at the most dire time?

[UnivTex34 1763]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I hope you can get over the neg reps and have a nice and blessed weekend.

Lol, I’m over, I just enjoy calling out little bitch babies like yourself. I’ll see you on your next spree!